"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:45:52 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:16:25 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:41 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 20:43, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:47:37 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 19:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:17:30 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 16:19, Richard wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:49, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:44, Frank wrote:
On 11/10/2018 10:35 AM, GB wrote:

snip

I smell JWS has nym shifted again.


Indeed, he has. And, as you can see from the post he made at
the
same
time as you, answering one inane question just gives him scope
to
ask
a lot of even sillier ones.

Well, as you were first to bite...

It was a teasing question that the pillock asked.

No, I actually want to know why. As yet, no sensible reason has
been
given.

TBH I have never used my shower pull switch other than to swap
the
shower and I installed the first shower in 1999.

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the
consumer
unit for that.

I could have done but it is on a shared RCD.

That in itself probably breaks some silly regulation.

No regs broken.

But you are a steaming great ****.

I'm a sensible ****.

You're also a steaming great **** when straight from
a hot shower in winter in that frigid island of yours.

I don't have hot showers.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

I'm not a girl.

Corse you are, only girls and poofters shave their legs.

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:48:16 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:18:56 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:58 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 10/11/2018 15:35, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord
on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if
you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it
anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's
a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before
helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

I wonder why there is a requirement that the switch indicate whether
it
is
on or off even when there is no power, i.e. pull switches need a 0/1
indicator (or similar), not just a neon?

So you can see if its off when it has been turned off in the CU and
you are about to turn it on again in the CU. A neon can't do that.

Under what circumstance would you need this?

If you have been working on the shower, have turned it off in the CU
to do that, and want to be next to the shower when you turn it on
again so you can burn it off again if it looks like you have ****ed up
what you have done and want to stop it destroying itself so you
can fix what you ****ed up before turning it on again.

Then remember whether you turned the isolator switch off first.

Not necessarily possible if it died and you turned it off to fix it.

Anyway the above doesn't work when the switch is in the hall.

But does when it isnt. It doesn't need to have a pull cord when
its in the hall and you can see the position of the switch.

Easy, turn it on and listen for an explosion, if there is one, you did it
wrong.

And if there isnt, you may still have done it wrong.

Turn it off and buy a new shower.

Makes more sense to turn it on when closer and turn
it off again and redo it properly when there is a problem.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:04:58 -0500, "Retired, another obviously brain
damaged, troll-feeding, senile Yankietard, blathered:


What we in the US have to understand is the British seem to put a switch
on everything.

What you senile Yankietards have yet to understand is that you are
constantly being taken in by a mentally challenged sociopathic Scottish
troll! But your senility seems to prevent you from realizing anything! BG

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 18:41:58 GMT, DerbyBorn, another braindamaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:

It would be like turning off
your microwave oven at the wall every time you'd finished cooking.

But you can if you want to or need to.

The ONLY thing he "can" and "wants" to, is to bait all you senile idiots on
these groups! And so far he was VERY successful again!

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 11:19:15 -0500, , the disgusting,
troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered again:


What is "electric" in the shower in the first place?

Oh, shut your stupid, troll-cock-sucking gob finally, you disgusting senile
Yankietard! tsk

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:56:04 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:45:52 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:16:25 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:41 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 20:43, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:47:37 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 19:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:17:30 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 16:19, Richard wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:49, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:44, Frank wrote:
On 11/10/2018 10:35 AM, GB wrote:

snip

I smell JWS has nym shifted again.


Indeed, he has. And, as you can see from the post he made at
the
same
time as you, answering one inane question just gives him scope
to
ask
a lot of even sillier ones.

Well, as you were first to bite...

It was a teasing question that the pillock asked.

No, I actually want to know why. As yet, no sensible reason has
been
given.

TBH I have never used my shower pull switch other than to swap
the
shower and I installed the first shower in 1999.

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the
consumer
unit for that.

I could have done but it is on a shared RCD.

That in itself probably breaks some silly regulation.

No regs broken.

