there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house and
the disposable education.

randy

As an old amateur radio operator, you struck a chord with me. Fixing things
today means knowing where to buy the part, not at all as much fun as scotch
tape and glue, with, heaven for bid, some thought about electronics and
creativity. Today, research has become a "link". I remember climbing
through open stacks (and, Google misses a LOT)
Jack
xrongor wrote in message
...
there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought
a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly
what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at
a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or
just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay
someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house
and
the disposable education.

randy

FlavorFlav wrote in message
news:1109317454.99a2ad01e62b2f9f6340ab2dc427e2b9@b ubbanews...
"xrongor" wrote in
:

there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just
bought a new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt
make exactly what you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed
you knew how to look at a problem and solve it. look at old popular
mechanics magazines for one example. heck, they practically assumed
you had a welder in the garage. and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation,
one of you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being
'unsafe' or just plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself
to you one track minded idiots that have long since lost the ability
to think. maybe there should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay
someone to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of
knowledge degredation, its only a few years before everything simply
becomes disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and
play house and the disposable education.

randy



You need to get laid.

That still takes no brains and dismisses the point.

i didnt mean to come off as bitter as i may have in my original post. ive
just gotten a bit tired of being continually criticized for offering
something besides 'buy model number xxxyyy and install it with bracket
zzzzzz that you can get from www.buyitnowdontmakeit.com'

the other thing that i dont get; i see people spending all this money on
tools these days, but it doesnt seem like anybody knows how to use them any
more. if it doesnt attach to a cordless drill body, its a mystery. when i
was in school you HAD to take a shop class. im pretty sure they've dumped
that requirement. between budget cuts and fear of lawsuits...

randy


"Jack Sandweiss" wrote in message
...
As an old amateur radio operator, you struck a chord with me. Fixing
things
today means knowing where to buy the part, not at all as much fun as
scotch
tape and glue, with, heaven for bid, some thought about electronics and
creativity. Today, research has become a "link". I remember climbing
through open stacks (and, Google misses a LOT)
Jack

there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house and
the disposable education.

What do you want to make or fix? Here are some of my recent projects that
really **** some people off:

pulley contrap to lift framed walls all by myself (told by contractor I was out
of my mind...so I fired him)

Hooked up old swimming pool pump to fill heating oil tanks. Was told to switch
to propane by ignorant friends and neighbors. Now I have 250 gallons of
heating oil and diesel to fuel my truck when the gas lines get outta hand. The
heating oil company will truck the oil right to my house.

Decided to build my house all by myself and save a min $40,000. This angered
local workers who lusted after a piece of my action. Upside is I now have
great tools and can go into the biz myself and drive all these trailer-trash
high school dropouts into the ditchdigging business.

Do everything yourself. That way you learn and get quality at the same time.
There is nothing a contractor can fix or build that you can't.

The guy who calls you unsafe or crazy is just ****ed that you're competing with
him for precious dollars. Chances are he is a fat **** anyway so just **** on
his shoes while he is frothing away.

DF

A little to thin skinned? Don't take it so seriously. Are you not
surprised already some of the things we type in front of the screen we
would never say face to face to that person we are communicating to?

dirt farmer wrote:
Hooked up old swimming pool pump to fill heating oil tanks. Was told to
switch
to propane by ignorant friends and neighbors. Now I have 250 gallons of
heating oil and diesel to fuel my truck when the gas lines get outta hand.
The
heating oil company will truck the oil right to my house.

I admire your spunk and ability to think of new ways to do things
cheaper. But - it sounds to me - that you are breaking the law by using
home heating oil to run your diesel truck. I realize that heating oil
and diesel fuel are the same thing except for one thing - the color. The
government places a high fuel tax on diesel fuel. This is the reason
that home heating oil costs so much less - it does not have the road tax
on it. I forget what color dye they put in the heating oil - but if you
get caught with the wrong color in your truck - it is a big fine.

The reason I know this is because one of my friends during the 1978
energy crisis - bought a VW Diesel - I forget which model. Anyway - we
were paying like 80 cents a gallon for gasoline - and he was running on
heating oil that cost around 30 cents a gallon. We were waiting in
gasoline lines on odd and even days. He simply had a petcock on his
heating oil tank in the basement - fueling his VW diesel in the privacy
of locked basement by gravity from the fuel tank.

