I was almost shocked yesterday when I went to Walmart to buy some of
those new halogen-incandescent light bulbs, to put in my outdoor porch
light fixture. (CFL bulbs dont work outdoors in cold weather).

A pack of halogen incan... bulbs was around $6.
A TWO pack of 60W (equivalant) 8.5W actual, was $4.60.
(Great Value brand)

A year ago, ONE LED bulb cost $15 to $20 or more.....

Needless to say, I bought the LEDs.

Now I can afford to begin replacing all the CFL bulbs in my home with
LED bulbs.

On 8/22/2015 1:20 PM, wrote:
I was almost shocked yesterday when I went to Walmart to buy some of
those new halogen-incandescent light bulbs, to put in my outdoor porch
light fixture. (CFL bulbs dont work outdoors in cold weather).

A pack of halogen incan... bulbs was around $6.
A TWO pack of 60W (equivalant) 8.5W actual, was $4.60.
(Great Value brand)

A year ago, ONE LED bulb cost $15 to $20 or more.....

Needless to say, I bought the LEDs.

Now I can afford to begin replacing all the CFL bulbs in my home with
LED bulbs.

I bought some two-packs of Philips 60W for $4.99 many months back.
But, have only installed them in a few locations (e.g., garage door
opener) as most of the lights, here, are dimmable floods (the
dimmable LED's still aren't quite as nice as the incandescents).

We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)

On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 4:29:44 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 8/22/2015 1:20 PM, wrote:
I was almost shocked yesterday when I went to Walmart to buy some of
those new halogen-incandescent light bulbs, to put in my outdoor porch
light fixture. (CFL bulbs dont work outdoors in cold weather).

A pack of halogen incan... bulbs was around $6.
A TWO pack of 60W (equivalant) 8.5W actual, was $4.60.
(Great Value brand)

A year ago, ONE LED bulb cost $15 to $20 or more.....

Needless to say, I bought the LEDs.

Now I can afford to begin replacing all the CFL bulbs in my home with
LED bulbs.

I bought some two-packs of Philips 60W for $4.99 many months back.
But, have only installed them in a few locations (e.g., garage door
opener) as most of the lights, here, are dimmable floods (the
dimmable LED's still aren't quite as nice as the incandescents).

We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)

At $2 even if it lasts just a couple years, it will have paid for
itself in electricity savings. I had those concerns when they cost
$25, but now, not so much.

On 8/22/2015 4:29 PM, Don Y wrote:



We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)


Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the
two lamps you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they
seem to be very reliable. Affordable now too.

On 8/22/2015 2:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/22/2015 4:29 PM, Don Y wrote:

We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)

Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the two lamps
you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they seem to be very
reliable. Affordable now too.

We don't have any "lamps". Almost all of the lighting, here, is
overhead (floods and spots) -- and on dimmers.

[We have two "lamps" that use the long, slender, "dildo" bulbs]

As I mentioned in my post, I put two in the garage door opener
(because it *doesn't* dim!) leaving just the light fixtures over
the bathroom sinks as the only non-dimming incandescent fixtures
(they'd require "specialty" bulbs... "less affordable")

On 8/22/2015 2:05 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 at 4:29:44 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 8/22/2015 1:20 PM, wrote:

Now I can afford to begin replacing all the CFL bulbs in my home with
LED bulbs.

I bought some two-packs of Philips 60W for $4.99 many months back.
But, have only installed them in a few locations (e.g., garage door
opener) as most of the lights, here, are dimmable floods (the
dimmable LED's still aren't quite as nice as the incandescents).

We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)

At $2 even if it lasts just a couple years, it will have paid for
itself in electricity savings. I had those concerns when they cost
$25, but now, not so much.

A colleague "gifted" us a carton of 100 equivalent watt spots
(the sort with the giant heat sink). They've remained packed
away in the case out in the garage simply because all of our
fixtures are on dimmers.

We've tried a set of four 65 equivalent watt floods in the family
room. They don't dim anywhere near as nicely as the incandescents
(though 1000 times better than the dimmable CFL's!). We'll see
how they hold up. Color temperature is a big issue, here
(think "art")

[With 130V incandescent floods, we can turn the dimmers to their
lowest settings and effectively have "whole house night lights"...
too dim to realize they are *on* -- unless you wake up in the
middle of the night and try to wander around (e.g., house guests)
in which case they are *perfect*]

On 8/22/2015 7:55 PM, Don Y wrote:

We don't have any "lamps". Almost all of the lighting, here, is
overhead (floods and spots) -- and on dimmers.

