I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was meant to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the 18650s, about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't actually get more power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they not make LiIon cells that small very well?

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:27:39 -0000, Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson",
"Steven ******", etc.), the pathological resident idiot and attention whore
of all the uk ngs, blathered again:

FLUSH the abnormal sociopathic attention whore's latest idiotic,
attention-baiting sick bull**** unread again

--
about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID:

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID:

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID:

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID:

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a ****ing moronic motorist."
MID:

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID:

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID:

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID:

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the **** poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID:

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: 20170519215057.56a1f1d4@Mars

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: l-september.org

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID:

--
asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID:

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID:

--
Richard to pathetic ****** Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID:

--
about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID:

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a ******** with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID:

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID:

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID:

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 14:49:11 +0000, anal_m, the absolutely braindead,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled again:


I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

....and braindead troll-feeding senile idiot no.1, anal_m himself, appears to
be the first to swallow the abnormal Scottish sow's latest idiotic bait,
hook, line and sinker again! BG

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 15:03:28 +0000, Scott, another braindamaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled:


Including VAT :-)

....and troll-feeding senile idiot no.2 appeared on the scene to swallow the
abnormal attention whore's latest idiotic bait, hook, line and sinker,
again! BG

On 02/11/2018 14:27, Steven Watkins wrote:
But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming
higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher).

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:49:11 -0000, alan_m wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:27, Steven Watkins wrote:
But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming
higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher).

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say 2500.. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews say you really get that. But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

I was trying to get hold of something to power my camera for as long as possible, while carrying as few spares as possible, so I thought I'd get some decent AA Lithiums and use blanks to make the right voltage. Seems I'll just have to stick to Nickel, which for some reason is ****ing expensive! Is the world running out of Nickel or something? I spent £12.50 on 4 AA Panasonic 2700mAH batteries. I remember they used to be about £1 each.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:58:22 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:49:11 -0000, alan_m wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:27, Steven Watkins wrote:
But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming
higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher).

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say 2500. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got all the money back.

Including VAT :-)

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 15:03:28 -0000, Scott wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:58:22 -0000, "Steven Watkins"
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 14:49:11 -0000, alan_m wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:27, Steven Watkins wrote:
But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming
higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher).

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say 2500. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got all the money back.

Including VAT :-)

No idea about VAT. VAT is not a simple tax as stated by the government when they introduced it on April Fools day.

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500.* I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500.* Official tests I've
found on websites agree.* Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that.* But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

Cheers
--
Clive

Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was
meant to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the
18650s, about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones
claiming higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't
actually get more power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they
not make LiIon cells that small very well?

Shirley a man with a degree in microelectronics would know about these
things?
Just another troll by phucker.

"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was meant
to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the 18650s,
about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming higher
are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't actually get more
power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they not make LiIon cells
that small very well?

Presumably not. If you look up big clives teardowns, they are basically
rolled up
and stuffed into a round cylinder and that gets harder with the smaller
ones.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 16:53:15 -0000, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've
found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that. But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

But if you consider a Panasonic 18500, at 3Ah and 3.7V, it's twice the energy per volume. They just don't seem to get the higher charge density in the smaller AA size.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 16:53:15 -0000, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've
found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that. But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

Which makes the AA LiIons pointless, unless you need the extra voltage for some reason.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 17:27:00 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was
meant to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the
18650s, about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones
claiming higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't
actually get more power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they
not make LiIon cells that small very well?

Shirley a man with a degree in microelectronics would know about these
things?
Just another troll by phucker.

It's chemistry, not electronics, you ****ing simpleton.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:26:40 -0000, Rod Speed wrote:



"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was meant
to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the 18650s,
about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming higher
are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't actually get more
power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they not make LiIon cells
that small very well?

Presumably not. If you look up big clives teardowns, they are basically
rolled up
and stuffed into a round cylinder and that gets harder with the smaller
ones.

Panasonic don't even make the AA versions.

I guess not, since they tend not to. I'd imagine it has to do with space for
the electrolyte and a thick enough conductor not to get too hot and get
damaged. I'm sure somebody will find a way though as its a popular size. Is
there any better life span or abuse olerance in one over the other?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Steven Watkins" wrote in message
news
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was meant
to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the 18650s,
about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming higher
are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't actually get more
power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they not make LiIon cells
that small very well?

