A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

When I worked for Ryder truck the larger trucks had a T-handle on the dash to
pull the compression release. Probably the same on the Hino diesels except they
are solenoid actuated.

On a side note, the GM diesels made me lots of money with their cheesy fuel
cut off and even cheesier injection pump. Got quite a few calls to shut off a
car that wouldn't shut off with the key or worse yet was building rpm until
something broke.We'd use a Halon fire extinguisher and a big towel to shut them
off without damage.

Ahhhh, the good old days. (mid 80's) Where are the Halon fire extinguishers now?

--
Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.





Engineman1 wrote:
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

"Engineman1" wrote in message
...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a
key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop
button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much
experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into
a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people
this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm
asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

This isn't an answer to your question but is an experience with a diesel not
shutting down that I won't ever forget. Thought I'd share....

In an earlier life I was an auto mechanic. I worked for a short time at a GM
dealership. One day I heard a sound that I had never heard before in an auto
shop. I sounded like a jet engine winding up. I looked up and notice people
running out of the shop. The sound was coming from an Oldsmobile sitting a
few stalls away from me. The guy working on it was frantically trying to
shut off the diesel engine. He was trying to stuff rags into the intake,
tried a vise grip on the steel fuel line, and the engine just kept going. It
sounded like it was going to fly apart at any second. Smoke was pouring out.
A truly ugly scene. The sevice manager came running across the shop with a
bucket in hand. He got to the car and dumped the radiator water/antifreeze
mixture into the intake, the engine sputtered and died.

The mechanic had been working on the fuel distribution system and eveidently
didn't do something right. Turning the key off didn't do a thing. I'd like
to know how high that engine rev'ed up to. They torn the engine down and
rebuilt it. I never did hear if the customer was ever told about it.

Lane

"Engineman1" wrote in message
...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a
key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop
button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much
experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into
a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people
this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm
asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

Some diesels have a normally open fuel solenoid in the injection pump. You
need to apply power to the solenoids to stop the flow of fuel. The shut down
may be a solenoid the pushed the injection rack to a position that causes
the pump to stop delivering fuel. Either way you need a few seconds of power
applied to the kill wire. Simplest, least problematic it a plain old
normally open push button. One nice feature of a shut down like this is the
engine does not need any electrical power to run, once it is running it will
go 'till it runs out of fuel or is intentionally shut down. It increases the
dependability somewhat by not needing power to run
Greg

A side note to this;
I was told years ago of diesel backhoes that, when accidently hitting
natural gas pipelines...would ramp up RPMs from the "free" fuel mix,
till rods, etc busted. Or worse.

~Dave

Greg O wrote:

"Engineman1" wrote in message
...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a
key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop
button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much
experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into
a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people
this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm
asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

Some diesels have a normally open fuel solenoid in the injection pump. You
need to apply power to the solenoids to stop the flow of fuel. The shut down
may be a solenoid the pushed the injection rack to a position that causes
the pump to stop delivering fuel. Either way you need a few seconds of power
applied to the kill wire. Simplest, least problematic it a plain old
normally open push button. One nice feature of a shut down like this is the
engine does not need any electrical power to run, once it is running it will
go 'till it runs out of fuel or is intentionally shut down. It increases the
dependability somewhat by not needing power to run
Greg

--
Note, my address is MUNGED

Yea, a diesel over-revving its brains is truely a frightening occasion.
The GM's (lots of Oldmobile diesels.) did this so often it was amazing.
What's really amazing is that GM never got sued for it.

I'm surprised the motor didn't hydraulic when the service manager dumped
the antifreeze water mixture. That's why we used the Halon and had a second
bottle ready if the first didn't stop the motor completely.

Long rags, don't forget the long rags. Normal shop towels could be sucked under
a valve and demolish the motor as well.

As you can tell, we had a "system" for this issue.

--
Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.


Lane wrote:
SNIP
This isn't an answer to your question but is an experience with a diesel not
shutting down that I won't ever forget. Thought I'd share....

In an earlier life I was an auto mechanic. I worked for a short time at a GM
dealership. One day I heard a sound that I had never heard before in an auto
shop. I sounded like a jet engine winding up. I looked up and notice people
running out of the shop. The sound was coming from an Oldsmobile sitting a
few stalls away from me. The guy working on it was frantically trying to
shut off the diesel engine. He was trying to stuff rags into the intake,
tried a vise grip on the steel fuel line, and the engine just kept going. It
sounded like it was going to fly apart at any second. Smoke was pouring out.
A truly ugly scene. The sevice manager came running across the shop with a
bucket in hand. He got to the car and dumped the radiator water/antifreeze
mixture into the intake, the engine sputtered and died.

