"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the metals
aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is dropping.

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.


An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of our
useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to 1933,
was $20.67/ounce.

Harold

On Oct 18, 9:18 am, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message

...







"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.

An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of our
useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to 1933,
was $20.67/ounce.

Harold- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We own a fishing tackle store here in South Africa - the price of
lead here too has rocketed - even here the lead is being sent to China
from the scrap merchants - not good for sinker prices !!!! Soon it
wont only be Bismuth sinkers that are outrageously priced !!!

Tim

wrote in article
. com...
On Oct 15, 9:55 am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.



We could simply stop buying Chinese-made toys.

If the demand for Chinese toys goes down, they won't need as much
lead-based paint, and their need for lead will go down dramatically.

"TMN" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 18, 9:18 am, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message

...







"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site
(Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.

An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our
useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933,
was $20.67/ounce.

Harold- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We own a fishing tackle store here in South Africa - the price of
lead here too has rocketed - even here the lead is being sent to China
from the scrap merchants - not good for sinker prices !!!! Soon it
wont only be Bismuth sinkers that are outrageously priced !!!

Tim

Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get pure
tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than lead!
But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper than
tungsten. Iridium is almost double the density of pure lead, but an ounce
of iridium would be over seven hundred dollars. You'd have to be one wildly
successful fisherman to justify iridium sinkers...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. net...

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.


An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold

Thank you. Yeah, inflation doth bite. At the same time, if you think that
the dollar has *ever* seen a high rate of inflation, you'll be in for an
awful shock when the petrodollar exclusivity is finally broken. Well, SOME
people will be, but I suspect you invest in resources rather than currencies
and are probably already aware of the upcoming period of catastrophic
inflation.

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"TMN" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 18, 9:18 am, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message

...







"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
...
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site
(Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar
is
dropping.

An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our
useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933,
was $20.67/ounce.

Harold- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We own a fishing tackle store here in South Africa - the price of
lead here too has rocketed - even here the lead is being sent to China
from the scrap merchants - not good for sinker prices !!!! Soon it
wont only be Bismuth sinkers that are outrageously priced !!!

Tim

Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get
pure tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than
lead! But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper
than tungsten. Iridium is almost double the density of pure lead, but an
ounce of iridium would be over seven hundred dollars. You'd have to be
one wildly successful fisherman to justify iridium sinkers...

A fisherman with a wet suit and SCUBA gear. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:20:45 -0500, "Adam Corolla"
wrote:
snip
you'll be in for an
awful shock when the petrodollar exclusivity is finally broken.
snip
Rumors, innuendo, and gossip continue to indicate that Saddam
Insane got the chop because of three no-nos.

1. He started pricing Iraq's oil in Euros, and was thus
threatening to blow that particular scam.

2. He was beating the oil futures speculators because he could
turn the oil spigot on and off, as required to make a profit
going short and long.

3. He was speculating against the US dollar, verging on economic
warfare, as an extension/expansion of his oil speculation
successes.

Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.

Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the
US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make
the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US
banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the
Arabs.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On 2007-10-18, F George McDuffee wrote:
Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.

Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the
US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make
the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US
banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the
Arabs.

Immediately after the "mission accomplished" vistory over Saddam, I
exchanged a substantial amount of our dollars into euros, and held
them ever since. A decision that I am not at all regretting. I feel
much better with cash in euros rather than in dollars, though I still
have quite a lot of dollar assets -- but not 100%.

i

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:07:04 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, "*"
wrote,
We could simply stop buying Chinese-made toys.

You mean stop buying from Harbor Freight?
Not going to happen. Now go away.

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:20:45 -0500, "Adam Corolla"
wrote:
snip
you'll be in for an
awful shock when the petrodollar exclusivity is finally broken.
snip
Rumors, innuendo, and gossip continue to indicate that Saddam
Insane got the chop because of three no-nos.

1. He started pricing Iraq's oil in Euros, and was thus
threatening to blow that particular scam.

2. He was beating the oil futures speculators because he could
turn the oil spigot on and off, as required to make a profit
going short and long.

3. He was speculating against the US dollar, verging on economic
warfare, as an extension/expansion of his oil speculation
successes.

Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.

Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the
US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make
the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US
banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the
Arabs.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]

Exactly.

"Ignoramus1624" wrote in message
...
On 2007-10-18, F George McDuffee
wrote:
Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.

Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the
US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make
the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US
banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the
Arabs.

Immediately after the "mission accomplished" vistory over Saddam, I
exchanged a substantial amount of our dollars into euros, and held
them ever since. A decision that I am not at all regretting. I feel
much better with cash in euros rather than in dollars, though I still
have quite a lot of dollar assets -- but not 100%.

i

You were smart to invest in Euros then. I didn't know about any of this
until recently.

