Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:39:40 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.

It will act as a big air brake if you hang a solid slab of steel out
there. Ergo the expanded metal that many utility trailers use -
plenty strong enough for riding mowers and Quads and motorcycles if
you place some modest reinforcement behind it.

But if you are going to drive an 8N on it (that's a medium size
tractor) or a car, just diamond-plate alone won't cut it. You need
some serious trusswork behind the plate.

Go look at some factory made implement trailers for design ideas you
can steal - they make the ramp out of really heavy channel or angle
with a triangular truss design, more angle on edge for the tire face
(best traction) and a built-in landing foot at the trailer end of the
ramp so you can load while the trailer is unhitched.

Though I prefer separate tail jacks on the rear of the trailer, they
can adjust for uneven ground without twisting the ramps or frame.

-- Bruce --

On Apr 18, 8:39*am, stryped wrote:
Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.

Don't make the ramp too heavy to lift. I would build the ramp for
normal loads and use planks for the tractor.

stryped wrote:
Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.


At $5.00 per gal. gasoline (no. not yet. but wait.) how much wind
resistence do you want? Assuming this is the RAMPS you are talking
about. Now, for the bed. Diamond plate is good. Expanded metal will
allow much of the mud, etc. to drop through - or come up from the
bottom! The diamond plate will be easier to sweep off. Plus, if you're
hauling gravel you'll need to consider the holes in the expanded metal
vs. the size gravel. You *may* be better off with diamond plate on the
bed. Expanded metal on the ramps - if anything. If you have two
individual ramps you may just want the angle iron placed close enough
for whatever tires you plan to run up them.

On Apr 18, 12:01*pm, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:
Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.

At $5.00 per gal. gasoline (no. not yet. but wait.) how much wind
resistence do you want? *Assuming this is the RAMPS you are talking
about. *Now, for the bed. *Diamond plate is good. *Expanded metal will
allow much of the mud, etc. to drop through - or come up from the
bottom! *The diamond plate will be easier to sweep off. *Plus, if you're
hauling gravel you'll need to consider the holes in the expanded metal
vs. the size gravel. *You *may* be better off with diamond plate on the
bed. *Expanded metal on the ramps - if anything. *If you have two
individual ramps you may just want the angle iron placed close enough
for whatever tires you plan to run up them.

Is 4x4 1/4 inch tubing too big/heavy for a 10 foot trailer? I can get
80 feet of it at scap price.

stryped wrote:
On Apr 18, 12:01 pm, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:
Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.
Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.
If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.
At $5.00 per gal. gasoline (no. not yet. but wait.) how much wind
resistence do you want? Assuming this is the RAMPS you are talking
about. Now, for the bed. Diamond plate is good. Expanded metal will
allow much of the mud, etc. to drop through - or come up from the
bottom! The diamond plate will be easier to sweep off. Plus, if you're
hauling gravel you'll need to consider the holes in the expanded metal
vs. the size gravel. You *may* be better off with diamond plate on the
bed. Expanded metal on the ramps - if anything. If you have two
individual ramps you may just want the angle iron placed close enough
for whatever tires you plan to run up them.

Is 4x4 1/4 inch tubing too big/heavy for a 10 foot trailer? I can get
80 feet of it at scap price.

Buy the metal. It's a good price. If you decide not to build this
thing at all it's still a good investment. ALL metals are going up.
You can resell it later.

Normally I'd say 4"x4"x1/4" *might* be a little heavy for a small
utility trailer, but you've already told us you want to haul gravel on
it. When you go get a 1/2 ton of gravel sometime and see how small a
pile it is you might wonder why you didn't use a wheel barrow.

Build it as big and heavy as you need it, but keep in mind what you plan
to pull it with. I don't recall your saying. If all you have is
something like a Chevy Celebrity, which only has half a chassis, you
might want to keep it pretty light. If you have a full size pickup or
Suburban build it big and strong.

To answer you question: No, I don't think the 4x4x1/4 will be too
large. It might just mean you don't need as much other bracing.
Apparently you aren't building it for efficiency anyway. Nor do you
plan to pull it very far, very fast or very often. Go for the strength,
but don't forget to size the axle(s) & tires according to the *maximum*
possible load. Otherwise, you'll have to load it according to its
capacity. When you use two tires with a max load of 550# each you only
have 1100# *total* capacity -- including the trailer. If the trailer
weighs 1100# you have zero legal carrying capacity. You probably should
use dual axles, or pretty heavy capacity axles, spindles & tires - with
brakes - for hauling that 8N tractor.

