SteveB wrote:
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States. Reporting that
all oil platforms are being evacuated in the Gulf of Mexico. Saying
that the RNC should postpone their convention because of the
hurricane.

In the first case, oil platforms are NEVER totally evacuated during
ANY hurricane. I know. I've been through three hurricanes on
platforms. I worked in the Gulf of Mexico for eight years on rigs,
barges and boats. When was the last time you heard of a hurricane
blowing over a oil platform? I don't believe it can be done, as they
are engineered for waves forty feet higher than a cat 5 storm. Lots
of them keep on producing, and some even keep on drilling, shutting
down only when the winds reach a certain level, then resuming
drilling when they subside. It is almost an impossibility to leave a
platform totally abandoned and unattended, as someone has to be there
to actuate safety equipment in certain scenarios. In many cases
(been there, done that) personnel are trapped on the platforms
because they miss the escape window. They can't fly out because
choppers are grounded, and swinging over by manropes is Russian
roulette.

This only shows the ignorance of the press and the yellow dog
journalism of the sensationalism rags they have become. And the
stupidity of the American public as to life in the real world.

And please, if anyone can, explain to me how the delaying of the
Republican convention, which is IIRC several miles away from the
hurricane's path, would help anything. Oh, it could be called a
humanitarian deed, since "normal humanitarians" would never conceive
having a convention with a hurricane going on. Well, let's take it
to the next level, and just wait until the weather is clear ALL OVER
THE ****ING WORLD so we can show that the Republicans are as kind and
caring as the Democrats profess to be. Would Barry, Hillary, Billary,
and the gang have canceled theirs? Only if it were in New Orleans or
Houston.

Oh, well, the Repubics are getting the last laugh, picking up a HUGE
(sorry I can't put it in larger type font, and make HUGE red and
bold) voter block of women voters.

Barry, bend over, put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass
goodbye back home. I never believed in my lifetime I would see
anyone stupider than Jimmy Carter. Never say never.

McCain could have picked a real personality like Hutchinson and gotten
votes. Palin won't get him anything he didn't already have. Well, he'll be
seriously laughed at now by both parties rather than just one.

He apparently hit Hooters on his speed dial by mistake or maybe that was
where he met with the "commitee" he consulted to finalize his selection. I
don't know which it was but he's clearly lost any genuine desire to win.
There is a point where being a "Maverick" crosses over into K00Kd0m and
McCain blew right by it with his selection.

You know, had bush not done such a crappy job Obama probably would have
waited to run.
Hillary is polarizing enough that a Republican would have had a genuine
chance this time around.

I'll be laughing at you when the arrests and trails get into full swing
buddy.
A Democratic Senate and Democratic House with a Democrat in the WH?
Joe Biden is going to bring on some serious payback and he's just the guy to
do it.

There won't be a Republican lawyer out of work for a decade.
All fair and square.
--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.

gigantic rant about all sorts of stuff snipped

you cannot honestly turn the lack of knowlege of the press on a particular
subject into a politcal statement like you did. You can point out they are
wrong, and you can have your political opinions, but you have to recognize
that reporters do not know everything, and with the cutbacks, they know less
and less and can spend very little time in research. Almost anyone who
knows a lot about some subject will find errors in reporting on that
subject - that is not a political thing, that is what we get with the
monopilzation of our press and the loss of critical thinking skills by
having our schools pander to the lowest common denominator.

there are lots of smart folks on this NG, with a wide variety of opinions -
how about showing neural activity not just glandular reactions


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I ****ing give up on the press in the United States. Reporting that all oil
platforms are being evacuated in the Gulf of Mexico. Saying that the RNC
should postpone their convention because of the hurricane.

In the first case, oil platforms are NEVER totally evacuated during ANY
hurricane. I know. I've been through three hurricanes on platforms. I
worked in the Gulf of Mexico for eight years on rigs, barges and boats.
When was the last time you heard of a hurricane blowing over a oil platform?
I don't believe it can be done, as they are engineered for waves forty feet
higher than a cat 5 storm. Lots of them keep on producing, and some even
keep on drilling, shutting down only when the winds reach a certain level,
then resuming drilling when they subside. It is almost an impossibility to
leave a platform totally abandoned and unattended, as someone has to be
there to actuate safety equipment in certain scenarios. In many cases (been
there, done that) personnel are trapped on the platforms because they miss
the escape window. They can't fly out because choppers are grounded, and
swinging over by manropes is Russian roulette.

