"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

The problem with driving at 85 mph is that, even a small
ripple or object on the road will make my truck lurch and
I will spill my beer !!!!!

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit



Regardless how good the cars are made, I think the weak point is
people's reflexes and reaction times. The only fallacy to this is
that I have also seen speed limits change back and forth for given
stretches of roads. FWIW, many years ago I was told out in west
Texas, people used to drive at 90+ mph minimum tho the speed limit was
less. This was where it was desert and straight boring roads.

On 11/18/2012 7:28 AM, HeyBub wrote:

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials

The difference is the drivers in 1958 were not busy texting.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit


On the other hand- the most important piece of equipment in autos has
gone *way* downhill. There were no cup holders, cell phones, GPS's,
laptops, or noise canceling headphones in the cars of the 70's.

Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Jim

On Nov 18, 4:52*am, Robert wrote:
The problem with driving at 85 mph is that, even a small
ripple or object on the road will make my truck lurch and
I will spill my beer !!!!!

Not to mention having to put my book down to correct the steering!

Harry K

On Nov 18, 5:14*am, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

Regardless how good the cars are made, I think the weak point is
people's reflexes and reaction times. * The only fallacy to this is
that I have also seen speed limits change back and forth for given
stretches of roads. * FWIW, many years ago I was told out in west
Texas, people used to drive at 90+ mph minimum tho the speed limit was
less. *This was where it was desert and straight boring roads.

Re rflexes/reaction time. Those went out the window when it became
standard to tailgate. 90% of the cars I see in moderate to dense
traffic are way to close. Just eyeball the next clump of cars you
see.

Re 90+ Back then, just as today, such claims are 90% BS I spent many
years in
the 60/70s in Central Tex (San Angelo/San Antonio) Traffic on those
wide open,
straight streches were the usual 'posted plus 10%' which is common in
every state

I live on a major 2 lane hiway and edveryone says "drive 65 and you'll
get run over (posted is 60). Odd, I hit that highway for a 50mile
trip, set my speedo at 64/65 and will be passed at most by two
vehicles and will pass maybe 3 in that 50 miles.

Harry K

On Nov 18, 7:10*am, diy savant wrote:
On 11/18/2012 7:28 AM, HeyBub wrote:

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials

The difference is the drivers in 1958 were not busy texting.

No difference, the morons still drive as fast as they would if not
texting, etc.

Harry K

On 11/18/2012 9:53 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit


On the other hand- the most important piece of equipment in autos has
gone *way* downhill. There were no cup holders, cell phones, GPS's,
laptops, or noise canceling headphones in the cars of the 70's.

Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Jim


I won't even talk on my cellphone while driving, if I answer it I tell
the caller, "I'm driving and I'll call you when I reach my destination."
If it's an emergency, I pull over to the side of the road and talk to
them. I spend half my drive time dodging yackers and texters who are an
extremely hazardous impediment to the efficient flow of traffic. O_o

TDD

Harry K wrote:
On Nov 18, 5:14 am, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

Regardless how good the cars are made, I think the weak point is
people's reflexes and reaction times. The only fallacy to this is
that I have also seen speed limits change back and forth for given
stretches of roads. FWIW, many years ago I was told out in west
Texas, people used to drive at 90+ mph minimum tho the speed limit was
less. This was where it was desert and straight boring roads.

Re rflexes/reaction time. Those went out the window when it became
standard to tailgate. 90% of the cars I see in moderate to dense
traffic are way to close. Just eyeball the next clump of cars you
see.

Re 90+ Back then, just as today, such claims are 90% BS I spent many
years in
the 60/70s in Central Tex (San Angelo/San Antonio) Traffic on those
wide open,
straight streches were the usual 'posted plus 10%' which is common in
every state

I live on a major 2 lane hiway and edveryone says "drive 65 and you'll
get run over (posted is 60). Odd, I hit that highway for a 50mile
trip, set my speedo at 64/65 and will be passed at most by two
vehicles and will pass maybe 3 in that 50 miles.

Harry K

Try driving 4-5 MPH over the limit on many highways and you'll be holding
up traffic. Most 65 MPH highways I drive on run at 75 and higher.

