I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it. I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:46 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:

I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it. I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

Metalworking is kind of a niche market I guess. They should ship it to
you for free in the continental US if you have a few weeks (but it's a
$169 bandsaw, if that's okay with you). You can order it from their
website: Item: 37151-7VGA


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:46 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:

I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it.
I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

Metalworking is kind of a niche market I guess. They should ship it to
you for free in the continental US if you have a few weeks (but it's a
$169 bandsaw, if that's okay with you). You can order it from their
website: Item: 37151-7VGA


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--

Got all that. I'm just amazed that I can't find one locally.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:xJkzc.69857$My6.66021@fed1read05...
I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it.
I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this

The one down the street has them. The other one had them, but I haven't
looked in a while. When the local store opened they were on sale for $150.

Joel. phx

puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

SteveB writes:

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw

You sure those are for metal? Never seen anything but woodworking blades
at the local Home Depot.

SteveB wrote:

I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it. I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale items.

Dan Mitchell
==========

Daniel A. Mitchell wrote:

The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale items.

What used to be fun was looking through a HF mail flyer and seeing how
many times a given item was listed under different stock numbers and
different prices but was the exact same item with the exact same
description and picture.

They seem to have caught on to that. The last several catalogs may list
the same item on different pages, but the stock numbers and prices are
the same.

"Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote in message
...

The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale items.

I placed an order for 3 items. 1 arrived in a day or two leading me to
think it was shipped locally. The other 2 arrived a week later, one of
those items was an "internet only" and not available in stores. Made me how
exactly they tackle that free shipping on big items.

Joel. phx


Dan Mitchell
==========

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
. ..
SteveB writes:

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw

You sure those are for metal? Never seen anything but woodworking blades
at the local Home Depot.

Yup. Says so right on the package. That was the first thing I looked for.
They DO have a selection of wood blades, too.

Steve

"Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote in message
...

The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale items.

I placed an order for 3 items. 1 arrived in a day or two leading me to
think it was shipped locally. The other 2 arrived a week later, one of
those items was an "internet only" and not available in stores. Made me
how
exactly they tackle that free shipping on big items.

Joel. phx


I got back from HF this morning empty handed after attempting to buy a
horizontal bandsaw. I looked at their website. I got the part number for
the one I wanted. I called, hoping to get a manager, or at least someone
intelligent. I got a cashier who said, "Oh, yes. We have those. They are
on sale for $149.99 and I have four". I related the story about being there
earlier today, and being told they didn't carry them. She put me on hold,
came back and said they had four.

Sooooooooooo, I trucked cross town .................. again ................
and picked one up. Whilst there, I told the intelligent salesgirl to show
the other one where they were so that she could help sell them in the future
instead of turning customers away. The unintelligent one chirped, "Oh, I
know where they are." I clenched my jaw and waited for them to come out of
the cavern with my saw. The little male geek put it in the back of the
truck. It is now at home. And I have a couple of extra blades. And it is
103 outside right now in Las Vegas.

I bought it so I can start sawing at 5 AM without alienating the neighbors
with my obnoxious Makita chop saw. I am looking forward to using it.

Sales people ............................... arrrrgghhhhhhh

Steve

While you're waiting for 5AM, have a look at the FAQ for those little
saws: http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html

Grant

SteveB wrote:

"Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote in message
...


The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale items.

I placed an order for 3 items. 1 arrived in a day or two leading me to
think it was shipped locally. The other 2 arrived a week later, one of
those items was an "internet only" and not available in stores. Made me

how

exactly they tackle that free shipping on big items.

Joel. phx



I got back from HF this morning empty handed after attempting to buy a
horizontal bandsaw. I looked at their website. I got the part number for
the one I wanted. I called, hoping to get a manager, or at least someone
intelligent. I got a cashier who said, "Oh, yes. We have those. They are
on sale for $149.99 and I have four". I related the story about being there
earlier today, and being told they didn't carry them. She put me on hold,
came back and said they had four.

Sooooooooooo, I trucked cross town .................. again ................
and picked one up. Whilst there, I told the intelligent salesgirl to show
the other one where they were so that she could help sell them in the future
instead of turning customers away. The unintelligent one chirped, "Oh, I
know where they are." I clenched my jaw and waited for them to come out of
the cavern with my saw. The little male geek put it in the back of the
truck. It is now at home. And I have a couple of extra blades. And it is
103 outside right now in Las Vegas.

