Heated driveway information?
 

My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost
(of installing and operating), and general information about heated
driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and
have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of
shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that
can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here
might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or
point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated
driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

Suzanne Couturiaux wrote:
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway
installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to
gather as much information as possible about the different types of
systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general
information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where
it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that
my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially
interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway).
I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information
about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their
experiences with heated driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

Are you really ready for the cost of heating it? It is really going it
hit your utility bills.

I can't imagine of any good way of adding it to an existing driveway.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

40 years ago the people across from us put in a heated driveway. When they
saw what it did to their utility bill they stopped using it. Unless there
has been one heck of an improvement, it must be even worse today.

Good luck.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Suzanne Couturiaux wrote:
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway
installed, but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to
gather as much information as possible about the different types of
systems, the cost (of installing and operating), and general
information about heated driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where
it's hilly and snowy) and have a short, steep, concrete driveway that
my husband is tired of shoveling every winter. (We're especially
interested in systems that can be installed in an existing driveway).
I was hoping someone here might be able to provide some information
about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and share their
experiences with heated driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

Are you really ready for the cost of heating it? It is really going it
hit your utility bills.

I can't imagine of any good way of adding it to an existing driveway.

For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a
saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like
how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights.

"John Hines" wrote in message
veway.

For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a
saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like
how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights.


I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be like trying to heat the entire
planet as the heat will go down as well as up. I can't imagine the cost.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"John Hines" wrote in message
veway.

For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a
saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like
how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights.


I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be like trying to heat the entire
planet as the heat will go down as well as up. I can't imagine the cost.

Many (well at least some) expensive homes use heating loops in
driveways...since the loop is nearer the top surface than the bottom, it
has less trouble getting to the top surface. I knew a few houses that
had/have them in TN, but I'm sure the cost wasn't a factor for the
homeowners..."if you have to ask about gas mileage, you can't afford
it..." :)

- Suzanne Couturiaux -
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway
installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as
much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost
(of installing and operating), and general information about heated
driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and
have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of
shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that
can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here
might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or
point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated
driveways (good or bad).

- Nehmo -
I've been studying it myself. See the thread, Roads, Heated Needed
http://snipurl.com/c351 .

There are several systems, but none lend themselves easily to a
retrofit. Electric cost is less than what you would expect. One estimate
has an average at US$ .80/square meter per snowstorm. My own figures
conservatively come to 4 cents per linear lane foot per hour of use.
You'll need about 50 watts per square foot. Also, of course, you'll have
the initial capital cost.

If you insist on a retrofit, a possible less-elegant solution is a
deicing spray system.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"John Hines" wrote in message
veway.

For a concrete drive, I would think that one could cut grooves with a
saw, insert heating wires, and seal up with sealer. This would be like
how they put sensor wires in for traffic lights.


I'm sure it can be done, but it would also be like trying to heat the entire
planet as the heat will go down as well as up. I can't imagine the cost.

Yeah. I'm thinking of doing a ramp to replace the steps to the back
door, and that I would have to do something like that for it to be
usable in the winter.

What method do you use to heat your home?

Are you going to replace the entire driveway or retro fit the old slab for
heat. It would be more cost effective to replace the drive if its short,
and pour the concrete to at least 6" thick.

If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the
driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that
would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not have
to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the heat.I
would think 35 degs would be sufficient.

I think you could shut the manifold valve off when the weather is not
calling for snow and not heat the slab.

Electric heat would be too expensive, what about just hiring some one to
shovel for you?

Tom


"Suzanne Couturiaux" wrote in message
...
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of
installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways.
We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short,
steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every
winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in
an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide
some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and
share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

If you are concerned about the cost, don't bother getting one (they
are very expensive to operate). However, there are alternatives.
Park on the street, hire/contract someone to clear your driveway or
move to a warmer climate.


On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:45:54 -0500, Suzanne Couturiaux
wrote:

My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost
(of installing and operating), and general information about heated
driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and
have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of
shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that
can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here
might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or
point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated
driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

I have heard of home heating schemes which gather a bit of "free" heat
using a long length of pipe run back & forth through the ground below
frost level to raise water pumped through it to 50 some degrees. I
wonder if this might then be circulated through the driveway, perhaps
with a bit of supplemental heating. Seems like if you ran it prior to a
possible snow, you could warm the drive enough to prevent frozen
accumulation, easier than melting it once it's there.

