On 08/29/2015 09:52 AM, Don Y wrote:
The downside is you now have oil on your finger and will *tend*
to forget about that... while later screwing the filter onto the
block (leaving a nice film of oil on the outside of the filter
that makes tightening it more frustrating -- as your hand now
wants to slip on the oil film!)

You need to follow the Muslim teachings and use your left hand for
unclean things and your right for the clean ones. Being left handed, I
tend to get confused which is why I won't be vacationing in Saudi Arabia
anytime soon.

On 08/29/2015 10:47 AM, Muggles wrote:
I've heard that older vehicles are held together by the old oil and if
you change it the motor thinks the world is coming to an end and won't
start any more.

how old is old? Back before detergent oil you definitely didn't want to
stir the **** up. Back when you adjusted valve clearance, I've pulled
valve covers to find what looked like a thick coating of grease.
suddenly introducing them to detergent oil wasn't a good idea. I think
that's where the paranoia about going from dino to synthetic came from.

On 08/29/2015 09:53 AM, Don Y wrote:
My uncle had a "forgot to tighten the drain plug" experience.
Engine seized up on the way home. He was anything *but*
pleased!

The sneakier version is the 'cross thread the drain plug' one. That
makes additional revenue for the parts stores selling the drain plug
repair kits.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:47:37 -0500, Muggles wrote:

My van has an oil leak, and I'm currently in the process of looking for
an affordable part. The dealership was going to charge $590 for the
parts to fix the oil filter adapter, and about $100 in labor. Right now
I just add more oil to it occasionally.

What do you mean by "oil filter adapter"? Is this some after market
oil cooler, similar or looks like a radiator coil?

There are after market add-on coolers for oil and transmission fluids.
Likely used in vehicles doing some heavier hauling, pulling boats or
trailers in mountainous regions.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:54:35 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/29/2015 09:17 AM, Oren wrote:
Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage
engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

And if you follow the tightening instructions, unlike the teenage
Godzilla at QuickyLube, you might even be able to get the damn thing off
without a lot of drama at the next oil chance.

Yep. Some clowns think a filter has to be torqued down. Snug and a
nudge tight works for me

rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 09:53 AM, Don Y wrote:
My uncle had a "forgot to tighten the drain plug" experience.
Engine seized up on the way home. He was anything *but*
pleased!

The sneakier version is the 'cross thread the drain plug' one. That
makes additional revenue for the parts stores selling the drain plug
repair kits.


So far we're all reviewing/refreshing common sense knowledge
gained over time. Sign of us getting old? I quit doing all
those things crawling under car. Buy a new car, visit dealer
when service code comes on. Drive until odometer hits ~200K miles,
go buy another car trading in the old one. I have two more new
cars to buy now. One for me, one for wife.
Now I have to go, get med. exam. to renew my license for another 5 years.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 21:20:09 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/28/2015 11:07 AM, Oren wrote:
I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

One of the worst things for a car is the little old lady who drives it 3
miles to church on Sunday.

Touche`

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 07:49:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

I think it's a good idea to get under, and write the
oil change date on the oil filter, permanant marker.
That way you can tell if they did the work, by the
color of the oil and the date on the filter.

Or any other part that may need replaced. Mark it. Now days, just
demand old parts be returned or shown to you, in case there may be a
core charge. Brake calipers have a core charge as do some other parts.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:14:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:07:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

If you take a lot of short trips the oil can get contaminated with
moisture as it is not heated up enough to get rid of it. Over time
things can start to gum up, I'm told, thus the 6 month recommendation.
My wife's car used to be changed once a year. She never hit the miles
mark.

Makes sense. In the Mojave desert summers, it doesn't take much to
bring the engine temperature up, but I see the point of longer runs.

On 8/29/2015 10:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 09:17 AM, Oren wrote:
Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage
engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

And if you follow the tightening instructions, unlike the teenage Godzilla at
QuickyLube, you might even be able to get the damn thing off without a lot of
drama at the next oil chance.

Note that the criteria for tightening an oil filter are *objective*;
wait for contact/resistance then go 1/4 turn. None of this
"hand tighten" nonsense!

