We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Sorry, I finger farted my previous post.
Heres the part of the post that I didn't get typed.

Caution: these pictures could make weak people faint.

http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner/wiringhell/

So, I need help. Serious help. I'm looking for an electrition in the
Omaha, Nebraska area that understands low-voltage system.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Sorry , can't help here, but that is the funniest thing I
have seen in a long time...

RSMEINER wrote:
We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.





Sorry, I finger farted my previous post.
Heres the part of the post that I didn't get typed.

Caution: these pictures could make weak people faint.

http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner/wiringhell/

So, I need help. Serious help. I'm looking for an electrition in the
Omaha, Nebraska area that understands low-voltage system.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

I can't help ya .. but umm .. cut the red wire? Or call an electrician.

"RSMEINER" wrote in message
...
We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house
so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I
started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights
wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Sorry, I finger farted my previous post.
Heres the part of the post that I didn't get typed.

Caution: these pictures could make weak people faint.

http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner/wiringhell/

So, I need help. Serious help. I'm looking for an electrition in the
Omaha, Nebraska area that understands low-voltage system.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Wow, I'm impressed.

However, you must realize that if anyone sees that, they will call
the utilities company and have them shut off your utilities.

Just be careful.








On 10 Aug 2004 23:41:25 GMT, rap (RSMEINER) wrote:

We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

I can't help ya .. but umm .. cut the red wire? Or call an electrician.

Would love to call an electrician. But would the average
electrician have knowledge on this kind of system ?

Fortunatly that rat's nest of wires only controls the light switches
in the house. Everything else is standard wiring.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Sorry , can't help here, but that is the funniest thing I
have seen in a long time...

I was thinking it was just sad.
Funny might work also.


Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Wow, I'm impressed.

However, you must realize that if anyone sees that, they will call
the utilities company and have them shut off your utilities.

Just be careful.

I'm careful enough to know that I'm over my head and won't touch
a thing in that mess again. I tried. It wasn't pretty.

As the house is sitting empty, I might just flip the breakers on that
mess. I actually found the breakers for it. Nice clean normal wiring
at the breaker box.

Would that mess of wiring be normal for a house built around 1960 ?
Thats just the wiring for the light switches.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

wiring from hell
From: rap


Wow, I'm impressed.

However, you must realize that if anyone sees that, they will call
the utilities company and have them shut off your utilities.

Just be careful.

I'm careful enough to know that I'm over my head and won't touch
a thing in that mess again. I tried. It wasn't pretty.

As the house is sitting empty, I might just flip the breakers on that
mess. I actually found the breakers for it. Nice clean normal wiring
at the breaker box.

Would that mess of wiring be normal for a house built around 1960 ?
Thats just the wiring for the light switches.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

It wouldn't be common or typical, but that is about the time low-voltage
switching for residences made it's debut.

Fortunately, it never caught on. If the problem is that lights do not respond
to the switches, check the switches first. Remove them and use a jumper to
"fool" the relay to open or close. If that doesn't work, you know the problem
is with that light's relay. Those relays are readily available and they do wear
out.

As complicated as that mess looks, it's all really very simple, it's just that
there's a LOT of simple things going on in one place that makes it difficult to
understand.

RSMEINER wrote:

We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.

http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner/wiringhell/

So, I need help. Serious help. I'm looking for an electrition in the
Omaha, Nebraska area that understands low-voltage system.

You have my sympathy. We recently sold our 1964-ish house in NJ with a
low-voltage system in it.

We found an electrician who works on this type of system by calling
around to the various electricians in the area. If the manufacturer is
still in existence, you might be able to get the names of local
electricians who work on their systems from them.

Besides relays going bad, another problem we had was with switches that
stuck. There is a flat switch that has a tendency to "hang" one of the
corners when pressed in, and this caused the whole system to lock in its
current state (some lights on, some off). The fix was easy - go around
pressing switches until you find the one that's stuck and press it again
to release the hung-up corner. And then replace the switch with a
different type!

One thing I miss: Some of the lights were wired up to be controlled by
five or six different switches, and there was a master control panel in
one bedroom that was hooked to nearly every light in the house.

