I normally use my Craftsman combined plier/cutter/stripper/bolt-cutter/
crimper to crimp the yellow lugs from the home centers for 10-12 gauge
wire. Although a trusty tool, it doesn't crimp very well. Either I
have to squeeze it with both hands (not always possible), or I have to
listen to my joints crack when I squeeze one hand with all my might.
And some of the lugs fall off later on no matter how careful I am. I
wanted a Greenlee 45500 ratcheting crimper but didn't want to spend
$70. I picked up Harbor Freight's version earlier today. Here is my
opinion after about a dozen crimps:

The 93977 crimper is $15 at the store but on sale for $10 on their web
page. As usual, my local store price matched without any hassle. The
tool is made in Taiwan, with excellent fit and finish, and the design
appears durable. The die has three color coded positions for the
yellow, red and blue crimp terminals found at the home centers. The
ratcheting mechanism is smooth and "sounds" well made. If you start
squeezing the handle, you can't stop and open it up until you squeeze
all the way and the ratcheting mechanism releases. This prevents a
partial crimp. Also the ratcheting mechanism does a good job at
"gearing down" the squeezing force, so I don't have to squeeze with
all my might. I can easily and comfortably operate it with one hand.
Once crimped, there are two round depressions all the way around the
lug, unlike the one dimple my other tool produced. The ratcheting
mechanism can be adjusted via a knob. The dies are removable, but
Harbor Freight does not sell individual dies. Greenlee sells vast
numbers of individual dies for their crimper (for lugs, coax
connectors, fiber connectors, network connectors, and other exotic
connectors requiring crimping). I wonder if they will fit.

Overall I think the tool works well and I'm very satisfied so far.

I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

i

....
I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

I'm curious if I'm the only one...

I've historically had maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 crimps pull out later. Then a
MISERABLE time finding what went wrong. So, I gave up. I solder all my crimp
connectors to the wire.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

...
I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

I'm curious if I'm the only one...

I've historically had maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 crimps pull out later. Then a
MISERABLE time finding what went wrong. So, I gave up. I solder all my crimp
connectors to the wire.

Karl

That is typically the case with the non-ratcheting crimpers, or a
ratcheting one that is out of adjustment, or poor quality terminals used
with any crimper, or the wrong size wire used with a terminal.

A properly adjusted ratchet crimper used on quality terminals within the
specified wire gauge range is generally quite reliable. The problem as
you can see is there are a lot of variables.

"Albert" wrote in message
...
I normally use my Craftsman combined plier/cutter/stripper/bolt-cutter/
crimper to crimp the yellow lugs from the home centers for 10-12 gauge
wire. Although a trusty tool, it doesn't crimp very well. Either I
have to squeeze it with both hands (not always possible), or I have to
listen to my joints crack when I squeeze one hand with all my might.
And some of the lugs fall off later on no matter how careful I am. I
wanted a Greenlee 45500 ratcheting crimper but didn't want to spend
$70. I picked up Harbor Freight's version earlier today. Here is my
opinion after about a dozen crimps:

The 93977 crimper is $15 at the store but on sale for $10 on their web
page. As usual, my local store price matched without any hassle. The
tool is made in Taiwan, with excellent fit and finish, and the design
appears durable. The die has three color coded positions for the
yellow, red and blue crimp terminals found at the home centers. The
ratcheting mechanism is smooth and "sounds" well made. If you start
squeezing the handle, you can't stop and open it up until you squeeze
all the way and the ratcheting mechanism releases. This prevents a
partial crimp. Also the ratcheting mechanism does a good job at
"gearing down" the squeezing force, so I don't have to squeeze with
all my might. I can easily and comfortably operate it with one hand.
Once crimped, there are two round depressions all the way around the
lug, unlike the one dimple my other tool produced. The ratcheting
mechanism can be adjusted via a knob. The dies are removable, but
Harbor Freight does not sell individual dies. Greenlee sells vast
numbers of individual dies for their crimper (for lugs, coax
connectors, fiber connectors, network connectors, and other exotic
connectors requiring crimping). I wonder if they will fit.