But you are a steaming great ****.

I'm a sensible ****.

You're also a steaming great **** when straight from
a hot shower in winter in that frigid island of yours.

I don't have hot showers.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

I'm not a girl.

Corse you are, only girls and poofters shave their legs.

********. anyone who doesn't want to look like an ape.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 11:52:04 -0500, , the disgusting,
troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered again:

Strange.

Could it be you are about to catch on? NO! It CAN'T be! You are just TOO
senile! LOL

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:49:08 -0500, Dr Mallard, yet another mentally
deficient, troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


When was the last time a policeman inspected this?

The police don't inspect receptacles, that's usually the medical examiner's job.

I believe ALL you troll-feeding senile idiots here need your senile heads
examined! LOL

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:35:38 +0000, GB
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

Sounds like a "widowmaker"shower in some backwater. Those things are
illegal for good reason in most "civilized" or "developed" countries,
as well as in the USA.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 13:58:22 -0500, , the disgusting,
troll-feeding senile Yankietard, blathered again:



When was the last time a policeman inspected this?

Typically when the house was built or remodeled.

Are you sure, senile idiot? Senilely sure? BG

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:44:46 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:35:38 -0000, GB wrote:

On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

And how many times has this ever actually happened?

And why are we therefore not forbidden to have showers when nobody else is home?

And why can't they make showers which are guaranteed not to electrocute you?

Most of the world does not use elrctric point of use heater
"widowmaker" showers.

And why can't the other person just switch the shower off on its own switch?

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:43:08 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:13:55 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:35:25 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 10:33:19 AM UTC-5, Steven Watkins
wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can you please describe the situation more fully. Does this switch
turn
off
the water, or does it turn off electricity (such as for a light in the
shower compartment)?

It turns off the electrical heating of the water in the shower.

Some not in england go even further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjA0aee07k

I can't understand how that can work with no earth.

Basically there is far less water between the active
and neutral than between the active and any earth
that the person in the shower can be in contact
with even with metal water supply pipes and taps.

Irrelevant.

Nope.

As I said (incorrectly) below, since the mains can supply a large amount of current, drawing 20 amps through the element doesn't drop the voltage much at the live end.

Think of it as two resistors in series (the element and the person).

Nope, they arent in series if there is an element.

I meant parallel.

You have live at one end of the element, 240V. This is free to conduct
through a few inches of water to the shower head holes, then through the
person underneath.

In practice the resistance that way is quite high, even
if the person in the shower is holding a metal tap
which has an earthed metal water pipe behind it.

I just looked up the conductivity of water and I agree, you'd get I think about half a mA. So why do people say dropping a hair dryer into the bath would kill you? You need over 50mA to kill you.

Having the element conduct electricity from that 240V point to neutral
doesn't change the voltage by much at the 240V end,

Correct.

so the same current will flow through the person underneath.

No it wont, because the resistance thru the water is much higher.

Is the water coming out of the shower when unearthed not at about 120
volts

Nope, most of europe and china are 240V

I was assuming the middle of the element was close to the outlet.

That really doesn't matter given the high resistance of the water.

(the average of the heating element voltage)?

There is no heating element. The
current flows thru the water itself.

Your video showed a coiled wire, this is the element.

Some others have no element.

That would give you more than a tingle.

In fact it doesn't.

But there is a reason that wimps call them suicide showers.

It wouldn't bother me using one.

It clearly doesn't with most europeans and chinese either.

Because they don't have our ****ed up healthy and softy ****e.

I'm just wondering why you don't get a full electric shock

Because the resistance of the water is surprisingly high.

instead of the tingle in the head that people claim to have had from
unearthed ones.

They wouldn't normally be earthed unless it's a shower
in a bath and even then obviously not with an acrylic bath.

But the drain is what's earthed.

If you were stood in your shower, and someone introduced a live conductor
in the water stream above you, you'd get a ****ing big jolt surely?