This only shows the ignorance of the press and the yellow dog journalism of
the sensationalism rags they have become. And the stupidity of the American
public as to life in the real world.

And please, if anyone can, explain to me how the delaying of the Republican
convention, which is IIRC several miles away from the hurricane's path,
would help anything. Oh, it could be called a humanitarian deed, since
"normal humanitarians" would never conceive having a convention with a
hurricane going on. Well, let's take it to the next level, and just wait
until the weather is clear ALL OVER THE ****ING WORLD so we can show that
the Republicans are as kind and caring as the Democrats profess to be.
Would Barry, Hillary, Billary, and the gang have canceled theirs? Only if
it were in New Orleans or Houston.

Oh, well, the Repubics are getting the last laugh, picking up a HUGE (sorry
I can't put it in larger type font, and make HUGE red and bold) voter block
of women voters.

Barry, bend over, put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye
back home. I never believed in my lifetime I would see anyone stupider than
Jimmy Carter. Never say never.

Steve

--
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere
critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly,
not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."
Theodore Roosevelt 1891

On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:50:17 -0700, "William Noble"
wrote:


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.

gigantic rant about all sorts of stuff snipped

you cannot honestly turn the lack of knowlege of the press on a particular
subject into a politcal statement like you did. You can point out they are
wrong, and you can have your political opinions, but you have to recognize
that reporters do not know everything, and with the cutbacks, they know less
and less and can spend very little time in research. Almost anyone who
knows a lot about some subject will find errors in reporting on that
subject - that is not a political thing, that is what we get with the
monopilzation of our press and the loss of critical thinking skills by
having our schools pander to the lowest common denominator.

And you end up with statements like my favourite "Police seized a 22
gauge rifle......"
there are lots of smart folks on this NG, with a wide variety of opinions -
how about showing neural activity not just glandular reactions


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Yep - and many of the offshore wells are remote control already.
The oil company man in Houston dials up by space and verifies the flow,
open the valve a but and measure temperature...... all from his desk in Houston
and the well in South East Asia.

The wells in the gulf are a walk in the park by any means to those in Asia.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


SteveB wrote:
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States. Reporting that all oil
platforms are being evacuated in the Gulf of Mexico. Saying that the RNC
should postpone their convention because of the hurricane.

In the first case, oil platforms are NEVER totally evacuated during ANY
hurricane. I know. I've been through three hurricanes on platforms. I
worked in the Gulf of Mexico for eight years on rigs, barges and boats.
When was the last time you heard of a hurricane blowing over a oil platform?
I don't believe it can be done, as they are engineered for waves forty feet
higher than a cat 5 storm. Lots of them keep on producing, and some even
keep on drilling, shutting down only when the winds reach a certain level,
then resuming drilling when they subside. It is almost an impossibility to
leave a platform totally abandoned and unattended, as someone has to be
there to actuate safety equipment in certain scenarios. In many cases (been
there, done that) personnel are trapped on the platforms because they miss
the escape window. They can't fly out because choppers are grounded, and
swinging over by manropes is Russian roulette.

This only shows the ignorance of the press and the yellow dog journalism of
the sensationalism rags they have become. And the stupidity of the American
public as to life in the real world.

And please, if anyone can, explain to me how the delaying of the Republican
convention, which is IIRC several miles away from the hurricane's path,
would help anything. Oh, it could be called a humanitarian deed, since
"normal humanitarians" would never conceive having a convention with a
hurricane going on. Well, let's take it to the next level, and just wait
until the weather is clear ALL OVER THE ****ING WORLD so we can show that
the Republicans are as kind and caring as the Democrats profess to be.
Would Barry, Hillary, Billary, and the gang have canceled theirs? Only if
it were in New Orleans or Houston.

Oh, well, the Repubics are getting the last laugh, picking up a HUGE (sorry
I can't put it in larger type font, and make HUGE red and bold) voter block
of women voters.

Barry, bend over, put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye
back home. I never believed in my lifetime I would see anyone stupider than
Jimmy Carter. Never say never.

Steve



----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine exploded with black powder.

