On 9/6/2014 6:15 PM, Oren wrote:


Dry Ice in a cooler will save the day. Storage at the neighbor's
house, in a freezer, is another option, for a few days. BTDT

Dry Ice will keep the freezer contents frozen in a good cooler. BTDT.

I ship seafood using dry ice. Wrapped in newspaper.


The hard part can be finding dry ice. Closest to me is an ABCO welding
supply house. About a buck pound.

On 9/6/2014 7:14 PM, Todd wrote:

I have ice in the fridg, so it is down to 50F. The Freezer
is a 60F. Now we wait.


Wow, that must save a lot of energy if you get ice at 60 degrees. Mine
has to go lower tan that.

On 09/06/2014 08:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/6/2014 7:14 PM, Todd wrote:

I have ice in the fridg, so it is down to 50F. The Freezer
is a 60F. Now we wait.


Wow, that must save a lot of energy if you get ice at 60 degrees. Mine has to go lower tan that.


Maybe raise the pressure inside the fridge to 100 kbar?

On 9/6/14, 7:27 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/6/2014 7:17 PM, J Burns wrote:
If it looked like thermostat trouble (as the repairman guessed), I'd
look for the possibility that some obstruction was subjecting it to too
much freezer air. If that didn't pan out, and it were possible to lean
a water bag against the thermostat area, a bag of lukewarm water might
be used to trick the thermostat and save the food until it could be
fixed.

I take it back...

The situation is rapidly emerging. I suspect
Todd will be back in a few minutes. He'll
tell us that he prayed over his refrigerator,
and sprinkled with holy water and salad
oil. He knocked the refrigerator back into
the stadium seat, and declared it healed.

Praise be to Whirlpool!

In the past, I downloaded the service data sheet for my refrigerator.
It includes the approximate wattage at a certain ambient temperature,
with the thermostat at midpoint, in the last third of the cycle.

I paid under $20 for a watt meter than plugs into a wall outlet. I've
seen what the refrigerator uses, but I'm going to write down wattages at
specific room temperatures.

That way, I can plug in the watt meter to see if the high-side lines are
dissipating heat normally. If the compressor was cutting off because of
dusty lines, I'll bet the wattage would be very high.

On 09/06/2014 08:58 PM, J Burns wrote:

I paid under $20 for a watt meter than plugs into a wall outlet.

Make and model?

On 09/06/2014 12:43 PM, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Help!

refrigerator freezer:
Whirlpool GR2SHKXKQ
21.6 cu ft
Purchased ~ 12/2010

Stinker won't cool below 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Both
sections.

It started out stinking like a burnt tire. Then frost all
over the freezer items.

So I replaced the 4387244 Condenser Fan Motor, which indeed
was leaking oil and not spinning too freely.

Now I have lots of air going in the bottom front left
(my left, its right) and going out the bottom front
right.

The wind coming out the fan in the freezer section
is not all that cold.

The thing runs for a while and stops. Then cycles
again after a bit. If it is off and I kill power at
the breaker, it will start again.

I need my freeze back before I loose big dollars
in food. And the local repairmen take forever to get
here. Plus, most of them suck at it. The one guy
that is magic at this stuff is so far away, it is
hard to get him to come out (I insist on paying travel,
but he is swamped.)

-T

Hi All,

I am back from fishing. Caught three 4" fishletts.
The most beautifully adorned rainbows I have seen in years.

To reprise:

Symptom: insufficient or no cooling.

Tests so far:

0) my wife informed me we purchased the unit in late
November 2001

1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:
no symptom change

2) all fans are operating normally

3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front
left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.
No symptom change.

4) whipped the back off again:

A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out
the three pins:
bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms
bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms
upper to lower right: ~9 ohms

B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed
from the relay: ~115 VAC

5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that
goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded
like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".
She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.

6) Listened to about two hours of videos on troubleshooting
relays and condensers. Got to listen to the sounds that
Stormin' asked me about on You Tube.

A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave
your hand on it for a few minutes.)

B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.
No clunk. Absolutely nothing.

7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging
are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.


Game plan submitted for you guys approval.

1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back
from the parts store).

2) if that does not help, call a repairman.


Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have
to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part. Go
figure.

If the repairman I call doesn't have a condenser and/or that
weenie tube to the side, I will just have to go get them
myself.

Thank you all for the help.
-T

Just turn off the fridge,leave it open for a few hours, then turn it back on. If it runs continuously, gets cold like it should, then it could be the defrost. If it continues to just run for 30 min, doesn't get cold, then it's not a defrost problem.