Good luck!

FurPaw

"RSMEINER" wrote in message
...
We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house
so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights
wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Looks pretty common to me. At least you have a panel. I have a friend that
they just put the relays in the attic willy nilly and it IS an bear to
understand.

Low voltage starts out at the transformer and then goes to the switches. As
you close the switch you close the coil and then the 120v power is turned
on.

Get an VOM meter and start out at panel. Do you have voltage on both sides
of the transformer. Then try with a jumper wire to from the transformer to
the relay that is not functioning. If it changes state then your problem is
out at the switch. You do not need both a hot and a negative at the
switches. I usually wire up the coils to the positive side of the
transformer and switch the negative side. I have gotten over 1000 feet doing
this.

To bad you so far away. I would like a challenge like this.

"RSMEINER" wrote in message
...
We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house
so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights
wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.


Hope it's a one-story house with open ceilings in the basement. If I was
touring the open house and saw that mess, I'd run away screaming. You won't
like this, but my recommendation is to NOT pound money down a rathole trying
to fix that rat's nest. From the more recent-looking wirenuts, several
others have already tried. Bite the bullet, and pay an electrician to rip
out all that low voltage mess, and either replace it with a modern
low-voltage system, or (probably cheaper) snake new wires to all the switch
locations, and replace with conventional wiring.

aem sends...

"RSMEINER" wrote in message
...
I can't help ya .. but umm .. cut the red wire? Or call an electrician.

Would love to call an electrician. But would the average
electrician have knowledge on this kind of system ?

We have the same system in our house, and that photo looks very familiar.
We did find an electrician who is familiar with the low voltage system. I
would specifically suggest that you find someone who was working as an
electrician in the 60s, the apparent heydey of these monstrosities.

"FurPaw" wrote in message
...
Besides relays going bad, another problem we had was with switches that
stuck. There is a flat switch that has a tendency to "hang" one of the
corners when pressed in, and this caused the whole system to lock in its
current state (some lights on, some off). The fix was easy - go around
pressing switches until you find the one that's stuck and press it again
to release the hung-up corner. And then replace the switch with a
different type!

Yes, it is easy to fix this once you realize what the problem is. The first
time it happens and you don't know that there is a stuck switch is enough to
drive you batty. It happened here only a few weeks after we moved into this
house, and we absolutely panicked. Now when it happens (not a lot, but
maybe a couple times a year) we know what to do.


One thing I miss: Some of the lights were wired up to be controlled by
five or six different switches, and there was a master control panel in
one bedroom that was hooked to nearly every light in the house.

I do like this feature. We have two master panels in our house: one in the
master bedroom and one in the kitchen, it is handy to walk in from outside
and be able to switch on most all the lights in the house.

We have the same system in our house, and that photo looks very familiar.
We did find an electrician who is familiar with the low voltage system. I
would specifically suggest that you find someone who was working as an
electrician in the 60s, the apparent heydey of these monstrosities.

My father inlaw was the original builder and only owner of the house.
He was originally a plumber but belonged to this group of good old
boys from all the various trades. The electrition that did the install
was part of that group. But he died years ago. In fact, I think the
entire group of good old boys has long since passed away. But their
sons are still around and have their own group. I'm going to contact
a few of them today and see if they know of anyone.





Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

You have my sympathy. We recently sold our 1964-ish house in NJ with a
low-voltage system in it.

We found an electrician who works on this type of system by calling
around to the various electricians in the area. If the manufacturer is
still in existence, you might be able to get the names of local
electricians who work on their systems from them.

Besides relays going bad, another problem we had was with switches that
stuck. There is a flat switch that has a tendency to "hang" one of the
corners when pressed in, and this caused the whole system to lock in its
current state (some lights on, some off). The fix was easy - go around
pressing switches until you find the one that's stuck and press it again
to release the hung-up corner. And then replace the switch with a
different type!

One thing I miss: Some of the lights were wired up to be controlled by
five or six different switches, and there was a master control panel in
one bedroom that was hooked to nearly every light in the house.

Good luck!

