On Nov 6, 2:01*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 11/6/2012 5:08 AM, Han wrote:









wrote in
:

On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 22:00:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Heck, it's the sheer size of the storm as you pointed out and the
population density which is much greater than here in the Southeast.
New York city has a population almost twice the population of my whole
state and the Birmingham Metro Area consisting of a number of smaller
communities is a bit over a million. It's impossible for folks from
here in The Southeast to comprehend the number of people packed into
such a small area as New York City. We're used to open spaces here and
when a tornado hits it's more likely to tear up unpopulated spaces
than to hit densely populated areas. I can't even imagine the number
of people in other "bigger" cities of the world and how natural
disasters would affect those people. O_o

TDD

I see 4 factors.
Houses built before a flood or wind code existed,
A storm that hit a huge area with a lot of people.
A bunch of people who just did not believe it was going to happen to
them.
About a million trees that should have been trimmed or just cut down.

My only damage in Charley came from a 40 foot mango tree falling on my
screen cage..
I rented a crane and 3 Latino gentlemen with chain saws and we did
some tree trimming while the hort pickup was free. I filled up an 18
wheeler and a half.

The crane I rented was pretty popular in the neighborhood too.
Everything was falling tree damage.

FPL got real aggressive about cleaning out the right of way too.

All correct. *PSEG did a bit of tree trimming after Irene and the freak
snowstorm, but you can't trim against some things, such as 3 ft diameter
oaks toppling over.

They will rebuild on the barrier islands, just like they rebuilt (how
many times) Galveston. *The Jersey shore as it is called is like a
religion for quite a few people, and a huge source of tourist dollars.
IMNSHO, they all should be rebuilt on pilings of 10ft, so the sea can
flow under in the next big storm, but I'm not sure they'll do that.
Most people will forget that Sandy was a warning and a promise of more
to come.

The fact that the NY/NJ/CT metro area is sort of densely populated (this
to TDD) should not be an excuse for lax rules and regulations regarding
buildings and infrastructure. *On the contrary. *Also, IMNSHO, mandatory
evacuation orders should be accompanied by conserving first responders'
efforts until it isn't dangerous for them anymore.

In this are there are a lot of trailer homes and regulations for proper
tie downs and such have come about due to losses during tornadoes and
high winds which will toss them around like toys if they're unsecured.
It ALWAYS takes a disaster for prudent measures to be put in place by
law but the rule makers always seem to go overboard with regulations to
show they're doing something and satisfy their lust for power over you.
Rahm Emanuel, a famous P.L.L.C.F. once said something to that effect,
"Never let a good crisis go to waste." I see the politicians in the area
affected by the storm doing the typical behavior whenever the peasants
run to the king and demand protection. Perhaps I'm just cynical but I've
seen it all before. There will be a lot of wasted tax dollars, graft and
corruption in the years/decades after The Sandy Disaster. O_o

TDD

Well if the laws are put in place before the disaster occurs, people
whinge about their rights.
Especially in America.

On 11/6/2012 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:42:02 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Nov 6, 12:49 am, wrote:


... The best idea I've read about years ago was to use 12" steel
I-beam for the pilings, welded cross members with a flat deck.

Steel and salt water don't go all that well together.

If the house (single story) blows off the pilings, it is easy build
back upon. The I-beams are better than wood pilings.

Don't believe it.

Ships are made out of steel. Any immersion is only brief.

That is a guy who was never a sailor.

Painting steel ships is an ongoing job and there is always someone
chipping and painting something.

The real problem near the beach is salt air. Hot dipped galvanized is
just a stop gap measure. You really need stainless or aluminum.


In the late 80's I was out in The Marshall Islands and I saw some of the
Japanese coastal gun emplacements from WWII rusting away. The gun
barrels and gears were flaking off layers of rust and crumbling but
the only intact pieces of metal were the galvanized sheet metal covers
on parts of the guns. ^_^

TDD

On 11/6/2012 2:52 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:44:12 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 11/6/2012 10:44 AM, wrote:

That is a guy who was never a sailor.

