I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)

Bod wrote

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I
assume surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab.
The UK does none of this now.

No wipe of the area before the injection ?

I had a tetanus booster a year or so ago,
cant remember if the area was wiped or not.

Think it was before the local before some minor skin
cancer surgery tho. But that was likely for the surgery.

None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection
area for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no
visible blood.

Cant say I have ever had that. I have after a blood sample tho.

(Just an observation)

A likely story.

On Tue, 18 May 2021 19:24:07 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Bod wrote

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I
assume surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab.
The UK does none of this now.

No wipe of the area before the injection ?

That's what he said, senile trolling Australian asshole!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body. I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD. Was
a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear it up:
one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and one of
steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.

On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after
the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.Â* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.Â* Was
a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear it up:
one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and one of
steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.

Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

On Tue, 18 May 2021 07:49:26 -0400, Frank wrote:

On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)

I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body. I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD. Was
a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear it up:
one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and one of
steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.

Researches found already quite some time ago that desinfecting skin before
an injection with a clean needle would not be necessary at all (and even is
said to have some disadvantages, I forgot which) as the skin provides all
necessary protection against the usual bacteria (which is the reason why
minor cuts hardly ever seem to produce any side effects).

On Tue, 18 May 2021 14:41:35 +0200, Peeler
wrote:

On Tue, 18 May 2021 07:49:26 -0400, Frank wrote:

On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)

I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body. I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD. Was
a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear it up:
one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and one of
steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.

Researches found already quite some time ago that desinfecting skin before
an injection with a clean needle would not be necessary at all (and even is
said to have some disadvantages, I forgot which) as the skin provides all
necessary protection against the usual bacteria (which is the reason why
minor cuts hardly ever seem to produce any side effects).


The whole of the Canadian health care system needs to catch up
- with YOUR expert advice ... :-)
I've never had a needle where the injection site isn't first wiped
with a little alcohol prep pad. except dental work
That said - I still strongly question the famous " empty needle "
video where the "nurse" wipes the injection site AFTER the
injection - with the same contaminated prep pad ... bad form
in my inexpert opinion ...
John T.

On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:58:54 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 18 May 2021 14:41:35 +0200, Peeler
wrote:

On Tue, 18 May 2021 07:49:26 -0400, Frank wrote:

On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)

I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body. I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD. Was
a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear it up:
one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and one of
steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.

Researches found already quite some time ago that desinfecting skin before
an injection with a clean needle would not be necessary at all (and even is
said to have some disadvantages, I forgot which) as the skin provides all
necessary protection against the usual bacteria (which is the reason why
minor cuts hardly ever seem to produce any side effects).

The whole of the Canadian health care system needs to catch up
- with YOUR expert advice ... :-)

It's not "MY" expert advice. They mentioned it on a TV documentary, already
years ago.

In article ,
says...

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)




I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle. Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

On 18/05/2021 15:06, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)




I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle. Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.

On 18/05/2021 15:13, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 15:06, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the
jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)




I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle.Â* Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.

Found some data that backs up:

At present, based on the available evidence base, the World Health
Organization (WHO) and the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) do not
recommend the use of alcohol swabs before vaccine injections.

In article ,
says...
I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle. Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.



Don't know if true or not, but did read that if the shot is given right
a way after the wipe it may hirt more than if waiting a few seconds for
the alcohol do evaporate.

Just as with many things it may just be a feel good thing. I understand
that women were shaved between the legs before giving birth at one time
but that practice was stopped a good number of years ago.

On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after
the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.Â* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.
Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear
it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and
one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.

Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as much
of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542

It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.

On 18/05/2021 15:32, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle. Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.



Don't know if true or not, but did read that if the shot is given right
a way after the wipe it may hirt more than if waiting a few seconds for
the alcohol do evaporate.

Just as with many things it may just be a feel good thing. I understand
that women were shaved between the legs before giving birth at one time
but that practice was stopped a good number of years ago.

Oh, ok.