Dan



twfsa wrote:

What method do you use to heat your home?

Are you going to replace the entire driveway or retro fit the old slab for
heat. It would be more cost effective to replace the drive if its short,
and pour the concrete to at least 6" thick.

If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the
driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that
would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not have
to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the heat.I
would think 35 degs would be sufficient.

I think you could shut the manifold valve off when the weather is not
calling for snow and not heat the slab.

Electric heat would be too expensive, what about just hiring some one to
shovel for you?

Tom


"Suzanne Couturiaux" wrote in message
...

My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost (of
installing and operating), and general information about heated driveways.
We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and have a short,
steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of shoveling every
winter. (We're especially interested in systems that can be installed in
an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here might be able to provide
some information about heated driveways or point me to other sites, and
share their experiences with heated driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
There are several systems, but none lend themselves easily to a
retrofit. Electric cost is less than what you would expect. One estimate
has an average at US$ .80/square meter per snowstorm. My own figures
conservatively come to 4 cents per linear lane foot per hour of use.
You'll need about 50 watts per square foot. Also, of course, you'll have
the initial capital cost.

I wonder how long it would take to get the surface from say, 5 degrees to 33
degrees.

If the numbers work:
Take a driveway that is 10' x 50'. That is 500 square feet times 50 watts
per sq.ft. = 25,000 watts.
25,000 watts = 25 kW * .12 per kW hour comes to $3 per hour. In a modest
snowfall, it would run about 12 hours or $36. In a larger storm it could
easily run 24 to 36 hours here. I'd also have to add at least a 200A
service to handle it.

- Edwin Pawlowski -
I wonder how long it would take to get the surface from say, 5 degrees
to 33
degrees.

- Nehmo -
You only need to get the surface of the pavement above freezing while
there is freezing precipation. You would have a control system. The heat
wouldn't simply be left on at max for the night of a snowfall - unless
that were required.

Snowfree electrically conductive asphalt
http://217.172.161.215/ktml2/images/...ATALKFINAL.pdf
"The up heat time required to reach operating temperature is
approximately 2.5 hours based on a power input of 45 watts/f^2 and a
starting temperature of 25°F."

- Edwin Pawlowski -
If the numbers work:
Take a driveway that is 10' x 50'. That is 500 square feet times 50
watts
per sq.ft. = 25,000 watts.
25,000 watts = 25 kW * .12 per kW hour comes to $3 per hour. In a
modest
snowfall, it would run about 12 hours or $36. In a larger storm it
could
easily run 24 to 36 hours here. I'd also have to add at least a 200A
service to handle it.

- Nehmo -
We pay .081 US$/KWH here in Kansas City. 9 feet can accomodate any car.
And your using unlikely on times. But your estimated operating cost
would be acceptable to many - particularly if the road were critical.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
- Edwin Pawlowski -
I wonder how long it would take to get the surface from say, 5
degrees to 33 degrees.

- Nehmo -
You only need to get the surface of the pavement above freezing while
there is freezing precipation. You would have a control system. The
heat wouldn't simply be left on at max for the night of a snowfall -
unless that were required.

From a practical point of view, you need to turn on the heat enough
ahead of the time you want the drive cleared, to allow time to heat the
concrete and melt any snow or ice. That can be a long time indeed. Since
many people want to be able to get out of their drive in the morning, they
have the choice of saying up all night or guessing.

Frankly if it were cheap and easy to melt snow this way and if the
hardware had a long life (if often does not) then you would see it used a
lot more than it is. Even in high density commercial areas, you don't see a
lot of it being used. Heck if it were cheap, the airports would use it,
they can afford it more than most home owners.

The fact is it is just not a practical tool for removing snow most
places.

The exceptions may be sloped drives where someone must be able to inter
or exit and they are not physically able to remove the snow using
conventionally and can afford both the original expense and operational
expense.

Failing to warn someone who is considering this choice, is I believe a
disservice to them and if done by the salesman it is a dishonest act.


