KANSAS PASSES "SHALL-ISSUE" RIGHT-TO-CARRY!

On Thursday, Governor Sebelius' (D) veto of NRA-backed Right-to-Carry
legislation, Senate Bill 418, "The Personal and Family Protection
Act," was overridden!

"After 12 years, it took a collective, bi-partisan effort to win this
fight," NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox declared. Kansas now
joins 38 other states that respect the Right-to-Carry and allow their
citizens to carry a firearm for personal protection.

The Kansas State Senate voted 30 to 10 to override Governor Sebelius'
veto of the Right-to-Carry legislation. Less than a day later, the
Kansas House of Representatives voted 91 to 33 to sustain the
override.

Cox continued, "We want to recognize the steadfast support of several
state leaders. Without their hard work, Kansans would still be
deprived of this valuable law. Senator Phil Journey (R-26),
Representative Candy Ruff (D-40), and Representative Gary Hayzlett
(R-122), worked tirelessly on this measure and we thank them."

"As always, we appreciate the commitment and participation of our
members in Kansas for helping pass this legislation and helping
override the Governor's veto of this law that will serve to protect
law-abiding Kansans and their families," concluded Cox.




"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Wow! I suddenly have a new fantasy: This trend spreads to California
in my time!
Ha...ha,ha...ha,ha,ha,ha...ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,choke ,choke,cough, hack!
Sometimes I crack myself up. Seriously folks, in this state, the fight
must go on if just to keep the status quo.

On 25 Mar 2006 02:31:24 -0800, "trg-s338"
wrote:

Wow! I suddenly have a new fantasy: This trend spreads to California
in my time!
Ha...ha,ha...ha,ha,ha,ha...ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,chok e,choke,cough, hack!
Sometimes I crack myself up. Seriously folks, in this state, the fight
must go on if just to keep the status quo.

In California..many counties are effectively Shall issue.

Kern for one

Gunner, ccw, 25 yrs, Kern Co.



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:06:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

KANSAS PASSES "SHALL-ISSUE" RIGHT-TO-CARRY!

On Thursday, Governor Sebelius' (D) veto of NRA-backed Right-to-Carry
legislation, Senate Bill 418, "The Personal and Family Protection
Act," was overridden!

"After 12 years, it took a collective, bi-partisan effort to win this
fight," NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox declared. Kansas now
joins 38 other states that respect the Right-to-Carry and allow their
citizens to carry a firearm for personal protection.

The Kansas State Senate voted 30 to 10 to override Governor Sebelius'
veto of the Right-to-Carry legislation. Less than a day later, the
Kansas House of Representatives voted 91 to 33 to sustain the
override.
============================
I live in Kansas and support this legislation -- It is
never-the-less a disgrace, not because it was passed but because
it is required.

The only thing that appears to be even minimally keeping the
rising tide of crime and anarchy under control is the
proliferation of state "must issue gun permits" and "no retreat"
laws.

I had hoped that the return of the habitual criminal act AKA
"three time loser" or "three strikes" law would eliminate the
need for such drastic remedies, however our judges and
politicians have systematically gutted these provisions.


Unka George
(George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies,
and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding,
is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), U.S. president.
Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

One problem California got into was filling the prisons and running out of room.
And so many police killers escape to safe harbor back home in Mexico.
Mexico is just now thinking about returning some - but still thinking after years.

We can no longer 'expect' law enforcement to come to our aid - thanks to the courts.
With so many illegal aliens in the country - they don't know the law and have grown
up under war lord law at home. The nasty gangs are central American kids and young.
Men and women. The latest riots of the illegals - chanting and threating because
they violated the law and don't want to atone to it. Free rides are in and socialism.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:06:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:


KANSAS PASSES "SHALL-ISSUE" RIGHT-TO-CARRY!

On Thursday, Governor Sebelius' (D) veto of NRA-backed Right-to-Carry
legislation, Senate Bill 418, "The Personal and Family Protection
Act," was overridden!

"After 12 years, it took a collective, bi-partisan effort to win this
fight," NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox declared. Kansas now
joins 38 other states that respect the Right-to-Carry and allow their
citizens to carry a firearm for personal protection.

The Kansas State Senate voted 30 to 10 to override Governor Sebelius'
veto of the Right-to-Carry legislation. Less than a day later, the
Kansas House of Representatives voted 91 to 33 to sustain the
override.

============================
I live in Kansas and support this legislation -- It is
never-the-less a disgrace, not because it was passed but because
it is required.

The only thing that appears to be even minimally keeping the
rising tide of crime and anarchy under control is the
proliferation of state "must issue gun permits" and "no retreat"
laws.

I had hoped that the return of the habitual criminal act AKA
"three time loser" or "three strikes" law would eliminate the
need for such drastic remedies, however our judges and
politicians have systematically gutted these provisions.


Unka George
(George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies,
and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding,
is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), U.S. president.
Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:54:16 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

One problem California got into was filling the prisons and running out of room.
And so many police killers escape to safe harbor back home in Mexico.
Mexico is just now thinking about returning some - but still thinking after years.

We can no longer 'expect' law enforcement to come to our aid - thanks to the courts.
With so many illegal aliens in the country - they don't know the law and have grown
up under war lord law at home. The nasty gangs are central American kids and young.
Men and women. The latest riots of the illegals - chanting and threating because
they violated the law and don't want to atone to it. Free rides are in and socialism.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


Welcome to the next revolution

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=134432

http://www.mexica-movement.org/granmarcha.htm

"One of the more negative parts of the march was when American flags
were passed out to make sure the marchers were looked on as part of
"America"."

Every Mexican flag flying above the hordes of illegals protesting the
upcoming laws about enforcing the prohibitios on illegal
immigration..simply adds more resolve to the citizens most concerned
with the issue. And the huge crowds of Illegals protesting brings a
visual cue to the numbers of them we have around us.

Most folks were not concerned because it was an abstract...now its in
their face..and they are becoming less and less complacent.

The bad part..is that we have made so many economic concessions and
accomidations to the illegals..that when we finally deport them..it
will likely cause another deep depression or a crash.