The mechanic had been working on the fuel distribution system and eveidently
didn't do something right. Turning the key off didn't do a thing. I'd like
to know how high that engine rev'ed up to. They torn the engine down and
rebuilt it. I never did hear if the customer was ever told about it.

Lane

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:18:34 -0400, Dave
wrote:

A side note to this;
I was told years ago of diesel backhoes that, when accidently hitting
natural gas pipelines...would ramp up RPMs from the "free" fuel mix,
till rods, etc busted. Or worse.

~Dave

I saw this happen once in the oil fields but on a slightly larger
scale. The rigs hoist was powered by a 398 Cat..just about the size of
a small condo...and a gas kick managed to make it past the drilling
mud and the dumb**** that was supposed to shut the pipe rams was drunk
in his car. AKA Blowout. Not a big one..but one big enough...

That big old ******* started winding up and up and up and up...and
from a distance as I was running away..I could hear it blow, then
catch the entire rig location on fire. It was a couple weeks before we
went back to work. They had to pull nearly an entire new rig back on
the well.

I wish Id been able to survey the damage to the motor and the rig..but
they hauled it off to Texas to rebuild everything IIRC.

Chuckle..Cactus Drilling, El Dorado Arkansas was the company, and they
were drilling in Michigan. Lots of fun working derrick at -40, and
then have the wind start blowing the snow sideways past the working
board on that Triple.

Gunner, having a nostalgia moment


Greg O wrote:

"Engineman1" wrote in message
...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a
key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop
button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much
experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into
a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people
this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm
asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

Some diesels have a normally open fuel solenoid in the injection pump. You
need to apply power to the solenoids to stop the flow of fuel. The shut down
may be a solenoid the pushed the injection rack to a position that causes
the pump to stop delivering fuel. Either way you need a few seconds of power
applied to the kill wire. Simplest, least problematic it a plain old
normally open push button. One nice feature of a shut down like this is the
engine does not need any electrical power to run, once it is running it will
go 'till it runs out of fuel or is intentionally shut down. It increases the
dependability somewhat by not needing power to run
Greg


"Anyone who cannot cope with firearms is not fully human. At best he
is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe and not
make messes in the house."
With appologies to RAH..

Diesels do not have any air controls. Power level of the engine is
determined by the amount of fuel entering the engine. The governors of these
engines have a throttle control and a fuel cutoff lever. The cutoff lever
can be electric or manual, your choice. Many engine manufacturers have
emergency air shutoff valves as an option, which are very important. Diesels
will run quite happily on their own lube oil. I would not own a diesel
without one. A runaway is a virtual bomb.
Steve
"Engineman1" wrote in message
...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a
key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop
button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much
experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into
a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people
this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm
asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

In article , Engineman1 wrote:

A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm asking
the experts.
Thoughts?

Modern diesel automobiles that I have encountered (and, indeed, modern
tractors and whatnot) have fuel solenoids that shut off the flow of diesel
to stop the vehicle when you shut the key off.
A mechanical diesel (as opposed to an electronic-injection diesel) will
run as long as it has fuel, unless something makes it stop. Every diesel
will have a kill-switch under the hood in case you lose electrical power -
without power you can't move the solenoid to shut off the fuel. If the
solenoid is sprung then you might have a situation where without power the
spring returns the solenoid and the fuel shuts off. That, to me, is not a
good thing. I've made it home in my old diesel truck with a frozen battery
and without enough power to run the turning indicators or anything else, but
the engine ran fine to get me home. If it had have stopped dead somewhere I
would have not been amused.
A diesel of an older design may not have a solenoid but rather a
spring-return lever that acts both as the emergency kill switch and the
usual method of stopping the engine via a cable-pull from the operator's
position.
In the case of these Hinos, if they're similar to the Hinos that I have
dealt with, they will be mechanically injected and definitely of the 'run
until they're out of fuel' variety, so they have to be stopped manually. I
haven't yet seen a Hino with a compression release, so I would strongly
suspect that the button you're pushing is attached to a solenoid that pushes
against a spring-return lever on the injector pump to kill the engine.