Overall I think the tool works well and I'm very satisfied so far.

Albert,

Thanks for taking the time to write the above review. This is exactly one
of the purposes of this news group!!!!!

Ivan Vegvary

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 23:54:56 -0800 (PST), Albert
wrote:

Overall I think the tool works well and I'm very satisfied so far.

THANK YOU!

(On the way to HF, out!)

On 2007-12-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

I'm curious if I'm the only one...

I've historically had maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 crimps pull out later. Then a
MISERABLE time finding what went wrong. So, I gave up. I solder all my crimp
connectors to the wire.

I do this only on very safety critical things or where there is
contamination, flexing etc, like trailer wiring. Supposedly, a good
crimp does not need soldering. I never had any crimps pull out, but
then, I never had a situation where crimp was taking any serious
mechanical stress.

i

On 2007-12-08, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Albert,

Thanks for taking the time to write the above review. This is exactly one
of the purposes of this news group!!!!!


I would like to second this also. Thank you!

i

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 09:06:59 -0600, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

...
I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

I'm curious if I'm the only one...

I've historically had maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 crimps pull out later. Then a
MISERABLE time finding what went wrong. So, I gave up. I solder all my crimp
connectors to the wire.

Karl

It depends on the terminal, wire, crimper, use and the
operator. Way too many variables involved for just one
answer as to "why it failed".

Some terminals are just crap and some are really, really
nice. But you pay for the latter, unless you can find a good
deal some how (yard sale, auction...).

Personally I despise the ratchet crimpers. Once you start
squeezing, it is a pain to reposition the lug (some do have
a convenient release, but many don't). Sometimes a full
crimp is more than what should be used on a particular
application. The person doing the crimping should be making
this determination not the tool.

One trick that can help if the terminal is a bit too big is
to strip your wire twice as long and fold it over in half.
Shove that into the terminal and crimp. A full terminal
almost always holds better.

Practice, practice, practice and figure out why when
failures do happen.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:35:21 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:


It depends on the terminal, wire, crimper, use and the
operator. Way too many variables involved for just one
answer as to "why it failed".

Some terminals are just crap and some are really, really
nice. But you pay for the latter, unless you can find a good
deal some how (yard sale, auction...).

Personally I despise the ratchet crimpers. Once you start
squeezing, it is a pain to reposition the lug (some do have
a convenient release, but many don't).

The HF crimper does have a ratchet release lever. I wouldn't exactly
call it "convenient", but it's there.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:53:04 -0600, Ignoramus21145
wrote:

On 2007-12-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

I'm curious if I'm the only one...

I've historically had maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 crimps pull out later. Then a
MISERABLE time finding what went wrong. So, I gave up. I solder all my crimp
connectors to the wire.

I do this only on very safety critical things or where there is
contamination, flexing etc, like trailer wiring. Supposedly, a good
crimp does not need soldering. I never had any crimps pull out, but
then, I never had a situation where crimp was taking any serious
mechanical stress.

i

This is exactly where a *good* crimp is the better termination. Solder
wicks up inside stranded wire, making it nearly certain to eventually
break due to fatigue if there is repeated flexing. A good crimp is
gas-tight, so corrosion is not an issue. However, it is not easy to
consistently make good crimps with a hardware-store-type single-action
(not compound leverage) crimper.

For heavy wire like welding cable or battery leads, I use a hammer
crimp tool. Not this exact model, but same idea:
http://store.solar-electric.com/hacrtoforlal.html
Hit with BIG hammer, make good crimp. Drag welder around by leads,
the crimps won't pull out!

On 2007-12-08, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 12:53:04 -0600, Ignoramus21145
wrote:

On 2007-12-08, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
I have a similar ratcheting crimp, and I am very satisfied.

I'm curious if I'm the only one...

I've historically had maybe 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 crimps pull out later. Then a
MISERABLE time finding what went wrong. So, I gave up. I solder all my crimp
connectors to the wire.