OTOH, a film of oil on the filter makes even *that* difficult!

On 8/29/2015 10:52 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/28/2015 09:42 PM, Don Y wrote:
If you fill the filter with oil before screwing it on, you won't have to
add,
later. I've found that you can get a *lot* of oil into a DRY filter --
even
if the filter is mounted "opening down" (e.g., like on Subaru's).

I skipped that step in my description, thanks. The Yaris and F150 both have
filters that mount right side up. Then there are innie and outie filters. I
prefer Swix or Napa Gold because when they punch the base plate and thread it
the threads are on the inside of the filter they are easier to get started.
Hard to explain without a picture.

Two of the bikes have the filters mounted sideways. The other bike is old
school and has a replaceable element, not a cartridge.

I add all the other ancillary "checks" at the same time:

I sort of mentally included them in the dead skunk check. After all, while
you're waiting for the oil to drain, you might as well inventory the engine
compartment, make sure nobody stole the alternator, etc.

Yup. One reason I dislike the oil change places is they barely give
the oil time to leave the pan before they've got the drain plug
back installed and are squirting oil from a multi-choice nozzle
into the vehicle (how much of the oil selected by the *previous*
customer is present in that hose??)

I've got the feeling 95% of today's drivers have never actually laid their eyes
on the engine of their vehicle. Only factory trained experts are allowed to pop
the hood latch.

While looking at cars, recently, I'd routinely pop the hood to
check to see what sort of maintenance hassles I would likely
encounter. If I couldn't *find* something (e.g., the first vehicle
I looked at had electric power steering -- "Where's the power
steering reservoir?"), I'd ask the salesman.

Talk about dumb-as-a-post... none of them knew the least bit
about what's under the hood. They were more interested in
how many *seats* it had or how fancy the sound system, etc.

[You'd think these guys would express an interest in the
PRODUCT they are selling! Esp as they probably spend a large
fraction of their day sitting around waiting for customers!]

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:52:36 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

I've got the feeling 95% of today's drivers have never actually laid
their eyes on the engine of their vehicle. Only factory trained experts
are allowed to pop the hood latch.

People were seeing E15 blended fuels for cheap, locally. Drive in to
the gas pump, fill up and later have serious engine damage. "Money for
nothing"

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:03:17 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/29/2015 10:47 AM, Muggles wrote:
I've heard that older vehicles are held together by the old oil and if
you change it the motor thinks the world is coming to an end and won't
start any more.

how old is old? Back before detergent oil you definitely didn't want to
stir the **** up. Back when you adjusted valve clearance, I've pulled
valve covers to find what looked like a thick coating of grease.
suddenly introducing them to detergent oil wasn't a good idea. I think
that's where the paranoia about going from dino to synthetic came from.


Remember "bulk oil" in the glass jars, filled with recycled oil? 15
cents a quart

eBay:

https://tinyurl.com/n9kct9b

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 1:02:19 PM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 10:47 AM, Muggles wrote:
I've heard that older vehicles are held together by the old oil and if
you change it the motor thinks the world is coming to an end and won't
start any more.

how old is old? Back before detergent oil you definitely didn't want to
stir the **** up. Back when you adjusted valve clearance, I've pulled
valve covers to find what looked like a thick coating of grease.
suddenly introducing them to detergent oil wasn't a good idea. I think
that's where the paranoia about going from dino to synthetic came from.

Years ago, I had a K car with the 2.2Ltr 4cyl which had some miles on it and some gunk had built up in the engine. I drained the oil and with the valve cover off, I used a parts cleaning brush and diesel fuel to clean the valve train. I then poured a gallon of diesel into the crankcase by pouring it over the valve train washing the rest of the gunk down through the drain holes in the head. After getting the diesel in the crankcase, I took a 1/4" plastic air line and threaded it through the drain holes in the head until it got into the oil pan. The air line was then connected to an air compressor and the air turned on to cause the diesel to splash around in the crankcase to dissolve the gunk. I drained the crankcase and repeated the cleaning.. After cleaning and reinstalling the valve cover, I installed a new oil filter then substituted a quart of Rislone for one quart of the new high detergent oil in the crankcase. I ran the car for several hundred miles and the oil was fairly clear when I checked it. The little engine stayed clean and the oil wasn't that dirty when changed at 5,000 miles. I never had a problem with the engine which was still running quietly when I sold the car. ^_^

http://rislone.com/product/engine-treatment/

[8~{} Uncle Oil Monster

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:31:13 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

