On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:36:58 +0000 (UTC),
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
[....]
"unimportant"? As in all those factors that don't fit your political
agenda ??

No, "unimportant" as in don't make enough difference in the result to
matter. I know you do it all the time in the modeling of semiconductor
circuits. We wouldn't be able to design stuff if we couldn't ignore
things.


--

When I "ignore" things I DEMONSTRATE mathematically that those factors
are second or third order effects.

When it comes to weather modeling, does ANYONE know what factors are
"unimportant".

To me, the weather data suggests a REGULAR cycle that man has little
or no control over. Yet, when I bring that up, the leftist weenies go
ape-****.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

In article ,
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
[....]
I read a very interesting item about the US economy. It seems companies
are going belly-up like flies, and people are getting thrown out of work
by the thousands, but the economy as a whole is more stable and robust
than it's ever been.

Well right there we know the item is BS. The US government is running a
huge debt. Interest rates are at record lows. If the economy was
healthy, it would be rocketing ahead with that much stimulation.

Its like we have the gas floored on our car and people are noticing that
we going faster than someone on a 10 speed. It isn't any kind of proof
that this is a sports car.

I think that one thing is that with the instant
world-wide communication and EFTs and stuff, that the response loop
has been shortened, maybe intensified, at the one-company level

Or perhaps not, this new communication doesn't mean that the useful
information gets where its going any faster, it just means that it is
mixed with more ads for breast enlargement pills.
--
--
forging knowledge

In article ,
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:08:27 GMT, the renowned Richard the Dreaded
Libertarian wrote:

I read a very interesting item about the US economy. It seems companies
are going belly-up like flies snip

Don't you mean that they are dying like hotcakes?


We are on an run away train into uncharted waters.

--
--
forging knowledge

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:41:39 +0000 (UTC),
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
[....]
I'm a nut case over oil, change oil and filter every 3000 miles, and I
use distilled water in the radiator ;-)

Distilled water is actually bad for the radiator.

Eh? Why do you think that? Around here the tap water doubles as
mortar ;-)


So how long do your cars last with all this extra work you do?


I don't do "extra work". Being a good Republican I spread the wealth
by hiring it done ;-)

Average age on my cars when traded in... 12 years (all purchased new
since 1962).

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

In article eoyLf.496$fL3.486@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[....]
it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...

Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

--
--
forging knowledge

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
[....]
When I "ignore" things I DEMONSTRATE mathematically that those factors
are second or third order effects.

When it comes to weather modeling, does ANYONE know what factors are
"unimportant".

I'm sure anyone in the field could at least name one thing that doesn't
matter. I'm betting most would suggest that the Larkin car washing rate
doesn't matter. I also suspect that they would have a good argument for
why no-one is measuring the dirt thicknes on his Yugo.


To me, the weather data suggests a REGULAR cycle that man has little
or no control over. Yet, when I bring that up, the leftist weenies go
ape-****.

Or:

You call those that "go ape-****", "leftist weenies" and make the same
result.


--
--
forging knowledge

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:41:39 +0000 (UTC),
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
[....]
I'm a nut case over oil, change oil and filter every 3000 miles, and I
use distilled water in the radiator ;-)

Distilled water is actually bad for the radiator.

Eh? Why do you think that? Around here the tap water doubles as
mortar ;-)

I wouldn't use that either. In most places, tap water has some measure of
buffering action. It is very easy to shift the PH of distilled water by
adding disolved gasses.

Average age on my cars when traded in... 12 years (all purchased new
since 1962).

About the same as mine. BTW: I really do change the oil but way less
often than 3000 miles.

--
--
forging knowledge

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:03:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:41:39 +0000 (UTC),
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Thompson wrote:
[....]
I'm a nut case over oil, change oil and filter every 3000 miles, and I
use distilled water in the radiator ;-)

Distilled water is actually bad for the radiator.

Eh? Why do you think that? Around here the tap water doubles as
mortar ;-)

I wouldn't use that either. In most places, tap water has some measure of
buffering action. It is very easy to shift the PH of distilled water by
adding disolved gasses.

Average age on my cars when traded in... 12 years (all purchased new
since 1962).

About the same as mine. BTW: I really do change the oil but way less
often than 3000 miles.

--

Arizona is extraordinarily dusty*. Thus oil and oil filter, and air
filter changes are significantly life-extending.

