Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck


SteveB wrote:

Thought my Dodge 2500 Cummins short bed would haul more than it will. I
need to bring home two pallets of pavers. One weighs 2800# the other 2600#.
I wouldn't consider two at once because of the loading. They would have to
push one pallet in with the other to get them both on the truck. That would
gouge the bedliner. But I just checked the Dodge site, and payload is
3410#.

Nothing like RTFM.

Steve


There you go, 1.7 ton cargo rating on a "3/4 ton" truck. Like I said,
the old 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton designations are meaningless these days.
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On 2008-03-14, SteveB wrote:
Thought my Dodge 2500 Cummins short bed would haul more than it will. I
need to bring home two pallets of pavers. One weighs 2800# the other 2600#.
I wouldn't consider two at once because of the loading. They would have to
push one pallet in with the other to get them both on the truck. That would
gouge the bedliner. But I just checked the Dodge site, and payload is
3410#.


It probably would not gouge the bedliner. Or you can always throw a
piece of plywood.

I am going to pick up another 4,500 lbs power supply tomorrow, it is
destined to go to scrap after I remove fun parts such as the huge
circuit breaker, water cooled thyristors and Size 6 contactor.

Moments like this, make one appreciative of trailers.

i
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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck

Thought my Dodge 2500 Cummins short bed would haul more than it will. I
need to bring home two pallets of pavers. One weighs 2800# the other 2600#.
I wouldn't consider two at once because of the loading. They would have to
push one pallet in with the other to get them both on the truck. That would
gouge the bedliner. But I just checked the Dodge site, and payload is
3410#.

Nothing like RTFM.

Steve


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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck


"Ignoramus17007" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-14, SteveB wrote:
Thought my Dodge 2500 Cummins short bed would haul more than it will. I
need to bring home two pallets of pavers. One weighs 2800# the other
2600#.
I wouldn't consider two at once because of the loading. They would have
to
push one pallet in with the other to get them both on the truck. That
would
gouge the bedliner. But I just checked the Dodge site, and payload is
3410#.


It probably would not gouge the bedliner. Or you can always throw a
piece of plywood.

I am going to pick up another 4,500 lbs power supply tomorrow, it is
destined to go to scrap after I remove fun parts such as the huge
circuit breaker, water cooled thyristors and Size 6 contactor.

Moments like this, make one appreciative of trailers.

i


I ran a forklift for quite a few years. I was OSHA certified up to 10,000#
lift, but operated a 3500# capacity for a very long time. Convention
freight. One day was 20 hours long. 12 was common.

This is a paint on bed liner. I would tell any person I was going to load
this skid on that I thought it would gouge the truck. I certainly don't
want them to skid it into mine to find out which one of us is correct here.
I am going to make sure BEFORE I pay for the pavers that the operator and
tines are capable of lifting it so that they can place it far enough into
the bed so I can close the tailgate, and so that they don't have to skid it,
or hit the tail gate.

My damned trailer, come to find out, will only carry 2200#. The salesman
told me 3500#, and I, like a fool, didn't even look at the plate riveted on
the trailer. All I wanted it for was two ATVs, which at max are 1500#.
Buyer beware.

I can borrow my BIL's heavier trailer, but then we have to hand unload
5,000+# of pavers......... I don't use a heavy one enough to buy one or
build one.

Steve


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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck


SteveB wrote:

"Ignoramus17007" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-14, SteveB wrote:
Thought my Dodge 2500 Cummins short bed would haul more than it will. I
need to bring home two pallets of pavers. One weighs 2800# the other
2600#.
I wouldn't consider two at once because of the loading. They would have
to
push one pallet in with the other to get them both on the truck. That
would
gouge the bedliner. But I just checked the Dodge site, and payload is
3410#.


It probably would not gouge the bedliner. Or you can always throw a
piece of plywood.

I am going to pick up another 4,500 lbs power supply tomorrow, it is
destined to go to scrap after I remove fun parts such as the huge
circuit breaker, water cooled thyristors and Size 6 contactor.

Moments like this, make one appreciative of trailers.

i


I ran a forklift for quite a few years. I was OSHA certified up to 10,000#
lift, but operated a 3500# capacity for a very long time. Convention
freight. One day was 20 hours long. 12 was common.

This is a paint on bed liner. I would tell any person I was going to load
this skid on that I thought it would gouge the truck. I certainly don't
want them to skid it into mine to find out which one of us is correct here.
I am going to make sure BEFORE I pay for the pavers that the operator and
tines are capable of lifting it so that they can place it far enough into
the bed so I can close the tailgate, and so that they don't have to skid it,
or hit the tail gate.


*Remove* the tailgate during the loading. It only takes a minute to do,
provides at least 18" further reach into the bed for a forklift that
doesn't have extension, and insures the forklift won't crunch the
tailgate. The forklift can generally press up against the bumper without
doing any damage.