Though I'm no expert in this, I have a feeling that a sudden, catastrophic
drop in the dollar's value could negatively impact the Euro as well, not to
mention the entire world economy. I'm not saying it would devastate the
world economy, just that it wouldn't be good.

To me, all currency is just an IOU which can be voided at any time. Of
course, nothing is 100% proof against loss, but I feel better putting my
money in hard assets.

On 2007-10-18, Adam Corolla wrote:

"Ignoramus1624" wrote in message
...
On 2007-10-18, F George McDuffee
wrote:
Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.

Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the
US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make
the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US
banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the
Arabs.

Immediately after the "mission accomplished" vistory over Saddam, I
exchanged a substantial amount of our dollars into euros, and held
them ever since. A decision that I am not at all regretting. I feel
much better with cash in euros rather than in dollars, though I still
have quite a lot of dollar assets -- but not 100%.

i

You were smart to invest in Euros then. I didn't know about any of this
until recently.

You did not know about our trade deficit, mounting debt, and
artificially low interest rates?

Though I'm no expert in this, I have a feeling that a sudden, catastrophic
drop in the dollar's value could negatively impact the Euro as well, not to
mention the entire world economy. I'm not saying it would devastate the
world economy, just that it wouldn't be good.

It would be a good thing, in my opinion, though it will obviously lead
to higher interest rates here in the US. Since US foreign debt is denominated
in dollars (not typical), an option to av oid paying it is
inflation. Another outcome is a more responsible fiscal policy, and
more favorable trade balance.


To me, all currency is just an IOU which can be voided at any time. Of
course, nothing is 100% proof against loss, but I feel better putting my
money in hard assets.

Make sure that the "hard assets" earn you money while you are holding
them. Here, I am a little bit preaching to do what I say rather than
what I do, since for a few years I held 7 100 oz silver bars. But that
was because I thought that silver was underpriced.

i

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:17:43 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Adam
Corolla" wrote,
Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get pure
tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than lead!
But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper than
tungsten.

Some time ago I found a used carbide diamond-shaped tool insert lying on
the sidewalk. I don't use insert tooling, so I was surprised to find how
heavy it was for the small size. Tungsten carbide, presumably. How
much does used carbide go for per pound? Would sinkers or boat keels
molded of used inserts embedded in epoxy be economical?

On 2007-10-18, David Harmon wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:17:43 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Adam
Corolla" wrote,
Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get pure
tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than lead!
But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper than
tungsten.

Some time ago I found a used carbide diamond-shaped tool insert lying on
the sidewalk. I don't use insert tooling, so I was surprised to find how
heavy it was for the small size. Tungsten carbide, presumably. How
much does used carbide go for per pound? Would sinkers or boat keels
molded of used inserts embedded in epoxy be economical?



About 5 dollars per lb. I recently scrapped a few lbs.

i

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
1...

Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.



An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of our
useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to 1933,
was $20.67/ounce.

Harold


Really, Harold.

Out of context, this looks like a huge devaluation. In context, not so
much.

Better comparisons would be to look at the price of gold, etc, against
the monthly average wage.

Wages have increased a great deal, also, in the time frame. A guy that
could buy an ounce of gold on his payday then, can still pretty much buy
one now.

Inflation sucks, but comparing just one data point, such as "the price
then was..." is pretty much useless info.

Compare how long a person could live, on the sale of an ounce of gold,
then to current state.

That would be a little better comparison.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:18:31 -0700, David Harmon
wrote:
How
much does used carbide go for per pound?

$8.50/lb as of Monday. It was as high as $9.25 last summer.

--
Ned Simmons

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:50:30 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
2. He was beating the oil futures speculators because he could
turn the oil spigot on and off, as required to make a profit
going short and long.
snip
This just in

Light, sweet crude for November delivery hit $90.02 in electronic
trading Thursday evening before returning to around $89.60.
Earlier, prices had risen $2.07 to settle at a record $89.47 on
the New York Mercantile Exchange.

for rest of article click on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071018/...2nA3x8eKSs0NUE


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On 2007-10-19, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:18:31 -0700, David Harmon
wrote:
How
much does used carbide go for per pound?

$8.50/lb as of Monday. It was as high as $9.25 last summer.


Ned, do you know how much does HSS go per pound?

i

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:50:30 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.
snip
=======
connect the dots.....

