In article ,
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

pongespob wrote:
On May 24, 9:20 am, "PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?


Everyone is born an atheist until some get their mind filled with the
bull**** of religion. Religion is the choice to ignore reason in
deference to ancient fairy tales for the sole reason that a lot of
other people do with no justification whatsoever other than social
pressure.

If that helps you sleep at night the run with it.


So you're claiming that babies believe in god?

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article 20130524085800.9ccb25805b1616f6f676023d@fidemturb are.com,
Fidem Turb�re, the non-existent atheist goddess
wrote:



Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
"reverted" to atheism.
Atheism is a faith


What do you think we have faith in?

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:

Why would they be? You seem to assume that atheists have beliefs. I'm
not certain which beliefs you think atheists have. Could you identify an
atheist belief and explain why any atheist would get upset if you
question it?

The belief is that there is no God.


Only a tiny percentage of atheists believe that.

Most of us just don't believe in ANY god because we have yet to see
evidence that any of the exist.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman

No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
gods.
Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
not believing.

Exactly.

What it is not is a belief that no god exists.


Let's go back to the valid definition of atheism, the lack of belief in
any gods. Where does that require evidence that any particular god does
not exist?

How does it do anything but? YOu are saying there are no gods.

Not true.


Lack of gods mean they don't exist or there would be a god or two
floating around. I did not say anything about a particular god (thus the
lower case "g" to keep my high school English teachers happy-grin).
Until you can prove that there are no gods to believe, atheism is just
the mirror image of theism (with their own brand of fundamentalism).

But the vast majority of us DO NOT believe that god doesn't exist.

What it is is the lack of a reason TO believe.

Can you answer the question nobody else has been able to answer: WHY
should we believe that any god exists?

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:34:35 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote in alt.atheism:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman

No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
gods.
Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
not believing.

I do not believe in any gods. That does not imply that I assert that no
gods exist.

So you want to have it both ways? Covering bases in case?
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized
there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there
wasn't an afterlife. -Douglas Adams


Repeating your claim does not make it true when your logic is not valid.
Yet you seem to think your does.
The bottom line despite all of the semantics (including those of my
own) is that you have no way to prove that your lack of belief is any
more valid than any existing belief. Thus it is every bit as much of a
faith as any religion.
(actually from the view of the religious person it is probably a
braver one since if you are wrong you get to rot in whatever version of
hell is being used. If the religious person is wrong nothing happens and
he doesn't know about it after death.)


Oh, dear, big mistake bringing up the idiocy of Pascal's Wager.

There are not 2 choices, there are tens of thousands. What if you've
chosen the wrong god to believe in?

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Christopher A. Lee wrote:


Yet another pig-ignorant, stupid, nasty lying theist.

Why are you bigoted morons incapable of grasping the fact that atheism
is no different than your own not believing in Santa Claus?

Well is certainly isn't your debating skills now is it?


And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.

What "beliefs" do atheists have that you are lying about, pathological
liar?
The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
other side can prove there is ONE.


But we don't believe there is no god.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:


The belief that there is no god. You can't prove it any more than the
other side can prove there is ONE.

You do know that you have offered a strawman to attack, do you not?

No I haven't, not all. It is a fundamental part of the issue. How can
you be so overwhelmingly sure that your essential unprovable belief (or
lack of belief if you want to go that route) is the one and only True

Who says we do? Who said anything even close to that? The exact words,
please.


One yet you can't prove your lack of belief is any more right than the
other sides is? Especially since many want to say so vicerously and
stridently and with every bit as much as loud as those on the other side
proclaim their's?
You can no more prove your lack of belief is right and warranted
than the other side can their' is right and warranted.

How can a lack of belief be right or wrong?

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:

If you are curious why I don't believe in a specific god, I might be
able to enlighten you, but, as for all possible gods, all I can say is
that I do not consider believing in any until there is evidence for one
of them.

Yet those who do believe have ample evidence. Just evidence you don't
find convincing... given your beliefs.

List that evidence right he

....
....
....
....
....
....
....
....
....
....

Looking forward to finally seeing some of that evidence.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

harry wrote:
On May 24, 3:02 pm, Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote
:









Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-scouts-vote-t
o- lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts
are still a bigoted organization.

