I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

Thanks for any/ all advise -dave

On 5/24/2014 6:28 PM, Dave C wrote:
I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

Thanks for any/ all advise -dave


I had a transfer box installed by an electrician but if you are good at
it you could do it yourself. Circuits to my well and oil furnace are
220 v and don't have plugs. I had my freezers, refrigerator, well and
furnace and on some of their circuits a few lights, TV and computer put
on the transfer box.

On 5/24/2014 6:28 PM, Dave C wrote:
I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

Thanks for any/ all advise -dave


Transfer switch is the ideal setup. You either need some knowledge of
working in the main panel, or you need an electrician. Not sure of the
cost, but it is over $500 installed.

If you are going to use cords to the refrigerator, freezer, whatever, be
sure they are heavy enough for the load at a distance. I'd set up my oil
burner with a plug too.

Dave C posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

Thanks for any/ all advise -dave

Do your research and read the NUMEROUS post postings on this subject.

--
Tekkie

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:18:33 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/24/2014 6:28 PM, Dave C wrote:

I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power

interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.

Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !



I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.

Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct

extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30

amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)



I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or

similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is

the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.



Thanks for any/ all advise -dave





Transfer switch is the ideal setup. You either need some knowledge of

working in the main panel, or you need an electrician. Not sure of the

cost, but it is over $500 installed.



If you are going to use cords to the refrigerator, freezer, whatever, be

sure they are heavy enough for the load at a distance. I'd set up my oil

burner with a plug too.


If you have a modern panel, that has slots available, no need for a separate
transfer switch and all the cost. Many panels have lockout slide kits available
from the manufacturer, which would be my first choice.
Or you can get one of these:

http://www.interlockkit.com/

A lockout together with a breaker, and an inlet and you're good to go.
You can either put the inlet near the panel or outside. Total cost
of the parts ~$200.

Setting up the oil burner on a cord/plug has been discussed many
times. It's a violation of NEC, although apparently some AHJ's allow
it.

Per Dave C:

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

Being too cheap to buy a transfer switch, I did the
multiple-extension-cord thing through maybe a half-dozen outages.

I finally wimped and got a "Smart" transfer switch from APC and now I
can't figure out how I put up with the extension-cords-at
night-in-freezing-rain approach.

With 6,500 watts, you probably don't need a "Smart" switch - but I've
got a dinky little 2KW gennie and the smart switch makes life a lot
easier: it senses which circuit wants how much when some circuit wants
more than the gennie can supply, it takes selected circuits offline for
a few minutes until the problem circuit's load drops back.

Smart or dumb... I'd call a transfer switch extremely worthwhile. OTOH,
maybe it's like a bicycle or kayak paddle: you buy junk, use it for
awhile, then when you buy quality you appreciate it soooooo much
more.... So maybe a few outages with extension cords would be a good
thing -)

Our house seems to cruise on 800-1,200 watts depending on how hard the
furnace blower is working, but every so often we want to run a micro
wave (1,200 watts by itself) or, heaven forbid, a toaster...

The attraction of a small generator is gas. Last outage was about five
days and we got trough it with stored gas while the neighbor was driving
long distances to feed his Home Depot monster.

If you have natural gas service, I would recommend adapting the
generator to use nat gas. It's not a one-way thing: you can run it
either-or.... but with nat gas there's no gasoline storage/procurement
issues. Ditto propane from the storage angle. We have nat gas, but
I'm thinking it will cost an arm and a leg to run it out to the garden
shed where the gennie lives. Still, I'm thinking seriously about
getting a propane adapter just for the peace of mind fuel-storage-wise.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per (PeteCresswell):
Ditto propane from the storage angle.

Oh yeah... and propane doubles as cooking fuel. Dunno how much an
electric stove or electric oven pulls, but if you have those and/or an
electric hot water heater I'd start testing/figuring.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...how-much-power
might be a starter.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 5/24/2014 5:28 PM, Dave C wrote:
I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

I have a similar setup that I installed myself. My only regret is that
I didn't talk to somebody who had one/installed one YEARS ago. I'm a
very handy guy with electrical, home repair, remodeling but I just
figured "it had to be too difficult (especially based upon the location
of my 200amp panel in a finished wall.

Well, I did speak with somebody who installed one and immediately bought
a Pro Tran by Reliance, manual transfer panel.

