About four months ago, we replaced our electric water heater. Last weekend
the pressure relief valve started dripping small amounts of water
intermittently. Some research/analysis resulted in a diagnosis of high
pressure due to a one-way valve between us and the street; sure enough, it
drips worse when we don't use water for long periods. And it only started
recently because we have an Aprilaire humidifier (the kind that has a
trickle of fresh water running through it whenever it's running), and of
course just turned that off for the spring.

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby

My concern is whether option (2) -- easy, cheap, etc. -- is a good idea
long-term. Will constant slight "blowing" of the valve cause it to fail
catastrophically?

I found this on one site:
"T&P valves are strictly an emergency measure and should be replaced every 2
years. At 180 psi , the temperature that the T&P valve opens, damage can
occur to your system and you may have voided the warranty on your water
heater."
and:
"Plumbing codes require that thermal expansion control be addressed in
plumbing systems. A temperature and pressure relief valve is not considered
a thermal expansion device. This is because when water is allowed to
continuously drip from the T&P relief valve, minerals from the water can
build up on the valve, eventually blocking it. This blockage can render the
T&P valve useless and potentially lead to hot water heater explosions."

Obviously these concern me! I just don't want to $pend more dollar$ if I
don't have to, though it sure sounds like I do have to.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,

....phsiii

Remove dots from userid to reply wrote:

About four months ago, we replaced our electric water heater. Last weekend
the pressure relief valve started dripping small amounts of water
intermittently. Some research/analysis resulted in a diagnosis of high
pressure due to a one-way valve between us and the street; sure enough, it
drips worse when we don't use water for long periods. And it only started
recently because we have an Aprilaire humidifier (the kind that has a
trickle of fresh water running through it whenever it's running), and of
course just turned that off for the spring.

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Put the exp tank on; they are inexpensive and required.

If you just let it drip, the whole system is over-pressured,
which can be damaging. Plus, the relief valve will soon wear out.

Jim

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

Actually, where I live, it's required by city code to have a pipe running
from the tpr to within a few inches of the floor. Oddly, they don't care
much if you have a drain for that pipe to run to...

- Wm


"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

William Morris wrote:

Actually, where I live, it's required by city code to have a pipe running
from the tpr to within a few inches of the floor. Oddly, they don't care
much if you have a drain for that pipe to run to...

- Wm

The requirement is there so that discharge of scalding water/steam
from the T & P is less likely to strike someone standing nearby.

Codes usually require that a "suitable" drain be provided for
the discharge but the locals may be convenientally overlooking that.
Jim

According to Remove dots from userid to reply :
So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby

My concern is whether option (2) -- easy, cheap, etc. -- is a good idea
long-term. Will constant slight "blowing" of the valve cause it to fail
catastrophically?

Maybe not, but it'll stop closing properly... So (2) is a bad idea

3) a springloaded shock absorber will also work (the expansion is actually
_very_ little), and use up less room.

4) An upwards facing capped off chunk of pipe will work for a few months, but
you have to reconstruct the airpocket every so often.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Yeah, but run a leaking one to a drain?

"William Morris" wrote in
message ...
Actually, where I live, it's required by city code to have a pipe running
from the tpr to within a few inches of the floor. Oddly, they don't care
much if you have a drain for that pipe to run to...

- Wm


"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote
in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

maybe just turn the temp down a bit.

as a side note, next time consider a tankless or 'on demand' water heater.
many benefits to be had.

randy

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water heater. Last
weekend
the pressure relief valve started dripping small amounts of water
intermittently. Some research/analysis resulted in a diagnosis of high
pressure due to a one-way valve between us and the street; sure enough, it
drips worse when we don't use water for long periods. And it only started
recently because we have an Aprilaire humidifier (the kind that has a
trickle of fresh water running through it whenever it's running), and of
course just turned that off for the spring.

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby

My concern is whether option (2) -- easy, cheap, etc. -- is a good idea
long-term. Will constant slight "blowing" of the valve cause it to fail
catastrophically?

I found this on one site:
"T&P valves are strictly an emergency measure and should be replaced every
2
years. At 180 psi , the temperature that the T&P valve opens, damage can
occur to your system and you may have voided the warranty on your water
heater."
and:
"Plumbing codes require that thermal expansion control be addressed in
plumbing systems. A temperature and pressure relief valve is not
considered
a thermal expansion device. This is because when water is allowed to
continuously drip from the T&P relief valve, minerals from the water can
build up on the valve, eventually blocking it. This blockage can render
the
T&P valve useless and potentially lead to hot water heater explosions."

Obviously these concern me! I just don't want to $pend more dollar$ if I
don't have to, though it sure sounds like I do have to.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,

...phsiii

"HeatMan" wrote in message k.net...
Yeah, but run a leaking one to a drain?

"William Morris" wrote in
message ...
Actually, where I live, it's required by city code to have a pipe running
from the tpr to within a few inches of the floor. Oddly, they don't care
much if you have a drain for that pipe to run to...

- Wm


"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote
in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?