He would have gotten away with it - if he would have kept his mouth shut
- but he kept bragging in the faculty room to a bunch of disgruntled
teachers - and someone turned him in. They came to the house - checked
the fuel in the VW - then sampled the fuel in the home tank - then
photographed his little "filling station." Not only did he pay a hefty
fine - but he became national news during the energy crisis. He was
scorned by many unhappy motorists.

I was not the guy that used the heating fuel nor was I the guy that
turned him in - but I can understand both sides.

Harry

I had a 350 $ microave going bad, seeing a new one was only 36$ there
was no reason to even hassle or consider fixing the old unit. A repair
would have been 100$

Do you fix an old electronic apliance for twice the cost of a new
unit, sometimes, sometimes not. I just fixed an old 19"tv for more
than the cost of a new one . 8 months later I see I waisted time and
money as the repair failed.

So many things today imported crap that repairing them is not worth
it. It all depends on the product to be repaired. Today many products
are crap and cheaply priced , driving the "throw away " trend.

I think a big part of the problem is that it's often cheaper to buy a
new one made in China than it is to fix things. That plus most people
are too lazy or stupid or intimidated to fix things themselves.
Personally, I'm closing in on 40, and I'm still learning quite a bit
about how to fix everything. Between my 10 year old car and my vintage
1950 house I'm renovating I've learned quite a bit. Haven't needed a
contractor yet except for one minor thing and my car hasn't seen a shop
for years except for tires.

"I think a big part of the problem is that it's often cheaper to buy a
new one made in China than it is to fix things."

Being able to now buy mass manufactured things so cheap that it's not
worth fixing a lot of things that were repaired in the past isn't a
problem, in most cases, it's progress. If you look at what it would
cost to repair many things today, it's not worth it. Even if you do
the labor yourself, after you take it apart, lots of times it requires
a part and they usually aren't cheap, you have to figure out where to
get it, etc.

Waah.

Poor baby.

Does hims want hims banky?

wrote in message
oups.com...
"I think a big part of the problem is that it's often cheaper to buy a
new one made in China than it is to fix things."

Being able to now buy mass manufactured things so cheap that it's not
worth fixing a lot of things that were repaired in the past isn't a
problem, in most cases, it's progress. If you look at what it would
cost to repair many things today, it's not worth it. Even if you do
the labor yourself, after you take it apart, lots of times it requires
a part and they usually aren't cheap, you have to figure out where to
get it, etc.

Often the case. I had an $80 drill and needed one part. It cost $26 for a
new switch. Relatively new, it was worth fixing, IMO, but if anything
breaks again, it will probably be trashed.

Bought a toaster for $50. Works well, but it honestly does little more than
one that sells for $8. How much time can you spend on an $8 toaster if it
breaks?

I also buy household irons, but I use them for an industrial purpose. I
buy 4 to 6 at a time. Only specification is that it must be Teflon coated so
the sole plate does not stick in our use. When I first started buying them,
I paid about $22 each, 15 years ago. That same quality iron I now pay $13.
In all the years we've been using them, (Black & Decker, FWIW) not one has
stopped working because the heating element broke. They run 5 days a week,
16 to 24 hours a day. They only break when dropped or knocked over.

"xrongor" wrote in message
...

the other thing that i dont get; i see people spending all this money on
tools these days, but it doesnt seem like anybody knows how to use them
any
more. if it doesnt attach to a cordless drill body, its a mystery. when
i
was in school you HAD to take a shop class. im pretty sure they've dumped
that requirement. between budget cuts and fear of lawsuits...

I bet you had to walk up hill both ways in a blizzard wearing just a wind
breaker to get to school.

I'm 25 years old and I took shop class in 7th, 8th and 9th grade and enjoyed
it very much. However, with education budgets being so tight lately, I'd
much rather see the money go towards reading, math, science and the arts. If
you want to blame anyone, blame today's fathers for not teaching their sons
how to be handy, mostly because they don't know themselves. For that, I
blame *YOUR* generation.

Come to think of it, I also blame computers, the bomb, the Jews, North Korea
and Celine Dion...but mostly I blame *your* generation.