Have you thought about just picking up a copy of the "Shopper" or
"Trader" and finding something someone else would like to get rid of?
They have all kinds of services for buying, selling or trading. They're
available in lots of convenience stores & service stations.

Go to http://www.craigslist.org/about/sites.html and use their little
menu. USA, Canada, Europe, etc. Every state is probably listed and
when you click on it you can usually narrow that down a bit.
"Everything" is for sale on it.

Good luck, whether you build or buy.

Al

That 4x4x1/4" would make a heavy trailer, therefore you will certainly
need an axle with brakes with higher weight capacity.

Stryped, could you remind us how your previous projects worked out?

i

In the local saw shop I saw a back ramp lift assist.

They were long pistons - as on hatch backs !

Nominal strength to lift them. Some are very heavy.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 18, 8:39 am, stryped wrote:
Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.

Don't make the ramp too heavy to lift. I would build the ramp for
normal loads and use planks for the tractor.


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Those long mesh tailgates are for loading riding mowers which will
drag unless the angle between the bed and the ramp is very shallow.
For vehicles with more ground clearance it's simpler to use two ramps
tthat store in or under the bed.

On Apr 18, 10:07*pm, Ignoramus15242 ignoramus15...@NOSPAM.
15242.invalid wrote:
That 4x4x1/4" would make a heavy trailer, therefore you will certainly
need an axle with brakes with higher weight capacity.

Stryped, could you remind us how your previous projects worked out?

i

With how high a capacity?

What other projects?

stryped wrote:


What other projects?

Stryped,

I *think* this is what he was driving at! IF you have not "built" any
other projects you may need to start with something with a bit less
liability risk should something go wrong.

Tell us about some of your welding repairs, especially those that held
up under hard service for a long time.

A trailer takes a real beating up and down the road hitting pot / chug
holes everywhere. A load on the trailer, the only reason for having a
trailer in the first place, increases the strains and stresses on the
steel *and welds*. Sometimes they *may* have a tendency to "fishtail"
and dance all over the road, having a tendency to flop the towing
vehicle around with its gyrations. Under these circumstances you could
very easily lose control of the towing vehicle and wind up in the ditch
- or worse, a river - with the tractor on top of you.

Several of us probably think you should build a trailer to tow behind
your riding lawn mower before you build one to haul an 8N tractor up and
down the road with.

Perhaps, in the mean time you should just buy a good factory built
trailer WITH BRAKES. ;-)

On Apr 19, 8:35*pm, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:

What other projects?

Stryped,

I *think* this is what he was driving at! *IF you have not "built" any
other projects you may need to start with something with a bit less
liability risk should something go wrong.

Tell us about some of your welding repairs, especially those that held
up under hard service for a long time.

A trailer takes a real beating up and down the road hitting pot / chug
holes everywhere. A load on the trailer, the only reason for having a
trailer in the first place, increases the strains and stresses on the
steel *and welds*. *Sometimes they *may* have a tendency to "fishtail"
and dance all over the road, having a tendency to flop the towing
vehicle around with its gyrations. *Under these circumstances you could
very easily lose control of the towing vehicle and wind up in the ditch
- or worse, a river - with the tractor on top of you.

Several of us probably think you should build a trailer to tow behind
your riding lawn mower before you build one to haul an 8N tractor up and
down the road with.

Perhaps, in the mean time you should just buy a good factory built
trailer WITH BRAKES. *;-)

I am admittently a little new to arc welding. ALl my projects have
been with my 130 amp mig Hobart welder.

6 years ago just to do it I build a 12x16 shed entirely out of 2 inch
square tubing. The rood and everyrhing. It has stood up to severe
weather. I welded it with the Hobart and flux core wire.

Using the same welder I have built a tow behind sprayer trailer for my
lawn mower. I welded a side jack to my dad's trailer. Welded his
bushog.

Got mad when vandals messed with my mailbox and made one out of 3 inch
square tubing.

I am sure there were others.

