I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls (where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I had to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early spring to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be driving
on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:05:02 GMT, "Hamilton Audio"
wrote:

I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls (where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I had to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early spring to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be driving

Don't think these cables are ment to be driven over. So can be very,
very dangerous.

on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney



Some options for deicing/desnowing: http://www.urlbee.com?498

Never thought about the heat lamps...

later,

tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com

Hamilton Audio wrote:
I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down
and towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on
either side where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt
snow/ice at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the
driveway as gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the
retaining walls (where the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day)
it re-freezes.
sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I
had to use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the
early spring to keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across
the area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to
be driving on these wires?

No, you will damage the wires. They don't expect cars to drove over
them on the roof. :-)

I know they dont' get "hot" per se,
barely warm I know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on
them?? are there any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Hamilton Audio wrote:
I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls (where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I had to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early spring to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be driving
on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney




You might try scraping off the snow down to translucent ice, and shining
a 250W heat lamp (or 2) on it. That might heat the concrete up enough
underneath the ice that you can chip it loose with a heavy ice scraper.

I was gonna try that with my driveway (we had 1/2" of freezing rain last
week), but it was warm enough today, and a *little* sunshine, that I was
able to chop most of it loose pretty easy.

Best regards,
Bob

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 16:27:52 -0500,
wrote:
I would think they would not hold up to driving on either. I'd use a
GFI outlet to protect yourself if you do use them. I do not know of
any permanent solution other than tearing up the driveway and
installing heating coils under the pavement. Otherwise, buy lots of
sand/salt or chemical deicer.

I did the chemical de-icer last year and it helped....but did irreversible
damage to the concrete trough drain in front of the garage pad....basically
destroyed it. it needed redo-ing, and was a great excuse. but now that its
fresh concrete ($500 and a full days work later) I don't want to again for a
long time! so the salt is out of the question.

the element of removing it once its created isnt really a problem. my air
chisel hitting on the right angle peels it up reasonably well. but its
painful crappy work i'd rather not do.

the previous owner left me a long length of pre-terminated single strand
heating cable that is used to leave in the trough drain to keep it flowing
during the several weeks of spring where freeze-thaw cycles cause it to
build up ice and block up. it works pretty well....I wonder if I could get
some of this to drive over?

i wonder if I could rig up a permanent (but flexible) structure to tie the
roof de-icing cables to in a good pattern that I could lay on the ice during
the day...just move the structure/wires before entering the garage at nite.
seems to me the little bit of pain in the a$$ this incurs up front will
limit the need for really painful ice chipping later....anybody have any
wicked thoughts on a foldable or collapsible structure i could tie the wires
to in a grid pattern? I was thinking a piece of heavier gauge hardware
cloth? just roll it up after...since all the wires will be tie-wrapped to
it solidly....

bmoney

I put a drain at the low point of my driveway.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 23:43:15 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Hamilton Audio wrote:
I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down
and towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on
either side where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt
snow/ice at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the
driveway as gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the
retaining walls (where the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day)
it re-freezes.
sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I
had to use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the
early spring to keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across
the area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to
be driving on these wires?

No, you will damage the wires. They don't expect cars to drove over
them on the roof. :-)

But ar rated for sleigh and deer traffic. :-p


I know they dont' get "hot" per se,
barely warm I know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on
them?? are there any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

later,

tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com

I would put a drain or at least a holding basin where the water
collects. That means you may need to cut a piece of the driveway out.
I doubt the deicing wires will provide enough power, unless the area
is small.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:05:02 GMT, "Hamilton Audio"
wrote:

I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls (where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I had to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early spring to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be driving
on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

apparently I wasn't clear - I do have an extremely effective trough drain
right in front of the garage pad, and it works wonders.

the problem is that the driveway dips below grade (towards the house). this
means that snow/ice melting in the sun at the top of the driveway runs down
the driveway and by the time it gets to the bottom, its below grade and away
from the sun entirely - so it re-freezes. VERY MUCH like an ice dam on a
roof. The water just spills over itself and in time an ice flow of a few
inches thick develops.

there has got to be some sort of heated wire solution for this....I'll just
keep looking.

b
"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
I would put a drain or at least a holding basin where the water
collects. That means you may need to cut a piece of the driveway out.
I doubt the deicing wires will provide enough power, unless the area
is small.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:05:02 GMT, "Hamilton Audio"
wrote:

I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt
snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls (where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I had
to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early spring
to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be driving
on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

Wonder if you can have a plumber rig a drain on the sunny section of the
driveway? So the water drains at a warm spot, instead of trying to flow down
to a cold spot?