Bob Swinney
"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:50:17 -0700, "William Noble"
wrote:


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.

gigantic rant about all sorts of stuff snipped

you cannot honestly turn the lack of knowlege of the press on a particular
subject into a politcal statement like you did. You can point out they are
wrong, and you can have your political opinions, but you have to recognize
that reporters do not know everything, and with the cutbacks, they know less
and less and can spend very little time in research. Almost anyone who
knows a lot about some subject will find errors in reporting on that
subject - that is not a political thing, that is what we get with the
monopilzation of our press and the loss of critical thinking skills by
having our schools pander to the lowest common denominator.

And you end up with statements like my favourite "Police seized a 22
gauge rifle......"
there are lots of smart folks on this NG, with a wide variety of opinions -
how about showing neural activity not just glandular reactions


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States. Reporting that all
oil platforms are being evacuated in the Gulf of Mexico. Saying that the
RNC should postpone their convention because of the hurricane.

What parts of "the press" are you reading, Steve? Virtually all of the
articles on the subject are saying it's the *RNC* that's considering
postponement. Tucker Bounds (a "McCain spokesman") is the one who suggested
that McCain is "monitoring the situation" and is considering the possibility
of postponement. Bush's staff also is watching to see if Bush should stay
home because of the storm.

The story apparently got started when Fox News reported on a statement by
Jill Hazelbaker (McCain's communications director and notorious New Jersey
political sock puppet) that McCain was considering postponement. Bounds then
confirmed it.

So the story the press is reporting came from the RNC itself. I didn't see
anything suggesting that the press is telling the RNC that they "should"
postpone it.

As for the rest of your post, about evacuation, you need to read a better
class of newspapers. The New York Times reported the story accurately,
including the fact that oil prices actually dropped today.

--
Ed Huntress

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine exploded
with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob. Those
16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They couldn't take the
pressure of anything else. That's why old photos of the New Jersey, the
Ohio, and so on show those huge blasts of smoke.

--
Ed Huntress


Bob Swinney
"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:50:17 -0700, "William Noble"
wrote:


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.

gigantic rant about all sorts of stuff snipped

you cannot honestly turn the lack of knowlege of the press on a particular
subject into a politcal statement like you did. You can point out they
are
wrong, and you can have your political opinions, but you have to recognize
that reporters do not know everything, and with the cutbacks, they know
less
and less and can spend very little time in research. Almost anyone who
knows a lot about some subject will find errors in reporting on that
subject - that is not a political thing, that is what we get with the
monopilzation of our press and the loss of critical thinking skills by
having our schools pander to the lowest common denominator.

And you end up with statements like my favourite "Police seized a 22
gauge rifle......"
there are lots of smart folks on this NG, with a wide variety of
opinions -
how about showing neural activity not just glandular reactions


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine exploded
with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob. Those
16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They couldn't take
the pressure of anything else. That's why old photos of the New Jersey,
the Ohio...

That should be "Iowa," not Ohio.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine
exploded with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob.
Those 16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They
couldn't take the pressure of anything else. That's why old photos
of the New Jersey, the Ohio...

That should be "Iowa," not Ohio.

Thank God Ed.
You had me wondering when out ballistic missile submarine fleet had switched
over to black powder.
I had heard they were moving to whale oil and put a little money on it G


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine
exploded with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob.
Those 16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They
couldn't take the pressure of anything else. That's why old photos
of the New Jersey, the Ohio...

That should be "Iowa," not Ohio.

Thank God Ed.
You had me wondering when out ballistic missile submarine fleet had
switched
over to black powder.
I had heard they were moving to whale oil and put a little money on it G

I think the battleship Ohio was decommissioned sometime around WWI. No doubt
it charged its big guns with black powder, but I think the example is not
very useful. g

I'll bet she was lubed with whale oil, too...

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in
message ...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine
exploded with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob.
Those 16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They
couldn't take the pressure of anything else. That's why old photos
of the New Jersey, the Ohio...

That should be "Iowa," not Ohio.

Thank God Ed.
You had me wondering when out ballistic missile submarine fleet had
switched
over to black powder.
I had heard they were moving to whale oil and put a little money on
it G

I think the battleship Ohio was decommissioned sometime around WWI.
No doubt it charged its big guns with black powder, but I think the
example is not very useful. g

I'll bet she was lubed with whale oil, too...

LOL
The Ohio class submarines are inservice today Ed.
Individually, they carry more ordinance than the US lit of in the last
century. 84 inch ICBM's to be precise.
I believe there are twelve of them on active war patrol at any one time and
yeah, we still do that.


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in
message ...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine
exploded with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob.
Those 16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They
couldn't take the pressure of anything else. That's why old photos
of the New Jersey, the Ohio...