On 18/05/2021 15:43, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms
after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.Â* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.
Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear
it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and
one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.
Â*
Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as much
of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542

It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.

Thanks, Frank, that was interesting.

On 5/18/2021 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms
after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.
Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to clear
it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of antibiotic and
one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.
*
Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as much
of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542

It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.


A quick swipe with an alcohol swab will not sterilize the skin.
Otherwise, surgeons would just swab their hands for a second before
putting on gloves and prepare the operative incision site the same way.
Thorough cleaning with a much stronger agent is required, both of
hands and incisional site to minimize the risk of contamination.
Additionally, if not allowed to air dry after swabbing, residual liquid
alcohol on the skin will be dragged into the puncture wound made by the
needle, causing unnecessary pain and possibly even possibly inactivating
the drug or vaccine being injected. Theoretically, you can even float
some skin bacteria from the perimeter of the swab site into the small
pool of residual liquid alcohol and increase the risk of injection site
infection unless all the alcohol is allowed to air dry. Intact skin on
the upper, outer arm, or on midthigh is relatively clean and a simple
swipe with clean water on a small clean pad or cotton swab and a pat dry
with a small absorbent sterile pad will be just as effective at
preventing injection site infection as using a typical alcohol swipe.
However, patients expect the smell and sting of the alcohol swab and old
habits often die hard even in the face of good data.

On 18/05/2021 16:18, Retirednoguilt wrote:
On 5/18/2021 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms
after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible
blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.
Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to
clear it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of
antibiotic and one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if it
happened with skin injection the infected could just take antibiotic
orally.
*
Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as
much of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542

It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.


A quick swipe with an alcohol swab will not sterilize the skin.
Otherwise, surgeons would just swab their hands for a second before
putting on gloves and prepare the operative incision site the same way.
*Thorough cleaning with a much stronger agent is required, both of
hands and incisional site to minimize the risk of contamination.
Additionally, if not allowed to air dry after swabbing, residual liquid
alcohol on the skin will be dragged into the puncture wound made by the
needle, causing unnecessary pain and possibly even possibly inactivating
the drug or vaccine being injected.* Theoretically, you can even float
some skin bacteria from the perimeter of the swab site into the small
pool of residual liquid alcohol and increase the risk of injection site
infection unless all the alcohol is allowed to air dry.* Intact skin on
the upper, outer arm, or on midthigh is relatively clean and a simple
swipe with clean water on a small clean pad or cotton swab and a pat dry
with a small absorbent sterile pad will be just as effective at
preventing injection site infection as using a typical alcohol swipe.
However, patients expect the smell and sting of the alcohol swab and old
habits often die hard even in the face of good data.

Thanks, but using old habits should always be updated with good new
evidence...agree?

On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

On 18/05/2021 16:48, wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Ah yes, 'only in America' ;-)

writes:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Wrong again.

On 5/18/2021 11:28 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 16:18, Retirednoguilt wrote:
On 5/18/2021 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I
assume surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The
UK does none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their
arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection
area for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no
visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.
Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to
clear it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of
antibiotic and one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if
it happened with skin injection the infected could just take
antibiotic orally.
*
Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as
much of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542


It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.


A quick swipe with an alcohol swab will not sterilize the skin.
Otherwise, surgeons would just swab their hands for a second before
putting on gloves and prepare the operative incision site the same
way. **Thorough cleaning with a much stronger agent is required, both
of hands and incisional site to minimize the risk of contamination.
Additionally, if not allowed to air dry after swabbing, residual
liquid alcohol on the skin will be dragged into the puncture wound
made by the needle, causing unnecessary pain and possibly even
possibly inactivating the drug or vaccine being injected.
Theoretically, you can even float some skin bacteria from the
perimeter of the swab site into the small pool of residual liquid
alcohol and increase the risk of injection site infection unless all
the alcohol is allowed to air dry.* Intact skin on the upper, outer
arm, or on midthigh is relatively clean and a simple swipe with clean
water on a small clean pad or cotton swab and a pat dry with a small
absorbent sterile pad will be just as effective at preventing
injection site infection as using a typical alcohol swipe. However,
patients expect the smell and sting of the alcohol swab and old habits
often die hard even in the face of good data.