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker, rustic, part-time zealot.
mike 'at' @metalmangler.com |
http://www.metalmangler.com| Caledon, Ontario, Canada

Lane lanenospam@copperaccentsdotcom wrote in article
...

"Engineman1" wrote in message
...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started
by a
key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop
button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much
experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran
into
a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most
diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many
people
this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now
I'm
asking
the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

This isn't an answer to your question but is an experience with a diesel
not
shutting down that I won't ever forget. Thought I'd share....

In an earlier life I was an auto mechanic. I worked for a short time at a
GM
dealership. One day I heard a sound that I had never heard before in an
auto
shop. I sounded like a jet engine winding up. I looked up and notice
people
running out of the shop. The sound was coming from an Oldsmobile sitting
a
few stalls away from me. The guy working on it was frantically trying to
shut off the diesel engine. He was trying to stuff rags into the intake,
tried a vise grip on the steel fuel line, and the engine just kept going.
It
sounded like it was going to fly apart at any second. Smoke was pouring
out.
A truly ugly scene. The sevice manager came running across the shop with
a
bucket in hand. He got to the car and dumped the radiator
water/antifreeze
mixture into the intake, the engine sputtered and died.

The mechanic had been working on the fuel distribution system and
eveidently
didn't do something right. Turning the key off didn't do a thing. I'd
like
to know how high that engine rev'ed up to. They torn the engine down and
rebuilt it. I never did hear if the customer was ever told about it.

Lane





At GM school in Dedham, Mass., we were taught to "refer to the service
manual" for runaway conditions.

A service manual placed directly on top of the flat-topped air intake horn
would shut off all air into the engine.

Bob Paulin - R.A.C.E.
Chassis Analysis Services

(Engineman1) wrote in message ...
A friend just bought a yacth with twin Hino diesels. They are started by a key
switch but when they you want to shut them off you have to press a stop button
until the engines quit, then turn the keys off. I don't have much experience
with diesels but years ago when I had a job repairing forklifts I ran into a
similar situation.
This seems to me to be unecesaralary complicated. After all, most diesel
powered cars turn on and off with a key switch. I have asked many people this
question but have gotten answers that didn,t seem plausible. So now I'm asking

the experts.
Thoughts?
Engineman1

Wait until that diesel runs away by consuming it's own lube oil.
You have never been really frightened until you share a bilge with this event.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Diesels do not have any air controls. Power level of the engine is
determined by the amount of fuel entering the engine. The governors of
these
engines have a throttle control and a fuel cutoff lever. The cutoff lever
can be electric or manual, your choice. Many engine manufacturers have
emergency air shutoff valves as an option, which are very important.
Diesels
will run quite happily on their own lube oil. I would not own a diesel
without one. A runaway is a virtual bomb.
Steve

My old Fordson Major tractor has a throttle plate which controls the air
flow. To turn it off you pull a lever and it floods the engine to shut it
off. To start it you also pull the same lever out and let go of the lever
and crank it until it starts. When it starts the lever goes in on it's own.
I have never seen anything like it before. Also if you ether start it you
will blow a head gasket. The tractor was built in Feb. 1957. There is no
glow plugs on it, you just crank it until it starts.

Richard W.

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:25:12 -0700, "Richard W."
wrote:


"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Diesels do not have any air controls. Power level of the engine is
determined by the amount of fuel entering the engine. The governors of
these
engines have a throttle control and a fuel cutoff lever. The cutoff lever
can be electric or manual, your choice. Many engine manufacturers have
emergency air shutoff valves as an option, which are very important.
Diesels
will run quite happily on their own lube oil. I would not own a diesel
without one. A runaway is a virtual bomb.
Steve

My old Fordson Major tractor has a throttle plate which controls the air
flow. To turn it off you pull a lever and it floods the engine to shut it
off. To start it you also pull the same lever out and let go of the lever
and crank it until it starts. When it starts the lever goes in on it's own.
I have never seen anything like it before. Also if you ether start it you
will blow a head gasket. The tractor was built in Feb. 1957. There is no
glow plugs on it, you just crank it until it starts.


Pneumatic governor.
Your 'throttle plate' will be a butterfly valve with a hole in one
side, & a venturi tube through the hole. There's a diaphragm on the
end of the fuel pump rack which senses the pressure drop in the
venturi tube, & adjusts the fuel supply accordingly. Works well until
the diaphragm gets a hole in it G
The start/stop arrangement is probably set so that pulling out the
stop & resetting it lifts the 'excess fuel' stop for easier cold
starting.

Diesels won't generally run away on their own lube oil unless there's
far too much oil - maybe because there's been fuel leakage into the
sump.
2-stroke engines (eg GM) are much more likely to run away than
4-strokes, IMO.


Cheers
Tim

Tim Leech
Dutton Dry-Dock

Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs

pyotr filipivich wrote:

And lo, it came about, that on Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:00:54 -0700 in
rec.crafts.metalworking , "Bart D. Hull" was inspired to
utter:

Yea, a diesel over-revving its brains is truely a frightening occasion.
The GM's (lots of Oldmobile diesels.) did this so often it was amazing.
What's really amazing is that GM never got sued for it.

I'm surprised the motor didn't hydraulic when the service manager dumped
the antifreeze water mixture. That's why we used the Halon and had a second
bottle ready if the first didn't stop the motor completely.

Long rags, don't forget the long rags. Normal shop towels could be sucked under
a valve and demolish the motor as well.

As you can tell, we had a "system" for this issue.

What this tells me is that it occurred often enough for a "most effective
way" to be discovered. :-)

--
pyotr filipivich
We didn't have these sorts of problems when I was a boy,
back when snakes wore shoes and dirt was $2 a pound,
if you could find it. We had to make our own from rocks!

When I was in the Navy (about 50 years back) we kept a canvas bag
near the air filter to stop the engine in case of a run away.

The ones with the blower (GM 261?) were known for lube oil leaks into the air stream.

Bill K7NOM

Bill Janssen wrote:
pyotr filipivich wrote:


And lo, it came about, that on Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:00:54 -0700 in
rec.crafts.metalworking , "Bart D. Hull" was inspired to
utter:


Yea, a diesel over-revving its brains is truely a frightening occasion.
The GM's (lots of Oldmobile diesels.) did this so often it was amazing.
What's really amazing is that GM never got sued for it.

I'm surprised the motor didn't hydraulic when the service manager dumped
the antifreeze water mixture. That's why we used the Halon and had a second
bottle ready if the first didn't stop the motor completely.

Long rags, don't forget the long rags. Normal shop towels could be sucked under
a valve and demolish the motor as well.

As you can tell, we had a "system" for this issue.

What this tells me is that it occurred often enough for a "most effective
way" to be discovered. :-)

--
pyotr filipivich
We didn't have these sorts of problems when I was a boy,
back when snakes wore shoes and dirt was $2 a pound,
if you could find it. We had to make our own from rocks!


When I was in the Navy (about 50 years back) we kept a canvas bag
near the air filter to stop the engine in case of a run away.

I'm glad it worked in the Navy. When I was in the Army,
I heard of a runaway deuce and a half engine. The mechanic
took off his field jacket and threw it over the intake.
The engine ate the jacket buttons, zipper and all.

While this is not realy in line with the content of this thread, I
seen a diesel get stopped this past Wednesday......Driver lost it in
a very hard flat turn going well over the speed limit, trailer got
into the ditch, tractor stayed on the road itself, both started to
slide sideways and then both roller over on their side. From the time
the trailer and tractor rolled over (you could tell exactly where the
trailer side was against the roadbed as it melted the reflector of the
sidemarker into the blacktop) it still traveled better than 240 feet
on its side with the tractor leading the tanker trailer, until the
cab and hood of the tractor was sheared off by a brand new power pole,
which eventually came to rest at the backwall of the sleeper. The
drivers head was between the sleeper wall and the power pole. The
driver only lasted another 3 or 4 minutes after the rig came to a
stop. Not much I could do for him, except watch him die. Lost his
pulse and could not detect it in wrist or neck and his eyes did not
have any reflex action when I touched his eyeball. Could not do any
CPR because there was no way to really get to him to do it. The truck
kept flameing up with hot oil and diesel fuel running on to the
turbocharger and manifold (CAT diesel powered) which was in a Big
long nosed Peterbuilt Tractor) so I had my hands full trying to see
what I could do for the driver, and trying to keep the fire out
without a fire extinguisher. LOts of folks stopped and then drove off,
not a darn person offered to help or lend a hand. Finally a lady came
over and ran for an extinguisher and towels etc. She lived in the
middle of that turn and was just accross the street checking her mail
when he crashed. She was horror struck and she was apparently stuned
by what just happened about 50 feet from where she was standing. She
managed to pee all over herself, but once she regaied composure of
herself she was terriffic at helping do what she could do. She ran and
fetched a fire extinguisher from her house and brought it back, but
would not come over to the truck as she was deathfully afraid of
seeing an accident victim.

Took over 25 minutes for paramedics to get there from 8 miles away, 49
minutes for any law enforcement officer to show, and almost and hour
and a half for any fire trucks that came from 12 miles away. Hazmat
team took over 4 1/2 hours to get on scene from 18 miles away. Up to
that point I was still the only one that had gone over to the driver,
as everyone else refused to attend to him (already dead) because of
the contents in the tanker trailer (some kind of acid) which was
leaking and running out on the ground and foaming all up. So it was
over 4 1/2 hours until someone else went over and said, yep he is
dead, they took my word that he had died, and who the hell am I, I am
not a certified medical tech or coroner. Truly pathetic rescue and
emergency response from this area. Totally unbelieveable. Entire road
was eventualy shut down for over 14 hours until they cleaned up the
mess. It happened about 1/4 mile up the road from my house and I was
behind him, when it happened. I had to wait for him to pass by my
driveway so I could pull out, and saw the whole 9 yards unfold. I had
a feeling he was going to loose it in the turn due to his rate of
speed and no signs of his brake lights that he was attempting to slow
it down. Unreal and hard to fathom, how a trucker could not see the
sign thats posted with a hard curve and 35 MPH speed limit posted. ON
the straightaway the speed is 55, down to 45 and then 35 for the turn.
He was gong better than 80 mph from what they figured when he entered
the turn.

But laying a diesel on its side and hitting a pole will stop one just
fine! (added to keep post on topic )
--
Visit my website: Remove nospam for correct address
http://www.nospamfrugalmachinist.com

Contents: foundry and general metal working and lots of related projects.
Regards
Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye
Opinions are strictly those of my wife....I have had no input whatsoever.
Remove nospam from email address

"timleech" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:25:12 -0700, "Richard W."
wrote:


"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Diesels do not have any air controls. Power level of the engine is
determined by the amount of fuel entering the engine. The governors of
these
engines have a throttle control and a fuel cutoff lever. The cutoff
lever
can be electric or manual, your choice. Many engine manufacturers have
emergency air shutoff valves as an option, which are very important.
Diesels
will run quite happily on their own lube oil. I would not own a diesel
without one. A runaway is a virtual bomb.
Steve

My old Fordson Major tractor has a throttle plate which controls the
air
flow. To turn it off you pull a lever and it floods the engine to shut it
off. To start it you also pull the same lever out and let go of the lever
and crank it until it starts. When it starts the lever goes in on it's
own.
I have never seen anything like it before. Also if you ether start it you
will blow a head gasket. The tractor was built in Feb. 1957. There is no
glow plugs on it, you just crank it until it starts.


Pneumatic governor.
Your 'throttle plate' will be a butterfly valve with a hole in one
side, & a venturi tube through the hole. There's a diaphragm on the
end of the fuel pump rack which senses the pressure drop in the
venturi tube, & adjusts the fuel supply accordingly. Works well until
the diaphragm gets a hole in it G
The start/stop arrangement is probably set so that pulling out the
stop & resetting it lifts the 'excess fuel' stop for easier cold
starting.

Diesels won't generally run away on their own lube oil unless there's
far too much oil - maybe because there's been fuel leakage into the
sump.
2-stroke engines (eg GM) are much more likely to run away than
4-strokes, IMO.


Cheers
Tim


I have seen a VW diesel continue to run from the oil coming from the
crankcase vent tube.

Richard W.

The diesel I have shuts down by cutting off the fuel flow to the injectors. There
is a solinoid that, when energized, retracts and lets the fuel cutoff level move to
the run position. When de-energized the same solinoid moves the fuel level to the
stop position and holds it there. Works nice. For emergency shutdown use a board
over the air intake.

John

"Roy" wrote in message
...
BIG SNIP
But laying a diesel on its side and hitting a pole will stop one just
fine! (added to keep post on topic )
--
Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye

Roy
I feel for you. It is terrible to be a witness to something like that.
Hopefully the memories won't cause you and her any problems.

BTW, where abouts do you live?
Lane

Roy wrote:


. I had to wait for him to pass by my
driveway so I could pull out, and saw the whole 9 yards unfold. I had
a feeling he was going to loose it in the turn due to his rate of
speed and no signs of his brake lights that he was attempting to slow
it down. Unreal and hard to fathom, how a trucker could not see the
sign thats posted with a hard curve and 35 MPH speed limit posted. ON
the straightaway the speed is 55, down to 45 and then 35 for the turn.
He was gong better than 80 mph from what they figured when he entered
the turn.


He was asleep! With his eyes open, of course, but he was driving in his
sleep.
I've seen a few truck accidents like this, and even did it once myself when
driving tired. I was fascinated by the way those wooden sticks with the
dayglo
paint were spinning as they broke in half on the front fender, when suddenly
I woke up and said to myself "Hey, this is SERIOUS!!!!!" It was a
well-marked
place where a 2-lane each way divided highway converted to one lane each
way, and I was just drifting along, pralleling the car in the other
lane, when
i finally snapped out of it. So, I know from my own experience that it
DEFINITELY can happen to anyone.

The fact that he didn't brake at all is a very clear indication he was not
"with it".

Jon

Richard W. wrote:
"timleech" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 10:25:12 -0700, "Richard W."
wrote:


"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...

Diesels do not have any air controls. Power level of the engine is
determined by the amount of fuel entering the engine. The governors of

these

engines have a throttle control and a fuel cutoff lever. The cutoff

lever

can be electric or manual, your choice. Many engine manufacturers have
emergency air shutoff valves as an option, which are very important.

Diesels

will run quite happily on their own lube oil. I would not own a diesel
without one. A runaway is a virtual bomb.
Steve

My old Fordson Major tractor has a throttle plate which controls the

air

flow. To turn it off you pull a lever and it floods the engine to shut it
off. To start it you also pull the same lever out and let go of the lever
and crank it until it starts. When it starts the lever goes in on it's

own.

I have never seen anything like it before. Also if you ether start it you
will blow a head gasket. The tractor was built in Feb. 1957. There is no
glow plugs on it, you just crank it until it starts.


Pneumatic governor.
Your 'throttle plate' will be a butterfly valve with a hole in one
side, & a venturi tube through the hole. There's a diaphragm on the
end of the fuel pump rack which senses the pressure drop in the
venturi tube, & adjusts the fuel supply accordingly. Works well until
the diaphragm gets a hole in it G
The start/stop arrangement is probably set so that pulling out the
stop & resetting it lifts the 'excess fuel' stop for easier cold
starting.

Diesels won't generally run away on their own lube oil unless there's
far too much oil - maybe because there's been fuel leakage into the
sump.
2-stroke engines (eg GM) are much more likely to run away than
4-strokes, IMO.


Cheers
Tim



I have seen a VW diesel continue to run from the oil coming from the
crankcase vent tube.

Been there and done that. What happens is crankcase oil
builds up in the air box until it gets to the level of
the passages to the valves. Hit a bump and the engine
swallows a big gulp of oil and runs full-throttle for
about 5 seconds. Scared the hell out of me the first
time. Pulling the cover off the air box and mopping
it out once a month 'fixed' the problem til I got rid
of the car.

In article , Bob Powell wrote:
The old Mercedes 240's & 300's start and stop with the ignition key
but "off" is not electric. The key off position closes a vacuum valve
stops working, there is a red shutoff lever under the hood.

The odd thing about the older ones is there was no automatic cold
start fast idle, instead a little knob you have to twist to the left
for the engine to start cold, then twist back unless you want to
cruise 30 mph at idle. The knob was an effective anti-theft device.

the things i learn here(!), i always thought that was just a throttle
control. guess i never really left it on.

Those are neat cars, built like tanks, 4 wheel independent suspension,
4 wheel disk brakes, and powered by a 60 hp (240D) or 77 hp (300D)
motor. Not enough power to stress the car much, many of the ones on
the road today have 500K+ miles on the clock. Bob

my friend always asked me, "where is the meter?", or, "did you have
the meter taken out? nice job, can't hardly tell..." he spent
a couple of years in Germany and rode in plenty of 220D taxi's. grin

--Loren

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:21:23 -0700, "Lane"
lanenospam@copperaccentsdotcom wrote:

x-
x-"Roy" wrote in message
...
x-BIG SNIP
x- But laying a diesel on its side and hitting a pole will stop one just
x- fine! (added to keep post on topic )
x- --
x- Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye
x-
x-Roy
x-I feel for you. It is terrible to be a witness to something like that.
x-Hopefully the memories won't cause you and her any problems.
x-
x-BTW, where abouts do you live?
x-Lane
x-

Rural Lowndes county, In Alabama. Bout 12 miles out of the Capital
city of Montgomery.

--
Visit my website: Remove nospam for correct address
http://www.nospamfrugalmachinist.com

Contents: foundry and general metal working and lots of related projects.
Regards
Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye
Opinions are strictly those of my wife....I have had no input whatsoever.
Remove nospam from email address

It might not help, but I would write a letter to the editor of the
local paper.
You could just edit what you wrote here a bit and add that there
should be an investigation as to why there was such slow response
times. Suggesting that the elected officials are not doing their job
of overseeing the emergency crews. Stress that there were plenty of
emergency personnel when they got there ( if that is true ).

Dan



Roy wrote in message

Took over 25 minutes for paramedics to get there from 8 miles away, 49
minutes for any law enforcement officer to show, and almost and hour
and a half for any fire trucks that came from 12 miles away. Hazmat
team took over 4 1/2 hours to get on scene from 18 miles away.
--

Roy aka Chipmaker // Foxeye

Bart D. Hull wrote:
Yea, a diesel over-revving its brains is truely a frightening occasion.
The GM's (lots of Oldmobile diesels.) did this so often it was amazing.
What's really amazing is that GM never got sued for it.

I'm surprised the motor didn't hydraulic when the service manager dumped
the antifreeze water mixture. That's why we used the Halon and had a second
bottle ready if the first didn't stop the motor completely.

It'll tend to have problems passing the air filter, so will throttle it
quite effectively, as well as breaking up lumps of water.
You need to get quite a lot of water into the engine to get past what
the engine can take.
Not recommended of course, but maybe better than it racing to destruction.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
"The device every conquerer, yes, every altruistic liberator should be required
to wear on his shield... is a little girl and her kitten, at ground zero"
- Sir Dominic Flandry in Poul Andersons 'A Knight of Ghosts and Shadows'

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:40:08 +0000 (UTC), Ian Stirling
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

I did hear an interesting story about a guy who fired a water fire
extinguisher (hose) into a jet engine intake when it belched flames
and he panicked, causing the engine to race out of control.

Bart D. Hull wrote:
Yea, a diesel over-revving its brains is truely a frightening occasion.
The GM's (lots of Oldmobile diesels.) did this so often it was amazing.
What's really amazing is that GM never got sued for it.

I'm surprised the motor didn't hydraulic when the service manager dumped
the antifreeze water mixture. That's why we used the Halon and had a second
bottle ready if the first didn't stop the motor completely.

It'll tend to have problems passing the air filter, so will throttle it
quite effectively, as well as breaking up lumps of water.
You need to get quite a lot of water into the engine to get past what
the engine can take.
Not recommended of course, but maybe better than it racing to destruction.

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The rest sit around and make snide comments.

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Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
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Greg O scribed in
:

Some diesels have a normally open fuel solenoid in the injection
pump. You need to apply power to the solenoids to stop the flow of
[]
engine does not need any electrical power to run, once it is
running it will go 'till it runs out of fuel or is intentionally
shut down. It increases the dependability somewhat by not needing
power to run Greg

this is, to me, a hazard. I ran turbocharged diesel alternators in
the army. 50kw 3 phase 230 volts. one of them had lostit's
electronic control panel before I arrived, and the starting method
was to tie the fuel solenoid up with some wire, then bridge the
terminals on the starter with the cap from an antitank mine. started
up everytime.
but
when the service chappy put the wrong oil in it and it overheated, it
could not turn itself off. the person who came to call me refused to
go near it because it was so hot the paint was peeling off the block.
I had to go up to it and remove the wire, just a tug on the slip knot
and it died, no problem.
the turbo was never the same after that.....but within weeks I was
posted elsewhere so it didn't matter to me. service chappy just
waited for it to cool down and changed the oil for the right stuff.

the 50kva unit ran the walk in fridge for the kitchen during the day,
with a 15kva run at night for essential services like radios.

swarf, steam and wind

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