No you don't, because the resistance of the
water is a lot higher than you might think.

Let's say you grab a live conductor while your bare feet are earthed. We can agree that would give you a ****ing big shock? Since we're composed primarily of water, surely that proves water can conduct quite a bit? Or is it because of salt inside us? In which case you'd only get a shock form the shower if your feet were almost on the drain (quite likely) and the shower head was close to your head.

Plenty in europe and china heat water in a cup
by putting a couple of electrodes connected to
the mains active and neutral directly in the water.

That wasn't that uncommon in britain at one time either.

Clearly quite dangerous tho if you grab the electrodes.

I set something like that up once (with a diode) to generate hydrogen. Even at 12V, if I stuck my finger in the middle (of a cup), I could feel it, so at 240V I would have thought it would fry me.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 18:12:01 -0000, Brainless & Daft, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered again:


No idea but in old persons showers there is often a kind of vertical wire
secured at the bottom that is pulled if the person has a fall and cannot get
up.
Brian

The troll thanks you for sucking his cock once more, Brainless!

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer unit
for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you can
physically remove a fuse and keep it with you while you are working on the
appliance, safe in the knowledge that almost certainly no power can be
restored. A circuit breaker can be restored to the on position by someone
who doesn't know that it is off for a reason.

I heard of a case years ago of a woman who called out an electrician. The
electrician turned off one circuit and started work. The husband got home
from work, saw that the ring main was off, thought it had tripped and turned
it back on. The electrician died even though the RCD tripped within the
regulation time, probably because it was an hand-to-hand across-the-chest
shock and he had had a heart attack previously which left him more
susceptible.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:10:19 -0000, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:35:38 +0000, GB
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

Sounds like a "widowmaker"shower in some backwater. Those things are
illegal for good reason in most "civilized" or "developed" countries,
as well as in the USA.

It's illegal to have an electric shower in the USA? I doubt it.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:13:34 -0000, NY wrote:

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer unit
for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you can
physically remove a fuse and keep it with you while you are working on the
appliance, safe in the knowledge that almost certainly no power can be
restored. A circuit breaker can be restored to the on position by someone
who doesn't know that it is off for a reason.

The other advantage is no nuisance trips. That's one of the main reasons why I still have fuses in my house. That and I see no point in replacing the consumer unit with circuit breakers. My tradesman neighbour is constantly called out to work out why houses keep tripping for no reason. It's often just something tiny leaking a little bit of current to earth.

I heard of a case years ago of a woman who called out an electrician. The
electrician turned off one circuit and started work. The husband got home
from work, saw that the ring main was off, thought it had tripped and turned
it back on. The electrician died even though the RCD tripped within the
regulation time, probably because it was an hand-to-hand across-the-chest
shock and he had had a heart attack previously which left him more
susceptible.

So RCDs aren't that good then. Anyway, they don't protect against live to neutral shocks, which is what my neighbour got when he was up a ladder fixing a light. No harm from the electricity (healthy people don't die from 240V), but he did sprain his ankle falling off the ladder.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:57:53 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:48:16 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:18:56 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:58 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 10/11/2018 15:35, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord
on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if
you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it
anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's
a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before
helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

I wonder why there is a requirement that the switch indicate whether
it
is
on or off even when there is no power, i.e. pull switches need a 0/1
indicator (or similar), not just a neon?

So you can see if its off when it has been turned off in the CU and
you are about to turn it on again in the CU. A neon can't do that.

Under what circumstance would you need this?

If you have been working on the shower, have turned it off in the CU
to do that, and want to be next to the shower when you turn it on
again so you can burn it off again if it looks like you have ****ed up
what you have done and want to stop it destroying itself so you
can fix what you ****ed up before turning it on again.

Then remember whether you turned the isolator switch off first.

Not necessarily possible if it died and you turned it off to fix it.