I do this only on very safety critical things or where there is
contamination, flexing etc, like trailer wiring. Supposedly, a good
crimp does not need soldering. I never had any crimps pull out, but
then, I never had a situation where crimp was taking any serious
mechanical stress.


Just to clarify, I would crimp and solder.


This is exactly where a *good* crimp is the better termination. Solder
wicks up inside stranded wire, making it nearly certain to eventually
break due to fatigue if there is repeated flexing. A good crimp is
gas-tight, so corrosion is not an issue. However, it is not easy to
consistently make good crimps with a hardware-store-type single-action
(not compound leverage) crimper.

Yes.

For heavy wire like welding cable or battery leads, I use a hammer
crimp tool. Not this exact model, but same idea:
http://store.solar-electric.com/hacrtoforlal.html
Hit with BIG hammer, make good crimp. Drag welder around by leads,
the crimps won't pull out!

There are manual crimpers sold for this, trhey are large, like bolt
cutters.
i

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...unction=Search
JR
Dweller in the cellar

Albert wrote:

I normally use my Craftsman combined plier/cutter/stripper/bolt-cutter/
crimper to crimp the yellow lugs from the home centers for 10-12 gauge
wire. Although a trusty tool, it doesn't crimp very well. Either I
have to squeeze it with both hands (not always possible), or I have to
listen to my joints crack when I squeeze one hand with all my might.
And some of the lugs fall off later on no matter how careful I am. I
wanted a Greenlee 45500 ratcheting crimper but didn't want to spend
$70. I picked up Harbor Freight's version earlier today. Here is my
opinion after about a dozen crimps:

The 93977 crimper is $15 at the store but on sale for $10 on their web
page. As usual, my local store price matched without any hassle. The
tool is made in Taiwan, with excellent fit and finish, and the design
appears durable. The die has three color coded positions for the
yellow, red and blue crimp terminals found at the home centers. The
ratcheting mechanism is smooth and "sounds" well made. If you start
squeezing the handle, you can't stop and open it up until you squeeze
all the way and the ratcheting mechanism releases. This prevents a
partial crimp. Also the ratcheting mechanism does a good job at
"gearing down" the squeezing force, so I don't have to squeeze with
all my might. I can easily and comfortably operate it with one hand.
Once crimped, there are two round depressions all the way around the
lug, unlike the one dimple my other tool produced. The ratcheting
mechanism can be adjusted via a knob. The dies are removable, but
Harbor Freight does not sell individual dies. Greenlee sells vast
numbers of individual dies for their crimper (for lugs, coax
connectors, fiber connectors, network connectors, and other exotic
connectors requiring crimping). I wonder if they will fit.

Overall I think the tool works well and I'm very satisfied so far.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 18:13:45 -0600, Ignoramus21145
wrote:



For heavy wire like welding cable or battery leads, I use a hammer
crimp tool. Not this exact model, but same idea:
http://store.solar-electric.com/hacrtoforlal.html
Hit with BIG hammer, make good crimp. Drag welder around by leads,
the crimps won't pull out!

There are manual crimpers sold for this, trhey are large, like bolt
cutters.

Yes, and bench- or pedesal-mounted ones that are even larger. The
litle hammer crimp tool works fine for a few crimps per year, takes
about no space, and cost me 20 bux brand new. (I already had a
hammer)

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:43:20 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If you're soldering, that does a better job than any crimp.

It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. When
stranded wire is soldered, some solder wicks up into the strands which
effectively makes it a solid wire for a short distance, and therefore
as vulnerable to flex fatigue and failure as solid wire would be.

Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.

On Dec 8, 7:48 pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:43:20 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
If you're soldering, that does a better job than any crimp.

It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. ...

Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.

A good mil-spec crimp uses four-point indentors with a ratchet tool
around a seamless barrel, and the wire size and barrel dimension
are VERY well matched. It isn't practical to use those systems for
jackleg repairs, so simple U-crimp fittings are what most hobbyists
see.