I bought it so I can start sawing at 5 AM without alienating the neighbors
with my obnoxious Makita chop saw. I am looking forward to using it.

Sales people ............................... arrrrgghhhhhhh

Steve

Are you sure you want this piece of crap? Why not look for a used real
one? (i.e. an old one with some cast iron in it). I once got a 14"
Grizzly used with a bunch of other stuff and it was a total thorn in
my side. Eventually I tore it down and totally rebuilt it with a lot
of redesign. It worked well after that, but I could have better spent
the time and energy. At the same time I was having this headache my
friend picked up a Rockwell for $150.

Robobass

"SteveB" wrote in message news:xJkzc.69857$My6.66021@fed1read05...
I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it. I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
While you're waiting for 5AM, have a look at the FAQ for those little
saws: http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html

Grant

SteveB wrote:
bandsaw story snipped

Thanks, Grant. Some of the things mentioned are really obvious. For
starters, I opened the box and took the first two pieces out ........... the
"legs". Right then, I said, "Self, the first thing to do is make a decent
cart/table for this thing. These legs aren't going to last a week, even on
the best of floors." (I am currently working on a dirt floor area.) Now I
gotta go to Homer's and get a couple of decent wheels.

The other info and FAQs will help me once I have it fired up and
operational. But I can see that this topheavy moose antlered machine is
going to need better footing before I even plug it in.

Just what I needed. More projects.................... But I don't mind
making better tools and equipment that make life easier. I am anticipating
cutting several square tubes at a time quietly now instead of the growling
snarling one at a time chop saw thingy. Chuck it up, turn it on, let it go,
go do something else, come back when they are done. Gotta be better than
the chopper. I used a cold saw a few times, and that is better, but I think
I am really going to like this setup.

Once I get it set up, that is.

Again, thanks for the info.

Steve

"robobass" wrote in message
om...
Are you sure you want this piece of crap? Why not look for a used real
one? (i.e. an old one with some cast iron in it). I once got a 14"
Grizzly used with a bunch of other stuff and it was a total thorn in
my side. Eventually I tore it down and totally rebuilt it with a lot
of redesign. It worked well after that, but I could have better spent
the time and energy. At the same time I was having this headache my
friend picked up a Rockwell for $150.

Robobass

Why would I knowingly want to buy a problem?

Steve

Make the tools to make the tools to make the tools :-)

SteveB wrote:

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...

While you're waiting for 5AM, have a look at the FAQ for those little
saws: http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html

Grant

SteveB wrote:

bandsaw story snipped

Thanks, Grant. Some of the things mentioned are really obvious. For
starters, I opened the box and took the first two pieces out ........... the
"legs". Right then, I said, "Self, the first thing to do is make a decent
cart/table for this thing. These legs aren't going to last a week, even on
the best of floors." (I am currently working on a dirt floor area.) Now I
gotta go to Homer's and get a couple of decent wheels.

The other info and FAQs will help me once I have it fired up and
operational. But I can see that this topheavy moose antlered machine is
going to need better footing before I even plug it in.

Just what I needed. More projects.................... But I don't mind
making better tools and equipment that make life easier. I am anticipating
cutting several square tubes at a time quietly now instead of the growling
snarling one at a time chop saw thingy. Chuck it up, turn it on, let it go,
go do something else, come back when they are done. Gotta be better than
the chopper. I used a cold saw a few times, and that is better, but I think
I am really going to like this setup.

Once I get it set up, that is.

Again, thanks for the info.

Steve



--
James P Crombie
Slemon Park, PEI
Canada
Machinist - 3D Cad Design - Amateur Astronomer

http://www.jamescrombie.com

Steve: I'm building a double opening driveway gate that I'll be installing
in Las Vegas mid August. Maybe we can get together and become acquainted? I
seem to get up to Vegas a couple of times a year. I've been met and visited
with Sunworshiper and am always interested in meeting a fellow metal worker.
You up for a visit? I live in Tucson.

Mike

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:6oozc.70697$My6.2737@fed1read05...

"Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote in message
...

The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the
catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail
order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all
over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale
items.

I placed an order for 3 items. 1 arrived in a day or two leading me to
think it was shipped locally. The other 2 arrived a week later, one of
those items was an "internet only" and not available in stores. Made me
how
exactly they tackle that free shipping on big items.

Joel. phx


I got back from HF this morning empty handed after attempting to buy a
horizontal bandsaw. I looked at their website. I got the part number for
the one I wanted. I called, hoping to get a manager, or at least someone
intelligent. I got a cashier who said, "Oh, yes. We have those. They
are
on sale for $149.99 and I have four". I related the story about being
there
earlier today, and being told they didn't carry them. She put me on hold,
came back and said they had four.

Sooooooooooo, I trucked cross town .................. again
.................
and picked one up. Whilst there, I told the intelligent salesgirl to show
the other one where they were so that she could help sell them in the
future
instead of turning customers away. The unintelligent one chirped, "Oh, I
know where they are." I clenched my jaw and waited for them to come out
of
the cavern with my saw. The little male geek put it in the back of the
truck. It is now at home. And I have a couple of extra blades. And it
is
103 outside right now in Las Vegas.

I bought it so I can start sawing at 5 AM without alienating the neighbors
with my obnoxious Makita chop saw. I am looking forward to using it.

Sales people ............................... arrrrgghhhhhhh

Steve

Piece of crap???? I'll take a guess that you've never owned one...

I've had mine for about 3 years now and it's the best $129.99 I ever spent.
This little saw does everything I ask of it. It might not be as fancy as
the expensive units but it will cut the same metal every bit as straight as
anything else out there.

Robert

"robobass" wrote in message
om...
Are you sure you want this piece of crap? Why not look for a used real
one? (i.e. an old one with some cast iron in it). I once got a 14"
Grizzly used with a bunch of other stuff and it was a total thorn in
my side. Eventually I tore it down and totally rebuilt it with a lot
of redesign. It worked well after that, but I could have better spent
the time and energy. At the same time I was having this headache my
friend picked up a Rockwell for $150.

Robobass

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:xJkzc.69857$My6.66021@fed1read05...
I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry
it. I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the
larger
more available ones.

"Siggy" wrote in message
. ..
Piece of crap???? I'll take a guess that you've never owned one...

I've had mine for about 3 years now and it's the best $129.99 I ever
spent.
This little saw does everything I ask of it. It might not be as fancy as
the expensive units but it will cut the same metal every bit as straight
as
anything else out there.


The tinfoil base sucks, but I was out there today using the cutting part to
make a base for the new saw. From what I've seen so far, I'm impressed.
Not fast, but cuts straight with less slag, sparks, noise, and dust than the
old chop saw. Will be finishing up the stand tomorrow, and then on to
finishing some wrought iron projects I am on.

I am really interested in seeing what it will do cutting multiple square
tubes. Figure it should take a bit, but I can be deburring them and
cleaning them while the next bunch is cutting. I will have a bunch of
spindles to cut, too, and want to see if I can cut bundles of four or nine
1/2" tubes at once.

Even if I can choke it down, and it won't cut all I can feed into it, I like
this little saw so far.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
"robobass" wrote in message
om...
Are you sure you want this piece of crap? Why not look for a used
real one? (i.e. an old one with some cast iron in it). I once got a
14" Grizzly used with a bunch of other stuff and it was a total
thorn in my side. Eventually I tore it down and totally rebuilt it
with a lot of redesign. It worked well after that, but I could have
better spent the time and energy. At the same time I was having this
headache my friend picked up a Rockwell for $150.

Robobass

Why would I knowingly want to buy a problem?

Steve

Are you sure you're in the right newsgroup? :-)

"ATP" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"robobass" wrote in message
om...
Are you sure you want this piece of crap? Why not look for a used
real one? (i.e. an old one with some cast iron in it). I once got a
14" Grizzly used with a bunch of other stuff and it was a total
thorn in my side. Eventually I tore it down and totally rebuilt it
with a lot of redesign. It worked well after that, but I could have
better spent the time and energy. At the same time I was having this
headache my friend picked up a Rockwell for $150.

Robobass

Why would I knowingly want to buy a problem?

