Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

1. Harbor Freight, ito of info, is even more useless than HD, if you can
imagine that.
In their various cement mixers, it is not clear from the cu ft declarations,
if the cu ft refer to the *mixable* cu ft or the drum cu ft.
Plus, the prices for the various "sizes" are all over the map--no
correlation between size and price. Supposedly $199 for a 3.5 cu ft unit,
altho it's not at all clear what that 3.5 cu ft refers to.

The Husky mixer at HD is clear: $299 for a 5.0 cu ft drum, which will mix
2.5 cu ft.
An 80# bag of ready mix yields about 0.6 cu ft of concrete, so the HD mixer
will take, at least on paper, about 4 bags--considerably more than the vague
references on the HF site.

2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields 4.5
cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs) plus 300
lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts, but this
is more or less correct. HD prices.
Stunning.
Which means buying ready mix is a no brainer.

But why would ready mix be so much cheaper??

3. HD can be surprisingly close to HF in prices, for things like moving
dollies, 100 ft 12-3 extension cords, other stuff.
HD of course nails you on myriads of other stuff (including nails), as does
even HF, when they attempt to sell Merkin items, like Channellock, etc.--no
bargains at all.

But HD is the supernova example of the ongoing fleecing of America. W/ Bob
Nardelli swearing that HD is a savior of society.
It is, in fact, the moth eggs on our social fabric.

Support your local hardware store, whenever possible.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

PV, just how much concrete do you need to mix? It is not that hard to
just mix concrete in a one wheeled dolly with a steel tub (forgot what
it is called), and then it is easy to dump into wherever you need to
pour it. Not for large quantities, obviously. One bag at a time. One
bag == one gallon of water == 3 minutes mixing time with a
shovel. Leather gloves help a lot.

i

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

1. Harbor Freight, ito of info, is even more useless than HD, if you can
imagine that.
In their various cement mixers, it is not clear from the cu ft
declarations,
if the cu ft refer to the *mixable* cu ft or the drum cu ft.
Plus, the prices for the various "sizes" are all over the map--no
correlation between size and price. Supposedly $199 for a 3.5 cu ft unit,
altho it's not at all clear what that 3.5 cu ft refers to.

The Husky mixer at HD is clear: $299 for a 5.0 cu ft drum, which will mix
2.5 cu ft.
An 80# bag of ready mix yields about 0.6 cu ft of concrete, so the HD
mixer
will take, at least on paper, about 4 bags--considerably more than the
vague
references on the HF site.

2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients
yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields
4.5
cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs) plus
300
lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts, but this
is more or less correct. HD prices.
Stunning.
Which means buying ready mix is a no brainer.

Just watch the 'minimums' for truck delivery. Also watch the 'time on site',
as some concrete trucks like to add the overtime to your bill. Where a truck
does NOT make sense is for post holes, small footings, basically the small
stuff.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

1. Harbor Freight, ito of info, is even more useless than HD, if you can
imagine that.
In their various cement mixers, it is not clear from the cu ft
declarations, if the cu ft refer to the *mixable* cu ft or the drum cu ft.
Plus, the prices for the various "sizes" are all over the map--no
correlation between size and price. Supposedly $199 for a 3.5 cu ft unit,
altho it's not at all clear what that 3.5 cu ft refers to.

The Husky mixer at HD is clear: $299 for a 5.0 cu ft drum, which will mix
2.5 cu ft.
An 80# bag of ready mix yields about 0.6 cu ft of concrete, so the HD
mixer will take, at least on paper, about 4 bags--considerably more than
the vague references on the HF site.

2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients
yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields
4.5 cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs)
plus 300 lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts,
but this is more or less correct. HD prices.
Stunning.
Which means buying ready mix is a no brainer.

But why would ready mix be so much cheaper??

3. HD can be surprisingly close to HF in prices, for things like moving
dollies, 100 ft 12-3 extension cords, other stuff.
HD of course nails you on myriads of other stuff (including nails), as
does even HF, when they attempt to sell Merkin items, like Channellock,
etc.--no bargains at all.

But HD is the supernova example of the ongoing fleecing of America. W/
Bob Nardelli swearing that HD is a savior of society.
It is, in fact, the moth eggs on our social fabric.

Support your local hardware store, whenever possible.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


My local concrete supplier will dump a load of sand or gravel into my small
trailer for when I'm doing a small job. Under $10 for 1000 lbs. That's
what makes mixing it myself cheaper.

Steve.

You apparently are buying your materials at the wrong places. If you are
buying from places such as Lowes and Home Depot for bagged sand and gravel
you are paying five to ten times the price of sand and gravel that you could
buy it for at a aggregates supply house. Last time I bought sand and gravel,
although it's been awhile, it was less than 10.00 a ton.
Dick

"reader" wrote in message
news:W155g.7582$t_2.1378@trnddc07...