Anyway the above doesn't work when the switch is in the hall.

But does when it isnt. It doesn't need to have a pull cord when
its in the hall and you can see the position of the switch.

Easy, turn it on and listen for an explosion, if there is one, you did it
wrong.

And if there isnt, you may still have done it wrong.

But that wrongness isn't so urgent.

Turn it off and buy a new shower.

Makes more sense to turn it on when closer and turn
it off again and redo it properly when there is a problem.

Makes even more sense to do the repair properly in the first place.

On 11/10/2018 5:13 PM, NY wrote:
"Steven Watkins" wrote in message news

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer unit for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you can physically remove a fuse and keep it with you while you are working on the appliance, safe in the knowledge that almost certainly no power can be restored. A circuit breaker can
be restored to the on position by someone who doesn't know that it is off for a reason.

I heard of a case years ago of a woman who called out an electrician. The electrician turned off one circuit and started work. The husband got home from work, saw that the ring main was off, thought it had tripped and turned it back on. The electrician
died even though the RCD tripped within the regulation time, probably because it was an hand-to-hand across-the-chest shock and he had had a heart attack previously which left him more susceptible.

The husband must have been a real "maroon".* Apparently seeing the Sparky's Electric Service van in the driveway not a big enough clue? =-O

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:56:04 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:45:52 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:16:25 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:41 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 20:43, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:47:37 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 19:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:17:30 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 16:19, Richard wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:49, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:44, Frank wrote:
On 11/10/2018 10:35 AM, GB wrote:

snip

I smell JWS has nym shifted again.


Indeed, he has. And, as you can see from the post he made at
the
same
time as you, answering one inane question just gives him
scope
to
ask
a lot of even sillier ones.

Well, as you were first to bite...

It was a teasing question that the pillock asked.

No, I actually want to know why. As yet, no sensible reason has
been
given.

TBH I have never used my shower pull switch other than to swap
the
shower and I installed the first shower in 1999.

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the
consumer
unit for that.

I could have done but it is on a shared RCD.

That in itself probably breaks some silly regulation.

No regs broken.

But you are a steaming great ****.

I'm a sensible ****.

You're also a steaming great **** when straight from
a hot shower in winter in that frigid island of yours.

I don't have hot showers.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

I'm not a girl.

Corse you are, only girls and poofters shave their legs.

********.

Your sig is sposed to be last with a line with just -- on it in front of it,
poofter.

anyone who doesn't want to look like an ape.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that's saying something.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:37:29 -0000, George wrote:

On 11/10/2018 5:13 PM, NY wrote:
"Steven Watkins" wrote in message news

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer unit for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you can physically remove a fuse and keep it with you while you are working on the appliance, safe in the knowledge that almost certainly no power can be restored. A circuit breaker can
be restored to the on position by someone who doesn't know that it is off for a reason.

I heard of a case years ago of a woman who called out an electrician. The electrician turned off one circuit and started work. The husband got home from work, saw that the ring main was off, thought it had tripped and turned it back on. The electrician
died even though the RCD tripped within the regulation time, probably because it was an hand-to-hand across-the-chest shock and he had had a heart attack previously which left him more susceptible.

The husband must have been a real "maroon". Apparently seeing the Sparky's Electric Service van in the driveway not a big enough clue? =-O

Maybe he lived in one of those dodgy areas where nobody has their own driveway, and the electrician was parked some distance away?

And why was someone with a heart condition being an electrician?

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:05:05 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 18:58:22 -0000, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:02:17 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 16:52:04 -0000, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 16:26:12 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 16:19:15 -0000, wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:33:18 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on the ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if you've managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's a switch on the shower itself.

What is "electric" in the shower in the first place?

The heating element, and in low water pressure areas, possibly a pump.

Strange. We just have central water heaters and pressurized plumbing.
The water heater is required to be bonded and there is enough metal
surface area to bond the water.