[We have two "lamps" that use the long, slender, "dildo" bulbs]

As I mentioned in my post, I put two in the garage door opener
(because it *doesn't* dim!) leaving just the light fixtures over
the bathroom sinks as the only non-dimming incandescent fixtures
(they'd require "specialty" bulbs... "less affordable")

We have 10 lamps. Primary lighting in the family room. In a room that
we'd read or watch TV, lamps are the best lighting.

The garage door opener is not on enough to show any real savings.
Specialty bulbs will be harder to replace. I really like the LED
"daylight" bulbs in the bathroom. Each has three 60W equivalent (800
lumen) over the sink plus 2 cfl in the ceiling light/vent. Nice and
bright in the shower.

On 8/22/2015 4:29 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 8/22/2015 1:20 PM, wrote:
I was almost shocked yesterday when I went to Walmart to buy some of
those new halogen-incandescent light bulbs, to put in my outdoor porch
light fixture. (CFL bulbs dont work outdoors in cold weather).

A pack of halogen incan... bulbs was around $6.
A TWO pack of 60W (equivalant) 8.5W actual, was $4.60.
(Great Value brand)

A year ago, ONE LED bulb cost $15 to $20 or more.....

Needless to say, I bought the LEDs.

Now I can afford to begin replacing all the CFL bulbs in my home with
LED bulbs.

I bought some two-packs of Philips 60W for $4.99 many months back.
But, have only installed them in a few locations (e.g., garage door
opener) as most of the lights, here, are dimmable floods (the
dimmable LED's still aren't quite as nice as the incandescents).

We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)


Dimmable LEDs are still in the works for full range effect. Most DIM
LEDs reduce to 10% while a few will reach 5%. They are improving but
just as with everything else, it'll take time.

LED bulbs are reaching the capacity of the higher wattage such as 100+.
The lower wattage LEDs are dropping drastically due to the production of
higher wattage bulbs and higher K values. Those who like the daylight
type bulbs will want the 4000k to 6000k range.

On 08/22/2015 03:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the
two lamps you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they
seem to be very reliable. Affordable now too.

When CFL's started gaining popularity, my electric coop sent everyone a
free box of assorted CFLs. This time around they're only sending 2 free
LEDs and a low flow shower head, so I'll be able to try them.

The only thing I've noticed about CFLs is they are slow to start in the
winter but I've gotten used to turning a light on and having a pause
before there's any light.

"rbowman" wrote in message

stuff snipped

The only thing I've noticed about CFLs is they are slow to start in the
winter but I've gotten used to turning a light on and having a pause
before there's any light.

That's precisely why I've been yanking all the CFL's out and replacing them
with LEDs. You'd be surprised at how quickly you re-adjust to the damn
light coming on to full brightness when you flick the switch.

Almost all of the CFL 23W bulbs I got from HomeDepot (N:vision) take a full
minute to reach max brightness and start out at what I'd called 50% or more
dimmed. Not acceptable if only for safety reasons.

And no more stinking mercury going into the aquifers from CFLs not being
properly recycled. I suspect scientists will see huge mercury spikes in
sediment layers that clearly mark man's flirtation with CFLs. They may only
have trace amounts of Hg in them, but they've made billions of them.

As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill response
(hyperbole alert!).

--
Bobby G.

On 8/22/2015 5:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/22/2015 7:55 PM, Don Y wrote:

We don't have any "lamps". Almost all of the lighting, here, is
overhead (floods and spots) -- and on dimmers.

[We have two "lamps" that use the long, slender, "dildo" bulbs]

As I mentioned in my post, I put two in the garage door opener
(because it *doesn't* dim!) leaving just the light fixtures over
the bathroom sinks as the only non-dimming incandescent fixtures
(they'd require "specialty" bulbs... "less affordable")

We have 10 lamps. Primary lighting in the family room. In a room that we'd
read or watch TV, lamps are the best lighting.

We found table and floor lamps make viewing the TV difficult -- the
"hot spot" of the lamp is at roughly (seated) eye level -- so, you
see it (and yourself!) reflected in the TV screen when seated, viewing.

The (two) floor lamps that we have locate their lamps ("dildo" bulbs)
horizontally at eye level -- but, behind *metal* shades that direct
the light downward. So, into your lap where the book/magazine/newspaper
you are reading is located -- not into the TV screen where it will be
reflected back at you.

We have no table lamps in the living area as tables just clutter
up the floor plan.

The garage door opener is not on enough to show any real savings.

The door opener wasn't chosen as a means of saving money. Rather,
to see how well the lamps fare with short duty cycles (on/off many
times); flashing (as in the case of an "error" indication... door
closed on something unexpected!) as wouldn't be viable with CFL's;
high ambient temperatures (the garage easily gets well above 100F
for a good portion of the year); *and*, to reduce the amount of
current flowing into the bulbs! (incandescent lamps draw a much
greater amount and cause the socket contacts to "burn" over time
due to arching, etc. as well as running hot and melting the
plastic "shades" on the opener)

Specialty bulbs will be harder to replace.