Piece of cake. The only difficult task I had was running the 10ga
feeder from the external power plug (which connects to the backup
generator in its own enclosure about 20' from the house.

Once you have the generator feed line run to the transfer panel, all you
do is figure out which circuits you want to power when the grid fails you.

Then you 1) remove the hot wire feeding that circuit from your circuit
breaker, connect it with a wire nut to a numbered wire feeding into your
service panel from the transfer switch, 2) connect the matching numbered
wire of that pair to the existing circuit breaker, 3) connect the common
to the common buss. That circuit is done.

My transfer switch has 6 120v breakers and 2 240v breakers.

Repeat as necessary.

When power fails, connect the umbilical cord from the generator to the
plug on the outside of the house, fire up the generator and go inside
and activate the circuits one by one and you're in business until the
power company decides to repair the problem.

The transfer switches are BREAK before MAKE so that you will never be
able to backfeed your generator power back into the grid. We have one
centrally located circuit (for some wall outlets) that are NOT supplied
power through the transfer switch. We leave a light or radio plugged in
and turned on to let us know when the power comes back on and we can
shut down the generator.

Still a bit hesitant after speaking with the guy who convinced me to go
ahead... I shot an email to customer service at Reliance on a Saturday
morning and received a detailed answer to my question that same day.
Great service for a Saturday.

Imagine my shock when a company VP (family owned company in the
Milwaukee area) called me by phone first thing Monday morning to make
sure that my question had been answered and asking if I needed anything
further.

Bottom line: If you can get the standby power feed to the vicinity of
your circuit breaker panel AND are handy enough to swap out a dead
circuit breaker, you can install your own panel.

Check Reliance and some of the others. Pretty sure there are videos
that will walk you through it as well.

I installed a 6 circuit transfer switch. If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely install a generator interlock kit.

Why? My 6 circuit transfer switch only powers select circuits (fridge, 2 circuits for the well pump, kitchen lights, living room lights, furnace). Want to go into the basement or upstairs bathroom or garage for a sec? Sorry, no lights because they're not on the 6 circuits.

With a gen interlock kit, use whatever you want as long as you don't overload the gen. The only plus to my current situation: I keep the bedroom light on during an outage so that when power returns, I'll wake up and switch back to utility power (and no, I never sleep with the gen on).

Theodore

On Sat, 24 May 2014 18:28:25 -0400, Dave C wrote:

I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

Thanks for any/ all advise -dave
The bigger question is how you intend, over the relatively long
term, to fuel the beast.

I'm converting mine to tri-fuel, with natural gas the preferred fuel
for longer term blackouts.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/24/2014 6:28 PM, Dave C wrote:
I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that
is the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

Thanks for any/ all advise -dave


Transfer switch is the ideal setup. You either need some knowledge of
working in the main panel, or you need an electrician. Not sure of
the cost, but it is over $500 installed.

If you are going to use cords to the refrigerator, freezer, whatever,
be sure they are heavy enough for the load at a distance. I'd set up
my oil burner with a plug too.

My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it up and
plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the panel . The
shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed the main panel . I cut
the feed from the meter - and when the power comes back on , the LED readout
on the meter comes on to tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When
I finish moving electric service to the new main panel in the house there
will be a transfer lockout so I can't energize both at once .

--
Snag

On Sat, 24 May 2014 19:35:50 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/24/2014 5:28 PM, Dave C wrote:
I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

I have a similar setup that I installed myself. My only regret is that
I didn't talk to somebody who had one/installed one YEARS ago. I'm a
very handy guy with electrical, home repair, remodeling but I just
figured "it had to be too difficult (especially based upon the location
of my 200amp panel in a finished wall.

Well, I did speak with somebody who installed one and immediately bought
a Pro Tran by Reliance, manual transfer panel.

Piece of cake. The only difficult task I had was running the 10ga
feeder from the external power plug (which connects to the backup
generator in its own enclosure about 20' from the house.

Once you have the generator feed line run to the transfer panel, all you
do is figure out which circuits you want to power when the grid fails you.

Then you 1) remove the hot wire feeding that circuit from your circuit
breaker, connect it with a wire nut to a numbered wire feeding into your
service panel from the transfer switch, 2) connect the matching numbered
wire of that pair to the existing circuit breaker, 3) connect the common
to the common buss. That circuit is done.

My transfer switch has 6 120v breakers and 2 240v breakers.

Repeat as necessary.