Thanks, but using old habits should always be updated with good new
evidence...agree?

Absolutely I agree. I'm merely stating the reality of what happens.
Physicians, sworn to do no harm, tend as a group to be hesitant to
modify long standing practices pending receipt of (whatever their
personal definition is of) "convincing evidence" to the contrary of what
they've being doing up until that time. This is especially true if the
new evidence, regardless of how sound, gets ahead of what the courts
define to be the "community standard of practice". In those cases,
there's the added constant threat of malpractice in the event of a poor
outcome after altering practice to be consistent with the new evidence
which isn't yet considered to be that community's standard of practice.
Of course there are exceptions and individual physicians will be more
or less apt to be early adopters.

On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:56:13 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 18/05/2021 16:48, wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Ah yes, 'only in America' ;-)


And in Canada, in my experience - the alcohol prep pad -
not the lawyers ...

Alcohol swabs are no longer stocked in First Aid kits -
- once used to treat minor cuts & scrapes -
it was found that the alcohol actually killed some skin cells
at the wound and that in turn promoted bacteria.
- benzalkonium chloride is now used instead.
" Bactine " being one popular product.
John T.

On 18/05/2021 17:24, Retirednoguilt wrote:
On 5/18/2021 11:28 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 16:18, Retirednoguilt wrote:
On 5/18/2021 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I
assume surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab.
The UK does none of this now. None of my family had any blood on
their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection
area for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no
visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.* I had
it happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet
AMD. Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed
to clear it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of
antibiotic and one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if
it happened with skin injection the infected could just take
antibiotic orally.
*
Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is
totally different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as
much of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542


It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.


A quick swipe with an alcohol swab will not sterilize the skin.
Otherwise, surgeons would just swab their hands for a second before
putting on gloves and prepare the operative incision site the same
way. **Thorough cleaning with a much stronger agent is required, both
of hands and incisional site to minimize the risk of contamination.
Additionally, if not allowed to air dry after swabbing, residual
liquid alcohol on the skin will be dragged into the puncture wound
made by the needle, causing unnecessary pain and possibly even
possibly inactivating the drug or vaccine being injected.
Theoretically, you can even float some skin bacteria from the
perimeter of the swab site into the small pool of residual liquid
alcohol and increase the risk of injection site infection unless all
the alcohol is allowed to air dry.* Intact skin on the upper, outer
arm, or on midthigh is relatively clean and a simple swipe with clean
water on a small clean pad or cotton swab and a pat dry with a small
absorbent sterile pad will be just as effective at preventing
injection site infection as using a typical alcohol swipe. However,
patients expect the smell and sting of the alcohol swab and old
habits often die hard even in the face of good data.
*
Thanks, but using old habits should always be updated with good new
evidence...agree?

Absolutely I agree.* I'm merely stating the reality of what happens.
Physicians, sworn to do no harm, tend as a group to be hesitant to
modify long standing practices pending receipt of (whatever their
personal definition is of) "convincing evidence" to the contrary of what
they've being doing up until that time.* This is especially true if the
new evidence, regardless of how sound, gets ahead of what the courts
define to be the "community standard of practice".* In those cases,
there's the added constant threat of malpractice in the event of a poor
outcome after altering practice to be consistent with the new evidence
which isn't yet considered to be that community's standard of practice.
* Of course there are exceptions and individual physicians will be more
or less apt to be early adopters.

Ok, thanks for that info.

On 5/18/2021 12:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Wrong again.


Perhaps legally inaccurate, but nonetheless a reasonable concern in
actual practice (in the U.S.) Never under-estimate the constant concern
pertaining to malpractice suits, whether those suits are justified or
frivolous, that hangs like the sword of Damocles over the heads of the
majority of clinicians in private practice. Especially in those in
clinical care who are engaged in high-risk for malpractice suit
categories of care.

On 18/05/2021 17:27, wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:56:13 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 18/05/2021 16:48, wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Ah yes, 'only in America' ;-)


And in Canada, in my experience - the alcohol prep pad -
not the lawyers ...

Alcohol swabs are no longer stocked in First Aid kits -
- once used to treat minor cuts & scrapes -
it was found that the alcohol actually killed some skin cells
at the wound and that in turn promoted bacteria.
- benzalkonium chloride is now used instead.
" Bactine " being one popular product.
John T.


Ok, but I've never put anything on cuts.
i believe that the bleeding expels any bacterial infection.
Maybe I've been lucky?

Retirednoguilt writes:
On 5/18/2021 12:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Wrong again.


Perhaps legally inaccurate, but nonetheless a reasonable concern in
actual practice (in the U.S.) Never under-estimate the constant concern
pertaining to malpractice suits, whether those suits are justified or
frivolous, that hangs like the sword of Damocles over the heads of the
majority of clinicians in private practice. Especially in those in
clinical care who are engaged in high-risk for malpractice suit
categories of care.

DAGS "why swab an injection site first?:

You'll get plenty of information on why the medical professionals
believe it to be useful. Always err towards the desired outcome.

On 5/18/2021 12:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Retirednoguilt writes:
On 5/18/2021 12:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Wrong again.


Perhaps legally inaccurate, but nonetheless a reasonable concern in
actual practice (in the U.S.) Never under-estimate the constant concern
pertaining to malpractice suits, whether those suits are justified or
frivolous, that hangs like the sword of Damocles over the heads of the
majority of clinicians in private practice. Especially in those in
clinical care who are engaged in high-risk for malpractice suit
categories of care.

DAGS "why swab an injection site first?:

You'll get plenty of information on why the medical professionals
believe it to be useful. Always err towards the desired outcome.


"Desired outcome" can be both subjective and elusive.

On 5/18/2021 10:32 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle. Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.



Don't know if true or not, but did read that if the shot is given right
a way after the wipe it may hirt more than if waiting a few seconds for
the alcohol do evaporate.

Just as with many things it may just be a feel good thing. I understand
that women were shaved between the legs before giving birth at one time
but that practice was stopped a good number of years ago.


Twenty years ago I got shaved between the legs for a heart cath but then
they went in through my neck.

Same thing happened to a friend a couple of weeks ago where they went in
through his arm but he was told they shave the groin just in case they
had to go that way.

Last year getting a new heart valve they went in through both legs but I
did not recall shaving and they apparently just did a small part where
they put the cath in.

Twenty years ago they used depilatory for chest hairs when chest was
cracked. Annoying when bristly hair grew back.

Back in that time frame I was taking inject-able blood thinner twice a
day for a year. I would swab my belly and inject into skin fold there.
Lots of bruises but no infections.

I was on a jury where a woman had died and plaintiffs claimed sepsis
since urine sample showed bacteria. Autopsy showed no sign of sepsis
and it was pointed out that urine samples from women were often laden
with bacteria from that area.

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Bull****.

"Bod" wrote in message
...
On 18/05/2021 17:27, wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 16:56:13 +0100, Bod wrote:

On 18/05/2021 16:48, wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the
jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Ah yes, 'only in America' ;-)


And in Canada, in my experience - the alcohol prep pad -
not the lawyers ...

Alcohol swabs are no longer stocked in First Aid kits -
- once used to treat minor cuts & scrapes -
it was found that the alcohol actually killed some skin cells
at the wound and that in turn promoted bacteria.
- benzalkonium chloride is now used instead.
" Bactine " being one popular product.

Ok, but I've never put anything on cuts.

I dont either. I used to use mercurochrome because
thats what the parents did but when it was no longer
easy to get it dissolved in alcohol, stopped using
anything and didnt get any infected cuts or grazes.

i believe that the bleeding expels any bacterial infection.