========
dot #1
AP
Dollar Hits Low Against Euro
Thursday October 18, 5:35 pm ET
By Erin Conroy, AP Business Writer
Dollar Drops to Low Against Euro Amid Weak Economic News From
Washington

NEW YORK (AP) -- The dollar fell to a new low against the euro on
Thursday after the 13-nation European currency broke through the
$1.43 mark on reports from Washington that growing economic
weakness was boosting jobless claims.
for rest of article click on
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071018/dollar.html?.v=2
========
dot #2

MF says dollar ‘overvalued’

By Chris Giles in London

Published: October 17 2007 14:00 | Last updated: October 17 2007
14:00

Currency traders were given a green light to continue selling the
US dollar on Wednesday, as the International Monetary Fund said
the greenback “remains overvalued” and rejected claims the euro
had risen too far.
for rest of article click on
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/e87f070e-7c9...lick_check= 1
==============
dot #3

October 18, 2007
Iraqi Contracts With Iran and China Concern U.S.
By JAMES GLANZ

BAGHDAD, Oct. 17 — Iraq has agreed to award $1.1 billion in
contracts to Iranian and Chinese companies to build a pair of
enormous power plants, the Iraqi electricity minister said
Tuesday. Word of the project prompted serious concerns among
American military officials, who fear that Iranian commercial
investments can mask military activities at a time of heightened
tension with Iran.
snip
The Iraqi electricity minister, Karim Wahid, said that the
Iranian project would be built in Sadr City, a Shiite enclave in
Baghdad that is controlled by followers of the anti-American
cleric Moktada al-Sadr. He added that Iran had also agreed to
provide cheap electricity from its own grid to southern Iraq, and
to build a large power plant essentially free of charge in an
area between the two southern Shiite holy cities of Karbala and
Najaf.
snip
The agreements between Iraq and Iran come after the American-led
reconstruction effort, which relied heavily on large American
contractors, has spent nearly $5 billion of United States
taxpayer money on Iraq’s electricity grid. Aside from a few
isolated bright spots, there was little clear impact in a nation
where in many places electricity is still available only for a
few hours each day.
snip
Of the two new projects Iraq has agreed to finance, Mr. Wahid
said, the largest is a $940 million power plant in Wasit to be
built by a Chinese company, which he said was named Shanghai
Heavy Industry. That project would pump some 1,300 megawatts of
electricity into the Iraqi grid. For comparison, all of the
plants currently connected to Iraq’s grid produce a total of
roughly 5,000 megawatts.
snip
for rest of article click on
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/wo...gewanted=print


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:06:32 -0500, Ignoramus1624
wrote:

On 2007-10-19, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:18:31 -0700, David Harmon
wrote:
How
much does used carbide go for per pound?

$8.50/lb as of Monday. It was as high as $9.25 last summer.


Ned, do you know how much does HSS go per pound?


I had a few hundred pounds of cutters from an auction lot a couple
years ago and couldn't find any way to get rid of that amount for more
than scrap steel price. But please let us know if you find a market
for small quantities.

--
Ned Simmons

On 2007-10-19, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:06:32 -0500, Ignoramus1624
wrote:

On 2007-10-19, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:18:31 -0700, David Harmon
wrote:
How
much does used carbide go for per pound?

$8.50/lb as of Monday. It was as high as $9.25 last summer.


Ned, do you know how much does HSS go per pound?


I had a few hundred pounds of cutters from an auction lot a couple
years ago and couldn't find any way to get rid of that amount for more
than scrap steel price. But please let us know if you find a market
for small quantities.


My scrapper gives me 1-1.20 per lb. I recently scrapped a large
quantity of taps.It is the same guy whose hinge I welded.

i

Ignoramus1624 wrote:

On 2007-10-19, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:06:32 -0500, Ignoramus1624
wrote:

On 2007-10-19, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:18:31 -0700, David Harmon
wrote:
How
much does used carbide go for per pound?

$8.50/lb as of Monday. It was as high as $9.25 last summer.


Ned, do you know how much does HSS go per pound?


I had a few hundred pounds of cutters from an auction lot a couple
years ago and couldn't find any way to get rid of that amount for more
than scrap steel price. But please let us know if you find a market
for small quantities.


My scrapper gives me 1-1.20 per lb. I recently scrapped a large
quantity of taps.It is the same guy whose hinge I welded.

i



colbalt M42 cutters have a high scrap value because of the colbalt in
the metal. Any alloy steel will bring more money than 10xx series
because of the added alloys. Thats why 300 series brings high scrap
prices. 316 series is the highest since it contains more nickel than
the rest.

John

We own a fishing tackle store here in South Africa - the price of
lead here too has rocketed - even here the lead is being sent to China
from the scrap merchants - not good for sinker prices !!!! Soon it
wont only be Bismuth sinkers that are outrageously priced !!!