Snowfree electrically conductive asphalt
http://217.172.161.215/ktml2/images/...ATALKFINAL.pdf
"The up heat time required to reach operating temperature is
approximately 2.5 hours based on a power input of 45 watts/f^2 and a
starting temperature of 25°F."

- Edwin Pawlowski -
If the numbers work:
Take a driveway that is 10' x 50'. That is 500 square feet times 50
watts per sq.ft. = 25,000 watts.
25,000 watts = 25 kW * .12 per kW hour comes to $3 per hour. In a
modest snowfall, it would run about 12 hours or $36. In a larger
storm it could easily run 24 to 36 hours here. I'd also have to
add at least a 200A service to handle it.

- Nehmo -
We pay .081 US$/KWH here in Kansas City. 9 feet can accomodate any
car. And your using unlikely on times. But your estimated operating
cost would be acceptable to many - particularly if the road were
critical.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"twfsa" wrote in message

If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace the
driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that
would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not
have to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the
heat.I would think 35 degs would be sufficient.

If you use the boiler, you'd have to go to a glycol system or drain the
lines when not in use. I don't think that would be the most practical
system.

Excellent points, especially about the airports. FWIW, the technology
may have improved since, but in the late 70's I worked at a place
(central Ohio) that had a very steep drive at a 90 degree angle right
off a busy 4 lane highway. They had an electric driveway heater which
never worked in the 2 winters I was there. It was a real bitch getting
up that drive after a snowfall, especially in the rear wheel drive
vehicles of the day.

Dan

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Frankly if it were cheap and easy to melt snow this way and if the
hardware had a long life (if often does not) then you would see it used a
lot more than it is. Even in high density commercial areas, you don't see a
lot of it being used. Heck if it were cheap, the airports would use it,
they can afford it more than most home owners.

The exceptions may be sloped drives where someone must be able to inter
or exit and they are not physically able to remove the snow using
conventionally and can afford both the original expense and operational
expense.

Suzanne Couturiaux wrote:
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway
installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as
much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the
cost
(of installing and operating), and general information about heated
driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy)
and
have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of
shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that

can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here
might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or
point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated
driveways (good or bad).

Geez, I think I've replied to a number of threads. I'm looking into it
as well. Take a look at

www.warmzone.com

They have an option for retrofitting an existing driveway by cutting
notches in it and laying down the heating wire. If you have a very
long driveway, they have a couple of pics which show just the tire
track area heated.

It costs approx 1kwh/100 sq feet of coverage, but it only turns on when
it's WET and COLD outside... i.e. snowing.

wrote:
Suzanne Couturiaux wrote:
My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway
installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as
much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the
cost
(of installing and operating), and general information about heated
driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy)
and
have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of
shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems
that

can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone
here
might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or
point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated
driveways (good or bad).

Geez, I think I've replied to a number of threads. I'm looking into
it
as well. Take a look at

www.warmzone.com

They have an option for retrofitting an existing driveway by cutting
notches in it and laying down the heating wire. If you have a very
long driveway, they have a couple of pics which show just the tire
track area heated.

It costs approx 1kwh/100 sq feet of coverage, but it only turns on
when
it's WET and COLD outside... i.e. snowing.

Sorry, I misquoted the formula:

A: The average operational cost for a snow melting system is
approximately $0.28 per 100 square feet per hour. This figure is based
on a system producing 28 watts/sq.ft. with a kwh rate of $0.10 per
hour. If you know the square feet of the area you want to heat, and
your kwh rate, you can calculate the operational costs with this
formula: heatable sq.ft. times watts/sq.ft.,d ivided by 1000, times
your kwh rate.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:UV8Hd.1413$cx2.530@trndny03...

"twfsa" wrote in message

If you are using a boiler to heat your home, and are going to replace
the
driveway a manifold type control to limit the amount of warm water that
would be circulated thru the driveway seems the way to go, it does not
have to be heated to 70degs, once warmed the concrete should hold the
heat.I would think 35 degs would be sufficient.

If you use the boiler, you'd have to go to a glycol system or drain the
lines when not in use. I don't think that would be the most practical
system.