Years ago, I had a K car with the 2.2Ltr 4cyl which had some miles on it and some gunk had built up in the engine. I drained the oil and with the valve cover off, I used a parts cleaning brush and diesel fuel to clean the valve train. I then poured a gallon of diesel into the crankcase by pouring it over the valve train washing the rest of the gunk down through the drain holes in the head. After getting the diesel in the crankcase, I took a 1/4" plastic air line and threaded it through the drain holes in the head until it got into the oil pan. The air line was then connected to an air compressor and the air turned on to cause the diesel to splash around in the crankcase to dissolve the gunk. I drained the crankcase and repeated the cleaning. After cleaning and reinstalling the valve cover, I installed a new oil filter then substituted a quart of Rislone for one quart of the new high detergent oil in the crankcase. I ran the car for several hundred miles and the oil was fairly clear
when I checked it. The little engine stayed clean and the oil wasn't that dirty when changed at 5,000 miles. I never had a problem with the engine which was still running quietly when I sold the car. ^_^

http://rislone.com/product/engine-treatment/

[8~{} Uncle Oil Monster

Way back in the Swamp Billy days, when the engine was a quart low on
oil -- we'd add a quart of kerosene to the oil. Run the car on the
road until the hydraulic lifters and push rods stopped making a
racket, cleared them of debris. Drain the oil and put in new oil.

A quart of ATF in the gas tank cleaned moisture from the fuel, lines,
fuel filter and carburetor.

Of course, then we played with dynamite as children

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 1:57:04 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:14:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:07:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

If you take a lot of short trips the oil can get contaminated with
moisture as it is not heated up enough to get rid of it. Over time
things can start to gum up, I'm told, thus the 6 month recommendation.
My wife's car used to be changed once a year. She never hit the miles
mark.

Makes sense. In the Mojave desert summers, it doesn't take much to
bring the engine temperature up, but I see the point of longer runs.

I'd take my vehicles out on the interstate for exercise on a regular basis and blow them out. I'd make several full throttle runs to burn the carbon off the plugs until the engine ran more smoothly. Even a horse needs exercise. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Car Monster

In Uncle Monster writes:

I'd take my vehicles out on the interstate for exercise on a regular basis and blow them out. I'd make several full throttle runs to burn the carbon off the plugs until the engine ran more smoothly. Even a horse needs exercise. ^_^

Don't forget filling them up with leaded gas to help replate
the pistons...

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 8/29/2015 2:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 8/29/2015 10:52 AM, rbowman wrote:
[snip]


While looking at cars, recently, I'd routinely pop the hood to
check to see what sort of maintenance hassles I would likely
encounter. If I couldn't *find* something (e.g., the first vehicle
I looked at had electric power steering -- "Where's the power
steering reservoir?"), I'd ask the salesman.

Talk about dumb-as-a-post... none of them knew the least bit
about what's under the hood. They were more interested in
how many *seats* it had or how fancy the sound system, etc.

[You'd think these guys would express an interest in the
PRODUCT they are selling! Esp as they probably spend a large
fraction of their day sitting around waiting for customers!]

Yeah, one would think that and one would be dead wrong. Reminds me that
the only difference between a car salesman and a computer technician is
that the car salesman KNOWS when he's lying to you!

On 8/29/2015 4:08 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I'd take my vehicles out on the interstate for exercise on a regular basis and blow them out. I'd make several full throttle runs to burn the carbon off the plugs until the engine ran more smoothly. Even a horse needs exercise. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Car Monster


Yeah, wasn't 1960 a great year? Clean the p lugs at 5000 miles and
replace them at 10 thousand. Now you can easily go 100,000 on a plug.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/29/2015 4:08 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I'd take my vehicles out on the interstate for exercise on a regular
basis and blow them out. I'd make several full throttle runs to burn
the carbon off the plugs until the engine ran more smoothly. Even a
horse needs exercise. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Car Monster


Yeah, wasn't 1960 a great year? Clean the p lugs at 5000 miles and
replace them at 10 thousand. Now you can easily go 100,000 on a plug.