But if you consider it like a gangrenious limb..it has to go, or it
will kill you ...no matter than you will be something of a cripple
until they fit your prostetic to you.

"“I think it’s just inhumane. ... Everybody deserves the right to a
better life,” said Elger Aloy of Riverside, a 26-year-old premed
student who was pushing his 8-month-old son in a stroller at the Los
Angeles march."


I wonder who guarenteed his student loan?

Gunner, stocking up on ammo



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 20:54:16 -0600, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

One problem California got into was filling the prisons and running out of
room.
And so many police killers escape to safe harbor back home in Mexico.
Mexico is just now thinking about returning some - but still thinking after
years.

We can no longer 'expect' law enforcement to come to our aid - thanks to the
courts.
With so many illegal aliens in the country - they don't know the law and
have grown
up under war lord law at home. The nasty gangs are central American kids
and young.
Men and women. The latest riots of the illegals - chanting and threating
because
they violated the law and don't want to atone to it. Free rides are in and
socialism.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


Welcome to the next revolution

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=134432

http://www.mexica-movement.org/granmarcha.htm

"One of the more negative parts of the march was when American flags
were passed out to make sure the marchers were looked on as part of
"America"."

Every Mexican flag flying above the hordes of illegals protesting the
upcoming laws about enforcing the prohibitios on illegal
immigration..simply adds more resolve to the citizens most concerned
with the issue. And the huge crowds of Illegals protesting brings a
visual cue to the numbers of them we have around us.

Most folks were not concerned because it was an abstract...now its in
their face..and they are becoming less and less complacent.

The bad part..is that we have made so many economic concessions and
accomidations to the illegals..that when we finally deport them..it
will likely cause another deep depression or a crash.

But if you consider it like a gangrenious limb..it has to go, or it
will kill you ...no matter than you will be something of a cripple
until they fit your prostetic to you.

"?I think it,s just inhumane. ... Everybody deserves the right to a
better life,? said Elger Aloy of Riverside, a 26-year-old premed
student who was pushing his 8-month-old son in a stroller at the Los
Angeles march."


I wonder who guarenteed his student loan?

Gunner, stocking up on ammo

Y'know, Gunner, usually I read your political stuff with about a 50
pound salt block nearby, and a couple bags of rock-salt out in the
garage for backup. But on this topic, you and I pretty much agree.

Just stop and think about it for a second... "Illegal immigrants" -
Persons here in the US of A *IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW OF THE LAND* - want
driver's licenses, medical care, welfare benefits, and all the rest that
go with being a citizen??? Two words: **** THAT! You're here illegally
in the first place! That's what it means to be an "Illegal immigrant".
You're a criminal on the run. The only right you have as far as I'm
concerned is a photos-and-fingerprints sesssion, followed by immediate
deportation.

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more info

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:06:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

KANSAS PASSES "SHALL-ISSUE" RIGHT-TO-CARRY!

On Thursday, Governor Sebelius' (D) veto of NRA-backed Right-to-Carry
legislation, Senate Bill 418, "The Personal and Family Protection
Act," was overridden!

"After 12 years, it took a collective, bi-partisan effort to win this
fight," NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox declared. Kansas now
joins 38 other states that respect the Right-to-Carry and allow their
citizens to carry a firearm for personal protection.


it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over
columbine" (I think that that is what it was called)
particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences
of two communities which live either side of the canadian border
river.
you americans have no idea how much you lose in your quality of life
by this course of action. americans who have lived in either
australia, new zealand or canada are quite vocal in wanting our
quality of life and often migrate from america as a result. the
difference is that we dont carry guns.

I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of
routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the
carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat.
superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the
first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

Stealth (sad indeed) Pilot

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

An armed society is a polite society. We view strangers with respect,
not suspicion. If you had ever CCW legally you might have a clue.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:55:51 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:06:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

"After 12 years, it took a collective, bi-partisan effort to win this
fight," NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox declared. Kansas now
joins 38 other states that respect the Right-to-Carry and allow their
citizens to carry a firearm for personal protection.

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

Well, if they break into my house while I'm there, I'm going to tend to
be deeply suspicous of them, yes. Likewise if they initiate violence
against me in any other way.

can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over
columbine" (I think that that is what it was called)

You mean the movie that even the distributor disclaims as inaccurate?

particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences
of two communities which live either side of the canadian border
river.

Well, if you get your facts from michael moore, you really need to work
harder on evaluating the validity of your sources, rather than in trying
to convince others to do the same. Even the liberals I know,
acknowledge that he's lying.

you americans have no idea how much you lose in your quality of life
by this course of action.

What, by being allowed to defend myself from a criminal? Yeah, I'm
pretty sure I understand what I'm losing there...

americans who have lived in either
australia, new zealand or canada are quite vocal in wanting our
quality of life and often migrate from america as a result. the
difference is that we dont carry guns.

A friend of mine took a job in Australia, and moved back because of the
anti-gun environment.

I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of
routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the
carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat.

For someone who doesn't understand the situation, you're sure writing a
lot.

superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the
first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

So, you're going on the record here, to state that you think that only
the criminals should be armed, and that honest, law-abiding citizens
should be forbidden the means to effectively defend themselves?

Whose side are you on, exactly?

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:55:51 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.
snip
I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of
routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the
carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat.
superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the
first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

Stealth (sad indeed) Pilot
======================
You are correct, and the CCW/"no retreat" laws are not the best
solution but rather the "least bad" solution to an increasingly
dis functional judicial system and out of control social
structure.

The U.S. citizens have repeatedly used citizen initiatives to
pass habitual criminal statutes which require the long term
imprisonment of habitual / incorgable criminals, especially
those prone to crimes against persons. These are systematically
circumvented, generally on the grounds that it costs too much to
keep the criminals locked up.

The upsurge in 'home invasions," and "car jackings" leaves the
American citizens with two choices: (1) submit, lose your
property (and possibly you life), and file [another] police
report; or (2) buy a gun and shoot the perps. I will leave it
with you to decide which course of action is more cost effective
and permanent.

