I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

"Ignoramus25581"
wrote in
message
...
I think that it is insane and would not do it
or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two
pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton
pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford
F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not
breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

I've hauled more than that on a F-350 dually
flatbed. What's the max GVW tag on
the truck say? Depending on how it's equipped,
the max GVW on a F-350 can
be 10,000+. Get as much of the load as
possible forward in the bed----nothing
screws up a pleasant drive more than a tail
heavy load.

Ignoramus25581 fired this volley in
:

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

Iggy, I've seen guys haul full pallets in a 150. The axles were on the
spring stops, and I'm sure they fried their rear axle bearings before
they got home... but they got out of the yard!

I routinely put 1900lb of concrete blocks in my little 1000lb limit
utility trailer, and it never even grunts.

LLoyd

Ignoramus25581 wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

The 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton designations are pretty meaningless these days.
Check the actual ratings label on the door of the truck for the real
ratings. A 1T SRW and DRW have different capacities for example, though
they are both "1T" trucks. The door label will have the GVWR and axle
ratings.

In this particular case, I thin 5,000# is pushing it a bit. If the trip
is short it will probably be fine even if it is over GVWR since the
components regularly deal with shock loads higher than that. If it's a
DRW the cargo capacity is probably around 3k#-4k#, somewhat less for
SRW. Also check if the tires are of an appropriate load range, sometimes
people put tires on for looks, not load and they may not be up to the
job. Personally, I'd put one pallet in the truck and the other on a
trailer.

On 2008-03-12, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus25581 wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

The 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton designations are pretty meaningless these days.
Check the actual ratings label on the door of the truck for the real
ratings. A 1T SRW and DRW have different capacities for example, though
they are both "1T" trucks. The door label will have the GVWR and axle
ratings.

In this particular case, I thin 5,000# is pushing it a bit. If the trip
is short it will probably be fine even if it is over GVWR since the
components regularly deal with shock loads higher than that. If it's a
DRW the cargo capacity is probably around 3k#-4k#, somewhat less for
SRW. Also check if the tires are of an appropriate load range, sometimes
people put tires on for looks, not load and they may not be up to the
job. Personally, I'd put one pallet in the truck and the other on a
trailer.

Thanks. Like I said, it was not my truck and not my idea. I could just
put both pallets on my trailer id I was the person to move it.

The images that ran through my head were wheels falling off, and such.

If I was in his place, without a trailer, I would just make two trips.

i

Ignoramus25581 wrote:

On 2008-03-12, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus25581 wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

The 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton designations are pretty meaningless these days.
Check the actual ratings label on the door of the truck for the real
ratings. A 1T SRW and DRW have different capacities for example, though
they are both "1T" trucks. The door label will have the GVWR and axle
ratings.

In this particular case, I thin 5,000# is pushing it a bit. If the trip
is short it will probably be fine even if it is over GVWR since the
components regularly deal with shock loads higher than that. If it's a
DRW the cargo capacity is probably around 3k#-4k#, somewhat less for
SRW. Also check if the tires are of an appropriate load range, sometimes
people put tires on for looks, not load and they may not be up to the
job. Personally, I'd put one pallet in the truck and the other on a
trailer.

Thanks. Like I said, it was not my truck and not my idea. I could just
put both pallets on my trailer id I was the person to move it.

The images that ran through my head were wheels falling off, and such.

If I was in his place, without a trailer, I would just make two trips.

i

My truck is a 3500 DRW, it's curb weight is just about 7,000# and it's
GVWR is 10,000# so off the bat it has 3,000# cargo capacity. This isn't
all there is to it either though, because the 10,000# rating is really
bogus to keep it out of the commercial class that starts at 10,001#. The
actual axle ratings total 12,000#, so while you might be riding on the
overload springs, with 5,000# of reasonably distributed cargo and sane
driving, the wheels wouldn't be falling off.

"Pete C." wrote:

Ignoramus25581 wrote:

On 2008-03-12, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus25581 wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

The 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton designations are pretty meaningless these days.
Check the actual ratings label on the door of the truck for the real
ratings. A 1T SRW and DRW have different capacities for example, though
they are both "1T" trucks. The door label will have the GVWR and axle
ratings.