The "bedside lamps" are 3-ways. So, we'd need 3-way bulbs to
take advantage of the low and high brightness capabilities
(or, add a dimmer -- and require a dimmable bulb!).

I really like the LED "daylight" bulbs in the
bathroom. Each has three 60W equivalent (800 lumen) over the sink plus 2 cfl
in the ceiling light/vent. Nice and bright in the shower.

Our current bathroom fixtures use unfrosted globes. Sort of like
the things a movie star has on their makeup mirror? We will have
to replace the fixtures to use something in which non-incandescents
could be "functional" (instead of also having to be "decorative")

On 8/22/2015 8:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2015 03:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the
two lamps you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they
seem to be very reliable. Affordable now too.

When CFL's started gaining popularity, my electric coop sent everyone a free
box of assorted CFLs. This time around they're only sending 2 free LEDs and a
low flow shower head, so I'll be able to try them.

I don't think we were ever *given* any, outright. But, we've been able
to buy them for $0 at local stores (rebates).

The only thing I've noticed about CFLs is they are slow to start in the winter
but I've gotten used to turning a light on and having a pause before there's
any light.

We tend not to have problems with low temperatures... :

But, the CFL's take longer to start as they age. And, they
don't come on at full intensity, initially (as they age).

I've got a carton of LED floodlights (spotlights?) that I'd like
to try installing in the garage (in recessed cans). But, the ceiling is
so high that I think I would have to space them too close together to
get uniform light coverage. Or, replace them with greater output
bulbs (which means the ones I have are useless, in either case!)

The garage lights go on and off a dozen times or more, EVERY day
(in and out of the car -- even if the car never leaves the garage,
access to the freezer out in the garage, access to my files, spare
parts, cables, etc.). So, tubular flourescents (currently in place)
tend to fail quickly. CFL's would suffer from slow starting and
intolerance of the temperature extremes. Incandescents are costly
(energy) to light such a large space *well* (many people seem content
to have dark garages; I want to be able to *work* in mine!).

So, LED seems the logical choice.

On 8/22/2015 6:09 PM, Meanie wrote:

We're waiting to see how *reliable* they'll prove to be. A ~$2 bulb
that doesn't last long is still an expensive bulb! OTOH, the CFL's
were essentially "free" so even poor quality would make them affordable
(if you ignore the impact on the environment)

Dimmable LEDs are still in the works for full range effect. Most DIM LEDs
reduce to 10% while a few will reach 5%. They are improving but just as with
everything else, it'll take time.

They won't achieve the range of brightness that the "commercial" (130V)
incandescents have. If I turn the overhead lights down to minimum, they
are barely lit! A 4W nightlight probably casts more usable light!

[I should measure to see what sort of power they actually draw!]

LED bulbs are reaching the capacity of the higher wattage such as 100+. The
lower wattage LEDs are dropping drastically due to the production of higher
wattage bulbs and higher K values. Those who like the daylight type bulbs will
want the 4000k to 6000k range.

We are sensitive to color temperature as it changes the perceived color
of things. When you're producing artwork, you want to know what color
you've got on the page... not what it *seems* to be ("in this light").

E.g., natural light from north facing windows is prefered.

On 8/23/2015 1:05 AM, Don Y wrote:


We found table and floor lamps make viewing the TV difficult -- the
"hot spot" of the lamp is at roughly (seated) eye level -- so, you
see it (and yourself!) reflected in the TV screen when seated, viewing.

Perhaps with a plasma or /CRT, but with a shaded light I see no
reflection on an LED/LCD screen. It is a large room and a 40w LED it is
good for tv viewing.



Specialty bulbs will be harder to replace.

The "bedside lamps" are 3-ways. So, we'd need 3-way bulbs to
take advantage of the low and high brightness capabilities
(or, add a dimmer -- and require a dimmable bulb!).

/we used to have 3 ways but replaced them. New lamps take two bulbs and
each has a pull chain. One bulb is a 50w equiv, the other a 25w equiv.
Amazingly, we rarely use more than the 25. That is what I have on
now. We have power beds so I'm comfortable with the netbook on my
belly, some blues music on the Fire TV. Buddy Guy, Joe Bonamassa, Son
House. All from Amazon Prime.




Our current bathroom fixtures use unfrosted globes. Sort of like
the things a movie star has on their makeup mirror? We will have
to replace the fixtures to use something in which non-incandescents
could be "functional" (instead of also having to be "decorative")

I've not seen anything like that yet.