Greg M

Take heart, Randy. The day of the 'do it yourself' person is not dead yet.
My wife had succumbed to the "if it breaks, buy a new one syndrome". I
have, through many years of deprogramming, have had some success in getting
her away from that cult. She wanted to buy a new Kirby vacuum because ours
was not working as well. I told her "No way." I took the Electrolux into
the basement, took it apart, cleaned it (boy, did it need to be cleaned),
and now it works just like new (could use a new beater bar). I saved well
over a thousand dollars by fixing it myself.
I perform all maintenance on my motorcycles, in fact, I don't feel
comfortable letting anyone else near them. If I do it, I know that it is
done right. Hell, my dentist is so much of a 'fix it yourself' kind of guy,
that he does his own dental work!

Andrew

"xrongor" wrote in message
...
there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought
a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly
what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at
a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or
just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay
someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house
and
the disposable education.

randy

xrongor wrote:
there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just
bought a new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt
make exactly what you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed
you knew how to look at a problem and solve it. look at old popular
mechanics magazines for one example. heck, they practically assumed
you had a welder in the garage. and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

Man, you would *love* Mexico (I did)! They fix everything, throw away
virtually nothing. You can even go to a local market and buy used
screws and bolts.

--
dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Greg M" wrote
I'm 25 years old and ...
If
you want to blame anyone, blame today's fathers for not teaching their
sons
how to be handy, mostly because they don't know themselves. For that, I
blame *YOUR* generation.

Come to think of it, I also blame computers, the bomb, the Jews, North
Korea
and Celine Dion...but mostly I blame *your* generation.

So who taught you how to reason?

What nobody has mentioned so far is the simple satisfaction of completing
the job.
Granted as a retiree I have lots of time. But before you tell me how busy
you are, tell me how many hours you spend in front of the tube.

Charlie

"xrongor" wrote in message
...
there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought
a new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly
what you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to
look at a problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines
for one example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the
garage. and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or
just plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one
track minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe
there should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay
someone to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of
knowledge degredation, its only a few years before everything simply
becomes disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play
house and the disposable education.

randy

xrongor wrote:
there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house and
the disposable education.

randy

Translation: I got all Ds & Fs in accepts correction in grade school.
I don't know how to do repairs safely but I don't want that pointed out.

Let me offer some advise to any would be adviser of others on this open
forum. If you lack the knowledge or the experience or both to provide
sound advice then Shut The Fxxx Up!
--
Tom H

Wow....

I never saw Tom go off before! Pretty cool.

I have received a lot of very good repair info on this
site, a lot of it very clever and not to "spec" (purists would
criticize.) So many people have been so helpful. Don't
know where you're coming from.
Oh, BTW. The TRUE idiots are all on alt.hvac
Go there for your benchmarks.
Frank










On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:44:48 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:

there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think .for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house and
the disposable education.

randy

heating oil and diesel

When oil begins to get scarce, it will be survival of the fittest. I like to
have options available.

By the way I don't have the truck yet. But I've been looking at the Ford F250.

DF

Chances are he is a fat **** anyway so just **** on
his shoes while he is frothing away.

I can't believe I wrote that...

DF

Waah.

Poor baby.

snip babble

Here's something you can fix:

Global Warming

That's something you can't just throw away and replace at WalMart.

DF

PS. Gotcha.

"John B" wrote in message
...

"Greg M" wrote
I'm 25 years old and ...
If
you want to blame anyone, blame today's fathers for not teaching their
sons
how to be handy, mostly because they don't know themselves. For that, I
blame *YOUR* generation.

Come to think of it, I also blame computers, the bomb, the Jews, North
Korea
and Celine Dion...but mostly I blame *your* generation.

So who taught you how to reason?


None other then the father of logic, Aristotle.

Sarcasm. It's what's for dinner.

Greg M

dirt farmer wrote:
Chances are he is a fat **** anyway so just **** on
his shoes while he is frothing away.

I can't believe I wrote that...

Hehe - plenty of us have done that kind of thing too. No worries.

xrongor wrote:

there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house and
the disposable education.

randy



I'm suprised that no one has yet noted that the technologies we have
grown to depend on have gotten far more complex and expansive that they
were a couple of generations ago.

When I graduated as an electrical engineer I considered myself pretty
much a "renaissance man" in that dicipline, as there wasn't much around
other than AM, FM and shortwave radios, TV, radar and a little bit of
what they called "industrial electronics" back then, and a competant
engineer could get comfortable with any of those in a short time. Look
at what the world of electronics has become now. A smart person can
still comprehend the purpose and function of most of it, but no one
individual can have usefull detailed knowledge of more than a small
portion of it.

