"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 13:57:41 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease expert, called “a
very disturbing week”.

“I think it’s pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,” he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

“Today’s announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,” Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was “a historic thing”.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.
You are stopping them from crossing the border because they pose a
risk. There is a pandemic. You need a law like we have here - that
requires a quarantine period. We are not saying you have to be locked
up. We are saying IF YOU WANT IN you will quaranine for 14 days, and
if you agree to quarantine for 14 days AND YOU DO NOT you can be fined
up to $750000 and jailed for up to 6 months. It's ALL VOLUNTARY.
Nobody is saying you have to cross the border You can stay right
where you are - and do whatever you please (or whatever the law where
you are requires you to do.)

You say you are heading for Alaska from Montana, and then loiter on
the way in Alberta? You are Lying to the Canadian Border Service and
breaking immigration law which requires you to traverse directly to
Alaska or quarantine for 14 days.

Nobody is saying you have to quarantine IF YOU TRAVERSE DIRECTLY -
but if the provision keeps getting abused you MAY soon need to
quarantine at the border BEFORE being allowed to enter.

We would be setting a MORE dangerous precedent just letting you in.

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 14:05:29 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

What is what happens? If you mean, inarticulately, that the death rate
is the same, that's nonsense. And I don't believe you either. You'd
be at the hospital,pleading for help. You would not be watching
yourself or a family member get worse or die at home. But if you have
an answer, don't expect me to read it. I have't read your posts in
years, and I only saw this one because Clare quoted it. I'd started my
answer before I noticed it was you.
Think I'll do the same. Fretwell hasn't had a single usefull thing to
say in over 4 months.

See you Greg!!!!

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the government’s top infectious disease expert, called “a
very disturbing week”.

“I think it’s pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,” he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

“Today’s announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,” Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was “a historic thing”.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
Thanks - I didn't THINK the US was stupid enough to NOT have a
quarantine system defined in law - but I knew Fretwell was stupid
enough to believe itw was a bad and /or unenforceable concept.

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert, called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html

Those are all subject to a "show cause" order and it is up to the
government to demonstrate that the person is infected.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:28:02 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 13:57:41 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert, called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.
You are stopping them from crossing the border because they pose a
risk. There is a pandemic. You need a law like we have here - that
requires a quarantine period. We are not saying you have to be locked
up. We are saying IF YOU WANT IN you will quaranine for 14 days, and
if you agree to quarantine for 14 days AND YOU DO NOT you can be fined
up to $750000 and jailed for up to 6 months. It's ALL VOLUNTARY.
Nobody is saying you have to cross the border You can stay right
where you are - and do whatever you please (or whatever the law where
you are requires you to do.)

You say you are heading for Alaska from Montana, and then loiter on
the way in Alberta? You are Lying to the Canadian Border Service and
breaking immigration law which requires you to traverse directly to
Alaska or quarantine for 14 days.

Nobody is saying you have to quarantine IF YOU TRAVERSE DIRECTLY -
but if the provision keeps getting abused you MAY soon need to
quarantine at the border BEFORE being allowed to enter.

We would be setting a MORE dangerous precedent just letting you in.

If I go to Alaska again I will traverse Canada at 33,000 feet or
higher.

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:29:49 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 14:05:29 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

What is what happens? If you mean, inarticulately, that the death rate
is the same, that's nonsense. And I don't believe you either. You'd
be at the hospital,pleading for help. You would not be watching
yourself or a family member get worse or die at home. But if you have
an answer, don't expect me to read it. I have't read your posts in
years, and I only saw this one because Clare quoted it. I'd started my
answer before I noticed it was you.
Think I'll do the same. Fretwell hasn't had a single usefull thing to
say in over 4 months.

See you Greg!!!!

Yeah, in about an hour. You know you can't quit me. ;-)

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:33:00 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert, called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
Thanks - I didn't THINK the US was stupid enough to NOT have a
quarantine system defined in law - but I knew Fretwell was stupid
enough to believe itw was a bad and /or unenforceable concept.