The TPR valve should -always- be run to a drain, code or no code.
Just picture what happens if the valve opens and fails to close again
(yes it happens). You now have an open connection to the service line
that will continue to spew water until someone shuts it off. No
drain?? Where do you think the water is going to go??

Harry K

"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...
"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

Sears troubleshooting guy (they did the install, had a good sale on at the
time I bought it). He was interesting: had to be 75, obviously been doing
this since Hector was a pup. But he didn't figure out why it had just
started, I did, so I felt smarrrt (as my kids would say).

....phsiii

"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
k.net...
Yeah, but run a leaking one to a drain?


The TPR valve should -always- be run to a drain, code or no code.
Just picture what happens if the valve opens and fails to close again
(yes it happens). You now have an open connection to the service line
that will continue to spew water until someone shuts it off. No
drain?? Where do you think the water is going to go??

Harry K

First off, local codes (read LOCAL) do not require the relief valve to be
run to a drain. The code requires the pipe to be run to a point a few
inches above the ground. Running the pipe to a drain is a plus.

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP to run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there is a problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem. You need to
learn how to read.

Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If it's in an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it does happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't you think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small drain?

While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there to be some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message news:ddNmc.46945$NZ4.25775@lakeread05...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...
"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote
in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

Sears troubleshooting guy (they did the install, had a good sale on at the
time I bought it). He was interesting: had to be 75, obviously been doing
this since Hector was a pup. But he didn't figure out why it had just
started, I did, so I felt smarrrt (as my kids would say).

...phsiii


I don't care if he was 7 or 75, piping a leaking relief valve to a floor
drain is criminal.

On Thu, 6 May 2004 11:26:23 -0400, "Remove dots from userid to reply"
wrote:

About four months ago, we replaced our electric water heater. Last weekend
the pressure relief valve started dripping small amounts of water
intermittently. Some research/analysis resulted in a diagnosis of high
pressure due to a one-way valve between us and the street; sure enough, it
drips worse when we don't use water for long periods. And it only started
recently because we have an Aprilaire humidifier (the kind that has a
trickle of fresh water running through it whenever it's running), and of
course just turned that off for the spring.

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby

My concern is whether option (2) -- easy, cheap, etc. -- is a good idea
long-term. Will constant slight "blowing" of the valve cause it to fail
catastrophically?

I found this on one site:
"T&P valves are strictly an emergency measure and should be replaced every 2
years. At 180 psi , the temperature that the T&P valve opens, damage can
occur to your system and you may have voided the warranty on your water
heater."
and:
"Plumbing codes require that thermal expansion control be addressed in
plumbing systems. A temperature and pressure relief valve is not considered
a thermal expansion device. This is because when water is allowed to
continuously drip from the T&P relief valve, minerals from the water can
build up on the valve, eventually blocking it. This blockage can render the
T&P valve useless and potentially lead to hot water heater explosions."

Obviously these concern me! I just don't want to $pend more dollar$ if I
don't have to, though it sure sounds like I do have to.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts,

...phsiii


I had this problem a few years back. I replaced the valve on the
ho****er heater, which stopped the dripping for a few days. I then
replaced the PVR - the one that is between the street and me - and
have had no leaks since. I put an expansion tank in to meet code, that
was a 10 minute job at the most.

"HeatMan" wrote in message link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
k.net...
Yeah, but run a leaking one to a drain?


The TPR valve should -always- be run to a drain, code or no code.
Just picture what happens if the valve opens and fails to close again
(yes it happens). You now have an open connection to the service line
that will continue to spew water until someone shuts it off. No
drain?? Where do you think the water is going to go??

Harry K

First off, local codes (read LOCAL) do not require the relief valve to be
run to a drain. The code requires the pipe to be run to a point a few
inches above the ground. Running the pipe to a drain is a plus.


I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do that?

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP to run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there is a problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem. You need to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to connect it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic department
tho.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If it's in an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it does happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't you think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'. Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??

While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there to be some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

Harry K

"HeatMan" wrote in message ink.net...
"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message news:ddNmc.46945$NZ4.25775@lakeread05...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...
"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote
in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

Sears troubleshooting guy (they did the install, had a good sale on at the
time I bought it). He was interesting: had to be 75, obviously been doing
this since Hector was a pup. But he didn't figure out why it had just
started, I did, so I felt smarrrt (as my kids would say).

...phsiii


I don't care if he was 7 or 75, piping a leaking relief valve to a floor
drain is criminal.

I have to agree if he doesn't fix the valve first. As to running it
to a drain. That is only good practice as long as you leave an air
gap.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
k.net...
Yeah, but run a leaking one to a drain?


The TPR valve should -always- be run to a drain, code or no code.
Just picture what happens if the valve opens and fails to close again
(yes it happens). You now have an open connection to the service line
that will continue to spew water until someone shuts it off. No
drain?? Where do you think the water is going to go??

Harry K

First off, local codes (read LOCAL) do not require the relief valve to
be
run to a drain. The code requires the pipe to be run to a point a few
inches above the ground. Running the pipe to a drain is a plus.


