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#1
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Heated driveway information?
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne |
#2
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Suzanne Couturiaux wrote:
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne Are you really ready for the cost of heating it? It is really going it hit your utility bills. I can't imagine of any good way of adding it to an existing driveway. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#3
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40 years ago the people across from us put in a heated driveway. When they
saw what it did to their utility bill they stopped using it. Unless there has been one heck of an improvement, it must be even worse today. Good luck. |
#4
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"Joseph Meehan" wrote:
Suzanne Couturiaux wrote: My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne Are you really ready for the cost of heating it? It is really going it hit your utility bills. I can't imagine of any good way of adding it to an existing driveway. For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights. |
#5
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"John Hines" wrote in message veway. For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights. I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be like trying to heat the entire planet as the heat will go down as well as up. I can't imagine the cost. |
#6
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"John Hines" wrote in message veway. For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights. I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be like trying to heat the entire planet as the heat will go down as well as up. I can't imagine the cost. Many (well at least some) expensive homes use heating loops in driveways...since the loop is nearer the top surface than the bottom, it has less trouble getting to the top surface. I knew a few houses that had/have them in TN, but I'm sure the cost wasn't a factor for the homeowners..."if you have to ask about gas mileage, you can't afford it..." |
#7
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- Suzanne Couturiaux -
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). - Nehmo - I've been studying it myself. See the thread, Roads, Heated Needed http://snipurl.com/c351 . There are several systems, but none lend themselves easily to a retrofit. Electric cost is less than what you would expect. One estimate has an average at US$ .80/square meter per snowstorm. My own figures conservatively come to 4 cents per linear lane foot per hour of use. You'll need about 50 watts per square foot. Also, of course, you'll have the initial capital cost. If you insist on a retrofit, a possible less-elegant solution is a deicing spray system. -- ********************* * Nehmo Sergheyev * ********************* |
#8
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"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"John Hines" wrote in message veway. For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights. I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be like trying to heat the entire planet as the heat will go down as well as up. I can't imagine the cost. Yeah. I'm thinking of doing a ramp to replace the steps to the back door, and that I would have to do something like that for it to be usable in the winter. |
#9
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What method do you use to heat your home?
Are you going to replace the entire driveway or retro fit the old slab for heat. It would be more cost effective to replace the drive if its short, and pour the concrete to at least 6" thick. If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not have to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the heat.I would think 35 degs would be sufficient. I think you could shut the manifold valve off when the weather is not calling for snow and not heat the slab. Electric heat would be too expensive, what about just hiring some one to shovel for you? Tom "Suzanne Couturiaux" wrote in message ... My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne |
#10
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If you are concerned about the cost, don't bother getting one (they
are very expensive to operate). However, there are alternatives. Park on the street, hire/contract someone to clear your driveway or move to a warmer climate. On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:45:54 -0500, Suzanne Couturiaux wrote: My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne |
#11
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I have heard of home heating schemes which gather a bit of "free" heat
using a long length of pipe run back & forth through the ground below frost level to raise water pumped through it to 50 some degrees. I wonder if this might then be circulated through the driveway, perhaps with a bit of supplemental heating. Seems like if you ran it prior to a possible snow, you could warm the drive enough to prevent frozen accumulation, easier than melting it once it's there. Dan twfsa wrote: What method do you use to heat your home? Are you going to replace the entire driveway or retro fit the old slab for heat. It would be more cost effective to replace the drive if its short, and pour the concrete to at least 6" thick. If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not have to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the heat.I would think 35 degs would be sufficient. I think you could shut the manifold valve off when the weather is not calling for snow and not heat the slab. Electric heat would be too expensive, what about just hiring some one to shovel for you? Tom "Suzanne Couturiaux" wrote in message ... My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne |
#12
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"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message There are several systems, but none lend themselves easily to a retrofit. Electric cost is less than what you would expect. One estimate has an average at US$ .80/square meter per snowstorm. My own figures conservatively come to 4 cents per linear lane foot per hour of use. You'll need about 50 watts per square foot. Also, of course, you'll have the initial capital cost. I wonder how long it would take to get the surface from say, 5 degrees to 33 degrees. If the numbers work: Take a driveway that is 10' x 50'. That is 500 square feet times 50 watts per sq.ft. = 25,000 watts. 25,000 watts = 25 kW * .12 per kW hour comes to $3 per hour. In a modest snowfall, it would run about 12 hours or $36. In a larger storm it could easily run 24 to 36 hours here. I'd also have to add at least a 200A service to handle it. |
#13
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- Edwin Pawlowski -
I wonder how long it would take to get the surface from say, 5 degrees to 33 degrees. - Nehmo - You only need to get the surface of the pavement above freezing while there is freezing precipation. You would have a control system. The heat wouldn't simply be left on at max for the night of a snowfall - unless that were required. Snowfree electrically conductive asphalt http://217.172.161.215/ktml2/images/...ATALKFINAL.pdf "The up heat time required to reach operating temperature is approximately 2.5 hours based on a power input of 45 watts/f^2 and a starting temperature of 25°F." - Edwin Pawlowski - If the numbers work: Take a driveway that is 10' x 50'. That is 500 square feet times 50 watts per sq.ft. = 25,000 watts. 25,000 watts = 25 kW * .12 per kW hour comes to $3 per hour. In a modest snowfall, it would run about 12 hours or $36. In a larger storm it could easily run 24 to 36 hours here. I'd also have to add at least a 200A service to handle it. - Nehmo - We pay .081 US$/KWH here in Kansas City. 9 feet can accomodate any car. And your using unlikely on times. But your estimated operating cost would be acceptable to many - particularly if the road were critical. -- ********************* * Nehmo Sergheyev * ********************* |
#14
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Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
- Edwin Pawlowski - I wonder how long it would take to get the surface from say, 5 degrees to 33 degrees. - Nehmo - You only need to get the surface of the pavement above freezing while there is freezing precipation. You would have a control system. The heat wouldn't simply be left on at max for the night of a snowfall - unless that were required. From a practical point of view, you need to turn on the heat enough ahead of the time you want the drive cleared, to allow time to heat the concrete and melt any snow or ice. That can be a long time indeed. Since many people want to be able to get out of their drive in the morning, they have the choice of saying up all night or guessing. Frankly if it were cheap and easy to melt snow this way and if the hardware had a long life (if often does not) then you would see it used a lot more than it is. Even in high density commercial areas, you don't see a lot of it being used. Heck if it were cheap, the airports would use it, they can afford it more than most home owners. The fact is it is just not a practical tool for removing snow most places. The exceptions may be sloped drives where someone must be able to inter or exit and they are not physically able to remove the snow using conventionally and can afford both the original expense and operational expense. Failing to warn someone who is considering this choice, is I believe a disservice to them and if done by the salesman it is a dishonest act. Snowfree electrically conductive asphalt http://217.172.161.215/ktml2/images/...ATALKFINAL.pdf "The up heat time required to reach operating temperature is approximately 2.5 hours based on a power input of 45 watts/f^2 and a starting temperature of 25°F." - Edwin Pawlowski - If the numbers work: Take a driveway that is 10' x 50'. That is 500 square feet times 50 watts per sq.ft. = 25,000 watts. 25,000 watts = 25 kW * .12 per kW hour comes to $3 per hour. In a modest snowfall, it would run about 12 hours or $36. In a larger storm it could easily run 24 to 36 hours here. I'd also have to add at least a 200A service to handle it. - Nehmo - We pay .081 US$/KWH here in Kansas City. 9 feet can accomodate any car. And your using unlikely on times. But your estimated operating cost would be acceptable to many - particularly if the road were critical. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#15
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"twfsa" wrote in message If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not have to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the heat.I would think 35 degs would be sufficient. If you use the boiler, you'd have to go to a glycol system or drain the lines when not in use. I don't think that would be the most practical system. |
#16
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Excellent points, especially about the airports. FWIW, the technology
may have improved since, but in the late 70's I worked at a place (central Ohio) that had a very steep drive at a 90 degree angle right off a busy 4 lane highway. They had an electric driveway heater which never worked in the 2 winters I was there. It was a real bitch getting up that drive after a snowfall, especially in the rear wheel drive vehicles of the day. Dan Joseph Meehan wrote: Frankly if it were cheap and easy to melt snow this way and if the hardware had a long life (if often does not) then you would see it used a lot more than it is. Even in high density commercial areas, you don't see a lot of it being used. Heck if it were cheap, the airports would use it, they can afford it more than most home owners. The exceptions may be sloped drives where someone must be able to inter or exit and they are not physically able to remove the snow using conventionally and can afford both the original expense and operational expense. |
#17
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Suzanne Couturiaux wrote: My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Geez, I think I've replied to a number of threads. I'm looking into it as well. Take a look at www.warmzone.com They have an option for retrofitting an existing driveway by cutting notches in it and laying down the heating wire. If you have a very long driveway, they have a couple of pics which show just the tire track area heated. It costs approx 1kwh/100 sq feet of coverage, but it only turns on when it's WET and COLD outside... i.e. snowing. |
#18
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wrote: Suzanne Couturiaux wrote: My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Geez, I think I've replied to a number of threads. I'm looking into it as well. Take a look at www.warmzone.com They have an option for retrofitting an existing driveway by cutting notches in it and laying down the heating wire. If you have a very long driveway, they have a couple of pics which show just the tire track area heated. It costs approx 1kwh/100 sq feet of coverage, but it only turns on when it's WET and COLD outside... i.e. snowing. Sorry, I misquoted the formula: A: The average operational cost for a snow melting system is approximately $0.28 per 100 square feet per hour. This figure is based on a system producing 28 watts/sq.ft. with a kwh rate of $0.10 per hour. If you know the square feet of the area you want to heat, and your kwh rate, you can calculate the operational costs with this formula: heatable sq.ft. times watts/sq.ft.,d ivided by 1000, times your kwh rate. |
#19
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"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:UV8Hd.1413$cx2.530@trndny03... "twfsa" wrote in message If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not have to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the heat.I would think 35 degs would be sufficient. If you use the boiler, you'd have to go to a glycol system or drain the lines when not in use. I don't think that would be the most practical system. I used to go to a church that priced a liquid (glycol?) driveway system when they were going to replace their boiler, as the electrical driveway system was too far over the church budget to ever operate. They decided that, even with members (a cement contractor) removing and replacing the asphalt at the steepest part and replacing with concrete and tubing at cost (no labor) the added expense to the boiler project was just too high. I do not know specifics (and we left that church over the right wing nutballs moving in, so I can't ask)... but I remember very well the discussion surrounding the special unit that would be attached also taking up some of the space of a storage closet right next to the boiler. Considering how much smaller that stuff is today I thought that was notable, but as I said... I really do not know the specifics... just that there is such a critter available somewhere out there but pricey. |
#20
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Dan wrote:
Excellent points, especially about the airports. FWIW, the technology may have improved since, but in the late 70's I worked at a place (central Ohio) that had a very steep drive at a 90 degree angle right off a busy 4 lane highway. They had an electric driveway heater which never worked in the 2 winters I was there. It was a real bitch getting up that drive after a snowfall, especially in the rear wheel drive vehicles of the day. Dan I live in Hilliard Oh and worked in Columbus. The only two systems that worked most of the time that I know about in Columbus was the State House Parking Garage and the walk in front of the Rhodes Tower (State Office Tower). Joseph Meehan wrote: Frankly if it were cheap and easy to melt snow this way and if the hardware had a long life (if often does not) then you would see it used a lot more than it is. Even in high density commercial areas, you don't see a lot of it being used. Heck if it were cheap, the airports would use it, they can afford it more than most home owners. The exceptions may be sloped drives where someone must be able to inter or exit and they are not physically able to remove the snow using conventionally and can afford both the original expense and operational expense. -- Joseph Meehan 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math |
#21
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A waiste of $ , hire a smow removal co, cheaper in the short and long
run |
#22
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Buy the old ******* a snow blower and a supply of sand. Forget the heated
nonsense. Suzanne Couturiaux wrote: My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad). Thanks for any advice you can provide. Suzanne |
#23
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Oh, how I disagree.
There's nothing like sitting inside by the fire watching your neighbors shovel and freeze while your driveway is just wet. No, I don't have one.....so close at one point, though. My old house had a very small driveway and it wouldn't have been bad to do. I ran the numbers and it would have cost less than $5K to install (the right way) and a guesstimate of under $100/year to use. My current house has a 350' driveway and I don't know if Bill Gates could afford to heat that! If I was pouring a driveway I'd probably spend a few extra dollars to plumb it for heat or run a heating wire. Personally I think using liquid would be better than electric because you can use the return fluid to determine if you need more or less heat based on it's temperature. |
#24
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- Nehmo -
One pavement heating arrangement is to circulate ethyleneglycol/water in a closed loop to a water-to-water heat exchanger and to the pavement tubes. In the heat exchanger's other circuit is water that circulates to the standard domestic hot water heater. -- ********************* * Nehmo Sergheyev * ********************* |
#25
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Shrek wrote: Buy the old ******* a snow blower and a supply of sand. Forget the heated nonsense. Why is it nonsense? Is it nonsense to use a dishwasher instead of washing by hand? Why is the luxery of using a snow blower over a shovel valid, where using a heated driveway over a snow blower is nonsense? |
#26
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"Noozer" wrote in message news:IkvHd.125108$8l.67235@pd7tw1no... Oh, how I disagree. There's nothing like sitting inside by the fire watching your neighbors shovel and freeze while your driveway is just wet. No, I don't have one.....so close at one point, though. My old house had a very small driveway and it wouldn't have been bad to do. I ran the numbers and it would have cost less than $5K to install (the right way) and a guesstimate of under $100/year to use. My current house has a 350' driveway and I don't know if Bill Gates could afford to heat that! If I was pouring a driveway I'd probably spend a few extra dollars to plumb it for heat or run a heating wire. Personally I think using liquid would be better than electric because you can use the return fluid to determine if you need more or less heat based on it's temperature. I'm gonna chime in here. We are looking at a new (to us) house. It's about 10 years old and the driveway looks like crap. We're going to offer slightly less than asking price because of the driveway condition. When I get it repoured, it WILL have PEX tubing in it for ice melting purposes. We don't get a lot of snow or ice around here, but at least we'll be able to get out when it does snow or ice. |
#27
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- HeatMan - We are looking at a new (to us) house. It's about 10 years old and the driveway looks like crap. We're going to offer slightly less than asking price because of the driveway condition. When I get it repoured, it WILL have PEX tubing in it for ice melting purposes. We don't get a lot of snow or ice around here, but at least we'll be able to get out when it does snow or ice. - Nehmo - I don't see why not. How much would some PEX (or perhaps Pex-Al-Pex) cost? With some precautions, you can protect the tubing from cracking when the concrete cracks. If you use a heat exchanger (to use with a loop to your regular domestic hot water heater) and a couple of pumps, you really wouldn't need much other equipment. I like the electric systems too. Electricity is more expensive than gas, but, all in all, in terms of costs per season, the price is acceptable. But there must be some kind of image or psychological problem with heating pavement, though. Look at the reaction you get in the NGs when the subject is opened. And hardly anybody seems to have a mature marketing strategy. http://www.warmzone.com/ has the best site, but it seems they can't decide on which system to promote. -- ********************* * Nehmo Sergheyev * ********************* |
#28
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"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message ... - HeatMan - We are looking at a new (to us) house. It's about 10 years old and the driveway looks like crap. We're going to offer slightly less than asking price because of the driveway condition. When I get it repoured, it WILL have PEX tubing in it for ice melting purposes. We don't get a lot of snow or ice around here, but at least we'll be able to get out when it does snow or ice. - Nehmo - I don't see why not. How much would some PEX (or perhaps Pex-Al-Pex) cost? With some precautions, you can protect the tubing from cracking when the concrete cracks. If you use a heat exchanger (to use with a loop to your regular domestic hot water heater) and a couple of pumps, you really wouldn't need much other equipment. It will have a HX when it gets hooked up to the boiler. By the time the snow melt water gets back to the HX, it's going to be near freezing and the boiler won't be able to handle the thermal shock. As far as the new concrete I have poured cracking, I'll protect the concrete with control joints and sleeve the PEX at the joints. I like the electric systems too. Electricity is more expensive than gas, but, all in all, in terms of costs per season, the price is acceptable. Not to me, but I will have a boiler already by the time the new driveway gets poured. But there must be some kind of image or psychological problem with heating pavement, though. Look at the reaction you get in the NGs when the subject is opened. Do I look (or type) like I care? IIRC, there's a city in Colorado(?) that has snowmelt on the city sidewalks clear. And hardly anybody seems to have a mature marketing strategy. http://www.warmzone.com/ has the best site, but it seems they can't decide on which system to promote. I like the water based stuff better than electric. You can repair PEX, but you break a wire, you're out of business. |
#29
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HeatMan wrote:
.... I like the water based stuff better than electric. You can repair PEX, but you break a wire, you're out of business. Not to argue, but I don't really see the difference??? You can repair wire as well and, if it's under the slab, maybe even find the approximate location of the break more easily w/wire than tubing??? |
#30
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here is something you can install on your own if you are handy.
run a pipe of approx 1" diameter from the house plumbing and route it to the driveway. make an indentation into the driveway concrete along the higher point of the driveway but the pipe stick out of the driveway just slightly. along the edge of the exposed pipe, drill small holes so that water can exit out and flow down the driveway. connect it to the hot water line of the house and whenever you need to clear the driveway open the valve and woalla. it wont use nearly as much energy as any of the $$$ systems since it won't need to heat the entire concrete slab. instead it will get under the snow and loosen it so its real easy to push off the driveway or just wait till it completely melts. you could even connect it to the cold water source since even that is warm enough to melt snow. |
#31
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I officially nominate this as the dumbest idea ever thought of.
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#32
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"Matt" wrote:
I officially nominate this as the dumbest idea ever thought of. I'll second your nomination. Posting a comment without including what you are commenting on is the dumbest thing anyone can do on Usenet. Jim |
#33
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Unless you are one of the few rocket scientists on the planet who knows
how to read indented text. How many years have you been brain damaged, Jim? |
#34
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"Matt" wrote in message oups.com... Unless you are one of the few rocket scientists on the planet who knows how to read indented text. How many years have you been brain damaged, Jim? What are you talking about? |
#35
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"artinist" wrote in message along the edge of the exposed pipe, drill small holes so that water can exit out and flow down the driveway. connect it to the hot water line of the house and whenever you need to clear the driveway open the valve and woalla. And just where is all this water going to end up? And then freeze? |
#36
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#37
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"artinist" wrote:
here is something you can install on your own if you are handy. And if you happen to live someplace that doesn't get too cold. run a pipe of approx 1" diameter from the house plumbing and route it to the driveway. make an indentation into the driveway concrete along the higher point of the driveway but the pipe stick out of the driveway just slightly. along the edge of the exposed pipe, drill small holes so that water can exit out and flow down the driveway. connect it to the hot water line of the house and whenever you need to clear the driveway open the valve and woalla. [that's 'voila', BTW] Here in NY that would work fine for an early October snow--- provided you had tons of water, a slightly pitched driveway & great drainage. As soon as there was any frost in the ground it would just create an incredible hazard. I challenge anyone north of, say, Virginia, to give this method a try on a short section of sidewalk. Let us know how much water it takes to clear a few square feet of frozen concrete of 3' of snow. it wont use nearly as much energy as any of the $$$ systems since it won't need to heat the entire concrete slab. instead it will get under the snow and loosen it so its real easy to push off the driveway or just wait till it completely melts. -snip- Are you trolling or do you live somewhere that you've avoided the pleasures of dealing with much snow? Nothing like a little water under a snowfall to 'make it easier to shovel', right? Jim |
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Forget the heated drieway idea. They are not worth the time effort or
expense. I worked on a system in stalled in a sidewalk at a bank(electric) and I worked at acolledge that also had a heated walk way. You can sit here and cost average the the system to death and the one thing that everyone forgets is that melting snow or ice turns into water and water turns back into ice. Can you start to see the picture? Snow or ice accumulates, system turns automaticly or manually , snow and ice melt ,system turns off . walk or drive returns to freezing temp and mlted snow or ice reforms into ice so the system turns back on........... What usually happens is the stupid thing stays on longer than it is off. As far as the bank s system , I never went bac to that job. As far as the colledge they just turned it off and went back to shovels and ice melt. Bill |
#39
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"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... HeatMan wrote: ... I like the water based stuff better than electric. You can repair PEX, but you break a wire, you're out of business. Not to argue, but I don't really see the difference??? You can repair wire as well and, if it's under the slab, maybe even find the approximate location of the break more easily w/wire than tubing??? I have been lead to believe that electric heating cables cannot be repaired. This may have something to do with the heating and hot spots where the repairs are made. Leaking water lines are easy to find under a slab, at least to me. |
#40
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When I took a heating course, years ago, they told us that the regional
transit service in Rochester NY installed a heated parking lot. It isn't needed to keep it warm enough to pitch a tent and sleep out, but warm enough to melt the snow. If memory serves, the instructor said that the heat bill for the parking lot was less than the snow plowing service charged. Seems the snow lands, evaporates, and the vapor floats away. Just what I was remembering. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com "Matt" wrote in message ups.com... I officially nominate this as the dumbest idea ever thought of. |
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