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 4:13:02 AM UTC-4, Todd wrote:
Hi All,



I am back from fishing. Caught three 4" fishletts.

The most beautifully adorned rainbows I have seen in years.



To reprise:



Symptom: insufficient or no cooling.



Tests so far:



0) my wife informed me we purchased the unit in late

November 2001



So it's a lot older than previously reported. At that age, it's a lot
more likely to not be worth fixing.





1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:

no symptom change


That still troubles me. AFAIK, that type of fan doesn't have oil to
leak. There is a tiny amount in the lubricated for life bearings, but
to have enough that it leaks out, doesn't sound right. And
if the fan was still working, blowing a reasonable amount of air
that wasn't real hot, I would not have replaced it, until I found out
what's really wrong. IF the compressor won't start, the fan is irrelevant.






2) all fans are operating normally



3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front

left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.

No symptom change.



4) whipped the back off again:



A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out

the three pins:

bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms

bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms

upper to lower right: ~9 ohms



B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed

from the relay: ~115 VAC



5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that

goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded

like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".

She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.



6) Listened to about two hours of videos on troubleshooting

relays and condensers. Got to listen to the sounds that

Stormin' asked me about on You Tube.



A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave

your hand on it for a few minutes.)



B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.

No clunk. Absolutely nothing.


That's different too. From the previous description it sounded like
it was running for 30 mins at a time. If the compressor gets warm, but
isn't running, could it be a start capacitor? They are very quiet these
days, but I think when you have your head right next to it you should
hear something when it's running. Also, any evidence that the condenser
gets cold at all? Evaporator gets warm at all?







7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging

are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.





Game plan submitted for you guys approval.



1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back

from the parts store).



I wouldn't just swap parts without some basis to think it was the
problem.



2) if that does not help, call a repairman.


At that age, depending on other factors, I'd put just junking it
on the list too.







Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have

to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part. Go

figure.



If the repairman I call doesn't have a condenser and/or that

weenie tube to the side, I will just have to go get them

myself.



If it gets to that level of repair, I'd junk it for sure. It's
a basic fridge. What would a new one cost? Another
possibility, sometimes folks are selling floor models, used ones,
etc on Ebay or CL at prices where it doesn't make sense to throw money
into fixing it. I got a floor model at BestBuy for $1400 that regularly
goes for $2800.

On 9/7/2014 4:13 AM, Todd wrote:

Hi All,

To reprise:

Symptom: insufficient or no cooling.

Tests so far:

0) my wife informed me we purchased the unit in late
November 2001

1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:
no symptom change

2) all fans are operating normally

3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front
left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.
No symptom change.

4) whipped the back off again:

A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out
the three pins:
bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms
bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms
upper to lower right: ~9 ohms

B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed
from the relay: ~115 VAC

5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that
goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded
like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".
She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.

6) Listened to about two hours of videos on troubleshooting
relays and condensers. Got to listen to the sounds that
Stormin' asked me about on You Tube.

A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave
your hand on it for a few minutes.)

B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.
No clunk. Absolutely nothing.

7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging
are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.


Game plan submitted for you guys approval.

1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back
from the parts store).

2) if that does not help, call a repairman.


Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have
to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part. Go
figure.

If the repairman I call doesn't have a condenser and/or that
weenie tube to the side, I will just have to go get them
myself.

Thank you all for the help.
-T

I'd go with a replacement relay on the compressor.
I've had good results with a Supco universal hard
start.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPCO-RCO410...em4adbba 74b3

Most of the time, this bring a compressor back to life.
You want the one that says 1/4 to 1/3 HP.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/7/2014 7:16 AM, trader_4 wrote:
November 2001



So it's a lot older than previously reported. At that age, it's a lot
more likely to not be worth fixing.

CY: Who can tell? Might need a simple part.




1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:

no symptom change


That still troubles me. AFAIK, that type of fan doesn't have oil to
leak. There is a tiny amount in the lubricated for life bearings, but
to have enough that it leaks out, doesn't sound right. And
if the fan was still working, blowing a reasonable amount of air
that wasn't real hot, I would not have replaced it, until I found out
what's really wrong. IF the compressor won't start, the fan is irrelevant.

CY: Two fans in the fridge. Neither should have any
signifigant bit of oil. They both use bronze bearings.

3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front
left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.

No symptom change.

CY:Very often, dust will cause a no cooling problem.

A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out
the three pins:
CY: Condenser is a set of tubes and fins. Compressor has wires and can
be checked for ohms.

bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms

bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms

upper to lower right: ~9 ohms
CY: That's about right.