We tend to have gas powered boilers that heat the water for sinks and the radiators. But for some reason not the shower - no idea why as they're a similar power rating.

No switching devices or receptacles are allowed in the shower space
and any lights are required to be 8 feet up with a water resistant
"shower trim".

When was the last time a policeman inspected this?

Typically when the house was built or remodeled.

You invite someone in to admire your remodelling?! Do you inform someone to check if you've fitted a new lightbulb correctly aswell?

I don't but when you hire someone, it is usually a good idea to have
it inspected. There are plenty of shady contractors out there.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:42:14 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:56:04 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:45:52 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:16:25 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:41 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 20:43, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:47:37 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 19:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:17:30 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 16:19, Richard wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:49, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:44, Frank wrote:
On 11/10/2018 10:35 AM, GB wrote:

snip

I smell JWS has nym shifted again.


Indeed, he has. And, as you can see from the post he made at
the
same
time as you, answering one inane question just gives him
scope
to
ask
a lot of even sillier ones.

Well, as you were first to bite...

It was a teasing question that the pillock asked.

No, I actually want to know why. As yet, no sensible reason has
been
given.

TBH I have never used my shower pull switch other than to swap
the
shower and I installed the first shower in 1999.

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the
consumer
unit for that.

I could have done but it is on a shared RCD.

That in itself probably breaks some silly regulation.

No regs broken.

But you are a steaming great ****.

I'm a sensible ****.

You're also a steaming great **** when straight from
a hot shower in winter in that frigid island of yours.

I don't have hot showers.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

I'm not a girl.

Corse you are, only girls and poofters shave their legs.

********.

Your sig is sposed to be last with a line with just -- on it in front of it,
poofter.

I don't have a sig.

anyone who doesn't want to look like an ape.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that's saying something.

Look at an orangutan. Look at yourself. Which has more hair? Which is evolved more?

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:43:08 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:13:55 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:35:25 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



wrote in message
...
On Saturday, November 10, 2018 at 10:33:19 AM UTC-5, Steven Watkins
wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord
on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can you please describe the situation more fully. Does this switch
turn
off
the water, or does it turn off electricity (such as for a light in
the
shower compartment)?

It turns off the electrical heating of the water in the shower.

Some not in england go even further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjA0aee07k

I can't understand how that can work with no earth.

Basically there is far less water between the active
and neutral than between the active and any earth
that the person in the shower can be in contact
with even with metal water supply pipes and taps.

Irrelevant.

Nope.

As I said (incorrectly) below, since the mains can supply a large amount
of current, drawing 20 amps through the element doesn't drop the voltage
much at the live end.

Irrelevant to the risk of electrocution.

Think of it as two resistors in series (the element and the person).

Nope, they arent in series if there is an element.

I meant parallel.

They arent in parallel either, because the element has
active and neutral at each end. The water is between
the element and earth.

You have live at one end of the element, 240V. This is free to conduct
through a few inches of water to the shower head holes, then through the
person underneath.

In practice the resistance that way is quite high, even
if the person in the shower is holding a metal tap
which has an earthed metal water pipe behind it.

I just looked up the conductivity of water and I agree, you'd get I think
about half a mA.

So why do people say dropping a hair dryer into the bath would kill you?

They don't have a clue.

You need over 50mA to kill you.

And even with an earthed metal bath and the hair drier
ending up close to say a leg that's flat on the bottom
of the bath, wouldn't produce 50ma thru the heart.

Its basically just an urban myth that dropping a hair
drier into a bath will kill you.

But someone did manage to kill themselves with a
fake iphone charger in that situation. Very rare tho.

Having the element conduct electricity from that 240V point to neutral
doesn't change the voltage by much at the 240V end,

Correct.

so the same current will flow through the person underneath.

No it wont, because the resistance thru the water is much higher.

Is the water coming out of the shower when unearthed not at about 120
volts

Nope, most of europe and china are 240V

I was assuming the middle of the element was close to the outlet.