On 8/23/2015 1:12 AM, Don Y wrote:

I've got a carton of LED floodlights (spotlights?) that I'd like
to try installing in the garage (in recessed cans). But, the ceiling is
so high that I think I would have to space them too close together to
get uniform light coverage. Or, replace them with greater output
bulbs (which means the ones I have are useless, in either case!)

The garage lights go on and off a dozen times or more, EVERY day
(in and out of the car -- even if the car never leaves the garage,
access to the freezer out in the garage, access to my files, spare
parts, cables, etc.). So, tubular flourescents (currently in place)
tend to fail quickly. CFL's would suffer from slow starting and
intolerance of the temperature extremes. Incandescents are costly
(energy) to light such a large space *well* (many people seem content
to have dark garages; I want to be able to *work* in mine!).

So, LED seems the logical choice.

Are the present lights hard wired or plug into a ceiling mounted
receptacle? If plug in. it would be easy to get the adapters to try a
couple. If they are anything like my outdoor floods you will get plenty
of light from them

On 08/22/2015 10:47 PM, Robert Green wrote:
As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill response

When I was a kid and school desks still had a groove for pencils (to say
nothing of the hole for inkwells) I had a little bottle of mercury
collected from old mercury switches. I'd amuse myself by pouring a
little into the groove and pushing the blobs back and forth. As far as I
can tell the worst effect was the outcome of the 'keeps busy at
worthwhile activities' entry on the report card.

Back in the '70s the company I worked for did contract assembly for
Sylvania, both grow lights and 4' energy saving tubes. The EPA
definitely doesn't need to know how the broken bulbs and non-starters
were handled... Of course, every factory and office in the world was
disposing of all those 40w T12's safely. Then suddenly every CFL became
a lethal device ready to kill your children and pets.

On 08/22/2015 11:12 PM, Don Y wrote:
I don't think we were ever *given* any, outright. But, we've been able
to buy them for $0 at local stores (rebates).

It was a good sized box with a wide assortment sent to every customer
via the USPS. I was already using CFL's so I asked a friend if he could
use some. He could, so I readdressed the box and took it to the post
office to mail it. The woman behind the counter sighed and said "I bet I
can guess what that is."

This time the co-op sent out letters with a return postcard asking if
you wanted the LEDs and there will only be two so the post office won't
get hit with a tsunami of large, very lightweight boxes.

The co-op is a survival from the REA days and does things a little
differently. Like actually giving members a dividend check. It's not a
huge dividend but it's the thought that counts.

On 8/22/2015 11:11 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2015 10:47 PM, Robert Green wrote:
As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill response

When I was a kid and school desks still had a groove for pencils (to say
nothing of the hole for inkwells) I had a little bottle of mercury collected
from old mercury switches. I'd amuse myself by pouring a little into the groove
and pushing the blobs back and forth. As far as I can tell the worst effect was
the outcome of the 'keeps busy at worthwhile activities' entry on the report card.

Sure! And we used to have fluoroscopes in the shoe stores, used DDT
around the house to kill unwanted critters, dump the used oil from our
car engines in the storm sewers, etc.

One of the local universities has periodic auctions of surplus equipment.
Often some good deals to be had.

But, the catch is you have to take what you bought! So, that nice
pallet of computers might have a 5 pound jar of mercury hidden in
a box amongst it all.

Great way to deal with YOUR hazardous waste: make it someone *else's*!
*AND*, make them fight for the right to PAY you for it! :

On 8/22/2015 10:52 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/23/2015 1:12 AM, Don Y wrote:

I've got a carton of LED floodlights (spotlights?) that I'd like
to try installing in the garage (in recessed cans). But, the ceiling is
so high that I think I would have to space them too close together to
get uniform light coverage. Or, replace them with greater output
bulbs (which means the ones I have are useless, in either case!)

The garage lights go on and off a dozen times or more, EVERY day
(in and out of the car -- even if the car never leaves the garage,
access to the freezer out in the garage, access to my files, spare
parts, cables, etc.). So, tubular flourescents (currently in place)
tend to fail quickly. CFL's would suffer from slow starting and
intolerance of the temperature extremes. Incandescents are costly
(energy) to light such a large space *well* (many people seem content
to have dark garages; I want to be able to *work* in mine!).

So, LED seems the logical choice.

Are the present lights hard wired or plug into a ceiling mounted receptacle?
If plug in. it would be easy to get the adapters to try a couple. If they are
anything like my outdoor floods you will get plenty of light from them

I've tried just holding them up near the ceiling to get an idea as to how
much usable light they throw. The beams are too narrow (in cans) and
the floor too far away. I'd have to dot the ceiling with lots of
cans to cover the length and width.

The (current) tubular fluorescents throw light in essentially all
directions. So, more "general" coverage (light reflecting off walls,
ceiling, etc.)

I'd thought of "tubular LED" replacements but that just strikes me as
so much a kludge...

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:02:44 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/22/2015 03:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the
two lamps you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they
seem to be very reliable. Affordable now too.

When CFL's started gaining popularity, my electric coop sent everyone a
free box of assorted CFLs. This time around they're only sending 2 free
LEDs and a low flow shower head, so I'll be able to try them.

Be cafeful to screw the shower head into the shower and not a lamp.
Same with the bulbs. don't screw one into the shower. .

The only thing I've noticed about CFLs is they are slow to start in the

They used to be much slower. The new ones seem pretty fast to me, 5
seconds?

winter but I've gotten used to turning a light on and having a pause
before there's any light.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 00:11:33 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

On 08/22/2015 10:47 PM, Robert Green wrote:
As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill response

When I was a kid and school desks still had a groove for pencils (to say
nothing of the hole for inkwells) I had a little bottle of mercury
collected from old mercury switches. I'd amuse myself by pouring a
little into the groove and pushing the blobs back and forth. As far as I
can tell the worst effect was the outcome of the 'keeps busy at
worthwhile activities' entry on the report card.

That was the short-term outcome. You'd probably speak 7 languages by
now were it not for that.

When I was 6 or 7 my father, a dentist, brought me home a bottle of
mercury, about 3 large thimbles-full. I still have it, 60+ years
later, but I haven't found too many things to do with it. I was going
to use it to refuribish mercury switches for car alarms, but so far,
I've just been transferring good mercury switches from one car to the
next.

I played with some when I was little but don't remember details. But I
now it's the reason I haven't won a Nobel prize.

Back in the '70s the company I worked for did contract assembly for
Sylvania, both grow lights and 4' energy saving tubes. The EPA
definitely doesn't need to know how the broken bulbs and non-starters
were handled... Of course, every factory and office in the world was
disposing of all those 40w T12's safely. Then suddenly every CFL became
a lethal device ready to kill your children and pets.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 22 Aug 2015 23:21:19 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/22/2015 11:11 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2015 10:47 PM, Robert Green wrote:
As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill response

When I was a kid and school desks still had a groove for pencils (to say
nothing of the hole for inkwells) I had a little bottle of mercury collected
from old mercury switches. I'd amuse myself by pouring a little into the groove
and pushing the blobs back and forth. As far as I can tell the worst effect was
the outcome of the 'keeps busy at worthwhile activities' entry on the report card.

Sure! And we used to have fluoroscopes in the shoe stores, used DDT

I can still see my feet glowing. Where there is no nightlight, I take
off my slippers and use my footlights to guide the way.

around the house to kill unwanted critters, dump the used oil from our
car engines in the storm sewers, etc.

The last one is really bad.

One of the local universities has periodic auctions of surplus equipment.
Often some good deals to be had.

But, the catch is you have to take what you bought! So, that nice
pallet of computers might have a 5 pound jar of mercury hidden in
a box amongst it all.

Great way to deal with YOUR hazardous waste: make it someone *else's*!
*AND*, make them fight for the right to PAY you for it! :

LOL. Did you hear that they've solved the traffic problem for New York
City. They made all the streets one-way west. Now it's New Jersey's
problem.

micky wrote:

I played with some when I was little but don't remember details.

My brother had a small glass container with mercury... circa 1962.
I helped him polish silver coins with it. He kept those blue books
with 'slots' for every nickel, dime, quarter minted. It shined the
hell outta those coins too! As far as I recall, that's all we ever
did with it.

On 8/22/2015 11:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2015 03:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the
two lamps you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they
seem to be very reliable. Affordable now too.

When CFL's started gaining popularity, my electric coop sent everyone a
free box of assorted CFLs. This time around they're only sending 2 free
LEDs and a low flow shower head, so I'll be able to try them.

The only thing I've noticed about CFLs is they are slow to start in the
winter but I've gotten used to turning a light on and having a pause
before there's any light.

I've also noticed the CFL come on slowly in winter. One
time I needed light, and it was cold. I had a fluorescent
battery lantern (which did not light) and a LED lantern
which worked fine. So, maybe the LED will provide better
cold weather light.

Hope this guy gets spammed, and leaves us alone:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 8/23/2015 1:05 AM, Don Y wrote:
The (two) floor lamps that we have locate their lamps ("dildo" bulbs)
horizontally at eye level -- but, behind *metal* shades that direct
the light downward. So, into your lap where the book/magazine/newspaper
you are reading is located -- not into the TV screen where it will be
reflected back at you.



The metal shades sounds like a good idea. I made a
shade one time out of heavy aluminum foil.