Best U-crimp tools are from AMP, Klein, maybe Molex. There are
lots of dollar-store chromed pliers that won't do it right, and lots
of barrel/wiresize mismatches possible, but generally the tools
and supplies at the 'high' end are good, and the dollar-store ones
give them ALL a bad reputation.

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:35:21 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:


Some terminals are just crap and some are really, really
nice. But you pay for the latter, unless you can find a good
deal some how (yard sale, auction...).


A LOT of terminals are Utter Crap. Its getting hard to f ind good
ones that dont cost a second on the homestead.

Gunner

Don Foreman wrote:

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:43:20 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
If you're soldering, that does a better job than any crimp.


It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. When
stranded wire is soldered, some solder wicks up into the strands which
effectively makes it a solid wire for a short distance, and therefore
as vulnerable to flex fatigue and failure as solid wire would be.

Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.


Yep. That is the standard response by people that have no
idea what a crimping system is all about. I used lugs and
tools by AMP and Burndy and several others in the business
on electronic equipment for the millitary for many years.

This is what's wrong with questions and answers on the net.
What is level of "expertise" of the responder and the
understaning of the "asker" ?
...lew...

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:53:21 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:35:21 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:


Some terminals are just crap and some are really, really
nice. But you pay for the latter, unless you can find a good
deal some how (yard sale, auction...).


A LOT of terminals are Utter Crap. Its getting hard to find good
ones that dont cost a second on the homestead.

Gunner

I hear you, but they are wonderful to use when you can get
your grubby little hands on them

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:00:32 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:35:21 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:


It depends on the terminal, wire, crimper, use and the
operator. Way too many variables involved for just one
answer as to "why it failed".

Some terminals are just crap and some are really, really
nice. But you pay for the latter, unless you can find a good
deal some how (yard sale, auction...).

Personally I despise the ratchet crimpers. Once you start
squeezing, it is a pain to reposition the lug (some do have
a convenient release, but many don't).

The HF crimper does have a ratchet release lever. I wouldn't exactly
call it "convenient", but it's there.

That is nice to know. I'll have to take a look at it next
time I get to HF. So did you buy one?

I suspect ratchet crimpers work really well in a controlled
setting. Where you know the wire size, terminal and
application. Then you can have any Tom, Dick or Harry
squeeze the handle and get the desired result.

I had to make do with the terminals I had with me in my
parts caddy at the time. Then maybe stand on my head to
reach the wire up underneath the dash or some similarly
awkward place...

I used several different crimp tools though. Needed open
barrel (sometimes called Flag), insulated, un-insulated and
specials for odd RF/coaxial connectors.

It is only in relatively recent years that you can get
inexpensive crimpers that do a pretty decent job. The
specials used to cost ~$100 plus. Kind of hard to justify
buying when you only needed one once or twice a year.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:24:03 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:



That is nice to know. I'll have to take a look at it next
time I get to HF. So did you buy one?

I did. Looks OK. I like the notion of having compound leverage. It
looks like the "release" point of the ratchet is adjustable, so one
could examine a crimp, maybe do a pull test, and adjust if/as needed.

I'm sure it doesn't compare to a $100 tool, but I think it'll work
considerably better than the pliers-type crimpers.

I suspect ratchet crimpers work really well in a controlled
setting. Where you know the wire size, terminal and
application. Then you can have any Tom, Dick or Harry
squeeze the handle and get the desired result.

A ratchet also enables greater compound leverage, because you can use
several strokes to close the jaws.

Lew Hartswick wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. When
stranded wire is soldered, some solder wicks up into the strands which
effectively makes it a solid wire for a short distance, and therefore
as vulnerable to flex fatigue and failure as solid wire would be.
Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.

Yep. That is the standard response by people that have no
idea what a crimping system is all about. I used lugs and
tools by AMP and Burndy and several others in the business
on electronic equipment for the millitary for many years.