Tim

Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get
pure tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than
lead! But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper
than tungsten. Iridium is almost double the density of pure lead, but an
ounce of iridium would be over seven hundred dollars. You'd have to be
one wildly successful fisherman to justify iridium sinkers...


and what is wrong with using a rock for a sinker? they are still free



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. net...

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.


An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold

Thank you. Yeah, inflation doth bite. At the same time, if you think
that the dollar has *ever* seen a high rate of inflation, you'll be in for
an awful shock when the petrodollar exclusivity is finally broken. Well,
SOME people will be, but I suspect you invest in resources rather than
currencies and are probably already aware of the upcoming period of
catastrophic inflation.

I can't help but notice how the value of the dollar is more closely related
to the price of crude than anything.

I agree----we're in for a lumpy ride in the near future.

This is the time to own "things", not money. I used to refine precious
metals. Sold my platinum WAY too soon. Who'd have ever thought it would
reach $1,400? sigh!

Harold

"Trevor Jones" wrote in message
newsDRRi.20450$G25.20306@edtnps89...
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
31...

Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.



An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold
Really, Harold.

Out of context, this looks like a huge devaluation. In context, not so
much.

Oh, contraire! It is a huge one. In my lifetime, I can recall 1st class
postage costing 3¢ (three cents, in the 50's and earlier), and a post card
only 1¢ (one cent). You don't think that's a huge devaluation? Increases
come regularly now, each of which is often as much as one used to pay for
posting a letter.


Better comparisons would be to look at the price of gold, etc, against
the monthly average wage.

Wages have increased a great deal, also, in the time frame. A guy that
could buy an ounce of gold on his payday then, can still pretty much buy
one now.

Inflation sucks, but comparing just one data point, such as "the price
then was..." is pretty much useless info.

Compare how long a person could live, on the sale of an ounce of gold,
then to current state.

That would be a little better comparison.

Cheers
Trevor Jones


That's the point, however. All those other things do is present more
examples of what I'm talking about. The fact is, the dollar is
worthless-----so everyone demands more of them to stay even. I simply used
an ounce of gold as an example. Could have just as easily used the house I
bought in '63 for $18,750. I sold it long ago, bit it would be "worth"
around $250,000 today. The dollar is worthless, there's no polite way to
say it. Nothing displays that better than the price of commodities today.

Surely, you remember when a barrel of crude was three dollars?

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. net...

"Trevor Jones" wrote in message
newsDRRi.20450$G25.20306@edtnps89...
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. 131...

Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.



An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold
Really, Harold.

Out of context, this looks like a huge devaluation. In context, not so
much.

Oh, contraire! It is a huge one. In my lifetime, I can recall 1st
class postage costing 3¢ (three cents, in the 50's and earlier), and a
post card only 1¢ (one cent). You don't think that's a huge
devaluation? Increases come regularly now, each of which is often as much
as one used to pay for posting a letter.


Better comparisons would be to look at the price of gold, etc, against
the monthly average wage.

Wages have increased a great deal, also, in the time frame. A guy that
could buy an ounce of gold on his payday then, can still pretty much buy
one now.

Inflation sucks, but comparing just one data point, such as "the price
then was..." is pretty much useless info.

Compare how long a person could live, on the sale of an ounce of gold,
then to current state.

That would be a little better comparison.

Cheers
Trevor Jones


That's the point, however. All those other things do is present more
examples of what I'm talking about. The fact is, the dollar is
worthless-----so everyone demands more of them to stay even. I simply
used an ounce of gold as an example. Could have just as easily used the
house I bought in '63 for $18,750. I sold it long ago, bit it would be
"worth" around $250,000 today. The dollar is worthless, there's no polite
way to say it. Nothing displays that better than the price of commodities
today.

Surely, you remember when a barrel of crude was three dollars?

Harold

There are plans to replace the US dollar with a regional currency. If that
actually comes to pass it will be the time to own things. I understand that
some of the new currency has already been minted. The plan calls for a
common currency for the US, Canada and Mexico. It will be intresting
to see what the exchange rate will be when US dollars are converted to
the new currency. Forgien investors may be in for real shock if they are
banking on the US dollar. It appears there would be a massive devaluation
of the greenback if this happens. BTW the pics i have seen of the AMERO
appear to be gold coinage.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=7058

Best Regards
Tom.

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:

Surely, you remember when a barrel of crude was three dollars?

Harold


Nope! I guess I'm just a pup. :-)

Best I can give you for a reference point, is that I can vagely recall
being kept home from school and shown the moon landing on TV (fuzzy
black and white), but not having a real idea of the signifigance.
25 cent was about what it cost me to get into a movie, about what I
made on a lawn, if I did a decent job of it. From what I have heard
lately, tha reference point seems to work, currently, if one is not
hiring a pro.