FurPaw


Manufactuar doesn't have a list of electritions that work on their stuff.
To bad, that would have made it much easier. They suggested I go
to a electrical supply house and see if they know of anyone. Could
do that.

I pressed every danged switch in the house. And it's a big house and
lots of switches. None were sticking.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Looks pretty common to me. At least you have a panel. I have a friend that
they just put the relays in the attic willy nilly and it IS an bear to
understand.

Low voltage starts out at the transformer and then goes to the switches. As
you close the switch you close the coil and then the 120v power is turned
on.

Get an VOM meter and start out at panel. Do you have voltage on both sides
of the transformer. Then try with a jumper wire to from the transformer to
the relay that is not functioning. If it changes state then your problem is
out at the switch. You do not need both a hot and a negative at the
switches. I usually wire up the coils to the positive side of the
transformer and switch the negative side. I have gotten over 1000 feet doing
this.

To bad you so far away. I would like a challenge like this.


It's about time you took a vacation !!
It will be a challange. I think at least 1 bundle of the wires in
that mess goes to the whole house intercom system. I don't
think that works either and don't even care. If I can figure out
what wires those are and get them bundled up and out of the
way, things might not look so bad.

What does SQLlit stand for ?




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Hope it's a one-story house with open ceilings in the basement. If I was
touring the open house and saw that mess, I'd run away screaming. You won't
like this, but my recommendation is to NOT pound money down a rathole trying
to fix that rat's nest. From the more recent-looking wirenuts, several
others have already tried. Bite the bullet, and pay an electrician to rip
out all that low voltage mess, and either replace it with a modern
low-voltage system, or (probably cheaper) snake new wires to all the switch
locations, and replace with conventional wiring.

aem sends...


3 stories plus finished basement.
We are going to sell the house but not with the wiring like that.
I wouldn't do that to anyone.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

040810 2301 - FurPaw posted:

RSMEINER wrote:

We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.

http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner/wiringhell/

So, I need help. Serious help. I'm looking for an electrition in the
Omaha, Nebraska area that understands low-voltage system.

You have my sympathy. We recently sold our 1964-ish house in NJ with a
low-voltage system in it.

We found an electrician who works on this type of system by calling
around to the various electricians in the area. If the manufacturer is
still in existence, you might be able to get the names of local
electricians who work on their systems from them.

Besides relays going bad, another problem we had was with switches that
stuck. There is a flat switch that has a tendency to "hang" one of the
corners when pressed in, and this caused the whole system to lock in its
current state (some lights on, some off). The fix was easy - go around
pressing switches until you find the one that's stuck and press it again
to release the hung-up corner. And then replace the switch with a
different type!

One thing I miss: Some of the lights were wired up to be controlled by
five or six different switches, and there was a master control panel in
one bedroom that was hooked to nearly every light in the house.

Good luck!

FurPaw

If you have a large house, those low voltage remote switching systems are
really great, and, as noted, in a master bedroom, a selector switch and
button arrangement can be installed to turn on or off just about any light
in the house or outside lights. It is a shame that someone has wired such a
mess as illustrated, but, and again, as noted, it is not a disaster, and it
can be repaired.

A remote low voltage switching system would be extremely desirable in the
case of long corridors in large buildings to control the corridor lighting
from several different places rather than using the usual 3-way and 4-way
lighting switching systems to reduce the voltage drop on the long runs of
lighting wiring.

From: indago


A remote low voltage switching system would be extremely desirable in the
case of long corridors in large buildings to control the corridor lighting
from several different places rather than using the usual 3-way and 4-way
lighting switching systems to reduce the voltage drop on the long runs of
lighting wiring.


It is also used for energy management. Computerized BMS systems (Building
Maintainence Systems) control the lighting levels based on occupancy and
ambient daylight.

In a residential setting, master stations of 16-24 zones allow one to actually
see which rooms are lit and which are not.

The OP is lucky that his system has one central location for the relays. This
arrangement defeats one of the acclaimed benefits of a LV system - saving wire.

If you have a large house, those low voltage remote switching systems are
really great, and, as noted, in a master bedroom, a selector switch and
button arrangement can be installed to turn on or off just about any light
in the house or outside lights. It is a shame that someone has wired such a
mess as illustrated, but, and again, as noted, it is not a disaster, and it
can be repaired.

