Boss recently bought a Hardinge DV 59 and I can't get the thing to
close the collets. I tried two collets and after taking the thing
apart I suspect something is missing. It appears to me that the three
little fingers inside the adjusting ring should have a piece that force
them up when the handle is pushed back to the closed position.
One of these days we'll get a camera so I can post pictures instead of
trying to explain things.
Ken

wrote:

Boss recently bought a Hardinge DV 59 and I can't get the thing to
close the collets. I tried two collets and after taking the thing
apart I suspect something is missing. It appears to me that the three
little fingers inside the adjusting ring should have a piece that force
them up when the handle is pushed back to the closed position.
One of these days we'll get a camera so I can post pictures instead of
trying to explain things.
Ken


Call Hardinge!

GWE

In article .com,
wrote:
Boss recently bought a Hardinge DV 59 and I can't get the thing to
close the collets. I tried two collets and after taking the thing
apart I suspect something is missing. It appears to me that the three
little fingers inside the adjusting ring should have a piece that force
them up when the handle is pushed back to the closed position.

I have never examined one from Hardinge, but I will try to
describe how the one on my 12x24" Clausing works.


1) The main tube reaches through to screw onto the back of the collet.

2) It has a cap which fits around a flange on the end of the
spindle. This cap has a series of notches in it, which engage a
tiltable key. You tilt the key out of engagement to screw the
drawbar onto the back of the collet, or to adjust the amount of
take-up needed.

This cap rests against the flange.

3) The cap has another cavity facing away from the headstock in
which the three L-shaped levers live. The levers protrude
partially through the cavity floor, to press against the spindle
flange. As the ends of the L-shaped levers are pressed outwards
from the center of the shaft, they press upon the flange,
drawing the drawbar out a little.

Note that it only draws a little, so the drawtube has to be
screwed onto the collet just the right amount -- and may have to
be adjusted if the diameter of the workpiece varies.

4) Attached to the headstock is a support to which is attached a
hand lever. This lever carries a bearing in a gimbal. The
inner race of the bearing contains a cylindrical projection
which fits inside the ends of the three L-shaped levers. The
part of the cylindrical projection closer to the bearing is
turned to a smaller diameter than the part closer to the
headstock.

5) When the hand lever is towards the headstock, the rounded ends
of the L-shaped levers drop into the reduced diameter of the
projection.

When the hand lever is away from the headstock, the rounded ends
of the L-shaped levers ride up to the larger diameter. This
pushes on the spindle flange, thus drawing the drawtube out and
closing the collets.

6) The bearing in the hand lever's gimbals allows the rest of the
closer assembly to rotate with the spindle, while the hand lever
does not rotate.

Is it possible that you are missing the hand lever and its
bearing and cylindrical projection?

Or -- is it possible that you are not pushing the lever far
enough towards the headstock to allow the rounded ends of the levers to
drop into the reduced diameter section?

While I've been typing this, a script has been building a
skeleton web page from some photos which I just shot. Now to go flesh
out the skeleton with some text.

Nope -- it is not yet done. The URL will be (when it is done:

http://www2.d-and-d.com/HOW_IT_WORKS...ser/index.html

O.K. Done. So you can go there to see some photos to go with my
description here.

I hope that this helps,
DoN.
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Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Boss recently bought a Hardinge DV 59 and I can't get the thing to
close the collets. I tried two collets and after taking the thing
apart I suspect something is missing. It appears to me that the three
little fingers inside the adjusting ring should have a piece that force
them up when the handle is pushed back to the closed position.
One of these days we'll get a camera so I can post pictures instead of
trying to explain things.
Ken


Call Hardinge!

Or Royal, who probably made the closer. They've been helpful and friendly
to me in the past.

Mike

I tried two collets and after taking the thing
apart I suspect something is missing.

These things involve spacer components and such that are easily misplaced.

On 14 Jul 2005 13:24:21 -0700, wrote:

Boss recently bought a Hardinge DV 59 and I can't get the thing to
close the collets. I tried two collets and after taking the thing
apart I suspect something is missing. It appears to me that the three
little fingers inside the adjusting ring should have a piece that force
them up when the handle is pushed back to the closed position.
One of these days we'll get a camera so I can post pictures instead of
trying to explain things.
Ken

Ken..how are you trying to adjust the collet closer?

If you can supply a photo of the closer, I may be able to supply any
missing parts. Ive some collet closers and parts for DV 59s, as well
as other accessories, such as cross slides etc. May I assume you have
the turret version?

Gunner, who specializes in Hardinge lathes of all types through the
AHCs

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article , Gunner says...

On 14 Jul 2005 13:24:21 -0700, wrote:

Ken..how are you trying to adjust the collet closer?

If you can supply a photo of the closer, I may be able to supply any
missing parts. Ive some collet closers and parts for DV 59s, as well
as other accessories, such as cross slides etc. May I assume you have
the turret version?

Gunner, who specializes in Hardinge lathes of all types through the
AHCs

I could take mine apart if he needs a run-through.

Gunner, do you by any chance have a lead on a *small* slide for
a shaublin 70 lathe? I'd like to fit something like that to
a 7" machine.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"levers protrude
partially through the cavity floor, to press against the
spindle
flange. "

This is the problem I'm pretty sure after staring at it for an hour and
taking it apart over and over. I started thinking. Funny how that
seems to help sometimes. The levers arn't touching the flange because
the flange is too forward for this closer. I suspect when they sold
us the machine they gave us one that didn't fit.
I borrowed one from another shop and it also didn't work. The tube
seems to be just a bit too long or the flange is too far forward.
Thanks everybody for taking the time for my latest problem
Ken

In article .com,
wrote:
"levers protrude
partially through the cavity floor, to press against the
spindle
flange. "

This is the problem I'm pretty sure after staring at it for an hour and
taking it apart over and over. I started thinking. Funny how that
seems to help sometimes. The levers arn't touching the flange because
the flange is too forward for this closer. I suspect when they sold
us the machine they gave us one that didn't fit.
I borrowed one from another shop and it also didn't work. The tube
seems to be just a bit too long or the flange is too far forward.

The quick-and-dirty fix (if the drawtube is not too much too
long) would be to make a washer to go inside the cavity to space it just
enough out to give you a reasonable adjustment range on the collet. (I
would suggest that at the proper size, the collet should be in about 2/3
of its threads, to give adjustment range and strength. This should be
no larger than the diameter between two opposite notch bottoms.

I would probably make one a little too thick, of 4140, and then
harden it and surface grind it to the right thickness.

A second (and better) solution would be to make a replacement
flange which is enough longer than the original so the collet tightens.
(you could determine the required length by trying the spacer above.) I
would make the flange out of a good hardenable steel (say 4140), and
harden and temper it so the notches won't wear with time, and eventually
have enough of a slope to disengage the tilting key.

Another better solution would be to turn off some length from
the end of the drawtube, but this might mean that you would have to
extend the bore and the threads at the end. And, I'm not sure how easy
it would be to separate the drawtube from the rest of the mechanism to
allow it to be chucked and turned.

I had to do the reverse when I switched from a 2-1/4x8 threaded
spindle nose to an L-00 spindle nose. I had to make an extender for the
threads, to move them about an extra inch. At least, that was plenty of
length so the internal threads did not risk running into the external
threads which mated with the original. I used a 6-jaw chuck to minimize
chucking distortion of the extension while I was boring and threading
it.

Once you have made an extension (not you in this case for your
problem), degrease the threads and Loctite the extension in place, so
you don't wind up with the extension trapping a collet in the nose
adaptor. *That* is a pain to get clear. :-)

Thanks everybody for taking the time for my latest problem

You're welcome.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 15 Jul 2005 08:01:55 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

On 14 Jul 2005 13:24:21 -0700, wrote:

Ken..how are you trying to adjust the collet closer?

If you can supply a photo of the closer, I may be able to supply any
missing parts. Ive some collet closers and parts for DV 59s, as well
as other accessories, such as cross slides etc. May I assume you have
the turret version?

Gunner, who specializes in Hardinge lathes of all types through the
AHCs

I could take mine apart if he needs a run-through.

Gunner, do you by any chance have a lead on a *small* slide for
a shaublin 70 lathe? I'd like to fit something like that to
a 7" machine.

Jim

Sorry Jim, I sold all the Shaublin stuff I had a couple years ago. If
you are willing to use something that "will work", I might be able to
find you something. Such are rather easy to make..as the reverse
dovetail of the ways is easy to match.

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

On 15 Jul 2005 10:28:43 -0700, wrote:

"levers protrude
partially through the cavity floor, to press against the
spindle
flange. "

This is the problem I'm pretty sure after staring at it for an hour and
taking it apart over and over. I started thinking. Funny how that
seems to help sometimes. The levers arn't touching the flange because
the flange is too forward for this closer. I suspect when they sold
us the machine they gave us one that didn't fit.
I borrowed one from another shop and it also didn't work. The tube
seems to be just a bit too long or the flange is too far forward.
Thanks everybody for taking the time for my latest problem
Ken

If the draw tube is the correct length..slide it all the way in to the
closer "nut" and reach into the spindle nose with your finger. There
should be approx 1/8'-3/16" gap between the inside of the spindle nose
recess and the start of the draw tube.

I really wish you had a camera. There is a trick to putting the
fingers back in the right postion if the collet closer has been
removed and the fingers pulled out of position

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

"There should be approx 1/8'-3/16" gap"
There is no gap and I the 2nd closer I borrowed is even worse. I'm
wondering now how to get that flange off and thinking maybe I could
make a spacer to go behind it. This is about the only solution we can
do with the equipment available.
"I really wish you had a camera." We now have a camera and it should
be able to put something on web. What do you want to see?
I e-mailed you about those accessories to our Hardinge and didn't get
a reply. We are interested in a cross slide and 3 and 4 jaw chucks.
Ken

In article .com,
says...

"I really wish you had a camera." We now have a camera and it should
be able to put something on web. What do you want to see?

OK I took a good look at my hardinge closers this weekend.

Basically the sliding mechanism is more or less cone-shaped,
and there are three fingers which bear on the cone.

The fingers are "L" shaped and pivot on the body of the
closer. The short arm of the Ls are visible inside the
right hand side of the closer body as three small tabs which
extend outwards from the body of the closer slightly as the
sliding mechanism is shifted to the left.

Those three tabs bear on the flat surface of the detent wheel
that is on the end of the drawbar tube - the detents that
accept the single latch to hold the collet setting.

So the idea is the lever is shifted to the left, and the
profile of the cone-shaped part extends the tabs out to
apply draw force to the drawbar. The cone's profile is
flat at the final region, so it will hold a tension setting
there.

The draw force on the bar tightens the collet into the spindle
nose and retains the part.

Which part is not working correctly?

1) does the sliding mechanism not slide?

2) do the tabs not extend outwards to tension the drawbar?

3) is the drawbar simply too long to allow the collet to thread
in all the way and tension up?

There's not that much to go wrong, there should be a setting on
the rotary handwheel that gives the correct 'snap' as the
fingers go overcenter on the cone.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 18 Jul 2005 07:26:23 -0700, wrote:

"There should be approx 1/8'-3/16" gap"
There is no gap and I the 2nd closer I borrowed is even worse. I'm
wondering now how to get that flange off and thinking maybe I could
make a spacer to go behind it. This is about the only solution we can
do with the equipment available.
"I really wish you had a camera." We now have a camera and it should
be able to put something on web. What do you want to see?
I e-mailed you about those accessories to our Hardinge and didn't get
a reply. We are interested in a cross slide and 3 and 4 jaw chucks.
Ken

email me pictures of the collet closer body, the nut at the back of
the spindle, a closeup of them together if you can..etc.

I havent seen any emails about Hardinge parts recently. Ive got an
aggressive spam killer so it may have spooged your email.

try my email addy..drop ping on the group and
Ill go check it. Its not something I check everyday, only use it for
things like this. 2gig mailbox for free is good G

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years,
the world has a long way to go to regain
its credibility and reputation with the US."
unknown

"Which part is not working correctly?

1) does the sliding mechanism not slide?
2) do the tabs not extend outwards to tension the drawbar?
3) is the drawbar simply too long to allow the collet to thread
in all the way and tension up?
There's not that much to go wrong, there should be a setting on the
rotary handwheel that gives the correct 'snap' as the fingers go
overcenter on the cone

It appears that the drawbar is too long and that means that when the
collets are threaded they can not be drawn up since the tabs are not
close enought to engage the flange because the drawbar is bottoming out.

In article .com,
wrote:
"There should be approx 1/8'-3/16" gap"
There is no gap and I the 2nd closer I borrowed is even worse. I'm
wondering now how to get that flange off and thinking maybe I could
make a spacer to go behind it.

On mine, it is bored to slide over the lathe spindle, and is
then held with setscrews. a spacer there is probably not practical.

The options which I see (and suggested in the middle of my
longer reply earlier) a

1) Make a new flange which is longer. (Probably require heat
treating capability.

or

2) Make a spacer washer to go around the drawbar tube to live
between the lever arms and the flange. You probably want to
make this out of a good steel, and to harden and surface grind
it -- but you could make up a quick-and-dirty one to try with
just mild steel, and turning.

3) Shorten the drawbar -- which requires a way to de-attach it
from the rest of the mechanism while you mount it in a chuck to
part off the excess length, and (probably) bore the ID a little
deeper and pick up the existing thread to extend it.

This is about the only solution we can
do with the equipment available.

You have a lathe, obviously. It proably has a 3-jaw or 4-jaw
chuck. With those, option 2 should be possible at a minimum. It will
get you in service, though every time you remove the drawbar assembly
you will have to be careful to not lose the spacer.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article .com,
says...

It appears that the drawbar is too long and that means that when the
collets are threaded they can not be drawn up since the tabs are not
close enought to engage the flange because the drawbar is bottoming out.

So it sounds like if you inked the collet threads, you would see that
the drawbar female threads are completely engaged - that the end of
drawbar is hitting the thread relief edge on the collet.

If this is the correct collet setup for this lathe, what happened
that 'stretched' the drawbar? Or is this a retrofit, or a closer
off of a different machine?

One way to make this work would be to face off the end of the
drawbar, and cut the threads deeper in it. It's a bit tough
picking up fine ID threads like that, but it can be done.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

1) Make a new flange which is longer. (Probably require heat
treating capability.
or

2) Make a spacer washer to go around the drawbar tube to live
between the lever arms and the flange. You probably want to
make this out of a good steel, and to harden and surface grind
it -- but you could make up a quick-and-dirty one to try with
just mild steel, and turning.


3) Shorten the drawbar -- which requires a way to de-attach it
from the rest of the mechanism while you mount it in a chuck to

part off the excess length, and (probably) bore the ID a little

deeper and pick up the existing thread to extend it. "

I'm going to either make this longer flange or a spacer if possible.
I only have a little toy Sears lathe, and toy mill but do have a heat
treating furnace. We are trying to get this place up to WW2 standards
and right now its very hard to get anything done.
Right now I'm busy trying to get out new 1910 Horizontal mill going
and fix the buggered threads on our new Ebay grinder.
Ken

"email me pictures of the collet closer body, the nut at the back of
the spindle, a closeup of them together if you can..etc. "
I e-mailed about that cross slide but no answere. My e-mail is

I took pictures and when we were trying to e-mail them it wouldn't
work and somehow screwed up the computer. Boss was waiting for me in
the parking lot this morning just a bit upset. He told me to fix it
even if it took all day. He's had one to many all day sessions fixing
the thing. I won't be trying to send any more pictures.
Ken