Again, most of this was with mig. I have been practicing with stick.

stryped wrote:

I am admittently a little new to arc welding. ALl my projects have
been with my 130 amp mig Hobart welder.

6 years ago just to do it I build a 12x16 shed entirely out of 2 inch
square tubing. The rood and everyrhing. It has stood up to severe
weather. I welded it with the Hobart and flux core wire.

Using the same welder I have built a tow behind sprayer trailer for my
lawn mower. I welded a side jack to my dad's trailer. Welded his
bushog.

Got mad when vandals messed with my mailbox and made one out of 3 inch
square tubing.

I am sure there were others.

Again, most of this was with mig. I have been practicing with stick.

Stryped,

As someone already stated the mig is probably *not* heavy enough but the
buzz box would be. Get a bit more practice with the arc welder and go
for it. However, you probably should get a good set of plans or get the
two books from Northern Tool and look them over very carefully first.

Yes, you can build it 12 or 14 feet, and I think you'll like it much
better that way. The truck should be plenty heavy. Put dual axles on
it and have brakes at least on the front axle - preferably on *both* axles.

GO FOR IT!

Al

On Apr 20, 6:36*am, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:
I am admittently a little new to arc welding. ALl my projects have
been with my 130 amp mig Hobart welder.

6 years ago just to do it I build a 12x16 shed entirely out of 2 inch
square tubing. The rood and everyrhing. It has stood up to severe
weather. I welded it with the Hobart and flux core wire.

Using the same welder I have built a tow behind sprayer trailer for my
lawn mower. I welded a side jack to my dad's trailer. Welded his
bushog.

Got mad when vandals messed with my mailbox and made one out of 3 inch
square tubing.

I am sure there were others.

Again, most of this was with mig. I have been practicing with stick.

Stryped,

As someone already stated the mig is probably *not* heavy enough but the
buzz box would be. *Get a bit more practice with the arc welder and go
for it. *However, you probably should get a good set of plans or get the
two books from Northern Tool and look them over very carefully first.

Yes, you can build it 12 or 14 feet, and I think you'll like it much
better that way. *The truck should be plenty heavy. *Put dual axles on
it and have brakes at least on the front axle - preferably on *both* axles..

GO FOR IT!

Al- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think I would enjoy it more too but I am having to watch it. I am
wondering at what size/weight it would get using 4x4 tubing where I
could not handle it myself. I only have a small garage to build it in
and would have to set it out when I am done so my wife can park
inside.

How would I flip it over once it is made to determin/weld the axle(s)?

On 2008-04-20, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:


What other projects?

Stryped,

I *think* this is what he was driving at! IF you have not "built" any
other projects you may need to start with something with a bit less
liability risk should something go wrong.

I thought that stryped wanted to build some kind of a lift.

I agree with many remarks that you made.

i

Tell us about some of your welding repairs, especially those that held
up under hard service for a long time.

A trailer takes a real beating up and down the road hitting pot / chug
holes everywhere. A load on the trailer, the only reason for having a
trailer in the first place, increases the strains and stresses on the
steel *and welds*. Sometimes they *may* have a tendency to "fishtail"
and dance all over the road, having a tendency to flop the towing
vehicle around with its gyrations. Under these circumstances you could
very easily lose control of the towing vehicle and wind up in the ditch
- or worse, a river - with the tractor on top of you.

Several of us probably think you should build a trailer to tow behind
your riding lawn mower before you build one to haul an 8N tractor up and
down the road with.

Perhaps, in the mean time you should just buy a good factory built
trailer WITH BRAKES. ;-)

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:54:45 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:


I am admittently a little new to arc welding. ALl my projects have
been with my 130 amp mig Hobart welder.

6 years ago just to do it I build a 12x16 shed entirely out of 2 inch
square tubing. The rood and everyrhing. It has stood up to severe
weather. I welded it with the Hobart and flux core wire.

Using the same welder I have built a tow behind sprayer trailer for my
lawn mower. I welded a side jack to my dad's trailer. Welded his
bushog.

Got mad when vandals messed with my mailbox and made one out of 3 inch
square tubing.

Nothing but? I'll bet that would break their bat!

I am sure there were others.

Again, most of this was with mig. I have been practicing with stick.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

stryped wrote:


I think I would enjoy it more too but I am having to watch it. I am
wondering at what size/weight it would get using 4x4 tubing where I
could not handle it myself. I only have a small garage to build it in
and would have to set it out when I am done so my wife can park
inside.

