I know my late mom's deck was a cheapo effort. Still, got PTW for the
decking boards. Now, all the screws are rusty and pulling out and the wood is
going bad, no doubt due to no kinda deck stain/preservatives and
covering the deck with household carpenting, which held the moisture
even longer than the Rocky Mountain snows. Plus, a buddy told me PTW
will rot regular deck screws (3-1/2" ).

I plan to eventually renew the deck boards w/ new PTW boards, but what
kinda screws? I don't wanna hafta do this again.

nb

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 11:23:40 AM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
I know my late mom's deck was a cheapo effort. Still, got PTW for the
decking boards. Now, all the screws are rusty and pulling out and the wood is
going bad, no doubt due to no kinda deck stain/preservatives and
covering the deck with household carpenting, which held the moisture
even longer than the Rocky Mountain snows. Plus, a buddy told me PTW
will rot regular deck screws (3-1/2" ).

I plan to eventually renew the deck boards w/ new PTW boards, but what
kinda screws? I don't wanna hafta do this again.

nb

think no magnetc stainless for screws and better to use composite decking with no exposed screws for longer life

On 17 Sep 2015 15:23:35 GMT, notbob wrote:

I know my late mom's deck was a cheapo effort. Still, got PTW for the
decking boards. Now, all the screws are rusty and pulling out and the wood is
going bad, no doubt due to no kinda deck stain/preservatives and
covering the deck with household carpenting, which held the moisture
even longer than the Rocky Mountain snows. Plus, a buddy told me PTW
will rot regular deck screws (3-1/2" ).

I plan to eventually renew the deck boards w/ new PTW boards, but what
kinda screws? I don't wanna hafta do this again.

nb

Nothing but stainless for me but Florida is tougher on hardware than
most places.

I like ringed deck nails. They don't leave a hole
to hold water and are less noticeable once stained.
I don't know of any reason that one needs screws.

I've been seeing screws even in railings. SS, square
drive screws. They look fancy but split the wood and
offer no advantage over nails.

On 2015-09-17, Mayayana wrote:
I like ringed deck nails. They don't leave a hole
to hold water and are less noticeable once stained.
I don't know of any reason that one needs screws.

Holy crick-crock! So many variables. Do you mean ring shanked nails?

I haven't done any carpentry since 16 box nails were the height of
construction technology. Were talking framing hammers.

When I built new steps for my late mom, I used screws. Not cuz I knew
best, but noticed the original steps and pretty much the entire deck
was done with 3-1/2 screws (now all rusty and pulling out).

The first thing I learned was, I didn't know the diff between a
battery pwrd drill and an impact/drill. After discovering I hadda
pre-drill all those screw holes (3 guesses which one I got) cuz my
DeWalt btry drill would only push those screws about half way, I
discovered the impact/drill. I now have a Hitachi drill/driver, but I
also have my late brothers framing air gun and a lot of his other
tools (he was a master carpenter).

Reading online, I see arguments for both screws and nails. I'll be
re-doing the deck board/planks in wood, in the CO Rockies, so a lotta
dry/freeze cycles. Hope this info helps ppl replying to my OP.

nb

On 9/17/2015 1:15 PM, Mayayana wrote:
I like ringed deck nails. They don't leave a hole
to hold water and are less noticeable once stained.
I don't know of any reason that one needs screws.

I've been seeing screws even in railings. SS, square
drive screws. They look fancy but split the wood and
offer no advantage over nails.



I built a small deck recently using deck screws. Pre-drilled the holes
when it was on the edges of the planks, but everything else went in easy
without pre-drilling. Every deck we've built we used screws even the
deck we built around our above ground pool. When we sold the pool, we
sold the deck with it and the boards just had to be unscrewed and carted
away.

--
Maggie

| When we sold the pool, we
| sold the deck with it and the boards just had to be unscrewed and carted
| away.
|

That's the one argument I can think of in favor of
screws. Easier to take apart. I can't think of any
other reason. Those holes you didn't pre-drill will
end up with mini-splits and water will pool in the
countersink, rotting the wood further. Flat head
nails will virtually disappear because they're pretty
much on the same plane as the wood.

notbob wrote:
I know my late mom's deck was a cheapo effort. Still, got PTW for the
decking boards. Now, all the screws are rusty and pulling out and
the wood is going bad, no doubt due to no kinda deck
stain/preservatives and
covering the deck with household carpenting, which held the moisture
even longer than the Rocky Mountain snows. Plus, a buddy told me PTW
will rot regular deck screws (3-1/2" ).

I plan to eventually renew the deck boards w/ new PTW boards, but what
kinda screws? I don't wanna hafta do this again.

I believe stanless steel or heavily galvanized are approved for the modern
treated wood.

| Holy crick-crock! So many variables. Do you mean ring shanked nails?
|

None other.

| cuz my
| DeWalt btry drill would only push those screws about half way

That's another "improvement" that I don't get. I use
a normal drill as a scrwgun. It works fine. There are times
when a cordless drill would be nice, to avoid the extension
cords, but I really just don't find extension cords to be such
a big hassle. And maintaining one good drill is a lot cheaper
than maintaining high-powered portable drills and the
batteries needed to keep them running all day.

| Reading online, I see arguments for both screws and nails. I'll be
| re-doing the deck board/planks in wood, in the CO Rockies, so a lotta
| dry/freeze cycles. Hope this info helps ppl replying to my OP.
|

I would look at the reasons people give. See if they
really have sound logic or whether they're just repeating
something they heard. I'm in New England. Lots of weather
extremes. I just don't see the rusting of galvanized nails
that people talk about. Our deck here is almost 20 years
old. PT 4/4 x 6. It's not the most elegant wood, but it's
held up fine. I've also used solid oil deck stain (which is
hard to get now).
I think one of the big mistakes people make with PT
is to think it's impervious and then not put a finish on
it. That's not only ugly. It also results in a lot of splitting,
due to the combination of damage done by the pressure
treating itself and the drying from the sun.

Mayayana wrote:
I would look at the reasons people give. See if they
really have sound logic or whether they're just repeating
something they heard. I'm in New England. Lots of weather
extremes. I just don't see the rusting of galvanized nails
that people talk about. Our deck here is almost 20 years
old. PT 4/4 x 6. It's not the most elegant wood, but it's
held up fine. I've also used solid oil deck stain (which is
hard to get now).


At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current stuff. Required
fasteners are different.

| At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current stuff.
Required
| fasteners are different.
|

It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

On 09/17/2015 11:23 AM, notbob wrote:
I know my late mom's deck was a cheapo effort. Still, got PTW for the
decking boards. Now, all the screws are rusty and pulling out and the wood is
going bad, no doubt due to no kinda deck stain/preservatives and
covering the deck with household carpenting, which held the moisture
even longer than the Rocky Mountain snows. Plus, a buddy told me PTW
will rot regular deck screws (3-1/2" ).

I plan to eventually renew the deck boards w/ new PTW boards, but what
kinda screws? I don't wanna hafta do this again.

nb


I built a 2 decks in 2007 (bought all materials at Menards) and every damn screw rusted through within 3 years. I'm told that now that the wood
has dried out, the new screws won't rust through.

But if I had to do it all over again, I'd find a good grade of stainless steel deck screws.

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 3:24:26 PM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:
| At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current stuff.
Required
| fasteners are different.
|

It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

I seem to recall it being a copper compound used for treating lumber now. The moonbats howl that the old arsenic treated lumber wasn't environmentally friendly. I slap them upside and yell at them,"I DON'T WANT TO BE FRIENDLY TO THE ENVIRONMENT! I WANT TO KILL ANYTHING THAT TRIES TO EAT MY DECK!" Fraking morons. They probably put their transgender kids in bubble wrap suits if they ever allow them to go outside and play. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Poison Monster

On 09/17/2015 3:28 PM, Mayayana wrote:
....

It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

Alkaline Copper Quaternary (also known as ACQ) treatment is made up of
copper, a bactericide and fungicide and a quaternary ammonium compound
(quat) which acts as biocide.

It is, ime, mostly ineffective as compared to CCA which is, generally,
less effective than creosote (at least for posts in ground in this area).

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

Not sure what the above means, but--

ACQ, CA, ACZA and CCA all require hot-dipped(*) galvanized nails or
stainless steel nails and screws. Fasteners should meet the ASTM A-153
specification for hot-dipped galvanizing. 304 or 316 stainless steel is
good, some other common SS, "not so much". But note, don _not_ use
galvanized fasteners with SS connectors.

Aluminum should not in direct contact with these products.

(*) Electroplated/electro-galvanized and mechanically galvanized
coatings are _not_ equivalent to hot-dip galvanized. It requires Class
55 or higher mechanical galvanizing to be equivalent (per ASTM B695).

--

Mayayana wrote:
At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current
stuff. Required fasteners are different.


It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

Really?

The high level of copper in lumber treated with ACQ or CA speeds up the
corrosion of most fasteners, so for decks or other outdoor projects made from
pressure-treated lumber, code requires the use of fasteners that offer good
corrosion resistance.

On 2015-09-17, Mayayana wrote:

It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

Still, it's info one must wade through or perhaps miss a key point.

CCA = Chromated Copper Arsenate
ACQ = Alkaline Copper Quaternary

Both ar Pressure Treated Wood (PTW), the later replacing the former by
EPA dictate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkali...per_quaternary

I'm still getting conflicting opinions on which are the best
fasteners. A retired gen contractor jes voiced his opinion that ring
shank nails are to be avoided. (sigh) 8|

nb

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 08:46:57 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 11:23:40 AM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
I know my late mom's deck was a cheapo effort. Still, got PTW for the
decking boards. Now, all the screws are rusty and pulling out and the wood is
going bad, no doubt due to no kinda deck stain/preservatives and
covering the deck with household carpenting, which held the moisture
even longer than the Rocky Mountain snows. Plus, a buddy told me PTW
will rot regular deck screws (3-1/2" ).

I plan to eventually renew the deck boards w/ new PTW boards, but what
kinda screws? I don't wanna hafta do this again.

nb

think no magnetc stainless for screws and better to use composite decking with no exposed screws for longer life
There are screws made specifically for preassure treated decking -
they are ceramic coated. Or you can use hot galvanized if you can find
them - otherwise non-magnetic stainless.

Or use cedar or composite decking. Even good spruce will last as long
as some of the crappy PT being sold today if you through a coat of
penetrating stain or Thompsons on it.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 14:15:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

I like ringed deck nails. They don't leave a hole
to hold water and are less noticeable once stained.
I don't know of any reason that one needs screws.

I've been seeing screws even in railings. SS, square
drive screws. They look fancy but split the wood and
offer no advantage over nails.

Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.

If you pre-drill for screws the wood won't split. I don't surface nail
or surface screw my decks. Deck clips work fine with hot galvanized
roofing nails - and you don't see them. On my composite deck I used
the plastic clips with stainless screws. Deck railing assembled with
nails doesn't last very long. Screws hold more in tension than nails.

On 2015-09-17, noname wrote:

But if I had to do it all over again, I'd find a good grade of
stainless steel deck screws.

So far, I'm tending to agree.

I bought some 3/8-16 SS bolts/nuts/washers to secure the hand rail
uprights to my mom's deck step risers (Ima mechanical kinda guy). I
got 'em at True Value Hardware, so was not real sure if they were a
good grade of stainless. The few bolts I didn't use, I left outdoors
in the weather. After 6 yrs of rain/snow/sun, all parts show zero
signs of rust. I'm amazed!

nb

| Alkaline Copper Quaternary

Thanks. I've been trying to find that for years!

--
-
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
| Mayayana wrote:
| At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current
| stuff. Required fasteners are different.
|
|
| It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
| instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
| this day I haven't been able to find out what the
| new "acq" is made of.)
|
| But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
| and screws.
|
| Really?
|
| The high level of copper in lumber treated with ACQ or CA speeds up the
| corrosion of most fasteners, so for decks or other outdoor projects made
from
| pressure-treated lumber, code requires the use of fasteners that offer
good
| corrosion resistance.
|

They both have copper. You said the required
fasteners are different for each. I've used mostly
plain galvanized nails with both and never seen
a problem.

| CCA = Chromated Copper Arsenate
| ACQ = Alkaline Copper Quaternary
|
| Both ar Pressure Treated Wood (PTW), the later replacing the former by
| EPA dictate.
|
Yes. And it's not rated for ground contact!
So there isn't really anything for that now.

| I'm still getting conflicting opinions on which are the best
| fasteners. A retired gen contractor jes voiced his opinion that ring
| shank nails are to be avoided. (sigh) 8|

Does he say why? I get the sense that a lot
of people are just wowed by the latest thing.
It's hard to imagine any reason not to use
ringed, galvanized nails, except for Maggie's
point that screws can be easily taken out for
disassembly.

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.

Mayayana wrote:
Mayayana wrote:
At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current
stuff. Required fasteners are different.


It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

Really?

The high level of copper in lumber treated with ACQ or CA speeds up
the corrosion of most fasteners, so for decks or other outdoor
projects made from pressure-treated lumber, code requires the use of
fasteners that offer good corrosion resistance.


They both have copper. You said the required
fasteners are different for each. I've used mostly
plain galvanized nails with both and never seen
a problem.

Good galvanized nails are one of the recommended possibilities.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:22:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.


Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:48:26 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Mayayana wrote:
Mayayana wrote:
At 20 years old, it is probably the old PT wood, not the current
stuff. Required fasteners are different.


It is the old stuff. So I have resistant arsenic
instead of whatever it is they're using now. (To
this day I haven't been able to find out what the
new "acq" is made of.)

But that doesn't have anything to do with nails
and screws.

Really?

The high level of copper in lumber treated with ACQ or CA speeds up
the corrosion of most fasteners, so for decks or other outdoor
projects made from pressure-treated lumber, code requires the use of
fasteners that offer good corrosion resistance.


They both have copper. You said the required
fasteners are different for each. I've used mostly
plain galvanized nails with both and never seen
a problem.

Good galvanized nails are one of the recommended possibilities.

Good meaning "hot dipped", not plated. Rough, nasty, scaly finish is
the halmark of the hot dipped fastener. Sometimes they are bonded
together by the zink when you buy them - -

On 2015-09-17, Mayayana wrote:

ringed, galvanized nails, except for Maggie's
point that screws can be easily taken out for
disassembly.

That was my buddy's argument. Screws allow dis-assembly. I hope to
never have to disassemble this deck before I take a much needed dirt
nap.

nb

"Mayayana"
Thu, 17 Sep 2015 19:56:15 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

I'm in New England. Lots of weather extremes.

You aren't kidding. And, that's a polite way to put it.


--
Optimist: Someone who doesn't know all the facts yet.

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 7:09:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:22:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.


Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.

You belong to an elite group of multicraft people who are not helpless when it comes to the different trades and technology. You are the type person who would survive when the excreta impacts the propeller. Perhaps all that's needed is some medical training? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Multifaceted Monster

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 7:09:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:22:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.


Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.

You belong to an elite group of multicraft people who are not helpless when it comes to the different trades and technology. You are the type person who would survive when the excreta impacts the propeller. Perhaps all that's needed is some medical training? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Multifaceted Monster
Wife is a nurse. (retired)

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 9:25:44 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:57:52 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, September 17, 2015 at 7:09:48 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:22:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.


Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.

You belong to an elite group of multicraft people who are not helpless when it comes to the different trades and technology. You are the type person who would survive when the excreta impacts the propeller. Perhaps all that's needed is some medical training? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Multifaceted Monster


Wife is a nurse. (retired)

If she can cook a moose, you'll have it made during The End Times. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wild Monster

| I'm in New England. Lots of weather extremes.
|
| You aren't kidding. And, that's a polite way to put it.
|

It has its good points. I like the way that the cycles
evoke reflection. September brings lust for life, a sense
of loss, missed opportunity and sadness at the end of
Summer. November brings sense of death with ugly,
dead, brown landscape. Winter has cozy lunches of
delcious soup. Spring is always amazing after the long
Winter. Summer is more beautiful than just about
anyplace else I know.... If I were in San Diego I guess
I'd just get up every day to sunny room temperature.
I expect that would get old.

Today it was 90F. By Monday they're predicting a
high in the mid 60s. Over the weekend I've got to figure
out what I did with my long pants.

But I do dislike what the salt does to car frames.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:14:50 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

They both have copper. You said the required
fasteners are different for each. I've used mostly
plain galvanized nails with both and never seen
a problem.


I am doing a test on this as we speak
It has been going on for close to 2 years and I haven't seen anything
unusual yet.
This is sitting on the south side of my screen cage, out in the yard.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/PT%20lumber...2010-25-13.jpg

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:17:42 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| CCA = Chromated Copper Arsenate
| ACQ = Alkaline Copper Quaternary
|
| Both ar Pressure Treated Wood (PTW), the later replacing the former by
| EPA dictate.
|
Yes. And it's not rated for ground contact!
So there isn't really anything for that now.

| I'm still getting conflicting opinions on which are the best
| fasteners. A retired gen contractor jes voiced his opinion that ring
| shank nails are to be avoided. (sigh) 8|

Does he say why? I get the sense that a lot
of people are just wowed by the latest thing.
It's hard to imagine any reason not to use
ringed, galvanized nails, except for Maggie's
point that screws can be easily taken out for
disassembly.


You can still get CCA wood from a marine contractors supply but the
lumber is only going to be .6 or .8 CCA
The poles are still 2.5 tho.

On 9/17/2015 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:22:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.


Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.


We should all have a coffee mug that lists all the different careers
we've had over the years.

--
Maggie

On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 22:00:11 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On 9/17/2015 7:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:22:05 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Not much of a carpenter or woodworker, I see.
|

Apparently not, unlike yourself, who seem to
have had a career in virtually every trade.


Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.


We should all have a coffee mug that lists all the different careers
we've had over the years.

I think my wife would be in the running.

She stated out in a grocery store as a night stocker
then
Pharmacy assistant
Guard
Unloaded hogs at Rudy's Sausage in Arkansas
Loading dock manager in Tampa
Lab tech at Fox Electronics in Ft Myers
sold carpet
Owned a florist shop (FTD master florist)
Floral manager Publix
Sold landscape
Sold Safety supplies (Zee truck)
Sold advertising at the local paper
Sold Health Life and annuities
Retail store asst manager (home goods 2 places)
Sold HVAC systems (Trane top 10 performer 2 years in a row)
Built over 100 houses and brought a community out of the ground
Now site manager at a gated commmunity/country club and looking around
for something else.

notbob wrote:
On 2015-09-17, Mayayana wrote:

ringed, galvanized nails, except for Maggie's
point that screws can be easily taken out for
disassembly.

That was my buddy's argument. Screws allow dis-assembly. I hope to
never have to disassemble this deck before I take a much needed dirt
nap.

When I tried to disassemble the first deck I built, after 15 years or so, The
"deck screws" attaching the cedar deck to the structure had a bad habit of
snapping when I tried to unscrew them. They were quite rusty, enough that most
wouldn't turn.

On 9/17/2015 10:53 PM, wrote:

You can still get CCA wood from a marine contractors supply but the
lumber is only going to be .6 or .8 CCA
The poles are still 2.5 tho.


Oddly enough, the lst few weeks I've been noticing
a couple boards coming loose, on my deck. I'd got
some 1 5/8 inch deck screws, they seemed to help.
But not really long enough to anchor well. The boards
are an inch or so, and that's not much thread into
the beams. Later I find that I've got a box of 3 inch
deck screws. My plan is later today to pilot hole
through the deck boards, and put in a couple three
inchers, between the shorter screws.

That should help hold the Pressure Treated Wood wood.

If not might need to visit an ATM machine, on the
way to get my auotomobile VIN number.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 9/17/2015 11:00 PM, Muggles wrote:
Well, I've had several carreers - with several sub carreers within
those.


We should all have a coffee mug that lists all the different careers
we've had over the years.


Some folks list it on paper, and call it a re'sume'.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

| I am doing a test on this as we speak
| It has been going on for close to 2 years and I haven't seen anything
| unusual yet.
| This is sitting on the south side of my screen cage, out in the yard.
| http://gfretwell.com/ftp/PT%20lumber...2010-25-13.jpg

That looks interesting. Too bad you can't
sell it to Consumer Reports.

One comment: Personally I have found that
galvanized screws, equivalent to drywall screws,
can rust away. I don't think the problem is so
much the rust per se as the thinness of the
screws. They can't afford *any* rust. I wouldn't
use them at all for joist hangers because they
have little shear strength.

Similarly, I like to use coarse drywall screws for
light framing because they're easy to remove and
a lot less work than hammering. But I wouldn't use
them where strength is needed. They just don't
have anywhere near the shear strength of a 16d
nail.

The coated screws are heavier guage, though
they haven't been around long enough to know
how they hold up.

I don't have a nail gun. Sometimes I think I should
buy one, but there seem to be 3 sizes to cover
all nails. It's a lot of money and I'm always doing
different things, so it's hard to justify. (I might
frame for 1 day on a bath remodel and spend one
day doing trim, with 6 weeks of other work.)
But another hesitation for me with nail guns is that
they compress the wood as they go through. Time
and again I see where a nailgun was used to put in
twice the typical number of nails, yet they're not
holding well because they've essentially pre-drilled
a nail-size hole on their way in. On the other hand,
anyone used to using a nailgun would have a very
hard time accepting that criticism because the time
and effort they save is so substantial.