Moving back little more, carb. and point and rotor cap time.
Adjusting dwell and timing with strobe light. Back little further
wrestling with generators, electro-mechanical regulators....
playing with carb. floats, tweaking mixture adj. screw, etc.
Today's cars are running much hotter than olden days. (more efficient)

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 2:47:43 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:31:13 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

Years ago, I had a K car with the 2.2Ltr 4cyl which had some miles on it and some gunk had built up in the engine. I drained the oil and with the valve cover off, I used a parts cleaning brush and diesel fuel to clean the valve train. I then poured a gallon of diesel into the crankcase by pouring it over the valve train washing the rest of the gunk down through the drain holes in the head. After getting the diesel in the crankcase, I took a 1/4" plastic air line and threaded it through the drain holes in the head until it got into the oil pan. The air line was then connected to an air compressor and the air turned on to cause the diesel to splash around in the crankcase to dissolve the gunk. I drained the crankcase and repeated the cleaning. After cleaning and reinstalling the valve cover, I installed a new oil filter then substituted a quart of Rislone for one quart of the new high detergent oil in the crankcase. I ran the car for several hundred miles and the oil was fairly clear
when I checked it. The little engine stayed clean and the oil wasn't that dirty when changed at 5,000 miles. I never had a problem with the engine which was still running quietly when I sold the car. ^_^

http://rislone.com/product/engine-treatment/

[8~{} Uncle Oil Monster

Way back in the Swamp Billy days, when the engine was a quart low on
oil -- we'd add a quart of kerosene to the oil. Run the car on the
road until the hydraulic lifters and push rods stopped making a
racket, cleared them of debris. Drain the oil and put in new oil.

A quart of ATF in the gas tank cleaned moisture from the fuel, lines,
fuel filter and carburetor.

Of course, then we played with dynamite as children

Yea, I used to make my own bombs when I lived out on the farm. The ATF worked better in the crankcase than kerosene and alcohol got the water out of the gas tank. I suppose the ATF worked as a top cylinder lube to help clean deposits out of the fuel system, off the valves and out of the cylinders but I didn't often add it to the gas tank. I'd use the stuff made for the purpose. I do remember using a product I bought from the auto supply house that was like syrup and it was made to be slowly poured into the carb while the engine was revved and you poured it until the engine stalled out. You let it soak for a while then cranked the engine and revved it until it ran smoothly while sending huge clouds of smoke out the tailpipe. This was in the years before cars had catalytic converters and oxygen sensors. Dammit, cars used to be a lot easier to work on. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Carbon Monster

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 3:20:25 PM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In Uncle Monster writes:

I'd take my vehicles out on the interstate for exercise on a regular basis and blow them out. I'd make several full throttle runs to burn the carbon off the plugs until the engine ran more smoothly. Even a horse needs exercise. ^_^

Don't forget filling them up with leaded gas to help replate
the pistons...
--
__________________________________________________ ___

The lead not only raised the octane but it lubricated the valve sealing surfaces. When all gasoline became lead free, the exhaust valve seats deteriorated on the older engines not designed for lead free gasoline. If you rebuild an older engine, you must get the heads modified with Stellite valve seats to cope with unleaded gasoline or always use a gasoline additive made to lubricate the valve seats. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Valve Monster

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 3:49:49 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/29/2015 4:08 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:


I'd take my vehicles out on the interstate for exercise on a regular
basis and blow them out. I'd make several full throttle runs to burn
the carbon off the plugs until the engine ran more smoothly. Even a
horse needs exercise. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Car Monster


Yeah, wasn't 1960 a great year? Clean the p lugs at 5000 miles and
replace them at 10 thousand. Now you can easily go 100,000 on a plug.