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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck

"Pete C." wrote in news:HblCj.2951$6H.427
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:


Dan wrote:


At any rate, if you don't believe me, it's easy enough to test in a
parking lot with your own truck. Just load a bunch of concrete blocks
for the loaded portion of the test.


We were talking about an overloaded vehicle. Of course the brakes are
more efficient at rated GVW as opposed to an empty truck. The brakes
are designed to be 100% efficient at RATED GVW, but we were talking
about 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck and that don't make the brakes
more eficient.
Look at the subject line.
Did you come in the middle off the discussion?


On pretty much every "1 ton" pickup, the listed GVW is *not* the true
rating of the axles, brakes or suspension. Quite often the listed GVW is
10,000# to avoid the additional regs that come into play at 10,001#.
Therefore loading the vehicle past the listed 10,000# does not mean that
it is physically overloaded.


My "1-ton" Dodge 3500 dually has a manufacturer's GVWR of 12,000 pounds, a
rear axle rated at 10,000 pounds, a total tire load capacity on the rear
axle of 12,999 pounds, and a "build weight" of 7,340 pounds.

Hauling 4,000 pounds would NOT overload this truck. grin

As others have said, the "1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton" nomenclature is both
misleading and out-of-date.

Today's trucks are, generally, capable of hauling double the weight of
similar models produced when the nomenclature was first introduced.

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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck


Roger Shoaf wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
. net...
Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.


The problem is not between the rubber and the road, it is in the brakes
themselves.

A brake converts the energy of the rolling vehicle into heat, and the heaver
the load, and the faster the vehicle is rolling, the more heat gets
produced. When the brake exceeds the ability to dissipate the heat that is
built up, the brakes cease to function.

This is why they have those runaway truck ramps on steep hills.


That is not the issue with a pickup. The rear brakes on a pickup have
far more capacity both in braking action and in heat dissipation, than
the tires they work on have traction to the road surface without cargo
in the bed. Add significant weight in the bed and that braking capacity
becomes available.
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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:53:34 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote in message
.net...
Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.


The problem is not between the rubber and the road, it is in the brakes
themselves.

A brake converts the energy of the rolling vehicle into heat, and the heaver
the load, and the faster the vehicle is rolling, the more heat gets
produced. When the brake exceeds the ability to dissipate the heat that is
built up, the brakes cease to function.

This is why they have those runaway truck ramps on steep hills.



TRUE, BUT.
On an unloaded or lightly loaded Pickup, tye front brakes are doing
all the work, and the rear brakes do nothing - NADA.
Put close to the rated load on the truck and the rear brakes start
doing their job. There is a point where you can stop the loaded truck
more quickly than the empty truck. Varies from truck to truck, and
with load position, but a well loaded pickup can definitely stop as
well, if not better, than an empty truck.
Overloaded is a different story - and what, exactly defines
overloading, brake-wize, varies from truck to truck.
A Super Duty with 4 wheel disk brakes generally has more brake than
tire with single rear wheels.

--
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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:57:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Pete C." wrote...


Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.


The problem is not between the rubber and the road, it is in the brakes
themselves.

A brake converts the energy of the rolling vehicle into heat, and the heaver
the load, and the faster the vehicle is rolling, the more heat gets
produced. When the brake exceeds the ability to dissipate the heat that is
built up, the brakes cease to function.

This is why they have those runaway truck ramps on steep hills.


That is not the issue with a pickup.


Not normally, no - but a properly motivated idiot driver can get the
brakes hot enough to heat-fade to nothingness on almost any vehicle.

Passenger cars have enough reserves that getting the brakes that hot
takes a concerted effort. But pickups and small rental trucks are
often overloaded far above safe levels and taken down mountain passes
at "normal highway speeds" that are WAY too fast for conditions
considering the overload.

And they don't normally pull over small pickup trucks and box vans
on a whim and send them to the scales if they suspect an overload, or
run them all through the regular highway scale stations and issue them
tickets for overloading. It usually only becomes an issue at the
coroner's inquest after the "K-injury" (fatal) accident...

The rear brakes on a pickup have
far more capacity both in braking action and in heat dissipation, than
the tires they work on have traction to the road surface without cargo
in the bed. Add significant weight in the bed and that braking capacity
becomes available.


And that's why good trucks (Toyota for one) put a simple and cheap
all-mechanical Load Sensing Proportioning Valve on the rear axle brake
line, with a ride-height sensing arm going up to the chassis.

Empty truck, springs full up, LSPV arm sets it to minimum pressure,
and the brakes cut off before rear wheel skidding really gets started.
With weight transfer to the front axle, you can practically lift the
rear wheels off the ground in a panic stop, and this would lead to
serious control and stability problems.

Full truck, springs full down, LSPV set to wide open, and the rear
brakes will do all they can to help. And if the CG is very high or
far forward of the axle centerline, and the weight shifts forward in a
full panic stop, the LSPV will still kick in to keep the rear from
skidding.

-- Bruce --

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"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:57:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Pete C." wrote...


Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

The problem is not between the rubber and the road, it is in the brakes
themselves.