This is what's wrong with questions and answers on the net.
What is level of "expertise" of the responder and the
understaning of the "asker" ?

So ... you're saying that the idea of solder wicking up the strands and
making the wire stiff and vulnerable to fatigue is wrong? If so, is it
because you have soldered crimped connections without problems? And you
have done so on the military equipment you cite?

Looking for clarification is all,
Bob

On 2007-12-09, whit3rd wrote:
On Dec 8, 7:48 pm, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:43:20 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

wrote:
If you're soldering, that does a better job than any crimp.

It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. ...

Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.

A good mil-spec crimp uses four-point indentors with a ratchet tool
around a seamless barrel, and the wire size and barrel dimension
are VERY well matched. It isn't practical to use those systems for
jackleg repairs, so simple U-crimp fittings are what most hobbyists
see.

The four-point indent is the best for insertable pins for
connectors, but a well made Double-D crimp (such as those by AMP with
ratchet control to make sure that the crimp is completed) are the best
for pre-insulated ring and fork terminals. The good ones also do a
separate crimp to support the wire's insulation to minimize flexing of
the wires at the exit point from the contact's barrel.

Best U-crimp tools are from AMP, Klein, maybe Molex. There are
lots of dollar-store chromed pliers that won't do it right, and lots
of barrel/wiresize mismatches possible, but generally the tools
and supplies at the 'high' end are good, and the dollar-store ones
give them ALL a bad reputation.

U-crimp can conver a multitude of evils and goods.

The ones with a U shaped nest and a single indentor on the jaw
opposite are bad news -- though they can work with stranded wire and
uninsulated terminal barrels.

The ones with two matched dies on either side which crimp in
multiple ridges for the grip (such as the AMP PIDG crimpers) can be
excellent. I've got crimpers for these from 28 ga up through 4/0, with
the top eight sizes (8 ga through 4/0) closed by hydraulic pump instead
of hand force and a ratchet.

The ones with a single U nest for the terminal body, and a pair
of side-by-side "U"s for folding over flags to bite end-on into the
wire, and separately fold another set of flags to a circular strain
relief for the insulation can make very reliable connections with the
terminals formed from sheet metal instead of the machined barrel ones
needed for the 4-point indentors -- usually best done with the Daniels
crimpers.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:11:04 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:53:21 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:35:21 -0500, Leon Fisk
wrote:


Some terminals are just crap and some are really, really
nice. But you pay for the latter, unless you can find a good
deal some how (yard sale, auction...).


A LOT of terminals are Utter Crap. Its getting hard to find good
ones that dont cost a second on the homestead.

Gunner

I hear you, but they are wonderful to use when you can get
your grubby little hands on them


Indeed, but when you run out while on the road someplace..and you have
to resort to Rat Shack (run away..run away now!)...

Ive gotten better terminals at Napa auto parts than at RS or other
"electronic stores"

Gunner

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Lew Hartswick wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. When
stranded wire is soldered, some solder wicks up into the strands which
effectively makes it a solid wire for a short distance, and therefore
as vulnerable to flex fatigue and failure as solid wire would be.
Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.

Yep. That is the standard response by people that have no
idea what a crimping system is all about. I used lugs and
tools by AMP and Burndy and several others in the business
on electronic equipment for the millitary for many years.

This is what's wrong with questions and answers on the net.
What is level of "expertise" of the responder and the
understaning of the "asker" ?


So ... you're saying that the idea of solder wicking up the strands and
making the wire stiff and vulnerable to fatigue is wrong? If so, is it
because you have soldered crimped connections without problems? And you
have done so on the military equipment you cite?

Looking for clarification is all,
Bob
No. I personally have not, but there have been MANY very extensive
tests done by "testing labs" to prove the point which has
resulted in the procedures required by government acquisition
agencies.
...lew...

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:18:48 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

snip
A ratchet also enables greater compound leverage, because you can use
several strokes to close the jaws.

All of the ratchet crimpers I've used/seen had some compound
leverage, but the ratchet part was simply there to force a
full cycle. I've seen and played with (at the store) the
ratchet pruners that use multiple strokes so I know what you
mean.