A remote low voltage switching system would be extremely desirable in the
case of long corridors in large buildings to control the corridor lighting
from several different places rather than using the usual 3-way and 4-way
lighting switching systems to reduce the voltage drop on the long runs of
lighting wiring.



Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
We found a master board with a ton of buttons on it behind the
curtins in the master bedroom. None of the buttons are marked
of course so it will be trial and error to figure out what is what.

Thanks

Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Randy,

My parents used to own a house with that system and I ended up being
the person to keep it running.

First: I am not a licensed electrician. I would like to think that any
electrician worth his salt could help you. It really is a simple
system.

Second: My advice is worth what you are paying and describes the
system I had which could be different then your system. If you are
uncomfortable with any of this call a pro!

I don't know how much you understand about low voltage systems so bear
with me. The system uses a relay to control the ac power. So the
device you see in the box is a relay. Out of one end is probably three
small gauge wires(common, off, on) which are connected to the wall
switchs. When you press the switch in the on position, the switch
causes two of the wires (on, common) to form a circuit which energizes
the circuit and causes the relay to close thus turning the power on to
the light. Pressing the switch in the off position cause two of the
wires (common, off) to form a circuit causing the relay to open
shutting the power off. The circuit is only active when you press it.
The relay stays in a latched state until the switched is press again.

If the light does not turn off:

1) Look for a stuck switch (consider labeling all the switches in the
house (yes a hell of a job) until you know what they all do). If a
switch is stuck then the on (or off) circuit is always energizes. Bear
in mind that with this system a switch could be anywhere.

2) Push the switch into the off position and hold it there. Does the
light go off then come back on when you let go? If yes could be a bad
relay or switch.

3) Locate the controlling relay (If the relay is working you will
probally hear a click when the swich is pressed to turn the light on
or off. Again consider labeling all relays). Count the number of low
voltage cables attached. This will tell you the number of switches
that control the light. Did you find them all and check them.
Disconnect all the low voltages wires at the relay in question. Do not
touch the line voltage wires. With all the low voltage wire removed,
you should have three unattached small (22, 24 awg) wires left
unconnected coming out the round cylinder (which protrudes out the
main electrical box. By try and error, identify the common wire (which
supples the low voltage). By touching and releasing either of the
other wires to the common wire the light should turn off or on. If the
light does not still on or off after breaking contact (ie all three
wires not touching) then you need a new relay. They are not cheap. If
everything works then a switch is stuck or bad or the low voltage
wiring has a short (unlikely).

4) The old non solid-state relay had a tendency to fail. I have been
told that the new ones are solid state and should last longer.

5) I wonder: should the hot side (the ac side) of the box have a
cover? I hope so.

With a little bit of effort, you can trouble shoot this system. I will
leave up to you to decide if you are comfortable replacing the relay.

If you have questions let me know, Free free to email me.

Philip

rap (RSMEINER) wrote in message ...
We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

"RSMEINER" wrote in message
...
Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
We found a master board with a ton of buttons on it behind the
curtins in the master bedroom. None of the buttons are marked
of course so it will be trial and error to figure out what is what.


Figuring out what button is for which light is much easier if you have a
small child handy. You stand there and push buttons and have small child
run from room to room to see what has turned on or off.

It took me forever to figure out which button was which on other master
panel. When we figured out what was what, I took an index card and made a
diagram of the panel and wrote above the area of each button what lights
were controlled by that button. I then put the index card on the wall above
the panel. Eventually you won't need it anymore, but we still have it on
the wall for when other people are here - somehow they like to be able to
turn the lights on and off without assistance G

The OP is lucky that his system has one central location for the relays. This
arrangement defeats one of the acclaimed benefits of a LV system - saving
wire.



I have found 1 location so far. Could be more.
This is the house from hell and it is just packed full of "stuff".


Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

In addition to what Philip said, it is a good idea to have someone stand
near the relays while the buttons are being pushed. That way you can
identify which relay activates a particular circuit. You should put tags on
each relay as you identify them.