That should be "Iowa," not Ohio.

Thank God Ed.
You had me wondering when out ballistic missile submarine fleet had
switched
over to black powder.
I had heard they were moving to whale oil and put a little money on
it G

I think the battleship Ohio was decommissioned sometime around WWI.
No doubt it charged its big guns with black powder, but I think the
example is not very useful. g

I'll bet she was lubed with whale oil, too...

LOL
The Ohio class submarines are inservice today Ed.
Individually, they carry more ordinance than the US lit of in the last
century. 84 inch ICBM's to be precise.
I believe there are twelve of them on active war patrol at any one time
and
yeah, we still do that.

I wonder if any of them are in the Black Sea at this moment?

--
Ed Huntress

On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

I wonder if any of them are in the Black Sea at this moment?

--
Ed Huntress

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range. They do not need to be in
the Black Sea. They would be effective if they were in the Delaware
river in New Jersey.

Dan

On Aug 29, 7:39 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message

...

My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine exploded
with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob. Those
16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They couldn't take the
pressure of anything else. That's why old photos of the New Jersey, the
Ohio, and so on show those huge blasts of smoke.

--
Ed Huntress

You need to check your facts a bit closer on this. Battleships did
carry black powder, but the 16 inch guns use mostly smokeless powder.

Dan

"John R. Carroll" wrote

I'll be laughing at you when the arrests and trails get into full swing
buddy.

You have no idea of what I think about what Obama is having the JD do
already!

Steve

"John R. Carroll" wrote

I'll be laughing at you when the arrests and trails get into full swing
buddy.

They've started already. God help us all.

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Article...3-318EE490CC79

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

I wonder if any of them are in the Black Sea at this moment?

--
Ed Huntress

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range. They do not need to be in
the Black Sea. They would be effective if they were in the Delaware
river in New Jersey.

Too shallow. g

--
Ed Huntress

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 7:39 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message

...

My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine
exploded
with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob. Those
16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They couldn't take
the
pressure of anything else. That's why old photos of the New Jersey, the
Ohio, and so on show those huge blasts of smoke.

--
Ed Huntress

You need to check your facts a bit closer on this. Battleships did
carry black powder, but the 16 inch guns use mostly smokeless powder.

Dan

I'm glad you pointed that out, Dan, because, before the Internet, I sat
through a long argument about it from two guys who had served on
battleships, and I apparently got some bad information from them. And even
now, I see that one military website says it was black powder. I also may
have confused something with information I got from a National Park ranger
who gave tours of an old defense emplacement near New York harbor. I had
asked him specifically about the powder on the battleships, but he may have
been telling me about the defense batteries.

Most sources I find now say it was SPD, a smokeless powder. I'll assume
that's correct, without having first-hand knowledge of it.

--
Ed Huntress

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

I wonder if any of them are in the Black Sea at this moment?

--
Ed Huntress

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range. They do not need to be in
the Black Sea. They would be effective if they were in the Delaware
river in New Jersey.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range.

Dan


Why did our military buy a missile with a 4000 nanometer range ?

Best Regards
Tom.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine exploded
with black powder.

That's the kind of powder you'll find in battleship magazines, Bob. Those
16-inch guns are charged with sacks of black powder. They couldn't take
the pressure of anything else. That's why old photos of the New Jersey,
the Ohio, and so on show those huge blasts of smoke.

--
Ed Huntress


So sorry, the propellant ISN'T black powder. Actually, it's a mix of
different propellants and grain sizes. There is some black powder but it is
@75% smokeless powder, and some HE.

On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:59:43 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:

I ****ing give up on the press in the United States. Reporting that all oil
platforms are being evacuated in the Gulf of Mexico. Saying that the RNC
should postpone their convention because of the hurricane.

In the first case, oil platforms are NEVER totally evacuated during ANY
hurricane. I know. I've been through three hurricanes on platforms. I
worked in the Gulf of Mexico for eight years on rigs, barges and boats.
When was the last time you heard of a hurricane blowing over a oil platform?
I don't believe it can be done, as they are engineered for waves forty feet
higher than a cat 5 storm. Lots of them keep on producing, and some even
keep on drilling, shutting down only when the winds reach a certain level,
then resuming drilling when they subside. It is almost an impossibility to
leave a platform totally abandoned and unattended, as someone has to be
there to actuate safety equipment in certain scenarios. In many cases (been
there, done that) personnel are trapped on the platforms because they miss
the escape window. They can't fly out because choppers are grounded, and
swinging over by manropes is Russian roulette.