Production work for me was maybe 6 to 12 terminals at one
time to hook up something (remote control radio) to a
terminal strip/block. By the time you got a ratchet crimper
"dialed" in I would be all done

I've got this one listed on my "take a look at list" for the
next time I'm poking around at HF. Right along side those
Precision Screwdrivers just discussed.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 02:04:27 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

Indeed, but when you run out while on the road someplace..and you have
to resort to Rat Shack (run away..run away now!)...

Ive gotten better terminals at Napa auto parts than at RS or other
"electronic stores"

It is a lot easier to find crappy ones than it is to find
good ones. We used to go through quite a few misc terminals
at work. Finding/keeping a decent supplier wasn't easy for a
whole raft of different reasons. I can't say I miss that
part of the job...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2007-12-10, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:18:48 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

snip
A ratchet also enables greater compound leverage, because you can use
several strokes to close the jaws.

All of the ratchet crimpers I've used/seen had some compound
leverage, but the ratchet part was simply there to force a
full cycle. I've seen and played with (at the store) the
ratchet pruners that use multiple strokes so I know what you
mean.

Production work for me was maybe 6 to 12 terminals at one
time to hook up something (remote control radio) to a
terminal strip/block. By the time you got a ratchet crimper
"dialed" in I would be all done

The *proper* ratcheting crimpers -- those made by AMP and the
like -- have no dialing in. Each crimper is for a specific size of
terminal and a specific range of wire sizes. The most common in my
experience are the red (22-16 ga), blue (16-14 ga), and yellow (12-10
ga). And for the red, the 16 ga is better put in the blue terminals.

Each crimper has a set of go/no-go gauges available. to check
the size at fully closed. The larger sizes (8 ga, through 2 ga in one
series, and 1/0 through 4/0 in the other series) use interchangeable
dies in hydraulic heads. The stroke is limited by the dimensions of the
dies, not by adjustments to the head. And these, too have go/no-go
gauges specified. (You get dimensions in the data sheets, so you can
simply get pin gauges to use if you don't want to spend the extra bucks
to get AMP's on sets.)

I've got this one listed on my "take a look at list" for the
next time I'm poking around at HF. Right along side those
Precision Screwdrivers just discussed.

I would like to look at the HF crimper, to compare it with my
collection of AMP crimpers. If it is good enough, I might use it for an
on-the-road tool to avoid taking three of the AMP ones along. (I would
among other things, check how it crimps the insulation support.) But
for building something, I would use the AMP ones. And for building a
*lot* of something, I would get some of the compressed air driven
crimpers from AMP which show up in eBay auctions from time to time.

Granted -- I would not pay (as a hobbyist) AMP crimpers *new*,
but I've gotten them from surplus sales, hamfests, and eBay auctions to
fill out my collection. This includes lots of special-purpose ones,
such as the ones which crimp shield and center pin at the same time for
coax inserts to connectors, and ones which crimp a ferrule on the shield
of shielded wire, to connect it to the shields of other wires, and then
to ground or to pins in a connector.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Dec 9, 9:11 pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
Looking for clarification is all,
Bob

http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html

In article , "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:



I would like to look at the HF crimper, to compare it with my
collection of AMP crimpers. If it is good enough, I might use it for an
on-the-road tool to avoid taking three of the AMP ones along. (I would
among other things, check how it crimps the insulation support.) But
for building something, I would use the AMP ones. And for building a
*lot* of something, I would get some of the compressed air driven
crimpers from AMP which show up in eBay auctions from time to time.


For some semi-volume production crimping, say 1,000 to 2,000 crimps per
week, we rely on a pneumatic tool available from Paladin-Tools Co,
www.paladin-tools.com. Part No. 901510.

It is simply an air cylinder with a frame/clamp that holds a
ratcheting-pliers type crimping tool (their 1300-series pliers in our
case) and closes them for you with a foot operated air switch.