I know from experience that troubleshooting Touchplate systems is very time
consuming because you must check two systems; the low voltage and the high
voltage in order to correctly identify the problem.

The relay boxes should have covers on them.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv



"Philip" wrote in message
m...
Randy,

My parents used to own a house with that system and I ended up being
the person to keep it running.

First: I am not a licensed electrician. I would like to think that any
electrician worth his salt could help you. It really is a simple
system.

Second: My advice is worth what you are paying and describes the
system I had which could be different then your system. If you are
uncomfortable with any of this call a pro!

I don't know how much you understand about low voltage systems so bear
with me. The system uses a relay to control the ac power. So the
device you see in the box is a relay. Out of one end is probably three
small gauge wires(common, off, on) which are connected to the wall
switchs. When you press the switch in the on position, the switch
causes two of the wires (on, common) to form a circuit which energizes
the circuit and causes the relay to close thus turning the power on to
the light. Pressing the switch in the off position cause two of the
wires (common, off) to form a circuit causing the relay to open
shutting the power off. The circuit is only active when you press it.
The relay stays in a latched state until the switched is press again.

If the light does not turn off:

1) Look for a stuck switch (consider labeling all the switches in the
house (yes a hell of a job) until you know what they all do). If a
switch is stuck then the on (or off) circuit is always energizes. Bear
in mind that with this system a switch could be anywhere.

2) Push the switch into the off position and hold it there. Does the
light go off then come back on when you let go? If yes could be a bad
relay or switch.

3) Locate the controlling relay (If the relay is working you will
probally hear a click when the swich is pressed to turn the light on
or off. Again consider labeling all relays). Count the number of low
voltage cables attached. This will tell you the number of switches
that control the light. Did you find them all and check them.
Disconnect all the low voltages wires at the relay in question. Do not
touch the line voltage wires. With all the low voltage wire removed,
you should have three unattached small (22, 24 awg) wires left
unconnected coming out the round cylinder (which protrudes out the
main electrical box. By try and error, identify the common wire (which
supples the low voltage). By touching and releasing either of the
other wires to the common wire the light should turn off or on. If the
light does not still on or off after breaking contact (ie all three
wires not touching) then you need a new relay. They are not cheap. If
everything works then a switch is stuck or bad or the low voltage
wiring has a short (unlikely).

4) The old non solid-state relay had a tendency to fail. I have been
told that the new ones are solid state and should last longer.

5) I wonder: should the hot side (the ac side) of the box have a
cover? I hope so.

With a little bit of effort, you can trouble shoot this system. I will
leave up to you to decide if you are comfortable replacing the relay.

If you have questions let me know, Free free to email me.

Philip

rap (RSMEINER) wrote in message
...
We recently inherited a house and are in the process of fixing up a
house so
it can be sold. We knew a few light switches weren't working so I
started
to try and track it down. Some lights were always on, some lights
wouldn't
come on. This is an old low-voltage system by Touch-Plate.

Finally found the problem in a closet in the basement.
View at your own risk.
These pictures could cause you to go blind or cause insanity.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Figuring out what button is for which light is much easier if you have a
small child handy. You stand there and push buttons and have small child
run from room to room to see what has turned on or off.

It took me forever to figure out which button was which on other master
panel. When we figured out what was what, I took an index card and made a
diagram of the panel and wrote above the area of each button what lights
were controlled by that button. I then put the index card on the wall above
the panel. Eventually you won't need it anymore, but we still have it on
the wall for when other people are here - somehow they like to be able to
turn the lights on and off without assistance G


My patience is bad enough, a small child would probably send me
over the edge. I will send the wife running instead.

In those pictures of the wiring from hell, there is a list of numbers
and locations. As none of it matched up with the boxes, I'm hoping
it matches up with the control panel upstairs. I can hope anyways.




Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Randy,

My parents used to own a house with that system and I ended up being
the person to keep it running.

First: I am not a licensed electrician. I would like to think that any
electrician worth his salt could help you. It really is a simple
system.

Second: My advice is worth what you are paying and describes the
system I had which could be different then your system. If you are
uncomfortable with any of this call a pro!

I don't know how much you understand about low voltage systems so bear
with me. The system uses a relay to control the ac power. So the
device you see in the box is a relay. Out of one end is probably three
small gauge wires(common, off, on) which are connected to the wall
switchs. When you press the switch in the on position, the switch
causes two of the wires (on, common) to form a circuit which energizes
the circuit and causes the relay to close thus turning the power on to
the light. Pressing the switch in the off position cause two of the
wires (common, off) to form a circuit causing the relay to open
shutting the power off. The circuit is only active when you press it.
The relay stays in a latched state until the switched is press again.

If the light does not turn off:

1) Look for a stuck switch (consider labeling all the switches in the
house (yes a hell of a job) until you know what they all do). If a
switch is stuck then the on (or off) circuit is always energizes. Bear
in mind that with this system a switch could be anywhere.

2) Push the switch into the off position and hold it there. Does the
light go off then come back on when you let go? If yes could be a bad
relay or switch.

3) Locate the controlling relay (If the relay is working you will
probally hear a click when the swich is pressed to turn the light on
or off. Again consider labeling all relays). Count the number of low
voltage cables attached. This will tell you the number of switches
that control the light. Did you find them all and check them.
Disconnect all the low voltages wires at the relay in question. Do not
touch the line voltage wires. With all the low voltage wire removed,
you should have three unattached small (22, 24 awg) wires left
unconnected coming out the round cylinder (which protrudes out the
main electrical box. By try and error, identify the common wire (which
supples the low voltage). By touching and releasing either of the
other wires to the common wire the light should turn off or on. If the
light does not still on or off after breaking contact (ie all three
wires not touching) then you need a new relay. They are not cheap. If
everything works then a switch is stuck or bad or the low voltage
wiring has a short (unlikely).

4) The old non solid-state relay had a tendency to fail. I have been
told that the new ones are solid state and should last longer.

5) I wonder: should the hot side (the ac side) of the box have a
cover? I hope so.

With a little bit of effort, you can trouble shoot this system. I will
leave up to you to decide if you are comfortable replacing the relay.

If you have questions let me know, Free free to email me.

Philip

Thanks Philip. Will probably be emailing you.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

040811 1412 - RSMEINER posted:

If you have a large house, those low voltage remote switching systems are
really great, and, as noted, in a master bedroom, a selector switch and
button arrangement can be installed to turn on or off just about any light
in the house or outside lights. It is a shame that someone has wired such a
mess as illustrated, but, and again, as noted, it is not a disaster, and it
can be repaired.

A remote low voltage switching system would be extremely desirable in the
case of long corridors in large buildings to control the corridor lighting
from several different places rather than using the usual 3-way and 4-way
lighting switching systems to reduce the voltage drop on the long runs of
lighting wiring.



Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
We found a master board with a ton of buttons on it behind the
curtins in the master bedroom. None of the buttons are marked
of course so it will be trial and error to figure out what is what.

Thanks

Randy

I installed a low voltage switching system in a large house that I had a few
years back and used a ratchet type relay. Pulse it once and it ratchets on,
and pulse it again and it ratchets off. It used just two control wires, and
was rated for 20 amps; 24 volt control. I made a pulse control circuit
board that produced a DC pulse of around 36 volts and then quickly decayed.
This would eliminate double pulsing in case a push button happened to make
double contact on one push. I used the round,white doorbell push buttons in
single gang stainless steel plates around the house. One of the plates,
which controlled some outside lights, and kitchen, entry, and basement
lights, was a single gang with six buttons in it. The kids had a time
trying to remember which button worked which light. The higher buttons
worked the high outside lights, and lower buttons worked the basement
lights. The central buttons worked the kitchen and landing lights. Easy.
In the master bedroom and kitchen I had a one gang plate with one button and
a selector switch to select the relay and the button to engage it, mostly
for outside lights for security purposes. I had a panel made at a local tin
shop and used aluminum angle and punched holes in it and placed rubber
grommets to set the relays into. This separated the high voltage from the
low voltage in the panel. I used 22 guage paired wiring -- brown/tan -- and
had no problem with voltage drop. One run was around two hundred feet of
wire out to the garage to work an outside light. The 36 volt DC pulse
wasn't on the wire long enough to create a problem, and the relay, which was
in the garage in a separate box pulsed on and off as demanded.

I thought it was a neat system. It worked really well. It was safe, and
there was no maintenance to it.

Tracey wrote:

"RSMEINER" wrote in message
...

Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
We found a master board with a ton of buttons on it behind the
curtins in the master bedroom. None of the buttons are marked
of course so it will be trial and error to figure out what is what.



Figuring out what button is for which light is much easier if you have a
small child handy. You stand there and push buttons and have small child
run from room to room to see what has turned on or off.

We borrowed walkie-talkies from our neighbor's kid to do this. Cell
phones are even better.

FurPaw

It took me forever to figure out which button was which on other master
panel. When we figured out what was what, I took an index card and made a
diagram of the panel and wrote above the area of each button what lights
were controlled by that button. I then put the index card on the wall above
the panel. Eventually you won't need it anymore, but we still have it on
the wall for when other people are here - somehow they like to be able to
turn the lights on and off without assistance G

Some of ours were marked with label-tape when we moved in, but they
weren't all correct. Nor were the circuit breaker labels. We ended up
having to remap the entire layout. But that paid off handsomely later
in time saved troubleshooting.

FurPaw

indago wrote:

040811 1412 - RSMEINER posted:


If you have a large house, those low voltage remote switching systems are
really great, and, as noted, in a master bedroom, a selector switch and
button arrangement can be installed to turn on or off just about any light
in the house or outside lights. It is a shame that someone has wired such a
mess as illustrated, but, and again, as noted, it is not a disaster, and it
can be repaired.

A remote low voltage switching system would be extremely desirable in the
case of long corridors in large buildings to control the corridor lighting
from several different places rather than using the usual 3-way and 4-way
lighting switching systems to reduce the voltage drop on the long runs of
lighting wiring.



Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
We found a master board with a ton of buttons on it behind the
curtins in the master bedroom. None of the buttons are marked
of course so it will be trial and error to figure out what is what.

Thanks

Randy


I installed a low voltage switching system in a large house that I had a few
years back and used a ratchet type relay. Pulse it once and it ratchets on,
and pulse it again and it ratchets off. It used just two control wires, and
was rated for 20 amps; 24 volt control. I made a pulse control circuit
board that produced a DC pulse of around 36 volts and then quickly decayed.
This would eliminate double pulsing in case a push button happened to make
double contact on one push. I used the round,white doorbell push buttons in
single gang stainless steel plates around the house. One of the plates,
which controlled some outside lights, and kitchen, entry, and basement
lights, was a single gang with six buttons in it. The kids had a time
trying to remember which button worked which light. The higher buttons
worked the high outside lights, and lower buttons worked the basement
lights. The central buttons worked the kitchen and landing lights. Easy.
In the master bedroom and kitchen I had a one gang plate with one button and
a selector switch to select the relay and the button to engage it, mostly
for outside lights for security purposes. I had a panel made at a local tin
shop and used aluminum angle and punched holes in it and placed rubber
grommets to set the relays into. This separated the high voltage from the
low voltage in the panel. I used 22 guage paired wiring -- brown/tan -- and
had no problem with voltage drop. One run was around two hundred feet of
wire out to the garage to work an outside light. The 36 volt DC pulse
wasn't on the wire long enough to create a problem, and the relay, which was
in the garage in a separate box pulsed on and off as demanded.

I thought it was a neat system. It worked really well. It was safe, and
there was no maintenance to it.

I hope you left thorough documentation behind for the next owners! One
of the problems with our low-voltage house was that there were NO
circuit layouts or any other sort of documentation beyond a few
mislabeled switches.

FurPaw

We borrowed walkie-talkies from our neighbor's kid to do this. Cell
phones are even better.

FurPaw

Without walkie talkies, I can scream at my wife.
Certain satisfaction in that these days. The house from hell
belonged to her parents.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner

Update: I think we have now found an electrition who has
worked on this type and brand of low-voltage stuff.

Time to celebrate.



Randy
http://members.aol.com/rsmeiner