* Most of Arizona "smog" is actually dust.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:15:26 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:

In article 7tILf.569$fL3.557@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[...]
Don't forget the Edmund Fitzgerald; it is thought that it sank due to
a methane ice blowoff.


Thought by who? As I understand it, the Edmund Fitzgerald went into
shallow water in an attempt to avoid the worse of a storm. The waves plus
the draft of the boat was enough that it could have struck the bottom.
The bottom around there is rocky and lumpy.

Struck bottom in 530 feet of water? There is a guess that it had struck a
shoal earlier, causing bottom damage but no proof.

There was also an issue of sloppy practice involved. Other ships (the
same companies I believe) were inspected just after the sinking. The
other ships did not have the hatches properly dogged down. When the
bottom of the ship got punched, it opened it and broke the structure of
the spine. Without the hatches held in place, the water came in very
fast. The hatches also add strength to the ship making it basically a
tube. With the bottom weakened and the hatches loose, the ship had all
the strength of a noodle. It went under the next big wave and never came
up.

The official report concluded that the spine didn't break until it hit
bottom (the fore and aft sections are too close together). The hatches
are quite suspect though. The reports are quite controversial though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

Its still a great song however.

Indeed.

--
Keith

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:43:19 -0500, Keith wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:15:26 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:

In article 7tILf.569$fL3.557@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[...]
Don't forget the Edmund Fitzgerald; it is thought that it sank due to
a methane ice blowoff.


Thought by who? As I understand it, the Edmund Fitzgerald went into
shallow water in an attempt to avoid the worse of a storm. The waves plus
the draft of the boat was enough that it could have struck the bottom.
The bottom around there is rocky and lumpy.

Struck bottom in 530 feet of water? There is a guess that it had struck a
shoal earlier, causing bottom damage but no proof.

There was also an issue of sloppy practice involved. Other ships (the
same companies I believe) were inspected just after the sinking. The
other ships did not have the hatches properly dogged down. When the
bottom of the ship got punched, it opened it and broke the structure of
the spine. Without the hatches held in place, the water came in very
fast. The hatches also add strength to the ship making it basically a
tube. With the bottom weakened and the hatches loose, the ship had all
the strength of a noodle. It went under the next big wave and never came
up.

The official report concluded that the spine didn't break until it hit
bottom (the fore and aft sections are too close together). The hatches
are quite suspect though. The reports are quite controversial though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

Its still a great song however.

Indeed.

I have a distant cousin on her.

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

Ken Smith wrote:
In article eoyLf.496$fL3.486@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :-)
...lew...

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:27:32 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:52:13 GMT, the renowned Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:
In article eoyLf.496$fL3.486@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :-)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:52:13 GMT, the renowned Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:
In article eoyLf.496$fL3.486@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :-)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:20:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

---
That's generally how automatic transmissions work, asshole.

Push on the gas pedal to go, let it go to coast, and push on the
brake pedal to stop.

Get your wife to clue you in on how to drive, if she'll dare to.

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:20:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:27:32 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:52:13 GMT, the renowned Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:
In article eoyLf.496$fL3.486@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :-)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

...Jim Thompson

It's amazing that the basic auto engine hasn't really changed in
almost 100 years: crank, cam, pistons, rings, poppet valves, spark
plug, pressure-fed plain bearings, geared transmission.

John

In article ,
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of
the region.

That is not true. There were reports in the local paper in the last
year or two listing the major emitters in the area, and the emissions
of Mt. St. Helens were about the same as the coal powered electrical
generator at Tono (Centralia).

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:43:20 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:20:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

---
That's generally how automatic transmissions work, asshole.

Push on the gas pedal to go, let it go to coast, and push on the
brake pedal to stop.

Get your wife to clue you in on how to drive, if she'll dare to.


Try going down a really long grade in neutral. The last thing you'll
smell will be brake linings. My kid fried the brakes and warped the
rotors on her new automatic Toyota at 3000 miles; she has friends in
Pacifica and I forgot to tell her about downshifting.

There are federal regulations that mandate a minimum decel rate for
automatic trannies.

John

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 16:50:31 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:20:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:27:32 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:52:13 GMT, the renowned Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:
In article eoyLf.496$fL3.486@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[....]

it we won't be worrying about petroleum combustion byproduct pollution,
but Helium pollution...


Fusion is getting closer. 40 years ago they said it was 30 years away and
now they tell us it is 25 years away.

That reminds me of the blurbs by Chrysler Corp. in the 60s gas turbin
cars were 10 years away in the 70s they were 10 years away, I'm not
sure wether they gave an estimate in the 80s or not but if they had
I'm sure it would have been 10 years away. :-)
...lew...

Chrysler made a small number of them (something like 50). Apparently
bad fuel economy was an issue (even back then when an Imperial got 10
or 12 miles to the US gallon).

As a kid, I had a model kit of this engineering wonder:
http://www.lhmopars.com/MOPAR_Ads/Turbine_page6-7.jpg

Come to think of it, it probably inspired the TV-series Batmobile.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

There was also a big deceleration issue... take foot off accelerator
pedal and no significant back torque.

...Jim Thompson

It's amazing that the basic auto engine hasn't really changed in
almost 100 years: crank, cam, pistons, rings, poppet valves, spark
plug, pressure-fed plain bearings, geared transmission.

John

Ol' Henry Ford the 1st was a pretty sharp ol' geezer ;-)

In my first years working with Ford (early '60's) I met a number of
Ford employees who had either worked for Henry the 1st or had a father
who did.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

In article , Jim Thompson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:07:39 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:49:28 -0700, Mark Fergerson
wrote:


We simply cannot wield energies on natural scales.

Mr. Larkin thinks that washing his car will cause an ice age.

I think he's being just the least bit sarcastic.


No, I think that, if climate is a chaotic system, the tiniest
disturbance will propagate to complete changes of state.

It's interesting that the "climate change" crowd (formerly known as
the "global warming" crowd) now warn us of a "tipping point" where
added CO2 will trip a positive feedback mechanism and cause either
intense warming, or an ice age, I'm not sure which.

John


The name "climate change" came about when they suddenly realized they
didn't know **** ;-)

I still see "global warming" more than "climate change" as terms that
are used, despite the prospect of one effect being temporary cooling of
some polar areas that are currently warmed by ocean currents.

There is this negative feedback mechanism that is supposed to result
from icecap melting, where less-dense water from icecap meltoff (compared
to seawater) slows ocean currents that warm the polar areas. This means
that some polar areas receiving warmth from ocean currents get colder
rather than warmer when icecaps are getting melted.

Another thing: Some concern that this mechanism is oscillatory. If
this mechanism is not oscillatory, the most it can do is slow down icecap
melting. If it is oscillatory, there is some chance it can halt or
reverse icecap melting unless/until greenhouse gas emissions warm the
planet to the state it was in at a time 2-4 hundred million or so years
ago when much of the carbon that is now or was recently tied up in
fossil fuels was in atnospheric CO2 before much of the fossil fuels were
formed.

- Don Klipstein )

In article 9kyLf.494$fL3.244@fed1read01, Mark Fergerson wrote:
Richard Henry wrote:

"Mark Fergerson" wrote in message
news:eIlLf.421$fL3.193@fed1read01...

Ken Smith wrote:

And you think that the amount of CO2 man has added will have no effect.

"Trivial" effect, no sarcasm intended.

What degree of CO2 increase would you consider to be non-trivial?

Something on the order of what natural sources regularly (and
irregularly) produce. The irregular events I consider more worrisome as
the overall environment has a better chance of coping with relatively
slower changes; we ramp up our CO2 production over decades, the
biosphere adjusts to utilize it. A volcano blows off ten times as much
in one hour and there's no immediate place for it to go. Homeostasis (in
this case meaning staying on the "natural" attractor that determines our
climate) is a lot easier to maintain when the individual elements of the
system have adequate time to react to changes by sequestering excesses
of any resource, and Earth's biosphere has gotten very good at that.

Actually I worry less about rapid volcanic CO2 releases than things
like deep-ocean methane ice blowoffs. A seaquake releases a few cubic
kilometers of that in say an hour upwind of a populated coast and the
population is non-trivially screwed. This is not alarmist fantasy, it's
actually happened in large, deep inland lakes, killing every
air-breather for kilometers around. That was estimated to be from on the
order of a few cubic _meters_ of methane ice.

No, that was from at least a goodly fraction of a cubic KM of deeper
lake water becoming supersaturated with CO2 from known sources thereof.
A few cubic meters of solid methane will not make deadly the atmosphere
over 10's-plus square km of land, and where on Earth's surface or in or
adjacent to any body of water does one find methane ice?

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Keith wrote:
(I snip to save space)
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:15:26 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:

In article 7tILf.569$fL3.557@fed1read01,
Mark Fergerson wrote:
[...]
Don't forget the Edmund Fitzgerald; it is thought that it sank due to
a methane ice blowoff.

Its still a great song however.

Indeed.

A classic rock song, but I consider lousy! A "Moldy Oldie"!

Boring as (#e!!)!

But keep in mind a weather pattern:

(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)
"when the winds of November...
blow early!"

Makes me think of a somewhat tyoical big upper-Midwest storm that I
consider fairly usual for approach to winter when QBO is westerly but El
Nino is lacking.

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
The SUN is getting warmer.

Fraction of watt p0er square meter out of 1370?

We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons of S02 into the air
each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

100's of tons is nothing, and I have yet to hear of SO2 as a major gas
to affect worldwide surface-level atmosphere temperature in either
direction...

The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree

http://www.realclimate.org/ indicates no single volcanic eruption in
recent history did so much, and mentions pklenty of studies...

by dumping more crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and
... of all time. Far worse than many thought at the time - but remember
it was a colder year and the stars were colored.....

I surely remember hearing about "Year without a summer" and it was a
cold year worldwide but apparently hitting North America and maybe some
parts of western Europe especially hard...
And I look at http://www.realclimate.org/, and my thoughts are now -
which volcanic eruption and what year? I went through that website before
and saw lots of cites, with many for the many various traces through their
composite graph!
Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" that by only a minority of accounts was
colder than the "Baseline" of 1950-1980 than we are now or expected to be
experiencing within a year?

The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put
black soot around the world.

More like put out black soot that caught some blame for one weak monsoon
in/near India and some significant bit of Middle East having its worst
winter of the past few decades.

The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner,
how about more.

UK dusty? Cite?

Martin

- Don Klipstein )

In article ,
Keith wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:15:26 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:
[....]
Thought by who? As I understand it, the Edmund Fitzgerald went into
shallow water in an attempt to avoid the worse of a storm. The waves plus
the draft of the boat was enough that it could have struck the bottom.
The bottom around there is rocky and lumpy.

Struck bottom in 530 feet of water? There is a guess that it had struck a
shoal earlier, causing bottom damage but no proof.

The "shoal strike" is what I was referring to. I'd heard that there was
evidence that the bottom had a hole in it.

[....]
The official report concluded that the spine didn't break until it hit
bottom (the fore and aft sections are too close together). The hatches
are quite suspect though. The reports are quite controversial though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

Its still a great song however.

Who you going to believe, some random person who wrote in wikipedia or
someone who has the song on CD?

--
--
forging knowledge

In article ,
Don Klipstein wrote:
[....]
(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)

The water is about 35F. If the wind is offshore, the bodies don't bloat
and float to the surface.


--
--
forging knowledge

In I, Don Klipstein, typoed:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" that by only a minority of accounts was
colder than the "Baseline" of 1950-1980 than we are now or expected to be
experiencing within a year?

I meant to say:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" following the "medieval warm
period" that by only a minority of accounts was much warmer than the
"Baseline" of 1950-1980, let alone what we are now or expected to
be experiencing within a year.

- Don Klipstein )

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:23:03 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In I, Don Klipstein, typoed:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" that by only a minority of accounts was
colder than the "Baseline" of 1950-1980 than we are now or expected to be
experiencing within a year?

I meant to say:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" following the "medieval warm
period" that by only a minority of accounts was much warmer than the
"Baseline" of 1950-1980, let alone what we are now or expected to
be experiencing within a year.

- Don Klipstein )

Which was caused by the internal combustion engine..the Little Ice
Age or the subsequent Medieval Warm?

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:23:03 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

In I, Don Klipstein, typoed:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" that by only a minority of accounts was
colder than the "Baseline" of 1950-1980 than we are now or expected to be
experiencing within a year?

I meant to say:

Looks like no recent volcanic eruption holds a candle to the
few-centuries-ago "Little Ice Age" following the "medieval warm
period" that by only a minority of accounts was much warmer than the
"Baseline" of 1950-1980, let alone what we are now or expected to
be experiencing within a year.

- Don Klipstein )


Hummm..on second thought..it must have been all the CFCs from spray
cans and refridgerators

Gunner



"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3

In article , Keith
Williams wrote:

There is no apostrophe in its (possesive of "it", not a contraction
of "it is"). ;-)

One of a few typos that night... I normally don't commit that one!
The day was windy and the temperature took a big drop and after 50 miles
on the bike it was time for some BEvERages!

- Don Klipstein )

Keith Williams wrote:
don says...
snip
But keep in mind a weather pattern:

(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)
"when the winds of November...
blow early!"

There is no apostrophe in its (possesive of "it", not a contraction
of "it is"). ;-)
snip

"It's" in the case above is a contraction of "it has".

I think that the actual lyrics a

[first verse]
"The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy."

[last verse]
"Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early!"

R,
Tom Q.

--
Remove bogusinfo to reply.

In art. , Tom Quackenbush wrote:
Keith Williams wrote:
don says...
snip
But keep in mind a weather pattern:

(Lake)"Superior it's been said"
"Never gives up it's dead" (body count?)
"when the winds of November...
blow early!"

There is no apostrophe in its (possesive of "it", not a contraction
of "it is"). ;-)
snip

"It's" in the case above is a contraction of "it has".

When I saw Keith's response, I had my hopes up that he was
misinterpreting that. But it was the second usage, in "Never gives up
it's dead" where I messed up and should have typed "its".

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
snip
"It's" in the case above is a contraction of "it has".

When I saw Keith's response, I had my hopes up that he was
misinterpreting that. But it was the second usage, in "Never gives up
it's dead" where I messed up and should have typed "its".

Oops.

Emily Litella

Oh, that's very different.... Never mind.

\Emily Litella

R,
Tom Q.
--
Remove bogusinfo to reply.

In article ,
Tom Quackenbush wrote:
[...]
[first verse]
"The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
^ big

--
--
forging knowledge

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn top-posted:

The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree by dumping more
crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and ... of all time. Far worse
than many thought at the time - but remember it was a colder year and the stars were
colored.....

The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put black soot
around the world.

The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner, how about more.

I had a very interesting experience the last time I emigrated from
Minnesota to California - when I was coming down from the high desert, I
crested the rise, and all I saw was blue sky! I was flabbergasted! Just
about 15 or 20 years ago, the whole sky over the LA basin was brown.

People bitch about harsh smog regs, but somebody's doing something right! :-)

Cheers!
Rich


Pooh Bear wrote:
phorbin wrote:


In article ,
says...


So, assuming no dispute and solid science, why is it that the term "Climate
Change" is becoming the preffered term these days??

Because it's easier to pretend that "climate change" has nothing to do
with industry, oil, fossil fuels etc.? Some PR maven probably cooked it
up as part of a disinformation campaign.


How about because it's a more accurate description ? It isn't as simple as plain
'warming'. If the UK loses the Gulf Stream we'll be damn sight colder !

Graham



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:15:22 -0800, jonah.singularity wrote:

The world we have known is history. A mere 1 degree Fahrenheit global
average warming is already raising sea levels, strengthening
hurricanes, disrupting ecosystems, threatening parks and protected
areas, causing droughts and heat waves, melting the Arctic and glaciers
everywhere and killing tens of thousands of people a year.

Yet there are several more degrees coming in our grandchildren's
lifetimes.

OK, the sky is falling and we're all going to die.

So, now what? Put everybody in shackles? Ban human activity of any kind?

The problem with the fanatics is that all of their "solutions" involve:
A: The assumption that they're not weinerheads
B: The use of coercion to advance their agenda.

**** that. The only thing that makes life worth living is Freedom. I think
that pretty much no matter what people do, Mother Earth will survive.

Thanks,
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:25:38 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:03:05 -0800, John Larkin
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:17:07 +0000 (UTC),
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article ,
John Larkin wrote:
On 24 Feb 2006 11:15:22 -0800, wrote:

The world we have known is history. A mere 1 degree Fahrenheit global
average warming is already raising sea levels,

by what, a couple of millimeters?
^^^^^^ Metric! I'm shocked.



Oh, we always use metric units for small stuff that doesn't matter.

John


Sno-o-o-o-o-ort !-)

...Jim Thompson

Well, ladies and germs, it's the end of civilization as we know it - I've
actually laughed at the same John Larkin joke as Jim Thompson snorted at.
;-P

Cheers!
Rich
--
Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:05 GMT, the renowned Richard the Dreaded
Libertarian wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn top-posted:

The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree by dumping more
crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and ... of all time. Far worse
than many thought at the time - but remember it was a colder year and the stars were
colored.....

The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put black soot
around the world.

The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner, how about more.

I had a very interesting experience the last time I emigrated from
Minnesota to California - when I was coming down from the high desert, I
crested the rise, and all I saw was blue sky! I was flabbergasted! Just
about 15 or 20 years ago, the whole sky over the LA basin was brown.

People bitch about harsh smog regs, but somebody's doing something right! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

The air in major (and not so major) Chinese cities is barely
breathable these days.

Clean up the CA automotive emissions and export half of the industry
and things are bound to start looking up, environmentally speaking.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:53:02 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:

In article ,
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:08:27 GMT, the renowned Richard the Dreaded
Libertarian wrote:

I read a very interesting item about the US economy. It seems companies
are going belly-up like flies snip

Don't you mean that they are dying like hotcakes?


We are on an run away train into uncharted waters.

--

Sliding down the razor blade of life!

--
Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:58:05 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:05 GMT, the renowned Richard the Dreaded
Libertarian wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn top-posted:

The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree by dumping more
crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and ... of all time. Far worse
than many thought at the time - but remember it was a colder year and the stars were
colored.....

The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put black soot
around the world.

The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner, how about more.

I had a very interesting experience the last time I emigrated from
Minnesota to California - when I was coming down from the high desert, I
crested the rise, and all I saw was blue sky! I was flabbergasted! Just
about 15 or 20 years ago, the whole sky over the LA basin was brown.

People bitch about harsh smog regs, but somebody's doing something right! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

The air in major (and not so major) Chinese cities is barely
breathable these days.

Clean up the CA automotive emissions and export half of the industry
and things are bound to start looking up, environmentally speaking.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

I presume you meant by CA = Canada ??

Because CA = California has the most stringent smog laws in the world.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:00:33 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:58:05 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:05 GMT, the renowned Richard the Dreaded
Libertarian wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn top-posted:

The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree by dumping more
crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and ... of all time. Far worse
than many thought at the time - but remember it was a colder year and the stars were
colored.....

The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put black soot
around the world.

The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner, how about more.

I had a very interesting experience the last time I emigrated from
Minnesota to California - when I was coming down from the high desert, I
crested the rise, and all I saw was blue sky! I was flabbergasted! Just
about 15 or 20 years ago, the whole sky over the LA basin was brown.

People bitch about harsh smog regs, but somebody's doing something right! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

The air in major (and not so major) Chinese cities is barely
breathable these days.

Clean up the CA automotive emissions and export half of the industry
and things are bound to start looking up, environmentally speaking.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

I presume you meant by CA = Canada ??

Because CA = California has the most stringent smog laws in the world.

...Jim Thompson

And, possibly interestingly, they don't seem to have a terribly adverse
effect on car sales. :-)

And it _is_ nice to see blue sky when you go outside. :-)

Then again, it's the rainy season in So.Cal, so the air gets pretty much
washed about this time of year. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:51:57 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:00:33 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:58:05 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:33:05 GMT, the renowned Richard the Dreaded
Libertarian wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:12:33 -0600, Martin H. Eastburn top-posted:

The SUN is getting warmer. We feel that. Mt. St. Helens dumps 100's of tons
of S02 into the air each year - far exceeding cars and power plants of the region.

The little one in the Philippines cooled the earth by 1 degree by dumping more
crap into the air than all trucks, cars, motorcycles and ... of all time. Far worse
than many thought at the time - but remember it was a colder year and the stars were
colored.....

The oilfields that burned in IRAQ and the triangle area of Kuwait put black soot
around the world.

The UK was a very dusty place to live in for many years. Now cleaner, how about more.

I had a very interesting experience the last time I emigrated from
Minnesota to California - when I was coming down from the high desert, I
crested the rise, and all I saw was blue sky! I was flabbergasted! Just
about 15 or 20 years ago, the whole sky over the LA basin was brown.

People bitch about harsh smog regs, but somebody's doing something right! :-)

Cheers!
Rich

The air in major (and not so major) Chinese cities is barely
breathable these days.

Clean up the CA automotive emissions and export half of the industry
and things are bound to start looking up, environmentally speaking.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

I presume you meant by CA = Canada ??

Because CA = California has the most stringent smog laws in the world.

...Jim Thompson

My point is that they *have* tightened auto emission standards in
Californie, so things are now noticably better than when I lived
there, air-wise. Do any other jurisdictions have the vapor suckers on
gas pumps?

And, possibly interestingly, they don't seem to have a terribly adverse
effect on car sales. :-)

Like there's an alternative, eh?

And it _is_ nice to see blue sky when you go outside. :-)

Then again, it's the rainy season in So.Cal, so the air gets pretty much
washed about this time of year. :-)

Cheers!
Rich



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com