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why
must Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

The BSA is per se a religious institution
so I don't know how they could be forced to
accept atheists.

The BSA is not religious.
It was invented in the UK primarily to prepare boys for service in
the imperial British army though it has changed since then.

Baden Powell emphasized God throughout his writing including the
promise and the law

He also intend Scouting to develop good citizens from youth throught
activities and learning, teaching them to prefer service before self.

And atheists, based on what we see here on this group, are far more
moral than theists.

Ummmm sure, however basing conclusions on an anonymous newsgroup with so few
participants and so many trolls will surely skew the results severely

--
PV

In Pierre Trudeau, Canada has finally produced
a Prime Minister worthy of assassination.
- Irving Layton

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
wrote in message
news:20130524090108.afc2078f8c5c32e846550ad8@fidem turbare.com...
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:08:55 -0500
"Attila Iskander" wrote:
"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
wrote in message
news:20130523234032.071f34029fd9745d79937b38@fidem turbare.com...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 20:54:56 -0700
J wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:38:11 -0500, Mitchell Holman
nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

This was voted upon by the BSA, not imposed by some judge with an
agenda. It is what it is, so be it.

In the USA, because judges are elected, one could argue for the
likelihood of said agenda being "re-election."

Some are, some are not
Would you like to try again ?

See my response to Joe Bruno.


Joe who ?
I have no intention to go fishing for your response

In the meantime your claim is BULL****
Some judges are elected, some are not

"Doug" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:11:07 -0500, "Attila Iskander"
wrote:

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"

wrote in message
news:20130523234312.18c11ed8fac99ed2d628a706@fid emturbare.com...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700
Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.

It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
as they do. The organization is defective and needs new leadership
that respects and embraces the personal freedoms of its membership.


You always have the choice of joining and trying to change it
Alternately you can start something equivalent modified to meet your
standards.

Always funny to see people come along and criticize a group of people who
join together for whatever reasons , that don't meet the critics'
standards.



What a bunch of homophobics. Being a former boy scout myself many
years ago, we didn't think about it then and for all I know, perhaps
some were gay then but were in the closet. So now it's just more
official, that's all. For me, as long as they keep their hands off,
let it be.

Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.


So where do you draw the line ?
Because you can be sure that someone will protest your line and claim that
you're being intolerant and discriminatory doing so,.

"linuxgal" wrote in message
...
Doug wrote:
Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.

"We" don't do anything, it's for the Boy Scouts to decide.


Exactly

Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net
wrote:

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

Yet another stupid, nasty, lying theist.

Did the moron "choose" not to believe in Santa Claus?

Well another educated response........not

Please explain where the lie is?

A person cannot CHOOSE to believe or not believe.

If I ordered you to believe in leprechauns, could you do it?

Wow you really believe that people CAN'T choose what to believe? Your faith
in people is pretty shallow if that is true.

Ordering me to believe is not offering a choice, last time I looked in
Canada, there is nothing ordering me to believe or not to believe.

Many people are raised in a religion who go on to choose to reject those
beliefs and replace them with their own so did they not consciously choose
to believe in something other then what they were raised with?


--
PV

In Pierre Trudeau, Canada has finally produced
a Prime Minister worthy of assassination.
- Irving Layton

"Ben Kaufman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:12:26 -0500, "Attila Iskander"

wrote:

"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/23/2013 11:50 PM, harry wrote:
On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD



It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
potential victims.

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.



Ironic that by definition an individual attracted to someone of the same
sex
is NOT "straight".
But hey, let's not let little details like that get in the way.


Little details like "straight" is a homonym, and under the applicable
definition
of heterosexual, asexuals are also "not straight."



In this case, your sophistry is just bull****

"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/24/2013 7:12 AM, Attila Iskander wrote:
"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/23/2013 11:50 PM, harry wrote:
On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-

lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD



It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
potential victims.

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more
strictly enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in
Scouting.



Ironic that by definition an individual attracted to someone of the same
sex is NOT "straight".
But hey, let's not let little details like that get in the way.

OK, what's your definition of men who sexually abuse prepubescent and
young pubescent boys preferentially, who otherwise are heterosexual (i.e.
don't have or want to have sex with sexually mature men), and are almost
always married to women?


Pedophiles is the term I use.
And Just like rape, it's not really about the sex. It's about power and
control
And many will marry women as camouflage


Gay men are not attracted to prepubescent and pubescent boys at a greater
rate than are, let's say, otherwise straight men.


Agreed
Pedophilia is generally not about being straight or gay.
It's about having control over someone who is not able to stand up to you.



Or are you sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex no matter how
young they are?

Sexual attraction starts with puberty
Before then the great majority of kids are pretty asexual, unless they are
socialized to be otherwise
Case in point little girls participating in beauty pageants when they can
barely walk.
(That's a perversion in my mind equal to pedophilia)

Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

pongespob wrote:
On May 24, 9:20 am, "PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?


Everyone is born an atheist until some get their mind filled with
the bull**** of religion. Religion is the choice to ignore reason in
deference to ancient fairy tales for the sole reason that a lot of
other people do with no justification whatsoever other than social
pressure.

If that helps you sleep at night the run with it.


So you're claiming that babies believe in god?

Wow you read a lot between the lines, all imaginary but lots all the same

I am claiming that you are free to believe what you want to believe.
However that doesn't mean you are free to belittle my beliefs or shove yours
down my throat

The world would be much happier if everyone would quit trying to force
others to believe as they do.

Try it, you might find yourself happier

--
PV

In Pierre Trudeau, Canada has finally produced
a Prime Minister worthy of assassination.
- Irving Layton

"Christopher A. Lee" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600, "PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net
wrote:

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

Yet another stupid, nasty, lying theist.

Did the moron "choose" not to believe in Santa Claus?



Did you chose to be a doofus ?
Or did you come by it naturally ?

Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:

Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

Because the only reason to discriminate against atheists is bigotry.

So the only reason to discriminate against Spirituality is.......?

The Scouting movement has had a Christian base from the beginning, read
Scouting for Boys if you don't believe me. So why should it change it's
belief structure because some don't like it.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few....or the one.

--
PV

In Pierre Trudeau, Canada has finally produced
a Prime Minister worthy of assassination.
- Irving Layton

"Not X" wrote in message
...
On 05/24/2013 08:20 AM, PV wrote:

[snip]

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts
change to accommodate those that choose atheism?


Atheism is simply the state of NOT being afflicted by a debilitating
condition. It is NOT a choice, the same way NOT having Alzheimer's disease
isn't a choice.


You are not born atheist
It's a choice you make somewhere along the way.

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
wrote in message
news:20130524085800.9ccb25805b1616f6f676023d@fidem turbare.com...
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:20:46 -0600
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote:
Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

Sexual orientation is not a choice,

That's not entirely true. Some people "choose to experiment" and, of
them, some find that they enjoy it. However, I do agree that sexual
orientation tends to be a "built-in characteristic" for many people.


That's got nothing to do with the way you are wired


however atheism is, so why must Scouts change to accommodate those
that choose atheism?

Atheism is a state of nature.

That would be agnosticism
Atheism like theism IS a choice

Theism is a choice

At least this part is right

that diverts from natural human integrity, and those who abandon
all "faith" have simply "reverted" to atheism.

Total justificatory BULL****




In fact, the Boy Scouts do accept atheist members, with the hopes of
these young children diverting to their flavour of theism, just like
most churches do.


Wrong again
But hey, let's not get in the way of YOUR prejudices



I view the Boy Scouts as a unique type of church that focuses on a lot
of outdoor activities with an emphasis on survival, and distinctly
places a greater importance on the chain of command. It's not known to
be extreme like Scientology, which has a strong Navy flavour, but there
is a serious religious component that makes it fit a church paradigm
albeit without so much preaching and brainwashing (theism is not
pressed nearly as hard because they have a lot of other things to do,
and so theism tends to be regarded more as "a fact of life").

--

YAWN
What an ignorant crock..

"Douglas Johnson" wrote in message
...
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Free Lunch wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:46:29 -0400, Kurt Ullman

No, that is not what atheism is. Atheism is the lack of belief in any
gods.
Yeah, you don't believe in gods. A lack of belief, by definition, is
not believing.

"I don't know" is a perfectly valid point of view and is quite different
from "I
know there is a God" and from "I know there isn't a God".


Agnosticism is a lack of belief
Atheism is a denial of belief there is no god

In article ,
Ben Kaufman wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
wrote:

In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.

Hopefully, this will cause the extremist bigoted religionists to quit, so the
next vote will bring them fully into the 21st century.


Yes.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

In article ,
"Attila Iskander" wrote:

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
wrote in message
news:20130523234312.18c11ed8fac99ed2d628a706@fidem turbare.com...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700
Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.

It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
as they do. The organization is defective and needs new leadership
that respects and embraces the personal freedoms of its membership.


You always have the choice of joining and trying to change it
Alternately you can start something equivalent modified to meet your
standards.

Always funny to see people come along and criticize a group of people who
join together for whatever reasons , that don't meet the critics' standards.

There are people doing both. That's how we got this change in policy.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:33:30 -0400, Ben Kaufman
wrote:

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:12:26 -0500, "Attila Iskander"
wrote:

"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/23/2013 11:50 PM, harry wrote:
On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD



It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
potential victims.

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.



Ironic that by definition an individual attracted to someone of the same sex
is NOT "straight".
But hey, let's not let little details like that get in the way.


Little details like "straight" is a homonym, and under the applicable definition
of heterosexual, asexuals are also "not straight."

Homonym? Asexuals are also not pedophiles. boggle

On Fri, 24 May 2013 10:46:26 -0500, Tom McDonald
wrote:

On 5/24/2013 7:12 AM, Attila Iskander wrote:
"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/23/2013 11:50 PM, harry wrote:
On May 24, 5:36 am, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-

lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD



It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
potential victims.

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more
strictly enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in
Scouting.



Ironic that by definition an individual attracted to someone of the same
sex is NOT "straight".
But hey, let's not let little details like that get in the way.

OK, what's your definition of men who sexually abuse prepubescent and
young pubescent boys preferentially, who otherwise are heterosexual
(i.e. don't have or want to have sex with sexually mature men), and are
almost always married to women?

Bull****.

Gay men are not attracted to prepubescent and pubescent boys at a
greater rate than are, let's say, otherwise straight men.

Lies.

Or are you sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex no matter
how young they are?

Opposite sex? What does that have to do with the Boy Scouts? ...or
are you just projecting again?

On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:13:03 -0400, Ben Kaufman
wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:50:24 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 24, 5:36*am, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
*Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD



It's so the perverts/paedos of America can get better access to
potential victims.


It seems like they've had pretty good access under the homophobic rules.

....and it can only get better with those attracted to the only sex
that is in Scouts?

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:11:07 -0500, "Attila Iskander"
wrote:

"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
wrote in message
news:20130523234312.18c11ed8fac99ed2d628a706@fide mturbare.com...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700
Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.

It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
as they do. The organization is defective and needs new leadership
that respects and embraces the personal freedoms of its membership.


You always have the choice of joining and trying to change it
Alternately you can start something equivalent modified to meet your
standards.

We will see that happen now.

Always funny to see people come along and criticize a group of people who
join together for whatever reasons , that don't meet the critics' standards.

Lefties *NEED* to control others.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:07:19 -0700, linuxgal
wrote:

Doug wrote:
Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
to be in the boy scouts? That's where I have a problem deciding.

"We" don't do anything, it's for the Boy Scouts to decide.

....and pay the consequences, either way.

Though watch, they will now be forced to allow queer adult leadership.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:08:05 -0500, "Attila Iskander"
wrote:

"Jeanne Douglas" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.


Is that a new definition of bigot ?
Or is that the PC one ?

Certainly. "If you don't agree with me, you're a racist."

On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:32:14 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 24, 3:02*pm, Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:
"PV" edrnouser@ spam telus.net wrote :









Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-scouts-vote-t
o- lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

* * The BSA is per se a religious institution
so I don't know how they could be forced to
accept atheists.

The BSA is not religious.

You're a liar, harry. It most certainly *is* a religious (though
non-sectarian) organization. You *cannot* be a member without
affirming your belief in a superior being.

It was invented in the UK primarily to prepare boys for service in the
imperial British army though it has changed since then.

Is that why its name is "Boy Scouts of AMERICA", harry? You really
are a moron.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:11:20 -0700, linuxgal
wrote:

PV wrote:
Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

They ought to change, they are not required to change. It's sort of
like those country clubs that only accept whites.

Wrong, as always.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 11:33:15 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Not X wrote:

On 05/24/2013 08:20 AM, PV wrote:

[snip]

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must Scouts
change to accommodate those that choose atheism?


Atheism is simply the state of NOT being afflicted by a debilitating
condition. It is NOT a choice, the same way NOT having Alzheimer's
disease isn't a choice.

I get a kick out of atheists who out religious the religious.

....or the "tolerant" lefties who out bigot the bigots.

In article
,
harry wrote:

On May 24, 2:27*pm, "Doug" wrote:
On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:11:07 -0500, "Attila Iskander"









wrote:
"Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"

wrote in message
news:20130523234312.18c11ed8fac99ed2d628a706@fide mturbare.com...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700
Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
*Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

The fact that they had to take it to a vote seems strange to me, but
it's good to know that 39% of the upper echelon are still anti-gay.

It's disappointing that people give as much respect to The Boy Scouts
as they do. *The organization is defective and needs new leadership
that respects and embraces the personal freedoms of its membership.

You always have the choice of joining and trying to change it
Alternately you can start something equivalent modified to meet your
standards.

Always funny to see people come along and criticize a group of people who
join together for whatever reasons , that don't meet the critics'
standards.

What a bunch of homophobics. * Being a former boy scout myself many
years ago, we didn't think about it then and for all I know, perhaps
some were gay then but were in the closet. * So now it's just more
official, that's all. *For me, as long as they keep their hands off,
let it be.

Now taking to the next level, what do we do with transgenders wanting
to be in the boy scouts? * That's where I have a problem deciding.

What about paedophiles? They should be admitted also.

Nonsense.

--

JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

On Fri, 24 May 2013 12:03:20 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article 20130524085800.9ccb25805b1616f6f676023d@fidemturb are.com,
Fidem TurbÄ?re, the non-existent atheist goddess
wrote:



Atheism is a state of nature. Theism is a choice that diverts from
natural human integrity, and those who abandon all "faith" have simply
"reverted" to atheism.
Atheism is a faith every bit as much as any other. It is not a state
of nature, what ever nebulousness that term means.

And atheists can be every bit as shrill and rock ribbed as any Southern
Baptist if you dare to question any of their beleifs.

The Southern Baptists are at least more consistent and nicer.

"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/24/2013 8:20 AM, PV wrote:
Jeanne Douglas wrote:
In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are
still a bigoted organization.

Sexual orientation is not a choice, however atheism is, so why must
Scouts
change to accommodate those that choose atheism?

If religion, or lack thereof, is a matter of choice, as are many other
things, why should Scouts single out one religious belief (i.e. 'None')
for special disdain? The only relevant part of the Scout Law that could
conceivably come into play is the last Law, A Scout is Reverent. There is
nothing whatsoever keeping an atheist Scout or Scouter from being
reverent. Nothing at all.

So why the disbarring of atheist boys and men from Scouting?


Which group has disbarred atheist boys and men ?
Considering that most Scout groups are usually run though a church, it's no
surprise that most members are of that faith.

I was involved with 2 scout groups in my life
One was run by the local Catholic Church, and thus was oriented to
Catholicism, since their Chaplain was Catholic and his church basement was
used.
The other was organized through 2 churches of the same Ethnic group.
One Catholic, the other Protestant (Calvinist).
Since the Jewish Community was too small to have their own synagogue, the
Jewish Children had the choice of joining either the Catholic or Protestant
troop.
A lot of activities alternated between the 2 Churches.
The Summer camp was held on property owned in common by the 2 Churches,
where the 2 Churches also held fund-raiser picnics during the summer months
During the Summer camp, the Catholic Priest and Calvinist Minister held a
common Sunday mass/service, And when a rabbi who spoke the language showed
up, he was always welcome to hold a Service on Saturday.
Attendance for the Scouts was mandatory for ALL services.

The Churches also used the same site for their fundraiser picnics, Just
about every member of the community irrespective of religious affiliation,
showed up
There was usually some really stiff competition between the ladies when it
came to traditional dishes.
There was also an annual Men's Picnic, where the men were responsible for
ALL the food, from appetizer to deserts. Typically the men's picnic were
very non-standard but traditional dishes, such as a spit roasted steer, or
wild goose hunter style. I clearly remember the year that the men went
hunting for moose, which was the main dish at the picnic
And the women were only allowed to enjoy being served and decide which
dishes would be the winners that year.
Over the span of 30+ years, this community was able to build 2 churches and
a synagogue, as well as a retirement home for their community.

So I just think back of the tolerance of that community for their members
and their
religious beliefs
And when I see the lack of tolerance shown by either theist or atheists, I
just have to shake my head.

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:46:52 -0700, linuxgal
wrote:

Tom McDonald wrote:
It's a start. I think a good start. But it's ultimately doomed to either
be expanded to allow gay leaders, or to go back to not allowing openly
gay youth as Scouts. As it stands, a gay young man can be a great Scout
until he turns 18, at which point he is, what, not a great Scout?

I don't think so. Getting Eagle Scout, they can't take it away from
you, anymore than they could take away Bubba's status as a Rhodes Scholar.

They can (at least for now) disallow you from being a scout leader. I
think they just screwed that pooch, though.

"Alfred E. Newman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
wrote:

In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD

Jeanne, why do you say they are still bigoted? Is it because you
weren't allowed to join because of what you have between your legs? Or
was it because of what you don't have between your ears?



I'll go with choice #2

"linuxgal" wrote in message
...
Tom McDonald wrote:

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.

If you must have pedophiles in Scouting, you probably want nothing but
straight pedophiles, in the Boy Scouts where they have no girls to diddle,
and also in the Girl Scouts where they have no boys to diddle.



Pedophiles are pedophiles
They are more into "small children as sexual objects to control" than either
boys or girls.

"Tom McDonald" wrote in message
...
On 5/24/2013 9:44 AM, linuxgal wrote:
Tom McDonald wrote:

Nope. They already had that access. Now the rules will be more strictly
enforced, and that will mean fewer straight pedophiles in Scouting.

If you must have pedophiles in Scouting, you probably want nothing but
straight pedophiles, in the Boy Scouts where they have no girls to
diddle, and also in the Girl Scouts where they have no boys to diddle.

It's a bit of a conundrum, for me at least, what to call adult males who
have sex with adult women, not adult men, but diddle little boys and/or
girls.

'Homosexual' isn't quite right. Neither is, I'll grant you, 'straight'.
But I'm unsure what nomenclature to use when confronted with the fact that
the pedophiles I was aware of as a kid were all adult males with wives and
children, and who never, to my knowledge, engaged in sex with other men.

AIUI, gay men are no more sexually attracted to young boys than straight
men are sexually attracted to young girls. That means that, of course,
some are; but I'm not aware of that happening at a significantly greater
rate with gays than with straights.

Sexuality is fascinating, and talking about it can be
frustrating--especially at times like in this discussion.

Or, of course, when one isn't getting any.



Pedophilia is much like rape
It's more about power and control than sex.

"Jeanne Douglas" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Alfred E. Newman wrote:

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:36:09 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
wrote:

In article ,
Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:

Boy Scouts vote to lift ban on gay youth
May 23 2013

GRAPEVINE, Texas -- The Boy Scouts of America voted
Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay
kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most
popular youth organizations, ditching membership
guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 61 percent of Scouting's National Council of 1,400
delegates from across the country voted to lift the ban,
BSA officials said. The final tally was 757 yes votes,
to 475 no.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...couts-vote-to-
lift-ban-on-gay-youth?lite

It's about ****ing time!

Next step is to allow atheists. Until that day, the Boy Scouts are still
a bigoted organization.

--

JD

Jeanne, why do you say they are still bigoted? Is it because you
weren't allowed to join because of what you have between your legs? Or
was it because of what you don't have between your ears?

I had the Girl Scouts available to me. A FAR better organization than
the Boy Scouts.

Sadly, our troop leader was a bitch who favored her daughter and her
buddies over the rest of the troop, so I dropped out as soon as I was
allowed.


Too bad your example proves otherwise