How would I flip it over once it is made to determin/weld the axle(s)?

You don't happen to have a big patio under a big oak tree do you? Then
you could use a chain fall or come-a-long to lift it and flip it when
needed plus you'd have a fairly smooth surface to lay it out on. You're
going to get real tired real quick of having to move it out of the
garage so your wife can park the care in "your workshop"! ;-)

On 2008-04-21, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:


I think I would enjoy it more too but I am having to watch it. I am
wondering at what size/weight it would get using 4x4 tubing where I
could not handle it myself. I only have a small garage to build it in
and would have to set it out when I am done so my wife can park
inside.

How would I flip it over once it is made to determin/weld the axle(s)?

You don't happen to have a big patio under a big oak tree do you? Then
you could use a chain fall or come-a-long to lift it and flip it when
needed plus you'd have a fairly smooth surface to lay it out on. You're
going to get real tired real quick of having to move it out of the
garage so your wife can park the care in "your workshop"! ;-)

I did it right in my garage using a chain hoist and block. I have pix
of that process here

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...r-Turned-Over/

It was scary, but we tried to be safe (my father in law was helping).

The tree method requires very solid branches...

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Apr 18, 11:01*am, Al Patrick wrote:
stryped wrote:
Been looking at trailers on lots as others have suggested. Most that
have a fold down ramp made of angle iron and expanded metal.

Would there be any detriment to using diamod plate instead of expanded
metal on it? I am assuming there may be some sort of wind turbulance
pulling but am not sure.

If it was solid I could maybe but my 8N on the trailer if I ever
needed to which would be rare.

At $5.00 per gal. gasoline (no. not yet. but wait.) how much wind
resistence do you want? *Assuming this is the RAMPS you are talking
about. *Now, for the bed. *Diamond plate is good. *Expanded metal will
allow much of the mud, etc. to drop through - or come up from the
bottom! *The diamond plate will be easier to sweep off. *Plus, if you're
hauling gravel you'll need to consider the holes in the expanded metal
vs. the size gravel. *You *may* be better off with diamond plate on the
bed. *Expanded metal on the ramps - if anything. *If you have two
individual ramps you may just want the angle iron placed close enough
for whatever tires you plan to run up them.

You can bet gas will be more than $5.

Every pound costs you gas mileage.

Any solid vertical surface will cost you gass mileage.

Expanded mesh is better than solid...but it still costs you in
mileage. The trailers you see with it on the ramps are mainly driven
in town short distances.

Individual ramps are best.

Understand the loads you are planning on using before trying to load.
I have seen more than one trailer crushed by a load that was not meant
to be.

TMT

On Apr 20, 8:44*am, stryped wrote:
How would I flip it over once it is made to determin/weld the axle(s)?

Add a bolt or ball receiver or something in the center of the rear
crosspiece. You can use that and the tongue to lift it and rotate it
around its lengthwise axis. When you get stuck in some impossibly
tight place or hung up on a rock you can use a farm jack there to lift
and shove the trailer sideways to get out. My trailer weighs only 400
Lbs and I flip it upside down once a year to spray for rust and grease
the wheel bearings.

If you use a tree branch for lifting, run the rope further up over a
crotch in the main trunk and tie off to the base of that or another
tree. Then the force on the branch will be back toward the trunk
instead of downward and it will be much less likely to break. I've
put large stainless steel eyes and rope cleats in my most useful
trees.

Jim Wilkins

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:a397d161-f18d-4496-
:

You can bet gas will be more than $5.


In some areas of the Peoples' Republik of Kalipornia it's already over
$6.30/gallon.

Every pound costs you gas mileage.


Not so.

The weight is only a minor factor and that only when proceeding from a dead
stop. Once underway, weight, per se, has little, if any, effect upon fuel
economy.

Brake linings are a different matter... GRIN

Any solid vertical surface will cost you gass mileage.


If it's taller than the height of the tow vehicle's body: airflow over the
tow vehicle's body will continue over the trailer's top if it's lower or
equal in height to the rear of the tow vehicle.