Hope the spammer gets spammed at his gmail:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 8/23/2015 2:11 AM, rbowman wrote:

Back in the '70s the company I worked for did contract assembly for
Sylvania, both grow lights and 4' energy saving tubes. The EPA
definitely doesn't need to know how the broken bulbs and non-starters
were handled... Of course, every factory and office in the world was
disposing of all those 40w T12's safely. Then suddenly every CFL became
a lethal device ready to kill your children and pets.


One time I dropped a CFL in my parents bathroom,
trying to change the over head light. It broke, of
course. I was going to sweep it up with a dust pan,
Mom got there first with the vacuum cleaner. I
quipped to my Dad that all that air flow over the
mercury bulb, we're all going to die.

Well, about six months later, he died.

Spam the spammer:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 8/23/2015 2:19 AM, rbowman wrote:
The co-op is a survival from the REA days and does things a little
differently. Like actually giving members a dividend check. It's not a
huge dividend but it's the thought that counts.

The thought: We over charged you, here is some of
the excess monies we charged.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: INSTRUCTOR'S SOLUTIONS MANUAL PDF: Linear Algebra Done Right,
2nd Ed by Sheldon Axler
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair


--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 01:46:12 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/23/2015 1:05 AM, Don Y wrote:


We found table and floor lamps make viewing the TV difficult -- the
"hot spot" of the lamp is at roughly (seated) eye level -- so, you
see it (and yourself!) reflected in the TV screen when seated, viewing.

Perhaps with a plasma or /CRT, but with a shaded light I see no
reflection on an LED/LCD screen. It is a large room and a 40w LED it is
good for tv viewing.

Our living room has no ceiling lights - just lamps, and no reflection
problems with out 42 inch Panasonic Plasma.

"Don Y" wrote in message

stuff snipped

I'd thought of "tubular LED" replacements but that just strikes me as
so much a kludge...

But a strip of low wattage LEDs in a "light bar" makes sense because they
can tolerate a few failures before the total light output becomes too dim to
be useable. Mount them in standard packages that can draw power from a
fluorescent ballast . . . Hey, off to the patent office you go!

I have been thinking about replacing the 48" shoplights in the basement. My
wife says they flicker but I do like the nice, even diffuse light they
produce even if it seems I am replacing ballast all the damn time.

--
Bobby G.

"rbowman" wrote in message
...
On 08/22/2015 10:47 PM, Robert Green wrote:
As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill
response

When I was a kid and school desks still had a groove for pencils (to say
nothing of the hole for inkwells) I had a little bottle of mercury
collected from old mercury switches. I'd amuse myself by pouring a
little into the groove and pushing the blobs back and forth. As far as I
can tell the worst effect was the outcome of the 'keeps busy at
worthwhile activities' entry on the report card.

I had a bottle of it - weighed a few pounds. Enough to float small,
improbable objects on it. Good for shining pennies as Lowrider reports,
pushed my finger in it a lot and my kids are perfectly non-existent. (-:

I believe the real issue is that when it's vaporized and inhaled (not sure
if breathing the white phospor dust does it) it's pretty nasty. So never
stand under a CFL that's about to fail with your mouth open.

Back in the '70s the company I worked for did contract assembly for
Sylvania, both grow lights and 4' energy saving tubes. The EPA
definitely doesn't need to know how the broken bulbs and non-starters
were handled...

They know. I read a study about the spread of mercury and they concluded
that it ends up mostly in the very bottoms of waste trucks and in the sumps
of waste transfer stations. Then it gets into the water and works its way
up to the top predator. What I remember most about mercury is Minimata and
those disturbing photographs. I am quite glad that CFL's probably won't be
around much longer because LED bulbs are almost always going to be cheaper
to make - no mazes of twisty glass spiral, all alike. (Remember Adventure?)

Of course, every factory and office in the world was
disposing of all those 40w T12's safely.

No doubt whatsoever. In the trailer for "Black Mass" about Whitey Bolger he
says: "If nobody saw it, it didn't happen." I know in NY and NJ that
principle governs much of the waste industry. Even my dog lives by the same
principle.

Then suddenly every CFL became
a lethal device ready to kill your children and pets.

Well, the press has to whip up a frenzy about everything. It's clearly high
on their list of job priorities.

--
Bobby G.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:02:12 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

So never
stand under a CFL that's about to fail with your mouth open.

I saw a PSA that said just that.

A public service announcement.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:02:12 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

What I remember most about mercury is Minimata and
those disturbing photographs.

What's that.

In "Robert Green" writes:

But a strip of low wattage LEDs in a "light bar" makes sense because they
can tolerate a few failures before the total light output becomes too dim to
be useable. Mount them in standard packages that can draw power from a
fluorescent ballast . . . Hey, off to the patent office you go!