Why was the AA LiIon size ever invented if it's no good? I've only ever come across LiIon intended products (like torches) that take the larger 18650 size. I only tried the little ones as NiMH replacements. As far as I know, the only advantage to LiIon over NiMH is the increased capacity, and you don't get that with the smaller size.


On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 19:40:41 -0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I guess not, since they tend not to. I'd imagine it has to do with space for
the electrolyte and a thick enough conductor not to get too hot and get
damaged. I'm sure somebody will find a way though as its a popular size. Is
there any better life span or abuse olerance in one over the other?
Brian

On 02/11/2018 20:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
As far as I know, the only advantage to LiIon over NiMH is the increased
capacity,
They are far better at not self discharging

NiMh if left a few months flatten and destroy themselves

Li-Ion is good for a year or more

--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:40:41 -0000, Brainless & Daft, blathered again:

I guess not, since they tend not to.

But it won't stop you idiots from blathering inanely about it! BG

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 05:26:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Presumably not.

Right! But it's good stuff to talk about it in your known idiotic manner
anyway, isn't it? BG

--
Java Jive to senile Rot:
You're getting there, it's clear that you've now reached the level of
"Nyah nyah nanyah nyah!", but surely you can be even more juvenile than
that?
MID:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 20:51:55 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 02/11/2018 20:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
As far as I know, the only advantage to LiIon over NiMH is the increased
capacity,
They are far better at not self discharging

NiMh if left a few months flatten and destroy themselves

Li-Ion is good for a year or more

That's no longer true, since about 10 years ago when Uniross came out with Hybrio, and other manufacturers with similar products. Basically they're just better made NiMH. They don't significantly self discharge, in fact when you buy them they come already charged. Myself I have AA NiMH which I've left on a shelf for 2 years and they still measure as pretty much full.

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:53:15 +0000, Clive Arthur, yet another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:



About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

Cheers

He WILL cheer ...for every senile idiot who runs along to suck him off! BG

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 21:34:53 +0000, Clive Arthur, yet another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blathered:


But if you consider a Panasonic 18500, at 3Ah and 3.7V, it's twice the
energy per volume.* They just don't seem to get the higher charge
density in the smaller AA size.

ITYM "Thanks, I'd overlooked that, and 'pitiful' was clearly wrong".

He meant, "suck me off again, you are that retarded"!

Cheers

He WILL cheer, once you've finished the job he's assigned to you, senile
idiot!

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 20:51:55 +0000, The Natural Idiot blathered again:


They are far better at not self discharging

NiMh if left a few months flatten and destroy themselves

Li-Ion is good for a year or more

The Natural Idiot, again, has no clue into what trap he walked! LOL

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018 21:46:29 +0000, The Natural Idiot blathered again:

That's no longer true, since about 10 years ago when Uniross came out
with Hybrio, and other manufacturers with similar products.* Basically
they're just better made NiMH.* They don't significantly self discharge,
in fact when you buy them they come already charged.* Myself I have AA
NiMH which I've left on a shelf for 2 years and they still measure as
pretty much full.

Well thats news to me and welcome news at that.

No, it's NOT "news"! It's PHucker trolling and baiting you once more,
Natural Idiot! LOL

On 02 Nov 2018 21:55:40 +0000 (GMT), Theo, another troll-feeding, senile
idiot, blathered:


The problem

The ONLY problem here is that you senile idiots keep walking into the
abnormal sociopathic Scottish sow's traps, TIME and AGAIN!

On 02/11/2018 18:40, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 16:53:15 -0000, Clive Arthur
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as
fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh
batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500.* I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500.* Official tests I've
found on websites agree.* Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that.* But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

But if you consider a Panasonic 18500, at 3Ah and 3.7V, it's twice the
energy per volume.* They just don't seem to get the higher charge
density in the smaller AA size.

ITYM "Thanks, I'd overlooked that, and 'pitiful' was clearly wrong".

Cheers
--
Clive

Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was
meant to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the
18650s, about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones
claiming higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't
actually get more power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they
not make LiIon cells that small very well?

**** of with your trolling Hucker.

On 02/11/2018 21:09, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 20:51:55 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 20:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
As far as I know, the only advantage to LiIon over NiMH is the increased
capacity,
They are far better at not self discharging

NiMh if left a few months flatten and destroy themselves

Li-Ion is good for a year or more

That's no longer true, since about 10 years ago when Uniross came out
with Hybrio, and other manufacturers with similar products.Â* Basically
they're just better made NiMH.Â* They don't significantly self discharge,
in fact when you buy them they come already charged.Â* Myself I have AA
NiMH which I've left on a shelf for 2 years and they still measure as
pretty much full.

Well thats news to me and welcome news at that.

Hated NiMh for that exact reason


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 22:30:09 +0000, Dim Streater, another brain damaged,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled:


Funny, I never noticed much drain on the original NiMH (probably lost about
25% in 3 months). NiCad, yes, they were appalling.

You were nodding off then.

He wasn't, then. He's baiting you NOW, senile idiot! tsk

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:34:53 -0000, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 02/11/2018 18:40, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 16:53:15 -0000, Clive Arthur
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as
fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh
batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've
found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that. But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

But if you consider a Panasonic 18500, at 3Ah and 3.7V, it's twice the
energy per volume. They just don't seem to get the higher charge
density in the smaller AA size.

ITYM "Thanks, I'd overlooked that, and 'pitiful' was clearly wrong".

No, by pitiful I meant "no better than the preceding technology".

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:44:23 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was
meant to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the
18650s, about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones
claiming higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't
actually get more power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they
not make LiIon cells that small very well?

**** of with your trolling Hucker.

It was a genuine question. **** you.

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:46:29 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 02/11/2018 21:09, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 20:51:55 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 20:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
As far as I know, the only advantage to LiIon over NiMH is the increased
capacity,
They are far better at not self discharging

NiMh if left a few months flatten and destroy themselves

Li-Ion is good for a year or more

That's no longer true, since about 10 years ago when Uniross came out
with Hybrio, and other manufacturers with similar products. Basically
they're just better made NiMH. They don't significantly self discharge,
in fact when you buy them they come already charged. Myself I have AA
NiMH which I've left on a shelf for 2 years and they still measure as
pretty much full.

Well thats news to me and welcome news at that.

Hated NiMh for that exact reason

Funny, I never noticed much drain on the original NiMH (probably lost about 25% in 3 months). NiCad, yes, they were appalling.

In uk.d-i-y Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was meant
to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the 18650s,
about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming higher
are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't actually get more
power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they not make LiIon cells
that small very well?

The problem is cylindrical batteries are based on a roll of cathode, anode
and separator, all tightly rolled up.

The capacity of the battery is proportional to the area of the roll, which
is proportional to the length of the unrolled material. The length you can
fit in a cylinder is roughly proportional to r^2.

The cell wall thickness is about 0.2mm, which makes an 18650 have 17.6mm for
the roll and a 14500 have 14.1mm. By r^2, an 18650 would have 1.56 times
the capacity of a hypothetical 14650. But it's a 14500, which means an
18650 can fit 2.03x as much roll area. That would mean about 1500mAh in a
14500. The rest I suspect is overheads, and not trying so hard (much higher
demand for high power density in a larger form factor).

Also, don't forget lithium batteries are 3.7V nominal compared with 1.2V for
NiMH. So you get 3x the Wh.

Theo

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:44:23 -0000, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was
meant to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the
18650s, about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones
claiming higher are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't
actually get more power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they
not make LiIon cells that small very well?

**** of with your trolling Hucker.

Is your F key not working to god?

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:55:40 -0000, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Steven Watkins wrote:
I've got some very good 18650 Panasonics - 3Ah, but there seems to be
nothing worth getting at the 14500 (AA) size. I thought LiIon was meant
to hold more power per volume, which is certainly true of the 18650s,
about double an NiMH. But 14500s are all 850mAh (the ones claiming higher
are Chinese fakes and aren't higher). So you don't actually get more
power out of an AA sized LiIon than NiMH. Can they not make LiIon cells
that small very well?

The problem is cylindrical batteries are based on a roll of cathode, anode
and separator, all tightly rolled up.

The capacity of the battery is proportional to the area of the roll, which
is proportional to the length of the unrolled material. The length you can
fit in a cylinder is roughly proportional to r^2.

The cell wall thickness is about 0.2mm, which makes an 18650 have 17.6mm for
the roll and a 14500 have 14.1mm. By r^2, an 18650 would have 1.56 times
the capacity of a hypothetical 14650. But it's a 14500, which means an
18650 can fit 2.03x as much roll area. That would mean about 1500mAh in a
14500. The rest I suspect is overheads, and not trying so hard (much higher
demand for high power density in a larger form factor).

I see, that explains why Panasonic (the only make I've found that actually has the capacity they state on the label) don't even bother making them.

Also, don't forget lithium batteries are 3.7V nominal compared with 1.2V for
NiMH. So you get 3x the Wh.

Yes, but the AA size LiIon has 1/3 of the Ah, so the Wh is identical.

On 02/11/2018 21:53, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:34:53 -0000, Clive Arthur
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 18:40, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 16:53:15 -0000, Clive Arthur
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as
fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh
batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500.* I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500.* Official tests I've
found on websites agree.* Got them free, I moaned at the seller and
got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that.* But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

But if you consider a Panasonic 18500, at 3Ah and 3.7V, it's twice the
energy per volume.* They just don't seem to get the higher charge
density in the smaller AA size.

ITYM "Thanks, I'd overlooked that, and 'pitiful' was clearly wrong".

No, by pitiful I meant "no better than the preceding technology".

OK, thanks. I've updated my dictionaries with that latest definition,
you silly ****[1].

[1] An intelligent and humble person (2018).

Cheers
--
Clive

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 22:12:24 -0000, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 02/11/2018 21:53, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:34:53 -0000, Clive Arthur
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 18:40, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 16:53:15 -0000, Clive Arthur
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 14:58, Steven Watkins wrote:

snipped

I purchased some torches with 14500s claimed to be 2400mAh which I
didn't believe. I doubt that they were even close to 850/900mAh as
fully
charged they didn't last long in the torch. Replacement 900mAh
batteries
lasted much longer.

I have some GTL batteries (also called GIF) (Chinese ****) that say
2500. I tested them (bulb, ammeter) and got 500. Official tests I've
found on websites agree. Got them free, I moaned at the seller and
got
all the money back.

Decent makes like Efest, Sony, Sanyo are all quoted as 850 and reviews
say you really get that. But 850 is pitiful, as NiMH gives 2700.

About the same energy, given that the lithium cells are about three
times the voltage of the NiMH.

But if you consider a Panasonic 18500, at 3Ah and 3.7V, it's twice the
energy per volume. They just don't seem to get the higher charge
density in the smaller AA size.

ITYM "Thanks, I'd overlooked that, and 'pitiful' was clearly wrong".

No, by pitiful I meant "no better than the preceding technology".

OK, thanks. I've updated my dictionaries with that latest definition,
you silly ****[1].

[1] An intelligent and humble person (2018).

The point of LiIon was to supercede / improve on preceding technology. In the case of AA size it failed miserably, as it exceeded capacity by 0%.

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 10:22:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



All of my torches which take those also have a plastic frame
that takes AAs instead. I only use the 18650s. I do have some
torches that go on your head that take AA cells and not 18650.

Nobody gives a **** about your torches, Ozzietard! tsk

--
Marland addressing bull****ting senile Rot:
"Stay in your wet paper bag you thick twit."
MID:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 22:30:09 -0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Steven Watkins
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 21:46:29 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 21:09, Steven Watkins wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2018 20:51:55 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 02/11/2018 20:39, Steven Watkins wrote:
As far as I know, the only advantage to LiIon over NiMH is the increased
capacity,
They are far better at not self discharging

NiMh if left a few months flatten and destroy themselves

Li-Ion is good for a year or more

That's no longer true, since about 10 years ago when Uniross came out
with Hybrio, and other manufacturers with similar products. Basically
they're just better made NiMH. They don't significantly self discharge,
in fact when you buy them they come already charged. Myself I have AA
NiMH which I've left on a shelf for 2 years and they still measure as
pretty much full.

Well thats news to me and welcome news at that.

Hated NiMh for that exact reason

Funny, I never noticed much drain on the original NiMH (probably lost about
25% in 3 months). NiCad, yes, they were appalling.

You were nodding off then. Typically if one charged up an NiMH and left
it, it was flat when needed for anything.

Mine don't, and I still have loads of them from the pre-eneloop era. Since all eneloop did was to improve the purity of the chemicals, perhaps there were already non-self discharging batteries around before then.

However, Eneloops
(f'rinstance) don't self discharge and are indeed sold charged up.
We're slowly binning all our other NiMH as the only use one can make of
them is in those garden lights with a tiny solar panel on top which can
charge them up during the day. Even then the lights don't stay on very
long in winter.

I've got ones from before eneloop came out which I charge after they run out, then leave them in a box. They typically stay in there for a few months, then are used just fine in torches, cameras, all sorts. I've in fact never known an NiMH discharge by itself unless it's very old and has been used a lot, by which time it's usually at the leaking stage anyway.