I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP to run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem. You need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to connect it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif towards the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If it's in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't you think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'. Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??

No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you that idea?

While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there to be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the the new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's what keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

"Harry K" wrote in message
m...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote
in
message news:ddNmc.46945$NZ4.25775@lakeread05...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
. net...
"Remove dots from userid to reply"
wrote
in
message news:AOsmc.44267$NZ4.9695@lakeread05...
About four months ago, we replaced our electric water

So. The question is: do I *need* an expansion tank? I was given
two
options:
1) Expansion tank.
2) Just run a tube from the valve to the floor drain nearby


Who told you to run the 'tube' from the valve to the floor?

Sears troubleshooting guy (they did the install, had a good sale on at
the
time I bought it). He was interesting: had to be 75, obviously been
doing
this since Hector was a pup. But he didn't figure out why it had just
started, I did, so I felt smarrrt (as my kids would say).

...phsiii


I don't care if he was 7 or 75, piping a leaking relief valve to a floor
drain is criminal.

I have to agree if he doesn't fix the valve first. As to running it
to a drain. That is only good practice as long as you leave an air
gap.

Wow! He agrees with what I say!

Amazing.

"HeatMan" wrote in message link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
k.net...
Yeah, but run a leaking one to a drain?


The TPR valve should -always- be run to a drain, code or no code.
Just picture what happens if the valve opens and fails to close again
(yes it happens). You now have an open connection to the service line
that will continue to spew water until someone shuts it off. No
drain?? Where do you think the water is going to go??

Harry K

First off, local codes (read LOCAL) do not require the relief valve to
be
run to a drain. The code requires the pipe to be run to a point a few
inches above the ground. Running the pipe to a drain is a plus.


I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Ah, that is clear as mud. Because -your- codes don't that means -no
codes do-? I can see it now as my local inspector downchecks my work.
"but heatman's code doesn't require that". Your logic has a BIG hole
in it.

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP to run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem. You need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to connect it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif towards the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


And that comment is supposed to mean something in response to what I
posted?? Logic man, logic. Of course it is better but it is not the
-best- solution.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If it's in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't you think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'. Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??


No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you that idea?

Well your first -personal attack (for no reason)- on me was to the
effect that leading it to a drain was bad business. Gee, maybe that
gave me the idea that you don't approve of it.


While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there to be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the the new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's what keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

Try answering the question instead of going off into the bushes.
Again, pointing the pipe -up- drains the valve seat just how? I have
never seen a pipe pointing up that drains anything unless it is by
siphon. Why do I think that you have read something into the code
that isn't there?

Here is another question. Do you agree that the TPR valve should be
piped to a drain (using an air gap of course)???

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...

I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Ah, that is clear as mud. Because -your- codes don't that means -no
codes do-? I can see it now as my local inspector downchecks my work.
"but heatman's code doesn't require that". Your logic has a BIG hole
in it.

You are an inbred moron, aren't you? It's not MY code, it's the code for my
municipality....

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP to
run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem. You
need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to connect it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif towards
the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


And that comment is supposed to mean something in response to what I
posted?? Logic man, logic. Of course it is better but it is not the
-best- solution.

YOU talk about logic? 99.9% of the people who know anything about this
understood what i was saying. I don't care if you do.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If it's
in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't you
think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small
drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'. Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??


No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you that
idea?

Well your first -personal attack (for no reason)- on me was to the
effect that leading it to a drain was bad business. Gee, maybe that
gave me the idea that you don't approve of it.

I am licensed by the state I live in. Are you(except for your license to be
a moron, not to be confused with the Stormin Moron)? This has not been a
personal attack, unless you are thin skinned enough to beleive it is..


While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve
drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there to
be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe
Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the the
new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's what
keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

Try answering the question instead of going off into the bushes.
Again, pointing the pipe -up- drains the valve seat just how? I have
never seen a pipe pointing up that drains anything unless it is by
siphon. Why do I think that you have read something into the code
that isn't there?

There is a couple of fitting available, one is called a 'tee.' You pipe the
releif into the tee and provide a way for the water to drain off, usually a
3/8" sink valve. This will allow the water to drain off the seat (providing
it was installed at a slight downward pitch) with out spraying high pressure
hot water all over a person that stands near the valve. Nibco makes an
elbow that has a drain on it. To me, that looks a lot neater and I will
take the rubber gasket out that seals it. That means there is no way the HO
can seal the pipe off and let water sit on the seat. (of course, I don't do
this if the water tank is in an area that can be damaged by water on the
floor. I also explain all functions the the HO before I submit the bill and
answer any questions.)


Here is another question. Do you agree that the TPR valve should be
piped to a drain (using an air gap of course)???

If there is an adequate drain nearby, yes. For those still following this
thread, Harry is refering to an air gap not as a special fitting, but an
actual space between the end of the releif and the drain opening. That way
you can see the water coming out the releif and know you have a problem.

If you have noticed, I have always referred to the fittings as a relief or
relief valve instead of a 'TPR.' Do you know why that is?

"HeatMan" wrote in message link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...

I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Ah, that is clear as mud. Because -your- codes don't that means -no
codes do-? I can see it now as my local inspector downchecks my work.
"but heatman's code doesn't require that". Your logic has a BIG hole
in it.

You are an inbred moron, aren't you? It's not MY code, it's the code for my
municipality....

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP to
run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem. You
need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to connect it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif towards
the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


And that comment is supposed to mean something in response to what I
posted?? Logic man, logic. Of course it is better but it is not the
-best- solution.

YOU talk about logic? 99.9% of the people who know anything about this
understood what i was saying. I don't care if you do.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If it's
in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't you
think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small
drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'. Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??


No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you that
idea?

Well your first -personal attack (for no reason)- on me was to the
effect that leading it to a drain was bad business. Gee, maybe that
gave me the idea that you don't approve of it.

I am licensed by the state I live in. Are you(except for your license to be
a moron, not to be confused with the Stormin Moron)? This has not been a
personal attack, unless you are thin skinned enough to beleive it is..


While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve
drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there to
be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe
Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the the
new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's what
keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

Try answering the question instead of going off into the bushes.
Again, pointing the pipe -up- drains the valve seat just how? I have
never seen a pipe pointing up that drains anything unless it is by
siphon. Why do I think that you have read something into the code
that isn't there?

There is a couple of fitting available, one is called a 'tee.' You pipe the
releif into the tee and provide a way for the water to drain off, usually a
3/8" sink valve. This will allow the water to drain off the seat (providing
it was installed at a slight downward pitch) with out spraying high pressure
hot water all over a person that stands near the valve. Nibco makes an
elbow that has a drain on it. To me, that looks a lot neater and I will
take the rubber gasket out that seals it. That means there is no way the HO
can seal the pipe off and let water sit on the seat. (of course, I don't do
this if the water tank is in an area that can be damaged by water on the
floor. I also explain all functions the the HO before I submit the bill and
answer any questions.)


Here is another question. Do you agree that the TPR valve should be
piped to a drain (using an air gap of course)???

If there is an adequate drain nearby, yes. For those still following this
thread, Harry is refering to an air gap not as a special fitting, but an
actual space between the end of the releif and the drain opening. That way
you can see the water coming out the releif and know you have a problem.

If you have noticed, I have always referred to the fittings as a relief or
relief valve instead of a 'TPR.' Do you know why that is?

Make up your mind. Do -all- codes require this? In one place you say
that no codes require it be piped to a drain, then you say that all
codes require it to be piped vertically. Now just how you know that
is a wonder.

No I don't as TPR is short for Temperature, Pressure, Relief (Valve).
Correctly it should be TPRV but the shorthand is acceptable.

Thin skinned? In your very first reply you said I needed to be able
to read? Not a personal attack?? Horse ****!.

Your only valid point about the pipe pointing up is to keep it from
spraying on a person standing next to it. If pointed down it could
still spray on the feet. As for draining the valve, a pipe pointing
down does that quite well without all the monkey business.

Note that this whole think started with you complaining about me
saying that it should be piped to a drain. Now you say you do it when
possible. So just what -is- your problem?? By the way, you could
knock off the personal attacks, it only makes you look stupid.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
m...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...

I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do
that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Ah, that is clear as mud. Because -your- codes don't that means -no
codes do-? I can see it now as my local inspector downchecks my work.
"but heatman's code doesn't require that". Your logic has a BIG hole
in it.

You are an inbred moron, aren't you? It's not MY code, it's the code
for my
municipality....

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the OP
to
run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking, there
is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem.
You
need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to connect
it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing
pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that
suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As
to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic
department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif
towards
the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


And that comment is supposed to mean something in response to what I
posted?? Logic man, logic. Of course it is better but it is not the
-best- solution.

YOU talk about logic? 99.9% of the people who know anything about this
understood what i was saying. I don't care if you do.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously. If
it's
in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it
does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't
you
think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a small
drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'.
Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??


No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you
that
idea?

Well your first -personal attack (for no reason)- on me was to the
effect that leading it to a drain was bad business. Gee, maybe that
gave me the idea that you don't approve of it.

I am licensed by the state I live in. Are you(except for your license
to be
a moron, not to be confused with the Stormin Moron)? This has not been
a
personal attack, unless you are thin skinned enough to beleive it is..


While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief valve
drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require there
to
be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing
the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe
Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the
the
new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's
what
keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

Try answering the question instead of going off into the bushes.
Again, pointing the pipe -up- drains the valve seat just how? I have
never seen a pipe pointing up that drains anything unless it is by
siphon. Why do I think that you have read something into the code
that isn't there?

There is a couple of fitting available, one is called a 'tee.' You pipe
the
releif into the tee and provide a way for the water to drain off,
usually a
3/8" sink valve. This will allow the water to drain off the seat
(providing
it was installed at a slight downward pitch) with out spraying high
pressure
hot water all over a person that stands near the valve. Nibco makes an
elbow that has a drain on it. To me, that looks a lot neater and I will
take the rubber gasket out that seals it. That means there is no way
the HO
can seal the pipe off and let water sit on the seat. (of course, I
don't do
this if the water tank is in an area that can be damaged by water on the
floor. I also explain all functions the the HO before I submit the bill
and
answer any questions.)


Here is another question. Do you agree that the TPR valve should be
piped to a drain (using an air gap of course)???

If there is an adequate drain nearby, yes. For those still following
this
thread, Harry is refering to an air gap not as a special fitting, but an
actual space between the end of the releif and the drain opening. That
way
you can see the water coming out the releif and know you have a problem.

If you have noticed, I have always referred to the fittings as a relief
or
relief valve instead of a 'TPR.' Do you know why that is?

Make up your mind. Do -all- codes require this? In one place you say
that no codes require it be piped to a drain, then you say that all
codes require it to be piped vertically. Now just how you know that
is a wonder.

The codes require the releif to be piped to a place where the discharge will
*not* harm someone. How it's piped is usually locally determined.

No I don't as TPR is short for Temperature, Pressure, Relief (Valve).
Correctly it should be TPRV but the shorthand is acceptable.

I install a lot of releif valves that have nothing to do with the temprature
of the water. Do you have a clue what I am talking about?

Thin skinned? In your very first reply you said I needed to be able
to read? Not a personal attack?? Horse ****!.


I don't use language like that and I think it's vulgar and demeaning. You
need to grow up and start reading what is written with an open mind. This
has never beena personal attack and will never be in a public forum. One of
the best rules of management is to praise in public and punish in private.

Your only valid point about the pipe pointing up is to keep it from
spraying on a person standing next to it. If pointed down it could
still spray on the feet. As for draining the valve, a pipe pointing
down does that quite well without all the monkey business.


By the way, what exactly do you do for a living? It sure isn't mechanical
contracting.

Note that this whole think started with you complaining about me
saying that it should be piped to a drain. Now you say you do it when
possible. So just what -is- your problem?? By the way, you could
knock off the personal attacks, it only makes you look stupid.

Actually, you jumped in when I asked the OP "Who told you to pipe it to a
drain?" My comment to that was doing that without repairing the problem
wasn't not the proper way to solve the problem. You then said something
about an air gap. The thread went downhill from there.

I will agree that is *should* be piped to a drain. It's just that it's not
always possible.

Harry, people like you don't need a keyboard. You think you are always
right and hide behind the keyboard proclaiming your superiority to anyone
that will listen. That superiority complex you have (like a mini Napoleon)
gets magnified because you can hide behind a keyboard.

When you have 20 plus years in the mechanical field, you will have the right
to say what you want. Until you can prove to me you have been in my field
for enough years, you are still a moron.

I am done with this thread and will no longer respond to your idiotic
comments. If you wish to continue this conversation, you may email me at my
response address.

BTW, your TPR comments are wrong. I call it a relief because they relieve
pressure in boilers and water heaters. I have never seen a boiler set up
correctly that had a 'TPR' on it. Most boilers I work on have relief valves
that open at 30 pounds. Even those are supposed to be (at least) piped to
the floor. Piping a steam boiler relief to a floor drain can be a major
waste of materials.

'nuff said. Have a good life Harry.

One last thing.

"HeatMan" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Harry K" wrote in message
m...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...

I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do
that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Ah, that is clear as mud. Because -your- codes don't that means -no
codes do-? I can see it now as my local inspector downchecks my
work.
"but heatman's code doesn't require that". Your logic has a BIG
hole
in it.

You are an inbred moron, aren't you? It's not MY code, it's the code
for my
municipality....

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the
OP
to
run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking,
there
is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem.
You
need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to
connect
it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing
pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that
suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As
to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic
department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif
towards
the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


And that comment is supposed to mean something in response to what I
posted?? Logic man, logic. Of course it is better but it is not the
-best- solution.

YOU talk about logic? 99.9% of the people who know anything about
this
understood what i was saying. I don't care if you do.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously.
If
it's
in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it
does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't
you
think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a
small
drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'.
Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??


No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you
that
idea?

Well your first -personal attack (for no reason)- on me was to the
effect that leading it to a drain was bad business. Gee, maybe that
gave me the idea that you don't approve of it.

I am licensed by the state I live in. Are you(except for your license
to be
a moron, not to be confused with the Stormin Moron)? This has not
been
a
personal attack, unless you are thin skinned enough to beleive it is..


While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief
valve
drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require
there
to
be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing
the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe
Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the
the
new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's
what
keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

Try answering the question instead of going off into the bushes.
Again, pointing the pipe -up- drains the valve seat just how? I
have
never seen a pipe pointing up that drains anything unless it is by
siphon. Why do I think that you have read something into the code
that isn't there?

There is a couple of fitting available, one is called a 'tee.' You
pipe
the
releif into the tee and provide a way for the water to drain off,
usually a
3/8" sink valve. This will allow the water to drain off the seat
(providing
it was installed at a slight downward pitch) with out spraying high
pressure
hot water all over a person that stands near the valve. Nibco makes
an
elbow that has a drain on it. To me, that looks a lot neater and I
will
take the rubber gasket out that seals it. That means there is no way
the HO
can seal the pipe off and let water sit on the seat. (of course, I
don't do
this if the water tank is in an area that can be damaged by water on
the
floor. I also explain all functions the the HO before I submit the
bill
and
answer any questions.)


Here is another question. Do you agree that the TPR valve should be
piped to a drain (using an air gap of course)???

If there is an adequate drain nearby, yes. For those still following
this
thread, Harry is refering to an air gap not as a special fitting, but
an
actual space between the end of the releif and the drain opening.
That
way
you can see the water coming out the releif and know you have a
problem.

If you have noticed, I have always referred to the fittings as a
relief
or
relief valve instead of a 'TPR.' Do you know why that is?

Make up your mind. Do -all- codes require this? In one place you say
that no codes require it be piped to a drain, then you say that all
codes require it to be piped vertically. Now just how you know that
is a wonder.

The codes require the releif to be piped to a place where the discharge
will
*not* harm someone. How it's piped is usually locally determined.

No I don't as TPR is short for Temperature, Pressure, Relief (Valve).
Correctly it should be TPRV but the shorthand is acceptable.

I install a lot of releif valves that have nothing to do with the
temprature
of the water. Do you have a clue what I am talking about?

Thin skinned? In your very first reply you said I needed to be able
to read? Not a personal attack?? Horse ****!.


I don't use language like that and I think it's vulgar and demeaning. You
need to grow up and start reading what is written with an open mind. This
has never beena personal attack and will never be in a public forum. One
of
the best rules of management is to praise in public and punish in private.

Your only valid point about the pipe pointing up is to keep it from
spraying on a person standing next to it. If pointed down it could
still spray on the feet. As for draining the valve, a pipe pointing
down does that quite well without all the monkey business.


By the way, what exactly do you do for a living? It sure isn't mechanical
contracting.

Note that this whole think started with you complaining about me
saying that it should be piped to a drain. Now you say you do it when
possible. So just what -is- your problem?? By the way, you could
knock off the personal attacks, it only makes you look stupid.

Actually, you jumped in when I asked the OP "Who told you to pipe it to a
drain?" My comment to that was doing that without repairing the problem
wasn't not the proper way to solve the problem. You then said something
about an air gap. The thread went downhill from there.

I will agree that is *should* be piped to a drain. It's just that it's
not
always possible.

Harry, people like you don't need a keyboard. You think you are always
right and hide behind the keyboard proclaiming your superiority to anyone
that will listen. That superiority complex you have (like a mini
Napoleon)
gets magnified because you can hide behind a keyboard.

When you have 20 plus years in the mechanical field, you will have the
right
to say what you want. Until you can prove to me you have been in my
field
for enough years, you are still a moron.

I am done with this thread and will no longer respond to your idiotic
comments. If you wish to continue this conversation, you may email me at
my
response address.

BTW, your TPR comments are wrong. I call it a relief because they relieve
pressure in boilers and water heaters. I have never seen a boiler set up
correctly that had a 'TPR' on it. Most boilers I work on have relief
valves
that open at 30 pounds. Even those are supposed to be (at least) piped to
the floor. Piping a steam boiler relief to a floor drain can be a major
waste of materials.

'nuff said. Have a good life Harry.


I know I said I would not respond again, but I'm responding to my own post.

You want to see personal attacks? Go to news:alt.hvac and you'll see some
personal attacks. And except for one person, I don't do that.

Humble respondent apologizes for opening a can of worms and causing a
****storm and promises not to do it again, if he can figure out how to ask a
simple question without such result.

Now everyone take a deep breath and return to whatever it is you were taking
apart before. And have a good week. I'm going to put an expansion tank on.

....phsiii

If nothing else, phsiii, you helped provide some entertainment for the rest
of us.


"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message newsnKnc.57244$NZ4.49479@lakeread05...
Humble respondent apologizes for opening a can of worms and causing a
****storm and promises not to do it again, if he can figure out how to ask
a
simple question without such result.

Now everyone take a deep breath and return to whatever it is you were
taking
apart before. And have a good week. I'm going to put an expansion tank
on.

...phsiii

"Remove dots from userid to reply" wrote in
message newsnKnc.57244$NZ4.49479@lakeread05...
Humble respondent apologizes for opening a can of worms and causing a
****storm and promises not to do it again, if he can figure out how to ask
a
simple question without such result.

Now everyone take a deep breath and return to whatever it is you were
taking
apart before. And have a good week. I'm going to put an expansion tank
on.

...phsiii


Apology not accepted, but understood.

I won't accept your apology because you don't need to give (or offer) one.
Part of my job is to teach people. Some people don't want to be taught.

If you still wish to offer an apology, I will accept it. I still don't
think it's necessary.

"HeatMan" wrote in message link.net...
One last thing.

"HeatMan" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Harry K" wrote in message
m...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...
"Harry K" wrote in message
om...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...

I'm curious. Just how do you know that no local codes don't do
that?


Our local codes, you moron.

Ah, that is clear as mud. Because -your- codes don't that means -no
codes do-? I can see it now as my local inspector downchecks my
work.
"but heatman's code doesn't require that". Your logic has a BIG
hole
in it.

You are an inbred moron, aren't you? It's not MY code, it's the code
for my
municipality....

Second, and more important(!), the question was who told the
OP
to
run a
leaking pipe to a floor drain. If the relief is leaking,
there
is a
problem
and running it to a floor drain will simply hide the problem.
You
need
to
learn how to read.

What got your panties in a bunch? I posted a comment to others
pointing out that just pointing a TPR overflow to the floor (or
elsewhere) is not a good practice. If you think I mean to
connect
it
to the drain, I don't. You must ahve an air gap and a blowing
pipe
into a drain will be notice enough. You seem to think that
suddenly
discovering water everywhere on the floor is a 'good thing'. As
to
reading, I do just fine, you don't do so well in the logic
department
tho.


Brother, you ain't got a clue, do you? 'Pointing' the releif
towards
the
floor is better than not piping it down at all.


And that comment is supposed to mean something in response to what I
posted?? Logic man, logic. Of course it is better but it is not the
-best- solution.

YOU talk about logic? 99.9% of the people who know anything about
this
understood what i was saying. I don't care if you do.


Oh, and yes, the relief valves do pop and run continuously.
If
it's
in
an
older house with a 1.25 inch or a 1.5 inch floor drain (and it
does
happen,
I'm sitting about 14 feet from a 1.5 inch floor drain), don't
you
think
65-120 psi will overpower the draining capacity of such a
small
drain?


Again your seem to think that a flooded floor is a 'good thing'.
Yes
it can overwhelm the drain so just let it blow eh??


No, I don't think a flooded floor is a good thing. What gave you
that
idea?

Well your first -personal attack (for no reason)- on me was to the
effect that leading it to a drain was bad business. Gee, maybe that
gave me the idea that you don't approve of it.

I am licensed by the state I live in. Are you(except for your license
to be
a moron, not to be confused with the Stormin Moron)? This has not
been
a
personal attack, unless you are thin skinned enough to beleive it is..


While I'm at it, have you ever seen the pipe off a relief
valve
drain
upwards? I see them almost daily...... New codes require
there
to
be
some
way to drain the water off the seat of the valve.

So all -local- codes require that now??. Just how does pointing
the
pipe -up- drain the valve seat and just where is all that water
spraying to??

A lot of the older homes had the releif piped outside. Now, Joe
Homeowner
or a hack 'plumber' comes in and reconnects the existing pipe the
the
new
releif. That's when the drain from the releif comes in. That's
what
keeps
the water off the seat of the releif.

Try answering the question instead of going off into the bushes.
Again, pointing the pipe -up- drains the valve seat just how? I
have
never seen a pipe pointing up that drains anything unless it is by
siphon. Why do I think that you have read something into the code
that isn't there?

There is a couple of fitting available, one is called a 'tee.' You
pipe
the
releif into the tee and provide a way for the water to drain off,
usually a
3/8" sink valve. This will allow the water to drain off the seat
(providing
it was installed at a slight downward pitch) with out spraying high
pressure
hot water all over a person that stands near the valve. Nibco makes
an
elbow that has a drain on it. To me, that looks a lot neater and I
will
take the rubber gasket out that seals it. That means there is no way
the HO
can seal the pipe off and let water sit on the seat. (of course, I
don't do
this if the water tank is in an area that can be damaged by water on
the
floor. I also explain all functions the the HO before I submit the
bill
and
answer any questions.)


Here is another question. Do you agree that the TPR valve should be
piped to a drain (using an air gap of course)???

If there is an adequate drain nearby, yes. For those still following
this
thread, Harry is refering to an air gap not as a special fitting, but
an
actual space between the end of the releif and the drain opening.
That
way
you can see the water coming out the releif and know you have a
problem.

If you have noticed, I have always referred to the fittings as a
relief
or
relief valve instead of a 'TPR.' Do you know why that is?

Make up your mind. Do -all- codes require this? In one place you say
that no codes require it be piped to a drain, then you say that all
codes require it to be piped vertically. Now just how you know that
is a wonder.

The codes require the releif to be piped to a place where the discharge
will
*not* harm someone. How it's piped is usually locally determined.

No I don't as TPR is short for Temperature, Pressure, Relief (Valve).
Correctly it should be TPRV but the shorthand is acceptable.

I install a lot of releif valves that have nothing to do with the
temprature
of the water. Do you have a clue what I am talking about?

Thin skinned? In your very first reply you said I needed to be able
to read? Not a personal attack?? Horse ****!.


I don't use language like that and I think it's vulgar and demeaning. You
need to grow up and start reading what is written with an open mind. This
has never beena personal attack and will never be in a public forum. One
of
the best rules of management is to praise in public and punish in private.

Your only valid point about the pipe pointing up is to keep it from
spraying on a person standing next to it. If pointed down it could
still spray on the feet. As for draining the valve, a pipe pointing
down does that quite well without all the monkey business.


By the way, what exactly do you do for a living? It sure isn't mechanical
contracting.

Note that this whole think started with you complaining about me
saying that it should be piped to a drain. Now you say you do it when
possible. So just what -is- your problem?? By the way, you could
knock off the personal attacks, it only makes you look stupid.

Actually, you jumped in when I asked the OP "Who told you to pipe it to a
drain?" My comment to that was doing that without repairing the problem
wasn't not the proper way to solve the problem. You then said something
about an air gap. The thread went downhill from there.

I will agree that is *should* be piped to a drain. It's just that it's
not
always possible.

Harry, people like you don't need a keyboard. You think you are always
right and hide behind the keyboard proclaiming your superiority to anyone
that will listen. That superiority complex you have (like a mini
Napoleon)
gets magnified because you can hide behind a keyboard.

When you have 20 plus years in the mechanical field, you will have the
right
to say what you want. Until you can prove to me you have been in my
field
for enough years, you are still a moron.

I am done with this thread and will no longer respond to your idiotic
comments. If you wish to continue this conversation, you may email me at
my
response address.

BTW, your TPR comments are wrong. I call it a relief because they relieve
pressure in boilers and water heaters. I have never seen a boiler set up
correctly that had a 'TPR' on it. Most boilers I work on have relief
valves
that open at 30 pounds. Even those are supposed to be (at least) piped to
the floor. Piping a steam boiler relief to a floor drain can be a major
waste of materials.

'nuff said. Have a good life Harry.


I know I said I would not respond again, but I'm responding to my own post.

You want to see personal attacks? Go to news:alt.hvac and you'll see some
personal attacks. And except for one person, I don't do that.

So calling me a moron for only saying that it -should- (notice not
must) be piped to drain is not a personal attak. While it was fun as
a kid stirring up an ants nest to watch the activity, your amusement
value has worn off. If you treat your customers the way you have been
acting here, I would say you probably don't have a lot of repeat
business...bye

Harry K

Your plumbing should be about 50psi. The T&P valve will drip at about
150psi.
Can you see why letting it drip is a bad idea?

Someone recommended either a shock absorber or a capped pipe. The smallest
expansion tank is probably 50 times the size of a shock absorber.
Can you see why a shock absorber probably won't work?

You might want to check your water pressure. Mine is 50psi normally, and
goes up to 80psi maximum when the water heater does it worst. If yours is
enough to trip the T&P, then it might be too high to start with.

"Toller" wrote in message
...
Your plumbing should be about 50psi. The T&P valve will drip at about
150psi.
Can you see why letting it drip is a bad idea?

Someone recommended either a shock absorber or a capped pipe. The
smallest
expansion tank is probably 50 times the size of a shock absorber.
Can you see why a shock absorber probably won't work?

You might want to check your water pressure. Mine is 50psi normally, and
goes up to 80psi maximum when the water heater does it worst. If yours
is
enough to trip the T&P, then it might be too high to start with.


FWIW, when I bought my house, it didn't have a pressure reducing valve,
therefore the pressure was about 120 psi. One of the first things I did was
to install a PRV. The wife complained because the 50-55 psi I had it set to
wasn't high enough, I reset it to 80 psi and she's happy.

FWIW, when I bought my house, it didn't have a pressure reducing valve,
therefore the pressure was about 120 psi. One of the first things I did
was
to install a PRV. The wife complained because the 50-55 psi I had it set
to
wasn't high enough, I reset it to 80 psi and she's happy.

Mine was 85psi and the local code wisely allows a maximum of 70; so last
year I installed a PRV, cutting it to 50.(except for my main outdoor outlet,
that I replumbed to come before the valve) Can't really tell the difference
except that a pinhole leak just before the water heater, that I couldn't
rouse myself to fix, stopped leaking!

According to Toller :
Your plumbing should be about 50psi. The T&P valve will drip at about
150psi.
Can you see why letting it drip is a bad idea?

Someone recommended either a shock absorber or a capped pipe. The smallest
expansion tank is probably 50 times the size of a shock absorber.
Can you see why a shock absorber probably won't work?

No ;-)

Water is incompressible. That means that _very_ small thermal expansion
leads to very high pressures in a rigid plumbing system. A few cubic inches
worth of expansion room is usually going to be more than adequate to
handle the fractions of a percentage of expansion from the "HWT downstream
of checkvalve" problem.

But if you have the room, an expansion tank would be better. Usually
overkill, but "better".

You might want to check your water pressure. Mine is 50psi normally, and
goes up to 80psi maximum when the water heater does it worst.

You really should regulate that out too. Mine doesn't vary more than a PSI
or two. Important if you're on a well (eg: with poly well lines).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.