There are actually direct drop-in LED tubes that can replace
fluorescent lamps without rewiring. Of course I first found
out about them when the CPSC announced a recall of them..

Yes, they still work through the ballast. And yes, I get
very painful headaches in visualizing how this works.

More common is a two or four fott LED tube which fits
in the fluorescent fixture, BUT where it's hooked up
directly to the 120V (in US) AC line. In other words,
you disconnect the ballast and run the utility wires
directly to the lamp holder clips at each end.

Roughly twice as efficient as the fluorescent system
(i.e. half the wattage for the same light) AND they
work fine in the cold.

NOTE: this is actually a great format for LEDs. The Big Problem
with getting a decent amount of light from them is heat buildup.
Even though they're much more efficient than incandescent,
they still produce heat... so anything above the equivalent
of a 40 watt incendescen - 8 or so watt LED, requires
heat fins and venting and painful annoyances.

If instead of using the incandescent lamp form factor
you (the manufacturer...) goes for two foot tubes, the
heat is disspiated over a much larger area, so you can
pump in more watts and get more light.

I have been thinking about replacing the 48" shoplights in the basement. My
wife says they flicker but I do like the nice, even diffuse light they
produce even if it seems I am replacing ballast all the damn time.

The LED quivlant of a twin-40 sells for 30 or so dollars.
Well worth it.



--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On 2015-08-23, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:02:12 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

What I remember most about mercury is Minimata and
those disturbing photographs.

What's that.

A search which couldn't have taken more than 5 seconds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

nb

On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 1:10:38 AM UTC-5, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2015 10:47 PM, Robert Green wrote:
As an additional bonus, a broken LED doesn't warrant a hazmat spill response

When I was a kid and school desks still had a groove for pencils (to say
nothing of the hole for inkwells) I had a little bottle of mercury
collected from old mercury switches. I'd amuse myself by pouring a
little into the groove and pushing the blobs back and forth. As far as I
can tell the worst effect was the outcome of the 'keeps busy at
worthwhile activities' entry on the report card.

Back in the '70s the company I worked for did contract assembly for
Sylvania, both grow lights and 4' energy saving tubes. The EPA
definitely doesn't need to know how the broken bulbs and non-starters
were handled... Of course, every factory and office in the world was
disposing of all those 40w T12's safely. Then suddenly every CFL became
a lethal device ready to kill your children and pets.

Did your old school desks have cast iron frames and decades old initials carved into the wood? It wasn't that too many years ago that I saw building maintenance and light bulb changing companies fill dumpsters with old F40CW tubes usually smashing them in the process. The older florescent tubes contained a lot more mercury than any CFL, even the newer reduced mercury tubes had more. Allah help anyone who drops and breaks a CFL in a school. The school would probably be shut down, evacuated and a dozen guys in moon suits would have to bring in tons of ridiculously expensive specialized equipment to cleanup the broken CFL. Of course you can't forget the medical teams brought in to check out everyone who was in or around the school during the toxic material release. I wonder how many grief councilors would be called in to see to the mental well being of the traumatized children? o_O

[8~{} Uncle CFL Monster

On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 7:21:11 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 8/22/2015 11:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2015 03:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Don't wait until the sun burns out to try them Get two to put in the
two lamps you use the most and make your own decision. So far, they
seem to be very reliable. Affordable now too.

When CFL's started gaining popularity, my electric coop sent everyone a
free box of assorted CFLs. This time around they're only sending 2 free
LEDs and a low flow shower head, so I'll be able to try them.

The only thing I've noticed about CFLs is they are slow to start in the
winter but I've gotten used to turning a light on and having a pause
before there's any light.

I've also noticed the CFL come on slowly in winter. One
time I needed light, and it was cold. I had a fluorescent
battery lantern (which did not light) and a LED lantern
which worked fine. So, maybe the LED will provide better
cold weather light.



Hybrid halogen CFL lamps have been around for a while and come on instantly. They are what I'd put outdoors or in a walk in cooler. ^_^

http://tinyurl.com/qe2dhw9

[8~{} Uncle Hybrid Monster

On Sunday, August 23, 2015 at 9:30:24 AM UTC-5, danny burstein wrote:
In "Robert Green" writes:

But a strip of low wattage LEDs in a "light bar" makes sense because they
can tolerate a few failures before the total light output becomes too dim to
be useable. Mount them in standard packages that can draw power from a
fluorescent ballast . . . Hey, off to the patent office you go!

There are actually direct drop-in LED tubes that can replace
fluorescent lamps without rewiring. Of course I first found
out about them when the CPSC announced a recall of them..

Yes, they still work through the ballast. And yes, I get
very painful headaches in visualizing how this works.