That doesnt explain why hospitals do carefully clean
wounds before stitching etc.

And when I got a significant facial injury they insisted
on a course of antibiotics and spelt out the downsides
of it getting infected so I did what they said to do.

Mate of mine had a hip replacement which got
infected and almost killed him so your bleeding
theory cant actually be reality.

Maybe I've been lucky?

"Retirednoguilt" wrote in message
...
On 5/18/2021 12:51 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Retirednoguilt writes:
On 5/18/2021 12:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does
none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the
jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area
for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Wrong again.


Perhaps legally inaccurate, but nonetheless a reasonable concern in
actual practice (in the U.S.) Never under-estimate the constant concern
pertaining to malpractice suits, whether those suits are justified or
frivolous, that hangs like the sword of Damocles over the heads of the
majority of clinicians in private practice. Especially in those in
clinical care who are engaged in high-risk for malpractice suit
categories of care.

DAGS "why swab an injection site first?:

You'll get plenty of information on why the medical professionals
believe it to be useful. Always err towards the desired outcome.


"Desired outcome" can be both subjective and elusive.

Not in this case.

"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
On 5/18/2021 10:32 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle.
Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.



Don't know if true or not, but did read that if the shot is given right
a way after the wipe it may hirt more than if waiting a few seconds for
the alcohol do evaporate.

Just as with many things it may just be a feel good thing. I understand
that women were shaved between the legs before giving birth at one time
but that practice was stopped a good number of years ago.


Twenty years ago I got shaved between the legs for a heart cath

I did it myself.

but then they went in through my neck.

They use the groin with my stent.

Same thing happened to a friend a couple of weeks ago where they went in
through his arm but he was told they shave the groin just in case they had
to go that way.

Last year getting a new heart valve they went in through both legs but I
did not recall shaving and they apparently just did a small part where
they put the cath in.

Twenty years ago they used depilatory for chest hairs when chest was
cracked. Annoying when bristly hair grew back.

Back in that time frame I was taking inject-able blood thinner twice a day
for a year. I would swab my belly and inject into skin fold there. Lots
of bruises but no infections.

I was on a jury where a woman had died and plaintiffs claimed sepsis since
urine sample showed bacteria. Autopsy showed no sign of sepsis and it was
pointed out that urine samples from women were often laden with bacteria
from that area.

On 5/18/2021 1:49 PM, Rod Speed wrote:


"Frank" "frank wrote in message
...
On 5/18/2021 10:32 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
Â* I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle.
Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.



Don't know if true or not, but did read that if the shot is given right
a way after the wipe it may hirt more than if waiting a few seconds for
the alcohol do evaporate.

Just as with many things it may just be a feel good thing.Â* I understand
that women were shaved between the legs before giving birth at one time
but that practice was stopped a good number of years ago.


Twenty years ago I got shaved between the legs for a heart cath

I did it myself.

but then they went in through my neck.

They use the groin with my stent.

Same for my stents fourteen years ago. They left some sort of valve in
for several hours in case they had to go in again.

Also when they surgically removed my blood clot 20 years ago they put in
a clot filter days later through the groin. It is amazing what they can
do with catheters. My aortic valve was large, maybe an inch, and they
could snake it in and expand it. It is like a large stent that they
leave in the heart. If I need another in 10 years they can put another
right over it. Wife's friend had a mechanical valve inserted at the
Cleveland Clinic. These last much longer but can only be replaced
surgically.

I believe Arnold Schwarzenegger has had three heart valves surgically
implanted as twice they could not do it with a catheter. Think the
second was a redo as he damaged the valve by exercising too vigorously
after the first.

On Wed, 19 May 2021 03:49:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Twenty years ago I got shaved between the legs for a heart cath

I did it myself.

Of course, you did, you auto-contradicting senile pest!


--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"There will always be progressives such as Harriet Harperson who want to
take that extra step forward. Paedophiles are still a long way from
being widely accepted."
MID:

Your kind will NEVER be accepted, in NO part of the world, you filthy old
reject and pedo swine!