This only shows the ignorance of the press and the yellow dog journalism of
the sensationalism rags they have become. And the stupidity of the American
public as to life in the real world.

And please, if anyone can, explain to me how the delaying of the Republican
convention, which is IIRC several miles away from the hurricane's path,
would help anything. Oh, it could be called a humanitarian deed, since
"normal humanitarians" would never conceive having a convention with a
hurricane going on. Well, let's take it to the next level, and just wait
until the weather is clear ALL OVER THE ****ING WORLD so we can show that
the Republicans are as kind and caring as the Democrats profess to be.
Would Barry, Hillary, Billary, and the gang have canceled theirs? Only if
it were in New Orleans or Houston.

Oh, well, the Repubics are getting the last laugh, picking up a HUGE (sorry
I can't put it in larger type font, and make HUGE red and bold) voter block
of women voters.

Barry, bend over, put your head between your legs, and kiss your ass goodbye
back home. I never believed in my lifetime I would see anyone stupider than
Jimmy Carter. Never say never.

Steve


Indeed. Hillary is gonna get the last laugh..as a huge chunk of her
supporters vote Republcian for the first time, simply because they
will vote for Sarah Palin

Gunner

"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:50:17 -0700, "William Noble"
wrote:


"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.

gigantic rant about all sorts of stuff snipped

you cannot honestly turn the lack of knowlege of the press on a particular
subject into a politcal statement like you did. You can point out they are
wrong, and you can have your political opinions, but you have to recognize
that reporters do not know everything, and with the cutbacks, they know less
and less and can spend very little time in research. Almost anyone who
knows a lot about some subject will find errors in reporting on that
subject - that is not a political thing, that is what we get with the
monopilzation of our press and the loss of critical thinking skills by
having our schools pander to the lowest common denominator.

there are lots of smart folks on this NG, with a wide variety of opinions -
how about showing neural activity not just glandular reactions


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


I think Steve hit one of WIlliams nerves..really really hard.

Icepick to the brain stem hard.

It appears that the Obamassiah may NOT be a shoe in....


He ventured forth to bring light to the world

The anointed one's pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a miracle in action
- and
a blessing to all his faithful followers
Gerard Baker

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush
the
Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to
the
shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared
in the
wilderness.

The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple
family,
offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person
and an
African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of
righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a
little blow.

When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City
of
Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the
Prophet
Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they
heard
and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens
our
hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”

In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving
Hillary,
wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes
of
Working Class Whites.

And so it was, in the fullness of time, before the harvest month of
the
appointed year, the Child ventured forth - for the first time - to
bring the
light unto all the world.

He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue
that
consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He
ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the

Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining
terror
on all the world.

And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the
Caveats
that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued
the
forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the

Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows
and
the threat of terror was no more.

From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the
great
ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen
Month
Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to
destroy
it.

And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great
Surge of
Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a
waste
of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's
very
presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the
light.

And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to
speak
with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the
mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat
their
uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.

From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered
through
the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had
followed
him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and
strewed them
at his feet.

In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the
Hebrews
and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the
lion
lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their
long
enmity and lived for ever after in peace.

As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works,
peoples
from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons
and
McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.

And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of
the
Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to
decline, and
the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.

The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was
the
anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one
generations had been waiting for.

And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the
Wall,
spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and
rates
on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the
almond
tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow
again.

Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per
barrel. In
hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were
uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.

And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears
witness to
the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for
he saw
it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.

Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped
onto the
shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel,
vast
multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at
length.

But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was
hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited
for
him.

And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they
had was
five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the
frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the
multitudes.
And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.

Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess
Carla
of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love
with
the Child, but he was tempted not.

On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the
ancient
land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the
once
great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his
successor,
David the Golden One.

And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the
whole host
of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising
God and
singing: “Yes, We Can.”
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

SteveB wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote

I'll be laughing at you when the arrests and trails get into full
swing buddy.

They've started already. God help us all.


http://frontpagemagazine.com/Article...3-318EE490CC79


Filing a complaint and picking up the phone to your Attorney General are two
different things.
There are arrest warrants out for both Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld in the
EU today.

I'd like to see both of them and a host of others stand the dock in an
American court.

Ford never should have pardoned Nixon.

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 01:20:08 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

I wonder if any of them are in the Black Sea at this moment?

--
Ed Huntress

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range. They do not need to be in
the Black Sea. They would be effective if they were in the Delaware
river in New Jersey.

Too shallow. g

Jersey or the river?

--
Smokey the Bear's rules for fire safety should apply to government:
Keep it small, keep it in a confined area, and keep an eye on it.
--John Stossel in _Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity_

In article ,
"azotic" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range.

Dan


Why did our military buy a missile with a 4000 nanometer range ?

So they can hide in the vastness of the oceans, safe from a surprise
strike. It's one leg of the deterrence triad: land (the silos under the
Nebraska cornfields), sea (nuclear subs with missiles), and air
(Strategic Air Command).

The theory of it is that one must arrange things so that all but the
most rabid of *Soviet* right-wingers knows that a surprise attack cannot
work, and will surely result in their homeland glowing softly in the
dark, so nobody is tempted to even try.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"azotic" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range.

Dan


Why did our military buy a missile with a 4000 nanometer range ?

It's nautical mile, not nanometer. A nautical mile (exactly 1852
meters) is about one minute of lattitude on the earth's surface.

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:40:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Joseph Gwinn quickly quoth:

In article ,
"azotic" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range.

Why did our military buy a missile with a 4000 nanometer range ?

He surely meant to remind you and Ed that a nanometer is one billionth
of a meter. (To those of you in Rio Linda, the nm is _much_ smaller
than a yard.)


So they can hide in the vastness of the oceans, safe from a surprise
strike. It's one leg of the deterrence triad: land (the silos under the
Nebraska cornfields), sea (nuclear subs with missiles), and air
(Strategic Air Command).

Remember that with technological advances and satellite monitoring,
our (and other nations') subs are no longer invisible, although they
can hide for awhile on occasion.


The theory of it is that one must arrange things so that all but the
most rabid of *Soviet* right-wingers knows that a surprise attack cannot
work, and will surely result in their homeland glowing softly in the
dark, so nobody is tempted to even try.

The problem behind the MAD theory is that it only works with sane
people. Once Islamic (or other) tangoes go nuclear, that's out the
window the planet will become poisoned.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides

On Aug 29, 10:50 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

Most sources I find now say it was SPD, a smokeless powder. I'll assume
that's correct, without having first-hand knowledge of it.

--
Ed Huntress

I don't have any first hand knowledge either, but have great faith in
the newspapers getting stories wrong or enhancing stories to have more
appeal to the general public.

Dan

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:40:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Joseph Gwinn quickly quoth:

In article ,
"azotic" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range.

Why did our military buy a missile with a 4000 nanometer range ?

He surely meant to remind you and Ed that a nanometer is one billionth
of a meter. (To those of you in Rio Linda, the nm is _much_ smaller
than a yard.)

That was a misattribution to me. A long-time sailor, I recognize a nautical
mile and wasn't questioning it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Aug 30, 12:56*am, " wrote:
On Aug 29, 7:39 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "Robert Swinney" wrote in message
My favorite was several years back when the battleship magazine exploded
with black powder.
You need to check your facts a bit closer on this. *Battleships did
carry black powder, but the 16 inch guns use mostly smokeless powder.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan

There is a small amount of black powder on the ends of the smokeless
powder bag to aid ignition. One theory is that the sailors ran the
hydraulic loading rammer too fast and set it off by friction or
compression.

A Democratic Senate and Democratic House with a Democrat in the WH?
Joe Biden is going to bring on some serious payback and he's just the
guy to
do it.
There won't be a Republican lawyer out of work for a decade.
All fair and square.

Unfortunately you may be right. They seem to have no objectives beyond
power and revenge.

On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:59:43 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.
snip
========
Interesting responses, but such lapses are to be expected as the
US media attempts to "right size" down to where they can make a
profit to pay off their huge leveraged buyout/consolidation
loans. Interesting mind set in that many of the papers are also
reducing the circulation of their papers and then complaining
when the ad revenue decreases again. For example the Kansas City
Star and the Dallas news are both major papers in their area [KC
Star in my area now], but to cut expenses, they cut press runs
and distribution and then were "shocked, shocked" when their
revenues fell. WTF???

The older journalists and copy editors have been retired/axed and
have been replaced with new college grads with "journalism"
majors (and little else). For the most part the new hires do the
best they can, but have limited experience in any field, and in
any event, agreement with the ideology of the new owners is far
more critical than any field of knowledge [e.g. the WSJ].

This appears to be a common trend throughout all areas in the US,
but you are more aware of the [affects/effects] of trend in the
media because you have some knowledge of the particular area
reported. Just remember that this covers all the other areas
about which they report "news" including politics and economics.

Unfortunately this trend of "saving money" by hiring cheap help
[and firing the better paid, but competent] does not appear to be
limited to the media and Circuit City, but includes the
hospitals, law enforcement, automobile and aircraft manufacture,
etc. Some recent examples are the surge in people with chest
pains and shortness of breath dying in hospital emergency rooms
after waiting for treatment for several hours.

Old Marx brothers routine that is still true today:

You want good? I got good.

You want cheap? I got cheap.

You want good and cheap? I no got good and cheap.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:59:43 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.
snip
========
Interesting responses, but such lapses are to be expected as the
US media attempts to "right size" down to where they can make a
profit to pay off their huge leveraged buyout/consolidation
loans.

Did you read any of the articles? Did you see anything remotely like what
Steve was claiming? I read the NYT and six or seven from Google News, all
from majors. There wasn't a hint of the press "suggesting" a delay in any of
them. It all came originally from a Fox News interview with a RNC official,
who made the suggestion herself.

snip

--
Ed Huntress

"John R. Carroll" wrote

I'd like to see both of them and a host of others stand the dock in an
American court.

Prolly be a kangaroo court like that feller who was impeached. What was his
name again?

Steve

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:40:20 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Joseph Gwinn quickly quoth:

In article ,
"azotic" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Aug 29, 8:42 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

The Trident missile has a 4000 nm range.

Why did our military buy a missile with a 4000 nanometer range ?

He surely meant to remind you and Ed that a nanometer is one billionth
of a meter.

I didn't misunderstand the nm, given the context. Nor did Ed.


(To those of you in Rio Linda, the nm is _much_ smaller
than a yard.)

Like one billionth of a meter.


So they can hide in the vastness of the oceans, safe from a surprise
strike. It's one leg of the deterrence triad: land (the silos under the
Nebraska cornfields), sea (nuclear subs with missiles), and air
(Strategic Air Command).

Remember that with technological advances and satellite monitoring,
our (and other nations') subs are no longer invisible, although they
can hide for awhile on occasion.

Not exactly. The oceans are very large and very deep, and one cannot
see as deep as a sub can operate. It remains quite difficult to find a
sub that doesn't want to be found. Even if one can find them, what
would be needed is to locate every one of them to within say a mile so
they could be hit with missile-borne nuclear depth charges, all at the
same time. Too many subs would survive, and launch the counterstrike.

Both the US and Russia have something like 10,000 warheads apiece. A 90%
destruction rate (which would be very good by historical measures) would
leave a mere 1000 warheads apiece, enough to utterly destroy both
contestants. Even 99% would leave 100 warheads per side. It would not
be a pleasant day.


The theory of it is that one must arrange things so that all but the
most rabid of *Soviet* right-wingers knows that a surprise attack cannot
work, and will surely result in their homeland glowing softly in the
dark, so nobody is tempted to even try.

The problem behind the MAD theory is that it only works with sane
people. Once Islamic (or other) tangoes go nuclear, that's out the
window the planet will become poisoned.

The problem isn't directly with say Iran, which "has an address" and
would suffer badly if they did anything. The problem is with stateless
actors, who have no address. This is the bigger reason to try to stop
Iran from going nuclear - to eliminate a likely source of seepage.

The DoD has been collecting technical ID information for decades,
originally as part of the intel effort against the Soviet, and now with
new "customers", and one can tell a lot about who made a bomb from the
isotopic composition of the fallout.


Now it should be mentioned that one or two nuclear explosions will not
poison the planet, however badly their targets may fare.

There were hundreds of open-air tests between the US, Russia, France,
The UK, and China before the Test Ban Treaty came into effect. Some of
these explosions were quite large.

The Soviet Union exploded a 50 megaton bomb at Novaya Zemlya in the days
of Kruschev: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba.


Joe Gwinn

On Aug 30, 8:05 am, F. George McDuffee
Interesting responses, but such lapses are to be expected as the
US media attempts to "right size" down to where they can make a
profit to pay off their huge leveraged buyout/consolidation
loans.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------

I can remember the press doing a less than stellar job in about 1962
or 1963. This is not a new thing, but may be worse now.

Those that can, do
Those that can't, teach
Those that can't teach go into journalism.

Journalism is much like " Art History " except there is a greater
chance of getting a job.

Dan

SteveB wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote

I'd like to see both of them and a host of others stand the dock in
an American court.

Prolly be a kangaroo court like that feller who was impeached. What
was his name again?

There have beemn a couple but impeachment is a political trial. In other
words, it's our version of a kangaroo court and it's that way by design.

The courts I want to see put to use are the actual United States Federal
ones.

Another instance that's going to play out is the allegation in Ron Susskinds
book that the WH ordered the CIA to cobble up a document supporting our
invasion of Iraq. Dick Cheney's office to be precise.

The White House flat out denied the charges made and so did the CIA
employees referenced in the book.
Well, guess what. The interviews in question had been recorded and Susskind
had taken copius notes as well.
When Susskind published his material the denials stopped cold. His material
is direct evidence and backs up what he'd written. The CIA and WH were flat
out lying in their denials.

We are on to plan "B" now where the CIA is claiming Susskind shouldn't have
made the recordings.
They won't address the issue of authenticity unless you consider their
filing a lawsuit trying to block further publication as validation ( I do by
the way) and what all of this might eventually come down to after next
January 20th is the arrest and trial of Dick Cheney and several others. They
would be looking at potential life sentences if the don't prevail and given
the currently published statements and testimony that's public I can't think
of a single valid reason not to proceed with prosecutions.


Can you think of one?

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:33:36 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:59:43 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

I ****ing give up on the press in the United States.
snip
========
Interesting responses, but such lapses are to be expected as the
US media attempts to "right size" down to where they can make a
profit to pay off their huge leveraged buyout/consolidation
loans.

Did you read any of the articles? Did you see anything remotely like what
Steve was claiming? I read the NYT and six or seven from Google News, all
from majors. There wasn't a hint of the press "suggesting" a delay in any of
them. It all came originally from a Fox News interview with a RNC official,
who made the suggestion herself.

snip
=========
Indeed, and this is what getting your news on the cheap is all
about, i.e. copying handouts and press releases with no analysis
and fact checking. To see what we are talking about click on
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5972517.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082803165.html
http://www.postchronicle.com/news/br...12168181.shtml
and about 68,900 more if you google on rnc convention
postponement OR delay

On the other hand landfall of a major storm into the gulf states
will cause some problems in that a number of delegates, etc. are
also officials of these states that would be impacted and may be
needed at home, and communications into these areas may be a
problem.

The most critical aspect from the RNC viewpoint may be that a
major storm will pre-empt the news coverage and hype of [most of]
their convention. Tough for the political gas bags to get any
air time when 100+ MPH winds are blowing outside, the shingles
are coming off the roof and levees are failing....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

John R. Carroll wrote:

SteveB wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote


I'd like to see both of them and a host of others stand the dock in
an American court.

Prolly be a kangaroo court like that feller who was impeached. What
was his name again?


There have beemn a couple but impeachment is a political trial. In other
words, it's our version of a kangaroo court and it's that way by design.

The courts I want to see put to use are the actual United States Federal
ones.

Another instance that's going to play out is the allegation in Ron Susskinds
book that the WH ordered the CIA to cobble up a document supporting our
invasion of Iraq. Dick Cheney's office to be precise.

The White House flat out denied the charges made and so did the CIA
employees referenced in the book.
Well, guess what. The interviews in question had been recorded and Susskind
had taken copius notes as well.
When Susskind published his material the denials stopped cold. His material
is direct evidence and backs up what he'd written. The CIA and WH were flat
out lying in their denials.

We are on to plan "B" now where the CIA is claiming Susskind shouldn't have
made the recordings.
They won't address the issue of authenticity unless you consider their
filing a lawsuit trying to block further publication as validation ( I do by
the way) and what all of this might eventually come down to after next
January 20th is the arrest and trial of Dick Cheney and several others. They
would be looking at potential life sentences if the don't prevail and given
the currently published statements and testimony that's public I can't think
of a single valid reason not to proceed with prosecutions.


Can you think of one?


It's not really anything new on the part of our fearless leaders....

http://www.amazon.com/Conservatives-.../dp/0670037745


But a judicial trial might make others pause before following siut.

Or not.
People being what they are...


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)