More common is a two or four fott LED tube which fits
in the fluorescent fixture, BUT where it's hooked up
directly to the 120V (in US) AC line. In other words,
you disconnect the ballast and run the utility wires
directly to the lamp holder clips at each end.

Roughly twice as efficient as the fluorescent system
(i.e. half the wattage for the same light) AND they
work fine in the cold.

NOTE: this is actually a great format for LEDs. The Big Problem
with getting a decent amount of light from them is heat buildup.
Even though they're much more efficient than incandescent,
they still produce heat... so anything above the equivalent
of a 40 watt incendescen - 8 or so watt LED, requires
heat fins and venting and painful annoyances.

If instead of using the incandescent lamp form factor
you (the manufacturer...) goes for two foot tubes, the
heat is disspiated over a much larger area, so you can
pump in more watts and get more light.

I have been thinking about replacing the 48" shoplights in the basement. My
wife says they flicker but I do like the nice, even diffuse light they
produce even if it seems I am replacing ballast all the damn time.

The LED quivlant of a twin-40 sells for 30 or so dollars.
Well worth it.

--


5 years ago, I met a fellow who had quite a business replacing the F40CW lamps with LED lamps in parking decks and other commercial locations. This was before the LED tubes were widely available so the guy had them custom made for him. I think he got them out of North Carolina's version of Silicon Valley. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle LED Monster

Regular bulbs are no longer maid, blubber lips.

On 8/22/2015 10:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/23/2015 1:05 AM, Don Y wrote:

We found table and floor lamps make viewing the TV difficult -- the
"hot spot" of the lamp is at roughly (seated) eye level -- so, you
see it (and yourself!) reflected in the TV screen when seated, viewing.

Perhaps with a plasma or /CRT, but with a shaded light I see no reflection on
an LED/LCD screen. It is a large room and a 40w LED it is good for tv viewing.

What color is your shade? We see lights reflected in any glass surface
(TV, all the artwork hanging in the room, etc.). I'm looking up at the
painting hanging above and to the right of my monitor and can see into
the adjoining room *behind* me.

When we watch TV, we dim the overhead lamps down like a theater
(not "black" but, rather, dim enough that you can still see
what's in front of you as you walk around the room, talk to
others present, etc.

Specialty bulbs will be harder to replace.

The "bedside lamps" are 3-ways. So, we'd need 3-way bulbs to
take advantage of the low and high brightness capabilities
(or, add a dimmer -- and require a dimmable bulb!).

/we used to have 3 ways but replaced them. New lamps take two bulbs and each
has a pull chain. One bulb is a 50w equiv, the other a 25w equiv. Amazingly,
we rarely use more than the 25. That is what I have on now. We have power
beds so I'm comfortable with the netbook on my belly, some blues music on the
Fire TV. Buddy Guy, Joe Bonamassa, Son House. All from Amazon Prime.

Single bulb fixtures, here (with the exception of the bathrooms;
but those are single *switch* fixtures, regardless). The office has
a couple of up-lights with CFL floods (because I spend the most time
in that room).

I was sick for a while a couple years back. I ran a CAT5 cable
into the bed and used a tablet PC for the duration (I have a couple
of wireless access points but rarely use wireless, prefering the
reliability of the wired connection, instead)

Our current bathroom fixtures use unfrosted globes. Sort of like
the things a movie star has on their makeup mirror? We will have
to replace the fixtures to use something in which non-incandescents
could be "functional" (instead of also having to be "decorative")

I've not seen anything like that yet.

Even if the same shape becomes available, the appeal of the fixture
lies in having the internal structures of the bulbs visible -- frosted
lamps would look tacky.

On 8/23/2015 6:49 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"Don Y" wrote in message

stuff snipped

I'd thought of "tubular LED" replacements but that just strikes me as
so much a kludge...

But a strip of low wattage LEDs in a "light bar" makes sense because they
can tolerate a few failures before the total light output becomes too dim to
be useable. Mount them in standard packages that can draw power from a
fluorescent ballast . . . Hey, off to the patent office you go!

These are already available -- the economical version requires rewiring
the fixture to remove the ballast.

But, LED's are directional devices. The fluorescent tubes are inherently
omnidirectional -- counting on any reflector to direct the light (as well
as start the bulb)

I have been thinking about replacing the 48" shoplights in the basement. My
wife says they flicker but I do like the nice, even diffuse light they
produce even if it seems I am replacing ballast all the damn time.

In our case, the bulbs fail quickly. They just aren't intended to
be cycled on and off as often as these. Turn them on for an hour
at a time and they'll last much longer than turning them on for
15 seconds 10 times in that hour! :

I prefer bringing light directly to my "task" area. E.g., inspection lamps
right *at* my work area instead of overhead lights that try to cover
it all.