Steve

Are you sure you're in the right newsgroup? :-)



I must not be. I thought this one was rec.crafts.metalworking and you seem
to say it is rec.machinery.rebuilding.

My mistake. Sorry.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
news:6oozc.70697$My6.2737@fed1read05...

I got back from HF this morning empty handed after attempting to buy a
horizontal bandsaw. I looked at their website. I got the part number for
the one I wanted. I called, hoping to get a manager, or at least someone
intelligent. I got a cashier who said, "Oh, yes. We have those. They
are
on sale for $149.99 and I have four". I related the story about being
there
earlier today, and being told they didn't carry them. She put me on hold,
came back and said they had four.

Should have bought two in case you smashed one with a sledge hammer like a
long hair'd tatto'd biker builder named Billy,...

Sooooooooooo, I trucked cross town .................. again
.................
and picked one up. Whilst there, I told the intelligent salesgirl to show
the other one where they were so that she could help sell them in the
future
instead of turning customers away. The unintelligent one chirped, "Oh, I
know where they are." I clenched my jaw and waited for them to come out
of
the cavern with my saw. The little male geek put it in the back of the
truck. It is now at home. And I have a couple of extra blades. And it
is
103 outside right now in Las Vegas.

Careful now, you'll be labeled a stanch conservative, corporate loving,
labor hating evil monger who eats babies.

Actually, the guys at the further HF really hustle butt unlike those lazy
bums touring with Homier.

Joel. phx


I bought it so I can start sawing at 5 AM without alienating the neighbors
with my obnoxious Makita chop saw. I am looking forward to using it.

I like my $90 parknswap saw, though I will have to make the downswing
modification at some point. Mine didn't come with the cheap stand so I
can't comment.


Sales people ............................... arrrrgghhhhhhh

Steve

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:39:34 -0400, "Daniel A. Mitchell" wrote:
The harbor freight retail stores are some kind of separate operation
from the mail order one. The stores do not necessarily carry the same
merchandise (though often do), and cannot order items from the catalog.
Store personnel say they have little or no connection to the mail order
operation, though the common merchandise and trademarks belies this.
They have separate mailings and advertising flyers. Pricing is all over
the place, with the mail order being cheaper on some items, and the
store on others. Each organization sets their own price, and sale items.

Yep, they operate at arm's length so the mailorder part won't be subject
to every state and local sales tax where they have a retail presence. The
state and local tax folks are squalling about this, but so far I've been able
to avoid the 6% sales tax by ordering from the catalog instead of driving
3 miles down the road and buying at HF's storefront.

With the current high gas prices, and HF's free freight, I save even more
by staying home and using their website. The only problem with that is you
don't get to eyeball and touch the tool before buying it. As a result, I've
received a few items which weren't quite what I expected. So I often do
drive down to the store, eyeball what I want, then go home and order it.
I only actually buy from the storefront when I *need it now*.

Having UPS drop a HF box on the porch is a bit like Christmas. Because
their shipping is usually so slow, I've often forgotten what orders I have
pending by the time the box shows up. So I get the fun of ripping open
the box to see what goodies I bought me this time.

Gary

SteveB wrote in message ...

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:52:46 -0700, the renowned "SteveB"
wrote:

I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry
it.
I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the
larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

Metalworking is kind of a niche market I guess. They should ship it to
you for free in the continental US if you have a few weeks (but it's a
$169 bandsaw, if that's okay with you). You can order it from their
website: Item: 37151-7VGA


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--



Got all that. I'm just amazed that I can't find one locally.

if you ask, they will explain that their retail stores, website, and catalog
sales are three distinct and diferent business operations -
don't ask why

HTH
Dale


Steve

One thing to really watch out for with the HF unit: overheating! At
the school where I teach we have one of these saws, and we were using
it to cut off some aluminum from a block approx 2" x 2" square solid
bar.

I guess we had the pulley ratio too high, because after a while the
blade got stuck and stopped moving. Of course this was when we all
went out to lunch, and when we got back the motor had overheated and
seized (permanently).

HF did replace the motor, but the machine was down for weeks while we
waited for it. A simple thermistor or other thermal cutoff would have
saved the day...

Neil

"Neil" wrote in message
...
One thing to really watch out for with the HF unit: overheating! At
the school where I teach we have one of these saws, and we were using
it to cut off some aluminum from a block approx 2" x 2" square solid
bar.

I guess we had the pulley ratio too high, because after a while the
blade got stuck and stopped moving. Of course this was when we all
went out to lunch, and when we got back the motor had overheated and
seized (permanently).

HF did replace the motor, but the machine was down for weeks while we
waited for it. A simple thermistor or other thermal cutoff would have
saved the day...

Neil


You left it running, and went to lunch? You were lucky you didn't lose the
building.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message news:xJkzc.69857$My6.66021@fed1read05...
I just went to HF to get the $175 bandsaw. They say they don't carry it. I
was amazed. I thought every HF store carries this. Does the HF in your
area stock them, and how much. I have e mailed HF to see how much this
puppy will cost landed in my yard, and Northern Tools, too.

I need one of these, but don't feel like spending the $700 for the larger
more available ones.

PS: got a couple of Ridgid blades at Home Depot for $10 each. Now if I
just had a saw ...................

Steve

I have never been in an HF store that didn't have the bandsaw as well
as the drill presses, welders and other metalworking gear. Is it a
small store front, maybe? What does the place carry, lawn ornaments?
My 4x6 was $129 out the door, no shipping charge and no shipping
damage. The stores frequently knock $10 or so off the discount web
and catalog price during their store sales.

Stan

Neil wrote in message . ..
One thing to really watch out for with the HF unit: overheating! At
the school where I teach we have one of these saws, and we were using
it to cut off some aluminum from a block approx 2" x 2" square solid
bar.

When cutting aluminum, keep the blade wet with spirits or even WD-40.
They plug up and sieze rather easily, it doesn't take much to prevent
it, and gives a much better looking cut. I just brush a little
spirits on the blade while it's cutting. The anti spatter spray works
well too, but more expensive than I can justify.

Gary Coffman wrote:

snipped

Yep, they operate at arm's length so the mailorder part won't be subject
to every state and local sales tax where they have a retail presence. The
state and local tax folks are squalling about this, but so far I've been able
to avoid the 6% sales tax by ordering from the catalog instead of driving
3 miles down the road and buying at HF's storefront.

I'm not being critical, and definitely not holier than thou Gary, but it
would suprise me if the state you live in doesn't have a law on the
books saying it's *your* responsibility to "fess up" and pay the
equivalent sales tax to your state yourself.

Starting (I think in 2002) my current home state of Taxachusetts added a
line to the personal income tax return form for reporting those untaxed
out of state purchases, with instructions on how to compute the tax and
pay it with your income taxes. It would be fun to learn how many folks
complied.

Since Beantown is only about 40 minutes away from several New Hampshire
shopping malls, and there's no sales tax in New Hampshire, you can
pretty well guess where lots of folks do their weekend shopping. (New
Hampshire's state motto, as emblazoned on their license plates, is "Live
Free or Die.")

I quit smoking about ten years ago, but some of the folks I know who are
still hooked admit to smuggling "coffin nails" across the border for
friends and coworkers, because of the dramatically lower prices in New
Hampshire.

The Boston Globe ran a piece last week about our Attorney General suing
several web cigarette shops (and I think maybe UPS too.) for violating
tobacco and sales tax laws.



IIRC Dennis Kozlowsky (The toppled Tyco tycoon.) started having his art
purchases delivered by truck to his New Hampshire summer home to avoid
the 8.5% New York sales tax and then sneaked them back to his Manhattan
abode. Later on he got greedier and had empty crates shipped; the
paintings just stayed in New York. "Once a crook, always a crook"

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/tyc...ki60402ind.pdf

The continuing rise of web based businesses is probably going to make
the minions of the sales tax laws find more effective ways that just our
consciences to make us render Caesar's due to him.

Just my .02,

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

They would already have a nationwide sales tax on online sales except for
the myriad of tax laws on the books. There is a giant effort underway to
standardize tax laws. This is being done largely out of the public eye.
The reasoning is obvious: the states know damn well they are losing sales
tax to online sales, and they are all hurting for money. I bet it will only
be a few more years of no sales tax for online purchasing. - GWE

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Gary Coffman wrote:

snipped


Yep, they operate at arm's length so the mailorder part won't be subject
to every state and local sales tax where they have a retail presence. The
state and local tax folks are squalling about this, but so far I've
been able
to avoid the 6% sales tax by ordering from the catalog instead of driving
3 miles down the road and buying at HF's storefront.


I'm not being critical, and definitely not holier than thou Gary, but it
would suprise me if the state you live in doesn't have a law on the
books saying it's *your* responsibility to "fess up" and pay the
equivalent sales tax to your state yourself.

Starting (I think in 2002) my current home state of Taxachusetts added a
line to the personal income tax return form for reporting those untaxed
out of state purchases, with instructions on how to compute the tax and
pay it with your income taxes. It would be fun to learn how many folks
complied.

Since Beantown is only about 40 minutes away from several New Hampshire
shopping malls, and there's no sales tax in New Hampshire, you can
pretty well guess where lots of folks do their weekend shopping. (New
Hampshire's state motto, as emblazoned on their license plates, is "Live
Free or Die.")

I quit smoking about ten years ago, but some of the folks I know who are
still hooked admit to smuggling "coffin nails" across the border for
friends and coworkers, because of the dramatically lower prices in New
Hampshire.

The Boston Globe ran a piece last week about our Attorney General suing
several web cigarette shops (and I think maybe UPS too.) for violating
tobacco and sales tax laws.



IIRC Dennis Kozlowsky (The toppled Tyco tycoon.) started having his art
purchases delivered by truck to his New Hampshire summer home to avoid
the 8.5% New York sales tax and then sneaked them back to his Manhattan
abode. Later on he got greedier and had empty crates shipped; the
paintings just stayed in New York. "Once a crook, always a crook"

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/tyc...ki60402ind.pdf

The continuing rise of web based businesses is probably going to make
the minions of the sales tax laws find more effective ways that just our
consciences to make us render Caesar's due to him.

Just my .02,

Jeff

In article , Grant Erwin says...

They would already have a nationwide sales tax on online sales except for
the myriad of tax laws on the books. There is a giant effort underway to
standardize tax laws. This is being done largely out of the public eye.
The reasoning is obvious: the states know damn well they are losing sales
tax to online sales, and they are all hurting for money. I bet it will only
be a few more years of no sales tax for online purchasing. - GWE

Starting (I think in 2002) my current home state of Taxachusetts added a
line to the personal income tax return form for reporting those untaxed
out of state purchases, with instructions on how to compute the tax and
pay it with your income taxes. It would be fun to learn how many folks
complied.

Yep, NY state now *imputes* a tax for otherwise untaxable
sales (mail order, internet) and automatically adds that to
one's tax burden. For me this year it was about fifty bucks.
Non-negotiable.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Yep, and you're right it got MIGHTY HOT. Dumb thing to do in
retrospect, but I never imagined there wouldn't be some kind of
thermal shutdown on a self-running tool like this. Even my $19.95
hair dryer has a protective circuit.

Never again...

Neil

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 05:37:49 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

You left it running, and went to lunch? You were lucky you didn't lose the
building.

Steve

SteveB wrote:
"ATP" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"robobass" wrote in message
om...
Are you sure you want this piece of crap? Why not look for a used
real one? (i.e. an old one with some cast iron in it). I once got a
14" Grizzly used with a bunch of other stuff and it was a total
thorn in my side. Eventually I tore it down and totally rebuilt it
with a lot of redesign. It worked well after that, but I could have
better spent the time and energy. At the same time I was having
this headache my friend picked up a Rockwell for $150.

Robobass

Why would I knowingly want to buy a problem?

Steve

Are you sure you're in the right newsgroup? :-)



I must not be. I thought this one was rec.crafts.metalworking and
you seem to say it is rec.machinery.rebuilding.

My mistake. Sorry.

Steve

Nothing wrong with buying a new machine ready to go, for a small band saw,
you did OK. There is some satisfaction, however, in acquiring and improving
older quality tools, even if some time and ingenuity is involved. Most of us
wouldn't look at it as a problem, more like an opportunity.

"ATP" wrote


Nothing wrong with buying a new machine ready to go, for a small band saw,
you did OK. There is some satisfaction, however, in acquiring and
improving
older quality tools, even if some time and ingenuity is involved. Most of
us
wouldn't look at it as a problem, more like an opportunity.



Oh, I have bought my share of basket case rehab projects. But when I need
to hit the ground running, I don't want to work on something just to find
out IF it is going to work.

Were I to find a band saw that I could possibly repair, I might consider it.
Might being the operative word. Right now, time is important to me, and I
just don't like fooling with things as much as I did when I was younger.
Now I like things to work right away so that I can move on with things. It
is not cost effective to diddle fart around with some endless dead end
project.

Steve

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:44:48 -0400, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Gary Coffman wrote:

snipped

Yep, they operate at arm's length so the mailorder part won't be subject
to every state and local sales tax where they have a retail presence. The
state and local tax folks are squalling about this, but so far I've been able
to avoid the 6% sales tax by ordering from the catalog instead of driving
3 miles down the road and buying at HF's storefront.

I'm not being critical, and definitely not holier than thou Gary, but it
would suprise me if the state you live in doesn't have a law on the
books saying it's *your* responsibility to "fess up" and pay the
equivalent sales tax to your state yourself.

To the best of my knowledge, Georgia doesn't have such a law.
But I am aware that several other states do.

Ohio is the one that gets me, they insist on trying to collect sales
tax for all private sales among private parties. At least Georgia
doesn't try to tax private sales (they tried a few years ago specifically
for used cars, but there was such an uproar they promptly repealed
that tax law, no one was paying it anyway).

Kentucky is sneakier. They don't tax at the point of sale of a car,
new or used, they get you when you go to first register it in your
name. They charge sales tax on the Blue Book value of the car,
whether you paid that much or not. Argh!

But some Kentuckian's are even sneakier, they register the car
in another state first, then *transfer* title, already in their name,
to Kentucky, thus avoiding the sales tax (though they do get hit
with a $15 Sheriff's "inspection fee" when "importing" an out of
state vehicle). To do that, they have the dealer "deliver" the car
to another state (often the buyer will offer to do the delivery for
a nominal fee, a dollar, which they build into the price).

Or they just neglect to transfer the title into their name at all
(for beaters), and avoid the tax that way too.

The latter is flatly illegal, and can get you in trouble for other
reasons than trying to dodge the tax. The former skates thinly
along the letter of the tax law, and is technically legal if the
*other* state doesn't have a law against it. (Most don't, because
they want the registration fee.)

I have dual residency, so I've had to keep track of this sort
of thing. For example, I bought a truck in Kentucky (no sales
tax at point of sale), had it (self) delivered to Georgia where I
registered it (no sales tax because I didn't buy it here, and
no Georgia real property tax since it was a first registration),
then immediately transferred it back to Kentucky ($15 Sheriff's
inspection fee), again no sales tax, and no Georgia real
property tax in following years either. This is all within the
letter of the law for both states.

Note that I had to do all this in less than 30 days, or I'd have
lost insurance coverage, and that's illegal in both states.
Insurance for someone with dual residency can be a nightmare
anyway.

It can also get interesting dealing with cops when you have a
driver's license from one state, and insurance and registration
from another. I always carry the necessary papers (including
copies of the relevant statutes) so I can show I'm in compliance
with the laws of both states. Hassle? Sure, but it is worth it to
save several thousand dollars in tax.

Note, people with dual residency *used* to be able to get two
driver's licenses, one from each state. But that was made against
federal law a few years back. Having matching licenses, insurance,
and registrations made dealing with cops easier, and we can't
have that.

Frankly, I'd sort of like to see us do away with state issued driver's
licenses and state vehicle registrations. Just do it all at the federal
level. That'd make things a lot easier for people like me. It probably
wouldn't provide any wiggle room for legally dodging state and local
automobile related taxes. But OTOH it would make it lots harder for
states and localities to prove that you owed them any tax. :-)

Gary

Greetings and Salutations...

On 15 Jun 2004 12:26:57 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:
*snip*
Yep, NY state now *imputes* a tax for otherwise untaxable
sales (mail order, internet) and automatically adds that to
one's tax burden. For me this year it was about fifty bucks.
Non-negotiable.

Jim

Yea...cash to a politician is like crack to an addict.
they can never get enough, and, as time progresses they need
more and more to get that same buzz.
Regards
Dave Mundt