Back when you were paying 3 cent postage, you were being paid how much
in wages?

Sure prices have gone up. Proportianately, the real cost of living has
gone down, compared to what we earn. We have luxuries and conveniences
in our lives that were unimagined back in the days when a couple bucks a
day was a living wage.

I would be quite upset if I were to see my standard of living
backslide, while I made more money (and spent it) but I am not seeing that.

At the end of the accounting, the devaluation of the dollar, due to
inflation, makes an interesting academic point, but if we wish to see
the prices of that day, we must also accept the wages of that day. he
numbers are meaningless, unless held in perspective, with meaningful
reference points.

Going back to the old numbers won't make anyone any happier except the
accountants, 'cause they will get to use smaller numbers.
The well off, will still be, and the less well off, will also.

I think it will come as a shock to many Americans, to get used to
being part of the world economy, rather than being a controlling
interest in it.

As a Canadaian, we have been also-rans in the scheme of things for
quite a while, much due to concious decisions made by our government
(trade emphasis on export of raw materials, esp.), and it is a bit of a
shocker to see the dollar at or above par with the US. The last time
that happened, was in my lifetime, but before my awareness of same. I am
certain that the high Canadian dollar is causing howls of consternation
from several sectors, mostly in the export industries, as they are
dependant upon the difference to profit(more) in their trade.

We're not going to see a $2500 family sedan at the carlot anytime
soon, but we are not going to see wages back to the levels they were
then either.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:36:25 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Harold and Susan Vordos" quickly quoth:


I can't help but notice how the value of the dollar is more closely related
to the price of crude than anything.

Unfortunately, it's an inverse relationship. The higher the crude, the
lower the dollar.


I agree----we're in for a lumpy ride in the near future.

Agreed. sigh


This is the time to own "things", not money. I used to refine precious
metals. Sold my platinum WAY too soon. Who'd have ever thought it would
reach $1,400? sigh!

This is the time to be as self-sufficient as possible. Those "crazy
survivalists" weren't so crazy after all, were they?

It's time to update my bug-out bag, too, ah reckon.

--
History is often stranger than fiction. Fiction has to be plausible.
History is what happens when people don't follow the script.
--pete flip, RCM

"Ignoramus1624" wrote in message
...
On 2007-10-18, Adam Corolla wrote:

"Ignoramus1624" wrote in message
...
On 2007-10-18, F George McDuffee
wrote:
Note: Iran has begun to require payments in Yen from Japan, and
Euros from Europe for their oil, and China and the other large
holders of US dollars and dollar denominated securities are
forming "sovereign investment" entities, to exchange their
virtual dollar assets for equities including land, buildings and
large shares of American corporations.

Just who do these foreigners think they are, demanding that the
US redeem their IOUs? If PIK [payment in kind, where you make
the debt payments with more paper debt] is good enough for the US
banks and hedge funds it should be good enough for China and the
Arabs.

Immediately after the "mission accomplished" vistory over Saddam, I
exchanged a substantial amount of our dollars into euros, and held
them ever since. A decision that I am not at all regretting. I feel
much better with cash in euros rather than in dollars, though I still
have quite a lot of dollar assets -- but not 100%.

i

You were smart to invest in Euros then. I didn't know about any of this
until recently.

You did not know about our trade deficit, mounting debt, and
artificially low interest rates?

You are correct.


Though I'm no expert in this, I have a feeling that a sudden,
catastrophic
drop in the dollar's value could negatively impact the Euro as well, not
to
mention the entire world economy. I'm not saying it would devastate the
world economy, just that it wouldn't be good.

It would be a good thing, in my opinion, though it will obviously lead
to higher interest rates here in the US. Since US foreign debt is
denominated
in dollars (not typical), an option to av oid paying it is
inflation. Another outcome is a more responsible fiscal policy, and
more favorable trade balance.

I'm not on the same page, thinking a sudden, catastrophic drop in the dollar
would be a good thing. Unless you're considering the viewpoint of countries
like Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran, which would be just as valid as any other.

To me, all currency is just an IOU which can be voided at any time. Of
course, nothing is 100% proof against loss, but I feel better putting my
money in hard assets.

Make sure that the "hard assets" earn you money while you are holding
them. Here, I am a little bit preaching to do what I say rather than
what I do, since for a few years I held 7 100 oz silver bars. But that
was because I thought that silver was underpriced.

:-)

"David Harmon" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:17:43 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Adam
Corolla" wrote,
Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get
pure
tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than lead!
But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper than
tungsten.

Some time ago I found a used carbide diamond-shaped tool insert lying on
the sidewalk. I don't use insert tooling, so I was surprised to find how
heavy it was for the small size. Tungsten carbide, presumably. How
much does used carbide go for per pound? Would sinkers or boat keels
molded of used inserts embedded in epoxy be economical?

Well, tungsten carbide is of course much less dense than pure tungsten, but
still denser than lead I believe. I guess it would depend on the ratio. My
guess is that they would not be economical--due to the much higher price of
tungsten scrap vs. lead scrap.

"Trevor Jones" wrote in message
newsDRRi.20450$G25.20306@edtnps89...
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
31...

Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.



An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold
Really, Harold.

Out of context, this looks like a huge devaluation. In context, not so
much.

Better comparisons would be to look at the price of gold, etc, against
the monthly average wage.

Wages have increased a great deal, also, in the time frame. A guy that
could buy an ounce of gold on his payday then, can still pretty much buy
one now.

Inflation sucks, but comparing just one data point, such as "the price
then was..." is pretty much useless info.

Compare how long a person could live, on the sale of an ounce of gold,
then to current state.

That would be a little better comparison.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Agreed.

However, something odd has happened with the prices of aluminum, tin, zinc,
nickel, copper, lead, silver, gold and platinum. Over the past five years
the price increase of all these has averaged way more than 100%; however, if
you look at the prices on a graph, the increase was more gradual up to fall
of 2005, then the rate of increase took a sharp upturn.

What happened in the fall of 2005 to account for this?

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"David Harmon" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:17:43 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Adam
Corolla" wrote,
Then you'll have to go with tungsten, or maybe iridium... You can get
pure
tungsten for three dollars an ounce, and it's about 75% heavier than
lead!
But I guess even with lead's price increase, it's still much cheaper than
tungsten.

Some time ago I found a used carbide diamond-shaped tool insert lying on
the sidewalk. I don't use insert tooling, so I was surprised to find how
heavy it was for the small size. Tungsten carbide, presumably. How
much does used carbide go for per pound? Would sinkers or boat keels
molded of used inserts embedded in epoxy be economical?

Well, tungsten carbide is of course much less dense than pure tungsten,
but still denser than lead I believe. I guess it would depend on the
ratio. My guess is that they would not be economical--due to the much
higher price of tungsten scrap vs. lead scrap.

The biggest problem you'd face is fabricating. How would you propose it be
fashioned? Tungsten melts at such a high temperature that it is not
feasible to melt the stuff. It's generally handled via powder metallurgy.
It's clearly beyond the ability of the average home type individual.
Damned expensive, too.

Harold

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Jones" wrote in message
newsDRRi.20450$G25.20306@edtnps89...
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. 131...

Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.



An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold
Really, Harold.

Out of context, this looks like a huge devaluation. In context, not so
much.

Better comparisons would be to look at the price of gold, etc, against
the monthly average wage.

Wages have increased a great deal, also, in the time frame. A guy that
could buy an ounce of gold on his payday then, can still pretty much buy
one now.

Inflation sucks, but comparing just one data point, such as "the price
then was..." is pretty much useless info.

Compare how long a person could live, on the sale of an ounce of gold,
then to current state.

That would be a little better comparison.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Agreed.

However, something odd has happened with the prices of aluminum, tin,
zinc, nickel, copper, lead, silver, gold and platinum. Over the past five
years the price increase of all these has averaged way more than 100%;
however, if you look at the prices on a graph, the increase was more
gradual up to fall of 2005, then the rate of increase took a sharp upturn.

What happened in the fall of 2005 to account for this?


My opinion?

The perceived "success" of China. They're busy selling goods made by wages
that are considerably lower than those in other countries. Needless to
say, demand is high, even with questionable quality, and in order to
provide, they must have raw materials. There's nothing better than a
shortage of any substance to create an unreasonable market.

My thoughts on this entire matter are that those of us that have had things
good---have lost our perspective. We are used to unearned money, and
continue to demand ever more. Along comes China, a country that is willing
to work for little, and floods the world with goods at low prices. Pretty
soon, the guy that's been building widgets, earning his $30/hr wages is no
longer in demand, for the guy in China, that's being paid far less, is
willing to make widgets. That concept cascades, and soon the only products
that are made here are those that are proprietary, if even them.

Our unquenched greed is coming home to roost.

Everyone is in for one hell of a shock as we come to realize we are no
longer an island, that we are, indeed, part of the balance of the world, and
in order for us to exist, we must be competitive with the average. The
day of unearned money is gone----and many will suffer the consequences of
having demanded pay beyond their worth.

None of this is news, is it? Didn't this get started back in the 70's?
Weren't the majority of machine tool builders gone by the mid 90's-----no
longer able to compete? Any of this surprises you?

Harold

"Hawke" wrote:

I can understand the price of brass and lead going through the roof. They
are going through unreal amounts of ammunition in Iraq. The ammo producers
are having a hard time keeping up. I tried to buy 2000 .38 caliber lead
bullets from my regular supplier last month and they didn't have any,
haven't had any for a long time, and don't know when they will get more.
They blamed it on the war, which is probably right. I have seen the price
for .45 ACP lead bullets go up just about every time I reorder. A year or so
ago I was paying something like four or five cents a bullet. I just got a
1000 bullets last week and it cost me 90 bucks. It's getting to the point
where I am going to have to start casting bullets again. I go through a lot
of lead and the price is getting so high that casting is starting to become
a reality again. But it's so boring and time consuming I hate to have to
start doing it again.

Hawke


OSB prices went nuts after start of the war and are back to normal or at
least close to it.

Casting lead isn't that boring. Since you apparently reload already you have
some tolerance for repeated manual opperations. For pistol work cast lead
works just fine. I tend to watch tv (cspan) while casting so it isn't
totally dead time.

I gotta rebuild my 50 yard backstop next year. I made it out of 4' x 4'
panels of scrap osb from work a few years ago built into a box filled with
sand. The OSB has failed on one side. I'm going to use pressure treated
this time and it think it is time to sift the sand that fills it to get my
lead back.

Cast is good stuff for many applications. http://www.castbulletassoc.org/

If you are sold on jacketed, have you considerd swaging aka corbin?

Wes

On Oct 15, 12:47 pm, john wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:
Richard J Kinch wrote:

Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard don't
look so crazy.

the chinese are using up all the lead to make paint for toys.

The Chinese are not paronoid like we are in the US. We treat lead like
U238 uranium because of all the hype from the media. Don't eat lead or
lead paint. Dont eat **** either, neither is too good for you.

John

You apparently haven't been watching the news lately concerning the
crap in YOUR food supply.

Hmm..mmmm...good...can I have another crap burger?

TMT

On Oct 15, 12:32 pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:00:52 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20 cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard don't
look so crazy.

You're going to have to put a burglar alarm
on that sailboat keel of yours...

Im gonna have to start using silver or gold for bullets....

Gunner

How about rubber?

TMT

On Oct 16, 9:44 am, Louis Ohland wrote:
Louis Ohland wrote:
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=7229

Of Meat and Myth

As popular myth would have it, there were no government inspectors
before Congress acted in response to "The Jungle" and the greedy meat
packers fought federal inspection all the way. The truth is that not
only did government inspection exist, but meat packers themselves
supported it and were in the forefront of the effort to extend it!

When the sensational accusations of "The Jungle" became worldwide news,
foreign purchases of American meat were cut in half and the meatpackers
looked for new regulations to give their markets a calming sense of
security. The only congressional hearings on what ultimately became the
Meat Inspection Act of 1906 were held by Congressman James Wadsworth's
Agriculture Committee between June 6 and 11. A careful reading of the
deliberations of the Wadsworth committee and the subsequent floor debate
leads inexorably to one conclusion: Knowing that a new law would allay
public fears fanned by "The Jungle," bring smaller competitors under
regulation, and put a newly laundered government stamp of approval on
their products, the major meat packers strongly endorsed the proposed
act and only quibbled over who should pay for it.

In the end, Americans got a new federal meat inspection law. The big
packers got the taxpayers to pick up the entire $3 million price tag for
its implementation as well as new regulations on their smaller
competitors, and another myth entered the annals of anti-market dogma.

To his credit, Upton Sinclair actually opposed the law because he saw it
for what it really was - a boon for the big meat packers.10 Far from a
crusading and objective truth-seeker, Sinclair was a fool and a sucker
who ended up being used by the very industry he hated.

Myths die hard. What you've just read is not at all "politically
correct." But defending the market from historical attack begins with
explaining what really happened. Those who persist in the shallow claim
that "The Jungle" stands as a compelling indictment of the market should
clean up their act because upon inspection, there seems to be an
unpleasant odor hovering over it.



John wrote:
Read a book " The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair about the US meat industry
at the turn of the last century.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is no myth the conditions of the meat packing industry at that
time...I had several ancestors working in those houses and their
personal stories match "the Jungle" well.

I can also tell you that after most people go through a packing house,
their personal meat consumption goes down after seeing what goes on.

TMT

On Oct 16, 10:34 pm, "Hawke" wrote:
"Louis Ohland" wrote in message

...





Louis Ohland wrote:
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=7229

Of Meat and Myth

As popular myth would have it, there were no government inspectors
before Congress acted in response to "The Jungle" and the greedy meat
packers fought federal inspection all the way. The truth is that not
only did government inspection exist, but meat packers themselves
supported it and were in the forefront of the effort to extend it!

When the sensational accusations of "The Jungle" became worldwide news,
foreign purchases of American meat were cut in half and the meatpackers
looked for new regulations to give their markets a calming sense of
security. The only congressional hearings on what ultimately became the
Meat Inspection Act of 1906 were held by Congressman James Wadsworth's
Agriculture Committee between June 6 and 11. A careful reading of the
deliberations of the Wadsworth committee and the subsequent floor debate
leads inexorably to one conclusion: Knowing that a new law would allay
public fears fanned by "The Jungle," bring smaller competitors under
regulation, and put a newly laundered government stamp of approval on
their products, the major meat packers strongly endorsed the proposed
act and only quibbled over who should pay for it.

In the end, Americans got a new federal meat inspection law. The big
packers got the taxpayers to pick up the entire $3 million price tag for
its implementation as well as new regulations on their smaller
competitors, and another myth entered the annals of anti-market dogma.

To his credit, Upton Sinclair actually opposed the law because he saw it
for what it really was - a boon for the big meat packers.10 Far from a
crusading and objective truth-seeker, Sinclair was a fool and a sucker
who ended up being used by the very industry he hated.

Myths die hard. What you've just read is not at all "politically
correct." But defending the market from historical attack begins with
explaining what really happened. Those who persist in the shallow claim
that "The Jungle" stands as a compelling indictment of the market should
clean up their act because upon inspection, there seems to be an
unpleasant odor hovering over it.

So the accusations about the US meat packing industry being a dirty,
sickeningly filthy unregulated business were all untrue? It was a model of
modern, clean, sanitary production facilities for producing quality food for
human consumption? Yeah, and I have a bridge I would like to sell you. How
many times do we have to see what unregulated business does when there are
no inspectors? In my town we have a "plume of contaminated aquifer running
through the middle of town from where dry cleaning companies dumped toxic
chemicals in the ground and sewers. We have an area where the old Diamond
Match Company used to produce matches and did the same thing to the ground,
and we have a dump that has to be completely dug up and processed because of
toxics left there from unregulated dumping. That is just in my dinky town.
Multiply that by thousands and you know what happens when nobody is watching
what businesses are doing. Any place business is left unregulated the story
is always the same. They pollute like crazy, leave their business sites in
shambles and disappear when it's time to pay for it. It's gotten worse since
Bush took over and allowed and fostered an old fashioned leave business to
regulate itself attitude. Reducing the consumer product safety agency from
1,100 to 400 is a good example. Leave business to police itself and we pay
the price.

Hawke- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

good discussion...and accurate.

TMT

On Oct 19, 2:36 am, "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Adam Corolla" wrote in message

...







"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
.net...

"Adam Corolla" wrote in message
om...

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
31...
Lead is at $1.80/lb these days, up from 40 cents a year ago and 20
cents
five years ago.

http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/lead_historical.html

What is the problem with world market for this metal?

Suddenly those neurotic hoards of old car batteries in the back yard
don't
look so crazy.

It looks like the price of all the metals listed on that site (Aluminum,
zinc, nickel and copper in addition to lead) have undergone dramatic
increases in the last two years.

Though lead has increased more than other metals, my take is that the
metals aren't increasing in value so much as the value of the dollar is
dropping.

An excellent observation. You want to put it in perspective?

An ounce of gold still weighs 480 grains, but it now takes about $760 of
our useless dollars to purchase one. Official gold valuation, prior to
1933, was $20.67/ounce.

Harold

Thank you. Yeah, inflation doth bite. At the same time, if you think
that the dollar has *ever* seen a high rate of inflation, you'll be in for
an awful shock when the petrodollar exclusivity is finally broken. Well,
SOME people will be, but I suspect you invest in resources rather than
currencies and are probably already aware of the upcoming period of
catastrophic inflation.

I can't help but notice how the value of the dollar is more closely related
to the price of crude than anything.

I agree----we're in for a lumpy ride in the near future.

This is the time to own "things", not money. I used to refine precious
metals. Sold my platinum WAY too soon. Who'd have ever thought it would
reach $1,400? sigh!

Harold- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The ride is going to be lumpy for more than the near future.

The baby boomers are retiring...which will be a significant drain on
the US economy.

And their future SS payments have been in spent in Iraq.

Review the lessons of the 1970s...history is going to repeat itself.

TMT