On Wed, 19 May 2021 03:45:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Senile Rodent about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

LOL!!!

On Wed, 19 May 2021 03:46:19 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Wed, 19 May 2021 03:33:16 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

03:33 in Australia??? And you are up and trolling ALREADY, yet AGAIN?

Just HOW miserable are you, you abnormal trolling senile pest? LOL

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 5/18/2021 10:32 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...
I have always had the arm wiped with something before the needle. Seems
to be standard practice to put a bandaid over the spot after the shot
needed or not.
I seldom have had any blood on the bandaid after I removed it.

The UK used to do it that way, but have changed the practice.
I assume they've found out that wiping with spirit before a jab is
unnessary. I'm sure that they aren't simply gambling.



Don't know if true or not, but did read that if the shot is given right
a way after the wipe it may hirt more than if waiting a few seconds for
the alcohol do evaporate.

Just as with many things it may just be a feel good thing. I understand
that women were shaved between the legs before giving birth at one time
but that practice was stopped a good number of years ago.


Stopped it for birth but many women shave now for appearance and bathing
suits.

On 5/18/2021 11:28 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 16:18, Retirednoguilt wrote:
On 5/18/2021 10:43 AM, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 7:51 AM, Bod wrote:
On 18/05/2021 12:49, Frank wrote:
On 5/18/2021 3:42 AM, Bod wrote:
I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I
assume surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The
UK does none of this now. None of my family had any blood on their
arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection
area for a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no
visible blood.
(Just an observation)



I am surprised that the Brits do not do this as problems can result.
Staph bacteria exist on the skin and can infect the body.* I had it
happen a few months ago with an injection into my eye for wet AMD.
Was a bitch to deal with as four more injections were needed to
clear it up: one to identify bacteria (it was staph), two of
antibiotic and one of steroid.

Not trying to scare anybody about getting injected and suspect if
it happened with skin injection the infected could just take
antibiotic orally.
*
Fair enough, but comparing an eye injection to an arm jab is totally
different I suspect.

I did not research the whole thing but there is maybe just about as
much of a problem.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/injec...doctor-2616542


It may be questionable as to the injection site being sterilized first.


A quick swipe with an alcohol swab will not sterilize the skin.
Otherwise, surgeons would just swab their hands for a second before
putting on gloves and prepare the operative incision site the same
way. **Thorough cleaning with a much stronger agent is required, both
of hands and incisional site to minimize the risk of contamination.
Additionally, if not allowed to air dry after swabbing, residual
liquid alcohol on the skin will be dragged into the puncture wound
made by the needle, causing unnecessary pain and possibly even
possibly inactivating the drug or vaccine being injected.
Theoretically, you can even float some skin bacteria from the
perimeter of the swab site into the small pool of residual liquid
alcohol and increase the risk of injection site infection unless all
the alcohol is allowed to air dry.* Intact skin on the upper, outer
arm, or on midthigh is relatively clean and a simple swipe with clean
water on a small clean pad or cotton swab and a pat dry with a small
absorbent sterile pad will be just as effective at preventing
injection site infection as using a typical alcohol swipe. However,
patients expect the smell and sting of the alcohol swab and old habits
often die hard even in the face of good data.

Thanks, but using old habits should always be updated with good new
evidence...agree?

True but it is probably easier to swab than explain why not to 300
million people.

On 5/18/2021 12:23 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
writes:
On Tue, 18 May 2021 08:42:04 +0100, Bod wrote:

I've noticed that the US pre wipes the injection area with I assume
surgical spirit and a plaster is applied after the jab. The UK does none
of this now. None of my family had any blood on their arms after the jab.
At most I've seen a piece of cotton wool held on the injection area for
a matter of a few seconds, then it is removedwith no visible blood.
(Just an observation)


Lawyers

Wrong again.


Get a shot for anything with no swab.. Come down with a headache. Some
lawyer will be on TV "did you get a headache after and injection with no
swab? You may be entitled to compensation"