On one major 65 MPH interstate that I drive on a lot, I set the cruise to
74 and drive right past the troopers in the medium. I gave up slowing down
when I see them many years ago because they obviously allow 74. I typically
drive in the left lane, moving to the right only when someone approaches
from the rear at a higher speed. I don't see the sense in moving
left-right-left all the time when driving 74 will mean that I will be
passing a lot of - but certainly not all - cars.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 11/18/2012 9:53 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-
On the other hand- the most important piece of equipment in autos has
gone *way* downhill. There were no cup holders, cell phones, GPS's,
laptops, or noise canceling headphones in the cars of the 70's.

Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Jim


I won't even talk on my cellphone while driving, if I answer it I tell
the caller, "I'm driving and I'll call you when I reach my destination."
If it's an emergency, I pull over to the side of the road and talk to
them. I spend half my drive time dodging yackers and texters who are an
extremely hazardous impediment to the efficient flow of traffic. O_o

I don't even look to see who called until I get where I'm going. I'm
not a cardiac surgeon, so I assume that a few minutes one way or the
other is inconsequential.

More amazing is that my 25 yr old son is the same way! [Daughter
not so much-- she has the 'hands free' setup-- but IMO spends too much
time on it.]

Jim

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 04:52:28 -0800 (PST), Robert
wrote:

The problem with driving at 85 mph is that, even a small
ripple or object on the road will make my truck lurch and
I will spill my beer !!!!!

Can't be spillin' the beer now, can we...

Recently there was news reports (and video) of the number of wild hogs
crossing this road in farm country. If you drive a motorcycle forget
your chances of survival, if you hit one.

Video page bottom:

http://automotivediscovery.com/85-mph-texan-tollway-invested-with-wild-hogs-video/9215405/

HeyBub wrote:
"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

On 11/18/2012 10:30 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 11/18/2012 9:53 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-
On the other hand- the most important piece of equipment in autos has
gone *way* downhill. There were no cup holders, cell phones, GPS's,
laptops, or noise canceling headphones in the cars of the 70's.

Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Jim


I won't even talk on my cellphone while driving, if I answer it I tell
the caller, "I'm driving and I'll call you when I reach my destination."
If it's an emergency, I pull over to the side of the road and talk to
them. I spend half my drive time dodging yackers and texters who are an
extremely hazardous impediment to the efficient flow of traffic. O_o

I don't even look to see who called until I get where I'm going. I'm
not a cardiac surgeon, so I assume that a few minutes one way or the
other is inconsequential.

More amazing is that my 25 yr old son is the same way! [Daughter
not so much-- she has the 'hands free' setup-- but IMO spends too much
time on it.]

Jim


Well, the only time I may use the phone while driving is when I'm
getting directions in real time but not at 80mph and certainly not
in heavy traffic. ^_^

TDD

On Nov 18, 4:19*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 11/18/2012 9:53 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:









On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

On the other hand- the most important piece of equipment in autos has
gone *way* downhill. * There were no cup holders, cell phones, GPS's,
laptops, or noise canceling headphones in the cars of the 70's.

Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Jim

I won't even talk on my cellphone while driving, if I answer it I tell
the caller, "I'm driving and I'll call you when I reach my destination."
If it's an emergency, I pull over to the side of the road and talk to
them. I spend half my drive time dodging yackers and texters who are an
extremely hazardous impediment to the efficient flow of traffic. O_o

TDD

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device

On Nov 18, 4:39*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0987x...feature=fvwrel

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:26:47 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Harry K wrote:
On Nov 18, 5:14 am, Doug wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:





"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

Regardless how good the cars are made, I think the weak point is
people's reflexes and reaction times. The only fallacy to this is
that I have also seen speed limits change back and forth for given
stretches of roads. FWIW, many years ago I was told out in west
Texas, people used to drive at 90+ mph minimum tho the speed limit was
less. This was where it was desert and straight boring roads.

Re rflexes/reaction time. Those went out the window when it became
standard to tailgate. 90% of the cars I see in moderate to dense
traffic are way to close. Just eyeball the next clump of cars you
see.