When power fails, connect the umbilical cord from the generator to the
plug on the outside of the house, fire up the generator and go inside
and activate the circuits one by one and you're in business until the
power company decides to repair the problem.

The transfer switches are BREAK before MAKE so that you will never be
able to backfeed your generator power back into the grid. We have one
centrally located circuit (for some wall outlets) that are NOT supplied
power through the transfer switch. We leave a light or radio plugged in
and turned on to let us know when the power comes back on and we can
shut down the generator.

Still a bit hesitant after speaking with the guy who convinced me to go
ahead... I shot an email to customer service at Reliance on a Saturday
morning and received a detailed answer to my question that same day.
Great service for a Saturday.

Imagine my shock when a company VP (family owned company in the
Milwaukee area) called me by phone first thing Monday morning to make
sure that my question had been answered and asking if I needed anything
further.

Bottom line: If you can get the standby power feed to the vicinity of
your circuit breaker panel AND are handy enough to swap out a dead
circuit breaker, you can install your own panel.

Check Reliance and some of the others. Pretty sure there are videos
that will walk you through it as well.



Depending on your panel, there is a much simpler solution, called an
"interlock" You add a backfeed breaker to the panel with a linkage
that prevents both the main and generator breaker from being closed at
the same time. You install the Generator breaker to reflect the
maximum capability of the generator. Advantage is you don'r have to
guess what circuits you MAY want to energize ahead of time. You can
still dissable certain circuits you do not want to be able to draw
from the generator. Connect the generator by hard-wire connection or
gen-cord exterior plug, same as with a transfer switch.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per (PeteCresswell):
Ditto propane from the storage angle.

Oh yeah... and propane doubles as cooking fuel. Dunno how much an
electric stove or electric oven pulls, but if you have those and/or an
electric hot water heater I'd start testing/figuring.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...how-much-power
might be a starter.

If/when the power goes out the first breaker to turn off will be the
electricwater heater . Much as I hate the tiny shower in the camper annex
we still cook and sleep there it does have a gas/or electric water heater
..
--
Snag

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:36:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I installed a 6 circuit transfer switch. If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely install a generator interlock kit.



Why? My 6 circuit transfer switch only powers select circuits (fridge, 2 circuits for the well pump, kitchen lights, living room lights, furnace). Want to go into the basement or upstairs bathroom or garage for a sec? Sorry, no lights because they're not on the 6 circuits.



With a gen interlock kit, use whatever you want as long as you don't overload the gen. The only plus to my current situation: I keep the bedroom light on during an outage so that when power returns, I'll wake up and switch back to utility power (and no, I never sleep with the gen on).



Theodore

Ahhh, another who has seen the light! No installing anothe panel, moving circuits to it, then still being limited to only being able to power
those circuits with the generator. With the above approach, you can
choose what you can choose anything in the house you want to power.
You can actually just power almost all circuits and leave them on,
eg the lights, escpecially if you have CFL/LED and then just selectively
manage and power the large loads, as needed.

On 5/24/2014 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 19:35:50 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:


[snip]


Check Reliance and some of the others. Pretty sure there are videos
that will walk you through it as well.



Depending on your panel, there is a much simpler solution, called an
"interlock" You add a backfeed breaker to the panel with a linkage
that prevents both the main and generator breaker from being closed at
the same time. You install the Generator breaker to reflect the
maximum capability of the generator. Advantage is you don'r have to
guess what circuits you MAY want to energize ahead of time. You can
still dissable certain circuits you do not want to be able to draw
from the generator. Connect the generator by hard-wire connection or
gen-cord exterior plug, same as with a transfer switch.


Point taken. In fact, I looked at that system but rejected it because I
did not have room on my 200amp panel to spare for the transfer circuit
breakers required.

IIRC, those lockouts were pretty expensive for what they were. By the
time you buy them and the related breakers, you're north of $125.

Still, it would be nice to have EVERY 120v circuit available.g

Stripped bare to the basics, either the manual transfer switch or the
interlock can work quite well for the OP and that was my point. I'm
still kicking myself for the 30+ years I've lived her without a backup
generator to supply the house simply because I "assumed" it would be too
much to install the transfer switch.


BTW, I also run an umbilical to the detached garage and shop because of
the spare refrigerator and freezer out there. Had room on that 100amp
panel to do the interlock but found a used transfer switch (another
Reliance) locally on Craigslist for $50 which made it a no brainer.

trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:36:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I installed a 6 circuit transfer switch. If I had to do it all over
again, I would definitely install a generator interlock kit.



Why? My 6 circuit transfer switch only powers select circuits
(fridge, 2 circuits for the well pump, kitchen lights, living room
lights, furnace). Want to go into the basement or upstairs bathroom
or garage for a sec? Sorry, no lights because they're not on the 6
circuits.



With a gen interlock kit, use whatever you want as long as you don't
overload the gen. The only plus to my current situation: I keep the
bedroom light on during an outage so that when power returns, I'll
wake up and switch back to utility power (and no, I never sleep with
the gen on).



Theodore

Ahhh, another who has seen the light! No installing anothe panel,
moving circuits to it, then still being limited to only being able to
power
those circuits with the generator. With the above approach, you can
choose what you can choose anything in the house you want to power.
You can actually just power almost all circuits and leave them on,
eg the lights, escpecially if you have CFL/LED and then just
selectively
manage and power the large loads, as needed.

My generator is big enough to power everytrhing I have here except the
water heater , including AC units . Those probably won't be turned on though
, I can adfford to be hot more than I can afford the fuel bill for runnin'
them .

--
Snag

On 5/24/2014 8:11 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
The attraction of a small generator is gas. Last outage was about five
days and we got trough it with stored gas while the neighbor was driving
long distances to feed his Home Depot monster.

If you have natural gas service, I would recommend adapting the
generator to use nat gas. It's not a one-way thing: you can run it
either-or.... but with nat gas there's no gasoline storage/procurement
issues. Ditto propane from the storage angle. We have nat gas, but
I'm thinking it will cost an arm and a leg to run it out to the garden
shed where the gennie lives. Still, I'm thinking seriously about
getting a propane adapter just for the peace of mind fuel-storage-wise.


First, a 6500 is probably noisy. I'd want to plan
so as to run it for an hour after dinner to rewarm
the house, and help keep the refigerator cold. One
power cut near me, a guy on the next street over
ran his generator all day and night, and that got
irritating to the rest of us. Under full load, that
machine can use a gallon an hour of fuel, so that's
another reason to run it for an hour after dinner.

So far, I agree with the others advice. Transfer switch
is good, smaller quieter generator is good. And less
gasoline. Natural gas conversion is excellent idea.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it up and
plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the panel . The
shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed the main panel . I cut
the feed from the meter - and when the power comes back on , the LED readout
on the meter comes on to tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When
I finish moving electric service to the new main panel in the house there
will be a transfer lockout so I can't energize both at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes. Right!

devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it up
and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the
panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed the
main panel . I cut the feed from the meter - and when the power
comes back on , the LED readout on the meter comes on to tell me
that I can go back to "shore power" . When I finish moving electric
service to the new main panel in the house there will be a transfer
lockout so I can't energize both at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes. Right!

**** off and die .
--
Snag

On 05/25/2014 10:25 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it up
and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the
panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed the
main panel . I cut the feed from the meter - and when the power
comes back on , the LED readout on the meter comes on to tell me
that I can go back to "shore power" . When I finish moving electric
service to the new main panel in the house there will be a transfer
lockout so I can't energize both at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes. Right!

**** off and die .


Maybe you could tell that to the judge when you are facing negligent homicide charges?

Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 10:25 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it
up and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the
panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed
the main panel . I cut the feed from the meter - and when the
power comes back on , the LED readout on the meter comes on to
tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When I finish moving
electric service to the new main panel in the house there will be
a transfer lockout so I can't energize both at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes. Right!

**** off and die .


Maybe you could tell that to the judge when you are facing negligent
homicide charges?

Ya know what ? Some people are so stupid and clueless that they may
inadvertently energize a circuit and hurt or kill a lineman . I am fully
aware of the dangers . I am also fully aware of my capabilities . Yours I'm
not so sure about .
You can **** off and die too .
--
Snag

"devnull" wrote in message
...
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it up and
plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the panel . The
shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed the main panel . I
cut
the feed from the meter - and when the power comes back on , the LED
readout
on the meter comes on to tell me that I can go back to "shore power" .
When
I finish moving electric service to the new main panel in the house
there
will be a transfer lockout so I can't energize both at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes. Right!
--


Which word or words did you not understand?

The
shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed the main panel . I
cut
the feed from the meter -

On Sat, 24 May 2014 19:35:50 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/24/2014 5:28 PM, Dave C wrote:
I live in an area (New England) where we have had extended AC power
interuptions. I just bought a back up, Generac 6500 watt generator.
Now awaiting the next hurricane, with a bit less trepidation !

I would appreciate any advice on how best to use the generator.
Obviously I could use the 4 generator AC plugs, providing a direct
extension cord feed to my key appliances. (The unit came with a 30
amp/ 4 plug "extension" cord.)

I have no idea how difficult it is to install a transfer switch (or
similar option). There i could energize specific circuits. If that is
the recommended option, any suggestions as to the install process.

I have a similar setup that I installed myself. My only regret is that
I didn't talk to somebody who had one/installed one YEARS ago. I'm a
very handy guy with electrical, home repair, remodeling but I just
figured "it had to be too difficult (especially based upon the location
of my 200amp panel in a finished wall.

Well, I did speak with somebody who installed one and immediately bought
a Pro Tran by Reliance, manual transfer panel.

Piece of cake. The only difficult task I had was running the 10ga
feeder from the external power plug (which connects to the backup
generator in its own enclosure about 20' from the house.

Once you have the generator feed line run to the transfer panel, all you
do is figure out which circuits you want to power when the grid fails you.

Then you 1) remove the hot wire feeding that circuit from your circuit
breaker, connect it with a wire nut to a numbered wire feeding into your
service panel from the transfer switch, 2) connect the matching numbered
wire of that pair to the existing circuit breaker, 3) connect the common
to the common buss. That circuit is done.

My transfer switch has 6 120v breakers and 2 240v breakers.

Repeat as necessary.

When power fails, connect the umbilical cord from the generator to the
plug on the outside of the house, fire up the generator and go inside
and activate the circuits one by one and you're in business until the
power company decides to repair the problem.

The transfer switches are BREAK before MAKE so that you will never be
able to backfeed your generator power back into the grid. We have one
centrally located circuit (for some wall outlets) that are NOT supplied
power through the transfer switch. We leave a light or radio plugged in
and turned on to let us know when the power comes back on and we can
shut down the generator.

Still a bit hesitant after speaking with the guy who convinced me to go
ahead... I shot an email to customer service at Reliance on a Saturday
morning and received a detailed answer to my question that same day.
Great service for a Saturday.

Imagine my shock when a company VP (family owned company in the
Milwaukee area) called me by phone first thing Monday morning to make
sure that my question had been answered and asking if I needed anything
further.

Bottom line: If you can get the standby power feed to the vicinity of
your circuit breaker panel AND are handy enough to swap out a dead
circuit breaker, you can install your own panel.

Check Reliance and some of the others. Pretty sure there are videos
that will walk you through it as well.



You SO closely desribed my situation. I routinely fix/ install most
everything in my house, and for a few neighbors.

Actually I am a degreed electrical engineer, albeit my microwave field
is far afield from 60 Hz. I was previously hesitant to personally
install the xfer switch. I will take your suggestion, and all whom
replied to my inquiry.

Thanks to all, most informative responses - REALY appreciated -dave

On Sat, 24 May 2014 21:58:26 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per (PeteCresswell):
Ditto propane from the storage angle.

Oh yeah... and propane doubles as cooking fuel. Dunno how much an
electric stove or electric oven pulls, but if you have those and/or an
electric hot water heater I'd start testing/figuring.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/gene...how-much-power
might be a starter.

If/when the power goes out the first breaker to turn off will be the
electricwater heater . Much as I hate the tiny shower in the camper annex
we still cook and sleep there it does have a gas/or electric water heater
.

We are fortunate to have a Gas water heater/ stove and oven. In the
past, have "tapped" into a generous neighbor's feed, whom has had a
generator for years.

With hurricanes Irene and Sandy (actually both were tropical storm
while over CT) we were without power for 8 days. I wanted some back
up, and Home Depot had a good deal on the Generac.

Now I am, ala these posts, figuing out how to best configure the unit.

On 05/25/2014 01:10 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 10:25 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it
up and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into the
panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do backfeed
the main panel . I cut the feed from the meter - and when the
power comes back on , the LED readout on the meter comes on to
tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When I finish moving
electric service to the new main panel in the house there will be
a transfer lockout so I can't energize both at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes. Right!

**** off and die .


Maybe you could tell that to the judge when you are facing negligent
homicide charges?

Ya know what ? Some people are so stupid and clueless that they may
inadvertently energize a circuit and hurt or kill a lineman . I am fully
aware of the dangers . I am also fully aware of my capabilities . Yours I'm
not so sure about .
You can **** off and die too .


When the plaintiff's attorney gets done with you, you'll be walkin' and drippin' like a newlywed bride for the rest of your life.

Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 01:10 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 10:25 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it
up and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into
the panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do
backfeed the main panel . I cut the feed from the meter - and
when the power comes back on , the LED readout on the meter
comes on to tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When I
finish moving electric service to the new main panel in the
house there will be a transfer lockout so I can't energize both
at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes.
Right!

**** off and die .


Maybe you could tell that to the judge when you are facing negligent
homicide charges?

Ya know what ? Some people are so stupid and clueless that they may
inadvertently energize a circuit and hurt or kill a lineman . I am
fully aware of the dangers . I am also fully aware of my
capabilities . Yours I'm not so sure about .
You can **** off and die too .


When the plaintiff's attorney gets done with you, you'll be walkin'
and drippin' like a newlywed bride for the rest of your life.

There will be no plaintiff . Fortunately , I'm not as stupid as you are .
Have you ever noticed those who criticize the loudest are the same ones who
consistently **** up ? So when will the payments to the plaintiff in your
case be finished ?

--
Snag

On 05/25/2014 04:41 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 01:10 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 10:25 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire it
up and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting into
the panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and do
backfeed the main panel . I cut the feed from the meter - and
when the power comes back on , the LED readout on the meter
comes on to tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When I
finish moving electric service to the new main panel in the
house there will be a transfer lockout so I can't energize both
at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an interlock.

I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make mistakes.
Right!

**** off and die .


Maybe you could tell that to the judge when you are facing negligent
homicide charges?

Ya know what ? Some people are so stupid and clueless that they may
inadvertently energize a circuit and hurt or kill a lineman . I am
fully aware of the dangers . I am also fully aware of my
capabilities . Yours I'm not so sure about .
You can **** off and die too .


When the plaintiff's attorney gets done with you, you'll be walkin'
and drippin' like a newlywed bride for the rest of your life.

There will be no plaintiff . Fortunately , I'm not as stupid as you are .

FWIW, I'm smart enough to have a listed interlock (Siemens) on my panel.

Have you ever noticed those who criticize the loudest are the same ones who
consistently **** up ?

No, but I've noticed that people who claim they never make mistakes are the ones who actually do.

So when will the payments to the plaintiff in your
case be finished ?


Interlocks save lives and prevent lawsuits. Get it?

Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 04:41 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 01:10 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
Jab Yarbrough wrote:
On 05/25/2014 10:25 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
devnull wrote:
On 05/24/2014 10:38 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My genset is out in my shop . When the power goes out , I fire
it up and plug the breaker that I have hooked up and waiting
into the panel . The shop is on a sub panel , and I can and
do backfeed the main panel . I cut the feed from the meter -
and when the power comes back on , the LED readout on the meter
comes on to tell me that I can go back to "shore power" . When
I finish moving electric service to the new main panel in the
house there will be a transfer lockout so I can't energize both
at once .

Only a ****ing idiot would back feed a panel without an
interlock. I know, you're so ****ing smart that you never make
mistakes.
Right!

**** off and die .


Maybe you could tell that to the judge when you are facing
negligent homicide charges?

Ya know what ? Some people are so stupid and clueless that they may
inadvertently energize a circuit and hurt or kill a lineman . I am
fully aware of the dangers . I am also fully aware of my
capabilities . Yours I'm not so sure about .
You can **** off and die too .


When the plaintiff's attorney gets done with you, you'll be walkin'
and drippin' like a newlywed bride for the rest of your life.

There will be no plaintiff . Fortunately , I'm not as stupid as you
are .

FWIW, I'm smart enough to have a listed interlock (Siemens) on my
panel.
Have you ever noticed those who criticize the loudest are the same
ones who consistently **** up ?

No, but I've noticed that people who claim they never make mistakes
are the ones who actually do.
So when will the payments to the plaintiff in your
case be finished ?


Interlocks save lives and prevent lawsuits. Get it?

Oh yeah , I got it LONG before you said anything . This is a temporary
situation while we're under construction , GOT IT ? Or did you miss the part
about when the power feed is moved from the temporary service to the
permanent location on the NEW HOUSE I'M BUILDING there will be an interlock
?
You may be smart , but your reading comprehension needs a little work .
--
Snag
Now FOAD .

On Sat, 24 May 2014 22:19:54 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 5/24/2014 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 May 2014 19:35:50 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:


[snip]


Check Reliance and some of the others. Pretty sure there are videos
that will walk you through it as well.



Depending on your panel, there is a much simpler solution, called an
"interlock" You add a backfeed breaker to the panel with a linkage
that prevents both the main and generator breaker from being closed at
the same time. You install the Generator breaker to reflect the
maximum capability of the generator. Advantage is you don'r have to
guess what circuits you MAY want to energize ahead of time. You can
still dissable certain circuits you do not want to be able to draw
from the generator. Connect the generator by hard-wire connection or
gen-cord exterior plug, same as with a transfer switch.


Point taken. In fact, I looked at that system but rejected it because I
did not have room on my 200amp panel to spare for the transfer circuit
breakers required.

IIRC, those lockouts were pretty expensive for what they were. By the
time you buy them and the related breakers, you're north of $125.


Compared to $500 for a transfer switch - and the labour to install is
significantly less too.
Still, it would be nice to have EVERY 120v circuit available.g

As well as 240 volt "limitted) power

Stripped bare to the basics, either the manual transfer switch or the
interlock can work quite well for the OP and that was my point. I'm
still kicking myself for the 30+ years I've lived her without a backup
generator to supply the house simply because I "assumed" it would be too
much to install the transfer switch.


BTW, I also run an umbilical to the detached garage and shop because of
the spare refrigerator and freezer out there. Had room on that 100amp
panel to do the interlock but found a used transfer switch (another
Reliance) locally on Craigslist for $50 which made it a no brainer.

Per Dave C:
We are fortunate to have a Gas water heater/ stove and oven. In the
past, have "tapped" into a generous neighbor's feed, whom has had a
generator for years.

If the gas is piped in, I'd say a conversion kit ($300?) and whatever
plumbing is necessary would be something to look in to.

Does the neighbor run on gasoline? If not pick his brain...
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Terry Coombs:
I can adfford to be hot more than I can afford the fuel bill for runnin'
them .

Also, my experience during prolonged outages is that the gas stations'
power is out too.... making it difficult to procure gasoline if you do
not have enough stored.
--
Pete Cresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Terry Coombs:
I can afford to be hot more than I can afford the fuel bill for
runnin' them .

Also, my experience during prolonged outages is that the gas stations'
power is out too.... making it difficult to procure gasoline if you do
not have enough stored.

That's not necessarily true up here in the woods . We have miles and miles
of power lines running thru the woods , and though they do a pretty good job
of keeping the easements cleared , one big tree can cause all kinds of havoc
.. And some places are kinda difficult to get to with big equipment ...
--
Snag

some things to ponder. A secure location far enough from your home so the generator noise isnt irritating but far enough away so carbon monoxide doesnt get back into your home. that happened around here the family died.

it will be a good idea to to bury a heavy steel ring set in concrete with a heavy chain and lock. so no one can easily steal your prized possesion.

then you need a safe power plug near the generators location with heavy conductors made espically for this purpose. it cant be a double male.

its a good idea to buy a small inverter, say 1000 watts to provide lighting when the generator isnt running. connect to car battery

running the generator full time will waste gasoline....

of course none of this matters if your not home in say the dead of winter when the power fails. your home can still freeze solid

you migh check the cost of auto standby generators, they have gotten much more affordable...

its a good idea to have a little extra capacity for your neighbors, to keep them from freezing, or at least provide some lights...

if they are using your power they wouldnt call and complain to the police about the noise....

one last thing its good to have some lights in your home and key places where the generator will live so you can see to set it up.....

bob haller wrote:
some things to ponder. A secure location far enough from your home so
the generator noise isnt irritating but far enough away so carbon
monoxide doesnt get back into your home. that happened around here
the family died.

The genset is in my machine shop about 50 feet from the house .

it will be a good idea to to bury a heavy steel ring set in concrete
with a heavy chain and lock. so no one can easily steal your prized
possesion.

Our dog has her own door - 50 lb shepherd mix . She bites .

then you need a safe power plug near the generators location with
heavy conductors made espically for this purpose. it cant be a double
male.

Single male plug , the other end hooks to a breaker in my shop sub-panel .
8 gauge will handle any load the genny will support .

its a good idea to buy a small inverter, say 1000 watts to provide
lighting when the generator isnt running. connect to car battery

Part of the "housing complex" here is a 25' camping trailer - for now .
When the house is finished other arrangements will be made . The camper has
it's own battery charging system .

running the generator full time will waste gasoline....


Got that right , and the camper has a big ol' deep cycle battery .

of course none of this matters if your not home in say the dead of
winter when the power fails. your home can still freeze solid

Not if the fire is still going in the wood burning stove we heat with .
We did have some problems last winter when the temps dove to near zero while
we were out of town , but they were limited to a frozen water hose this was
before I started to build the house and waste/sewer drain pipe .

you migh check the cost of auto standby generators, they have gotten
much more affordable...

We'd have to have a propane tank or gasoline/diesel storage tank put in ,
no natgas out here in the weeds .

its a good idea to have a little extra capacity for your neighbors,
to keep them from freezing, or at least provide some lights...

They're welcome to join us here . The nearest neighbor's house is over 200
yards from our house . They heat with wood too , and have their own genset .

if they are using your power they wouldnt call and complain to the
police about the noise....


Heh , they wouldn't anyway , they'd barely hear it .

one last thing its good to have some lights in your home and key
places where the generator will live so you can see to set it up.....


Battery power in the camper can give us light for many hours if we put the
refrigerator on gas . Most of the folks out here are prepared for outages ,
they occur frequently enough that it's stupid not to .
--
Snag

Per Terry Coombs:
Battery power in the camper can give us light for many hours if we put the
refrigerator on gas .

Propane, right? Or do you have nat gas piped in?
--
Pete Cresswell

On 5/25/2014 10:03 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Terry Coombs:
I can adfford to be hot more than I can afford the fuel bill for runnin'
them .

Also, my experience during prolonged outages is that the gas stations'
power is out too.... making it difficult to procure gasoline if you do
not have enough stored.

Just finished my biennial change of gasoline by putting old in the car
and buying new and adding Stabil. Stabil says good for a year but I've
been getting two. It is a pain and I told my wife that the genius in
the EPA that mandated spill proof cans should have use one once.

On 5/26/2014 2:55 PM, Frank wrote:
On 5/25/2014 10:03 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Terry Coombs:
I can adfford to be hot more than I can afford the fuel bill for runnin'
them .

Also, my experience during prolonged outages is that the gas stations'
power is out too.... making it difficult to procure gasoline if you do
not have enough stored.

Just finished my biennial change of gasoline by putting old in the car
and buying new and adding Stabil. Stabil says good for a year but I've
been getting two. It is a pain and I told my wife that the genius in
the EPA that mandated spill proof cans should have use one once.


Do a Google search or search YouTube... there are quite a number of
enterprising folks out there who feel as we do and have come up with
some nice retrofits to get us back to "the good old days." Just adding
a vent (with a tubeless tire valve and cap) will solve 95% of the headache.

Actually, the clowns who mandated this stuff should have one of their
spouts shoved up their...

Per Frank:
the genius in
the EPA that mandated spill proof cans should have use one once.

The best comment I heard was something like "They're really good at
keeping gasoline inside the container..... but not so good when it comes
to getting gasoline out of the container."

My personal guess for my use is that my spillage rate is at *least* 10x
with the CARB-compliant nozzles than with the old-fashioned nozzles. The
two kinds I have used were not *too* bad when new, but after a few
months the jamming-related spillage became excessive.

I have a couple of NATO cans and they're pretty good: zero spillage,
seemingly robust (as long as you get the real deal with the sprayed-in
lining), and easy to pour from. I still have a couple of plastic
containers, but would not buy anything plastic larger than one gallon
now that I know about the NATO cans.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 5/26/2014 3:55 PM, Frank wrote:

Just finished my biennial change of gasoline by putting old in the car and buying new and adding Stabil. Stabil says good for a year but I've
been getting two. It is a pain and I told my wife that the genius in the EPA that mandated spill proof cans should have use one once.

Those clowns don't even know what a gas can is. They have a lawn service.

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-U2-51-S-.../dp/B000BQO15I

We'd have to have a propane tank or gasoline/diesel storage tank put in ,
no natgas out here in the weeds

propane is probably the better way to go, its useful for heating, cooking etc etc.

unlike natural gas its self contained to your property.....