It is still based on someone being infected, not just that they are
crossing a state line. That is why EVERY time you hear about a
quarantine here it is VOLUNTARY.
The government can ASK you to quarantine and in most cases the person
doesn't really do it. Sure they say they will stay home, except for
all the "essential" trips they need to take.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€�
Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals
in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and
imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html

Those are all subject to a "show cause" order

BULL****.

and it is up to the government to demonstrate that the person is infected.

BULL****.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in
a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

That hasnt, legally.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:33:00 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky

wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€�
Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals
in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still
be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat
them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus
from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't
issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and
imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
Thanks - I didn't THINK the US was stupid enough to NOT have a
quarantine system defined in law - but I knew Fretwell was stupid
enough to believe itw was a bad and /or unenforceable concept.

It is still based on someone being infected,

Wrong, as always.

not just that they are crossing a state line.

Wrong, as always.

That is why EVERY time you hear about
a quarantine here it is VOLUNTARY.

Wrong, as always.

The government can ASK you to quarantine and
in most cases the person doesn't really do it.

More bull****.

Sure they say they will stay home, except
for all the "essential" trips they need to take.

More bull****.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:48:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in
a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

That hasnt, legally.

Saying the Congress and SCOTUS hasn't revisited immigration laws since
1954 when they closed Ellis Island is as stupid as saying there were
not close to 4000 drone attacks in Afghanistan.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:53:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:33:00 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky

wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€�
Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals
in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still
be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat
them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus
from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't
issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and
imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
Thanks - I didn't THINK the US was stupid enough to NOT have a
quarantine system defined in law - but I knew Fretwell was stupid
enough to believe itw was a bad and /or unenforceable concept.

It is still based on someone being infected,

Wrong, as always.

not just that they are crossing a state line.

Wrong, as always.

That is why EVERY time you hear about
a quarantine here it is VOLUNTARY.

Wrong, as always.

The government can ASK you to quarantine and
in most cases the person doesn't really do it.

More bull****.

Sure they say they will stay home, except
for all the "essential" trips they need to take.

More bull****.

Strong talk from someone 12,000 miles away without a ****ing clue.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:48:37 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.

There is evidence of long-lasting complications, so I doubt he says
"cure". Not enough time to tell much about these possible problems.

On 07/04/2020 03:48 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.


micky took exception to that. These are the sort of numbers that drive
me crazy:

Montana

Test Results 98,950
Negative 97,783
Positive 1,167
Pending 0
Recovered 678
Hospitalized 20
Ventilated 0
ICU 0
Deaths 23

Until recently the state hasn't done much random testing. You had to be
vetted by a health care professional and exhibit symptoms to be
scheduled for testing. Doing some quick rounding 1 out of 100 tested
positive.

Okay, that's good news. So what about the 400 odd positives that aren't
recovered, dead, or hospitalized?

Then there are the sensational headlines '11 year-old dies of
COVID-19!!!' Well below the fold they get around to mentioning said 11
year-old had multiple preexisting problems.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:48:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky

wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€�
Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals
in
a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still
be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat
them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow
states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus
from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't
issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

That hasnt, legally.

Saying the Congress and SCOTUS hasn't revisited immigration laws

We arent talking about immigration laws, we are talking about QUARANTINE,
stupid.

On 07/04/2020 03:57 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.


As a 10 year-old I was disappointed to find the water in the colored
drinking fountains wasn't. it was just warm.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:53:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:33:00 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:17:21 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:57 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder

wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky

wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the
right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring
back,€�
Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the
curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that
hospitals
in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still
be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will
still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat
them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow
states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or
the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus
from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up
to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper
documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section
9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the
same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't
issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't
understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.


Really?

"Under 42 Code of Federal Regulations parts 70 and 71, CDC is
authorized
to detain, medically examine, and release persons arriving into the
United States and traveling between states who are suspected of
carrying
these communicable diseases.

As part of its federal authority, CDC routinely monitors persons
arriving at U.S. land border crossings and passengers and crew arriving
at U.S. ports of entry for signs or symptoms of communicable diseases.

When alerted about an ill passenger or crew member by the pilot of a
plane or captain of a ship, CDC may detain passengers and crew as
necessary to investigate whether the cause of the illness on board is a
communicable disease."

"If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a
federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal
levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement
officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are
authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and
imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine
if
they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance."

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
Thanks - I didn't THINK the US was stupid enough to NOT have a
quarantine system defined in law - but I knew Fretwell was stupid
enough to believe itw was a bad and /or unenforceable concept.

It is still based on someone being infected,

Wrong, as always.

not just that they are crossing a state line.

Wrong, as always.

That is why EVERY time you hear about
a quarantine here it is VOLUNTARY.

Wrong, as always.

The government can ASK you to quarantine and
in most cases the person doesn't really do it.

More bull****.

Sure they say they will stay home, except
for all the "essential" trips they need to take.

More bull****.

Strong talk from someone 12,000 miles away without a ****ing clue.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

On 07/04/2020 09:32 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:48:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in
a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

That hasnt, legally.

Saying the Congress and SCOTUS hasn't revisited immigration laws since
1954 when they closed Ellis Island is as stupid as saying there were
not close to 4000 drone attacks in Afghanistan.


They sure as hell revisited them in 1965.

On 07/04/2020 05:00 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:28:02 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 13:57:41 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert, called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.
You are stopping them from crossing the border because they pose a
risk. There is a pandemic. You need a law like we have here - that
requires a quarantine period. We are not saying you have to be locked
up. We are saying IF YOU WANT IN you will quaranine for 14 days, and
if you agree to quarantine for 14 days AND YOU DO NOT you can be fined
up to $750000 and jailed for up to 6 months. It's ALL VOLUNTARY.
Nobody is saying you have to cross the border You can stay right
where you are - and do whatever you please (or whatever the law where
you are requires you to do.)

You say you are heading for Alaska from Montana, and then loiter on
the way in Alberta? You are Lying to the Canadian Border Service and
breaking immigration law which requires you to traverse directly to
Alaska or quarantine for 14 days.

Nobody is saying you have to quarantine IF YOU TRAVERSE DIRECTLY -
but if the provision keeps getting abused you MAY soon need to
quarantine at the border BEFORE being allowed to enter.

We would be setting a MORE dangerous precedent just letting you in.

If I go to Alaska again I will traverse Canada at 33,000 feet or
higher.


Between a thousand miles of bad road or a flying sardine can I think I'd
take the sea level route. I've never really had the urge to go to
Alaska. I've been to Prince Rupert and you can see Alaska from there.
Close enough.

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 23:56:41 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:48:37 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.

There is evidence of long-lasting complications, so I doubt he says
"cure". Not enough time to tell much about these possible problems.
The proper term is "resolve".
80% of cases resolve themselves without medical intervention. They may
or may not have complications down the road.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:53:16 +1000, , better known as cantankerous trolling
senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:07:08 +1000, , better known as cantankerous trolling
senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:47:48 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:48:42 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH

--
More senile "wisdom" from Australian bull**** artist, senile Rodent:
"Some things are much harder to do than others."
Message-ID:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:06:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
dennis@home to retarded senile Rot:
"sod off rod you don't have a clue about anything."
Message-ID:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:06:10 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:48:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
om...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky

wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€�
Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals
in
a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still
be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat
them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow
states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus
from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't
issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

That hasnt, legally.

Saying the Congress and SCOTUS hasn't revisited immigration laws

We arent talking about immigration laws, we are talking about QUARANTINE,
stupid.


OK find me one, just ****ing ONE case where someone was charged for
violating quarantine in the last 10 years. There are thousands if not
millions of people who have been ASKED to quarantine because they were
traveling or that they may have been exposed and I doubt ANY of them
actually stayed locked down in any real sense.
Remember Cuomo said the majority of positive cases in New York SAID
they were staying home. That means they were either lying or someone
brought the virus to them. You know the virus was delivered to the
people who are locked down in a nursing home where they went to die.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:07:08 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



Strong talk from someone 12,000 miles away without a ****ing clue.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

I know when to concede to the expert.

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 22:10:39 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 05:00 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:28:02 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 13:57:41 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after what Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert, called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring back,€� Mr Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa historic thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the curve and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that hospitals in a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will still be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat them all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia, New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section 9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.
You are stopping them from crossing the border because they pose a
risk. There is a pandemic. You need a law like we have here - that
requires a quarantine period. We are not saying you have to be locked
up. We are saying IF YOU WANT IN you will quaranine for 14 days, and
if you agree to quarantine for 14 days AND YOU DO NOT you can be fined
up to $750000 and jailed for up to 6 months. It's ALL VOLUNTARY.
Nobody is saying you have to cross the border You can stay right
where you are - and do whatever you please (or whatever the law where
you are requires you to do.)

You say you are heading for Alaska from Montana, and then loiter on
the way in Alberta? You are Lying to the Canadian Border Service and
breaking immigration law which requires you to traverse directly to
Alaska or quarantine for 14 days.

Nobody is saying you have to quarantine IF YOU TRAVERSE DIRECTLY -
but if the provision keeps getting abused you MAY soon need to
quarantine at the border BEFORE being allowed to enter.

We would be setting a MORE dangerous precedent just letting you in.

If I go to Alaska again I will traverse Canada at 33,000 feet or
higher.


Between a thousand miles of bad road or a flying sardine can I think I'd
take the sea level route. I've never really had the urge to go to
Alaska. I've been to Prince Rupert and you can see Alaska from there.
Close enough.

We went to Alaska on our first "fly in and drive around for 3+ week"
vacations. It was the best then but subsequently we figured out our
other trips were actually better. New Zealand was probably the most
interesting, just because almost everything was different there but I
think we enjoyed the Montana trip and the Dakotas trip more than
Alaska.

On Sun, 05 Jul 2020 00:33:19 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 23:56:41 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:48:37 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.

There is evidence of long-lasting complications, so I doubt he says
"cure". Not enough time to tell much about these possible problems.
The proper term is "resolve".
80% of cases resolve themselves without medical intervention. They may
or may not have complications down the road.

You "may have complications" from that sunburn you got at the beach
when you were five too. Life is a terminal condition. Something is
going to kill you, Get over it.
It is all about how you live, not how you die.

wrote in message
news
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:06:10 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 11:48:42 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 05:07:25 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
news:6lg1gfdqgbgelhgthgpqhd3o740q42qf27@4ax. com...
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 04:32:48 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 23:09:00 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 21:48:43 -0400, Clare Snyder

wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 18:18:24 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:54:05 -0400, micky

wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 03 Jul 2020 13:35:28 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:39:10 +0100, Bod
wrote:

Now there are fears hospitals could run out of ICU beds, after
what
Dr
Anthony Fauci, the governments top infectious disease expert,
called €œa
very disturbing week€�.

€œI think its pretty obvious that we are not going in the
right
direction,€� he said.

https://www.news.com.au/world/corona...c2951995ec0c88

Then you hear from the chief dickhead:

€œTodays announcement proves that our economy is roaring
back,€�
Mr
Trump
told reporters, saying his effort to beat the virus was €œa
historic
thing€�.

We are trying to walk that fine line between flattening the
curve
and
national bankruptcy.

You realize, I hope, that flattening the curve was/is only an
intermediate goal. It was a goal at the start so that
hospitals
in
a
given area don't become overwhelmeed by sick people.

But even with a flat curve (is that a paradox?) there will still
be
people sick with Covid, may as many as will fill all the empty
hospital
beds, inc. the empty ICU beds. And 5% of those people will
still
be
dying

The actual goal is to isolate everyone with the virus, to track
down
those they've been in contact with and isolate them, and treat
them
all
medically, until the virus stops spreading. (Until someone
infected
comes from a different country or a different part of this
country.)

Too many people think flattening the curve is the best and final
goal.

In a truly free country with virtually open borders like the US,
flattening the curve is really all we can expect.
This is not an island and we have no real way to enforce
quarantines.
What do you think is going to work?
Change your quarantine laws to give them some teeth and allow
states
to close their borders. Canada's Maritime provinces closed their
borders. As of this week you can finally move between Nova Scotia,
New
Brunswick, and PEI - but you still can't get in from Quebec - or
the
Infected States of America.

OK I suppose we could just scrub off the concept of habeas corpus
from
the constitution. Until then, if the person files a writ, it is up
to
the state to prove there is a reason to hold them.
Simply crossing a state line or a border, with proper
documentation,
there is no "case of rebellion or invasion" Article One, Section
9,
clause 2.

Habeas corpus relates to the government holding someone. Not the
same
as closing a national or state border. not saying there aren't
issues
but it's not that. And the Reps in the Senate still don't
understand
that masks work, so it's not likely they'll go stronger than that.

You can close borders, even state borders but if you are confining
someone without due process simply for lawfully crossing a border,m
with no evidence that they are even sick, you are setting a very
dangerous precedent.

How odd that Ellis Island didnt.

70 years ago we also had white only water fountains and cops didn't
have to have a warrant to tap your phone. Things have changed.

That hasnt, legally.

Saying the Congress and SCOTUS hasn't revisited immigration laws

We arent talking about immigration laws, we are talking about QUARANTINE,
stupid.

OK find me one, just ****ing ONE case where someone
was charged for violating quarantine in the last 10 years.

Irrelevant to whether its legal to impose quarantine.

There are thousands if not millions of people who have
been ASKED to quarantine because they were traveling
or that they may have been exposed and I doubt ANY
of them actually stayed locked down in any real sense.

More fool you on that last.

Remember Cuomo said the majority of positive
cases in New York SAID they were staying home.
That means they were either lying or someone
brought the virus to them.

Or the question they asked wasnt worded properly
and they were not in fact actually asked if they NEVER
left home even to buy food and had it all delivered
and disinfected it in case it was infected and never
had any visitors at all.

You know the virus was delivered to the people who are
locked down in a nursing home where they went to die.

Irrelevant to the fact that its legal to quarantine
those who arent currently infected in the USA,

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 14:07:08 +1000, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



Strong talk from someone 12,000 miles away without a ****ing clue.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

I know when to concede to the expert.

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 05 Jul 2020 00:33:19 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 23:56:41 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:48:37 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So
since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.

There is evidence of long-lasting complications, so I doubt he says
"cure". Not enough time to tell much about these possible problems.
The proper term is "resolve".
80% of cases resolve themselves without medical intervention. They may
or may not have complications down the road.

You "may have complications" from that sunburn you got at the beach
when you were five too. Life is a terminal condition. Something is
going to kill you, Get over it.

It is all about how you live, not how you die.

That's bull**** too. There are much more pleasant ways
to die than with this virus.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 00:33:19 -0400,
wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 23:56:41 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 04 Jul 2020 17:48:37 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 11:28:38 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 07/04/2020 02:19 AM, micky wrote:
You don't understand the difference between treat and cure? So since
there is no cure, if you or someone in your family got it, you'd stay
home and let what happens happen?

If you compare positive cases versus hospitalizations, that is exactly
what happens.

Even the left's guru, Fauci says 80% of cases cure spontaneously.

There is evidence of long-lasting complications, so I doubt he says
"cure". Not enough time to tell much about these possible problems.
The proper term is "resolve".
80% of cases resolve themselves without medical intervention. They may
or may not have complications down the road.

Since the lockdowns started, 10 times the number of people have been dying in their homes than compared to before.

On 7/5/2020 11:24 AM, wrote:
10 times the number of people have been dying in their homes than compared to before.

This is the closest I could quickly find to such claims. Do you have
something better?

https://www.propublica.org/article/t...-than-reported

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 04:18:57 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

04:18??? LOL So you WILL be up and trolling ALL night, ALL morning, ALL
afternoon, and ALL evening, AGAIN! LMAO

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 04:13:31 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/