An exception occurs when there's a stiff tailwind: on one 400-mile stretch
with my fifth-wheel [12'9" tall x 8.5" wide x 37' 10" long and 7 tons
weight] my fuel economy was the same as it would have been if I hadn't been
towing thanks to a 60 MPH tailwind. grin

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:42:00 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:a397d161-f18d-4496-
:

You can bet gas will be more than $5.


In some areas of the Peoples' Republik of Kalipornia it's already over
$6.30/gallon.

When you buy gas at a marina, or at a golf course gas station..expect
it to be almost double the price of everywhere else.

Its been that way since gas became the #1 fuel.

Gas in California for 87 octane, averages about $3.75 at the moment. A
bit cheaper at AM-PM and so forth.


Every pound costs you gas mileage.


Not so.

The weight is only a minor factor and that only when proceeding from a dead
stop. Once underway, weight, per se, has little, if any, effect upon fuel
economy.

Brake linings are a different matter... GRIN

Any solid vertical surface will cost you gass mileage.


If it's taller than the height of the tow vehicle's body: airflow over the
tow vehicle's body will continue over the trailer's top if it's lower or
equal in height to the rear of the tow vehicle.

An exception occurs when there's a stiff tailwind: on one 400-mile stretch
with my fifth-wheel [12'9" tall x 8.5" wide x 37' 10" long and 7 tons
weight] my fuel economy was the same as it would have been if I hadn't been
towing thanks to a 60 MPH tailwind. grin



"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:42:00 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote in
news:a397d161-f18d-4496-
:

You can bet gas will be more than $5.


In some areas of the Peoples' Republik of Kalipornia it's already
over $6.30/gallon.

When you buy gas at a marina, or at a golf course gas station..expect
it to be almost double the price of everywhere else.

Its been that way since gas became the #1 fuel.

Gas in California for 87 octane, averages about $3.75 at the moment. A
bit cheaper at AM-PM and so forth.

I just paid $4.12 at the Shell station on Rye Canyon and I-5.

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:49:51 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:42:00 GMT, "RAM³"
wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote in
news:a397d161-f18d-4496-
:

You can bet gas will be more than $5.


In some areas of the Peoples' Republik of Kalipornia it's already
over $6.30/gallon.

When you buy gas at a marina, or at a golf course gas station..expect
it to be almost double the price of everywhere else.

Its been that way since gas became the #1 fuel.

Gas in California for 87 octane, averages about $3.75 at the moment. A
bit cheaper at AM-PM and so forth.

I just paid $4.12 at the Shell station on Rye Canyon and I-5.


For what grade?

And did you drive a mile or so off the freeway and price gas at a
station noted to be cheaper than the usually high priced Shell fuel?

I bought AMPM 87 octane on Lyons Ave Saturday..for $3.89

Its about a mile off the freeway. Near one of my favorite 99c stores

Perhaps this may be of help?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/
http://www.aaa.com/scripts/WebObject...l%2findex.aspx

I should mention that I paid $3.68 at the AM-PM on Central Ave at
Mission Blvd in Ontario the day before.

Gas prices are exceptionally variable in California.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

Gunner Asch wrote in
:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:42:00 GMT, "RAMü"
wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote in
news:a397d161-f18d-4496-
:

You can bet gas will be more than $5.


In some areas of the Peoples' Republik of Kalipornia it's already over
$6.30/gallon.

When you buy gas at a marina, or at a golf course gas station..expect
it to be almost double the price of everywhere else.

Its been that way since gas became the #1 fuel.

Gas in California for 87 octane, averages about $3.75 at the moment. A
bit cheaper at AM-PM and so forth.


Every pound costs you gas mileage.


Not so.

The weight is only a minor factor and that only when proceeding from a
dead stop. Once underway, weight, per se, has little, if any, effect
upon fuel economy.

Brake linings are a different matter... GRIN

Any solid vertical surface will cost you gass mileage.


If it's taller than the height of the tow vehicle's body: airflow over
the tow vehicle's body will continue over the trailer's top if it's
lower or equal in height to the rear of the tow vehicle.

An exception occurs when there's a stiff tailwind: on one 400-mile
stretch with my fifth-wheel [12'9" tall x 8.5" wide x 37' 10" long and
7 tons weight] my fuel economy was the same as it would have been if I
hadn't been towing thanks to a 60 MPH tailwind. grin



This particular station was well up the coast - right in the middle of
the Big Sur. G

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner Asch
wrote on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:34:31 -0700
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

Its been that way since gas became the #1 fuel.

Gas in California for 87 octane, averages about $3.75 at the moment. A
bit cheaper at AM-PM and so forth.

I just paid $4.12 at the Shell station on Rye Canyon and I-5.


For what grade?

And did you drive a mile or so off the freeway and price gas at a
station noted to be cheaper than the usually high priced Shell fuel?

I bought AMPM 87 octane on Lyons Ave Saturday..for $3.89

Its about a mile off the freeway. Near one of my favorite 99c stores

Perhaps this may be of help?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/
http://www.aaa.com/scripts/WebObject...l%2findex.aspx

I should mention that I paid $3.68 at the AM-PM on Central Ave at
Mission Blvd in Ontario the day before.

Gas prices are exceptionally variable in California.

I've a costco membership, so I'll scope out where the Costco gas
stations are, especially on long trips. I figure driving a mile or so
off the freeway to save ~10 to 20 cents a gallon is a deal, especially
when tanking up.

If I get a Motorcycle again, I'll be a whole lot less picky. I
figured out last time, it wasn't worth the effort to save a few cents
on a fill up of at most two gallons.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:58:32 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

If I get a Motorcycle again, I'll be a whole lot less picky. I
figured out last time, it wasn't worth the effort to save a few cents
on a fill up of at most two gallons.

It still hurts like hell when a $10 spot won't fill it up...

First road bike was a 1976 Honda 550-4cyl ~34 mpg. The
second one was a 1978 Honda 550-4cyl ~38 mpg. My current
bike is a 1986 Honda Magna VF700C. It will get 48 mpg if I
just pussy-foot around with it. Pull out on the highway and
crank it up to 70 mph and it will get ~43 mpg.

You would be better off getting a Toyota Yaris if you want
good gas mileage. At least you can still use that during the
winter...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Apr 20, 9:37*pm, Ignoramus22545 ignoramus22...@NOSPAM.
22545.invalid wrote:
On 2008-04-21, Al Patrick wrote:





stryped wrote:

I think I would enjoy it more too but I am having to watch it. I am
wondering at what size/weight it would get using 4x4 tubing where I
could not handle it myself. I only have a small garage to build it in
and would have to set it out when I am done so my wife can park
inside.

How would I flip it over once it is made to determin/weld the axle(s)?

You don't happen to have a big patio under a big oak tree do you? *Then
you could use a chain fall or come-a-long to lift it and flip it when
needed plus you'd have a fairly smooth surface to lay it out on. *You're
going to get real tired real quick of having to move it out of the
garage so your wife can park the care in "your workshop"! *;-)

I did it right in my garage using a chain hoist and block. I have pix
of that process here

* *http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...105A2-Bed/07-T...

It was scary, but we tried to be safe (my father in law was helping).

The tree method requires very solid branches...

--
* *Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
* * * to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
* * * *from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
* * * * *more readers you will need to find a different means of
* * * * * * * * * * * *posting on Usenet.
* * * * * * * * * *http://improve-usenet.org/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey there,

Why did you install angle over the frame and mount your axle mount on
that? for strength? Is there angle all the way around that area?

Did you have problems cutting the correct angle for the "A" frame?
What about having everythign square with the "through" design?

On 2008-04-22, stryped wrote:
You don't happen to have a big patio under a big oak tree do you? •£ÄThen
you could use a chain fall or come-a-long to lift it and flip it when
needed plus you'd have a fairly smooth surface to lay it out on. •£ÄYou're
going to get real tired real quick of having to move it out of the
garage so your wife can park the care in "your workshop"! •£Ä;-)

I did it right in my garage using a chain hoist and block. I have pix
of that process here

•£Ä •£Ähttp://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...105A2-Bed/07-T...

It was scary, but we tried to be safe (my father in law was helping).

The tree method requires very solid branches...


- Show quoted text -

Hey there,

Why did you install angle over the frame and mount your axle mount on
that? for strength? Is there angle all the way around that area?

I wanted to distribute the stress from mounts, in case if I hit a bump
or something. The angle is for distributing that stress across a
larger area.

Did you have problems cutting the correct angle for the "A" frame?

No problems, I used an abrasive saw. One angle was slightly wrong and
I had to cut off one extra tiny bit. I am not any kind of an expert on
"pipefitting" or anything of the sort. It was easy, as I marked the
cuts by placing the 4x2 right above where it would eventually go, and
used the frame sort of as a ruler.

What about having everythign square with the "through" design?

I do not understand. Sorry/

--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Apr 22, 1:28*pm, Ignoramus4930
wrote:
On 2008-04-22, stryped wrote:





You don't happen to have a big patio under a big oak tree do you? •£ÄThen
you could use a chain fall or come-a-long to lift it and flip it when
needed plus you'd have a fairly smooth surface to lay it out on. •£ÄYou're
going to get real tired real quick of having to move it out of the
garage so your wife can park the care in "your workshop"! •£Ä;-)

I did it right in my garage using a chain hoist and block. I have pix
of that process here

•£Ä •£Ähttp://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...105A2-Bed/07-T...

It was scary, but we tried to be safe (my father in law was helping).

The tree method requires very solid branches...

- Show quoted text -

Hey there,

Why did you install angle over the frame and mount your axle mount on
that? for strength? Is there angle all the way around that area?

I wanted to distribute the stress from mounts, in case if I hit a bump
or something. The angle is for distributing that stress across a
larger area.

Did you have problems cutting the correct angle for the "A" frame?

No problems, I used an abrasive saw. One angle was slightly wrong and
I had to cut off one extra tiny bit. I am not any kind of an expert on
"pipefitting" or anything of the sort. It was easy, as I marked the
cuts by placing the 4x2 right above where it would eventually go, and
used the frame sort of as a ruler.

What about having everythign square with the "through" design?

I do not understand. Sorry/

--
* *Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
* * * to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
* * * *from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
* * * * *more readers you will need to find a different means of
* * * * * * * * * * * *posting on Usenet.
* * * * * * * * * *http://improve-usenet.org/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I meant the center tube I am assuming you had to cut the front of the
ptrailer into two piecs so you can weld it to the center tube. Was it
hard to get everythign lined up and square?

On Apr 22, 1:28*pm, Ignoramus4930
wrote:
On 2008-04-22, stryped wrote:





You don't happen to have a big patio under a big oak tree do you? •£ÄThen
you could use a chain fall or come-a-long to lift it and flip it when
needed plus you'd have a fairly smooth surface to lay it out on. •£ÄYou're
going to get real tired real quick of having to move it out of the
garage so your wife can park the care in "your workshop"! •£Ä;-)

I did it right in my garage using a chain hoist and block. I have pix
of that process here

•£Ä •£Ähttp://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...105A2-Bed/07-T...

It was scary, but we tried to be safe (my father in law was helping).

The tree method requires very solid branches...

- Show quoted text -

Hey there,

Why did you install angle over the frame and mount your axle mount on
that? for strength? Is there angle all the way around that area?

I wanted to distribute the stress from mounts, in case if I hit a bump
or something. The angle is for distributing that stress across a
larger area.

Did you have problems cutting the correct angle for the "A" frame?

No problems, I used an abrasive saw. One angle was slightly wrong and
I had to cut off one extra tiny bit. I am not any kind of an expert on
"pipefitting" or anything of the sort. It was easy, as I marked the
cuts by placing the 4x2 right above where it would eventually go, and
used the frame sort of as a ruler.

What about having everythign square with the "through" design?

I do not understand. Sorry/

--
* *Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
* * * to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
* * * *from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
* * * * *more readers you will need to find a different means of
* * * * * * * * * * * *posting on Usenet.
* * * * * * * * * *http://improve-usenet.org/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is there just one angle piece or two?

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:01:49 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:58:32 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

If I get a Motorcycle again, I'll be a whole lot less picky. I
figured out last time, it wasn't worth the effort to save a few cents
on a fill up of at most two gallons.

It still hurts like hell when a $10 spot won't fill it up...

First road bike was a 1976 Honda 550-4cyl ~34 mpg. The
second one was a 1978 Honda 550-4cyl ~38 mpg. My current
bike is a 1986 Honda Magna VF700C. It will get 48 mpg if I
just pussy-foot around with it. Pull out on the highway and
crank it up to 70 mph and it will get ~43 mpg.

You would be better off getting a Toyota Yaris if you want
good gas mileage. At least you can still use that during the
winter...
Two years ago we took our '05 Echo on a three week trip, no effort at
mileage, AC on etc. and covered 4200+ kilometers on 251litres of gas
for47.8 miles per imp gallon (39.8/ USG)
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Leon Fisk
wrote on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:01:49 -0400 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

It still hurts like hell when a $10 spot won't fill it up...

First road bike was a 1976 Honda 550-4cyl ~34 mpg. The
second one was a 1978 Honda 550-4cyl ~38 mpg. My current
bike is a 1986 Honda Magna VF700C. It will get 48 mpg if I
just pussy-foot around with it. Pull out on the highway and
crank it up to 70 mph and it will get ~43 mpg.

You would be better off getting a Toyota Yaris if you want
good gas mileage. At least you can still use that during the
winter...

Up here, we don't get a lot of snow, so running a bike is easier.
I am a bit concerned about a graveled road on a hillside. Especially
headed downhill ...
But if this works out, I'll be able to give directions which
include "continue past the end of the paved road... then turn off the
gravel road ..."

Anyway, I had a Honda 350, and it got 50 mpg, till I got it tuned
up, and then it was 60. But I forgot to lock the forks (after coming
home in the cold and the wet) and "gave up riding bikes for Lent."
when it was stolen.


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:43:54 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

Two years ago we took our '05 Echo on a three week trip, no effort at
mileage, AC on etc. and covered 4200+ kilometers on 251litres of gas
for47.8 miles per imp gallon (39.8/ USG)

If I remember correctly the Echo was phased-out and replaced
by the Yaris. I don't know if I could get used to the funky
instrument cluster in the center of the dash though.

But if I was in the market for a vehicle I would seriously
check out the Yaris. Getting 40 mpg is hard to beat. Another
new vehicle that looks interesting is the BMW Mini-Cooper
Clubman. See:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121869

The base price is kind of high though...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:42:57 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:43:54 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

Two years ago we took our '05 Echo on a three week trip, no effort at
mileage, AC on etc. and covered 4200+ kilometers on 251litres of gas
for47.8 miles per imp gallon (39.8/ USG)

If I remember correctly the Echo was phased-out and replaced
by the Yaris. I don't know if I could get used to the funky
instrument cluster in the center of the dash though.

I was discussing that with a mechanic friend today as he showed me his
new project car ( 1925(?) four door, number matched, original paint,
model "T"). I learned to drive on a centre cluster Model "A", and, to
me, that is the proper place, out of the line of site, but where you
should get used to looking when faced with persistent high beams.
Yes, they did chop off the "boot" in '06 and revert to the European
name, but brought back the "boot" in '07 when they discovered that
here in North America, we have more parking space, not like senior son
in Walthamstow, where there is no such thing as double parked. On his
"Close", a double parked car is automatically triple parked, blocking
the street from "pavement" to "pavement"

But if I was in the market for a vehicle I would seriously
check out the Yaris. Getting 40 mpg is hard to beat. Another
new vehicle that looks interesting is the BMW Mini-Cooper
Clubman. See:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=121869

The base price is kind of high though...
Last base price with which I am totally familiar was the '67 Valiant
at $2150.00. I managed to get mine up to $2500.00, of course this was
before SWMBO discovered Air Conditioning. Since then, I have let her
take care of the budget.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Two years ago we took our '05 Echo on a three week trip, no effort at
mileage, AC on etc. and covered 4200+ kilometers on 251litres of gas
for47.8 miles per imp gallon (39.8/ USG)

If I remember correctly the Echo was phased-out and replaced
by the Yaris. I don't know if I could get used to the funky
instrument cluster in the center of the dash though.

But if I was in the market for a vehicle I would seriously
check out the Yaris. Getting 40 mpg is hard to beat. Another
new vehicle that looks interesting is the BMW Mini-Cooper
Clubman. See:


You sure you don't want a nice SUV? How about a Chevy Yukon or a Ford
Excursion for you to drive around town by yourself and run errands with,
they're nice. And I see people driving similar vehicles all the time. One
person per vehicle. It's not wasteful or stupid. It's the American way to do
things. It's our right to use all the oil we want.

Hawke