I used to go to a church that priced a liquid (glycol?) driveway system when
they were going to replace their boiler, as the electrical driveway system
was too far over the church budget to ever operate. They decided that, even
with members (a cement contractor) removing and replacing the asphalt at the
steepest part and replacing with concrete and tubing at cost (no labor) the
added expense to the boiler project was just too high.

I do not know specifics (and we left that church over the right wing
nutballs moving in, so I can't ask)... but I remember very well the
discussion surrounding the special unit that would be attached also taking
up some of the space of a storage closet right next to the boiler.
Considering how much smaller that stuff is today I thought that was notable,
but as I said... I really do not know the specifics... just that there is
such a critter available somewhere out there but pricey.

Dan wrote:
Excellent points, especially about the airports. FWIW, the technology
may have improved since, but in the late 70's I worked at a place
(central Ohio) that had a very steep drive at a 90 degree angle right
off a busy 4 lane highway. They had an electric driveway heater which
never worked in the 2 winters I was there. It was a real bitch
getting up that drive after a snowfall, especially in the rear wheel
drive vehicles of the day.

Dan

I live in Hilliard Oh and worked in Columbus. The only two systems that
worked most of the time that I know about in Columbus was the State House
Parking Garage and the walk in front of the Rhodes Tower (State Office
Tower).



Joseph Meehan wrote:
Frankly if it were cheap and easy to melt snow this way and if
the hardware had a long life (if often does not) then you would see
it used a lot more than it is. Even in high density commercial
areas, you don't see a lot of it being used. Heck if it were cheap,
the airports would use it, they can afford it more than most home
owners.

The exceptions may be sloped drives where someone must be able
to inter or exit and they are not physically able to remove the snow
using conventionally and can afford both the original expense and
operational expense.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

A waiste of $ , hire a smow removal co, cheaper in the short and long
run

Buy the old ******* a snow blower and a supply of sand. Forget the heated
nonsense.

Suzanne Couturiaux wrote:

My husband and I are thinking about having a heated driveway installed,
but before we start calling contractors, we're trying to gather as much
information as possible about the different types of systems, the cost
(of installing and operating), and general information about heated
driveways. We live in Pittsburgh, Pa. (where it's hilly and snowy) and
have a short, steep, concrete driveway that my husband is tired of
shoveling every winter. (We're especially interested in systems that
can be installed in an existing driveway). I was hoping someone here
might be able to provide some information about heated driveways or
point me to other sites, and share their experiences with heated
driveways (good or bad).

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

Suzanne

Oh, how I disagree.

There's nothing like sitting inside by the fire watching your neighbors
shovel
and freeze while your driveway is just wet.

No, I don't have one.....so close at one point, though. My old house had
a
very small driveway and it wouldn't have been bad to do. I ran the
numbers
and it would have cost less than $5K to install (the right way) and a
guesstimate of under $100/year to use. My current house has a 350'
driveway
and I don't know if Bill Gates could afford to heat that! ;)

If I was pouring a driveway I'd probably spend a few extra dollars to plumb
it for heat or run a heating wire.

Personally I think using liquid would be better than electric because you
can use the return fluid to determine if you need more or less heat based on
it's temperature.

- Nehmo -
One pavement heating arrangement is to circulate ethyleneglycol/water
in a closed loop to a water-to-water heat exchanger and to the pavement
tubes. In the heat exchanger's other circuit is water that circulates
to the standard domestic hot water heater.
--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

Shrek wrote:
Buy the old ******* a snow blower and a supply of sand. Forget the
heated
nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? Is it nonsense to use a dishwasher instead of
washing by hand?

Why is the luxery of using a snow blower over a shovel valid, where
using a heated driveway over a snow blower is nonsense?

"Noozer" wrote in message
news:IkvHd.125108$8l.67235@pd7tw1no...
Oh, how I disagree.

There's nothing like sitting inside by the fire watching your neighbors
shovel
and freeze while your driveway is just wet.

No, I don't have one.....so close at one point, though. My old house
had
a
very small driveway and it wouldn't have been bad to do. I ran the
numbers
and it would have cost less than $5K to install (the right way) and a
guesstimate of under $100/year to use. My current house has a 350'
driveway
and I don't know if Bill Gates could afford to heat that! ;)

If I was pouring a driveway I'd probably spend a few extra dollars to
plumb
it for heat or run a heating wire.