B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed

from the relay: ~115 VAC
CY:Which is good.


5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that
goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded
like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".
She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.

CY: No sound at all suggests either bad compressor, or bad relay.

A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave
your hand on it for a few minutes.)
B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.
No clunk. Absolutely nothing.


That's different too. From the previous description it sounded like
it was running for 30 mins at a time. If the compressor gets warm, but
isn't running, could it be a start capacitor? They are very quiet these
days, but I think when you have your head right next to it you should
hear something when it's running. Also, any evidence that the condenser
gets cold at all? Evaporator gets warm at all?

CY: Hot compressor but not running sounds a lot like
bad start relay. BTW, condenser should never get cold,
as it's the part that gets hot to release heat. Evap
should never get warm, as it's the part that gets cold
to absorb heat.

7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging
are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.
CY: Might not be needed.


Game plan submitted for you guys approval.
1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back
from the parts store).
CY: From what you write, this is probably the
part you need.


I wouldn't just swap parts without some basis to think it was the
problem.
CY: He just wrote a list of symptoms and tests
which all point to bad start relay. I'd call
that basis.

2) if that does not help, call a repairman.


At that age, depending on other factors, I'd put just junking it
on the list too.
CY: I suspect the replacement relay or a Supco
will do the job. If it does not, then the compressor
is bad. But I don't suspect that at the moment.

Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have
to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part. Go
figure.



If the repairman I call doesn't have a condenser and/or that
weenie tube to the side, I will just have to go get them
myself.

CY: You have near to zero chance to buy a condenser
for this refrigerator. And if you did, it would be too
expensive to install. Same with the capillary tube.



If it gets to that level of repair, I'd junk it for sure. It's
a basic fridge. What would a new one cost? Another
possibility, sometimes folks are selling floor models, used ones,
etc on Ebay or CL at prices where it doesn't make sense to throw money
into fixing it. I got a floor model at BestBuy for $1400 that regularly
goes for $2800.


CY: Please let us know how the job goes.

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:42:22 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/7/2014 7:16 AM, trader_4 wrote:

November 2001







So it's a lot older than previously reported. At that age, it's a lot

more likely to not be worth fixing.



CY: Who can tell? Might need a simple part.


I guess the repairman for a fee can give a qualified opinion as
to the extent of the problems. But even he can't tell you what
happens a couple more years from now, after you sink hundreds
into an old fridge. All I'm saying is that with a 13 year
old basic fridge when it stops cooling like this, the probability that
replacing it is going to be the best solution is a lot higher than if
it's just 4 years old.













1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:



no symptom change





That still troubles me. AFAIK, that type of fan doesn't have oil to

leak. There is a tiny amount in the lubricated for life bearings, but

to have enough that it leaks out, doesn't sound right. And

if the fan was still working, blowing a reasonable amount of air

that wasn't real hot, I would not have replaced it, until I found out

what's really wrong. IF the compressor won't start, the fan is irrelevant.



CY: Two fans in the fridge. Neither should have any

signifigant bit of oil. They both use bronze bearings.



3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front

left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.



No symptom change.



CY:Very often, dust will cause a no cooling problem.



A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out

the three pins:

CY: Condenser is a set of tubes and fins. Compressor has wires and can

be checked for ohms.



Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Relay in the condenser?




bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms



bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms



upper to lower right: ~9 ohms

CY: That's about right.





B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed



from the relay: ~115 VAC

CY:Which is good.





5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that

goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded

like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".

She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.



CY: No sound at all suggests either bad compressor, or bad relay.



A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave

your hand on it for a few minutes.)

B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.

No clunk. Absolutely nothing.





That's different too. From the previous description it sounded like

it was running for 30 mins at a time. If the compressor gets warm, but

isn't running, could it be a start capacitor? They are very quiet these

days, but I think when you have your head right next to it you should

hear something when it's running. Also, any evidence that the condenser

gets cold at all? Evaporator gets warm at all?



CY: Hot compressor but not running sounds a lot like

bad start relay. BTW, condenser should never get cold,

as it's the part that gets hot to release heat. Evap

should never get warm, as it's the part that gets cold

to absorb heat.


My bad, I mixed them up, but you get the obvious point, which is
to see if the compressor is running at all.





7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging

are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.

CY: Might not be needed.





Game plan submitted for you guys approval.

1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back

from the parts store).

CY: From what you write, this is probably the

part you need.





I wouldn't just swap parts without some basis to think it was the

problem.