Back then, (I'm talking the 50s.) the "electrics" in homes (and the
appliances in them) were pretty much just collections of fuses,
switches, light bulbs, motors, heating elements and maybe a solenoid or
two. Easy stuff to learn to understand and fix. Not so today, eh?

I could go on about how much more complex vehicles and machinery have
become, but you get my point (I hope.)

Add to that the vast change in the economic dichotomy between the
"haves" who owned stuff and the "have nots" who fixed that stuff for
them, and even a minor hired repair can seem like an economic disaster
to most people. That tilts the "fix or buy new" decision in favor of
tossing stuff out.

Another factor which comes into play is that our insatiable appetite for
aquiring more goods than we really need (by confusing want with need)
keeps many of us working longer hours or even two jobs just to pay for
all the junk our families "absolutely positively" have to have. That
doesn't leave us with as much time as our forbearers had to fix stuff,
or even learn how to fix it.

Like a few others on this thread have pointed out, there are those of us
(and I most definitely include myself here) who just enjoy fixin' stuff
for a hobby, without making any pretense of that having any serious
economic practicality. Hey, lots of guys like to walk around for half a
day swinging a club at a little white ball on the golf course, and some
guys collect stamps. To each his own.

With regard to the totally technologically challenged who really
shouldn't be messing with stuff which can kill them or someone else, I
can only remark that the expression "Fools rush in where angels dare to
tread" was around long before Edison developed a practical light bulb,
and will probably still be valid a few generations from now if we don't
blow up the planet by then.

Just my .02,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:44:48 -0700, "xrongor"
wrote:

there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just bought a
new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make exactly what
you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew how to look at a
problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics magazines for one
example. heck, they practically assumed you had a welder in the garage.
and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one of
you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe' or just
plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one track
minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think. maybe there
should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think .for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay someone
to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of knowledge
degredation, its only a few years before everything simply becomes
disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play house and
the disposable education.

randy

==========================
Randy:
I have NOT read any of the replies to your post...BUT
WILL ...

I am in my "early" 60's and I do have a welder in the garage..lol

BUT I can tell you that personally I would never give up ...just not
my "style"...you can call me cheap, hard headded or even nuts I do
not care .

That said some things are just easier to replace then fix... I had my
$100 coffee pot (Krupt or something like that spring a leak..).. that
sucker was never made to be taken apart... I went out and purchased a
Cheap Mr. Coffee ...but only after killing a few hours "playing with
the expensive leaker... Did I give UP...HELL NO... that baby is
sitting on my workbench right now I'll fix it and use it in the Garage
....question is when?


Bob Griffiths.

Thats nice Jeffie.

Now go run along and put in an underrated disconnect in your attic, or
perhaps put in a 'transfer switch' between your dryer and your range.
If you can't afford that, you could just put an extension cord on your
dryer, and run it through the wall (make it all pretty though, with PVC
pipe and grometts, of course) - then you could plug your dryer in when
you needed to use it.

They teach ya those tricks in engineering school, Jeffie?

Can I call you cheap, hard headed, AND nuts?

I'm 25 years old and I took shop class in 7th, 8th and 9th grade and enjoyed
it very much. However, with education budgets being so tight lately, I'd
much rather see the money go towards reading, math, science and the arts. If
you want to blame anyone, blame today's fathers for not teaching their sons
how to be handy, mostly because they don't know themselves. For that, I
blame *YOUR* generation.

Come to think of it, I also blame computers, the bomb, the Jews, North Korea
and Celine Dion...but mostly I blame *your* generation.

Greg M

======
I am in my 60's and I do have 3 grown Children but I honestly do not
understand why you would prefer your tax dollars to go for reading,
math, science ... PLUS the ARTS... to me shop class and learning how
to play a team sport are much more beneficial to an individual then
the ARTS....

No argument from me on the Math Science etc... BUT wtf can the Arts
really do for you.

Bob Griffiths

Dunno. Ask Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, J Lo, or Esther Williams.

Damn. I meant Ethel Merman.

Ya know flav, I went through a very long period of time hating you.
That damn stupid clock around your neck, those goofy ass gold teeth of
yours, and the silly contortions you make with your hands/arms. The
baggy pants and gold chains never really did much for me either.
Basically I always thought you were the goofiest looking mofo I'd ever
seen.

But underneath all the silly stuff, your really a nice guy.

So, I apologize for hating you all these years.

But lose the ****ing clock, would ya please?

"HorneTD" wrote in message
ink.net...
xrongor wrote:
there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just
bought a new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt make
exactly what you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed you knew
how to look at a problem and solve it. look at old popular mechanics
magazines for one example. heck, they practically assumed you had a
welder in the garage. and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation, one
of you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being 'unsafe'
or just plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself to you one
track minded idiots that have long since lost the ability to think.
maybe there should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay
someone to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of
knowledge degredation, its only a few years before everything simply
becomes disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and play
house and the disposable education.

randy

Translation: I got all Ds & Fs in accepts correction in grade school. I
don't know how to do repairs safely but I don't want that pointed out.

Let me offer some advise to any would be adviser of others on this open
forum. If you lack the knowledge or the experience or both to provide
sound advice then Shut The Fxxx Up!
--
Tom H

see what i have to put up with? lol.

randy

"Matt" wrote in message
....
Dunno. Ask Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, J Lo, or Esther Williams.


Yeah, the world would be in sorry shape if not for these "artists" keeping
us happy. You forgot other great heroes like Paris Hilton and Brittany
Spears.

xrongor wrote:
i didnt mean to come off as bitter as i may have in my original post. ive
just gotten a bit tired of being continually criticized for offering
something besides 'buy model number xxxyyy and install it with bracket
zzzzzz that you can get from www.buyitnowdontmakeit.com'

the other thing that i dont get; i see people spending all this money on
tools these days, but it doesnt seem like anybody knows how to use them any
more. if it doesnt attach to a cordless drill body, its a mystery. when i
was in school you HAD to take a shop class. im pretty sure they've dumped
that requirement. between budget cuts and fear of lawsuits...

randy


"Jack Sandweiss" wrote in message
...

As an old amateur radio operator, you struck a chord with me. Fixing
things
today means knowing where to buy the part, not at all as much fun as
scotch
tape and glue, with, heaven for bid, some thought about electronics and
creativity. Today, research has become a "link". I remember climbing
through open stacks (and, Google misses a LOT)
Jack




You had to take shop? I never had to take, but I
did take a year. My father was born in 1898 and
he never had to take shop. But he did for 4 years
of high school. I'm curious, what time frame and
what state required such a thing? I could see CA
maybe MA.

None the less, I agree with you. But as the world
gets more complicated, fixing things requires more
knowledge and some people are barely able to tie
their shoes. Hell, they can't even check to see
if the appliance is plugged in before calling the
repairman.

Contrary to the BS you keep hearing from
educators, people are NOT getting smarter. More
people that ever are being mis-educated; although
that has always been common in small groups large
groups of mis-informed people result with the
current technology. Kooks and kook believers are
as common as ever and always will be.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
xrongor wrote:

there was once a time where people actually fixed things. not just
bought a new one and replaced it, but fixed things. if they didnt
make exactly what you wanted, you made it yourself. it was assumed
you knew how to look at a problem and solve it. look at old popular
mechanics magazines for one example. heck, they practically assumed
you had a welder in the garage. and you know what, you probably did.

ah but times have changed. thinking has become a thing of the past.
spending is the new thing.

every time i suggest anything requiring some thought or innovation,
one of you guys comes out of the woodwork and attacks me for being
'unsafe' or just plain crazy. it gets tiring trying to explain myself
to you one track minded idiots that have long since lost the ability
to think. maybe there should be a seperate group called
alt.home.pay.someone.to.fix.it.cause.i.cant.think. for.myself.

i give up. just toss it and buy a new one. if it doent exist, pay
someone to do your thinking for you. i figure at the current rate of
knowledge degredation, its only a few years before everything simply
becomes disposable anyway. we arent that far off now. the plug and
play house and the disposable education.

randy


I'm suprised that no one has yet noted that the technologies we have
grown to depend on have gotten far more complex and expansive that they
were a couple of generations ago.

Jeff, I totally agree with just about everything
you said

When I graduated as an electrical engineer I considered myself pretty
much a "renaissance man" in that dicipline, as there wasn't much around
other than AM, FM and shortwave radios, TV, radar and a little bit of
what they called "industrial electronics" back then, and a competant
engineer could get comfortable with any of those in a short time. Look
at what the world of electronics has become now. A smart person can
still comprehend the purpose and function of most of it, but no one
individual can have usefull detailed knowledge of more than a small
portion of it.

Back then, (I'm talking the 50s.) the "electrics" in homes (and the
appliances in them) were pretty much just collections of fuses,
switches, light bulbs, motors, heating elements and maybe a solenoid or
two. Easy stuff to learn to understand and fix. Not so today, eh?

I could go on about how much more complex vehicles and machinery have
become, but you get my point (I hope.)

Add to that the vast change in the economic dichotomy between the
"haves" who owned stuff and the "have nots" who fixed that stuff for
them, and even a minor hired repair can seem like an economic disaster
to most people. That tilts the "fix or buy new" decision in favor of
tossing stuff out.

Another factor which comes into play is that our insatiable appetite for
aquiring more goods than we really need (by confusing want with need)
keeps many of us working longer hours or even two jobs just to pay for
all the junk our families "absolutely positively" have to have. That
doesn't leave us with as much time as our forbearers had to fix stuff,
or even learn how to fix it.

Even if you don't have an insatiable appetite for
stuff, you still get screwed. All sorts of
interests push one toward efficient stuff that you
simply cannot fix, e.g. "improved" gas furnaces
that require all sorts of electronics and a failed
board can only be replaced, not fix, even if one
bought all the tools to figure out what went
wrong. Or new cars completely controlled by
electronics.


Like a few others on this thread have pointed out, there are those of us
(and I most definitely include myself here) who just enjoy fixin' stuff
for a hobby, without making any pretense of that having any serious
economic practicality. Hey, lots of guys like to walk around for half a
day swinging a club at a little white ball on the golf course, and some
guys collect stamps. To each his own.

Or play computer games. I find that it's not so
much the fixing as the finding out that is most
enjoyable.

With regard to the totally technologically challenged who really
shouldn't be messing with stuff which can kill them or someone else, I
can only remark that the expression "Fools rush in where angels dare to
tread" was around long before Edison developed a practical light bulb,
and will probably still be valid a few generations from now if we don't
blow up the planet by then.

I wouldn't worry to much about giving them advice
that may be dangerous if not carefully followed.
They are driving auto and may kill you and they
are also likely to be the ones that are into a
variety of highly dangerous activities which
hopefully will end their gene line.


Just my .02,

Jeff

In article , "George E. Cawthon" wrote:

You had to take shop? I never had to take, but I
did take a year. My father was born in 1898 and
he never had to take shop. But he did for 4 years
of high school. I'm curious, what time frame and
what state required such a thing? I could see CA
maybe MA.

Springfield, Illinois, in my experience: required the first two years of
*junior* high school, optional the third (foreign language or shop required,
pick one). That was in the late 1960s. No idea whether that was a state
requirement or a local one, but there it was.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
xrongor wrote:
i didnt mean to come off as bitter as i may have in my original post.
ive just gotten a bit tired of being continually criticized for offering
something besides 'buy model number xxxyyy and install it with bracket
zzzzzz that you can get from www.buyitnowdontmakeit.com'

the other thing that i dont get; i see people spending all this money on
tools these days, but it doesnt seem like anybody knows how to use them
any more. if it doesnt attach to a cordless drill body, its a mystery.
when i was in school you HAD to take a shop class. im pretty sure
they've dumped that requirement. between budget cuts and fear of
lawsuits...

randy


"Jack Sandweiss" wrote in message
...

As an old amateur radio operator, you struck a chord with me. Fixing
things
today means knowing where to buy the part, not at all as much fun as
scotch
tape and glue, with, heaven for bid, some thought about electronics and
creativity. Today, research has become a "link". I remember climbing
through open stacks (and, Google misses a LOT)
Jack




You had to take shop? I never had to take, but I did take a year. My
father was born in 1898 and he never had to take shop. But he did for 4
years of high school. I'm curious, what time frame and what state
required such a thing? I could see CA maybe MA.

this was in the 70's in WA state. everyone had to take a quarter each of:
home economics (how to balance checkbook, invest and save money, etc), shop,
cooking, and something else useful.


None the less, I agree with you. But as the world gets more complicated,
fixing things requires more knowledge and some people are barely able to
tie their shoes. Hell, they can't even check to see if the appliance is
plugged in before calling the repairman.

Contrary to the BS you keep hearing from educators, people are NOT getting
smarter. More people that ever are being mis-educated; although that has
always been common in small groups large groups of mis-informed people
result with the current technology. Kooks and kook believers are as
common as ever and always will be.

no child left behind... lol

randy

Compulsive!