Personally I think using liquid would be better than electric because you
can use the return fluid to determine if you need more or less heat based
on
it's temperature.



I'm gonna chime in here.

We are looking at a new (to us) house. It's about 10 years old and the
driveway looks like crap. We're going to offer slightly less than asking
price because of the driveway condition. When I get it repoured, it WILL
have PEX tubing in it for ice melting purposes. We don't get a lot of snow
or ice around here, but at least we'll be able to get out when it does snow
or ice.

- HeatMan -
We are looking at a new (to us) house. It's about 10 years old and
the
driveway looks like crap. We're going to offer slightly less than
asking
price because of the driveway condition. When I get it repoured, it
WILL
have PEX tubing in it for ice melting purposes. We don't get a lot of
snow
or ice around here, but at least we'll be able to get out when it does
snow
or ice.

- Nehmo -
I don't see why not. How much would some PEX (or perhaps Pex-Al-Pex)
cost? With some precautions, you can protect the tubing from cracking
when the concrete cracks. If you use a heat exchanger (to use with a
loop to your regular domestic hot water heater) and a couple of pumps,
you really wouldn't need much other equipment.

I like the electric systems too. Electricity is more expensive than gas,
but, all in all, in terms of costs per season, the price is acceptable.

But there must be some kind of image or psychological problem with
heating pavement, though. Look at the reaction you get in the NGs when
the subject is opened. And hardly anybody seems to have a mature
marketing strategy. http://www.warmzone.com/ has the best site, but it
seems they can't decide on which system to promote.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

"Nehmo Sergheyev" wrote in message
...

- HeatMan -
We are looking at a new (to us) house. It's about 10 years old and
the
driveway looks like crap. We're going to offer slightly less than
asking
price because of the driveway condition. When I get it repoured, it
WILL
have PEX tubing in it for ice melting purposes. We don't get a lot of
snow
or ice around here, but at least we'll be able to get out when it does
snow
or ice.

- Nehmo -
I don't see why not. How much would some PEX (or perhaps Pex-Al-Pex)
cost? With some precautions, you can protect the tubing from cracking
when the concrete cracks. If you use a heat exchanger (to use with a
loop to your regular domestic hot water heater) and a couple of pumps,
you really wouldn't need much other equipment.


It will have a HX when it gets hooked up to the boiler. By the time the
snow melt water gets back to the HX, it's going to be near freezing and the
boiler won't be able to handle the thermal shock.

As far as the new concrete I have poured cracking, I'll protect the concrete
with control joints and sleeve the PEX at the joints.

I like the electric systems too. Electricity is more expensive than gas,
but, all in all, in terms of costs per season, the price is acceptable.


Not to me, but I will have a boiler already by the time the new driveway
gets poured.

But there must be some kind of image or psychological problem with
heating pavement, though. Look at the reaction you get in the NGs when
the subject is opened.

Do I look (or type) like I care? IIRC, there's a city in Colorado(?) that
has snowmelt on the city sidewalks clear.

And hardly anybody seems to have a mature
marketing strategy. http://www.warmzone.com/ has the best site, but it
seems they can't decide on which system to promote.


I like the water based stuff better than electric. You can repair PEX, but
you break a wire, you're out of business.

HeatMan wrote:
....
I like the water based stuff better than electric. You can repair PEX, but
you break a wire, you're out of business.

Not to argue, but I don't really see the difference??? You can repair
wire as well and, if it's under the slab, maybe even find the
approximate location of the break more easily w/wire than tubing???

here is something you can install on your own if you are handy.

run a pipe of approx 1" diameter from the house plumbing and route it
to the driveway.

make an indentation into the driveway concrete along the higher point
of the driveway but the pipe stick out of the driveway just slightly.

along the edge of the exposed pipe, drill small holes so that water can
exit out and flow down the driveway.

connect it to the hot water line of the house and whenever you need to
clear the driveway open the valve and woalla.

it wont use nearly as much energy as any of the $$$ systems since it
won't need to heat the entire concrete slab. instead it will get under
the snow and loosen it so its real easy to push off the driveway or
just wait till it completely melts.

you could even connect it to the cold water source since even that is
warm enough to melt snow.

I officially nominate this as the dumbest idea ever thought of.

"Matt" wrote:

I officially nominate this as the dumbest idea ever thought of.

I'll second your nomination. Posting a comment without including what
you are commenting on is the dumbest thing anyone can do on Usenet.

Jim

Unless you are one of the few rocket scientists on the planet who knows
how to read indented text.
How many years have you been brain damaged, Jim?

"Matt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Unless you are one of the few rocket scientists on the planet who knows
how to read indented text.
How many years have you been brain damaged, Jim?

What are you talking about?

"artinist" wrote in message

along the edge of the exposed pipe, drill small holes so that water can
exit out and flow down the driveway.

connect it to the hot water line of the house and whenever you need to
clear the driveway open the valve and woalla.

And just where is all this water going to end up? And then freeze?

wrote:
Shrek wrote:
Buy the old ******* a snow blower and a supply of sand. Forget the
heated
nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? Is it nonsense to use a dishwasher instead of
washing by hand?

Why is the luxery of using a snow blower over a shovel valid, where
using a heated driveway over a snow blower is nonsense?
Sorry, "luxury"... before I get flamed for a typo.

"artinist" wrote:

here is something you can install on your own if you are handy.


And if you happen to live someplace that doesn't get too cold.

run a pipe of approx 1" diameter from the house plumbing and route it
to the driveway.

make an indentation into the driveway concrete along the higher point
of the driveway but the pipe stick out of the driveway just slightly.

along the edge of the exposed pipe, drill small holes so that water can
exit out and flow down the driveway.

connect it to the hot water line of the house and whenever you need to
clear the driveway open the valve and woalla.


[that's 'voila', BTW]

Here in NY that would work fine for an early October snow--- provided
you had tons of water, a slightly pitched driveway & great drainage.

As soon as there was any frost in the ground it would just create an
incredible hazard.

I challenge anyone north of, say, Virginia, to give this method a try
on a short section of sidewalk.

Let us know how much water it takes to clear a few square feet of
frozen concrete of 3' of snow.

it wont use nearly as much energy as any of the $$$ systems since it
won't need to heat the entire concrete slab. instead it will get under
the snow and loosen it so its real easy to push off the driveway or
just wait till it completely melts.
-snip-

Are you trolling or do you live somewhere that you've avoided the
pleasures of dealing with much snow? Nothing like a little water
under a snowfall to 'make it easier to shovel', right?

Jim

Forget the heated drieway idea. They are not worth the time effort or
expense.
I worked on a system in stalled in a sidewalk at a bank(electric) and I
worked at acolledge that also had a heated walk way.
You can sit here and cost average the the system to death and the one
thing that everyone forgets is that melting snow or ice turns into water
and water turns back into ice. Can you start to see the picture?
Snow or ice accumulates, system turns automaticly or manually , snow
and ice melt ,system turns off . walk or drive returns to freezing temp
and mlted snow or ice reforms into ice so the system turns back
on........... What usually happens is the stupid thing stays on longer
than it is off.
As far as the bank s system , I never went bac to that job. As far as
the colledge they just turned it off and went back to shovels and ice
melt.

Bill

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
HeatMan wrote:
...
I like the water based stuff better than electric. You can repair PEX,
but
you break a wire, you're out of business.

Not to argue, but I don't really see the difference??? You can repair
wire as well and, if it's under the slab, maybe even find the
approximate location of the break more easily w/wire than tubing???

I have been lead to believe that electric heating cables cannot be repaired.
This may have something to do with the heating and hot spots where the
repairs are made.

Leaking water lines are easy to find under a slab, at least to me.

When I took a heating course, years ago, they told us that the regional
transit service in Rochester NY installed a heated parking lot. It isn't
needed to keep it warm enough to pitch a tent and sleep out, but warm enough
to melt the snow. If memory serves, the instructor said that the heat bill
for the parking lot was less than the snow plowing service charged. Seems
the snow lands, evaporates, and the vapor floats away.

Just what I was remembering.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Matt" wrote in message
ups.com...
I officially nominate this as the dumbest idea ever thought of.