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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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OT there is "significant global warming"
Even the enviro-retards are finally catching on.
See story: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...810.xml&coll=7 "John Scheldroup" wrote in message ... http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. John -- "Because of the developments of science, all countries on Earth will have to unite to survive and to make a common front against attack by people from other planets. The politics of the future will be cosmic, or interplanetary." - General Douglas Macarthur, October 8, 1955, New York Times "I can assure you the flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth." ~ Harry S Truman |
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John Scheldroup wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. So, the world leaders should all get together, and ..... talk about the weather and what they are going to do about it? The earth's weather has been cooling and warming in cycles since time began (here). The socialists would like us to believe this is a new calamity brought on by, basically, success and capitalism. Sure, we need to track changes and adjust as needed. Sure, gross polution needs to stop. The worst offenders won't be at that meeting, I assure you. But ultimately, whatever changes in the climate are going to occur, we will not be able to retard in the least. And when those changes create problems for people on the far side of the world that hate us, we will bail them out, as usual. |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21 -0500, the opaque "John Scheldroup"
spake: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. Dismantling congress, with all its hot air, would do more toward ending your "Global Warming" than anything else. The Earth will warm nearly one full degree Centigrade this CENTURY. Oh my! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE! The best news is that Greenpeace (and other Greenies) are now urging a return to the safer, less polluting, nuclear energy. That's truly great news. (Thanks for the link, David.) ------------------------------------------- Crapsman tools are their own punishment http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design ================================================== ==== |
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Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:11:08 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21 -0500, "John Scheldroup" wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. So if it ultimately is determined that there is "global warming" and is naturally occurring, will all the Greens commit sepuku right after paying me back for the costs we had to incure in changing from CFCs and such? What a total idiot. Someone point out to him that global warming is one thing and Ozone problems (CFCs) are quite another. Why don't idiot wingere EVER have clues? sheesh Why don't you and your crummy friends ever have the clue to knock off the ****tin' crossposting, that's what I want to know. Besides, if you read into it a bit you'd find that the effort to tie global warming to the ozone thing is taking place. Go away. John |
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Edw wrote:
"jimpgh2002" wrote in message ... On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:37:03 GMT, Captain Compassion wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:34:18 GMT, "Edw" wrote: "jimpgh2002" wrote in message ... On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21 -0500, "John Scheldroup" wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. John -- Well, John, let's say there is global warming. So what? It's too cold in the winter around here anyway...I could use a little global warming. On top of that, the growing season would lengthen. Embrace global warming, John. Has it occurred to you that the biosphere has evolved in a climate that has remained relatively stable for tens of thousands of years? There are crops and fauna that would not survive such a change. Areas that are now productive would shift elsewhere, without respect to national frontiers. Supplies of fresh, potable water would also shift, as rainfall patterns, permafrost and snowfall amounts shifted toward the new temperate zones. Do you know how many wars have been fought over access to water? Are you fimiliar with the shift in patterns of dangerous weather - tornadoes, tropical storms, flooding and drought? Or the increased incidence of tidal bores? The last 2,000,000 years has been colder then over 95% of all of earths history. Please refrain from confusing the doomsayer with facts. His head may explode. Leave it to the genius to conflate obfuscation with fact. Is this the same edw whom I criticized for trying to impress with big words? The last 2,000,000 years are irrelevant. Bull****. It's the last 150 that are of concern. That's like saying that a snapshot of a man will tell you everything about his medical history and what treatment he requires. Of course, given your astronomically high IQ, it'll strike you as a coincidence that the accelerated rate of climate shift in that century and a half corresponds with the increasing use of fossil fuels, increasing urbanization and the explosion in exotic synthetics, such as DDT, released into the environment. And, of course, you'll be able to show us, too, how the changes in climate over that 2,000,000 years suggest that those in the last 150 are just a natural hiccup. Do you think everybody is as "smart" as you are? Apparently some of us are "smart" enough to make our newsreaders work properly.. |
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Rex B wrote:
John Scheldroup wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. So, the world leaders should all get together, and ..... talk about the weather and what they are going to do about it? Isn't that the polite way to open up a conversation? Talk a bit about the weather, a bit about family, wife and kids and then a couple jokes... The earth's weather has been cooling and warming in cycles since time began (here). The socialists would like us to believe this is a new calamity brought on by, basically, success and capitalism. You'd think by now one would see hordes of unshaven, loosely clad,( in gray coarse natural fibers) and using only wood sandals and only on foot. And the malls would be empty and no SUV could be seen anywhere. No bycicles, unless made of wood... Sure, we need to track changes and adjust as needed. Sure, gross polution needs to stop. The worst offenders won't be at that meeting, I assure you. But ultimately, whatever changes in the climate are going to occur, we will not be able to retard in the least. And when those changes create problems for people on the far side of the world that hate us, we will bail them out, as usual. And when we do, someone will accuse us of doing it for profit... cheers T.Alan |
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what do the Greens get though if it turns out global warming is related to
fossil fuels and (natural or not) has been accelerated by human activity? b.w. So if it ultimately is determined that there is "global warming" and is naturally occurring, will all the Greens commit sepuku right after paying me back for the costs we had to incure in changing from CFCs and such? Gunner |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:24:03 -0400, JohnM wrote:
Apparently some of us are "smart" enough to make our newsreaders work properly.. There IS that ... -- Cliff |
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Let the record show that Gunner wrote back on
Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:54:42 GMT in misc.survivalism : On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:34:18 GMT, "Edw" wrote: Has it occurred to you that the biosphere has evolved in a climate that has remained relatively stable for tens of thousands of years? There are crops and fauna that would not survive such a change. Areas that are now productive would shift elsewhere, without respect to national frontiers. Supplies of fresh, potable water would also shift, as rainfall patterns, permafrost and snowfall amounts shifted toward the new temperate zones. Do you know how many wars have been fought over access to water? Are you fimiliar with the shift in patterns of dangerous weather - tornadoes, tropical storms, flooding and drought? Or the increased incidence of tidal bores? Has it occurred to you that at least 7 Ice Ages have occurred in the last several million years and entire species came and went during these events? Or are you blaming the evil Republicans for the Ice Ages? Gunner, you know the book, The Illuminatii Trilogy? It's all true. Buffoon. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner -- pyotr filipivich It often seems the only way to make the Left open to the Rights ideas..is with a shaped charge. |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 05:26:47 GMT, "William Wixon"
wrote: what do the Greens get though if it turns out global warming is related to fossil fuels and (natural or not) has been accelerated by human activity? b.w. Then they get to make the rules. Right? So if it ultimately is determined that there is "global warming" and is naturally occurring, will all the Greens commit sepuku right after paying me back for the costs we had to incure in changing from CFCs and such? Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
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Tom Gardner wrote:
I keep telling everybody that this whole "Industrial Revolution" thing was a bad idea. We humans need to go back to being an agrarian society with about one fifth the population...max. Now, how can we go about killing off four fifths of the human infestation. Or, if just electric motors were all of the high efficiency type, the worlds electrical energy needs and resulting pollution would be decreased by over 40% Nuclear energy is your answer to both questions  |
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No. The trend in high end food is toward domestically-produced foods - artisan cheeses, wine, beer and even tropical or semi-tropical fruits. Spelt and other out-of-the-mainstream grains are no longer imported from Germany and France, and the vast majority of Parmesan consumed in the US is produced here - including the cheese-maker just a few miles from where I live, who make world-class Parmesan, Asiago and Romano.
We cook French with ingredients grown or produced in Wisconsin. I suspect we have become a net importer of food due to increased import of produce from Mexico. Since Vincente Fox sees Mexico and the US as a single entity, that's not really importing, now is it  |
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It must be all those SUVs that we can thank for the creation of the
Great Lakes and the bolder fields in the midwest. Those aren't boulders. They are stone-age SUVs |
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Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:11:19 -0400, JohnM wrote: Besides, if you read into it a bit you'd find that the effort to tie global warming to the ozone thing is taking place. Ummm ..... in what way, exactly, are they the same thing? Cliff, work with me here. I didn't say they are the same thing, I said that the effort to tie them together is being made. I feel that this means that someone mentioning them both in the same sentence isn't something to be confused with confusing them. The "and such" on the end of the quote is what I'm referring to, he's presenting the CFC thing as equal hogwash to the global warming hogwash. I find that I'm still not convinced on either issue, although some googling I've been doing indicates that NASA is certainly convinced on the CFC thing; they present it not as a theory but as a demonstrated fact. Strange that they only consider R12 and R11 in that issue though, chlorine released to the atmosphere got no consideration whatsoever, although I did manage to find one page where they did admit that volcanoes *are* a goodly source of what bothers them. Where the two are being tied together is in "atmospheric waves", allegedly a product of global warming and, supposedly, a factor in the temperature of the stratosphere during the polar winters. You'll have to look it up for a better explanation.. Re; global warming.. I read some thoughts on the issue and the one that stuck with is was "If the climate is changing, we better hope it's warming and not cooling, 'cause warming is something we can do something about". I think that makes sense- do you? John |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:51:11 -0500, the opaque Rex B
spake: No. The trend in high end food is toward domestically-produced foods - artisan cheeses, wine, beer and even tropical or semi-tropical fruits. Spelt and other out-of-the-mainstream grains are no longer imported from Germany and France, and the vast majority of Parmesan consumed in the US is produced here - including the cheese-maker just a few miles from where I live, who make world-class Parmesan, Asiago and Romano. We cook French with ingredients grown or produced in Wisconsin. I suspect we have become a net importer of food due to increased import of produce from Mexico. Since Vincente Fox sees Mexico and the US as a single entity, that's not really importing, now is it Given the stats on population growth in the USA, Fox's idea may become a reality in the very near future. ------------------------------------------- Crapsman tools are their own punishment http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design ================================================== ==== |
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Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:13:12 -0500, "*" wrote: You might be wise to take some of your own advice about idiots...... It is entirely possible for the United States to produce less polution while burning MORE fuel than China due to the work that has gone into emmission controls. And the CO2 goes where? You might be wise to take some of your own advice about idiots...... Well, if you're going to count CO2 then China, having a quarter of the world's population, is, in that alone, emitting a mighty heap of CO2. And they work harder than anybody else too, the *******s, so that adds to the contribution, right? They're breathing up more than a quarter of the air, that's not fair, I say we do something about it. John |
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Cliff wrote:
On 16 Jun 2005 23:30:57 -0700, "BC" wrote: biosphere About half of the total biomass (or more) are bacteria. Think of it ..... enough bacteria under & about a tree in the soil to about outweigh the tree .... Wow, man, that's like.. cosmic. Hand me the bong. |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:06:41 +0100, Guido wrote:
jimpgh2002 wrote: You're just a fear monger. There are "experts" on both sides of the issue. Nobody knows for sure what would happen, especially not you. Yes they do. What will happen is that things will be different, though nobody will predict exactly what its going to be like down your street. In the UK there are definite signs of changes in the last 40 years: http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalwarm...785547,00.html birds that 50 years ago were rare migrants from the Mediterranean are now regular breaders in the UK and at least two of them are now resident. In Northern France last year I was watching flocks of birds that my 2001 guide book said were only found on the Mediterranean coast. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...masowls_2.html So, how do you explain the Northern birds we have that bird surveys say never migrate this far south? |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:08:22 +0000, TheAlligator wrote:
wrote: You act as if the earth is a living entity and if you cannot see that it is, I am sorry. This is a giant rock we live on, surrounded by a life-form. A living planet. The dirt, trees, water, air are all living. Without life you have no dirt (you have sand, dust), air: created by the living trees that eat the living dirt. Yes, the earth is a living entity. Please Gentlemen. Let us all now pause to worship our Mother Earth Goddess - show some respect, dang it! G Yes. Mother loves us: http://www.godchannel.com/mother.html -- Cheers! Rich for further information, please visit http://www.godchannel.com |
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"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news  And if you ever wonder why the only people who see the flying saucers are backwoods hicks, it's because the hicks are the only people living in the backwoods where the saucer people like to land. Heavens' snakes alive, haven't you ever seen "Star Trek?" They always land in the backwoods someplace and hide the shuttle, when they land on a primitive planet. ;-) With the kind of technology it takes to fly interstellar, mainly, FTL (since generation ships are just plain stupid in either case), if they wanted to attack, they'd squash us like a bug. Ha! A lot YOU know. Haven't you seen a Pontiac Aztec? Those are their advance scouts. Enlightened as they are, the first thing they send is their recycling containers. An "Aztec" is really an intergallactic dumpster. -- Ed Huntress |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:11:08 GMT, Gunner
wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21 -0500, "John Scheldroup" wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. So if it ultimately is determined that there is "global warming" and is naturally occurring, will all the Greens commit sepuku right after paying me back for the costs we had to incure in changing from CFCs and such? Gunner I think you are a little confused here Gunner. CFCs have to do with the ozone layer; not global warming. Regards. Ken. |
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:53:19 -0400, Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:11:08 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21 -0500, "John Scheldroup" wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. So if it ultimately is determined that there is "global warming" and is naturally occurring, will all the Greens commit sepuku right after paying me back for the costs we had to incure in changing from CFCs and such? What a total idiot. Someone point out to him that global warming is one thing and Ozone problems (CFCs) are quite another. Why don't idiot wingere EVER have clues? sheesh Cliff; I did point that out to him before reading this post. I pointed it out in a polite manner - got that in you? Manners would go a long way to get respect for your opinions and facts. Ken. |
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#25
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"Rich Grise" wrote in message news [crossposted as seen in header, but followups-to set to rec.crafts.metalworking,sci.electronics.design. If you want to followup, please insert your own newsgroup as followups-to. Thanks! -- Richard The Smart Crossposter] On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21-0500, John Scheldroup wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. "Because of the developments of science, all countries on Earth will have to unite to survive and to make a common front against attack by people from other planets. The politics of the future will be cosmic, or interplanetary." - General Douglas Macarthur, October 8, 1955, New York Times "I can assure you the flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth." ~ Harry S Truman We're not going to be attacked by aliens, because by the time any race figures out how to do interstallar travel, they'll have figured out how to not have wars. It's much more profitable to trade trinkets. :-) And if you ever wonder why the only people who see the flying saucers are backwoods hicks, it's because the hicks are the only people living in the backwoods where the saucer people like to land. Heavens' snakes alive, haven't you ever seen "Star Trek?" They always land in the backwoods someplace and hide the shuttle, when they land on a primitive planet. ;-) With the kind of technology it takes to fly interstellar, mainly, FTL (since generation ships are just plain stupid in either case), if they wanted to attack, they'd squash us like a bug. Rich right again, however if those reticules are ever waiting for us to be more a model of their kind, I think you and I would agree they'll be standing around for awhile. Along with mass murders in millions innocence, senseless wars, love, sad then we kill each other, no wonder. http://www.night-thunder.com/phobias.html Perhaps our diversity overshadows parts to their logic putting them at a disadvantage in way of us meeting one on one. With any kind of great technology such as controlling, shrink wrapping space-time in order to shorten two points we might even get from here to their in less time then what our human reason seems to comprehend at this moment. Lets keep in mind that technology alone is not the only great criteria that makes a civilization advanced, a life philosophy like knowing the ten commandments are not commands but a philosophy of life to live by, later on us humans might be the perfect models which other advanced civilizations will hope to make contact with, sometime soon we both hope G Cheers! John |
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Rich Grise wrote:
We're not going to be attacked by aliens, because by the time any race figures out how to do interstallar travel, they'll have figured out how to not have wars. It's much more profitable to trade trinkets. :-) http://tinyurl.com/bvkjj -- Regards, Bob Monsen If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger? Thomas Henry Huxley, 1877 |
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It's just a matter of understanding the
true scale of things and what we humans are capable of. Google-up the history of the "passenger pigeon" -- that's a very good cautionary tale about what happens when we go about things cluelessly and make wholly naive assumptions about our impact on nature. Being environmentally conscious is not being concerned with the entire planet -- just that extremely thin coating around it that we actually live in. Here's my last trick quiz for the machinists out the according this: http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournam...es/equip.shtml billiard balls are suppose to have a diameter of 2 1/4" +/- .005" If the earth was shrunk down to a diameter of 2 1/4," would it meet the tolerance standard for an official ball? The mean diameter of the Earth is 12,742.02 km, the highest point is 8,850 m (Everest), and the lowest is -10,911 m (Mariana Trench) Is that cosmic enough for you? -BC |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:03:28 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message news And if you ever wonder why the only people who see the flying saucers are backwoods hicks, it's because the hicks are the only people living in the backwoods where the saucer people like to land. Heavens' snakes alive, haven't you ever seen "Star Trek?" They always land in the backwoods someplace and hide the shuttle, when they land on a primitive planet. ;-) With the kind of technology it takes to fly interstellar, mainly, FTL (since generation ships are just plain stupid in either case), if they wanted to attack, they'd squash us like a bug. Ha! A lot YOU know. Haven't you seen a Pontiac Aztec? Those are their advance scouts. Enlightened as they are, the first thing they send is their recycling containers. An "Aztec" is really an intergallactic dumpster. I think you have this confused with the Honda Element. They *are* alien! -- Keith |
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"keith" wrote in message
news On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:03:28 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote: "Rich Grise" wrote in message news And if you ever wonder why the only people who see the flying saucers are backwoods hicks, it's because the hicks are the only people living in the backwoods where the saucer people like to land. Heavens' snakes alive, haven't you ever seen "Star Trek?" They always land in the backwoods someplace and hide the shuttle, when they land on a primitive planet. ;-) With the kind of technology it takes to fly interstellar, mainly, FTL (since generation ships are just plain stupid in either case), if they wanted to attack, they'd squash us like a bug. Ha! A lot YOU know. Haven't you seen a Pontiac Aztec? Those are their advance scouts. Enlightened as they are, the first thing they send is their recycling containers. An "Aztec" is really an intergallactic dumpster. I think you have this confused with the Honda Element. They *are* alien! Decoys. They look so alien that no one would ever believe they were actually extraterrestrial. They're evidence that the aliens have a sense of humor. I think they're shipping containers, for sending back the chicken-fried steak, pizza, Maria Sharapova, and other riches they discover on Earth. -- Ed Huntress |
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On 17 Jun 2005 17:55:46 -0700, "BC" wrote:
It's just a matter of understanding the true scale of things and what we humans are capable of. Google-up the history of the "passenger pigeon" -- that's a very good cautionary tale about what happens when we go about things cluelessly and make wholly naive assumptions about our impact on nature. Being environmentally conscious is not being concerned with the entire planet -- just that extremely thin coating around it that we actually live in. Here's my last trick quiz for the machinists out the according this: http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournam...es/equip.shtml billiard balls are suppose to have a diameter of 2 1/4" +/- .005" If the earth was shrunk down to a diameter of 2 1/4," would it meet the tolerance standard for an official ball? The mean diameter of the Earth is 12,742.02 km, the highest point is 8,850 m (Everest), and the lowest is -10,911 m (Mariana Trench) Is that cosmic enough for you? -BC How about the cosmic truth that if every family unit on the planet got a 1500 square foot split level home on an acre of land, the resulting subdivision would not fill Texas? Gunner "Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown |
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Poker Joker wrote:
"jimpgh2002" wrote in message ... The Earth's climate has changed many times over the years, with no help from mankind. Mankind has changed many things on this planet, without any help from nature. Survival of the fittest is fundamental. You obviously realize that you're not fit to survive, so why not go drink some mercury? Let's face it, all you have is conjecture. Let's face it, all you have is conjecture. You have no way of knowing exactly how a bit of global warming will affect things. You have no way of understanding (no brain=no understanding) exactly how a bit of global warming will affect things. Perhaps, just perhaps, it would make things generally better. Be optimistic. Many people believe bin laden is a good man. Let's hope they're right. We certainly don't need to *DO* anything about him, right? Not until a jury has found him guilty anyway. Now you're pretty insightful and intelligent. No, wait, that was someone else.. you're the one that's an idiot. Sorry about that.. John |
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#32
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Edw wrote:
"jimpgh2002" wrote in message ... On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 02:25:45 GMT, "carl mciver" wrote: wrote in message groups.com... | You act as if the earth is a living entity | | and if you cannot see that it is, I am sorry. | This is a giant rock we live on, surrounded | by a life-form. A living planet. The dirt, | trees, water, air are all living. Without life | you have no dirt (you have sand, dust), | air: created by the living trees that | eat the living dirt. | | Yes, the earth is a living entity. | | Rich Lets step back a bit and look at the really, really big picture. The earth is out in very cold space, receiving heat constantly from a very hot sun. On the inside of the earth it's really, really, f'in' hot too. Every now and then something happens with the inside of the earth and it burps up a little of that really, really hot stuff, along with megatons of truly awful noxious fumes that not even the environmentalists can whine about, and what that burp puts out in just one day man takes hundreds of years to create. So far life has managed to continue long before man ever came along, great environmental disasters or not, and will continue for long afterwards. Can you blame man for the extinction of the dinosaurs? How many species ceased to exist in the millions of years before you ever popped out full of gloom and doom in a viewpoint that can barely cover a hundred years? I'm convinced that if the earth ever cooks/cools off, it will have done it without our help, because we'd have been gone millions of years already. I came across a National Geographic from quite awhile back that was full of very convincing scientists, showing lots of glossy and convincing data, pretty pictures, and after I read it through the first time, I read it again, substituting the two words "global cooling" with the currently popular term of "global warming." Didn't read much different, that's for sure. If it you had no job, but could get one by saying the sky was falling, then you'd likely make sure you keep that job, and push for its continued existence. Would you want to put yourself out of work? Do you think those scientists who harken that the sky is falling want to go have to look for a job where they have actually have to be right to make a living? They can baffle you and the politicians with bull**** and since most of us don't see through the scam, we cough up more money. Stop, you're making too much sense and may disillusion the fear mongers. The genius strikes again. Earth evolved with active volcanoes. Life has adapted. That leaves aside two facts; 1) Volcanic activity has not been shown to have an enduring effect on worldwide climate; 2) No natural process redistributes carbon at anything approaching the level humans now do. If all the climatological research came "from the government" I'd be interested to know why "the government" is funding work by scientists abroad. I'd also like to know why the government has now taken to censoring the work of the scientists they employ. Last, I think you smart types should explain why, if it is natural that gov't. workers cobble up crises to ensure their job security, we should not just conclude that police invent crime, the Pentagon provokes wars and the Dept. of Homeland Security invents terrorist threats? Is no argument too shallow and risible for your endorsement? I would say that the police are certainly involved in inventing new ways of applying the term "criminal" to the behavior of the people. They're not the only ones to blame, the courts and legislature are also involved. For your other two questions, I'll say that I believe recent history has demonstrated them to be true; Colin Powell, as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, telling stories intended to produce war, later shown to be unlikely stories at best.. that's a good one. What about the Homeland Security story suggesting people run out and tape/plastic their house? There's a good example. How could foreign terrorists cause trouble here in an easier fashion than by our having such an organization dedicated to spreading messages from them? This "Homeland Security" bull**** is bull****, those people have no ability to affect a foreign terrorist whatsoever but they sure have the ability to affect an American- and not to his benefit. And what's the result, once we become accustomed to the warnings and they are no longer significant? How do these people demonstrate to themsleves that they have some importance? It won't be by going out and tracking down some foreign terrorist, it'll be by finding ways to call American citizens terrorists. What's the difference between that and the creative actions of the police? There's not much chance of trial by one's peers, that's the difference. Perhaps that doesn't bother you, I don't know.. John |
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BC wrote:
It's just a matter of understanding the true scale of things and what we humans are capable of. Google-up the history of the "passenger pigeon" -- that's a very good cautionary tale about what happens when we go about things cluelessly and make wholly naive assumptions about our impact on nature. Being environmentally conscious is not being concerned with the entire planet -- just that extremely thin coating around it that we actually live in. Here's my last trick quiz for the machinists out the according this: http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournam...es/equip.shtml billiard balls are suppose to have a diameter of 2 1/4" +/- .005" If the earth was shrunk down to a diameter of 2 1/4," would it meet the tolerance standard for an official ball? The mean diameter of the Earth is 12,742.02 km, the highest point is 8,850 m (Everest), and the lowest is -10,911 m (Mariana Trench) Is that cosmic enough for you? -BC I thought Cliff had the bong, man.. pass it over here.. |
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Gunner wrote:
On 17 Jun 2005 17:55:46 -0700, "BC" wrote: It's just a matter of understanding the true scale of things and what we humans are capable of. Google-up the history of the "passenger pigeon" -- that's a very good cautionary tale about what happens when we go about things cluelessly and make wholly naive assumptions about our impact on nature. Being environmentally conscious is not being concerned with the entire planet -- just that extremely thin coating around it that we actually live in. Here's my last trick quiz for the machinists out the according this: http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournam...es/equip.shtml billiard balls are suppose to have a diameter of 2 1/4" +/- .005" If the earth was shrunk down to a diameter of 2 1/4," would it meet the tolerance standard for an official ball? The mean diameter of the Earth is 12,742.02 km, the highest point is 8,850 m (Everest), and the lowest is -10,911 m (Mariana Trench) Is that cosmic enough for you? -BC How about the cosmic truth that if every family unit on the planet got a 1500 square foot split level home on an acre of land, the resulting subdivision would not fill Texas? That's a lotta 'damn Texans, pilgrim.. /the duke Gunner "Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:25:46 -0700, Ken Davey
wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:11:08 GMT, Gunner wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:58:21 -0500, "John Scheldroup" wrote: http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...our-view_x.htm Next month, leaders of industrialized nations are meeting in Scotland. Britain is making global warming a central issue. If Bush joined in, he would do the planet, and future generations, a great favor. So if it ultimately is determined that there is "global warming" and is naturally occurring, will all the Greens commit sepuku right after paying me back for the costs we had to incure in changing from CFCs and such? Gunner I think you are a little confused here Gunner. CFCs have to do with the ozone layer; not global warming. Regards. Ken. Of course. And the ozone hole was destroyed in 1967 when a Nash Rambler hit a deer head on and the R12 in the air conditioner escaped from a busted radiator. What Ozone hole was that again? Gunner "Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown |
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Gunner wrote:
How about the cosmic truth that if every family unit on the planet got a 1500 square foot split level home on an acre of land, the resulting subdivision would not fill Texas? So why whine about Mexicans coming over the border? |
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:21:59 -0400, JohnM wrote:
Cliff wrote: On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:11:19 -0400, JohnM wrote: Besides, if you read into it a bit you'd find that the effort to tie global warming to the ozone thing is taking place. Ummm ..... in what way, exactly, are they the same thing? Cliff, work with me here. I didn't say they are the same thing, I said that the effort to tie them together is being made. Was that Gunner again? I feel that this means that someone mentioning them both in the same sentence isn't something to be confused with confusing them. The "and such" on the end of the quote is what I'm referring to, he's presenting the CFC thing as equal hogwash to the global warming hogwash. Or one of his close kin? I find that I'm still not convinced on either issue, Both are very real and have very sound and known scientific basis. Quibbles are about some of the finer details of the future but the wingers don't know that, not evengrasping what the subjects are about. I blame the educational system. although some googling I've been doing indicates that NASA is certainly convinced on the CFC thing; You can get sunburned a lot faster too. they present it not as a theory but as a demonstrated fact. Strange that they only consider R12 and R11 in that issue though, Those were the major things being produced and released that were making matters worse the fastest. Some of the other Freons and allied chemicals are less stable in the atmosphere and break down faster IIRC. And/or contain less Chlorine to begin with. chlorine released to the atmosphere got no consideration whatsoever, It rapidly dissolves in any moisture & comes down again in the rain & snow. It does not get to the upper atmosphere as almost inert Freons do to be broken down there by the UV. although I did manage to find one page where they did admit that volcanoes *are* a goodly source of what bothers them. Sometimes. Not much that can be done. And, IIRC, they send the stuff high at times .... but a bit later it all comes back down .... Where the two are being tied together is in "atmospheric waves", allegedly a product of global warming and, supposedly, a factor in the temperature of the stratosphere during the polar winters. You'll have to look it up for a better explanation.. I seem to recall something but ... ? Memory fades ... Re; global warming.. I read some thoughts on the issue and the one that stuck with is was "If the climate is changing, we better hope it's warming and not cooling, 'cause warming is something we can do something about". I think that makes sense- do you? We can cut CO2. Hard to get more heat for crops if it's too cold ..... -- Cliff |
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:43:41 GMT, Gunner
wrote: How about the cosmic truth that if every family unit on the planet got a 1500 square foot split level home on an acre of land, the resulting subdivision would not fill Texas? Lost your rocker again? -- Cliff |
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#40
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"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
... In article , says... How about the cosmic truth that if every family unit on the planet got a 1500 square foot split level home on an acre of land, the resulting subdivision would not fill Texas? Sure, if you eliminate all roads and public space, industry, and commercial space - i.e., all infrastrucure - and assume around 40 people per family unit. Actually, I like it. Let's turn Texas into a refugee camp. Ned Simmons Yer too late: Texas already has Mexicans, Guatemalans, Costa Ricans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Colombians, Venezuelans, Panamanians, Jamacans, Vietnamese, Japanese, Indonesians, Phillipinos, Koreans, Chinese (both PRC and others), Indians, Banglas, Pakistanis, -stanians, Iraqis, Iranians, Turks, Greeks, Cypriots, Italians, Egyptians, Saudis, Jordanians, Israelis, Frenchmen, Germans, Czechs, English, Scottish, Irish, Canadians, and Yankees - and those are only some of the ones employed by the City of Houston! |
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