Moving back little more, carb. and point and rotor cap time.
Adjusting dwell and timing with strobe light. Back little further
wrestling with generators, electro-mechanical regulators....
playing with carb. floats, tweaking mixture adj. screw, etc.
Today's cars are running much hotter than olden days. (more efficient)

Heck some of the new engines have a separate coil plugged directly on to each spark plug. No more spark plug wires or distributor. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Spark Monster

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:56:57 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/29/2015 10:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 09:17 AM, Oren wrote:
Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage
engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

And if you follow the tightening instructions, unlike the teenage Godzilla at
QuickyLube, you might even be able to get the damn thing off without a lot of
drama at the next oil chance.

Note that the criteria for tightening an oil filter are *objective*;
wait for contact/resistance then go 1/4 turn. None of this
"hand tighten" nonsense!

OTOH, a film of oil on the filter makes even *that* difficult!


Bah. I have never used a filter wrench to tighten a filter. Done it
by hand. Snug it up to the block, a little effort to nudge it tight.
1/4 turn is that's what it took. Red shop rags gave me the grip
needed.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:45:31 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Sign of us getting old? I quit doing all
those things crawling under car.

I stopped when cars got computers. Don't have the tools; knowledge,
skills, or abilities (KSA's)

I did find the other day how to program the remote key Fobs for a '98
Toyota. Now I need to test the method and see if it works.

Enough research helps. I know my limits

On 8/29/2015 2:37 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:56:57 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/29/2015 10:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 09:17 AM, Oren wrote:
Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage
engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

And if you follow the tightening instructions, unlike the teenage Godzilla at
QuickyLube, you might even be able to get the damn thing off without a lot of
drama at the next oil chance.

Note that the criteria for tightening an oil filter are *objective*;
wait for contact/resistance then go 1/4 turn. None of this
"hand tighten" nonsense!

OTOH, a film of oil on the filter makes even *that* difficult!

Bah. I have never used a filter wrench to tighten a filter. Done it

Filter wrench is a Bad Idea. Way too easy for you to overtighten
the filter and end up with big-time problems when it comes time
to remove/replace it!

by hand. Snug it up to the block, a little effort to nudge it tight.
1/4 turn is that's what it took. Red shop rags gave me the grip
needed.

These little (small diameter) filters are a lot harder to wrap
an aging hand around *and* hold tight.

"Uncle Monster" wrote in message
...
revved it until it ran smoothly while sending huge clouds of smoke out the
tailpipe. This was in the years before cars had catalytic converters and
oxygen sensors. Dammit, cars used to be a lot easier to work on. o_O

Back then yhou had to work on cars more often. Now outside of oil, brakes,
tires, filters and lights there is nothing to do for around the first
100,000 miles.
The old cars required work every 10,000 or less.

On 08/29/2015 03:37 PM, Oren wrote:
Bah. I have never used a filter wrench to tighten a filter. Done it
by hand. Snug it up to the block, a little effort to nudge it tight.
1/4 turn is that's what it took. Red shop rags gave me the grip
needed.

I believe what Don meant by 'hand tighten nonsense' is George of the
Jungle will take that to mean 'keep turning until the veins stand out on
your forehead' rather than 1/4 turn past the first contact. Ol' George
reaches that point, says to himself 'that can't possibly be tight
enough' and gets two more full turns.

I do have a pet peeve about the style of filter wrenches that go on the
flats of the filter. They work great especially when removing a hot
filter covered with road grime -- but does every filter manufacturer
have to have their own special design? I'm starting to build a
collection. Two sizes I can understand -- big and little. It reminds me
of Shimano's penchant for coming up with a new, slightly different,
bottom bracket spline pattern every year.

On 08/29/2015 01:16 PM, Oren wrote:
Remember "bulk oil" in the glass jars, filled with recycled oil? 15
cents a quart

I remember a scheme described in Popular Science or Mechanix
Illustrated. Back when oil came in cans and you used a spout to puncture
the top, the guy build a 45 degree trough to put the empty cans in, hole
side down. The remaining dregs would trickle down into one of those
glass jars for resale

On 08/29/2015 01:31 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
I never had a problem with the engine which was still running quietly when I sold the car. ^_^

All that work for a K car? Red Green would have just converted it into a
log splitter or something.

On 08/29/2015 02:58 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
I do remember using a product I bought from the auto supply house that was like syrup and it was made to be slowly poured into the carb while the engine was revved and you poured it until the engine stalled out. You let it soak for a while then cranked the engine and revved it until it ran smoothly while sending huge clouds of smoke out the tailpipe. This was in the years before cars had catalytic converters and oxygen sensors. Dammit, cars used to be a lot easier to work on. o_O

A friend of mine had a '59 Chevy that had seen its better days. He'd
heard STP was the cat's nuts so he got some. We knew there was going to
be enough smoke involved to really **** off either of out mother's, so
we proceeded out to the old swimming hole for the maintenance procedure.
I should mention the Chevy was several different colors and the back
seat was filled with camping gear, snowshoes, and other debris.

Pop the hood, take off the air cleaner, and open the can of STP. It was
very syrupy, to the point of requiring a spoon to get it down the carb's
throat. We were getting the requisite clouds of smoke and figure it must
be working.

At this point, a New York State Trooper happens along and stops to
examine the crime scene. After determining we were just clueless college
kids, owned the rolling wreck, and all the merchandise in the rear seat,
his parting shot was "Oh, by the way, what you wanted was STP Gas
Treatment. You morons bought the Oil Treatment." From what I've been
reading they don't make cops like that anymore.

On 08/29/2015 07:00 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Back then yhou had to work on cars more often. Now outside of oil, brakes,
tires, filters and lights there is nothing to do for around the first
100,000 miles.
The old cars required work every 10,000 or less.

Yeah, I've got a dwell tach, timing light, and vacuum/pressure gauge
that are getting really lonely. I checked the valve gap on one of the
bikes a few weeks ago just for old times' sake but they were good.

On 08/29/2015 12:45 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

So far we're all reviewing/refreshing common sense knowledge
gained over time. Sign of us getting old? I quit doing all
those things crawling under car.

I've been working on cars for well over fifty years and it's sort of a
habit. I figure it's sort of a test. When I get down on the ground and
have to call a neighbor to help me up it's time for the exit plan.

Besides with the bikes I'm a little paranoid. More than one person has
had an unexpected exit from this vale of tears because a mechanic forgot
to replace an axle nut, etc. I'm not saying I've never screwed anything
up but I don't need professional help to do so.

On 08/29/2015 12:53 PM, Oren wrote:
Or any other part that may need replaced. Mark it. Now days, just
demand old parts be returned or shown to you, in case there may be a
core charge. Brake calipers have a core charge as do some other parts.

I've thought about doing that with Netflix. When I send a DVD back
because it won't play, I could add a .357 diameter hole so I'd recognize
it if they sent the same one back

On 08/29/2015 02:49 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Moving back little more, carb. and point and rotor cap time.
Adjusting dwell and timing with strobe light. Back little further
wrestling with generators, electro-mechanical regulators....
playing with carb. floats, tweaking mixture adj. screw, etc.
Today's cars are running much hotter than olden days. (more efficient)

It kept things interesting... I remember one Buick 225 in particular.
The timing mark was on the crankshaft pulley as usual. However to reduce
vibration, the outer part of the pulley was isolated from the hub by an
elastomer ring. Get everything lined up, goose the engine, and the mark
would move since the elastomer bond had failed.

On 08/29/2015 03:22 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
Heck some of the new engines have a separate coil plugged directly on to each spark plug. No more spark plug wires or distributor. ^_^

Yep. I'm one of those people that open the hood when I'm looking at a
new car to make sure I can work on the thing. The Yaris has a polymer
cover over the top of the engine and I assumed the plug wires were
hiding under it, not wanting to start taking the car apart with the
salesman standing there. closer inspection after the purchase showed
there was nothing under there but 4 little plugs with their individual,
computer controlled, coils. At least I could see all 4 lined up in a
row. I have bad memories of cars where only 6 or 7 of the 8 were accessible.

On 08/29/2015 01:01 PM, Don Y wrote:
While looking at cars, recently, I'd routinely pop the hood to
check to see what sort of maintenance hassles I would likely
encounter. If I couldn't *find* something (e.g., the first vehicle
I looked at had electric power steering -- "Where's the power
steering reservoir?"), I'd ask the salesman.

Man after my own heart...

Talk about dumb-as-a-post... none of them knew the least bit
about what's under the hood. They were more interested in
how many *seats* it had or how fancy the sound system, etc.

I had a 2007 Yaris that suffered death by snowplow in 2011. I liked it
so I didn't bother shopping around and just went back for another one.
The salesman was trying to show me the features of the car and not doing
a good job. Finally I just said 'I've been driving an essentially
identical car for the last three years. Let's just go back to your
office and get this done.' That was fun too. I told him I was paying
cash but he just couldn't help going off on his pre-programmed financing
spiel.

I think what was under the hood was safe from that guy. I had to show
him how to open the hatchback and that's strictly turn the key and push.

On 8/29/2015 6:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 03:37 PM, Oren wrote:
Bah. I have never used a filter wrench to tighten a filter. Done it
by hand. Snug it up to the block, a little effort to nudge it tight.
1/4 turn is that's what it took. Red shop rags gave me the grip
needed.

I believe what Don meant by 'hand tighten nonsense' is George of the Jungle
will take that to mean 'keep turning until the veins stand out on your
forehead' rather than 1/4 turn past the first contact. Ol' George reaches that
point, says to himself 'that can't possibly be tight enough' and gets two more
full turns.

Exactly. OTOH, I had actually *marked* the scale on one of my (beam style)
torque wrenches to indicate the point to which the drain plug was to be
tightened. (can't read the scale when it's facing the garage floor; sure
as hell can't read it when it's facing the block!)

I do have a pet peeve about the style of filter wrenches that go on the flats
of the filter. They work great especially when removing a hot filter covered
with road grime -- but does every filter manufacturer have to have their own
special design? I'm starting to build a collection. Two sizes I can understand
-- big and little.

+1 You only really need them to break a stuck filter loose.
I had one "small" one that itself was two different sizes -- small
and a smidgeon *smaller*. Wasn't worth the plastic it was made out of
as it would easily cam out of the *smaller* fitting and, of course, the
"small" fitting was too loose...

It reminds me of Shimano's penchant for coming up with a
new, slightly different, bottom bracket spline pattern every year.

On 8/29/2015 6:41 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 01:16 PM, Oren wrote:
Remember "bulk oil" in the glass jars, filled with recycled oil? 15
cents a quart

I remember a scheme described in Popular Science or Mechanix Illustrated. Back
when oil came in cans and you used a spout to puncture the top, the guy build a
45 degree trough to put the empty cans in, hole side down. The remaining dregs
would trickle down into one of those glass jars for resale

My Dad would take used motor oil to work where they would burn it
in the heat-treating furnaces...

On 8/29/2015 7:04 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/29/2015 12:45 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

So far we're all reviewing/refreshing common sense knowledge
gained over time. Sign of us getting old? I quit doing all
those things crawling under car.

I've been working on cars for well over fifty years and it's sort of a habit. I
figure it's sort of a test. When I get down on the ground and have to call a
neighbor to help me up it's time for the exit plan.

Ditto. I like having a look under the hood/car routinely just
to get an idea of anything that *might* be happening there
(out of sight, out of mind?)

It's also sort of a pleasant puzzle to learn more effective
ways of doing these sorts of things.

E.g., on my car, to change the back plugs, it's far easier to
pull the front wheels off and go in through the wheel wells
than to try to work around the exhaust manifold, etc.

Likewise, SWMBO's old vehicle was easier to remove the oil filter
by turning wheels right and reaching in *front* of rightmost
wheel to (just barely) get your had on the filter. Trying
to do so from above was a fool's game (firewall too close).

Besides with the bikes I'm a little paranoid. More than one person has had an
unexpected exit from this vale of tears because a mechanic forgot to replace an
axle nut, etc. I'm not saying I've never screwed anything up but I don't need
professional help to do so.

Out of the dealer, SWMBO's vehicle had a noisey headliner. Hell, car
is just a few days old, let *them* fix it! Got the car back with
grease stains, extra screws in the cup holders, etc. Doesn't do much
to build confidence in the SERVICE you're getting!