As Australia accumulates a permanent and growing "under class"
with no understanding of mainstream social/cultural/economic
values you will be increasingly faced with the same problems.


Unka George
(George McDuffee)

I sincerely believe . . . banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies,
and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding,
is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826), U.S. president.
Letter, 28 May 1816, to political philosopher and Senator John Taylor

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:55:51 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:06:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

KANSAS PASSES "SHALL-ISSUE" RIGHT-TO-CARRY!

On Thursday, Governor Sebelius' (D) veto of NRA-backed Right-to-Carry
legislation, Senate Bill 418, "The Personal and Family Protection
Act," was overridden!

"After 12 years, it took a collective, bi-partisan effort to win this
fight," NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox declared. Kansas now
joins 38 other states that respect the Right-to-Carry and allow their
citizens to carry a firearm for personal protection.


it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over
columbine" (I think that that is what it was called)
particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences
of two communities which live either side of the canadian border
river.
you americans have no idea how much you lose in your quality of life
by this course of action. americans who have lived in either
australia, new zealand or canada are quite vocal in wanting our
quality of life and often migrate from america as a result. the
difference is that we dont carry guns.

I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of
routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the
carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat.
superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the
first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

Stealth (sad indeed) Pilot


blink blink...the guns are the response, not the cause. Flys cause
garbage?

They are the response to a high crime rate and groups of people who
have been raised to think that normal folks are prey to be harvested
at their will..and get away with it.

Since the ever increasing liberalization of US gun laws..its
surprising how rapidly the crime rate is falling. In fact..we are now
down to 1964 levels..a time when armed citizens were very common.
One should note that the UK now has a much much higher violent crime
rate than the US does, which is interesting to note as the Uk laws
against self defense continue to become more draconian.

Is it paranoia when there really ARE bad people who dont care about
who or what you are..only that you are prey?

I wonder..do you carry this same mindset you exhibit..into other areas
such as driving? Or are you alert, aware and understanding that there
are those around you that will sooner or later do something that can
result in your death or injury? And drive accordingly?

Are you paranoid if you have a fire extinguisher or smoke detector in
your home? Are you paranoid if you wear seatbelts?

When one understands that in the US..firearms are used about 1.5
million..million times a year to stop or prevent a crime against ones
person, property or family..Id hardly think it was paranoia..or a bad
mindset that suggests one keep on their toes and have the tools needed
to deal with such a situation.

It should also be noted..there are some significant cultureal
differences. Until of late..the UK and Oz both were largly homogenious
cultures. White Anglo Saxon Prodestants for the most part. Common
cause, common culture.
In such cultures crime tends to be low. Its interesting to note now
that such is not the case..both the UK and Oz have skyrocketing crime
rates, while the US..which is th poster child for Diversity..has a
falling one. Whats one of the prime differences? We are armed..and
you are not. It should be noted..that when in the UK..it was common
for citizens to be regularly armed..crime rates were pretty low. Far
lower than now. Then the Peers disarmed the public in fear of being
overthrown by the Bolsheviks...and the crime rates have been
increasing steadily. Are you aware that rape, assult and burglary to
occupied dwellings are far higher per capita in the UK than in the US?
And the ratio continues to grow. Your criminals simply dont fear their
victims any longer. Why should they..when the victims only choice is
to submit or be killed?

Tell me..since guns cause paranoia in your opinon..why are the Swiss
so disgustingly boring?

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:59 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

An armed society is a polite society. We view strangers with respect,
not suspicion. If you had ever CCW legally you might have a clue.

Sharpen the Blade: 05-2004




States of Awareness, the Cooper Color Codes
By Tom Givens

www.rangesmaster.com


Most people stumble through life, blissfully unaware of the world
around them. They remain preoccupied with thoughts of work, or
personal problems, or how to get a date, or other trivialities, with
no thought to their immediate environment. By not paying attention to
their surroundings, they place themselves in needless jeopardy.

Go sit in the intake area in your neighborhood hospital emergency room
one evening, as an educational exercise. Observe the unfortunates who
come in for treatment, and you will get an excellent illustration of
this point. About twenty percent of the customers are actually
sick-discount them. The remaining eighty percent are there because
they were inattentive to their environment. These will be people who
walked off loading docks, or stepped off ladders twenty feet up, or
backed into running machinery, or stepped into the path of a vehicle,
OR allowed a thug to walk right up to them un-noticed and bean them
with a brick. You can be stupid, inattentive, and oblivious in your
work environment day in and day out and get away with it until one day
the odds catch up with you and you are injured. The same applies on
the street. You can be stupid, inattentive, and oblivious and get away
with it until your path happens to cross the path of a criminal. The
vast majority of criminals are opportunists, who only strike when
presented with a viable opportunity. Remove the opportunity and you
remove the risk to you!

By learning to observe your environment, constantly evaluate it, and
react appropriately to what you see, you can achieve a large degree of
control over your fate. This requires you to learn to shift up and
down a scale of readiness, just like shifting gears in a car, so that
you can match your level of awareness/readiness with the current
requirements of your situation. In a car, you shift gears based on
the grade encountered or the speed desired. On the street, you must
learn to "shift gears" mentally, to match the threat level
encountered. There is a sliding scale of readiness, going from a
state of being oblivious and unprepared to a condition of being ready
to instantly do lethal violence if forced. One cannot live stuck at
either end of this spectrum.

If you try to live at the bottom of the scale, you will fall victim to
an accident or to a criminal, eventually. It's just a matter of
"when", not "if". On the other hand, you can't go through your daily
routine with your hand hovering over your holstered pistol, ready to
shoot if anything moves! What you must learn to do is escalate and
de-escalate up and down this scale as the circumstances around you
dictate. This is an easily learned system, and one that will help you
be in the right frame of mind to deal with any conflict you encounter.