In this particular case, I thin 5,000# is pushing it a bit. If the trip
is short it will probably be fine even if it is over GVWR since the
components regularly deal with shock loads higher than that. If it's a
DRW the cargo capacity is probably around 3k#-4k#, somewhat less for
SRW. Also check if the tires are of an appropriate load range, sometimes
people put tires on for looks, not load and they may not be up to the
job. Personally, I'd put one pallet in the truck and the other on a
trailer.

Thanks. Like I said, it was not my truck and not my idea. I could just
put both pallets on my trailer id I was the person to move it.

The images that ran through my head were wheels falling off, and such.

If I was in his place, without a trailer, I would just make two trips.

i

My truck is a 3500 DRW, it's curb weight is just about 7,000# and it's
GVWR is 10,000# so off the bat it has 3,000# cargo capacity. This isn't
all there is to it either though, because the 10,000# rating is really
bogus to keep it out of the commercial class that starts at 10,001#. The
actual axle ratings total 12,000#, so while you might be riding on the
overload springs, with 5,000# of reasonably distributed cargo and sane
driving, the wheels wouldn't be falling off.

I forgot to add:

Operating over weight ratings is a bad thing for a commercial vehicle
which is subject to weigh stations, more regulations and fines.

Operating over GVW with a private non-commercial vehicle, while not a
great thing, isn't a huge issue and is unfortunately very common with
RVs, though RVers are getting more attentive to such things and visiting
the truck scales more frequently to verify their weights.

I worked at a place in the '50's that had a 2 1/2 ton stake body truck
and a 2 1/2 ton van body truck. We regularly hauled 16,000 about 20
miles to another town, off-loaded, reloaded and back we came. At least
once a day. I don't ever remember any suspension problems.

I figure (could be wrong), that the (1 ton) rating means that the thing
has to be strong enough to handle one ton under the worst of conditions
and at the highest legal speeds, around the worst corners possible to
navigate. If I load it more, I can drive slower, watch for bumps, etc..

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------

Ignoramus25581 wrote:
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

On Mar 12, 10:02*am, Ignoramus25581 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25581.invalid wrote:
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

You can do it but if you had any doubts as to the intelligence of the
individual allowing it to occur, you now have your answer...they are
very, very stupid.

Just because a truck lets you doesn't mean you go ahead and do it.

Have an accident with that kind of load that results in a death or
injury and watch the lawyers take every cent you and your family has.

TMT

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i
The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

On Mar 12, 1:36*pm, Dan@ (Dan ) wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581





wrote:
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

now there you go being a spoil sport...when one overloads a truck they
never worry about stopping..

TMT

"Ignoramus25581" wrote in message
...
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.


Iggi, I'm one of those insane idiots. Have a 1/2 ton Chevy Silverado.
Several times I've picked up a pallet (much easier to load) of concrete
pre-mix at home depot.
49 bags, 80 lbs. each and I weigh 280 lbs. ±.

Total weight 4,200 lbs. 18 miles of driving over back roads at 25 mph.
Have done it several times. Not worried about the tires (10ply) but pray
and pray for the axle.

Ivan Vegvary

Dan wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i
The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

I have carried 4 yards of gravel in a 1 ton truck. That's about 5000
pounds. I only went about 12 miles on back streets, and went slow.

I did it twice. Got away with it. The truck remained fine for the next
4 years, then the owner (yes, I borrowed it) sold it.

Grant

Ignoramus25581 wrote:
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

I have hauled 3700 lbs in my non-dually gas 1996 F350.
Never knew it was back there.

On 2008-03-12, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

"Ignoramus25581" wrote in message
...
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.


Iggi, I'm one of those insane idiots. Have a 1/2 ton Chevy Silverado.
Several times I've picked up a pallet (much easier to load) of concrete
pre-mix at home depot.
49 bags, 80 lbs. each and I weigh 280 lbs. ±.

Total weight 4,200 lbs. 18 miles of driving over back roads at 25 mph.
Have done it several times. Not worried about the tires (10ply) but pray
and pray for the axle.

Wow, you guys are brave. ANYWAY, the take home lesson here is that I
should shut up and not go out of my way to prevent that guy from doing
what he wants.

i

"Ignoramus25581" wrote in message
...
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???



The big question is what does the door sticker give for GVRW, the weight the
truck empty, then do the math.
Most 1/2 ton pickups will easily haul 1500 lbs. Most 3/4 ton pickups will
haul close to 3000 lbs. A one ton should easily haul. 4000 lbs, better if
you can get the weight forward.
A few years back I worked for a chemical company and drove a one ton Chevy
van. The door sticker was 9800 lbs gross IIRC. The van weighed ~6000 lbs.
The difference is 3800 lbs. I ran from Minneapolis, to Fargo ND one time
with over 5000 lbs in the back. Now I admit, I felt it was over loaded, but
I aired up the tires, and ran the speed limit for the 250 miles.
As far as I am concerned a one ton dually should handle 5000 lbs just fine.
For what ever it is worth, Chevy rates a 2008 3500 dually at 5100 lb
payload.
Greg

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:



I've hauled 1500lbs of soil in a trailer. So what?

I was towing it with a 400cc Kawasaki motorcycle! Hills were a bit tricky :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM

Greg O wrote:
"Ignoramus25581" wrote in message
...
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???



The big question is what does the door sticker give for GVRW, the weight
the truck empty, then do the math.
Most 1/2 ton pickups will easily haul 1500 lbs. Most 3/4 ton pickups
will haul close to 3000 lbs. A one ton should easily haul. 4000 lbs,
better if you can get the weight forward.
A few years back I worked for a chemical company and drove a one ton
Chevy van. The door sticker was 9800 lbs gross IIRC. The van weighed
~6000 lbs. The difference is 3800 lbs. I ran from Minneapolis, to Fargo
ND one time with over 5000 lbs in the back. Now I admit, I felt it was
over loaded, but I aired up the tires, and ran the speed limit for the
250 miles.
As far as I am concerned a one ton dually should handle 5000 lbs just
fine.
For what ever it is worth, Chevy rates a 2008 3500 dually at 5100 lb
payload.

I'd say the terrain and road conditions make
a difference as well. 250 miles flat and level
freeway is one thing, 20 miles of dirt logging
road would be quite another.

Operating over GVW with a private non-commercial vehicle, while not a
great thing, isn't a huge issue and is unfortunately very common with
RVs, though RVers are getting more attentive to such things and visiting
the truck scales more frequently to verify their weights.

Not true, atleast in Oregon.
A pickup that is loaded such that it's GVW is over 8000# can be stopped and
the driver cited if the truck only has passenger car plates, like 90% do.
When the average 3/4 or 1 ton p/u weighs between 6000 and 7000 lbs, that
doesn't allow much for a legal load. This doesn't count a trailer, just the
weight of the truck, and only if it has passenger plates.
Ask me how I know this.
Paul

42 wrote:




Operating over GVW with a private non-commercial vehicle, while not a
great thing, isn't a huge issue and is unfortunately very common with
RVs, though RVers are getting more attentive to such things and visiting
the truck scales more frequently to verify their weights.

Not true, atleast in Oregon.
A pickup that is loaded such that it's GVW is over 8000# can be stopped and
the driver cited if the truck only has passenger car plates, like 90% do.
When the average 3/4 or 1 ton p/u weighs between 6000 and 7000 lbs, that
doesn't allow much for a legal load. This doesn't count a trailer, just the
weight of the truck, and only if it has passenger plates.
Ask me how I know this.
Paul

So fix the ridiculous law behind that. A non-commercial vehicle is a
non-commercial vehicle regardless of weight.

On Mar 12, 4:42*pm, Ignoramus25581 ignoramus25...@NOSPAM.
25581.invalid wrote:
On 2008-03-12, Ivan Vegvary wrote:



"Ignoramus25581" wrote in message
m...
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

Iggi, I'm one of those insane idiots. *Have a 1/2 ton Chevy Silverado.
Several times I've picked up a pallet (much easier to load) of concrete
pre-mix at home depot.
49 bags, 80 lbs. each and I weigh 280 lbs. ±.

Total weight 4,200 lbs. *18 miles of driving over back roads at 25 mph..
Have done it several times. *Not worried about the tires (10ply) but pray
and pray for the axle.

Wow, you guys are brave. ANYWAY, the take home lesson here is that I
should shut up and not go out of my way to prevent that guy from doing
what he wants.

i

Actually trying to tell stupid people that they are doing something
stupid is time wasted.

What you do not want to do is to help them load or tie the load
down...if an accident occurs the lawyers cast a wide net and you could
be sued along with Mr. Stupid who was driving.

And oh yeah....let the stupid one with the illlegal load get a
headstart...you don't want to be following them if an accident
happens...scraping up blood and guts gets old when it is some young
family the idiot took out..

TMT

On Mar 12, 6:06*pm, "42" wrote:
Operating over GVW with a private non-commercial vehicle, while not a
great thing, isn't a huge issue and is unfortunately very common with
RVs, though RVers are getting more attentive to such things and visiting
the truck scales more frequently to verify their weights.

Not true, atleast in Oregon.
A pickup that is loaded such that it's GVW is over 8000# can be stopped and
the driver cited if the truck only has passenger car plates, like 90% do.
When the average 3/4 or 1 ton p/u weighs between 6000 and 7000 lbs, that
doesn't allow much for a legal load. This doesn't count a trailer, just the
weight of the truck, and only if it has passenger plates.
Ask me how I know this.
Paul

LOL...was the cop understanding?

I am an advocate of seizing vehicles for stupidity.

It would make for much safer roads...fewer drugs, alcohol and
overloaded death wagons.

TMT

"Pete C." wrote in message
t...

42 wrote:




Operating over GVW with a private non-commercial vehicle, while not a
great thing, isn't a huge issue and is unfortunately very common with
RVs, though RVers are getting more attentive to such things and
visiting
the truck scales more frequently to verify their weights.

Not true, atleast in Oregon.
A pickup that is loaded such that it's GVW is over 8000# can be stopped
and
the driver cited if the truck only has passenger car plates, like 90% do.
When the average 3/4 or 1 ton p/u weighs between 6000 and 7000 lbs, that
doesn't allow much for a legal load. This doesn't count a trailer, just
the
weight of the truck, and only if it has passenger plates.
Ask me how I know this.
Paul

So fix the ridiculous law behind that. A non-commercial vehicle is a
non-commercial vehicle regardless of weight.

Like that's going to happen. We're talking Oregon here. Too many liberal
democrats driving Beemers and Volvos to get anything rational done in the
legislature.

"Ignoramus25581" wrote in message
...
I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

IIRC, my Dodge 2500 is rated for 6,000 in the bed. RTFM and it should be in
there. Just go slow!

Steve

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???
i

Is this guy religiously opposed to making two trips or something?
Advise him to make a separate trip for each pallet and you have
legally exonerated yourself from any liability if he f's up and kills
someone.
Dave

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i

It will probably work, if the front wheels stay on the ground. In this
part of the world the criteria is "will it go up the hill?" if it does
you can probably put on a little more.

I have even seen trucks with wooden blocks bolted to the frame so that
when you had the truck fully loaded the frame didn't sit all the way
down on the axles - might break a spring bending it backwards...


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .

I'd say the terrain and road conditions make
a difference as well. 250 miles flat and level
freeway is one thing, 20 miles of dirt logging
road would be quite another.

I would say the truck would handle the load fine on either road.
It is not like you would be driving 75 MPH on a logging road!
Greg

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:21:16 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Dan wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i
The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.
Not true at all.

Dan wrote:

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

Not true at all.

Yes, it is true, and it has been proven numerous times in actual
testing. Empty pickups have terrible weight distribution and the
addition of cargo in the rear greatly improves the weight distribution
and braking traction available from the rear wheels. Pretty much every
test ever done on pickup truck braking has shown shorter stopping
distances when significant cargo was placed in the bed.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:07:17 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Dan@
(Dan ) quickly quoth:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:21:16 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Dan wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i
The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.
Not true at all.

Seeing as 65-70% of braking happens at the front wheels, I tend to
agree with you, Dan. Some additional traction is provided, but not
much on an emergency stop. All that weight goes away from the rear
axle. Additionally, any traction gained is lost when going around a
corner at any speed, when centripetal ("centrifugal" to you old dogs
forces take over, trying to break the springs and send the truck
off the road upside down.

--
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on
her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even
the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve
of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-- Thomas Jefferson

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:47:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Dan wrote:

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

Not true at all.

Yes, it is true, and it has been proven numerous times in actual
testing. Empty pickups have terrible weight distribution and the
addition of cargo in the rear greatly improves the weight distribution
and braking traction available from the rear wheels. Pretty much every
test ever done on pickup truck braking has shown shorter stopping
distances when significant cargo was placed in the bed.

Cites, please? The advantage pretty much goes away when the weight
shifts as the front brakes grab and the front end dives.

--
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on
her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even
the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve
of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:47:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Dan wrote:

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

Not true at all.

Yes, it is true, and it has been proven numerous times in actual
testing. Empty pickups have terrible weight distribution and the
addition of cargo in the rear greatly improves the weight distribution
and braking traction available from the rear wheels. Pretty much every
test ever done on pickup truck braking has shown shorter stopping
distances when significant cargo was placed in the bed.

Cites, please? The advantage pretty much goes away when the weight
shifts as the front brakes grab and the front end dives.

Dig around on the sites of any group that does auto testing, popular
mechanics, motorweek, probably even consumer reports.

Weight shifts to the front with or without cargo under heavy braking,
and any cargo weight in the rear still adds traction weight over no
cargo. Stopping distances are always shorter for a pickup when a camper
is loaded for example.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:33:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:47:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Dan wrote:

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

Not true at all.

Yes, it is true, and it has been proven numerous times in actual
testing. Empty pickups have terrible weight distribution and the
addition of cargo in the rear greatly improves the weight distribution
and braking traction available from the rear wheels. Pretty much every
test ever done on pickup truck braking has shown shorter stopping
distances when significant cargo was placed in the bed.

Cites, please? The advantage pretty much goes away when the weight
shifts as the front brakes grab and the front end dives.

Dig around on the sites of any group that does auto testing, popular
mechanics, motorweek, probably even consumer reports.

Weight shifts to the front with or without cargo under heavy braking,
and any cargo weight in the rear still adds traction weight over no
cargo. Stopping distances are always shorter for a pickup when a camper
is loaded for example.

Again you offer statements without proof. Cites? I spent a few
minutes and didn't find it.


--
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on
her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even
the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve
of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:33:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:47:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Dan wrote:

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with
more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

Not true at all.

Yes, it is true, and it has been proven numerous times in actual
testing. Empty pickups have terrible weight distribution and the
addition of cargo in the rear greatly improves the weight distribution
and braking traction available from the rear wheels. Pretty much every
test ever done on pickup truck braking has shown shorter stopping
distances when significant cargo was placed in the bed.

Cites, please? The advantage pretty much goes away when the weight
shifts as the front brakes grab and the front end dives.

Dig around on the sites of any group that does auto testing, popular
mechanics, motorweek, probably even consumer reports.

Weight shifts to the front with or without cargo under heavy braking,
and any cargo weight in the rear still adds traction weight over no
cargo. Stopping distances are always shorter for a pickup when a camper
is loaded for example.

Again you offer statements without proof. Cites? I spent a few
minutes and didn't find it.

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGui...r=New#sa fety

"A pickup truck's typically lopsided weight distribution is an inherent
shortcoming. When the cargo box is empty, most of the weight is in the
front - yet the drive wheels are in the rear. (For the purposes of this
safety examination, all pickup trucks have rear-wheel drive as a base. The
all-wheel-drive Honda Ridgeline is a notable exception.) This requires the
lighter end to push the heavier end, which leads easily to fishtailing on
slick road surfaces. The remedies are far from perfect. Adding weight to the
cargo floor above the rear axle can help, but it requires foresight. The
added weight can either improve braking or extend the stopping distance,
depending in part on the road surface; one can't predict which."

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:33:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:47:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Dan wrote:

The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

Not true at all.

Yes, it is true, and it has been proven numerous times in actual
testing. Empty pickups have terrible weight distribution and the
addition of cargo in the rear greatly improves the weight distribution
and braking traction available from the rear wheels. Pretty much every
test ever done on pickup truck braking has shown shorter stopping
distances when significant cargo was placed in the bed.

Cites, please? The advantage pretty much goes away when the weight
shifts as the front brakes grab and the front end dives.

Dig around on the sites of any group that does auto testing, popular
mechanics, motorweek, probably even consumer reports.

Weight shifts to the front with or without cargo under heavy braking,
and any cargo weight in the rear still adds traction weight over no
cargo. Stopping distances are always shorter for a pickup when a camper
is loaded for example.

Again you offer statements without proof. Cites? I spent a few
minutes and didn't find it.

Yea, it doesn't appear many recent reviews are on line for free these
days. Also those more complete reviews were more common in print
magazines pre-Internet. I've certainly read multiple such reviews from
multiple sources.

At any rate, if you don't believe me, it's easy enough to test in a
parking lot with your own truck. Just load a bunch of concrete blocks
for the loaded portion of the test.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:13:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:07:17 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Dan@
(Dan ) quickly quoth:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:21:16 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:


Dan wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:02:06 -0500, Ignoramus25581
wrote:

I think that it is insane and would not do it or approve of it. Here's
the story.

There is a guy who wants to transport two pallets, with the total
weight of 5,000 lbs, in the bed of his one ton pickup truck. (100 bags
of concrete)

5,000 lbs is over 2 tons.

The truck is "one ton" truck like a Ford F-350.

Does he stand any chance at all of not breaking his pickup with a
double rated load???

i
The rating of the brakes also plays in to the GVW.

Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.
Not true at all.

Seeing as 65-70% of braking happens at the front wheels, I tend to
agree with you, Dan. Some additional traction is provided, but not
much on an emergency stop. All that weight goes away from the rear
axle. Additionally, any traction gained is lost when going around a
corner at any speed, when centripetal ("centrifugal" to you old dogs
forces take over, trying to break the springs and send the truck
off the road upside down.


On an empty pickup over 80% of the braking in on the front wheels.
With load proportional braking it is often very close to 100%.
Putting a load on every pickup I've ever owned has improved the
braking up to the point where the added load overpowers the extra
braking capacity. On a half ton truck that generally starts to happen
around one ton or a little better.(depending how forward you can load
the weight)
Two tons on a half ton starts to get pretty hairy. Most half tons do
not have heavy enough tires - and you need to have significant
pressure if you are going to load that heavy. My dad had 2 tons of
fresh cut firedood on his F150 coming down out of the woodlot and
rolled 2 tires right off the rim. I had to go out and jack it up and
put air back in the tires - put them up to about 45psi and sent him,
carefully, on his way home (about 18 miles of good roads) The truck
sat dead level, but very low and he kept it under 50mph. Said he still
had a LITTLE bit of suspension, and the brakes knew he had a load.

Then again, he drove his little Toyota - I think it was a 1 ton
(wonton) but may have been a 3/4 with 2 tons on it virtually all the
time with no issues at all for over 3 years - at highway speeds and
all kinds of roads.(3/4" plywood box full of electrical supplies,
tools, wire, etc for electrical contracting business)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Pete C. wrote:

Weight shifts to the front with or without cargo under heavy braking,
and any cargo weight in the rear still adds traction weight over no
cargo. Stopping distances are always shorter for a pickup when a camper
is loaded for example.

Have you ever driven a pickup loaded with a camper comming down a
good long grade. The brakes fade and if there isn't a good place to
get off youre sunk.
You are full of it.
What you say may be true for the first couple of hundred lbs. but
for the loads this thread is about. Pure and simple.
...lew...

Lew Hartswick wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Weight shifts to the front with or without cargo under heavy braking,
and any cargo weight in the rear still adds traction weight over no
cargo. Stopping distances are always shorter for a pickup when a camper
is loaded for example.

Have you ever driven a pickup loaded with a camper comming down a
good long grade. The brakes fade and if there isn't a good place to
get off youre sunk.
You are full of it.
What you say may be true for the first couple of hundred lbs. but
for the loads this thread is about. Pure and simple.
...lew...

I have driven a 3500 dually pickup loaded with a 2,000# camper, full of
supplies and towing a 10,000# trailer, GCW 20,340# with a full tank of
fuel, 1,700 miles halfway across the country *three times*. My brakes
have *never* faded, nor will they ever fade on a good long grade if you
actually know how to drive and use engine braking.

*You* are full of it.

Dan wrote:


At any rate, if you don't believe me, it's easy enough to test in a
parking lot with your own truck. Just load a bunch of concrete blocks
for the loaded portion of the test.

We were talking about an overloaded vehicle. Of course the brakes are
more efficient at rated GVW as opposed to an empty truck. The brakes
are designed to be 100% efficient at RATED GVW, but we were talking
about 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck and that don't make the brakes
more eficient.
Look at the subject line.
Did you come in the middle off the discussion?

On pretty much every "1 ton" pickup, the listed GVW is *not* the true
rating of the axles, brakes or suspension. Quite often the listed GVW is
10,000# to avoid the additional regs that come into play at 10,001#.
Therefore loading the vehicle past the listed 10,000# does not mean that
it is physically overloaded.