--

Christopher A. Young
This space intentionally left blank
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Hamilton Audio" wrote in message
news:ErGEd.46103$Xk.42899@pd7tw3no...
apparently I wasn't clear - I do have an extremely effective trough drain
right in front of the garage pad, and it works wonders.

the problem is that the driveway dips below grade (towards the house). this
means that snow/ice melting in the sun at the top of the driveway runs down
the driveway and by the time it gets to the bottom, its below grade and away
from the sun entirely - so it re-freezes. VERY MUCH like an ice dam on a
roof. The water just spills over itself and in time an ice flow of a few
inches thick develops.

there has got to be some sort of heated wire solution for this....I'll just
keep looking.

b
"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
I would put a drain or at least a holding basin where the water
collects. That means you may need to cut a piece of the driveway out.
I doubt the deicing wires will provide enough power, unless the area
is small.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:05:02 GMT, "Hamilton Audio"
wrote:

I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt
snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls (where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway. I had
to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early spring
to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be driving
on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

Hamilton Audio wrote:
apparently I wasn't clear - I do have an extremely effective trough
drain
right in front of the garage pad, and it works wonders.

the problem is that the driveway dips below grade (towards the
house). this
means that snow/ice melting in the sun at the top of the driveway
runs down
the driveway and by the time it gets to the bottom, its below grade
and away
from the sun entirely - so it re-freezes. VERY MUCH like an ice dam
on a
roof. The water just spills over itself and in time an ice flow of a
few
inches thick develops.

there has got to be some sort of heated wire solution for
this....I'll just
keep looking.

b
"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
I would put a drain or at least a holding basin where the water
collects. That means you may need to cut a piece of the driveway
out.
I doubt the deicing wires will provide enough power, unless the
area
is small.

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:05:02 GMT, "Hamilton Audio"
wrote:

I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down
and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on
either side
where the driveway goes below grade.

In the springtime, as the temps get warm enough to let the sun melt

snow/ice
at the top of the driveway and the grass, it runs down the driveway
as
gravity would have it do....but as it gets past the retaining walls
(where
the sun cannot get to, at any time of the day) it re-freezes.

sort of like an ice dam on a roof, but at the base of my driveway.
I had
to
use an air-chisel and break away large pieces of ice in the early
spring
to
keep it clear....

I am thinking about laying down a set of roof de-icing cables
across the
area to keep it thawed permanently. any thoughts? is it ok to be
driving
on these wires? I know they dont' get "hot" per se, barely warm I
know...but will I be doing damage to them by driving on them?? are
there
any more appropriate products for such a task?

bmoney

Some random thoughts:

Might it be possible to shade the top part of the driveway so it
doesn't melt?The situation is analogous to ice dams on the roof, where
the solution is to insulate the attic floor so the snow doesn't melt
and run down.

How about cutting grooves in the drive so the mel****er is channeled to
the sides and along gutters into the drain?

Instead of salt or granular ice melters, how about a liquid such as
they use at airports? Windshield washer antifreeze is perhaps a handy
equivalent. I'm thinking of some kind of automated mechanism that
sprays bursts over the area at intervals.

Hardware stores sell propane-powered firesticks for melting snow (and
killing weeds). I would not for a second entertain the notion of an
unattended gizmo built around such a thing, but it's probably the
handiest way to melt the ice once it's there.

I like the idea of heatlamps, as has already been mentioned. This would
simulate sunshine all the way down the driveway. Probably most
effective if you pre-warmed the dark driveway before the snow and ice
covered it. Propane-fired torchieres such as for patios would probably
work well if you had space for one.

I think I'd be saving my pennies for a buried heater system.
Chip C
Toronto

Hamilton Audio wrote:
I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down
and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either
side
where the driveway goes below grade.

Just looked into this:

http://www.warmzone.com/SnowMelting/snowmelting.asp
They can retrofit your existing driveway to melt snow/ice.

On 12 Jan 2005 05:51:41 -0800, wrote:


Hamilton Audio wrote:
I've got a montreal-style bilevel home where the driveway runs down
and
towards the house at a good slope. I have retaining walls on either
side
where the driveway goes below grade.

Just looked into this:

http://www.warmzone.com/SnowMelting/snowmelting.asp
They can retrofit your existing driveway to melt snow/ice.


Wow! Even roof deicer too.

later,

tom @ www.CarFleaMarket.com