A brake converts the energy of the rolling vehicle into heat, and the heaver
the load, and the faster the vehicle is rolling, the more heat gets
produced. When the brake exceeds the ability to dissipate the heat that is
built up, the brakes cease to function.

This is why they have those runaway truck ramps on steep hills.


That is not the issue with a pickup.


Not normally, no - but a properly motivated idiot driver can get the
brakes hot enough to heat-fade to nothingness on almost any vehicle.

Passenger cars have enough reserves that getting the brakes that hot
takes a concerted effort. But pickups and small rental trucks are
often overloaded far above safe levels and taken down mountain passes
at "normal highway speeds" that are WAY too fast for conditions
considering the overload.

And they don't normally pull over small pickup trucks and box vans
on a whim and send them to the scales if they suspect an overload, or
run them all through the regular highway scale stations and issue them
tickets for overloading. It usually only becomes an issue at the
coroner's inquest after the "K-injury" (fatal) accident...

The rear brakes on a pickup have
far more capacity both in braking action and in heat dissipation, than
the tires they work on have traction to the road surface without cargo
in the bed. Add significant weight in the bed and that braking capacity
becomes available.


And that's why good trucks (Toyota for one) put a simple and cheap
all-mechanical Load Sensing Proportioning Valve on the rear axle brake
line, with a ride-height sensing arm going up to the chassis.

Empty truck, springs full up, LSPV arm sets it to minimum pressure,
and the brakes cut off before rear wheel skidding really gets started.
With weight transfer to the front axle, you can practically lift the
rear wheels off the ground in a panic stop, and this would lead to
serious control and stability problems.

Full truck, springs full down, LSPV set to wide open, and the rear
brakes will do all they can to help. And if the CG is very high or
far forward of the axle centerline, and the weight shifts forward in a
full panic stop, the LSPV will still kick in to keep the rear from
skidding.

-- Bruce --


An additional issue with an unloaded 1 ton truck is the ABS system. When
the rear axle goes over a bump during braking with the stiff suspension
and no cargo the wheels will bump up clear of the road and momentarily
stop turning which the ABS incorrectly interprets as the rear wheels
locking and promptly freaks out leading to a loss of braking and a
longer stopping distance. You quickly learn to scan the road while
braking and momentarily let off the brakes when you hit a bump.


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Default Transporting 2 tons in a 1 ton pickup truck

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:55:00 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:57:03 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"Pete C." wrote...


Yes, but for a pickup in particular, the braking gets better with more
weight due to the much improved rear wheel traction.

The problem is not between the rubber and the road, it is in the brakes
themselves.

A brake converts the energy of the rolling vehicle into heat, and the heaver
the load, and the faster the vehicle is rolling, the more heat gets
produced. When the brake exceeds the ability to dissipate the heat that is
built up, the brakes cease to function.

This is why they have those runaway truck ramps on steep hills.


That is not the issue with a pickup.


Not normally, no - but a properly motivated idiot driver can get the
brakes hot enough to heat-fade to nothingness on almost any vehicle.

Passenger cars have enough reserves that getting the brakes that hot
takes a concerted effort. But pickups and small rental trucks are
often overloaded far above safe levels and taken down mountain passes
at "normal highway speeds" that are WAY too fast for conditions
considering the overload.


Actually, over the last few years this is not true. Most passenger
cars today have borderline braking capacity at best. They are made as
light as possible, and with ABS you never need/want enough braking to
lock the wheels on dry pavement anyway. I could fade the brakes out
on any of my last 3 cars in virtually NO time, without more than half
trying.
Overloaded on a mountain pass you can take out ANY amount of brake if
you don't know how to drive.In normal operation, trucks tend to be
closer to overbraked than most cars. (some sports cars and light duty
pickups excepted, of course).

And they don't normally pull over small pickup trucks and box vans
on a whim and send them to the scales if they suspect an overload, or
run them all through the regular highway scale stations and issue them
tickets for overloading. It usually only becomes an issue at the
coroner's inquest after the "K-injury" (fatal) accident...

The rear brakes on a pickup have
far more capacity both in braking action and in heat dissipation, than
the tires they work on have traction to the road surface without cargo
in the bed. Add significant weight in the bed and that braking capacity
becomes available.


And that's why good trucks (Toyota for one) put a simple and cheap
all-mechanical Load Sensing Proportioning Valve on the rear axle brake
line, with a ride-height sensing arm going up to the chassis.

Empty truck, springs full up, LSPV arm sets it to minimum pressure,
and the brakes cut off before rear wheel skidding really gets started.
With weight transfer to the front axle, you can practically lift the
rear wheels off the ground in a panic stop, and this would lead to
serious control and stability problems.

Full truck, springs full down, LSPV set to wide open, and the rear
brakes will do all they can to help. And if the CG is very high or
far forward of the axle centerline, and the weight shifts forward in a
full panic stop, the LSPV will still kick in to keep the rear from
skidding.

-- Bruce --



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