Painting steel ships is an ongoing job and there is always someone
chipping and painting something.

The real problem near the beach is salt air. Hot dipped galvanized is
just a stop gap measure. You really need stainless or aluminum.


In the late 80's I was out in The Marshall Islands and I saw some of the
Japanese coastal gun emplacements from WWII rusting away. The gun
barrels and gears were flaking off layers of rust and crumbling but
the only intact pieces of metal were the galvanized sheet metal covers
on parts of the guns. ^_^

TDD

This is a 4 year old hot dipped galvanized anchor

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/anchor.jpg


I saw a lot of corroded metal out in the islands and the galvanized
sheet metal that disintegrated was the metal that had its zinc coating
damaged or worn off. I've used spray on zinc coatings on parts in
cooling towers to add life to them. ^_^

TDD

On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:37:58 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Nov 5, 7:24Â*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 00:30:49 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Nov 4, 6:44Â*pm, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote :

On 11/4/2012 11:12 AM, Han wrote:
bob haller wrote in
:

On Oct 31, 8:40 am, Frank wrote:
On 10/31/2012 8:31 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

For me, they include:

* Run the generator every year
* Boredom is a terrible thing
* Candles don't put out enough light to be useful.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â* Â*www.lds.org
.

Things you should have already known.
Family here learned also that you should not run your generator
indoors.

My neighbor who came over for water an outage or two ago was
complaining that they could not find any D cells for their portable
radio.

Some people never learn.

A inverter is a wonderful thing, just connect to your car battery
and let engine idle. for a 100 bucks you can get a thousand watt
inverter, for lights, radio and a tv if the load isnt too heavy

I have a 150 Watt inverter and finally got a friend to help hooking
it up to the furnace (we went 99 hours without power in NE NJ,
07410). Â*Furnace is natural gas-fired, circulating hot water. Â*The
inverter hookup worked fine, but I had to have the engine running, of
course. Â*It is OK for short emergencies, but I'd like better. Â*Will
be looking ...

150 watts looks a bit small to me for running a furnace. Are you sure
it wasn't a 1,500 watt unit? O_o

TDD

I am sure. Â*The furnace only needs electricity to run a small circulating
pump, plus power up a solenoid for the damper. Â*Plus, it did work grin.
But I don't like to sacrifice my only vehicle for this if I can avoid it.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

If you can do it, the best solution is a small wood burning stove and
some wood in store.
The gas can go off too you know. Â*You can get stoves with a hotplate
to cook on.
You can always get more wood if the outage turns out to be a long one,
getting more petrol/gas might be difficult.
That is what I have, along with a five year stock of wood.

Saw all the long queues for petrol on the box over here. Those folks
should have bought Â*and stored a bicycle.

These sort of things are going to become more frequent.
Their houses will be near worthless now after they have rebuilt them.
They could and should flood proof them. I wonder if they have the wit
to do it?

Â*Floodproof? in Manhattan, Long Island, and Queens???? You are
dreaming, Harry. Out in the "sticks" they could (and some do) put them
up on stilts, but even Noah's Ark may have had a close call with
Sandy. It did take down the Bounty.

As whole neighbourhoods are demolished, raising the new houses would
be no problem
The lower floors have only garages and other non-habitable rooms.
Boundary walls are substantially constructed and form flood barriers
with watertight gates. Removable watertight barriers can be fitted to
doorways


Buildlings are of masonry construction and the lower parts of walls
and floors are tiled to swimming pool standards.
There can be no basements.
Electrical wiring is all run from the top down, there are no low level
outlets
The lower part of staircases is of concrete construction.
Fixed furniture is (eg kitchen) of metal.
There is high level easily accessible storage for high value items.
Skirting/baseboards are plastic fixed with brass screws
Arrangements are made to drain floodwater as it recedes.



Works for single family homes, but how are you going to put MURBS on
stilts and guarantee the footings won't wash out? One single family
house going down is not a disaster. An apartment building loosing it's
footing is.

On Nov 6, 7:20*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:27:48 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Nov 6, 11:42*am, Han wrote:
harry wrote :

On Nov 6, 12:49 am, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:20:38 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:55:54 -0500, wrote:

If they actually follow the FEMA rules, all of the Jersey shore
houses will be built on pilings when they put them back. If Jersey
is like NOLA they will allow them to ignore the law, they will
build back at grade and we will buy them new houses ,... again....
when the next storm comes.

Even houses on pilings didn't withstand the storm in many cases.
How
tall do you make the pilings? And how well do you crossbrace them?

... The best idea I've read about years ago was to use 12" steel
I-beam for the pilings, welded cross members with a flat deck.

Steel and salt water don't go all that well together.

If the house (single story) blows off the pilings, it is easy build
back upon. The I-beams are better than wood pilings.

Don't believe it.

Ships are made out of steel. *Any immersion is only brief.

Come on harry, you're not that dense, are you? *These houses are built
on/in dunes. *It always blows salt around there. *Good thick steel will
last a while, but sitting in the soil in salt water year round can't be
good for them.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

There are steel framed buildings in New York are there not?
There are steel piers in the UK more than a hundred years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Piers_Society
Here is an iron and steel building right by the sea in the UK more
than 100 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackpool_tower
With only paint protection.

They get painted every year. Most homeowners are not going to do that.
We have plenty of steel bridges but they are government boondoggles
that employ hundreds of maintenance people ... and they still fall
down now and then.
In the sub tropics the rust problem is a whole lot worse.
Heat speeds up the reaction

Aside from that, American houses are ****. Steel would easily outlast
them.

It depends on where you are talking about. If you are building under
the current coastal code, you end up with a very sturdy house.

Steel structures here don't get painted every year. The underwater
parts never on piers etc.
There are paint systems now that are good for thirty years in arduous
conditions, more in non arduous conditions.

On Nov 7, 2:28*am, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:37:58 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Nov 5, 7:24*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 00:30:49 -0800 (PST), harry

wrote:
On Nov 4, 6:44*pm, Han wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote :

On 11/4/2012 11:12 AM, Han wrote:
bob haller wrote in
:

On Oct 31, 8:40 am, Frank wrote:
On 10/31/2012 8:31 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

For me, they include:

* Run the generator every year
* Boredom is a terrible thing
* Candles don't put out enough light to be useful.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
* *www.lds.org
.

Things you should have already known.
Family here learned also that you should not run your generator
indoors.

My neighbor who came over for water an outage or two ago was
complaining that they could not find any D cells for their portable
radio.

Some people never learn.

A inverter is a wonderful thing, just connect to your car battery
and let engine idle. for a 100 bucks you can get a thousand watt
inverter, for lights, radio and a tv if the load isnt too heavy

I have a 150 Watt inverter and finally got a friend to help hooking
it up to the furnace (we went 99 hours without power in NE NJ,
07410). *Furnace is natural gas-fired, circulating hot water. *The
inverter hookup worked fine, but I had to have the engine running, of
course. *It is OK for short emergencies, but I'd like better. *Will
be looking ...

150 watts looks a bit small to me for running a furnace. Are you sure
it wasn't a 1,500 watt unit? O_o

TDD

I am sure. *The furnace only needs electricity to run a small circulating
pump, plus power up a solenoid for the damper. *Plus, it did work grin.
But I don't like to sacrifice my only vehicle for this if I can avoid it.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

If you can do it, the best solution is a small wood burning stove and
some wood in store.
The gas can go off too you know. *You can get stoves with a hotplate
to cook on.
You can always get more wood if the outage turns out to be a long one,
getting more petrol/gas might be difficult.
That is what I have, along with a five year stock of wood.

Saw all the long queues for petrol on the box over here. Those folks
should have bought *and stored a bicycle.

These sort of things are going to become more frequent.
Their houses will be near worthless now after they have rebuilt them.
They could and should flood proof them. I wonder if they have the wit
to do it?

*Floodproof? in Manhattan, Long Island, and Queens???? You are
dreaming, Harry. Out in the "sticks" they could (and some do) put them
up on stilts, but even Noah's Ark may have had a close call with
Sandy. It did take down the Bounty.

As whole neighbourhoods are demolished, raising the new houses would
be no problem
The lower floors have only garages and other non-habitable rooms.
Boundary walls are substantially constructed and form flood barriers
with watertight gates. Removable watertight barriers can be fitted to
doorways

Buildlings are of masonry construction and the lower parts of walls
and floors are tiled to swimming pool standards.
There can be no basements.
Electrical wiring is all run from the top down, there are no low level
outlets
The lower part of staircases is of concrete construction.
Fixed furniture is (eg kitchen) *of metal.
There is high level easily accessible storage for high value items.
Skirting/baseboards are plastic fixed with brass screws
Arrangements are made to drain floodwater as it recedes.

Works for single family homes, but how are you going to put MURBS on
stilts and guarantee the footings won't wash out? One single family
house going down is not a disaster. An apartment building loosing it's
footing is.

You use steel/concrete piles that are driven/bored in maybe twenty or
thirty feet.
Piles have been in use for two thousand years,

In article ,
wrote:

Works for single family homes, but how are you going to put MURBS on
stilts and guarantee the footings won't wash out? One single family
house going down is not a disaster. An apartment building loosing it's
footing is.

Depending on the soil conditions, most MURBS are already on footings.
The only real change would be that the first floor, instead of being
apartments or stores or whatever, would be open.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On 11/7/2012 4:49 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 6, 7:20 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:27:48 -0800 (PST), harry









wrote:
On Nov 6, 11:42 am, Han wrote:
harry wrote :

On Nov 6, 12:49 am, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:20:38 -0800, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:55:54 -0500, wrote:

If they actually follow the FEMA rules, all of the Jersey shore
houses will be built on pilings when they put them back. If Jersey
is like NOLA they will allow them to ignore the law, they will
build back at grade and we will buy them new houses ,... again...
when the next storm comes.

Even houses on pilings didn't withstand the storm in many cases.
How
tall do you make the pilings? And how well do you crossbrace them?

... The best idea I've read about years ago was to use 12" steel
I-beam for the pilings, welded cross members with a flat deck.

Steel and salt water don't go all that well together.

If the house (single story) blows off the pilings, it is easy build
back upon. The I-beams are better than wood pilings.

Don't believe it.

Ships are made out of steel. Any immersion is only brief.

Come on harry, you're not that dense, are you? These houses are built
on/in dunes. It always blows salt around there. Good thick steel will
last a while, but sitting in the soil in salt water year round can't be
good for them.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

There are steel framed buildings in New York are there not?
There are steel piers in the UK more than a hundred years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Piers_Society
Here is an iron and steel building right by the sea in the UK more
than 100 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackpool_tower
With only paint protection.

They get painted every year. Most homeowners are not going to do that.
We have plenty of steel bridges but they are government boondoggles
that employ hundreds of maintenance people ... and they still fall
down now and then.
In the sub tropics the rust problem is a whole lot worse.
Heat speeds up the reaction

Aside from that, American houses are ****. Steel would easily outlast
them.

It depends on where you are talking about. If you are building under
the current coastal code, you end up with a very sturdy house.

Steel structures here don't get painted every year. The underwater
parts never on piers etc.
There are paint systems now that are good for thirty years in arduous
conditions, more in non arduous conditions.


Heck, the government always comes along and bans the good stuff because
it harms the endangered Three Toed Barking Sea Snail. I seem to remember
an anti-fouling paint that worked very well but was outlawed because it
worked too well killing anything that tried to attach itself to steel
boat hulls and other underwater steel structures. O_o

TDD

On 11/7/2012 4:52 AM, harry wrote:
On Nov 7, 2:28 am, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:37:58 -0800 (PST), harry


****trim excess****


You use steel/concrete piles that are driven/bored in maybe twenty or
thirty feet.
Piles have been in use for two thousand years,


Mankind has has been plagued by piles since the dawn of time. ^_^

TDD

Till Sandy came along, and rectum.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas"
wrote in message ...

Piles have been in use for two thousand years,


Mankind has has been plagued by piles since the dawn of time. ^_^

TDD

wrote in
:

On 06 Nov 2012 11:08:58 GMT, Han wrote:

PSEG did a bit of tree trimming after Irene and the freak
snowstorm, but you can't trim against some things, such as 3 ft
diameter oaks toppling over.

That is when you have to decide whether you want the tree or what it
will fall on

I don't know whether apparently healthy trees are in reality sick, or
weakened from the droughts and really wet periods that have alternated
here in the last few years. So this oak, laying on the ground didn't
look sick to me, but the root system looked rather small. Some people
have said that when a tree is healthy and in full leaf, you shouldn't
really be able to see sky from below it. The tree between my home and
the street (with branches overhanging the wiring) looks like it has half
the leaves it should have to me, but the expensive tree guy said it was
probably OK, since it has been there with 1/3 to 1/2 its root system
under concrete and asphalt since 1929. Oops that looks really old for a
pin oak ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote in
:

On 08 Nov 2012 01:02:16 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
m:

On 06 Nov 2012 11:08:58 GMT, Han wrote:

PSEG did a bit of tree trimming after Irene and the freak
snowstorm, but you can't trim against some things, such as 3 ft
diameter oaks toppling over.

That is when you have to decide whether you want the tree or what it
will fall on

I don't know whether apparently healthy trees are in reality sick, or
weakened from the droughts and really wet periods that have alternated
here in the last few years. So this oak, laying on the ground didn't
look sick to me, but the root system looked rather small. Some people
have said that when a tree is healthy and in full leaf, you shouldn't
really be able to see sky from below it. The tree between my home and
the street (with branches overhanging the wiring) looks like it has
half the leaves it should have to me, but the expensive tree guy said
it was probably OK, since it has been there with 1/3 to 1/2 its root
system under concrete and asphalt since 1929. Oops that looks really
old for a pin oak ...

FPL would never let a tree grow over a power line. They can't even be
close

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a tree,
such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition, it costs a
****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote in
:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition, it
costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that same
tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the primary
that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Just to clarify - the tree would in all likelihood only take out the
wires from the pole to my house.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article ,
wrote:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a tree,
such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition, it costs a
****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that same
tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the primary
that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Sure, you end up with the Long Island perspective: Nature is in the way.
Dynamite it, bulldoze it, and pave it over. It's just too bad we haven't
found a way to drain those pesky oceans.

I suppose you could live in a house made of 1/2" steel plate and no
windows if you're unwilling to live with both the risks and rewards of
the natural world.

I'd not choose to live without trees outside the window, and I'd not go
sniveling if that choice bit me in the ass someday. YMMV.

"You may not know this, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse than
dying." (Open Range)

Smitty Two wrote in
:

In article ,
wrote:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition,
it costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that same
tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the primary
that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Sure, you end up with the Long Island perspective: Nature is in the
way. Dynamite it, bulldoze it, and pave it over. It's just too bad we
haven't found a way to drain those pesky oceans.

I suppose you could live in a house made of 1/2" steel plate and no
windows if you're unwilling to live with both the risks and rewards of
the natural world.

I'd not choose to live without trees outside the window, and I'd not
go sniveling if that choice bit me in the ass someday. YMMV.

"You may not know this, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse
than dying." (Open Range)

While Congress still has to relearn it, life is a succession of
compromises. For the moment I am unwilling to remove that tree precisely
because I like the shade. But if I get any inkling that it is weakened
or sick, it'll go fast.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
:

On 08 Nov 2012 01:02:16 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
:

On 06 Nov 2012 11:08:58 GMT, Han wrote:

PSEG did a bit of tree trimming after Irene and the freak
snowstorm, but you can't trim against some things, such as 3 ft
diameter oaks toppling over.