CY: He just wrote a list of symptoms and tests

which all point to bad start relay. I'd call

that basis.



It's not even clear to me what he measured as the description isn't
clear. But if he wants to go buy more parts, he can certainly do so.





2) if that does not help, call a repairman.





At that age, depending on other factors, I'd put just junking it

on the list too.

CY: I suspect the replacement relay or a Supco

will do the job. If it does not, then the compressor

is bad. But I don't suspect that at the moment.



What's a supco?

On 9/7/2014 8:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:


I guess the repairman for a fee can give a qualified opinion as
to the extent of the problems. But even he can't tell you what
happens a couple more years from now, after you sink hundreds
into an old fridge. All I'm saying is that with a 13 year
old basic fridge when it stops cooling like this, the probability that
replacing it is going to be the best solution is a lot higher than if
it's just 4 years old.



Crap shoot at best. It will cost $80 to $120 to walk through the door
to tell you that you have to spend yet another $100 or more or that it
is junk. At 13 years, unless it is a premium unit, I'd go for new.

Few months back I paid $80 to have a repair man tell me it would cost
$400 to fix the washing machine. Wasted money at that point because it
was not worth fixing.

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:33:52 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/7/2014 4:13 AM, Todd wrote:



Hi All,



To reprise:



Symptom: insufficient or no cooling.



Tests so far:



0) my wife informed me we purchased the unit in late

November 2001



1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:

no symptom change



2) all fans are operating normally



3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front

left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.

No symptom change.



4) whipped the back off again:



A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out

the three pins:

bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms

bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms

upper to lower right: ~9 ohms



B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed

from the relay: ~115 VAC



5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that

goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded

like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".

She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.



6) Listened to about two hours of videos on troubleshooting

relays and condensers. Got to listen to the sounds that

Stormin' asked me about on You Tube.



A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave

your hand on it for a few minutes.)



B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.

No clunk. Absolutely nothing.



7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging

are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.





Game plan submitted for you guys approval.



1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back

from the parts store).



2) if that does not help, call a repairman.





Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have

to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part. Go

figure.



If the repairman I call doesn't have a condenser and/or that

weenie tube to the side, I will just have to go get them

myself.



Thank you all for the help.

-T



I'd go with a replacement relay on the compressor.

I've had good results with a Supco universal hard

start.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPCO-RCO410...em4adbba 74b3



Most of the time, this bring a compressor back to life.

You want the one that says 1/4 to 1/3 HP.




Spending another $13 into a DIY attempt may be a good idea.
But before I did that, I think he should go back and reinvestigate
where that oil was that he says came from the small condensor fan motor.
We agree that small motors like that don't have oil in them, so where
did it come from? I'm wondering if it actually came from a hole in
refrigerant system and it's leaking compressor oil. If so, it's game
over.

On 9/7/14, 3:50 AM, Todd wrote:
On 09/06/2014 08:58 PM, J Burns wrote:

I paid under $20 for a watt meter than plugs into a wall outlet.

Make and model?

Kill A Watt P3. I'd read about it when I saw it on sale at newegg. I
haven't regretted it.

Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the
average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.

It shows me vampire loads; some gear is a lot more efficient than other
gear. For charging a car battery, I find it a better monitor than the
charger's ammeter.

On 9/7/14, 10:31 AM, J Burns wrote:

Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the
average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.

Oops... It shows time and kilowatt hours! I was out sick the day my
class studied English!

On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 01:13:02 -0700, Todd wrote:

Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have
to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part.

Comparison shop. For your model:

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/search.aspx?model=gr2shkxkq

On Sat, 06 Sep 2014 20:06:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/6/2014 6:15 PM, Oren wrote:


Dry Ice in a cooler will save the day. Storage at the neighbor's
house, in a freezer, is another option, for a few days. BTDT

Dry Ice will keep the freezer contents frozen in a good cooler. BTDT.

I ship seafood using dry ice. Wrapped in newspaper.


The hard part can be finding dry ice. Closest to me is an ABCO welding
supply house. About a buck pound.

A buck a pound is cheaper than the cost of a fridge full of food,
these days

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 10:31 AM, J Burns wrote:



Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the

average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.



Oops... It shows time and kilowatt hours! I was out sick the day my

class studied English!

I have a Kill a Watt too and also highly recommend it. It's great for
monitoring any plug in loads where you want to find out how much power
they actually use over a period of time. From the menu you can put in
your cost of power and it will then tell you how much a day, week, month,
etc it costs to run.

On 9/7/14, 4:13 AM, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

I am back from fishing. Caught three 4" fishletts.
The most beautifully adorned rainbows I have seen in years.

To reprise:

Symptom: insufficient or no cooling.

Tests so far:

0) my wife informed me we purchased the unit in late
November 2001

1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:
no symptom change

2) all fans are operating normally

3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front
left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.
No symptom change.

4) whipped the back off again:

A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out
the three pins:
bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms
bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms
upper to lower right: ~9 ohms

I was looking to see if it might be your condenser... that is, the start
capacitor for the motor. A lot of refrigerators don't have start
capacitors, which would rule that out!

I found this:
http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYcmprtest.htm

Common sense, but I was too dumb to see it! If you've got 10 ohms and 9
ohms, the third reading should be 19 ohms. I believe you have a short
in the motor. That would account for the stink episode.

On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 09:05:35 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/7/2014 8:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:


I guess the repairman for a fee can give a qualified opinion as
to the extent of the problems. But even he can't tell you what
happens a couple more years from now, after you sink hundreds
into an old fridge. All I'm saying is that with a 13 year
old basic fridge when it stops cooling like this, the probability that
replacing it is going to be the best solution is a lot higher than if
it's just 4 years old.



Crap shoot at best. It will cost $80 to $120 to walk through the door
to tell you that you have to spend yet another $100 or more or that it
is junk. At 13 years, unless it is a premium unit, I'd go for new.

Few months back I paid $80 to have a repair man tell me it would cost
$400 to fix the washing machine. Wasted money at that point because it
was not worth fixing.

The prior owner left an upright Frigidare freezer when we bought this
house. 1999 Model. Ran fine, then one day I smelled what I thought was
burning rubber and plastic inside the garage one morning. I could
here a "sizzling" sound thought to be electrical in nature.

For $52.00 at a local parts shop, I replaced the starter and run
capacitor. The thing is still running today. Worth my entire cost
of $52.00 (15 years)

On Sat, 06 Sep 2014 16:14:52 -0700, Todd wrote:

On 09/06/2014 01:47 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 06 Sep 2014 13:17:33 -0700, Todd wrote:

On 09/06/2014 01:04 PM, Oren wrote:
I was in the hospital

Everything okay now?

I'll know more on Tuesday. It's a long, long story


I was going to ask you if you needed a prayer. But then I decided
you didn't get a vote, so you got one anyway

Thanks Todd.

On 9/7/14, 10:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 7, 2014 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 10:31 AM, J Burns wrote:



Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the

average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.



Oops... It shows time and kilowatt hours! I was out sick the day my

class studied English!

I have a Kill a Watt too and also highly recommend it. It's great for
monitoring any plug in loads where you want to find out how much power
they actually use over a period of time. From the menu you can put in
your cost of power and it will then tell you how much a day, week, month,
etc it costs to run.

I just discovered that P3 includes more than one model. I got the
cheapest, the 4400. No menu. Buttons for volts, amps, volt-amps,
watts, Hz, Pf, kwh, and hours.

Amazon has 159 results for "kill a watt."

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 10:57:09 AM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 4:13 AM, Todd wrote:

Hi All,



I am back from fishing. Caught three 4" fishletts.

The most beautifully adorned rainbows I have seen in years.



To reprise:



Symptom: insufficient or no cooling.



Tests so far:



0) my wife informed me we purchased the unit in late

November 2001



1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:

no symptom change



2) all fans are operating normally



3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front

left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.

No symptom change.



4) whipped the back off again:



A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out

the three pins:

bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms

bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms

upper to lower right: ~9 ohms



I was looking to see if it might be your condenser... that is, the start

capacitor for the motor. A lot of refrigerators don't have start

capacitors, which would rule that out!



I found this:

http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYcmprtest.htm



Common sense, but I was too dumb to see it! If you've got 10 ohms and 9

ohms, the third reading should be 19 ohms. I believe you have a short

in the motor. That would account for the stink episode.

That procedure makes sense and if he's really measuring at the compressor,
then I agree with your conclusion based on the procedure. But IDK what
he was measuring because he said he removed the relay from the "condenser"
then measured 3 pins. It's not clear what the pins were. I guess by
condenser he means the start cap, but not a good choice of words when the
fridge has an AC condenser.

Regarding the smell, if something burned, it would have to be something
besides the compressor motor, because that is sealed with no way for the
smell to escape. And it should have protection so that even with a bad
compressor, external parts shouldn't burn, but also could be more than
one thing is kaput.

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 11:14:32 AM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 10:53 AM, trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 10:36:12 AM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:

On 9/7/14, 10:31 AM, J Burns wrote:







Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the



average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.







Oops... It shows time and kilowatt hours! I was out sick the day my



class studied English!



I have a Kill a Watt too and also highly recommend it. It's great for

monitoring any plug in loads where you want to find out how much power

they actually use over a period of time. From the menu you can put in

your cost of power and it will then tell you how much a day, week, month,

etc it costs to run.



I just discovered that P3 includes more than one model. I got the

cheapest, the 4400. No menu. Buttons for volts, amps, volt-amps,

watts, Hz, Pf, kwh, and hours.



Amazon has 159 results for "kill a watt."

I think you're right, 4400 model doesn't have the ability to enter cost
of electricity and have it display cost per month, etc. But my choice
of the term "menu" was misleading too. My unit looks very similar
to yours. There isn't a
menu really, you just use the buttons to cycle through the list of choices
and in one place you can enter the cost per kwh.

On 9/7/14, 11:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Regarding the smell, if something burned, it would have to be something
besides the compressor motor, because that is sealed with no way for the
smell to escape. And it should have protection so that even with a bad
compressor, external parts shouldn't burn, but also could be more than
one thing is kaput.

From this thread, I understand that the oil on the fan must have come
from the compressor. It must not be sealed.

How about this? The system develops a leak down low, where pressure
from the refrigerant forces oil out. Maybe the rotor locks from lack of
oil, or maybe the rotor will still turn but a winding burns because
there isn't enough oil to dissipate heat. The stink exits through the
leak. I don't know what goes on inside a refrigerator compressor, but I
can imagine!

On Sunday, September 7, 2014 12:11:33 PM UTC-4, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 11:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Regarding the smell, if something burned, it would have to be something

besides the compressor motor, because that is sealed with no way for the

smell to escape. And it should have protection so that even with a bad

compressor, external parts shouldn't burn, but also could be more than

one thing is kaput.



From this thread, I understand that the oil on the fan must have come

from the compressor. It must not be sealed.



How about this? The system develops a leak down low, where pressure

from the refrigerant forces oil out. Maybe the rotor locks from lack of

oil, or maybe the rotor will still turn but a winding burns because

there isn't enough oil to dissipate heat. The stink exits through the

leak. I don't know what goes on inside a refrigerator compressor, but I

can imagine!

One immediate question that maybe someone here knows the answer to or
that could be answered via a wiring diagram is if there is a low pressure
cut-off switch on the compressor? If there is, then if it's leaked that
bad, then the compressor should not be receiving power, but it obviously
is. But IDK if these small compressors have that.

For me the oil and the smell are key and if anything more with regard
to tracking them back can be done, I think it could resolve it.
Your scenario would account for both. Or are the start caps filled with oil?

On 9/7/2014 8:06 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:42:22 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/7/2014 7:16 AM, trader_4 wrote:

November 2001







So it's a lot older than previously reported. At that age, it's a lot

more likely to not be worth fixing.



CY: Who can tell? Might need a simple part.


I guess the repairman for a fee can give a qualified opinion as
to the extent of the problems. But even he can't tell you what
happens a couple more years from now, after you sink hundreds
into an old fridge. All I'm saying is that with a 13 year
old basic fridge when it stops cooling like this, the probability that
replacing it is going to be the best solution is a lot higher than if
it's just 4 years old.













1) found the Condense Fan motor leaking oil and replaced it:



no symptom change





That still troubles me. AFAIK, that type of fan doesn't have oil to

leak. There is a tiny amount in the lubricated for life bearings, but

to have enough that it leaks out, doesn't sound right. And

if the fan was still working, blowing a reasonable amount of air

that wasn't real hot, I would not have replaced it, until I found out

what's really wrong. IF the compressor won't start, the fan is irrelevant.



CY: Two fans in the fridge. Neither should have any

signifigant bit of oil. They both use bronze bearings.



3) cleaned out the dust from the coils under the bottom front

left (my left) and any I missed from the back. Went fishing.



No symptom change.



CY:Very often, dust will cause a no cooling problem.



A) removed the relay from the condenser. Ohm'ed out

the three pins:

CY: Condenser is a set of tubes and fins. Compressor has wires and can

be checked for ohms.



Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Relay in the condenser?




bottom to bottom: ~14 ohms



bottom left to upper: ~10 ohms



upper to lower right: ~9 ohms

CY: That's about right.





B) measured the voltage on the connector that I removed



from the relay: ~115 VAC

CY:Which is good.





5) while fishing, I asked my wife, who has every sound that

goes "bump in the night" cataloged, what the compressor sounded

like when it fired up: "A snap, followed by a motor whoosh".

She also said she hasn't heard it for the last few days.



CY: No sound at all suggests either bad compressor, or bad relay.



A) the compressor is hot to the touch. (You can leave

your hand on it for a few minutes.)

B) there is no sound coming from it whatsoever. No rattle.

No clunk. Absolutely nothing.





That's different too. From the previous description it sounded like

it was running for 30 mins at a time. If the compressor gets warm, but

isn't running, could it be a start capacitor? They are very quiet these

days, but I think when you have your head right next to it you should

hear something when it's running. Also, any evidence that the condenser

gets cold at all? Evaporator gets warm at all?



CY: Hot compressor but not running sounds a lot like

bad start relay. BTW, condenser should never get cold,

as it's the part that gets hot to release heat. Evap

should never get warm, as it's the part that gets cold

to absorb heat.


My bad, I mixed them up, but you get the obvious point, which is
to see if the compressor is running at all.





7) figured out that the welding, cleaning out of tubes, and recharging

are over my head when it comes to changing a compressor.

CY: Might not be needed.





Game plan submitted for you guys approval.

1) change the relay (get some dry ice on the way back

from the parts store).

CY: From what you write, this is probably the

part you need.





I wouldn't just swap parts without some basis to think it was the

problem.

CY: He just wrote a list of symptoms and tests

which all point to bad start relay. I'd call

that basis.



It's not even clear to me what he measured as the description isn't
clear. But if he wants to go buy more parts, he can certainly do so.





2) if that does not help, call a repairman.





At that age, depending on other factors, I'd put just junking it

on the list too.

CY: I suspect the replacement relay or a Supco

will do the job. If it does not, then the compressor

is bad. But I don't suspect that at the moment.



What's a supco?


You sent 273 lines of usenet with three word question?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 17:02:03 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

What's a supco?


You sent 273 lines of usenet with three word question?

Answer his question! What he asked.

On 9/7/2014 1:33 PM, trader_4 wrote:

One immediate question that maybe someone here knows the answer to or
that could be answered via a wiring diagram is if there is a low pressure
cut-off switch on the compressor? If there is, then if it's leaked that
bad, then the compressor should not be receiving power, but it obviously
is. But IDK if these small compressors have that.


I've never seen a low cut out on a refrigerator.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 09/07/2014 07:31 AM, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 3:50 AM, Todd wrote:
On 09/06/2014 08:58 PM, J Burns wrote:

I paid under $20 for a watt meter than plugs into a wall outlet.

Make and model?

Kill A Watt P3. I'd read about it when I saw it on sale at newegg. I
haven't regretted it.

Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the
average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.

It shows me vampire loads; some gear is a lot more efficient than other
gear. For charging a car battery, I find it a better monitor than the
charger's ammeter.

Thank you!

On 09/07/2014 07:31 AM, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 3:50 AM, Todd wrote:
On 09/06/2014 08:58 PM, J Burns wrote:

I paid under $20 for a watt meter than plugs into a wall outlet.

Make and model?

Kill A Watt P3. I'd read about it when I saw it on sale at newegg. I
haven't regretted it.

Besides watts, it keeps track of time and hours; so I can see the
average wattage of a refrigerator, and what it will use in a month.

It shows me vampire loads; some gear is a lot more efficient than other
gear. For charging a car battery, I find it a better monitor than the
charger's ammeter.

Thank you!

On 09/07/2014 07:19 AM, trader_4 wrote:
But before I did that, I think he should go back and reinvestigate
where that oil was that he says came from the small condensor fan motor.
We agree that small motors like that don't have oil in them, so where
did it come from?

Hi Trader_4,

Bronze bearings like that are porous and soaked in machine oil
like a sponge. When the friction of the rotating shaft
heats up the bearing, the oil expands out of the bearing on
to the shaft. It is called a "self lubricating bearing".
So yes, there is oil in them. I personally prefer double
ball bearing fans.

And, both the repairman I like and the part house I
got the replacement told me that burning tire stink and
oil on the case of the fan are the first symptoms of a
failing fan.

When sleeve bearing fans use up all the oil where the
shaft rotates, the heat generated causes the oil on
the outside of the bearing to sweat all over the place.
And it stinks like hell too.

This is the fan:
http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDeta...r/4387244/2056

By the way, there is about five times the air flow with
the new motor.

-T

On 09/07/2014 07:50 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 07 Sep 2014 01:13:02 -0700, Todd wrote:

Just an aside. No one around here carries parts. I have
to drive to Reno to their supplier if I want a part.

Comparison shop. For your model:

http://www.appliancepartspros.com/search.aspx?model=gr2shkxkq

Add to that
http://www.repairclinic.com
and
Amazon.com

But, when you need it that day, you have to hoof it
up to Reno and spend out the nose.

On 09/07/2014 09:11 AM, J Burns wrote:
On 9/7/14, 11:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Regarding the smell, if something burned, it would have to be something
besides the compressor motor, because that is sealed with no way for the
smell to escape. And it should have protection so that even with a bad
compressor, external parts shouldn't burn, but also could be more than
one thing is kaput.

From this thread, I understand that the oil on the fan must have come
from the compressor. It must not be sealed.

How about this? The system develops a leak down low, where pressure
from the refrigerant forces oil out. Maybe the rotor locks from lack of
oil, or maybe the rotor will still turn but a winding burns because
there isn't enough oil to dissipate heat. The stink exits through the
leak. I don't know what goes on inside a refrigerator compressor, but I
can imagine!

The oil came out of the fan, not the compressor.

On 09/07/2014 08:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
But IDK what
he was measuring because he said he removed the relay from the "condenser"
then measured 3 pins. It's not clear what the pins were.

The three electrical pins that the relay attaches to

On 09/07/2014 07:57 AM, J Burns wrote:
I was looking to see if it might be your condenser... that is, the start
capacitor for the motor. A lot of refrigerators don't have start
capacitors, which would rule that out!

I found this:
http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYcmprtest.htm

Common sense, but I was too dumb to see it! If you've got 10 ohms and 9
ohms, the third reading should be 19 ohms. I believe you have a short
in the motor. That would account for the stink episode.

Great link. My batteries are on the fritz on my meter.
Shorting the pins together gives me 5 ohms. So, I am
thinking my meter wasn't entirely accurate.

On 09/07/2014 05:32 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/07/2014 07:57 AM, J Burns wrote:
I was looking to see if it might be your condenser... that is, the start
capacitor for the motor. A lot of refrigerators don't have start
capacitors, which would rule that out!

I found this:
http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYcmprtest.htm

Common sense, but I was too dumb to see it! If you've got 10 ohms and 9
ohms, the third reading should be 19 ohms. I believe you have a short
in the motor. That would account for the stink episode.

Great link. My batteries are on the fritz on my meter.
Shorting the pins together gives me 5 ohms. So, I am
thinking my meter wasn't entirely accurate.

I keep seeing blow ups of the relay:

http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYcmprtest.htm
http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDeta...201769/1195944

Where is looks like it comes in several pieces. On
mine, where the pieces look to snap together, they
are melted together. Not sure it that is on purpose
or not.


This link gives a great representation of what is
going on in the relay:

http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/D...ortestcord.htm

On 9/7/2014 8:28 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/07/2014 08:22 AM, trader_4 wrote:
But IDK what
he was measuring because he said he removed the relay from the
"condenser"
then measured 3 pins. It's not clear what the pins were.

The three electrical pins that the relay attaches to


Attach to compressor.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/7/14, 8:32 PM, Todd wrote:
On 09/07/2014 07:57 AM, J Burns wrote:
I was looking to see if it might be your condenser... that is, the start
capacitor for the motor. A lot of refrigerators don't have start
capacitors, which would rule that out!

I found this:
http://www.davesrepair.com/DIYhelp/DIYcmprtest.htm

Common sense, but I was too dumb to see it! If you've got 10 ohms and 9
ohms, the third reading should be 19 ohms. I believe you have a short
in the motor. That would account for the stink episode.

Great link. My batteries are on the fritz on my meter.
Shorting the pins together gives me 5 ohms. So, I am
thinking my meter wasn't entirely accurate.

Sometimes I use contact cleaner and move plugs in jacks to get a meter
to read 0 ohms.

If it's adding a consistent 5 ohms, that would mean 4+5=9, as expected
of good windings.

Did you check output from the relay, disconnected from the motor? If I
hooked up the meter and plugged the refrigerator in (or switched a
breaker on), I'd look for 120 from run to common and a momentary 120
from start to common. A new relay might fix it!

But I've been wrong before...

Todd wrote:
Hi All,

Help!

refrigerator freezer:
Whirlpool GR2SHKXKQ
21.6 cu ft
Purchased ~ 12/2010

Stinker won't cool below 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Both
sections.

see my earlier post : )