Re 90+ Back then, just as today, such claims are 90% BS I spent many
years in
the 60/70s in Central Tex (San Angelo/San Antonio) Traffic on those
wide open,
straight streches were the usual 'posted plus 10%' which is common in
every state

I live on a major 2 lane hiway and edveryone says "drive 65 and you'll
get run over (posted is 60). Odd, I hit that highway for a 50mile
trip, set my speedo at 64/65 and will be passed at most by two
vehicles and will pass maybe 3 in that 50 miles.

Harry K

Try driving 4-5 MPH over the limit on many highways and you'll be holding
up traffic. Most 65 MPH highways I drive on run at 75 and higher.

On one major 65 MPH interstate that I drive on a lot, I set the cruise to
74 and drive right past the troopers in the medium. I gave up slowing down
when I see them many years ago because they obviously allow 74. I typically
drive in the left lane, moving to the right only when someone approaches
from the rear at a higher speed. I don't see the sense in moving
left-right-left all the time when driving 74 will mean that I will be
passing a lot of - but certainly not all - cars.


I did the same on I-71 going to Austin and back....set my cruise to 74
and drove by state troopers with no problem. I usually stayed in the
right lane unless I needed to pass. Of course there are some who
pass me up.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:04:05 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 18, 7:10*am, diy savant wrote:
On 11/18/2012 7:28 AM, HeyBub wrote:

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials

The difference is the drivers in 1958 were not busy texting.

No difference, the morons still drive as fast as they would if not
texting, etc.

Harry K


I don't see a problem with 85 or even 95 under the right conditions.
Daylight, dry, relatively straight road with easy curves, good tires
and suspension.

Some drivers though, do stupid things. Just last week I was doing 95
and was about to pass a slower (about 95) car and he changed lanes
with no signal. I just went around him, but he would have made it
safer with a blink of the turn signal so I knew where he would be when
I got to him.

On 11/18/2012 11:01 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 18, 4:19 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 11/18/2012 9:53 AM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:









On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 06:28:24 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"Perhaps by 2030 we'll be able to lawfully drive as fast as we should have
been allowed to drive back in 1990. But don't count on it. There's too much
revenue at stake."

and ...

"If it was "safe" and "reasonable" for a 1958 Chevy with drum brakes and
bias-plys [and independent suspension, non-independent rear axle, anti-sway
bars, etc.) to operate at 70, what of a 2013 Chevy with high-performance
four-wheel disc brakes and 17-inch alloy wheels shod with modern radials
designed for safe travel at continuous speeds in excess of 130 MPH? There
isn't a new (or recent vintage) car that isn't inherently safer (more
controllable, less likely to crash) at 90 MPH than any car of 1958 -- or
1968 (or 1978) -- was at 70. Yet speed limits are, for the most part, just
about back to where they were circa 1970."

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/1...-a-speed-limit

On the other hand- the most important piece of equipment in autos has
gone *way* downhill. There were no cup holders, cell phones, GPS's,
laptops, or noise canceling headphones in the cars of the 70's.

Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Jim

I won't even talk on my cellphone while driving, if I answer it I tell
the caller, "I'm driving and I'll call you when I reach my destination."
If it's an emergency, I pull over to the side of the road and talk to
them. I spend half my drive time dodging yackers and texters who are an
extremely hazardous impediment to the efficient flow of traffic. O_o

TDD

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

TDD

On 11/18/2012 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:19:26 -0600, The Daring Dufas


I won't even talk on my cellphone while driving, if I answer it I tell
the caller, "I'm driving and I'll call you when I reach my destination."
If it's an emergency, I pull over to the side of the road and talk to
them. I spend half my drive time dodging yackers and texters who are an
extremely hazardous impediment to the efficient flow of traffic. O_o

TDD

I tried using my phone in the car but I ran out of cord before I even
got out of the driveway.


There are chargers that plug into the cigarette lighter socket. O_o

TDD

Per Ed Pawlowski:
I don't see a problem with 85 or even 95 under the right conditions.

I cannot cite, but I read somewhere that above a certain speed
the consequences of loss of control increase all out of
proportion to the speed diff.

Half my family lives in Germany.

Their highways and general level of driver education are so far
above ours technically that there's almost no comparison and even
with Porches doing 150+ mixing it up with tandem tractor-trailers
pulling out to pass at 45 they *claim* a lower freeway fatality
rate than the US'.

But I lay virtually all of that to driver training and
infrastructure because when they do have a pileup, it tends to be
horrendous. Newscasts tend tb in the vein of "Between 7 and 10
people were killed, the exact number pending an inventory of body
parts."

--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:53:27 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:


Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Sex can BE fun ...

I've been flashed by gals, even seen them changing clothes while
driving....and all that other non-attentive behavior.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:39:07 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

Yes. driving a 5-ton Army truck with a jeep in the bed and pulling
another jeep. The truck had a governor and was limited to 55 MPH.

ZOOM, ZOOM right past me..

Ever drove a self-propelled howitzer through a small German town?

Per Tony Hwang:
Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

I have and not having gone to driving school over there or even
being able to understand German, have had to guess at the rules.

There seem tb three cardinal rules. I'm sure there are plenty
more, but these three really jump out at me:

1) Always have your turn signal on when changing lanes or
crossing any sort of lane marker.

Putting it on while changing doesn't count.
Stand by an area where a truck is parked such that
cars have to cross the center line and you can see
them - car-after-car - flip on the turn signal before
they cross the line.


2) Always, always yield the lane to closing traffic.

If they have to slow down, you didn't yield fast enough
and the offended driver is obligated to flash their high
beams repeatedly, scream, curse, and (if conditions
permit) shake their fist out the window.


3) Never, ever, for any reason, under any circumstances
pass on the right.

This makes adherence to #2 a lot easier. You pass
somebody, flip the signal on, pick your opening, and
ease back in the lane... Yeah, you look... but there's
never anybody there - the knuckleheads that speed up when
somebody "tries to cut them off" having been removed
from the gene pool by some unknown mechanism.


When I was there, everybody seemed tb playing by the same rules,
things may have deteriorated by now with the EU and so many more
drivers from other countries....

Start a thread in a driver-related forum on the proper way to
come down an on-ramp and merge with freeway traffic and you'll
soon see that there is substantial lack of agreement on driving
practices in the USA and near-fanatical adherence to opposing
ideas of what the rules are.

All that being said, my German relatives (motorheads all...)
express relief at how much less stressful it is to drive in the
USA than in Germany.


--
Pete Cresswell

Per Oren:
Too many drivers are doing too many things other than driving- so the
rest of us need to be hyper alert to look out for them.

Sex can BE fun ...

Ask Teddy Prendergast about that one.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

Of course they do, don't be silly.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:29:43 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Ed Pawlowski:
I don't see a problem with 85 or even 95 under the right conditions.

I cannot cite, but I read somewhere that above a certain speed
the consequences of loss of control increase all out of
proportion to the speed diff.

Half my family lives in Germany.

Their highways and general level of driver education are so far
above ours technically that there's almost no comparison and even
with Porches doing 150+ mixing it up with tandem tractor-trailers
pulling out to pass at 45 they *claim* a lower freeway fatality
rate than the US'.

But I lay virtually all of that to driver training and
infrastructure because when they do have a pileup, it tends to be
horrendous. Newscasts tend tb in the vein of "Between 7 and 10
people were killed, the exact number pending an inventory of body
parts."


Never drove in German, buy I have driven frequently in Italy. They
don't drink coffee and put on makeup. They stay to the right. They
drive faster than the US, but I feel safer

On 11/18/2012 1:18 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

Of course they do, don't be silly.


Gotcha! You have a dirty mind. "Gals still talk a lot while the guy is
driving." And if you believe that's what I was alluding to, you have
drain bamage. ^_^

TDD

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:18:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

Of course they do, don't be silly.

About a year ago there was a legal case here in CT. Couple was thrown
from the Mercedes convertible after crashing into a tree and the man
died. Police could not determine the driver. His family tried to say
she was driving and sued her. Woman gave her defense. "I could not
have been driving, I was giving him a BJ at the time of the accident"

On 11/18/2012 12:57 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:39:07 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

Yes. driving a 5-ton Army truck with a jeep in the bed and pulling
another jeep. The truck had a governor and was limited to 55 MPH.