It would be easy enough for a handy HSM'er to fab one. Bought new they
were about $500 to set one station up IIRC. These 1300-pliers use
interchangeable die-sets for different terminals. Works a treat for us.

Thanks also to the OP for the review.

--
Paul S
Remove Before Flight

In article , Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Lew Hartswick wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

It doesn't do as good a job with stranded wire as a good crimp. When
stranded wire is soldered, some solder wicks up into the strands which
effectively makes it a solid wire for a short distance, and therefore
as vulnerable to flex fatigue and failure as solid wire would be.
Crimped connections are used in aerospace applications.

Yep. That is the standard response by people that have no
idea what a crimping system is all about. I used lugs and
tools by AMP and Burndy and several others in the business
on electronic equipment for the millitary for many years.

This is what's wrong with questions and answers on the net.
What is level of "expertise" of the responder and the
understaning of the "asker" ?


So ... you're saying that the idea of solder wicking up the strands and
making the wire stiff and vulnerable to fatigue is wrong? If so, is it
because you have soldered crimped connections without problems? And you
have done so on the military equipment you cite?

Looking for clarification is all,
Bob
No. I personally have not, but there have been MANY very extensive
tests done by "testing labs" to prove the point which has
resulted in the procedures required by government acquisition
agencies.
...lew...

Not to get in the middle here, but in my limited experience in marine
applications, solder is a big no-no. Crimp-only for multi-strand wire
that is in any type of possible flexing environment. There seems not to
be any problem with corrosion, even in harsh salt-water environments.
Boats routinely have scores of such crimp-only connections and they seem
to last for decades.

--
Paul S
Remove Before Flight

On 2007-12-11, Paul wrote:
In article , "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:



I would like to look at the HF crimper, to compare it with my
collection of AMP crimpers. If it is good enough, I might use it for an
on-the-road tool to avoid taking three of the AMP ones along. (I would
among other things, check how it crimps the insulation support.) But
for building something, I would use the AMP ones. And for building a
*lot* of something, I would get some of the compressed air driven
crimpers from AMP which show up in eBay auctions from time to time.


For some semi-volume production crimping, say 1,000 to 2,000 crimps per
week, we rely on a pneumatic tool available from Paladin-Tools Co,
www.paladin-tools.com. Part No. 901510.

Paladin makes a pretty good third-party crimper series. I have
a couple of those for things which I have not been able to cover with
the AMP tools which I have been able go get used at reasonable prices.

It is simply an air cylinder with a frame/clamp that holds a
ratcheting-pliers type crimping tool (their 1300-series pliers in our
case) and closes them for you with a foot operated air switch.

O.K The ones made by AMP which I was looking at recently have
drifted off the current auction list, There were two in a single lot for
about $30.00 IIRC. There are examples (for quite a bit more) in the
eBay stores section. An example is auction number:

190173235220

This is for semi-production -- or production work which has to
be in an inconvenient place, like in the cockpit of a flight simulator,
or a real aircraft.

For cables and assemblies which fit on the assembly workbenches,
there are bench-mounted machines which feed the terminals from a reel,
and you just have to stick the stripped wire in and hit the foot switch,
or perhaps even a switch set where it can be bumped by a knuckle as you
stick the wire in. Those are significantly more expensive, even from
eBay auctions -- starting over $1000.00, and sometimes a *lot* over
that.

For my purposes, most terminals can be crimped by hand-held and
hand powered crimpers -- but I don't do real production. I do have a
hydraulic pump which cycles up to 10,000 PSI and then releases, to
handle the hydraulic heads for the 8 ga through 2 ga, and the 1/0
through 4/0. (Two different heads, with different diameter rams, so the
10,000 PSI peak is right for each.

The alternative -- for me -- is to pump the lever on an Enerpac
cylinder. When I first encountered the 4/0 dies and head (where I
worked many years ago), there was a floor resting pump with a foot pedal
to get the 10,000 PSI, and another one to release the pressure once you
hit the "break" point where suddenly your foot went down rapidly, after
the peak pressure had been reached. (Bypasses in the heads, I think.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2007-12-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 9, 9:11 pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
Looking for clarification is all,
Bob

http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html

O.K. These are for a bench-mounted tool which takes the
terminals from a reel, cuts them off and crimps them properly to the
wire size. These, since they are designed to cover a large number of
different terminals and wire sizes (in part by changing dies, and in
part by adjusting strokes) have to be adjusted properly for the terminal
and wire size. But -- once adjusted, they will go through many reels of
terminals, at perhaps 10,000 terminals per reel. A production line
which has to handle multiple terminals and wire sizes will have multiple
machines, each set up to do one size properly. This is a far cry from
the ratcheting crimp tools, where each tool is set up by the
manufacturer's design for a single terminal type and wire size. (The
typical AMP PIDG crimpers do have a pair of pins which can go in one of
three pairs of holes to adjust the size of the insulation crimp for
different insulation thicknesses.)

Maintenance crimpers may come with dies for multiple sizes in a
single tool, but not production crimpers. The maintenance crimper is a
good thing to have along in case something goes wrong, but not really
right for thousands of crimps per day.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Dec 11, 10:44 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2007-12-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html

O.K. These are for a bench-mounted tool ...
DoN.

Some of the advice applies to hand crimps. Here's another one, if the
html version of the PDF link works:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...&cd=13&gl =us

On 2007-12-12, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:44 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2007-12-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html

O.K. These are for a bench-mounted tool ...
DoN.

Some of the advice applies to hand crimps. Here's another one, if the
html version of the PDF link works:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...&cd=13&gl =us

The better URL is this

www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf

and thanks a lot, the article is great.

i

On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:39:04 -0600, Ignoramus7955
wrote:

On 2007-12-12, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:44 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2007-12-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html

O.K. These are for a bench-mounted tool ...
DoN.

Some of the advice applies to hand crimps. Here's another one, if the
html version of the PDF link works:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...&cd=13&gl =us

The better URL is this

www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf

and thanks a lot, the article is great.

i

The best is to repair the stuff for 20 years or more. Make
mental notes of what fails and what works. It always amazed
me how fellow workers could keep making/causing the same
problems over and over and...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2007-12-12, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 11, 10:44 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2007-12-11, Jim Wilkins wrote:
http://www.molex.com/tnotes/crimp.html

O.K. These are for a bench-mounted tool ...
DoN.

Some of the advice applies to hand crimps.

Yes -- and some of it involves things which can be *changed*
only on a powered bench tool. Those things are pre-set in the
manufacture of a proper hand tool, assuming that you use the right one
for the terminals and wire size in question. The hand tools (at least
by AMP) are marked by dipping the ends of the handles in paint of a
color to match the insulation on the crimp terminal -- red for 22-16 ga,
blue for 16-14 ga, and yellow for 12-10 ga. (Of course the same colors
repeat as you go both up and down in the range of sizes -- but if you
get the right color but the wrong size, it will be different enough to
be quite obvious that what you have is wrong. Interestingly enough the
16-14 ga ones have one handle dipped in blue, and one in green, though I
have never seen a green-insulated terminal.

When these have been bashing around in someone's toolbox for
long enough, you will see the colors only on the inside of the handles,
which are formed from fairly thick sheet steel, with the part where you
hand applies the pressure rounded, and the open edges facing inside the
handles.

For the interchangeable dies in the hydraulic heads, the dies
themselves are marked by dots of paint of the appropriate color in
shallow holes -- in addition to being marked in text engraved in the
dies, and embossing the size in the plastic of the terminal. (The
smaller ones -- 10 Ga and smaller alternate between one dot and two dots
for inspection purposes, and if the size is off enough to repeat the dot
pattern, again it is quite obvious that you have the wrong one. :-)

Here's another one, if the
html version of the PDF link works:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...&cd=13&gl =us

A *very* good collection of information for hand crimping
tools, and the proper terminals for them.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---