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

1. Harbor Freight, ito of info, is even more useless than HD, if you can
imagine that.
In their various cement mixers, it is not clear from the cu ft
declarations,
if the cu ft refer to the *mixable* cu ft or the drum cu ft.
Plus, the prices for the various "sizes" are all over the map--no
correlation between size and price. Supposedly $199 for a 3.5 cu ft unit,
altho it's not at all clear what that 3.5 cu ft refers to.

The Husky mixer at HD is clear: $299 for a 5.0 cu ft drum, which will
mix
2.5 cu ft.
An 80# bag of ready mix yields about 0.6 cu ft of concrete, so the HD
mixer
will take, at least on paper, about 4 bags--considerably more than the
vague
references on the HF site.

2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients
yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields
4.5
cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs) plus
300
lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts, but
this
is more or less correct. HD prices.
Stunning.
Which means buying ready mix is a no brainer.

Just watch the 'minimums' for truck delivery. Also watch the 'time on
site',
as some concrete trucks like to add the overtime to your bill. Where a
truck
does NOT make sense is for post holes, small footings, basically the small
stuff.

"Ignoramus19383" wrote in message
...
PV, just how much concrete do you need to mix? It is not that hard to
just mix concrete in a one wheeled dolly with a steel tub (forgot what
it is called), and then it is easy to dump into wherever you need to
pour it. Not for large quantities, obviously. One bag at a time. One
bag == one gallon of water == 3 minutes mixing time with a
shovel. Leather gloves help a lot.

i


Wheelbarrow.

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:

-snip-
2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields 4.5
cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs) plus 300
lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts, but this
is more or less correct. HD prices.

As others have pointed out-- don't get bagged sand and gravel. If
you've got a little trailer that's the best deal-- but even if you
need it delivered,. . . I get 3 tons at a time- about $16 a ton,
and $65 for delivery. [that works out to $3.40/60 lbs- delivered!]

How much you need to mix and your specific job make all the difference
in the world-- but there is a guy near me that has a little truck that
does just a yard at a time. He can get it into just about anywhere.
It costs nearly the same as my buying all that Portland / sand
/gravel-- but it also spits out a yard of concrete in a short time.

For 2 yards I might still use him. Over that and I call the big
trucks. Check on exactly what they get for a 'short load'. I
called for 4 yards last summer and got a price. The day before
the pour I decided to do another job at the same time and added a yard
to my order. The pricing was set up so 5 yards was within pennies of
the 4 yard price.

For cement mixers-- watch the wantads. I have an ancient cast iron 3
bagger that I picked up [with a new motor] for $30 a few years ago.
It is heavy as all getout, has iron tires, and looks like crap. But
it sits out behind the garage, motor inside, greased up, and is ready
to go whenever I need it.

Jim

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:32:15 GMT, Ignoramus19383
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:40:08 -0500, gfulton wrote:

"Ignoramus19383" wrote in message
...
PV, just how much concrete do you need to mix? It is not that hard to
just mix concrete in a one wheeled dolly with a steel tub (forgot what
it is called), and then it is easy to dump into wherever you need to
pour it. Not for large quantities, obviously. One bag at a time. One
bag == one gallon of water == 3 minutes mixing time with a
shovel. Leather gloves help a lot.

i


Wheelbarrow.

Yea, wheelbarrow, that's it. Works great for mixing concrete, or
taking out chicken manure.

i

And you dont mix it in a wheel barrow with a shovel..use a hoe
instead. Works eversomuch better.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:32:15 GMT, Ignoramus19383
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:40:08 -0500, gfulton wrote:

"Ignoramus19383" wrote in message
...
PV, just how much concrete do you need to mix? It is not that hard to
just mix concrete in a one wheeled dolly with a steel tub (forgot what
it is called), and then it is easy to dump into wherever you need to
pour it. Not for large quantities, obviously. One bag at a time. One
bag == one gallon of water == 3 minutes mixing time with a
shovel. Leather gloves help a lot.

i


Wheelbarrow.

Yea, wheelbarrow, that's it. Works great for mixing concrete, or
taking out chicken manure.

i

And you dont mix it in a wheel barrow with a shovel..use a hoe
instead. Works eversomuch better.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist



yup, get your hoe and have her mix it.

Proct,

How big of floor are doing with this method?


"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:37:44 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

1. Harbor Freight, ito of info, is even more useless than HD, if you can
imagine that.

The Husky mixer at HD is clear: $299 for a 5.0 cu ft drum, which will mix
2.5 cu ft.


2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields 4.5
cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs) plus 300
lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts, but this
is more or less correct.

You pay wat to much for sand. Goto the local rock quarry or gravel
pit. Truckoad of sand ( 2100lbs cost me approx $6.50 ) Gravel is
just as cheap.

On Mon, 01 May 2006 01:21:56 GMT, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 11:37:44 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

1. Harbor Freight, ito of info, is even more useless than HD, if you can
imagine that.

The Husky mixer at HD is clear: $299 for a 5.0 cu ft drum, which will mix
2.5 cu ft.


2. Next, I was shocked to discover the following.
That it winds up being more than 2x as expensive to mix yer own
cement/gravel/sand as it is to just mix typical ready mix! I calc'd
$6.66/cu ft using ready mix, vs. about $14+ mixing the ingredients yerself.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow.....
You can approx'ly check the calcs: $10 for 94 lbs cement, which yields 4.5
cu ft concrete, and which requires 250-300# sand (at $4 for 60 lbs) plus 300
lbs of gravel (at $4/60 lbs). Some of the data posted conflicts, but this
is more or less correct.

You pay wat to much for sand. Goto the local rock quarry or gravel
pit. Truckoad of sand ( 2100lbs cost me approx $6.50 ) Gravel is
just as cheap.
On one project, one of my employees bet the crusher foreman he could
haul his pickup box level full of crushed rock out of the quarry and a
mile and a half home. First try, he lost most of the load when he did
a "wheely". Next try, he backed up the hill, drove home, shoveled the
gravel off and drove back to the quarry to collect his case of beer.
That old Fargo was one tough truck, he had boosted the tire pressure
enough to keep the rims off the road, and drove slow enough to keep
from bottoming out too often.
Most of the cost of gravel is in delivery and placing.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I gained
some inneresting insights.

Just how much floor area are you trying to pour? More than a few feet
(cubic) and you'd be better off just getting a truck in there. Otherwise
you'll have nothing but a zillion cold joints from you trying to mix it all
by hand. There is a time and place for mixing your own and a slab/floor
is probably not one of them unless it's quite small.
Cheers,
cc

Very illuminating replies.

Actually, Ig, a cu yd, at 0.6 cu ft per 80 lb bag, would be 45 bags of ready
mix--and 3600#--2 full loads in m'pickup.

But I had no idea sand/gravel was so cheap.
Figgers HD charges an *order of magnitude* more for stuff than would
legitimate suppliers--the smaller quantities notwithstanding.

My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of something or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to mix w/
a shovel (uh, Ig, uh, back problems??? g), but not enough to benefit from
a pickup truck full of loose sand/gravel or or to justify a cement truck.
I figger at 0.6 cu ft per bag ready mix, I'll need about 35 bags or so for
each pour.
Plus, ready mix will eliminate a few more variables that I might screw up.

So it seems I will go w/ ready mix, but I will almost surely *not* buy from
HD--on GP, and bec. it's such a g-d hassle, what w/ the insultingly long
lines, humping around those g-d trolleys, etc.
A normal supplier will either deliver (often for free), or load yer truck
for you--so much easier, even if you had to pay more, and most often you
don't have to.

Also, I have visions of effing HD ceo Bob Nardelli laughing at the human
cattle on long HD lines, via hidden camera...... which has gotta be better
than porn, for a social fabric-eating bidnissman/entreepreeneer.

The idea of getting a used mixer is neat, as well. I don't hold out too
much hope for this, but it would indeed tickle me not to give HD $300 for
their chinese import--even tho I have a HD/Husky compressor that I'm pretty
pleased with--esp. the floor price I got it for.

Later, for kicks I'd like to compare truck-delivered concrete w/ buying the
components from a good supplier, and vs. bagged ready mix.

Appreciate all the insights.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ignoramus19383" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:28:30 -0600, James "Cubby" Culbertson
wrote:

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
Awl--

In my shop-floor pouring travails (at least preparing for them), I
gained
some inneresting insights.

Just how much floor area are you trying to pour? More than a few feet
(cubic) and you'd be better off just getting a truck in there.
Otherwise
you'll have nothing but a zillion cold joints from you trying to mix it
all
by hand. There is a time and place for mixing your own and a
slab/floor
is probably not one of them unless it's quite small.

Let's do some math, one cubic yard pour would be 27 bags, at 3 minutes
per bag with a wheelbarrow, it would amount to 81 minutes per cubic
yard. I do not think that slow concrete would even begin to solidify
during this time frame.

As the amount of work rises beyond a cubic yard, issues of cold joints
would become more important.

At 6 inches thickness, a cubic yard would cover 54 square feet.

If he has a 20x20 area, that would be 400 square feet, and that means
about 8 cubic yards, or 216 bags of concrete, or 648 minutes of mixing
time using a wheelbarrow.

That's a big effort. If PV buys a HF concrete mixer, (aside from it
likely to just croak), he still needs to bring 216 bags of concrete,
which does not seem like fun if he did it by himself.

I think that a concrete truck would be the best choice for pouring a
floor.

i

On Mon, 1 May 2006 00:35:14 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Very illuminating replies.

Actually, Ig, a cu yd, at 0.6 cu ft per 80 lb bag, would be 45 bags of ready
mix--and 3600#--2 full loads in m'pickup.

But I had no idea sand/gravel was so cheap.
Figgers HD charges an *order of magnitude* more for stuff than would
legitimate suppliers--the smaller quantities notwithstanding.

My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of something or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to mix w/
a shovel (uh, Ig, uh, back problems??? g), but not enough to benefit from
a pickup truck full of loose sand/gravel or or to justify a cement truck.
I figger at 0.6 cu ft per bag ready mix, I'll need about 35 bags or so for
each pour.
Plus, ready mix will eliminate a few more variables that I might screw up.

So it seems I will go w/ ready mix, but I will almost surely *not* buy from
HD--on GP, and bec. it's such a g-d hassle, what w/ the insultingly long
lines, humping around those g-d trolleys, etc.
A normal supplier will either deliver (often for free), or load yer truck
for you--so much easier, even if you had to pay more, and most often you
don't have to.

Also, I have visions of effing HD ceo Bob Nardelli laughing at the human
cattle on long HD lines, via hidden camera...... which has gotta be better
than porn, for a social fabric-eating bidnissman/entreepreeneer.

The idea of getting a used mixer is neat, as well. I don't hold out too
much hope for this, but it would indeed tickle me not to give HD $300 for
their chinese import--even tho I have a HD/Husky compressor that I'm pretty
pleased with--esp. the floor price I got it for.

Later, for kicks I'd like to compare truck-delivered concrete w/ buying the
components from a good supplier, and vs. bagged ready mix.

Appreciate all the insights.

Many ready mix places have a concrete dump trailer you an rent quite
cheaply, which holds IRRC 3-4 yrds.

Assuming you have something to pull it with. Half ton full sized
pickup is most commonly used around here for this. You can back it in
yourself, or dump it into wheel barrows and schlep it in.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Might could work, but indeed a bit of schlep...
Proly I'm best off w/ bags and a mixer, at least for now.
But I must say I have a bit of a better perspective on the deal. Now I just
gotta learn the ins/outs of pouring floors.
Plus, w/ my own mixer, I'll have even more friends in the neighborhood than
when I got my pickup truck.
Well, at least I won't have as many flattened tires....
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 May 2006 00:35:14 -0400, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:

Very illuminating replies.

Actually, Ig, a cu yd, at 0.6 cu ft per 80 lb bag, would be 45 bags of
ready
mix--and 3600#--2 full loads in m'pickup.

But I had no idea sand/gravel was so cheap.
Figgers HD charges an *order of magnitude* more for stuff than would
legitimate suppliers--the smaller quantities notwithstanding.

My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of something
or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to
transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a
given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to mix
w/
a shovel (uh, Ig, uh, back problems??? g), but not enough to benefit
from
a pickup truck full of loose sand/gravel or or to justify a cement truck.
I figger at 0.6 cu ft per bag ready mix, I'll need about 35 bags or so for
each pour.
Plus, ready mix will eliminate a few more variables that I might screw up.

So it seems I will go w/ ready mix, but I will almost surely *not* buy
from
HD--on GP, and bec. it's such a g-d hassle, what w/ the insultingly long
lines, humping around those g-d trolleys, etc.
A normal supplier will either deliver (often for free), or load yer truck
for you--so much easier, even if you had to pay more, and most often you
don't have to.

Also, I have visions of effing HD ceo Bob Nardelli laughing at the human
cattle on long HD lines, via hidden camera...... which has gotta be better
than porn, for a social fabric-eating bidnissman/entreepreeneer.

The idea of getting a used mixer is neat, as well. I don't hold out too
much hope for this, but it would indeed tickle me not to give HD $300 for
their chinese import--even tho I have a HD/Husky compressor that I'm
pretty
pleased with--esp. the floor price I got it for.

Later, for kicks I'd like to compare truck-delivered concrete w/ buying
the
components from a good supplier, and vs. bagged ready mix.

Appreciate all the insights.

Many ready mix places have a concrete dump trailer you an rent quite
cheaply, which holds IRRC 3-4 yrds.

Assuming you have something to pull it with. Half ton full sized
pickup is most commonly used around here for this. You can back it in
yourself, or dump it into wheel barrows and schlep it in.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Might could work, but indeed a bit of schlep...
Proly I'm best off w/ bags and a mixer, at least for now.
But I must say I have a bit of a better perspective on the deal. Now I just
gotta learn the ins/outs of pouring floors.
Plus, w/ my own mixer, I'll have even more friends in the neighborhood than
when I got my pickup truck.
Well, at least I won't have as many flattened tires....
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

Something to think about if you mix your own with premix bags. I find
the standard mix in bags a bit weak. When using it, I buy a bag of
pure cement and add some (usually a coffee can full) per bag. That
results in -very- hard concrete and you probably don't need that much
but I am on the "more power" side of DIY.

Harry K

On 1 May 2006 07:26:54 -0700, Harry K wrote:

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Might could work, but indeed a bit of schlep...
Proly I'm best off w/ bags and a mixer, at least for now.
But I must say I have a bit of a better perspective on the deal. Now I just
gotta learn the ins/outs of pouring floors.
Plus, w/ my own mixer, I'll have even more friends in the neighborhood than
when I got my pickup truck.
Well, at least I won't have as many flattened tires....

Something to think about if you mix your own with premix bags. I find
the standard mix in bags a bit weak. When using it, I buy a bag of
pure cement and add some (usually a coffee can full) per bag. That
results in -very- hard concrete and you probably don't need that much
but I am on the "more power" side of DIY.

Would he need that for a poured floor?

Anyway, I would go to great lengths to avoid dealing with moving
hundreds of concrete bags around... The dust is very unpleasant also.

i

For jobs larger than mix-your-own, and smaller than having a delivery:
In my area (Massachusetts,USA) you can get a trailer-load. It looks
like a mini cement truck on a trailer. Has a gas engine and hydraulic
system to roll the drum and dump. They have two different trailers a
one yd^3 or 2 yd^3. You need a one-ton truck to pull the larger
trailer. Worked nicely for me pouring a footing.

good luck.
Andy

Ever hear of a sweat board......fast not overly hard, and you get to
find out who your friends are.

Get two sheets of plywood, and scab together so youy have a 8' x 8'
square......with the scab facing down. Add a friend on each side (4 or
more is great) and one on a wheel barrow, POstion sweat board near or
next to where you want the concrete poured, have person on wheel
barrow add dry ingredients, like 3 barrows of aggregate, 2 barrows of
sand one barrow of cement for a 3.2.1 ratio mix and let other go at it
with shovels or hoes, add water as needed and push shovel scrape off
mixed concrete to hwere its nbeeded or place in barrow and wheel in
place. You would be surprised just how fast a few fellas can mix up a
lot of concrete. It was a very cxommon way of mixing and placing
concrete back in the 30's or earlier and I even got to work sweat
boards as youngin in the late 50's.......
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1982.
Aquariums since 1956.
Some assholes Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on rec.ponds.
But, I am the one and only original Koi-Lo.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of something or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to mix w/

It's still worth asking a concrete co. if they think they can get
a truck in there. Worst that can happen is they say "no".

On Mon, 01 May 2006 15:06:16 GMT, Ignoramus11316
wrote:

On 1 May 2006 07:26:54 -0700, Harry K wrote:

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
Might could work, but indeed a bit of schlep...
Proly I'm best off w/ bags and a mixer, at least for now.
But I must say I have a bit of a better perspective on the deal. Now I just
gotta learn the ins/outs of pouring floors.
Plus, w/ my own mixer, I'll have even more friends in the neighborhood than
when I got my pickup truck.
Well, at least I won't have as many flattened tires....

Something to think about if you mix your own with premix bags. I find
the standard mix in bags a bit weak. When using it, I buy a bag of
pure cement and add some (usually a coffee can full) per bag. That
results in -very- hard concrete and you probably don't need that much
but I am on the "more power" side of DIY.

Would he need that for a poured floor?

Anyway, I would go to great lengths to avoid dealing with moving
hundreds of concrete bags around... The dust is very unpleasant also.

i
if he is gonna use premix..he had best find or make a "jitterbug"..as
premix, least in this area..tends to be big on rock and small on
concrete

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

how remote from a drop off point? i imagine by now you are getting
sick of hearing ideas from people who are suggesting an alternative to
small batch mixing, but here's a few mo

1. rent a skidsteer. have readymix concrete delivered and schlepp it
to your site with the bobcat, one bucket at a time. (i've done that
one)

2. check into a conveyor truck. i can get a truck with a 80' conveyor
for about ninety bucks, plus the cost of the concrete of course, which
has got to be the deal of the century. (something tells me youre not
that close).

3. would a pumper truck reach?

having learned concrete the hard way myself, i'll i can say is i hope
you have a good back and good luck.

Good back indeed. Ergo at least an electric mixer, fergodsakes!!

I should add that I'm also one of these broke-assed home-moaners, so I gotta
strike some balance between cost and convenience. Altho I'll weigh
anything/everything, so far the bags of readymix seem to be the lesser of
numerous evils.
The addition of a little portland seems like a good idea, altho Sakrete does
brag about some high-strength 5,000 "test" or sumpn....

Yeah, thought of throwing a "mixing party", and altho my neighbors and
fair-weather friends like me a whole lot better since I got my pickup truck,
they still don't like me *that* much.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"marson" wrote in message
ups.com...
how remote from a drop off point? i imagine by now you are getting
sick of hearing ideas from people who are suggesting an alternative to
small batch mixing, but here's a few mo

1. rent a skidsteer. have readymix concrete delivered and schlepp it
to your site with the bobcat, one bucket at a time. (i've done that
one)

2. check into a conveyor truck. i can get a truck with a 80' conveyor
for about ninety bucks, plus the cost of the concrete of course, which
has got to be the deal of the century. (something tells me youre not
that close).

3. would a pumper truck reach?

having learned concrete the hard way myself, i'll i can say is i hope
you have a good back and good luck.

On Mon, 01 May 2006 12:02:21 -0400, Goedjn wrote:


My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of something or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to mix w/

It's still worth asking a concrete co. if they think they can get
a truck in there. Worst that can happen is they say "no".


There are also many folks with small concrete pumps who do side jobs
on the weekends.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

I spose it could, iffin I moved my Bridgeport and Kalamazoo saw....
My basement is actually ground level where the garage door opens (I'm on a
hill), so the boom could go no higher than about 6-7' off the floor, and
about 50-60 feet in from the street.

But I'm thinking that a 21 cu ft pour (max), or 2/3 cu yd, is too small for
them.
You think a truck w/ a boom would be worth it? I'll check it out, but I
have an idea this would be disproportionate bucks, *if* they would even
come.
Plus, I'm not sure I'd be prepared enough for a truck, as I sorta figger
**** out as I go along....
I've got so many "issues"......
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ignoramus11316" wrote in message
...
So, what is exactly the reason why a concrete truck with a big boom
cannot reach that place that you need concreted.

i

For jobs larger than mix-your-own, and smaller than having a delivery:
In my area (Massachusetts,USA) you can get a trailer-load.

Here, its called "Yard at a Time" and the trailer holds up to 1.5 yards.
I added an extra sack of cement to their regular mix and towed it home (I
have an F350 1T)

It ended up costing the same per yard as the delivered stuff but I didnt
want a 10 ton concrete truck on my new concrete driveway.

I backed it into the garage and over to the back door where the 'chute' was
near where I needed it..step/slab just outside the door.

R

I agree w/ the HF hesitation.
Which is why I looked at the HD/Husky mixer--well, looked at the box, at any
rate. As I think I mentioned, at least for compressors, Husky is not a bad
budget brand. In fact, I think my 26 gal is quite good--so far.
At least the Husky mixer will take about four 80 lb bags, volume wise--mebbe
not weight-wise, but we'll see. Unless I find a used one locally.

I'm considering a HF electric snake, floor-standing (sitting?), 50 ft 1/2"
wire, $179. At least $350 and up elsewhere, and they are also crappy. A
really nice small Rigid is $650+.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ignoramus11316" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 1 May 2006 14:09:44 -0400, Proctologically Violated©®
wrote:
I spose it could, iffin I moved my Bridgeport and Kalamazoo saw....
My basement is actually ground level where the garage door opens (I'm on
a
hill), so the boom could go no higher than about 6-7' off the floor, and
about 50-60 feet in from the street.

But I'm thinking that a 21 cu ft pour (max), or 2/3 cu yd, is too small
for
them.
You think a truck w/ a boom would be worth it? I'll check it out, but I
have an idea this would be disproportionate bucks, *if* they would even
come.

Call around, they may "share a ride" with someone else in your vicinity.

You can also rent a concrete mixer at a rental place. My guess is that
it would set you back by 50 bucks. I just called our rental place,
they can rent one for $54. Just to give you an idea.

I think that it is better than to get some POS machine from HF. I have
a lot of HF tools, but would be uncomfortable with a concrete mixer,
not that I speak from experience.

Plus, I'm not sure I'd be prepared enough for a truck, as I sorta figger
**** out as I go along....
I've got so many "issues"......

I can sympathize with that!

i

So, what is exactly the reason why a concrete truck with a big boom
cannot reach that place that you need concreted.

i

They also have manual pumper trucks that use sections of hose schlepped
into place, clamped together, and run from a small pumper unit. This
pump is MUCH smaller than the usual one since you don't expect to have
to pump it 50' inthe air on the boom.

marson wrote:
how remote from a drop off point? i imagine by now you are getting
sick of hearing ideas from people who are suggesting an alternative to
small batch mixing, but here's a few mo

1. rent a skidsteer. have readymix concrete delivered and schlepp it
to your site with the bobcat, one bucket at a time. (i've done that
one)

2. check into a conveyor truck. i can get a truck with a 80' conveyor
for about ninety bucks, plus the cost of the concrete of course, which
has got to be the deal of the century. (something tells me youre not
that close).

3. would a pumper truck reach?

having learned concrete the hard way myself, i'll i can say is i hope
you have a good back and good luck.

Around $ 80.00 for a yard IIRC, theyre selling (pricing) it in cubic
meters now aaround here. Thats about 1.3 yards

And the $64,000 question is... How much did it cost you?

I have the HF 3.5 cuft unit (or it's equivalent)
It will mix 2 - 80lb bags at a time but the motor will be lugging. One 80 or
two 60s is more realistic.

I bought it because I needed to do a lot of small jobs and I figured that
even if it was a piece of junk, it only had to take the place of seven half
day rentals to pay for itself. It is still going strong 5 years later. I did
have to replace a belt though.

21 cuft is a lot of bag mix. You will need at least one stout laborer,
preferably two. 10-12 cuft is about as much as I like to do alone. That
takes about a half day of hard work including cleanup.

The drill is this:

turn the tank bolt upright and lay a sack across the mouth, split the sack
and let it dump itself into the tank.
Incline the tank a couple of notches and turn it on to dry mix the
ingredients. This fluffs them up and makes mixing a lot easier.
Keep track of how much water you add. it goes a lot faster if you know in
advance of each load
Listen to the mixer you can hear the load as it becomes mixed and plastic.
It takes 4-5 minutes.

Then dump the load into your and start to place it.

Have your laborer scrape any stuff stuck to the paddles loose and start on
the next batch.

Meanwhile, you spread the mix around building it up in layers and hoeing the
mix into homogeneity while the next load is mixing.

Keep this up til you have enough to strike off.

Paul K. Dickman

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...
I spose it could, iffin I moved my Bridgeport and Kalamazoo saw....
My basement is actually ground level where the garage door opens (I'm on a
hill), so the boom could go no higher than about 6-7' off the floor, and
about 50-60 feet in from the street.

But I'm thinking that a 21 cu ft pour (max), or 2/3 cu yd, is too small
for them.
You think a truck w/ a boom would be worth it? I'll check it out, but I
have an idea this would be disproportionate bucks, *if* they would even
come.
Plus, I'm not sure I'd be prepared enough for a truck, as I sorta figger
**** out as I go along....
I've got so many "issues"......
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ignoramus11316" wrote in message
...
So, what is exactly the reason why a concrete truck with a big boom
cannot reach that place that you need concreted.

i





--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 May 2006 12:02:21 -0400, Goedjn wrote:


My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of something
or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to
transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a
given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to mix
w/

It's still worth asking a concrete co. if they think they can get
a truck in there. Worst that can happen is they say "no".


There are also many folks with small concrete pumps who do side jobs
on the weekends.

Gunner

I've had a good laff reading all these ideas for placing concrete. Sweat
board? Lets get back into at least the 20th century. If your too tight or
poor to pay cartage on a short load, rent the dump trailer. Around here they
hold 1 yd. That isn't much. If you can't get close enough to dump it into
your forms get a 1wheeled dolly with the metal tray, aka wheelbarrow, and
wheel the mud to the forms. If there is any way to pour the whole floor at
once do it, with ready mix delivered. The mix will be far superior to the
crap in bags which is only suitable for setting fence posts or any thing you
mix yourself from sand, gravel and cement. The mix will be consistant and
well mixed. Home made mud will have pockets with only sand in it. I've
placed way more 'crete than I like to think about in 30 years of
construction. I've made most of the mistakes folks are telling you to make.
The idea is to place as much as you can finish in four hours. That's about
all the time you get. Place it fast and float it immediatly after is is
struck off. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Tom

On Mon, 01 May 2006 20:24:19 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 01 May 2006 08:27:01 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

Many ready mix places have a concrete dump trailer you an rent quite
cheaply, which holds IRRC 3-4 yrds.

Assuming you have something to pull it with. Half ton full sized
pickup is most commonly used around here for this. You can back it in
yourself, or dump it into wheel barrows and schlep it in.

Uh, not quite, Gunner. According to my Lee Valley Handyman in Your
Pocket book, a yard o'crete weighs 4050 lbs/yd3. I doubt your
rent-a-dump would hold 4 yds and be pulled by a 1/2T pickemup. g

I think those rental thingies hold 1 or 1.25 yards.


I checked the web..and you are absolutely correct.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

Why do you think the ready-mix in bags is so crappy?
Ito uniformity, would not an electric mixer address that?
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Tom Wait" wrote in message
news

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 01 May 2006 12:02:21 -0400, Goedjn wrote:


My own situation, tho, sort of condemns me to buying sacks--of
something
or
other.
The pouring location is remote from a drop-off point, miserable to
transport
inside, AND I'm only able pour an approx. 3 foot by 14 foot patch at a
given
time, approx. 6" deep, for about 21 cu ft--more than I would want to
mix
w/

It's still worth asking a concrete co. if they think they can get
a truck in there. Worst that can happen is they say "no".


There are also many folks with small concrete pumps who do side jobs
on the weekends.

Gunner

I've had a good laff reading all these ideas for placing concrete. Sweat
board? Lets get back into at least the 20th century. If your too tight or
poor to pay cartage on a short load, rent the dump trailer. Around here
they
hold 1 yd. That isn't much. If you can't get close enough to dump it into
your forms get a 1wheeled dolly with the metal tray, aka wheelbarrow, and
wheel the mud to the forms. If there is any way to pour the whole floor at
once do it, with ready mix delivered. The mix will be far superior to the
crap in bags which is only suitable for setting fence posts or any thing
you
mix yourself from sand, gravel and cement. The mix will be consistant and
well mixed. Home made mud will have pockets with only sand in it. I've
placed way more 'crete than I like to think about in 30 years of
construction. I've made most of the mistakes folks are telling you to
make.
The idea is to place as much as you can finish in four hours. That's about
all the time you get. Place it fast and float it immediatly after is is
struck off. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Tom

"Ignoramus19383" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:28:30 -0600, James "Cubby" Culbertson
wrote:

Let's do some math, one cubic yard pour would be 27 bags, at 3 minutes
per bag with a wheelbarrow, it would amount to 81 minutes per cubic
yard. I do not think that slow concrete would even begin to solidify
during this time frame.


Of course climate conditions will determine a lot about how fast stuff sets
up but I poured one full yard using a "Cart Away" type setup. Had to wheel
barrow it over to the hole. Temp was in the 50's. Dryer than hell. The
first bit of concrete was already setting by the time I was half way through
(about 30 mins). Where I picked up the concrete was only about 10 mins
from the pour location and I watched them mix it. I would not have wanted
to try to mix in more per se as it would most definitely have ended up in a
cold joint. I just cannot imagine trying to mix from premixed bags and
pouring more than about 4 batches. Granted, I was working by myself so with
help, you could do more, a lot more probably. One or two mixing and
delivering while the other is levelling and finishing.
Cheers,
cc

On Tue, 2 May 2006 14:13:03 -0600, James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:

"Ignoramus19383" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:28:30 -0600, James "Cubby" Culbertson
wrote:

Let's do some math, one cubic yard pour would be 27 bags, at 3 minutes
per bag with a wheelbarrow, it would amount to 81 minutes per cubic
yard. I do not think that slow concrete would even begin to solidify
during this time frame.


Of course climate conditions will determine a lot about how fast stuff sets
up but I poured one full yard using a "Cart Away" type setup. Had to wheel
barrow it over to the hole. Temp was in the 50's. Dryer than hell. The
first bit of concrete was already setting by the time I was half way through
(about 30 mins). Where I picked up the concrete was only about 10 mins
from the pour location and I watched them mix it. I would not have wanted
to try to mix in more per se as it would most definitely have ended up in a
cold joint. I just cannot imagine trying to mix from premixed bags and
pouring more than about 4 batches. Granted, I was working by myself so with
help, you could do more, a lot more probably. One or two mixing and
delivering while the other is levelling and finishing.



I recently mixed three bags of ready mix, setting a mailbox post

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Mailbox/


and it stayed wet and slushy for hours.

i

"Ignoramus5749" wrote in message
...

I recently mixed three bags of ready mix, setting a mailbox post

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Mailbox/


and it stayed wet and slushy for hours.

i


Where do you live? What sort of soil have you got? I'm in sand that
drains very well and the humidity is nil. I'm sure your location's
conditions make a huge factor in how long concrete will stay "slushy".

James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
... I'm in sand that
drains very well and the humidity is nil. I'm sure your location's
conditions make a huge factor in how long concrete will stay "slushy".

Environmental conditions have very little effect on concrete's curing.
It cures by chemical reaction, not by evaporation. The mix affects cure
speed: how rich, how wet. Bob

very little effect? you ever poured a slab onto dry sand and compared
to pouring one onto a plastic vapor barrier? a world of difference
because the bleed water sinks right into the sand versus having to
evaporate off the top when you are on a non permeable surface.

marson wrote:
very little effect? you ever poured a slab onto dry sand and compared
to pouring one onto a plastic vapor barrier? a world of difference
because the bleed water sinks right into the sand versus having to
evaporate off the top when you are on a non permeable surface.

Fast drying (curing) is bad for cement under any conditions. That is
why you should keep the surface moist for at least a couple of days.

Harry K