If you should find yourself faced with a life-threatening attack by a
criminal, as a typical normal person, you will be faced by three
enormous difficulties. They a

1. Recognizing the presence of the predator in time;
2. Realizing, internalizing, and accepting that THAT MAN, RIGHT THERE,
is about to kill you for reasons you do not understand; if you don't
stop him; and
3. Overcoming your reluctance to do lethal violence against a fellow
human being.


Let's look at each of these in turn. First, you have to see him and
realize that he is a threat. Thugs are flesh and bone, and are not
invisible. Contrary to public opinion, they do not beam down from the
mother ship, attack you, and beam back up. They typically walk right
up to you un-noticed because of the fog most people operate in daily.
Learn to lift that fog and see the warning signs earlier, so you can
be prepared.

Second, it is very difficult for normal, rational, socialized,
civilized people to grasp that they live cheek by jowl with people who
are NOT normal, rational, socialized, or civilized. There are people
out there who do not care about your hopes or plans for the future,
they do not care about your family, they do not care about the pain
and suffering they inflict-they just don't care. They may kill you for
the contents of your wallet, so they can buy one more day's supply of
drugs. They may rape you because they feel powerless, degraded, and
abused except while they are degrading and abusing someone else. They
may kill you simply to move up one rank in their street gang. Guess
what? It doesn't matter "Why?". A typical victim reaction is, "But
why would anyone want to hurt me?". Who cares why?

Third, it will be difficult for you to put your sights in the center
of a human being's chest and press the trigger, knowing that you are
turning a vertical, living, breathing person into a horizontal pile of
meat. Don't let anyone tell you that will be easy. As a society, we
don't want it to be easy, do we? This is why legally armed citizens
don't shoot people over arguments, or traffic accidents, and so forth.
In fact, shootings by armed citizens are almost always ruled
justifiable by the authorities, while almost a third of police
shootings are ruled questionable or improper. Private citizens are
reluctant to actually shoot, even when it is necessary. You must
overcome this obstacle if your life is on the line. You will have to
realize that there are times when lethal violence is not just
excusable, or justifiable, or acceptable, but actually required.

Fortunately, there is a system available to help you overcome all
three of these problems. By learning to use this system, practicing
it, and making it part of your daily routine, you can be assured of
seeing an attack in its developing stages, and become both mentally
and physically prepared to defend yourself. Jeff Cooper, who taught it
at ‘Gunsite’ and later gave an excellent videotaped presentation,
first publicized this system, called the Color Code. I had the great
good fortune of being taught this by Jeff early in my career, and I
can say without reservation that this system saved my life on several
occasions. Not what kind of gun I had, nor the brand of ammo, but this
mental system. I feel so strongly that this is one of the most
important weapons in your arsenal, that I feel it is my duty to share
it with you.

I mentioned earlier learning to move up and down a scale of readiness,
just like shifting gears. The scale consists of four mental states,
which Jeff gave color names. The colors simply let us conceptualize
and discuss the basic mental states. You must learn to go up and down
this scale as the situation and circumstances around you change, as
they invariably do as you go through your daily routine.


CONDITION WHITE- White is the lowest level on the escalator. In
Condition White one is unaware, not alert, oblivious. This state can
be characterized as "daydreaming" or "preoccupied". People in White
tend to walk around with their heads down, as if watching their own
feet. They do not notice the impending danger until it literally has
them by the throat.

You see examples of this frequently. When was the last time you saw
someone in traffic roll right up to a barricade or stalled vehicle,
then expect you to stop and let them into your lane? They're
operating their vehicle in Condition White. When a motorist runs over
a motorcyclist and kills him, what are the first words out of their
mouth? "I didn't see him." They're not lying. They were so
inattentive and complacent that they did not notice a 200-pound man on
a four hundred pound machine right in front of them. When this same
guy runs past a stop sign and broadsides your car, killing your child,
he will say, "I didn't see it.".

These same guys will be the victims of violent crime, because the
criminal targets the inattentive, the complacent, the lazy, the
distracted, the preoccupied. Why? Because the criminal wants to get to
him, get what he wants from him, and get away from him, without being
hurt or caught. Who would be the easiest person to do that to? Someone
in Condition White. I'm sure you've seen or read about the Miranda
card police officers carry. From it they read off a suspect's rights
before questioning him. Dedicated victims carry a similar card in
their pockets. If they are still alive when the police arrive, they
take this card out of their pockets and read from it, as follows:
" Geez, it all happened so fast.
He materialized right next to me.
I never saw him.".

So, when would it be acceptable to be in Condition White? When in your
own home, with the doors locked, the alarm system on, and your dog at
your feet. Then, you can turn off your mind, if you wish, because you
have sufficient layers of protection and warning to enable you to get
up, get your gear, and get your head running. If you leave your home,
you leave Condition White behind. The instant you leave your home, you
escalate one level, to Condition Yellow.

CONDITION YELLOW- This is a relaxed state of general alertness, with
no specific focal point. You are not looking for anything or anyone in
particular; you simply have your head up and your eyes open. You are
alert and aware of your surroundings. You are difficult to surprise,
therefore, you are difficult to harm. You do not expect to be attacked
today. You simply recognize the possibility.

Here's an excellent analogy. You are on a small naval patrol vessel in
the middle of the Mediterranean. You are not at war with anyone today,
so you do not expect to be attacked. You do, however, recognize the
possibility, so you have your radar on twenty-four hours a day, making
a continuous 360 degree sweep of the area, looking for potential
problems. Suddenly, there is a blip on your radar screen. You cannot
tell by looking at the small, greenish-yellow dot on the screen
whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, so you ask a fighter plane
to intercept the blip and check it out. If it is an Al Italia airliner
a hundred miles off course, the fighter pilot will wave at it. If it's
a Libyan MIG headed toward your boat, he will shoot it down. He won't
know whether to wave or shoot until he first assesses the blip as a
threat. This is exactly the same process you go through on the
ground. When you leave home you turn on your radar, and it continually
sweeps the area around you for potential hazards. When something
catches your attention, you assess it. If it's not a threat, dismiss
it. If it is a threat, start getting ready mentally to deal with it.

Anything or anyone in your immediate vicinity that is unusual, out of
place, or out of context, should be viewed as potentially dangerous,
until you have had a chance to assess it. Someone who looks out of
place, or someone engaged in activity that has no obvious legitimate
purpose, should be looked over carefully. When your mental radar picks
up on a blip, you immediately escalate one level on the scale, to
Condition Orange.

CONDITION ORANGE- This is a heightened state of alertness, with a
specific focal point. The entire difference between Yellow and Orange
is this specific target for your attention. Your focal point is the
person who is doing whatever drew your attention to him. It might be
the fact that he is wearing a field jacket in August. It might be that
he's standing by a column in the parking garage, instead of going into
the building, or getting in a car and leaving. It might be that you
have been in five stores at the mall, and saw this same guy in every
one of them. His actions have caused you to take note of him, so you
must assess him as a potential threat, just as the fighter pilot
assessed the blip earlier.

How do you assess someone as a threat? You have to take into account
the totality of the cues available to you. His clothing, appearance,
demeanor, actions, anything he says to you, are all cues. The single
most important cue is body language. About 80% of human communication
is through body language. Predators display subtle pre-aggression
indicators, which are obvious once you learn to look for them.

When you shift upward to Orange, you begin to focus your attention on
this individual that caught your eye, but do not drop your general
over-view. You don't want to be blind-sided by his associates. You
begin to watch him and assess his intentions, again looking at all of
the cues available to you. Nine times out of ten, after a few seconds
of observation, you will be able to see an innocuous reason for his
behavior and then dismiss him. Once you figure out he's not a threat,
dismiss him and de-escalate right back down to Yellow. Who is the
tenth one? He is the predator, who would have got you if you had been
inattentive. Now that you are aware of him, you are in far less
danger.

As you assess this individual, and you see things that convince you he
has evil intent, you start to play the "What if…." game in your mind,
to begin formulating a basic plan. This is how we get ahead of the
power curve. If he acts suddenly, we must have at least a rudimentary
plan for dealing with him already in place, so that we can react
swiftly enough. By saying to yourself, "That guy looks like he is
about to stick me up, what am I going to do about it?", you begin the
mental preparation vital to winning the conflict. With even a simple
plan already in place, your physical reaction is both assured and
immediate, if the bad guy presses his intentions. If, after assessing
him, you believe he is an actual threat, you then escalate to the
highest level, Condition Red.

CONDITION RED- In Red, you are ready to fight! You may, or may not,
actually be fighting, but you are MENTALLY PREPARED to fight. In many,
or perhaps even most, circumstances where you have gone fully to Red,
you will not actually physically do anything at all. The entire
process of escalating from Yellow, to Orange, to Red, then
de-escalating right back down the scale as the situation is resolved,
occurs without any actual physical activity on your part. The key is
that you were mentally prepared for a conflict, and thus could
physically act if the situation demanded.

When you believe a threat is real, and you have escalated to Red, you
are waiting on the Mental Trigger, which is a specific, pre-determined
action on his part that will result in an immediate, positive,
aggressive, defensive reaction from you. This is how you achieve the
speed necessary to win. By having a "pre-made decision" already set up
in your mind, you can move physically fast enough to deal with the
problem. Without that pre-made decision, the precious time in which
you could have acted was wasted on trying to decide what to do after
he starts his attack.

The Mental Trigger will differ depending upon the circumstances. It
could be, "If he swings that gun in my direction I will shoot him",
for instance. It could be, " I have told him to stop, if he takes one
more step toward me with that (knife/tire iron/screwdriver) in his
hand, I'll shoot him". Whatever trigger is selected, it is a button
that, once pushed, results in immediate action on your part.

Your main enemy is reaction time. If you are not aware of your
surroundings, and fail to see the suspicious character, he may
overwhelm you before you can marshal an effective defense. On the
other hand, if you are thinking to yourself, "I may have to hurt that
guy if he doesn't wise up"; you've probably already won that fight,
because you have a better understanding of what is transpiring than he
does! The best fight is over before the loser fully understands what
just happened. If you're caught in Condition White, you will need
five to six seconds to realize what is happening, get your wits
together, and respond. You simply don't have that much time.

There are a couple of mental tricks you can use in the early phases of
your training to assist you in this. Remember that one of the three
problems I mentioned earlier in this chapter will be actually "doing
it", actually employing lethal force when required. To help with this,
each morning when you put your gun on, remind yourself, "I may have to
use my gun today". This plants in your subconscious mind (which drives
90% of your life) that there is a reason we wear these guns-we may
actually need them to save our lives! When you pick up on that
potential threat and escalate to Condition Orange, tell yourself, "I
may have to shoot him today!". Believe me, if you have internalized
that a specific person is an actual threat to your life, but that you
have the means to stop him if need be, it gets easier to mentally deal
with the situation.

Let's work through a scenario to illustrate these principles. Let's
say you are working in a jewelry store today, a small storefront shop
in a strip mall in suburbia. All of the other employees went to lunch
and left you here alone. There are not even any customers in the store
at the moment, you're alone. What mental state are you in? (Yellow.
You are not ensconced in your home; you're out in the real world.) So
you keep your head up, and occasionally you scan out through the glass
storefront and check out the parking lot. Since there is no one else
in the store, any problem will have to come from outside. You want to
know about a problem while it's out there, not when it's standing
across the counter from you.

As you glance through the glass, you see two men in their early 20's
back up an old car to your store, get out in identical jogging suits,
enter your door, and split up. Immediately, you go to Orange. They
have done nothing illegal, and nothing aggressive, but they are out of
place, out of the ordinary, so you escalate your mental state, and
begin to think. "This looks like a hold-up in the making. I may have
to hurt these guys. What should I do know? If things go bad, I'll drop
behind this safe and I can shoot into that wall without endangering
anyone on the parking lot. I have a plan." At this point you watch
them, and continue to monitor their movements. If they leave, you
de-escalate to Yellow once they are gone.

If they stay, they will probably get together on the far side of the
store and briefly discuss what they have seen. They will then move
toward your position at the counter, and after trying to distract you
(Can I see that ring back there?) pull their guns and announce a
stick-up. If you have been using the system, you went from Yellow to
Orange when they came in, and went to Red as they approach your
counter. You are ready. Because criminals have to be adept at reading
body language (their lives depend upon this skill), they will see that
you are prepared and simply leave. About nine out of ten pairs will
leave at this point, without a confrontation. As they drive away,
de-escalate from Red, to Orange, to Yellow.

What about the tenth pair? They are drugged, drunk, or both, and
failed to recognize your level of readiness. They may go ahead
foolishly with their hold-up. According to FBI studies, probably 80%
of the ones you will actually have to fight will be under the
influence of drugs/alcohol/drugs and alcohol at the time. What's the
good news? They're drunk and/or drugged, which plays Hell with their
reflexes, reaction time, and motor coordination. They'll be relatively
easy to deal with, IF you are mentally prepared (Condition Red) and
have done your homework.

If they come in, and upon observing them you go to Orange, then as
they approach, to Red, but then they leave, and you de-escalate, you
will have gone all of the way up the scale without even reaching for
your gun, which is very common. The point is, you would have been
ready to reach for your gun if necessary. This is how you win fights,
by being mentally prepared to win.


"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

In article ,
F. George McDuffee wrote:

I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of
routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the
carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat.
superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the
first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

Stealth (sad indeed) Pilot
======================
You are correct, and the CCW/"no retreat" laws are not the best
solution but rather the "least bad" solution to an increasingly
dis functional judicial system and out of control social
structure.

A much better solution would be bounties for dead felons. I propose a
1-year tax exemption to anyone who puts a bullet into a felon caught in
the act - and a 5-year tax exemption if the felon dies. It would save
lots of money.

Any farmer can tell you if you are FOR corn you have to be AGAINST
weeds. Ever see a farmer carefully dig up weeds and move them to
another field while the corn grows? Felons are the weeds of society,
they should be exterminated like weeds or rats or other vermin.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:59 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

An armed society is a polite society. We view strangers with respect,
not suspicion. If you had ever CCW legally you might have a clue.

I beg to differ. you have obviously never experienced a peaceful
civilised society ....one where guns are not necessary and the women
beautiful.
you need to experience one. you'll be amazed at how paranoid your life
has become.

the tragedy for americans is that as technologically gifted as you
have been no one looks up to your society any more.
the guns and the needless paranoia turns us off.

Stealth Pilot

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:07:14 GMT, Gunner
wrote:



can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over
columbine" (I think that that is what it was called)
particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences
of two communities which live either side of the canadian border
river.

that section of the tape is not overloaded with michael's twisted
viewpoint but the video and interviews do point out a truth.



Is it paranoia when there really ARE bad people who dont care about
who or what you are..only that you are prey?

I suppose the problem may lie in our experiences. I have visited
america but never been a mugging victim there.
I was quite amused by my brother's reaction to making a wrong turn in
LA. when he realised which street we were on he went absolutely white
in the face.


It should also be noted..there are some significant cultureal
differences. Until of late..the UK and Oz both were largly homogenious
cultures. White Anglo Saxon Prodestants for the most part. Common
cause, common culture.
In such cultures crime tends to be low. Its interesting to note now
that such is not the case..both the UK and Oz have skyrocketing crime
rates, while the US..which is th poster child for Diversity..has a

you have probably identified the nub of the issue there.
our society is changing but to claim a skyrocketing crime rate is
nonsense. it has actually been falling.
our multi cultural society has been very peaceful. only the islamic
nonsense of late has caused any reaction. ...we're working on
reeducating the buggers.

And the ratio continues to grow. Your criminals simply dont fear their
victims any longer. Why should they..when the victims only choice is
to submit or be killed?

there is another option that is used in australia. a very active
police force. almost overbearing in some aspects but it works.

Tell me..since guns cause paranoia in your opinon..why are the Swiss
so disgustingly boring?
the fumes from the oiled gun in the closet set off the cheese :-)
I'm sure its the cheese. :-) the bloody stuff has holes in it.
anything that tastes that bad has got to be tainted :-)

look forget the imposition of wills aspect to this. it is evident that
we live in quite different societies. I'm just sorry that you cant
actually experience the peace of mind that we have in our society.
it is actually the greatest of freedoms to strive for.
ask any of our local white south africans. they are migrating here in
droves to escape the violence of south africa. once they experience
the peace of mind we enjoy they never want to return to south africa.
I hope you get to enjoy it yourself one day.
peace of mind and freedom from fear is quite exquisite.

btw the refurbishing of my original little Taig 2 lathe is going
gangbusters. I decided that it would be easier to machine some of the
"tiny" bits on it so its getting a birthday. should be able to machine
a piston on the weekend.
Stealth Pilot

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:30:27 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:

I beg to differ. you have obviously never experienced a peaceful
civilised society ....one where guns are not necessary and the women
beautiful.

Tell you what. Get our criminals to all dissapear, and _then_ talk to
me about my guns. Until then, your imaginary utopia is just that.
I'm not going to make myself defenseless so you can carry out your
little experiment.

you need to experience one. you'll be amazed at how paranoid your life
has become.

My life isn't paranoid at all. I've got the means to defend myself if
someone breaks into the house. Problem identified, risk mitigated. The
end. It's not stress-inducing, it's stress-eliminating.

the tragedy for americans is that as technologically gifted as you
have been no one looks up to your society any more.
the guns and the needless paranoia turns us off.


Great. Stay in .au than.

Stealth Pilot

Speaking of paranoia, why the pseudonym? Ashamed of your views, or are
you afraid of something?

Dave Hinz

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:00:35 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:07:14 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Is it paranoia when there really ARE bad people who dont care about
who or what you are..only that you are prey?

I suppose the problem may lie in our experiences. I have visited
america but never been a mugging victim there.

Guess what? Most of us haven't either. Concealed Carry laws make
criminals find less personal ways to be criminals. They're not stupid,
they're dishonest. They know that it's not safe to try to mug someone
who might be armed, you see.

I was quite amused by my brother's reaction to making a wrong turn in
LA. when he realised which street we were on he went absolutely white
in the face.

And what does that have to do with anything? Presumably your brother
was unarmed and anyone intent on problems would know that.

And the ratio continues to grow. Your criminals simply dont fear their
victims any longer. Why should they..when the victims only choice is
to submit or be killed?

there is another option that is used in australia. a very active
police force. almost overbearing in some aspects but it works.

Thing is, in the US, caselaw has shown time after time that they don't
have a duty to protect individuals. Period.

look forget the imposition of wills aspect to this. it is evident that
we live in quite different societies. I'm just sorry that you cant
actually experience the peace of mind that we have in our society.

The condescending attitude of yours is really detracting from your
message. Just so you know. It's not that we don't understand you, it's
that you don't understand the situation. Talking to us like we're
children, because we understand reality, isn't effective.

I hope you get to enjoy it yourself one day.
peace of mind and freedom from fear is quite exquisite.

Yes, it is. I am free from fear because I am in control of the
situation. Dialing 911 and hoping for the best isn't a viable plan.

On 30 Mar 2006 15:38:10 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:



Stealth Pilot

Speaking of paranoia, why the pseudonym? Ashamed of your views, or are
you afraid of something?

Dave Hinz

huh? I thought you were the one with the pseudonym.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:47:21 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 15:38:10 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:



Stealth Pilot

Speaking of paranoia, why the pseudonym? Ashamed of your views, or are
you afraid of something?

huh? I thought you were the one with the pseudonym.

If you consider "Dave" to be a pseudonym for "David", then sure. How
about answering the other questions, Sparky?

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:30:27 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 13:13:59 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote:

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

An armed society is a polite society. We view strangers with respect,
not suspicion. If you had ever CCW legally you might have a clue.

I beg to differ. you have obviously never experienced a peaceful
civilised society ....one where guns are not necessary and the women
beautiful.
you need to experience one. you'll be amazed at how paranoid your life
has become.

the tragedy for americans is that as technologically gifted as you
have been no one looks up to your society any more.
the guns and the needless paranoia turns us off.

Stealth Pilot

Other than in fevered LSD dreams..which society might that be?

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:00:35 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:07:14 GMT, Gunner
wrote:



can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over
columbine" (I think that that is what it was called)
particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences
of two communities which live either side of the canadian border
river.

that section of the tape is not overloaded with michael's twisted
viewpoint but the video and interviews do point out a truth.


Which truth might that be?


Is it paranoia when there really ARE bad people who dont care about
who or what you are..only that you are prey?

I suppose the problem may lie in our experiences. I have visited
america but never been a mugging victim there.
I was quite amused by my brother's reaction to making a wrong turn in
LA. when he realised which street we were on he went absolutely white
in the face.

When an LA resident turns white in the face when they realize where
they are..Id NOT be amused if I were you. Id be **** scared if not
alert and well armed. Or do you find it amusing to discover yourself
in the midst of a mine field?


It should also be noted..there are some significant cultureal
differences. Until of late..the UK and Oz both were largly homogenious
cultures. White Anglo Saxon Prodestants for the most part. Common
cause, common culture.
In such cultures crime tends to be low. Its interesting to note now
that such is not the case..both the UK and Oz have skyrocketing crime
rates, while the US..which is th poster child for Diversity..has a

you have probably identified the nub of the issue there.
our society is changing but to claim a skyrocketing crime rate is
nonsense. it has actually been falling.
our multi cultural society has been very peaceful. only the islamic
nonsense of late has caused any reaction. ...we're working on
reeducating the buggers.

Chuckle..falling? Hardly.

And the ratio continues to grow. Your criminals simply dont fear their
victims any longer. Why should they..when the victims only choice is
to submit or be killed?

there is another option that is used in australia. a very active
police force. almost overbearing in some aspects but it works.

Really? Not according to the stats, actually.

Tell me..since guns cause paranoia in your opinon..why are the Swiss
so disgustingly boring?
the fumes from the oiled gun in the closet set off the cheese :-)
I'm sure its the cheese. :-) the bloody stuff has holes in it.
anything that tastes that bad has got to be tainted :-)

look forget the imposition of wills aspect to this. it is evident that
we live in quite different societies. I'm just sorry that you cant
actually experience the peace of mind that we have in our society.
it is actually the greatest of freedoms to strive for.
ask any of our local white south africans. they are migrating here in
droves to escape the violence of south africa. once they experience
the peace of mind we enjoy they never want to return to south africa.
I hope you get to enjoy it yourself one day.
peace of mind and freedom from fear is quite exquisite.

Ive spent time in Oz..it was a nice place, the women accomodating, the
weather nice where I was..and the soft drinks cold.. However..there
were places I was warned never to go to.

I found London a nice place too. Until I left a club up in Manchester
and two lads with sharp bits decided they wanted my wallet and my
life.

LA is a marvelous place. Unfortunately...LA...is a ****ing huge
place..with areas even the angels fear to tread. The residents of
which..do leave those Here Be Dragons on occasion..and go hunting for
prey. If you look at the non gang or gun related crime stats..you will
find that there is a hell of a lot more violent crimes committed
without firarms, than with, in LA and its environs. So its hardly
paranoia or "gun caused crime" that causes many of us to take an extra
step in our personal security.

You never did answer the question about driving and fire extingushers
or seat belts though..and snipped them from the post.

btw the refurbishing of my original little Taig 2 lathe is going
gangbusters. I decided that it would be easier to machine some of the
"tiny" bits on it so its getting a birthday. should be able to machine
a piston on the weekend.
Stealth Pilot

Cool

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:09 GMT, Gunner wrote:

I found London a nice place too. Until I left a club up in Manchester
and two lads with sharp bits decided they wanted my wallet and my
life.

Funny you should mention that. The only time I was in serious danger of
attack, was in Soho, London. We'd eaten at a chinese place not far from
Piccadilly Circus, and went a block too far into an area we shouldn't
have been in. Immediately, 2 of the 5 of us were aware that things were
very much not right. We had two groups converging on us by the time we
convinced the other three that we shouldn't be there.

Of course, they knew we'd be unarmed, being England and all.

I have never, in 30-some years, had an experience anything like that in
the US.

You never did answer the question about driving and fire extingushers
or seat belts though..and snipped them from the post.

Yeah, he does that.

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:55:51 +0800, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Mar 2006 04:06:05 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

it is truely a tragedy when neighbours and friends view people they
dont know with deep suspicion. there is a core aspect of humanity
which is destroyed in the process.

This American certainly views people I don't know with suspicion when
they are flagrently breaking our laws.

can I suggest that people watch the michael moor video "bowling over
columbine" (I think that that is what it was called)
particularly the section toward the end which compared the experiences
of two communities which live either side of the canadian border
river.
you americans have no idea how much you lose in your quality of life
by this course of action.

Which course of action might you refer to?

Americans who have lived in either
australia, new zealand or canada are quite vocal in wanting our
quality of life and often migrate from america as a result. the
difference is that we dont carry guns.

Most Americans don't carry guns either. Perhpas you have an
erronious impression because a very few who do (or legally could)
carry guns make so damned much noise about it. Most Americans don't
care for that any more than you do.

I'm a gun owner and user myself but we dont carry guns as a matter of
routine because of the subtle psychology that develops where the
carrier starts seeing everyone in terms of their potential threat.

That's ridiculous. Threats are threats, regardless of the awareness
level of those around them who may be at risk. The response of
most reasonable people to perceived threat is to distance themselves
from said threat ASAP. Most Americans live in and go places where
that is easily done -- so they don't need to carry weapons and they
don't.

superficially you'd call the attitude paranoia and many of us in the
first world worry that it will bring the demise of the USA eventually.

Now who is viewing his neighbor with prejudicial suspicion? You
might call it paranoia; I'd call awareness of one's environment
prudent. See situations as they are, which may occasionally not be
quite as one might hope them to be.

I think tolerating lawlessness and egregious greed is what will
bring about the demise of the USA if we don't get that turned around.

On 30 Mar 2006 16:07:27 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:47:21 +0800, Stealth Pilot wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 15:38:10 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:



Stealth Pilot

Speaking of paranoia, why the pseudonym? Ashamed of your views, or are
you afraid of something?

huh? I thought you were the one with the pseudonym.

If you consider "Dave" to be a pseudonym for "David", then sure. How
about answering the other questions, Sparky?

ok it is an accident of history.

I was trying to protect my daughter from predators when I originally
set up my internet account.
I was reading through one of our safety authority's interminably
stupid safety magazines (I'm an australian pilot) when I noticed an
article on transponders in aircraft. the article intoned pilots to
have one and fit one to protect commercial aviation.
the notion is crap.
a. the transponder costs $aus2,500 to buy and about every three years
needs an altitude calibration at about $aus300. it does absolutely
nothing for the owner.
b. the nearest I get to commercial aircraft is in a circuit when a
transponder is really going to be useful. at other times they are at
least 10,000 ft above me.
the article had the banner heading that without the transponder on and
in mode C you were a stealth pilot.

just as I read that I looked up and the installation process prompted
for a user name. I typed in "Certified CASA Stealth Pilot" because I
have no intentions of installing a transponder.
I later condensed it down to Stealth Pilot because in all fairness the
Civil Aviation Safety Authority hadnt certified me.

as it happens my wife and daughter never used the account. the string
is configured somewhere in free agent.

I have held office in one of our national aviation organisations and
the anonymity allowed me to make honest independent comment.

so there you have it.
Stealth Pilot

On 30 Mar 2006 19:21:06 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:37:09 GMT, Gunner wrote:

I found London a nice place too. Until I left a club up in Manchester
and two lads with sharp bits decided they wanted my wallet and my
life.

Funny you should mention that. The only time I was in serious danger of
attack, was in Soho, London. We'd eaten at a chinese place not far from
Piccadilly Circus, and went a block too far into an area we shouldn't
have been in. Immediately, 2 of the 5 of us were aware that things were
very much not right. We had two groups converging on us by the time we
convinced the other three that we shouldn't be there.

Of course, they knew we'd be unarmed, being England and all.

I have never, in 30-some years, had an experience anything like that in
the US.

Did you let any of the two groups live?

You never did answer the question about driving and fire extingushers
or seat belts though..and snipped them from the post.

Yeah, he does that.

Indeed.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:03:53 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 19:21:06 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Funny you should mention that. The only time I was in serious danger of
attack, was in Soho, London. We'd eaten at a chinese place not far from
Piccadilly Circus, and went a block too far into an area we shouldn't
have been in. Immediately, 2 of the 5 of us were aware that things were
very much not right. We had two groups converging on us by the time we
convinced the other three that we shouldn't be there.

Of course, they knew we'd be unarmed, being England and all.

Did you let any of the two groups live?

We were very outnumbered and without effective means to overcome the
imbalance in numbers. They didn't follow us once we got into the
better-lit area. I do _not_ like being defenseless and threatened, it's
not a good feeling.

Some people apparently confuse that feeeling with a utopian society.

On 31 Mar 2006 13:17:10 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:03:53 GMT, Gunner wrote:
On 30 Mar 2006 19:21:06 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

Funny you should mention that. The only time I was in serious danger of
attack, was in Soho, London. We'd eaten at a chinese place not far from
Piccadilly Circus, and went a block too far into an area we shouldn't
have been in. Immediately, 2 of the 5 of us were aware that things were
very much not right. We had two groups converging on us by the time we
convinced the other three that we shouldn't be there.

Of course, they knew we'd be unarmed, being England and all.

Did you let any of the two groups live?

We were very outnumbered and without effective means to overcome the
imbalance in numbers. They didn't follow us once we got into the
better-lit area. I do _not_ like being defenseless and threatened, it's
not a good feeling.

Some people apparently confuse that feeeling with a utopian society.


As I understand it from friends still in the UK..you simply needed to
go to virtually any pub, and purchase a Sten, and solve that problem
once and for all G

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams