Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

badgolferman wrote:
Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

I drive Acura MDX and oil change interval varies depending on driving
condition and weather. Yes, dash shows oil life by percentage and
when it nears zero it triggers service reminder as an alpha numeric code.
Today's oil lasts long time. If you want to change oil yourself, you'll
have to know how to tell the computer on board, oil is changed. In the
case of Acura, if you don't it'll not remind next oil change. In
addition, spark plugs last LONG time too. I use Iridium plugs and it can
last life time of the car. Seems like oil life decreases faster when
you do high speed, high temp. long highway driving. My oil life is
sitting at 30% at present. Last oil change was last November. I change
wife's car oil and I do it only once a year since new, no problem at
all. I notice some new cars don't even have dip stick any more. On BMW
that is an optional add-on. My son uses synthetic oil on his WRX STi.
He changes it once a year. I notice he uses Red line from day 1. My car
uses 5W-20 Honda brand oil at the dealer all the time.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message ...

I drive Acura MDX and oil change interval varies depending on driving
condition and weather.


What Tony Wanger is sayin' it that he drives one of them Jap rice burners.
A real piece of ****. Up here in the Great White North real men drive Ford
trucks, and we gets plenty of poon tang with 'em.
Just sayin'.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message ...
badgolferman wrote:
Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

I drive Acura MDX and oil change interval varies depending on driving
condition and weather. Yes, dash shows oil life by percentage and
when it nears zero it triggers service reminder as an alpha numeric code.
Today's oil lasts long time. If you want to change oil yourself, you'll
have to know how to tell the computer on board, oil is changed. In the
case of Acura, if you don't it'll not remind next oil change. In
addition, spark plugs last LONG time too. I use Iridium plugs and it can
last life time of the car. Seems like oil life decreases faster when
you do high speed, high temp. long highway driving. My oil life is
sitting at 30% at present. Last oil change was last November. I change
wife's car oil and I do it only once a year since new, no problem at
all. I notice some new cars don't even have dip stick any more. On BMW
that is an optional add-on. My son uses synthetic oil on his WRX STi.
He changes it once a year. I notice he uses Red line from day 1. My car
uses 5W-20 Honda brand oil at the dealer all the time.

I stick with what the mfr recommends as far as what oil to use. I don't know about newer cars, but for mine I just go by time and mileage. My experience is to check the dip stick when oil is fresh, rub the oil between fingers, smell it, put a drop on a white paper towel. Not every time, but just for curiosity, I have kept a pill bottle with some of the new oil and compare it as time goes on, then pour some from the filter and compare next time t's changed.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:56:12 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles

Unless Toyota is different, that "service" light is fir the EGR

wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:56:12 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles

Unless Toyota is different, that "service" light is fir the EGR

Yes, the service light is a reminder to change your oil. It flashes
momentarily at 4500 miles when you startup your car and stays on at
5000 miles. It can be reset by holding the trip zero button for five
seconds while turning on the car.

There is a Check Engine light for other maintenance codes that the
computer spits out.

On 8/27/2015 9:24 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
badgolferman wrote:
Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

I drive Acura MDX and oil change interval varies depending on driving
condition and weather. Yes, dash shows oil life by percentage and
when it nears zero it triggers service reminder as an alpha numeric code.
Today's oil lasts long time. If you want to change oil yourself, you'll
have to know how to tell the computer on board, oil is changed. In the
case of Acura, if you don't it'll not remind next oil change. In
addition, spark plugs last LONG time too. I use Iridium plugs and it can
last life time of the car. Seems like oil life decreases faster when
you do high speed, high temp. long highway driving. My oil life is
sitting at 30% at present. Last oil change was last November. I change
wife's car oil and I do it only once a year since new, no problem at
all. I notice some new cars don't even have dip stick any more. On BMW
that is an optional add-on. My son uses synthetic oil on his WRX STi.
He changes it once a year. I notice he uses Red line from day 1. My car
uses 5W-20 Honda brand oil at the dealer all the time.

10K should be fine for synthetic. On Toyotas, the service light is
strictly by mileage. It comes on every 5000 miles. On the vehicles with
synthetic oil the 5000, 15000, etc., is for tire rotation only, while
the 10,000, 20,000, etc is for an oii change.

On conventional oil Toyotas (we have three) I do every 5K. Probably a
bit too often but it's easy to remember and that's the recommended
interval for "severe service," while the interval for "normal service"
is 7500 miles.

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

On 8/27/2015 8:56 AM, badgolferman wrote:
Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

10K is a good number for synthetics. But, you're best to consult the
recommendations of the auto maker for specifics. Esp if the vehicle
has any factory warranty remaining (some dealers want to see proof
that you've adhered to the maintenance schedule).

Our last vehicle saw oil changes every *3000* miles -- simply because
*6000* would have been "once a year" (I'm not comfortable with that
sort of time -- given the fact that ALL of our driving is "short trips",
"stop 'n' go", with much of that spent in temperatures above 100F!

I figure the cost of the materials (oil + "genuine" filter) was peanuts
(Our 13 year maintenance costs for the vehicle -- not counting oil
changes -- was $1K). So, throwing an *extra* $30 into the car each
year (two oil changes instead of one) didn't feel extravagant.

You should also investigate *how* the "maintenance minder" is driven.
Some are mileage/time based. Current car appears to actually note the
type of driving that we do (and, perhaps, the fact that the car is brand
new causes it to be more aggressive on the "first service").

*Do* keep a written log of your service. More than once it saved
my ass when the maintenance light turned on (given our 3K service
practice, it should NEVER have turned on -- unless something was
REALLY broken!). Having the log allowed me to look at the current
odometer, the recorded odometer from my last service *and* the
odometer from the service BEFORE THAT!
"Ah, this is 5000 miles since the service BEFORE the last
service! I suspect I *forgot* to reset the indicator at the
last service and the car now thinks it's time for the *last*
service! Just reset it and watch to make sure it doesn't
reassert itself..."

I then started adding another notation to each service entry:
"reset service indicator" as "proof" that I'd done so!

On 08/27/2015 01:10 PM, sms wrote:
10K should be fine for synthetic. On Toyotas, the service light is
strictly by mileage. It comes on every 5000 miles. On the vehicles with
synthetic oil the 5000, 15000, etc., is for tire rotation only, while
the 10,000, 20,000, etc is for an oii change.

Being one of those people who actually reads the manuals, I was amused
by the recommendations for the Yaris. To sum it up, change the oil and
rotate the tires every 5000 miles. The last Yaris ihad you got to
break the monotony by changing the coolant every two years.

On 08/27/2015 01:31 PM, Don Y wrote:
Our last vehicle saw oil changes every *3000* miles -- simply because
*6000* would have been "once a year" (I'm not comfortable with that
sort of time -- given the fact that ALL of our driving is "short trips",
"stop 'n' go", with much of that spent in temperatures above 100F!

The trucking company I drove for pulled samples and had them analyzed.
When I first started the oil changes were every 12,000, about once a
month, which runs about $120. After going to the Detroit 60 engines,
they increased the interval to 20,000. I was talking to the shop foreman
and he said they weren't seeing significant degradation at 20,000 but
they weren't comfortable going past that or the drivers never would get
an oil change.

Of course, a diesel is not a gasoline engine.

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 10:36:18 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:56:12 +0000 (UTC), "badgolferman"
wrote:

My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles

Unless Toyota is different, that "service" light is fir the EGR

This was true about 30 years ago.

On 8/28/2015 12:12 AM, rbowman wrote:

The trucking company I drove for pulled samples and had them analyzed.
When I first started the oil changes were every 12,000, about once a
month, which runs about $120. After going to the Detroit 60 engines,
they increased the interval to 20,000. I was talking to the shop foreman
and he said they weren't seeing significant degradation at 20,000 but
they weren't comfortable going past that or the drivers never would get
an oil change.

Of course, a diesel is not a gasoline engine.

I don't have any details, didn't ask. A friend of mine
from church used to sell some kind of oil processing
unit which installs onto trucks. Makes the motor oil
life time pretty much forever.

I'd guess with the big rigs, that oil changes are
expensive, my friend said some thing like 5 or 6 gal
of Shell Rotella or other diesel oil per oil change.
Even if you do it at your own shop, that adds up.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 08/28/2015 07:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd guess with the big rigs, that oil changes are
expensive, my friend said some thing like 5 or 6 gal
of Shell Rotella or other diesel oil per oil change.
Even if you do it at your own shop, that adds up.

The Detroit 60 takes ten gallons of oil and three filters, counting the
fuel filter. I started using Rotella T6 in one of the bikes and will
swithc the others over on their next change. If you watch sales
sometimes you can get a gallon for close to $20. The non-synthetic
Rotella isn't that much cheaper. Even if you buy a 55 gallon drum it's
over $10 a gallon.

Assuming a truck puts on 120,000 miles a year you can see why a 20,000
mile interval is preferred to the traditional 12,000. The savings will
be enough to buy a couple of tires and a taco.

On 8/28/2015 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/28/2015 07:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'd guess with the big rigs, that oil changes are
expensive, my friend said some thing like 5 or 6 gal
of Shell Rotella or other diesel oil per oil change.
Even if you do it at your own shop, that adds up.

The Detroit 60 takes ten gallons of oil and three filters, counting the
fuel filter. I started using Rotella T6 in one of the bikes and will
swithc the others over on their next change. If you watch sales
sometimes you can get a gallon for close to $20. The non-synthetic
Rotella isn't that much cheaper. Even if you buy a 55 gallon drum it's
over $10 a gallon.

Assuming a truck puts on 120,000 miles a year you can see why a 20,000
mile interval is preferred to the traditional 12,000. The savings will
be enough to buy a couple of tires and a taco.

Thanks, I didn't know there was so much money involved
in the oil change. Gives me a different perspective
on long haul driving. Lot of hidden expenses.

Of course, most business are like that. Plenty of hidden
expenses.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 11:56:18 AM UTC-4, badgolferman wrote:
Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

Today 10K is very reasonable, probably on the conservative side, for
synthetic and typical driving conditions. BMW for example was
at ~15K with normal driving,
though I think they more recently cut that back to 10K and I'm
comfortable with that. BMW like many other autos today use your
actual driving conditions to come up with the exact number for
the change interval. Porsche was at 15K too, think they pushed
it to 20K more recently.

IMO, if you're using synthetic and changing it at 3K, or 5K,
you're just tossing the extra money for synthetic out the window.

On 08/28/2015 12:06 PM, trader_4 wrote:

Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

Today 10K is very reasonable, probably on the conservative side, for
synthetic and typical driving conditions. BMW for example was
at ~15K with normal driving,
though I think they more recently cut that back to 10K and I'm
comfortable with that. BMW like many other autos today use your
actual driving conditions to come up with the exact number for
the change interval. Porsche was at 15K too, think they pushed
it to 20K more recently.

IMO, if you're using synthetic and changing it at 3K, or 5K,
you're just tossing the extra money for synthetic out the window.

We're using Castrol High-Mileage oil (which I think is partly synthetic)
in our 13-yr-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

Perce

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:08:02 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

I think part of the assumption there is that if you're not hitting the
miles limit, then you're probably driving it for shorter distances,
where the car doesn't have time to warm up properly to drive off moisture,
so the oil winds up compromised from that. Which is why the new method
where the car computer keeps track of the actual usage conditions is
better than a fixed schedule. But I've also never seen data that shows
oil is indeed compromised in a year if the car is just driven lightly.
You could probably go way beyond that and it would still be fine. I'd
be more worried about the miles than the time.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:25:50 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:08:02 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

I think part of the assumption there is that if you're not hitting the
miles limit, then you're probably driving it for shorter distances,
where the car doesn't have time to warm up properly to drive off moisture,
so the oil winds up compromised from that. Which is why the new method
where the car computer keeps track of the actual usage conditions is
better than a fixed schedule. But I've also never seen data that shows
oil is indeed compromised in a year if the car is just driven lightly.
You could probably go way beyond that and it would still be fine. I'd
be more worried about the miles than the time.

my 2014 Avalon also uses synthetic

10,000 is longer than we used to change oil

how about 7,500 miles as a compromise?
especially since you are changing it yourself, and saving a few bucks

[it gets pricey, having someone else do a synthetic oil change]

marc

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 3:10:43 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:25:50 AM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:08:02 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

I think part of the assumption there is that if you're not hitting the
miles limit, then you're probably driving it for shorter distances,
where the car doesn't have time to warm up properly to drive off moisture,
so the oil winds up compromised from that. Which is why the new method
where the car computer keeps track of the actual usage conditions is
better than a fixed schedule. But I've also never seen data that shows
oil is indeed compromised in a year if the car is just driven lightly.
You could probably go way beyond that and it would still be fine. I'd
be more worried about the miles than the time.

my 2014 Avalon also uses synthetic

10,000 is longer than we used to change oil

how about 7,500 miles as a compromise?
especially since you are changing it yourself, and saving a few bucks

[it gets pricey, having someone else do a synthetic oil change]

marc

When the oil change interval was typically 5,000 miles, we also didn't
use synthetic oil which is a very different product. In this case
the vehicle manufacturer says 10K and that would be good enough for me.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:08:02 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

I think part of the assumption there is that if you're not hitting the
miles limit, then you're probably driving it for shorter distances,
where the car doesn't have time to warm up properly to drive off moisture,
so the oil winds up compromised from that. Which is why the new method
where the car computer keeps track of the actual usage conditions is
better than a fixed schedule. But I've also never seen data that shows
oil is indeed compromised in a year if the car is just driven lightly.
You could probably go way beyond that and it would still be fine. I'd
be more worried about the miles than the time.

I get the notion of burning moisture from the oil. Neighbor, with two
Vettes, drives one every day, early morning. One stays in his garage -
the same one is not driven regularly.

Doesn't take short drive to remove condensation from the oil? A run
to the beverage store? (grin)

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 1:11:00 PM UTC-6, sms wrote:
On 8/27/2015 9:24 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
badgolferman wrote:
Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

I drive Acura MDX and oil change interval varies depending on driving
condition and weather. Yes, dash shows oil life by percentage and
when it nears zero it triggers service reminder as an alpha numeric code.
Today's oil lasts long time. If you want to change oil yourself, you'll
have to know how to tell the computer on board, oil is changed. In the
case of Acura, if you don't it'll not remind next oil change. In
addition, spark plugs last LONG time too. I use Iridium plugs and it can
last life time of the car. Seems like oil life decreases faster when
you do high speed, high temp. long highway driving. My oil life is
sitting at 30% at present. Last oil change was last November. I change
wife's car oil and I do it only once a year since new, no problem at
all. I notice some new cars don't even have dip stick any more. On BMW
that is an optional add-on. My son uses synthetic oil on his WRX STi.
He changes it once a year. I notice he uses Red line from day 1. My car
uses 5W-20 Honda brand oil at the dealer all the time.

10K should be fine for synthetic. On Toyotas, the service light is
strictly by mileage. It comes on every 5000 miles. On the vehicles with
synthetic oil the 5000, 15000, etc., is for tire rotation only, while
the 10,000, 20,000, etc is for an oii change.

On conventional oil Toyotas (we have three) I do every 5K. Probably a
bit too often but it's easy to remember and that's the recommended
interval for "severe service," while the interval for "normal service"
is 7500 miles.

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked. Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.
=====

On 08/28/2015 05:41 PM, Roy wrote:

Sorry for the off topic post, but the Toyota and Lexus newsgroups are
dead. Since there are plenty of knowledgeable and opinionated people
here I am throwing this out for your comments.

Five months ago I bought a certified 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16K miles
from the dealer. The first service call is complimentary and that
includes an oil change. My dashboard service light came on around 5K
miles so I called the dealer to schedule the oil change. They told me
this vehicle uses synthetic motor oil and recommended oil change
intervals are 10K miles. I looked in the service manual and sure
enough that's true.

http://www.lexus.com/pdf/service/RX_WSG.pdf

In my Toyotas I would change the oil at 5K miles using conventional
oil. It makes me somewhat nervous to go 10K miles between changes but
I guess synthetic is that much better and doesn't get dirty or break
down. I've reached the 10K mile point and am going in today for the
service.

The next oil change will be done by myself. Does anyone else use
synthetic motor oil and how long do you go between changing it? What
brand do you use?

I drive Acura MDX and oil change interval varies depending on driving
condition and weather. Yes, dash shows oil life by percentage and
when it nears zero it triggers service reminder as an alpha numeric code.
Today's oil lasts long time. If you want to change oil yourself, you'll
have to know how to tell the computer on board, oil is changed. In the
case of Acura, if you don't it'll not remind next oil change. In
addition, spark plugs last LONG time too. I use Iridium plugs and it can
last life time of the car. Seems like oil life decreases faster when
you do high speed, high temp. long highway driving. My oil life is
sitting at 30% at present. Last oil change was last November. I change
wife's car oil and I do it only once a year since new, no problem at
all. I notice some new cars don't even have dip stick any more. On BMW
that is an optional add-on. My son uses synthetic oil on his WRX STi.
He changes it once a year. I notice he uses Red line from day 1. My car
uses 5W-20 Honda brand oil at the dealer all the time.

10K should be fine for synthetic. On Toyotas, the service light is
strictly by mileage. It comes on every 5000 miles. On the vehicles with
synthetic oil the 5000, 15000, etc., is for tire rotation only, while
the 10,000, 20,000, etc is for an oii change.

On conventional oil Toyotas (we have three) I do every 5K. Probably a
bit too often but it's easy to remember and that's the recommended
interval for "severe service," while the interval for "normal service"
is 7500 miles.

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked. Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.
=====

Decades ago in another country a cousin of mine was getting oil filters
for his car from a friend who worked at an auto shop and was getting new
filters for service jobs but leaving the old filter in place.

Perce

On 8/28/2015 2:41 PM, Roy wrote:

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked. Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

Our current vehicle recommends replacing the filter on every *other*
oil change. Needless to say, we won't be pinching those pennies!

A quick photo of the old filter (from which you can note it's actual
orientation) might reassure you in the future.

Don Y wrote:
On 8/28/2015 2:41 PM, Roy wrote:

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s
hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color
between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked.
Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

Our current vehicle recommends replacing the filter on every *other*
oil change. Needless to say, we won't be pinching those pennies!

A quick photo of the old filter (from which you can note it's actual
orientation) might reassure you in the future.

It is so wasteful changing oil and filter too often.
Today's oil is rather chemical soup with all kinda additives,
filter materials improved over time too. New vehicles particularly
don't need change like olden days.

On 8/28/2015 3:15 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Don Y wrote:
On 8/28/2015 2:41 PM, Roy wrote:

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s
hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color
between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked.
Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

Our current vehicle recommends replacing the filter on every *other*
oil change. Needless to say, we won't be pinching those pennies!

A quick photo of the old filter (from which you can note it's actual
orientation) might reassure you in the future.

It is so wasteful changing oil and filter too often.
Today's oil is rather chemical soup with all kinda additives,
filter materials improved over time too. New vehicles particularly
don't need change like olden days.

The *car* decides the appropriate maintenance schedule. Replacing
the filter "every other oil change" saves very little in terms of
parts, labor *or* oil! (the oil remaining in the filter will NOT be
changed if the filter isn't... all of perhaps a whole *cup* of oil).

We've expressed concern that the "oil life (indicator)" is rapidly
falling -- "80%" at ~600 miles (a month of driving). Best case, that
"80%" is really "89%" suggesting a change interval of ~6,000 miles.
Worst case, it's *actually* 80% suggesting an interval of ~3,000 miles.
(We'll be more observant to note exactly when it displays "70%")

OTOH, our average driving speed (according to the vehicle) has been
*16* MPH for those 600 miles in outdoor temperatures of 105+. No
doubt considerably harder on a new engine than "highway driving".

[It would be interesting if the vehicle tracked -- and reported -- the
average trip length, number of "starts", etc. I'll have to check to
see what's accessible along those lines...]

Don Y wrote:
On 8/28/2015 3:15 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Don Y wrote:
On 8/28/2015 2:41 PM, Roy wrote:

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s
hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color
between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked.
Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

Our current vehicle recommends replacing the filter on every *other*
oil change. Needless to say, we won't be pinching those pennies!

A quick photo of the old filter (from which you can note it's actual
orientation) might reassure you in the future.

It is so wasteful changing oil and filter too often.
Today's oil is rather chemical soup with all kinda additives,
filter materials improved over time too. New vehicles particularly
don't need change like olden days.

The *car* decides the appropriate maintenance schedule. Replacing
the filter "every other oil change" saves very little in terms of
parts, labor *or* oil! (the oil remaining in the filter will NOT be
changed if the filter isn't... all of perhaps a whole *cup* of oil).

We've expressed concern that the "oil life (indicator)" is rapidly
falling -- "80%" at ~600 miles (a month of driving). Best case, that
"80%" is really "89%" suggesting a change interval of ~6,000 miles.
Worst case, it's *actually* 80% suggesting an interval of ~3,000 miles.
(We'll be more observant to note exactly when it displays "70%")

OTOH, our average driving speed (according to the vehicle) has been
*16* MPH for those 600 miles in outdoor temperatures of 105+. No
doubt considerably harder on a new engine than "highway driving".

[It would be interesting if the vehicle tracked -- and reported -- the
average trip length, number of "starts", etc. I'll have to check to
see what's accessible along those lines...]

Some new vehicles can store and display all kinda info. There are too
many information. Oil life percentage indicator change rate varies as
well. In winter numbers go down faster than summer. After highway
cruising it goes down faster. I don't do stop and go type driving much.
Freeway and ring road is only couple blocks from home so as soon as I
leave home heading downtown it is freeway driving doing ~70mph. When I
go out to our cabin we're on ring road doing ~80mph. It keeps the engine
clean and engine lasts longer.

On 8/28/2015 7:31 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Don Y wrote:
On 8/28/2015 3:15 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Don Y wrote:
On 8/28/2015 2:41 PM, Roy wrote:

Recreational oil changers still do every 3000 miles though there's no
benefit to doing so.

I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s
hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color
between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked.
Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

Our current vehicle recommends replacing the filter on every *other*
oil change. Needless to say, we won't be pinching those pennies!

A quick photo of the old filter (from which you can note it's actual
orientation) might reassure you in the future.

It is so wasteful changing oil and filter too often.
Today's oil is rather chemical soup with all kinda additives,
filter materials improved over time too. New vehicles particularly
don't need change like olden days.

The *car* decides the appropriate maintenance schedule. Replacing
the filter "every other oil change" saves very little in terms of
parts, labor *or* oil! (the oil remaining in the filter will NOT be
changed if the filter isn't... all of perhaps a whole *cup* of oil).

We've expressed concern that the "oil life (indicator)" is rapidly
falling -- "80%" at ~600 miles (a month of driving). Best case, that
"80%" is really "89%" suggesting a change interval of ~6,000 miles.
Worst case, it's *actually* 80% suggesting an interval of ~3,000 miles.
(We'll be more observant to note exactly when it displays "70%")

OTOH, our average driving speed (according to the vehicle) has been
*16* MPH for those 600 miles in outdoor temperatures of 105+. No
doubt considerably harder on a new engine than "highway driving".

[It would be interesting if the vehicle tracked -- and reported -- the
average trip length, number of "starts", etc. I'll have to check to
see what's accessible along those lines...]

Some new vehicles can store and display all kinda info. There are too many

I've not yet looked into the OBD software -- instead, just trying
to get a feel for what the *driver* sees.

information. Oil life percentage indicator change rate varies as well. In
winter numbers go down faster than summer. After highway cruising it goes down
faster. I don't do stop and go type driving much.
Freeway and ring road is only couple blocks from home so as soon as I
leave home heading downtown it is freeway driving doing ~70mph. When I
go out to our cabin we're on ring road doing ~80mph. It keeps the engine clean
and engine lasts longer.

Exactly. *Our* style of driving is "short hops" -- often JUST "many blocks"
between stops. E.g., "grocery day" consists of perhaps 6 stops over a
course of 4 or 5 miles. Hence the reason our average speed is so low. The
car spends all of its time "getting started" instead of *running*. Couple
that with any bias the software may *deliberately* introduce for "first
service" and we expect the maintenance interval to be short. But, if
it turns out ot be just 3K miles, we'll be very concerned with the
*second* interval!

On 08/28/2015 09:53 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thanks, I didn't know there was so much money involved
in the oil change. Gives me a different perspective
on long haul driving. Lot of hidden expenses.

Most of them aren't all that hidden. Back in the '90s tires were going
for around $270 a pop and there's a lot of them. When you're driving at
least ten hours a day you have plenty of time to think about things, so
I investigated buying a rig rather than being a company driver. My
conclusion was most owner operators thought they were making money
because they were better drivers than bookkeepers. The golden age of
trucking was long gone by then.

Consider fuel. Fuel economy has improved but then you were doing good to
average 6 mpg and you could run about 600 miles a day legally assuming
you could get the loads. So you're buying 100 gallons about every day.
At least you get a free shower most times.

I thought about hot shots:

http://www.overdriveonline.com/hotsh...l-truck-niche/

The lower entry and operating costs are attractive. The biggest problem
is the areas where hot shots are most feasible are places I don't want
to be.

On 08/28/2015 11:07 AM, Oren wrote:
I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

One of the worst things for a car is the little old lady who drives it 3
miles to church on Sunday.