That really doesn't matter given the high resistance of the water.

(the average of the heating element voltage)?

There is no heating element. The
current flows thru the water itself.

Your video showed a coiled wire, this is the element.

Some others have no element.

That would give you more than a tingle.

In fact it doesn't.

But there is a reason that wimps call them suicide showers.

It wouldn't bother me using one.

It clearly doesn't with most europeans and chinese either.

Because they don't have our ****ed up healthy and softy ****e.

Some of them do, particularly the krauts.

I'm just wondering why you don't get a full electric shock

Because the resistance of the water is surprisingly high.

instead of the tingle in the head that people claim to have had from
unearthed ones.

They wouldn't normally be earthed unless it's a shower
in a bath and even then obviously not with an acrylic bath.

But the drain is what's earthed.

Not necessarily with plastic waste pipes.

If you were stood in your shower, and someone introduced a live
conductor
in the water stream above you, you'd get a ****ing big jolt surely?

No you don't, because the resistance of the
water is a lot higher than you might think.

Let's say you grab a live conductor while your bare feet are earthed. We
can agree that would give you a ****ing big shock?

Not necessarily. Some people are a lot less conductive than others.

Since we're composed primarily of water, surely that proves water can
conduct quite a bit?

Its more complicated than that, particularly with how
conductive the skin on the palms of your hands are.

Or is it because of salt inside us?

Yes.

In which case you'd only get a shock form the shower if your feet were
almost on the drain (quite likely)

But it doesn't matter if plastic drain pipe
was used and it mostly would have been.

The problem is more with metal
taps and metal water supply pipes.

and the shower head was close to your head.

That isnt really a major consideration.

Plenty in europe and china heat water in a cup
by putting a couple of electrodes connected to
the mains active and neutral directly in the water.

That wasn't that uncommon in britain at one time either.

Clearly quite dangerous tho if you grab the electrodes.

I set something like that up once (with a diode) to generate hydrogen.
Even at 12V, if I stuck my finger in the middle (of a cup), I could feel
it, so at 240V I would have thought it would fry me.

Nope. The current needs to go thru your heart to fry you.

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:10:19 -0000, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:35:38 +0000, GB
wrote:

On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if
you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

Sounds like a "widowmaker"shower in some backwater. Those things are
illegal for good reason in most "civilized" or "developed" countries,
as well as in the USA.

It's illegal to have an electric shower in the USA? I doubt it.

She's talking about the suicide shower head in Big Clive's video.

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:13:34 -0000, NY wrote:

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer
unit
for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you can
physically remove a fuse and keep it with you while you are working on
the
appliance, safe in the knowledge that almost certainly no power can be
restored. A circuit breaker can be restored to the on position by someone
who doesn't know that it is off for a reason.

The other advantage is no nuisance trips. That's one of the main reasons
why I still have fuses in my house. That and I see no point in replacing
the consumer unit with circuit breakers. My tradesman neighbour is
constantly called out to work out why houses keep tripping for no reason.
It's often just something tiny leaking a little bit of current to earth.

I heard of a case years ago of a woman who called out an electrician. The
electrician turned off one circuit and started work. The husband got home
from work, saw that the ring main was off, thought it had tripped and
turned
it back on. The electrician died even though the RCD tripped within the
regulation time, probably because it was an hand-to-hand across-the-chest
shock and he had had a heart attack previously which left him more
susceptible.

So RCDs aren't that good then. Anyway, they don't protect against live to
neutral shocks, which is what my neighbour got when he was up a ladder
fixing a light. No harm from the electricity (healthy people don't die
from 240V),

Some do actually.

but he did sprain his ankle falling off the ladder.

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:57:53 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:48:16 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:18:56 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:58 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
On 10/11/2018 15:35, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a
cord
on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock,
if
you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it
anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering,
there's
a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before
helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

I wonder why there is a requirement that the switch indicate
whether
it
is
on or off even when there is no power, i.e. pull switches need a
0/1
indicator (or similar), not just a neon?