That is when you have to decide whether you want the tree or what it
will fall on

I don't know whether apparently healthy trees are in reality sick, or
weakened from the droughts and really wet periods that have alternated
here in the last few years. So this oak, laying on the ground didn't
look sick to me, but the root system looked rather small. Some people
have said that when a tree is healthy and in full leaf, you shouldn't
really be able to see sky from below it. The tree between my home and
the street (with branches overhanging the wiring) looks like it has
half the leaves it should have to me, but the expensive tree guy said
it was probably OK, since it has been there with 1/3 to 1/2 its root
system under concrete and asphalt since 1929. Oops that looks really
old for a pin oak ...

FPL would never let a tree grow over a power line. They can't even be
close

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a tree,
such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition, it costs a
****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.
We removed the 120+ foot tall oak from beside my little brothers
house at Wasauga Beach a few years ago for the grand sum of $6 worth
of gas for the chainsaw. 4 brothers and father put in about 5 hours of
hard work - and between a few brothers and neighbours the vast
majority of the wood dissapeared virtually overnight - at no cost at
all.

Add about $100 to repair roof where a small branch hit and punched a
hole - but it needed a roof anyway.

On 08 Nov 2012 16:12:05 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition, it
costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that same
tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the primary
that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Just to clarify - the tree would in all likelihood only take out the
wires from the pole to my house.
Which could short and take out the line fuse (if so equipped) or the
transformer - an possibly cause a "domino effect" failure.

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:59:29 -0500, wrote:

On 08 Nov 2012 18:22:42 GMT, Han wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in
:

In article ,
wrote:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition,
it costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that same
tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the primary
that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Sure, you end up with the Long Island perspective: Nature is in the
way. Dynamite it, bulldoze it, and pave it over. It's just too bad we
haven't found a way to drain those pesky oceans.

I suppose you could live in a house made of 1/2" steel plate and no
windows if you're unwilling to live with both the risks and rewards of
the natural world.

I'd not choose to live without trees outside the window, and I'd not
go sniveling if that choice bit me in the ass someday. YMMV.

"You may not know this, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse
than dying." (Open Range)

While Congress still has to relearn it, life is a succession of
compromises. For the moment I am unwilling to remove that tree precisely
because I like the shade. But if I get any inkling that it is weakened
or sick, it'll go fast.

I have a tree like that too, my "shade tree" over the driveway. I
always wanted one for working on my car. If it fell it would only hit
the garage but I still keep the big limbs trimmed back
Thankfully all of my services are underground

wrote in
:

On 08 Nov 2012 16:12:05 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
m:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition,
it costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that same
tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the primary
that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Just to clarify - the tree would in all likelihood only take out the
wires from the pole to my house.
Which could short and take out the line fuse (if so equipped) or the
transformer - an possibly cause a "domino effect" failure.

I will have to pay Bartlett Tree Service to tell me how healthy the tree
is on a regular basis. This past summer they told me it was fine.

These pin oak (or similar) trees around here date from around 1929, when
this neighborhood was developed. We are now a national historic landmark
(http://radburn.org, wikipedia). Most trees here are around 80 years
old, and getting old age diseases. Some may at times not have been
pruned properly. I was told (I am not an arborist) that it is a no no to
cut off the suckers that grow straight up from the big horizontal
branches of these oaks. Must have been done to the branch that came down
on a calm day, taking out a light pole, since it showed a nice area of
rot going down through this big horizontal branch that broke off. We are
into a program of tree replacement ...

The question is indeed, where is the balance between keeping shade trees
and protecting power lines???

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote in
:

On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 19:59:29 -0500, wrote:

On 08 Nov 2012 18:22:42 GMT, Han wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in
:

In article ,
wrote:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't
anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing
a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In
addition, it costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and
hauled away.

I suppose the question is how much does it cost to remove that
same tree from your living room.
How many people will be impacted by that tree taking out the
primary that supplies 4 or 5 blocks?
Once you experience those things a few times you get a better
perspective about trees.

Sure, you end up with the Long Island perspective: Nature is in the
way. Dynamite it, bulldoze it, and pave it over. It's just too bad
we haven't found a way to drain those pesky oceans.