ZOOM, ZOOM right past me..

Ever drove a self-propelled howitzer through a small German town?


I knew a veteran of The Army who drove M1 tanks while serving in Germany
and he said sometimes idiots in little VW type cars would
pass the tank in a convoy and make the mistake of stopping in front
of the tank. At least it supplied a bit of lubricant to the tank's
tracks. O_o

TDD

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:29:43 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Ed Pawlowski:
I don't see a problem with 85 or even 95 under the right conditions.

I cannot cite, but I read somewhere that above a certain speed
the consequences of loss of control increase all out of
proportion to the speed diff.

Half my family lives in Germany.

Their highways and general level of driver education are so far
above ours technically that there's almost no comparison and even
with Porches doing 150+ mixing it up with tandem tractor-trailers
pulling out to pass at 45 they *claim* a lower freeway fatality
rate than the US'.


One of the things they have going for them is their intolerance for
drunks driving.

Jim

On 11/18/2012 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:18:48 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

Of course they do, don't be silly.

About a year ago there was a legal case here in CT. Couple was thrown
from the Mercedes convertible after crashing into a tree and the man
died. Police could not determine the driver. His family tried to say
she was driving and sued her. Woman gave her defense. "I could not
have been driving, I was giving him a BJ at the time of the accident"


Why would a woman give a guy a banjo while he was driving, wouldn't that
be very distracting? O_o

TDD

You didn't meant to write farding?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
news:k8be87

Gotcha! You have a dirty mind. "Gals still talk a lot while the guy is
driving." And if you believe that's what I was alluding to, you have
drain bamage. ^_^

TDD

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:02:35 -0800 (PST), Harry K
wrote:


Re rflexes/reaction time. Those went out the window when it became
standard to tailgate. 90% of the cars I see in moderate to dense
traffic are way to close. Just eyeball the next clump of cars you
see.


Yup. I do 3k mile road trip at least once a year. See it all the
time in the left lane. I stay in the right lane to avoid the tailgate
crowd. Usually tucked about 2-300' behind a steady going semi doing
5-10 over. Nice that trucks use cruise now.
Haven't driven in Texas for years, but the Edens x-way (I-94) was the
fastest local road I drove, with big groups at 85 being pretty common.
Limit is 55.
The one that always took the prize was I-75 right through downtown
Atlanta in the daytime. Limit 55. I've been in groups doing 90-95
and we were getting passed. Never could figure that out.
Last couple years has been real close to 5-10 over.
And lots more mars lights.

On 11/18/2012 3:00 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
You didn't meant to write farding?


Nope, women fard around while driving. ^_^

TDD

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Tony Hwang:
Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

I have and not having gone to driving school over there or even
being able to understand German, have had to guess at the rules.

There seem tb three cardinal rules. I'm sure there are plenty
more, but these three really jump out at me:

1) Always have your turn signal on when changing lanes or
crossing any sort of lane marker.

Putting it on while changing doesn't count.
Stand by an area where a truck is parked such that
cars have to cross the center line and you can see
them - car-after-car - flip on the turn signal before
they cross the line.


2) Always, always yield the lane to closing traffic.

If they have to slow down, you didn't yield fast enough
and the offended driver is obligated to flash their high
beams repeatedly, scream, curse, and (if conditions
permit) shake their fist out the window.


3) Never, ever, for any reason, under any circumstances
pass on the right.

This makes adherence to #2 a lot easier. You pass
somebody, flip the signal on, pick your opening, and
ease back in the lane... Yeah, you look... but there's
never anybody there - the knuckleheads that speed up when
somebody "tries to cut them off" having been removed
from the gene pool by some unknown mechanism.


When I was there, everybody seemed tb playing by the same rules,
things may have deteriorated by now with the EU and so many more
drivers from other countries....

Start a thread in a driver-related forum on the proper way to
come down an on-ramp and merge with freeway traffic and you'll
soon see that there is substantial lack of agreement on driving
practices in the USA and near-fanatical adherence to opposing
ideas of what the rules are.

All that being said, my German relatives (motorheads all...)
express relief at how much less stressful it is to drive in the
USA than in Germany.

Hi,
I would be lying if I did not sweat when I first drove on Auto Bahn.
Another crazy place to drive is say Kuwait. Seems like there is no rule
of the road. Plain crazy and scary.

On 11/18/2012 4:54 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:54:08 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 11/18/2012 11:27 AM, wrote:


I tried using my phone in the car but I ran out of cord before I even
got out of the driveway.


There are chargers that plug into the cigarette lighter socket. O_o

TDD

Charger? I have not heard of this thing. My phone plugs into a jack on
the wall with a big round 4 pin connector and the phone company has
the battery


How do you manage the hand crank on the phone while you're driving? O_o

TDD

On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:51:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 11/18/2012 1:18 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

Of course they do, don't be silly.


Gotcha! You have a dirty mind. "Gals still talk a lot while the guy is
driving." And if you believe that's what I was alluding to, you have
drain bamage. ^_^

TDD

No. I came home from a three week trip. The bride picked me up from
the airport. I drove home. Suddenly she stripped down to a lacy
teddy. Got my attention for sure!

I could barely drive 20 miles.

Then she told me she was pregnant from our last interlude...

My mind is not dirty; at least not all the time, but it is frequently.

On 11/18/2012 5:08 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:


(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Tony Hwang:
Ever drove on German Auto Bahn?

I have and not having gone to driving school over there or even
being able to understand German, have had to guess at the rules.

There seem tb three cardinal rules. I'm sure there are plenty
more, but these three really jump out at me:

1) Always have your turn signal on when changing lanes or
crossing any sort of lane marker.

Putting it on while changing doesn't count.
Stand by an area where a truck is parked such that
cars have to cross the center line and you can see
them - car-after-car - flip on the turn signal before
they cross the line.


2) Always, always yield the lane to closing traffic.

If they have to slow down, you didn't yield fast enough
and the offended driver is obligated to flash their high
beams repeatedly, scream, curse, and (if conditions
permit) shake their fist out the window.


3) Never, ever, for any reason, under any circumstances
pass on the right.

This makes adherence to #2 a lot easier. You pass
somebody, flip the signal on, pick your opening, and
ease back in the lane... Yeah, you look... but there's
never anybody there - the knuckleheads that speed up when
somebody "tries to cut them off" having been removed
from the gene pool by some unknown mechanism.


When I was there, everybody seemed tb playing by the same rules,
things may have deteriorated by now with the EU and so many more
drivers from other countries....

Start a thread in a driver-related forum on the proper way to
come down an on-ramp and merge with freeway traffic and you'll
soon see that there is substantial lack of agreement on driving
practices in the USA and near-fanatical adherence to opposing
ideas of what the rules are.

All that being said, my German relatives (motorheads all...)
express relief at how much less stressful it is to drive in the
USA than in Germany.

Hi,
I would be lying if I did not sweat when I first drove on Auto Bahn.
Another crazy place to drive is say Kuwait. Seems like there is no rule
of the road. Plain crazy and scary.


People who will organize a demolition derby featuring Ferraris,
Lamborghinis and Bugatti Veyrons have got to be completely bonkers. O_o

TDD

On 11/18/2012 5:38 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:51:53 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 11/18/2012 1:18 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:27:56 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Illegal in the UK to use hand held cellphone while driving, has been
for years.
Or any other device


Yea but do the gals still.... you know, while the guy is driving? O_o

Of course they do, don't be silly.


Gotcha! You have a dirty mind. "Gals still talk a lot while the guy is
driving." And if you believe that's what I was alluding to, you have
drain bamage. ^_^

TDD

No. I came home from a three week trip. The bride picked me up from
the airport. I drove home. Suddenly she stripped down to a lacy
teddy. Got my attention for sure!

I could barely drive 20 miles.

Then she told me she was pregnant from our last interlude...

My mind is not dirty; at least not all the time, but it is frequently.


My mind isn't dirty, it's my eyes and ears. ^_^

TDD