So you can see if its off when it has been turned off in the CU and
you are about to turn it on again in the CU. A neon can't do that.

Under what circumstance would you need this?

If you have been working on the shower, have turned it off in the CU
to do that, and want to be next to the shower when you turn it on
again so you can burn it off again if it looks like you have ****ed
up
what you have done and want to stop it destroying itself so you
can fix what you ****ed up before turning it on again.

Then remember whether you turned the isolator switch off first.

Not necessarily possible if it died and you turned it off to fix it.

Anyway the above doesn't work when the switch is in the hall.

But does when it isnt. It doesn't need to have a pull cord when
its in the hall and you can see the position of the switch.

Easy, turn it on and listen for an explosion, if there is one, you did
it
wrong.

And if there isnt, you may still have done it wrong.

But that wrongness isn't so urgent.

Can still burn it out so you need a new one
and may not do any unfixable damage if
you notice it as soon as its switch on and
switch it off.

Turn it off and buy a new shower.

Makes more sense to turn it on when closer and turn
it off again and redo it properly when there is a problem.

Makes even more sense to do the repair properly in the first place.

Sure, but most have enough of a clue to realise that they arent perfect.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:47:37 +0000, ARW, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, driveled:


And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer
unit for that.

I could have done but it is on a shared RCD.

Sucking troll cock again, senile idiot? BG

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:41 +0000, ARW, the brain damaged, notorious,
troll-feeding senile idiot, driveled:


That in itself probably breaks some silly regulation.

No regs broken.

But you are a steaming great ****.

Ah, someone is catching on, AT LAST! G

"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:44:46 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:35:38 -0000, GB wrote:

On 10/11/2018 15:33, Steven Watkins wrote:
Why do houses have a switch to turn the shower off, either a cord on
the
ceiling or a switch in the hall?

Can't be for safety - if you're in the shower and get a shock, if
you've
managed to get out to reach the switch, you've got away from it anyway.

Can't be to isolate to work on it, there's a fusebox for that.

Don't need to turn it off when you're finished showering, there's a
switch on the shower itself.

If I answer this, do you promise to **** off?

It's so somebody not in the shower can isolate it quickly before helping
the poor bugger who is being electrocuted.

And how many times has this ever actually happened?

And why are we therefore not forbidden to have showers when nobody else is
home?

And why can't they make showers which are guaranteed not to electrocute
you?

Most of the world does not use elrctric point of use heater
"widowmaker" showers.

Most do allow what are usually called instant electrical hot
water heaters on showers as an alternative to stored hot water
that is heated electrically.

Widowmakers are a different thing entirely with
an electrical element in the shower head itself,
with the electrical connections to the element
actually in the water. Those are in fact allowed
in quite a bit of europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjA0aee07k

And why can't the other person just switch the shower off on its own
switch?

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:13:34 -0000, NY, yet another mentally deficient
troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:


And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer unit
for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you can

....and you could just shut your stupid gob and stop sucking him off, senile
sucker of troll cock'!

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 08:56:04 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


I'm not a girl.

Corse you are, only girls and poofters shave their legs.

....and only gay seniles like you keep sucking him off BECAUSE of his shaved
legs, senile cocksucker!

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 07:49:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

And I was a pillock for answering it. My apologies.

A Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.

Do that in the shower with it turned off to make it easier to clean up the
mess.

Seriously, heed your own advice, you useless senile cretin! Do yourself and
everyone who happens to know you the favour!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

FLUSH the stinking troll ****

....and much better air in here again!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:37:29 -0000, George
wrote:

On 11/10/2018 5:13 PM, NY wrote:
"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the consumer
unit for that.

About the only advantage of a fuse over a circuit breaker is that you
can physically remove a fuse and keep it with you while you are working
on the appliance, safe in the knowledge that almost certainly no power
can be restored. A circuit breaker can
be restored to the on position by someone who doesn't know that it is
off for a reason.

I heard of a case years ago of a woman who called out an electrician.
The electrician turned off one circuit and started work. The husband got
home from work, saw that the ring main was off, thought it had tripped
and turned it back on. The electrician
died even though the RCD tripped within the regulation time, probably
because it was an hand-to-hand across-the-chest shock and he had had a
heart attack previously which left him more susceptible.

The husband must have been a real "maroon". Apparently seeing the
Sparky's Electric Service van in the driveway not a big enough clue? =-O

Maybe he lived in one of those dodgy areas where nobody has their own
driveway, and the electrician was parked some distance away?

And why was someone with a heart condition being an electrician?

Likely because that happened as he got older.

The taxi driver who drove me home from the airport
after I had come back from the state capital after having
a stent after the heart attack had also had the same.

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 22:42:14 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:56:04 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:45:52 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 21:16:25 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 20:47:41 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 20:43, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:47:37 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 19:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:17:30 -0000, ARW

wrote:

On 10/11/2018 16:19, Richard wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:49, GB wrote:
On 10/11/2018 15:44, Frank wrote:
On 11/10/2018 10:35 AM, GB wrote:

snip

I smell JWS has nym shifted again.


Indeed, he has. And, as you can see from the post he made
at
the
same
time as you, answering one inane question just gives him
scope
to
ask
a lot of even sillier ones.

Well, as you were first to bite...

It was a teasing question that the pillock asked.

No, I actually want to know why. As yet, no sensible reason
has
been
given.

TBH I have never used my shower pull switch other than to
swap
the
shower and I installed the first shower in 1999.

And you could have just used the fuse/circuit breaker in the
consumer
unit for that.

I could have done but it is on a shared RCD.

That in itself probably breaks some silly regulation.

No regs broken.

But you are a steaming great ****.

I'm a sensible ****.

You're also a steaming great **** when straight from
a hot shower in winter in that frigid island of yours.

I don't have hot showers.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

I'm not a girl.

Corse you are, only girls and poofters shave their legs.

********.

Your sig is sposed to be last with a line with just -- on it in front of
it,
poofter.

I don't have a sig.

Obvious lie.

anyone who doesn't want to look like an ape.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that's saying something.

Look at an orangutan. Look at yourself. Which has more hair? Which is
evolved more?

Irrelevant to the fact that only girls and poofters shave their legs.

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 06:37:41 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

I know they're meant to, but I've still not seen a sensible reason why.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

But smart enough to make you senile idiot fall for EVERY SINGLE one of his
idiotic trolls! LOL

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

On 11/10/18 6:09 PM, Aaron wrote:
Widowmakers are a different thing entirely with
an electrical element in the shower head itself,
with the electrical connections to the element
actually in the water. Those are in fact allowed
in quite a bit of europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjA0aee07k

Christmas is coming up.Â* I might get one of these for the mother-in-law.

On Sat, 10 Nov 2018 17:11:37 -0500, Clare Snyder, another obviously brain
damaged, troll-feeding senile idiot, blathered:

And how many times has this ever actually happened?

And why are we therefore not forbidden to have showers when nobody else is home?

And why can't they make showers which are guaranteed not to electrocute you?

Most of the world does not use elrctric point of use heater

Most of the world doesn't fall for the Scottish attention whore's idiotic
baits either, troll-feeding senile idiot!

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 08:45:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

FLUSH yet more absolutely idiotic drivel by the two resident idiots

....and nothing's left!

--
Senile Rot about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 08:18:56 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

Under what circumstance would you need this?

If you have been working on the shower, have turned it off in the CU

The Scottish ******, attention whore and troll asks ...and the ****ed up
senile cocksucker delivers, EVERY TIME! LOL

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID: