Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

--
Britney Spears is pregnant. She plans to breast feed.
In other words, the child will have an abundant supply of artificial milk.

On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more
than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in
which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as usual. I'll
guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will be along shortly.

bm wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more
than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in
which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as usual. I'll
guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will be along shortly.



So you can switch it off when someone is dying from elocution in the
shower.

Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral. It also needs to be either
near enough the appliance that someone working on the appliance can see
(and stop!) somone going to turn it back on, or it needs a lock. So the
fuse in the main fusebox doesn't count - it's single pole and out of
sight (in practice with a fuse you can pull the fuse and put it in
your pocket, but it's still single pole and technically not an
isolator).

For most appliances, they have a plug. Unplugging meets all the
requirements for isolation. Appliances that don't have an accessible
plug need an isolator switch. That's usually a rocker switch in an
appropriate rating mounted next to the appliance. These aren't allowed
in a bathroom, though, so you have three choices:
a) A pull-cord isolator in the bathroom
b) A rocker switch isolator outside the bathroom, but still within sight
of someone working on the shower.
c) An isolator outside the bathroom that can be locked out.

The default choice seems to be a, though I would argue b is better if
possible.

Mike

bm wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as
usual. I'll guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will
be along shortly.

did you know that he has got a degree?
i do not have a degree, but i know the answer to his stupid question
phucker is 100% a ******

Mike Humphrey wrote in
o.uk:

Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live conductors - that is both line and neutral. It also needs to be
either near enough the appliance that someone working on the appliance
can see (and stop!) somone going to turn it back on, or it needs a
lock. So the fuse in the main fusebox doesn't count - it's single pole
and out of sight (in practice with a fuse you can pull the fuse and
put it in your pocket, but it's still single pole and technically not
an isolator).

For most appliances, they have a plug. Unplugging meets all the
requirements for isolation. Appliances that don't have an accessible
plug need an isolator switch. That's usually a rocker switch in an
appropriate rating mounted next to the appliance. These aren't allowed
in a bathroom, though, so you have three choices:
a) A pull-cord isolator in the bathroom
b) A rocker switch isolator outside the bathroom, but still within
sight of someone working on the shower.
c) An isolator outside the bathroom that can be locked out.

The default choice seems to be a, though I would argue b is better if
possible.

Mike

The thick cables can make the choice obvious!

"Mick" wrote in message
...
bm wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as
usual. I'll guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will
be along shortly.

did you know that he has got a degree?
i do not have a degree, but i know the answer to his stupid question
phucker is 100% a ******

Oh yes, I couldn't believe it either so I have this link -
http://s556.photobucket.com/user/bra...e.jpg.html?o=5
Not worth the paper it's written on, obviously. Then again, I've never seen
a Wodney degree (in hindsight).

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.



--
Adam

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:27:11 -0000, Mike Humphrey wrote:

Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral. It also needs to be either
near enough the appliance that someone working on the appliance can see
(and stop!) somone going to turn it back on, or it needs a lock. So the
fuse in the main fusebox doesn't count - it's single pole and out of
sight (in practice with a fuse you can pull the fuse and put it in
your pocket, but it's still single pole and technically not an
isolator).

For most appliances, they have a plug. Unplugging meets all the
requirements for isolation. Appliances that don't have an accessible
plug need an isolator switch. That's usually a rocker switch in an
appropriate rating mounted next to the appliance. These aren't allowed
in a bathroom, though, so you have three choices:
a) A pull-cord isolator in the bathroom
b) A rocker switch isolator outside the bathroom, but still within sight
of someone working on the shower.
c) An isolator outside the bathroom that can be locked out.

The default choice seems to be a, though I would argue b is better if
possible.

But why does it need to be isolated on a regular basis? With day to day operation, you switch off the shower with the switch on the shower itself. On the very rare occasion you need to repair or replace the shower, you simply remove the fuse from the fusebox, or switch off its breaker. Consider a television set, you don't unplug it or switch it off at the wall unless you're trying to replace/repair/move it.

--
A man goes home early and catches another man in bed with his wife.
He drags the naked man out of the house and into his garden shed.
There he secures man's penis in a vice and removes the handle, then starts to sharpen a knife.
The naked man shouts, "You're not going to cut it off are you?"
"No, you are," was the reply. "I'm going to set fire to the shed"

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, ARW wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Thought so, which is what I've read in some of the legal documents. Yet everybody seems to be fitting these switches.... Unless it's a greenie thing to stop power wastage from the LED/neon on the shower unit?!

--
You know you've spent too much time on the computer when you spill milk and the first thing you think is, 'Edit, Undo.'

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 02:45:38 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

bm wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more
than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in
which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as usual. I'll
guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will be along shortly.

So you can switch it off when someone is dying from elocution in the
shower.

I wouldn't, I'd pull them out. Give them a hard yank so they fall out even when you jump too. Same goes for a fire on the stove, you don't **** about turning it off, you get the flaming pan outside the house.

Anyway, people don't tend to die from electrocution in a shower, and those that do are probably dead before you get there.

--
He was deeply in love. When she spoke, he thought he heard bells, as if she were a dustcart reversing.

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:27:11 -0000, Mike Humphrey
wrote:
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to
have a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be
switched off any more than any other appliance? Apart from
maintainence once a decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the
fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live conductors - that is both line and neutral. It also needs to be
either near enough the appliance that someone working on the
appliance can see (and stop!) somone going to turn it back on, or it
needs a lock. So the fuse in the main fusebox doesn't count - it's
single pole and out of sight (in practice with a fuse you can pull
the fuse and put it in your pocket, but it's still single pole and
technically not an
isolator).

For most appliances, they have a plug. Unplugging meets all the
requirements for isolation. Appliances that don't have an accessible
plug need an isolator switch. That's usually a rocker switch in an
appropriate rating mounted next to the appliance. These aren't
allowed in a bathroom, though, so you have three choices:
a) A pull-cord isolator in the bathroom
b) A rocker switch isolator outside the bathroom, but still within
sight of someone working on the shower.
c) An isolator outside the bathroom that can be locked out.

The default choice seems to be a, though I would argue b is better if
possible.

But why does it need to be isolated on a regular basis? With day to
day operation, you switch off the shower with the switch on the
shower itself. On the very rare occasion you need to repair or
replace the shower, you simply remove the fuse from the fusebox, or
switch off its breaker. Consider a television set, you don't unplug
it or switch it off at the wall unless you're trying to
replace/repair/move it.


phucker = prick

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:21:04 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 02:45:38 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

bm wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more
than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in
which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as usual. I'll
guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will be along shortly.

So you can switch it off when someone is dying from elocution in the
shower.

I wouldn't, I'd pull them out. Give them a hard yank so they fall out even when you jump too. Same goes for a fire on the stove, you don't **** about turning it off, you get the flaming pan outside the house.

Such fires are often burning oil. Trust me, you don't want to carry a
burning pan of oil or fat anywhere, the damp towel trick actually
works within a few seconds as I found out when I had to do it when my
grandmother left the chip-pan unattended and I happened to arrive for
some lunch.
I agree that turning it off needn't be the first priority, unless it's
gas.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:21:04 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 02:45:38 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

bm wrote:
"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any more
than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade, in
which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as usual. I'll
guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will be along shortly.

So you can switch it off when someone is dying from elocution in the
shower.

I wouldn't, I'd pull them out. Give them a hard yank so they fall out even when you jump too. Same goes for a fire on the stove, you don't **** about turning it off, you get the flaming pan outside the house.

Such fires are often burning oil. Trust me, you don't want to carry a
burning pan of oil or fat anywhere,

I have and it works fine. Open door(s), pick up pan at arms length, carry carefully outside and place on the ground.

the damp towel trick actually
works within a few seconds as I found out when I had to do it when my
grandmother left the chip-pan unattended and I happened to arrive for
some lunch.

If there's a handy towel and sink in reach.

I agree that turning it off needn't be the first priority, unless it's
gas.

Doesn't matter if it's gas or not.

--
The gene pool could use a little chlorine.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
news:4r2dnaYNcvjia_bLnZ2dnUU78UednZ2d@brightview. co.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

I didn't know that, and even if I did I wouldn't have been able to
convince the bathroom fitters (pre Part P)

They fitted the pullcord isolator three inches away from the existing
light pullcord, the obvious place for it was in the corner behind the
door when it is open. I got them to move it but it needed a JB to
extend the cable which I would rather not have I the loft.

The other thing they insisted upon was a unswitched FCU for the
mirror light/shaver socket, even though it was fed from a 6A MCB. They
kindly left the 13A fuse in it as supplied.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:28:04 -0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

I didn't know that, and even if I did I wouldn't have been able to
convince the bathroom fitters (pre Part P)

They fitted the pullcord isolator three inches away from the existing
light pullcord, the obvious place for it was in the corner behind the
door when it is open. I got them to move it but it needed a JB to
extend the cable which I would rather not have I the loft.

The other thing they insisted upon was a unswitched FCU for the
mirror light/shaver socket, even though it was fed from a 6A MCB. They
kindly left the 13A fuse in it as supplied.

So much easier to fit things yourself, the way YOU want them. Why are you not doing so, considering you're in a DIY group?

--
Before you set out on a journey, ring your local radio station and say there's a teerrible congestion on your road. Everybody avoids it and it's clear for you! -- Jack Dee

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:28:04 -0000, Graham. wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

I didn't know that, and even if I did I wouldn't have been able to
convince the bathroom fitters (pre Part P)

They fitted the pullcord isolator three inches away from the existing
light pullcord, the obvious place for it was in the corner behind the
door when it is open. I got them to move it but it needed a JB to
extend the cable which I would rather not have I the loft.

The other thing they insisted upon was a unswitched FCU for the
mirror light/shaver socket, even though it was fed from a 6A MCB. They
kindly left the 13A fuse in it as supplied.

So much easier to fit things yourself, the way YOU want them. Why are you not doing so, considering you're in a DIY group?

--
Before you set out on a journey, ring your local radio station and say there's a teerrible congestion on your road. Everybody avoids it and it's clear for you! -- Jack Dee

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:28:04 -0000, Graham.
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

I didn't know that, and even if I did I wouldn't have been able to
convince the bathroom fitters (pre Part P)

They fitted the pullcord isolator three inches away from the existing
light pullcord, the obvious place for it was in the corner behind the
door when it is open. I got them to move it but it needed a JB to
extend the cable which I would rather not have I the loft.

The other thing they insisted upon was a unswitched FCU for the
mirror light/shaver socket, even though it was fed from a 6A MCB. They
kindly left the 13A fuse in it as supplied.

So much easier to fit things yourself, the way YOU want them.

Why are you not doing so, considering you're in a DIY group?

Presumably because like with most people he is
selective about what he DIYs and what he doesn't.

You are too, you didn't DIY the house you currently
occupy. I did mine on a bare block of land.

Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:28:04 -0000, Graham.
wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to
have a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be
switched off any more than any other appliance? Apart from
maintainence once a decade, in which case you pull the fuse in
the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate
all live conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

I didn't know that, and even if I did I wouldn't have been able to
convince the bathroom fitters (pre Part P)

They fitted the pullcord isolator three inches away from the existing
light pullcord, the obvious place for it was in the corner behind the
door when it is open. I got them to move it but it needed a JB to
extend the cable which I would rather not have I the loft.

The other thing they insisted upon was a unswitched FCU for the
mirror light/shaver socket, even though it was fed from a 6A MCB.
They kindly left the 13A fuse in it as supplied.

So much easier to fit things yourself, the way YOU want them. Why
are you not doing so, considering you're in a DIY group?

I can't resist this:
"What's a joist"?
(Peter Hucker)

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 17:57:32 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 15:28:04 -0000, Graham.
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 12:52:10 -0000, "ARW"
wrote:

"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have a
shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off any
more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade,
in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single
pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

I didn't know that, and even if I did I wouldn't have been able to
convince the bathroom fitters (pre Part P)

They fitted the pullcord isolator three inches away from the existing
light pullcord, the obvious place for it was in the corner behind the
door when it is open. I got them to move it but it needed a JB to
extend the cable which I would rather not have I the loft.

The other thing they insisted upon was a unswitched FCU for the
mirror light/shaver socket, even though it was fed from a 6A MCB. They
kindly left the 13A fuse in it as supplied.

So much easier to fit things yourself, the way YOU want them.

Why are you not doing so, considering you're in a DIY group?

Presumably because like with most people he is
selective about what he DIYs and what he doesn't.

You are too, you didn't DIY the house you currently
occupy. I did mine on a bare block of land.

I would have done if I thought it would have been cheaper. There's also the problem of mortgages.

After buying the house, I DIY absolutely everything.

--
In 1977, researchers detected a strong radio signal from space that lasted 72 seconds. It hasn't been detected since.

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch them.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible since you're in there fixing it).

--
Having swallowed the most amount of semen ever officially recorded Michelle Monaghan had 1.7 pints (0.96 liter) of semen pumped out of her stomach in Los Angeles in July 1991.

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"
wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to ground, not neutral to ground.

Anyway, if what you said was true, it could happen with any electrical item, as most things only have a live switched off.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

--
His wife had been killed in an accident and the police were questioning Finnegan.
"Did she say anything before she died?" asked the sergeant.
"She spoke without interruption for about forty years," said the Irishman.

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

Anyway, if what you said was true, it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

In your case it would be an opportunity too good to miss.

On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:39:28 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

Anyway, if what you said was true, it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

In your case it would be an opportunity too good to miss.

Says the most infamous person in the group.

--
For the really paranoid who want to destroy data there's nothing like taking the lid off the disk drive and rearranging the sectors with a hammer.

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line and
Neutral.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to earth, it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and utter failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

--
Three guys go to a ski lodge, and there aren't enough rooms, so they have to share a bed. In the middle of the night, the guy on the right wakes up and says, "I had this wild, vivid dream of getting a hand job!" The guy on the left wakes up, and unbelievably, he's had the same dream, too. Then the guy in the middle wakes up and says, "That's funny, I dreamt I was skiing!"

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:37:07 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers, since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids, tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

Too much paperwork.

--
We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful god, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes -- Gene Roddenberry

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:37:07 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence
once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate
all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and
a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have
another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will
most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line
and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and
utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers,
since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and
gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in
the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working
on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids,
tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is
impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

Too much paperwork.

They don't have to do any paperwork at all, just
dial 999 and tell them to take your corpse away.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:48:13 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:37:07 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence
once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate
all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral and
a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have
another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will
most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line
and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and
utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers,
since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and
gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in
the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're working
on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids,
tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is
impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

Too much paperwork.

They don't have to do any paperwork at all, just
dial 999 and tell them to take your corpse away.

Then the enquiries start.

--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and newsgroups are nothing like Shakespeare

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:48:13 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:37:07 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason
to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be
switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence
once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside
the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a
mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate
all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral
and
a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have
another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will
most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line
and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to
earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and
utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via
a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers,
since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and
gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in
the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're
working
on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids,
tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on
if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is
impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation
to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

Too much paperwork.

They don't have to do any paperwork at all, just
dial 999 and tell them to take your corpse away.

Then the enquiries start.

That's only a problem for those doing the enquirys.

Not a problem for those who cheered as you fried.

On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 00:31:51 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:48:13 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:37:07 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason
to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be
switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from maintainence
once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside
the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a
mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must isolate
all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral
and
a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have
another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you will
most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in Line
and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to
earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and
utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live via
a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers,
since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and
gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off in
the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're
working
on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids,
tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it on
if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is
impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their temptation
to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

Too much paperwork.

They don't have to do any paperwork at all, just
dial 999 and tell them to take your corpse away.

Then the enquiries start.

That's only a problem for those doing the enquirys.

Not a problem for those who cheered as you fried.

Not if your house is checked over and your shower confiscated etc for evidence.

--
What is the difference between mechanical engineers and civil engineers?
Mechanical engineers build weapons and civil engineers build targets.

On 12/12/2015 01:06, bm wrote:
It's to get some silly PHucker troll to ask stupid questions, as usual. I'll
guess that the other chuckle brother (silly Wodney) will be along shortly.

Why don't you just killfile them?

"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 00:31:51 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:48:13 -0000, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:37:07 -0000, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Tough Guy no. 1265" wrote in message
news On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 01:46:37 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 18:23, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 18:05:50 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 14/12/2015 16:01, Tough Guy no. 1265 wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:07:19 -0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 12/12/2015 12:52, ARW wrote:
"Mike Humphrey" wrote in message
o.uk...
Graham. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 23:29:35 -0000, "Tough Guy no. 1265"

wrote:

Had a look around on t'internet, seems to be no real reason
to
have
a shower cord in the bathroom. Why does it need to be
switched
off
any more than any other appliance? Apart from
maintainence
once
a
decade, in which case you pull the fuse in the fusebox.

Doesn't have to be a pullcord, can be a dolly switch outside
the
bathroom.
I don't trust pullcord switches, even if they have a
mechanical
tell-tail, so I would always isolate upstream as well.

Every appliance needs an isolator, and an isolator must
isolate
all
live
conductors - that is both line and neutral.

On a TN system there is no requirement to isolate the neutral
and
a
single pole MCB is allowed to be the isolator.

Indeed, although if you only have single pole switching, then
you
need
to have a suitable place to allow disconnection of the neutral
as
well
(537.2.1.7).

One could do this at the CU, but it seems preferable to have
another
place to do that.

Why would you need to remove a 0V wire? They don't hurt when
you
touch
them.

Because in reality it won't be 0V. Short it to earth, and you
will
most
likely trip the RCD potentially de-energising other circuits.

Then the RCD is unfit for purpose. It's supposed to detect live
to
ground, not neutral to ground.

No, its supposed to detect an imbalance between current flow in
Line
and
Neutral.

No, that's what it does, in an effort to detect stray current to
earth,
it's the easy option and as has just been pointed out a complete and
utter
failure.

Anyway, if what you said was true,

It is.

it could happen with any electrical
item, as most things only have a live switched off.

No, because switching something off by disconnection of the live
via
a
switch does not also connect the Neutral to Earth.

It leaves the neutral available.

(its also good practice IMHO have local isolation for showers,
since
this avoids the whole issue of needing to lock our the MCB, and
gives
the consumer confidence that they have a way of turning it off
in
the
case of an emergency)

Lock? You switch it off (in the VERY unlikely event you're
working
on
repairing or replacing the shower). If you have a wife or kids,
tell
them to leave it off, not that they'd have a reason to turn it
on
if
they weren't trying to have a shower and failing (which is
impossible
since you're in there fixing it).

If you were fixing the shower, I could understand their
temptation
to
turn it back on!

It's best not to electrocute someone who's doing you a favour.

But they would be doing themselves favour...

They'd not get a working shower.

Corse they would when your corpse is removed and
they get someone else to fix it.

Too much paperwork.

They don't have to do any paperwork at all, just
dial 999 and tell them to take your corpse away.

Then the enquiries start.

That's only a problem for those doing the enquirys.

Not a problem for those who cheered as you fried.

Not if your house is checked over and your shower confiscated etc for
evidence.

Doesn't happen.