On 08/28/2015 03:41 PM, Roy wrote:
I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

I know exactly what happens for my oil changes. I pull into the
driveway, put a pan under the engine, and remove the drain plug. While
it's draining, I get out 4 quarts of oil and a filter. When the oil is
drained, I remove the filter, being careful not to drop it into the pan
of old oil. Screw a new filter on, replace the plug, and refill the
engine. Start it up to check for leaks, then turn it off and recheck the
oil level adding a little more if needed. Reset the check engine light,
record the mileage in the maintenance book, and I'm good to go. It takes
almost a half hour if I get distracted.

Oh yeah, and while I'm on the ground removing the plug, I check to make
sure there are no dead skunks caught in the suspension and so forth.

On 8/28/2015 8:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/28/2015 03:41 PM, Roy wrote:
I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

I know exactly what happens for my oil changes. I pull into the driveway, put a
pan under the engine, and remove the drain plug. While it's draining, I get out
4 quarts of oil and a filter. When the oil is drained, I remove the filter,
being careful not to drop it into the pan of old oil. Screw a new filter on,
replace the plug, and refill the engine. Start it up to check for leaks, then
turn it off and recheck the oil level adding a little more if needed. Reset the

If you fill the filter with oil before screwing it on, you won't have to add,
later. I've found that you can get a *lot* of oil into a DRY filter -- even
if the filter is mounted "opening down" (e.g., like on Subaru's). The
filter pleats capture and hold the oil (even if you can't *completely* fill
the filter due to risk of it running out while you are screwing it on.
"Wetting" the O-ring on the filter with a bit of fresh oil also helps
improve the seal to the block.

I've a box of surgical gloves that I *never* remember to wear (just one
hand) until after I've finished. On those times when I do, it makes it
a lot easier to clean up (put the used filter *in* the glove after
taking the glove off so it doesn't leak oil unexpectedly).

check engine light, record the mileage in the maintenance book, and I'm good to
go. It takes almost a half hour if I get distracted.

I add all the other ancillary "checks" at the same time:
- power steering fluid (on cars that have PS pumps)
- brake fluid
- windshield washer fluid
- coolant level
- specific gravity of each battery cell
- check CV boots
- run my finger along the rotors to check if they're getting "grooved"
- lubricate door/hood/trunk locks
- cursory examination of the vehicle's undercarriage

Afterwards, I give a cursory examination of the waste oil -- looking for
other fluids (none!), metal chips, etc.

It's still a 30 minute job. And, you KNOW the oil got changed, the drain
plug *did* get reinstalled, etc.

Oh yeah, and while I'm on the ground removing the plug, I check to make sure
there are no dead skunks caught in the suspension and so forth.

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:07:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:57:14 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

-old (140K miles) Chrysler and doing oil changes at about
4000 miles. The owner's manual doesn't mention synthetic lubricants but
specifies a time period after which oil should be changed -- "x miles
or x months, whichever comes first."

I've never understood the "x months" thing. If the car is not being
driven, except on Sunday, why change the oil until the "x mileage" is
reached?

If you take a lot of short trips the oil can get contaminated with
moisture as it is not heated up enough to get rid of it. Over time
things can start to gum up, I'm told, thus the 6 month recommendation.
My wife's car used to be changed once a year. She never hit the miles
mark.

On 8/28/2015 5:41 PM, Roy wrote:
I took my van to my dealer for a routine oil change at 5000 KM.
When I checked the oil a month later and lo and behold the *******s hadn't changed the oil at all. It was quite dark and
usually after a change is is very light colored.
With these modern engines and modern oils the oil hardly changes color between changes...but this was a give-away that they were crooked. Needless to say it couldn't be proven so I changed
to another shop and no problem now.

I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.
=====


I think it's a good idea to get under, and write the
oil change date on the oil filter, permanant marker.
That way you can tell if they did the work, by the
color of the oil and the date on the filter.

One friend of mine in South Carolina had one of those
oil non-changes. He wasn't pleased.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:42:01 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

If you fill the filter with oil before screwing it on, you won't have to add,
later. I've found that you can get a *lot* of oil into a DRY filter -- even
if the filter is mounted "opening down" (e.g., like on Subaru's). The
filter pleats capture and hold the oil (even if you can't *completely* fill
the filter due to risk of it running out while you are screwing it on.
"Wetting" the O-ring on the filter with a bit of fresh oil also helps
improve the seal to the block.


Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage
engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

On 8/29/2015 8:17 AM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:42:01 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

If you fill the filter with oil before screwing it on, you won't have to add,
later. I've found that you can get a *lot* of oil into a DRY filter -- even
if the filter is mounted "opening down" (e.g., like on Subaru's). The
filter pleats capture and hold the oil (even if you can't *completely* fill
the filter due to risk of it running out while you are screwing it on.
"Wetting" the O-ring on the filter with a bit of fresh oil also helps
improve the seal to the block.

Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage

Yes. But, often the filter is oriented in a way that makes
*completely* filling the filter impractical. E.g., Subaru's
have the filter located on *top* of the engine with the
opening facing straight *down*.

But, if you slowly, tentatively fill the filter, you will notice
that it will ABSORB a LOT of oil before it even starts to
"pool" in the bottom of the filter. Installing a *dry* filter
means the vehicle has to do all of that work *before* the oil
can make its way through the filter!

engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

It also *seems* to result in less "stuck filters" when it comes
time to removing them!

The downside is you now have oil on your finger and will *tend*
to forget about that... while later screwing the filter onto the
block (leaving a nice film of oil on the outside of the filter
that makes tightening it more frustrating -- as your hand now
wants to slip on the oil film!)

On 8/29/2015 4:49 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I think it's a good idea to get under, and write the
oil change date on the oil filter, permanant marker.
That way you can tell if they did the work, by the
color of the oil and the date on the filter.

One friend of mine in South Carolina had one of those
oil non-changes. He wasn't pleased.

My uncle had a "forgot to tighten the drain plug" experience.
Engine seized up on the way home. He was anything *but*
pleased!

On 8/28/2015 10:25 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/28/2015 03:41 PM, Roy wrote:
I have heard of this rip-off before but they don't allow you
in their shops anymore so we don't know what they do in there.

I know exactly what happens for my oil changes. I pull into the
driveway, put a pan under the engine, and remove the drain plug. While
it's draining, I get out 4 quarts of oil and a filter. When the oil is
drained, I remove the filter, being careful not to drop it into the pan
of old oil. Screw a new filter on, replace the plug, and refill the
engine. Start it up to check for leaks, then turn it off and recheck the
oil level adding a little more if needed. Reset the check engine light,
record the mileage in the maintenance book, and I'm good to go. It takes
almost a half hour if I get distracted.

Oh yeah, and while I'm on the ground removing the plug, I check to make
sure there are no dead skunks caught in the suspension and so forth.

My van has an oil leak, and I'm currently in the process of looking for
an affordable part. The dealership was going to charge $590 for the
parts to fix the oil filter adapter, and about $100 in labor. Right now
I just add more oil to it occasionally.

I've heard that older vehicles are held together by the old oil and if
you change it the motor thinks the world is coming to an end and won't
start any more.

--
Maggie

On 08/28/2015 09:42 PM, Don Y wrote:
If you fill the filter with oil before screwing it on, you won't have to
add,
later. I've found that you can get a *lot* of oil into a DRY filter --
even
if the filter is mounted "opening down" (e.g., like on Subaru's).

I skipped that step in my description, thanks. The Yaris and F150 both
have filters that mount right side up. Then there are innie and outie
filters. I prefer Swix or Napa Gold because when they punch the base
plate and thread it the threads are on the inside of the filter they are
easier to get started. Hard to explain without a picture.

Two of the bikes have the filters mounted sideways. The other bike is
old school and has a replaceable element, not a cartridge.

I add all the other ancillary "checks" at the same time:

I sort of mentally included them in the dead skunk check. After all,
while you're waiting for the oil to drain, you might as well inventory
the engine compartment, make sure nobody stole the alternator, etc.

I've got the feeling 95% of today's drivers have never actually laid
their eyes on the engine of their vehicle. Only factory trained experts
are allowed to pop the hood latch.

On 08/29/2015 09:17 AM, Oren wrote:
Been doing this since I was a teen. Filling the filter gets oil to
the crank bearings much faster. Good idea on older high mileage
engines. Rubbing oil on the filter O-ring also prevents the
possibility of the rubber binding and perhaps not sealing.

And if you follow the tightening instructions, unlike the teenage
Godzilla at QuickyLube, you might even be able to get the damn thing off
without a lot of drama at the next oil chance.