I suppose you could live in a house made of 1/2" steel plate and no
windows if you're unwilling to live with both the risks and rewards
of the natural world.

I'd not choose to live without trees outside the window, and I'd
not go sniveling if that choice bit me in the ass someday. YMMV.

"You may not know this, but there's things that gnaw at a man worse
than dying." (Open Range)

While Congress still has to relearn it, life is a succession of
compromises. For the moment I am unwilling to remove that tree
precisely because I like the shade. But if I get any inkling that it
is weakened or sick, it'll go fast.

I have a tree like that too, my "shade tree" over the driveway. I
always wanted one for working on my car. If it fell it would only hit
the garage but I still keep the big limbs trimmed back
Thankfully all of my services are underground

Yeah, I wish that were the case here ... I have no idea what it would
cost. Some of the soil here is very thin, with rock (and underground
water!) very near the surface. Many homes need sump pumps (mine
doesn't). With the 80 year-old sewers, gas- and water-lines in place,
getting electric underground would probably be a rather big job.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote in
:

On 08 Nov 2012 12:16:00 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
m:

On 08 Nov 2012 01:02:16 GMT, Han wrote:

wrote in
m:

On 06 Nov 2012 11:08:58 GMT, Han wrote:

PSEG did a bit of tree trimming after Irene and the freak
snowstorm, but you can't trim against some things, such as 3 ft
diameter oaks toppling over.

That is when you have to decide whether you want the tree or what
it will fall on

I don't know whether apparently healthy trees are in reality sick,
or weakened from the droughts and really wet periods that have
alternated here in the last few years. So this oak, laying on the
ground didn't look sick to me, but the root system looked rather
small. Some people have said that when a tree is healthy and in
full leaf, you shouldn't really be able to see sky from below it.
The tree between my home and the street (with branches overhanging
the wiring) looks like it has half the leaves it should have to me,
but the expensive tree guy said it was probably OK, since it has
been there with 1/3 to 1/2 its root system under concrete and
asphalt since 1929. Oops that looks really old for a pin oak ...

FPL would never let a tree grow over a power line. They can't even
be close

Around here people really love the trees. Until they don't anymore.
Then, there are regulations that would prevent one from removing a
tree, such as the need to get a town permit to do so. In addition, it
costs a ****load of money to get a tree cut down and hauled away.
We removed the 120+ foot tall oak from beside my little brothers
house at Wasauga Beach a few years ago for the grand sum of $6 worth
of gas for the chainsaw. 4 brothers and father put in about 5 hours of
hard work - and between a few brothers and neighbours the vast
majority of the wood dissapeared virtually overnight - at no cost at
all.

Add about $100 to repair roof where a small branch hit and punched a
hole - but it needed a roof anyway.

I'm not that limber anymore. Did those things 30 years ago, including a
big old cherry tree, the kind you hang a swing from. Remember standing on
the corner of the roof to cut down a fairly young pine. I could easily
reach the trunk standing there on the roof.

Now I don't do this anymore, and my offspring is great, but not like that
....

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article ,
Han wrote:

wrote in
:


Thankfully all of my services are underground

Yeah, I wish that were the case here ... I have no idea what it would
cost. Some of the soil here is very thin, with rock (and underground
water!) very near the surface. Many homes need sump pumps (mine
doesn't). With the 80 year-old sewers, gas- and water-lines in place,
getting electric underground would probably be a rather big job.

I think you can attach one leg to the gas line and one leg to the water
line, and bring the power in that way.

Smitty Two wrote in news:notpublicinfo-
:

In article ,
Han wrote:

wrote in
:


Thankfully all of my services are underground

Yeah, I wish that were the case here ... I have no idea what it would
cost. Some of the soil here is very thin, with rock (and underground
water!) very near the surface. Many homes need sump pumps (mine
doesn't). With the 80 year-old sewers, gas- and water-lines in place,
getting electric underground would probably be a rather big job.

I think you can attach one leg to the gas line and one leg to the water
line, and bring the power in that way.

Too much gas in the sewer line ... Wouldn't work, especially when the
soil is moist and conducive.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid