Martin C. wrote:
I need advice on this heat pump motor:
http://picturepush.com/public/7964530

I bought a house which apparently has a rather noisy
heat-recirculation motor, which kicks in more frequently than we'd
like, and which is situated just below living quarters ... hence the
noise is rather obnoxious to the occupants.
http://picturepush.com/public/7964534

The noise doesn't sound like a high-pitched bad-bearing noise ...
just a loud-motor humming noise. But it kicks on a lot (many times a
day) so it's irksome.

Having never experienced a recirculating heat motor before, why do I
need it anyway? I presume it is what gives me the nearly instant hot
water in all faucets and shower heads in the house. Anything else?

I wonder aloud if I'd rather have a few minutes of cold water instead
of incessant noise from this motor???

But, not knowing anything about the operation, I'm afraid to bypass
it or even turn it off until/unless I talk to someone who understands
these things.

Particularly, if I were to bypass it, how would I do that most easily
for test purposes? If I cut the power to it, for example, would
anything burn out elsewhere? Can I just re-pipe around it?

For those of you with these big black motors in your hot-water line
near your hot-water heater, are yours as noisy as mine? Is there a
quiet variety for example? Or are they all this noisy?

What's the best way to turn it off temporarily to test out whether the
bliss of silence is better than a few minutes of cold water in the
morning?

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above it.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor by wrapping soft foam around it and
strapping loosely around that, or suspending it from above with rubber straps to
isolate it from the structure, so it doesn't vibrate the wall, amplifying the
noise.

On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the 'mounting'
that is probably shaking the walls which is probably what's 'amplifying'
the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder in the living quarters
above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

Martin C. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above
it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the
'mounting' that is probably shaking the walls which is probably
what's 'amplifying' the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder
in the living quarters above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

The pump should either pump hot water out of the top of the tank, through the
loop, and back to the bottom of the tank, or it "sucks" water through the loop
from the top of the tank, back through the return line and pumps it back into
the bottom of the tank. There should be an arrow on the pump body indicating the
direction of flow.

Merely turning the pump off can have the risk that legionella or other bugs may
grow in the stagnant pipes. Better to either put it on a timer, or do like I
did, and install low voltage push buttons near the sinks/showers which activate
a time delay relay to turn the pump on for a minute or so when you will be
wanting hot water. Push the button when you enter the bathroom, and the water is
hot by the time you need the sink. This, of course would involve runnung wires,
although you could do it with X10 powerline control components, or using RF
remote controls.

Bob F wrote:
Martin C. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above
it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the
'mounting' that is probably shaking the walls which is probably
what's 'amplifying' the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder
in the living quarters above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

The pump should either pump hot water out of the top of the tank,
through the loop, and back to the bottom of the tank, or it "sucks"
water through the loop from the top of the tank, back through the
return line and pumps it back into the bottom of the tank. There
should be an arrow on the pump body indicating the direction of flow.

Trader4 was right that the water returning from the loop should go into the cold
water return at the top of the tank, although it could tap into a "T" at the
drain valve at the bottom of the tank.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:00:12 -0700, Bob F wrote:

There should be an arrow on the pump body indicating
the direction of flow.

You were right! (I was totally wrong about the direction!)

Following your suggestion ... I removed the pump, which was simply metal
banded to a metal shelf which itself was simply bolted directly to the
wall.

Here is a picture of the water flow arrows on the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970322

That means, the water must be flowing INTO the ho****er tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970326

And, that means, the water must be flowing OUT of the bathrooms:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970324

Before I go further ... may I ask:

Q: Are the direction arrows (finally) correct in the three pictures above?

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:04:45 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Trader4 was right that the water returning from the loop should go into
the cold water return at the top of the tank, although it could tap into
a "T" at the drain valve at the bottom of the tank.

Here is a picture of where the hot water taps INTO the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970412

Here is a picture of the hot water flow FROM the two upstairs bathrooms:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970410


Notice the tank is actually the second in a series of two tanks hooked up
in parallel. It appears cold water arrives from outside into the right-
most tank, which heats it up and then sends ALL the water to the left-
most tank which again heats it up (I guess).

Q: Do I have enough information now to describe how the system works yet?

Martin C. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:04:45 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Trader4 was right that the water returning from the loop should go
into the cold water return at the top of the tank, although it could
tap into a "T" at the drain valve at the bottom of the tank.

Here is a picture of where the hot water taps INTO the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970412

That would be where the loop warming water RETURNS to the tank.

Here is a picture of the hot water flow FROM the two upstairs
bathrooms: http://picturepush.com/public/7970410


Notice the tank is actually the second in a series of two tanks
hooked up in parallel. It appears cold water arrives from outside
into the right- most tank, which heats it up and then sends ALL the
water to the left- most tank which again heats it up (I guess).

Q: Do I have enough information now to describe how the system works
yet?

It would seem so. The two valves on the two return lines would be used to adjust
the relative flow through the two pipes. If you reduce the time the pump runs,
you might want to check that those valves are as open as they can be to still
get hot water to both sinks in a reasonable time. One may need to be closed more
to increase the water flow in the other pipe.

Your direction arrows (from the other post) do seem right. The normal water
plumbing goes to each bath. A return pipe from each bath allows the pump to draw
hot water to the baths and back to the tank.

Is the pump quieter just hanging like that?

Do you have a giant jacuzzi tub? If not, you might try shutting down the first
tank in the series, which should save you significant heating gas. You could
always turn it back on if you have a lot of guests, but unless you have a huge
family, you may not really need it.

Is there a check valve somewhere in the return lines? If not, you could have
funny water temps at faucets in some conditions due to backflow through the
return pipes.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 15:57:31 +0000, Martin C. wrote:

Q: Are the direction arrows (finally) correct?

Thanks for validating the direction of the water.
It turned out to be the opposite of what I had originally thought.

To summarize, this shows the direction of water at the ceiling pipes:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970324

That thermoswitch apparently senses temperature of stagnant water in only
one set of bathrooms upstairs (not the other).

This shows the direction of water through the pump itself:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970322

Therefore, this must be the flow direction in the pipes:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970410

With the result that stagnant water ends up back in the water tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970326

The whole system can be disabled in a variety of ways as there are at
least three water valves and an electrical thermoswitch and 120V power.

At the moment, it's disabled simply by unplugging the 120v power until I
figure out how best to mount the pump to the wall shelf with isolation.

My friend,
I think your circulator motor could be put on some kind of padded
support. No sense strapping it directly to the wall.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Martin C." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the 'mounting'
that is probably shaking the walls which is probably what's 'amplifying'
the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder in the living quarters
above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 07:55:23 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

your circulator motor could be put on some kind of padded
support. No sense strapping it directly to the wall.

I agree. Right now it's hanging by the plumbing, but I need to somehow
hang it from the ceiling or pad it to the wall.

You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief

I do not understand this statement as I am unfamiliar with "hebe-ub".

You're not missing much. Move along.....

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Martin C." wrote in message
...

You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief

I do not understand this statement as I am unfamiliar with "hebe-ub".

Stormin Mormon wrote:
You're not missing much. Move along.....

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Martin C." wrote in message
...

You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief

I do not understand this statement as I am unfamiliar with "hebe-ub".

Otherwise known as Heybub. IIRC, he argues strongly against the merits of recirc
systems. But he probably hasn't had one.

On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 11:00:31 -0700, Bob F wrote:

he argues strongly against the merits of recirc systems

Oh. OK. Thanks for the insight.

I myself don't have an opinion either way on the recirculating hot-water
systems. In fact, I knew absolutely nothing about them except the one in
the house I bought made way too much noise.

Now I realize the noise was purely due to a lousy installation, and, in
particular, an undamped steel-on-steel-on-wood-frame mounting.

Interestingly, with the noise of the pump eliminated ... now the
complaint is the bubbling water from the two large hot water heaters ...
sigh ...

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 04:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Martin C."
wrote:


Interestingly, with the noise of the pump eliminated ... now the
complaint is the bubbling water from the two large hot water heaters ...
sigh ...

Two water heaters? You may want to determine if you really need two
of them.

Just moving into a new house, the last thing you want it to make a big
renovation. Fact is, you may be able to save a bundle of money in
energy costs by replacing old, inefficient equipment. Especially if
you heat with oil. Certainly worth considering if you are in a cold
climate. My system pays for itself just out of oil savings.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
My friend,
I think your circulator motor could be put on some kind of padded
support. No sense strapping it directly to the wall.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.


Once again, you mention me. What a life devoid of joy you must have. Of
course that is to be expected inasmuch as, I'll wager, everyone in your
community shuns you. Oh there are exceptions, I'm sure. Your church where
everyone is (openly) welcomed, a merchant who wants your money and will put
up with your anti-social behavior just long enough. Maybe some others.

I sure as hell won't put up with you!

You picked this fight and you are way outmatched.

I fully expect other posters to start picking sides; we'll see how the vote
turns out.

Happy Easter, skell.

On Apr 8, 1:03*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 04:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Martin C."

wrote:

Interestingly, with the noise of the pump eliminated ... now the
complaint is the bubbling water from the two large hot water heaters ...
sigh ...

Bubbling noises from the water heaters? That doesn't
sound right.....



Two water heaters? *You may want to determine if you really need two
of them.

I was thinking that too. If the demand isn't that high, I'd
shut one off. Could try doing that and seeing if there is
still enough hot water. If so, he's save on the standby
losses. A friend of mine bought a house that has two
water heaters. They were set up in parallel. I suggested
he try shutting one off. The only issue is that the house
also has a jacuzzi type tub. That takes all the hot water
to just get it to an acceptable level and is the reason for
the second water heater.



Just moving into a new house, the last thing you want it to make a big
renovation. Fact is, you may be able to save a bundle of money in
energy costs by replacing old, inefficient equipment. Especially if
you heat with oil. *Certainly worth considering if you are in a cold
climate. *My system pays for itself just out of oil savings.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 05:43:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:



A friend of mine bought a house that has two
water heaters. They were set up in parallel. I suggested
he try shutting one off. The only issue is that the house
also has a jacuzzi type tub. That takes all the hot water
to just get it to an acceptable level and is the reason for
the second water heater.


I can see the need filling that tub, but I have to wonder how often
that tub is really used and how much does it cost to keep that much
water on standby.

About 20 years ago, my wife and I stayed at a B&B that had one. Tried
it, was not impressed beyond that one time.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 05:43:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 8, 1:03*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 04:15:08 +0000 (UTC), "Martin C."

wrote:

Interestingly, with the noise of the pump eliminated ... now the
complaint is the bubbling water from the two large hot water heaters ...
sigh ...

Bubbling noises from the water heaters? That doesn't
sound right.....

It's common if there is a bunch of crud in the bottom. The heater should be
flushed, if it's not too late.

Two water heaters? *You may want to determine if you really need two
of them.

I was thinking that too. If the demand isn't that high, I'd
shut one off. Could try doing that and seeing if there is
still enough hot water. If so, he's save on the standby
losses. A friend of mine bought a house that has two
water heaters. They were set up in parallel. I suggested
he try shutting one off. The only issue is that the house
also has a jacuzzi type tub. That takes all the hot water
to just get it to an acceptable level and is the reason for
the second water heater.

We're also getting ready to move into a new house (I'll probably move in a
couple of weeks and my wife will follow in July, or so). The WH is in the
garage, at the opposite end of the house from the master (~70'). I was
thinking about putting a small water heater, in series, nearer the bathrooms
and kitchen.

Just moving into a new house, the last thing you want it to make a big
renovation. Fact is, you may be able to save a bundle of money in
energy costs by replacing old, inefficient equipment. Especially if
you heat with oil. *Certainly worth considering if you are in a cold
climate. *My system pays for itself just out of oil savings.

On Apr 8, 9:51*am, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 05:43:44 -0700 (PDT), "

wrote:
A friend of mine bought a house that has two
water heaters. *They were set up in parallel. *I suggested
he try shutting one off. * The only issue is that the house
also has a jacuzzi type tub. *That takes all the hot water
to just get it to an acceptable level and is the reason for
the second water heater.

I can see the need filling that tub, but I have to wonder how often
that tub is really used and how much does it cost to keep that much
water on standby.

About 20 years ago, my wife and I stayed at a B&B that had one. *Tried
it, was not impressed beyond that one time.

I agree. I've had one for 17 years and used it once. I have a spa/
hot tub
outside that is permanently full. I keep it heated to about 60 and
raise it a few hours before I'm going to use it. Doesn't appear to
cost
very much to maintain that way, it's a whole lot better than
the small bathroom ones and it's a nice place to smoke a cigar,
have a few beers on a snowy night.

On the other hand, the running costs for that extra water
heater are probably small. In summer by gas bill is less
than $20 and you would think most of that is usage, not
standby losses.

Here's an interesting question. If you had a second water
heater in parallel that was 6 years old and not being used, would
you turn it off but leave it full. Or drain it? Any guess as to
which would result in longer life so that it could then be
used when the active one fails?

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 01:03:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Two water heaters?
You may want to determine if you really need two of them.

I don't know if two are needed, especially as they're hooked up in
parallel. When the teens take a shower, they run out of hot water - but
they're in the bathroom for an hour (I kid you not).

UPDATE ...

One thing everyone has noticed is that the hot water 'seems' hotter now
with the recirculation pump unplugged. I can't fathom how that can be but
that's the universal opinion (I didn't make any measurements, nor
adjustments. All I did was unplug the recirculation pump).

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:43:44 -0700, wrote:
Bubbling noises from the water heaters?
That doesn't sound right.....

It is clearly from the heaters.
Are they not supposed to bubble?

If the demand isn't that high, I'd shut one off.

I should try that. I think the only one who would 'miss' the 100 gallons
of hot water is the teen miss herself!

If so, he's save on the standby losses.

Would the tank 'go bad' just sitting there though?

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:59:15 -0700, wrote:

Here's an interesting question. If you had a second water heater in
parallel that was 6 years old and not being used, would you turn it off
but leave it full. Or drain it? Any guess as to which would result in
longer life so that it could then be used when the active one fails?

I was wondering something similar.

I've had things turned off that never went back on again (due to crud, I
guess). Once I left a perfectly well running car outside for six months,
and it was a bear to get it going again.

I realize the dynamics are different ... but do people actually turn off
hot water heaters for long periods of time (like years) and then turn
them back on again.

UPDATE:

I'm leaving the hot water recirculation pump off for now, and,
interestingly, not only is it quiet but more than one person commented
the water in the shower appears to be HOTTER!

I don't see how that can be, so, maybe it's due to something else. But
the good news is the fifteen second wait for the water to warm up now
isn't at all a problem. Most of the time the water is warm right away
anyway, instead of blazingly hot right away as it was before.

The main thing I'm thinking about now, since I'm likely to permanently
leave the pump unpowered, is whether I should leave the three valves in
the closed or open position (the two twist valves won't turn by hand).

Advice?

On Apr 8, 2:15*pm, "Martin C."
wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:43:44 -0700, wrote:
Bubbling noises from the water heaters?
That doesn't sound right.....

It is clearly from the heaters.
Are they not supposed to bubble?

If the demand isn't that high, I'd shut one off.

I should try that. I think the only one who would 'miss' the 100 gallons
of hot water is the teen miss herself!

If so, he's save on the standby losses.

Would the tank 'go bad' just sitting there though?

I would think it should last substantially longer with the heat
turned off. Many of the failure mechanisms are related to the
heating process. Now if you have a dual system and
turn one off, whether leaving it full of water, or leaving
it with water flowing through it, or emptying it will
preserve it longer, I don't know.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2012 18:17:11 +0000 (UTC), "Martin C."
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:59:15 -0700, wrote:

Here's an interesting question. If you had a second water heater in
parallel that was 6 years old and not being used, would you turn it off
but leave it full. Or drain it? Any guess as to which would result in
longer life so that it could then be used when the active one fails?

I was wondering something similar.

I've had things turned off that never went back on again (due to crud, I
guess). Once I left a perfectly well running car outside for six months,
and it was a bear to get it going again.

I realize the dynamics are different ... but do people actually turn off
hot water heaters for long periods of time (like years) and then turn
them back on again.
Not years, perhaps, but the water heater gets shut down at friend's
cottage every time they leave - and sometimes it is off for 8 months
or more. It is electric.

My brother's trailer has propane, and it is also shut down any time
he's not there. That used to sometimes be 6 months, but he's there a
lot more now.

Martin C. wrote:
UPDATE:

I'm leaving the hot water recirculation pump off for now, and,
interestingly, not only is it quiet but more than one person commented
the water in the shower appears to be HOTTER!

I don't see how that can be, so, maybe it's due to something else. But
the good news is the fifteen second wait for the water to warm up now
isn't at all a problem. Most of the time the water is warm right away
anyway, instead of blazingly hot right away as it was before.

The main thing I'm thinking about now, since I'm likely to permanently
leave the pump unpowered, is whether I should leave the three valves
in the closed or open position (the two twist valves won't turn by
hand).

Advice?

http://www.google.com/search?rls=com...s&spell=1&sa=X

Putting a timer on it so it runs once a day could limit the risk of legionnaires
disease.

Martin C. wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:59:15 -0700, wrote:

Here's an interesting question. If you had a second water heater in
parallel that was 6 years old and not being used, would you turn it
off but leave it full. Or drain it? Any guess as to which would
result in longer life so that it could then be used when the active
one fails?

I was wondering something similar.

I've had things turned off that never went back on again (due to
crud, I guess). Once I left a perfectly well running car outside for
six months, and it was a bear to get it going again.

I realize the dynamics are different ... but do people actually turn
off hot water heaters for long periods of time (like years) and then
turn them back on again.

It'll last longer turned off than turned on. Lower heat, slower chemical
processes like rust. I can see no negatives to turning off the 1st head of the
pair if you still have anough hot water. It'll cut standby losses in half. Do
you have a big jacuzzi? Do you use it?

Martin C. wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:43:44 -0700, wrote:
Bubbling noises from the water heaters?
That doesn't sound right.....

It is clearly from the heaters.
Are they not supposed to bubble?

What do you mean bubbles? In the water? Noise?



If the demand isn't that high, I'd shut one off.

I should try that. I think the only one who would 'miss' the 100
gallons of hot water is the teen miss herself!

If so, he's save on the standby losses.

Would the tank 'go bad' just sitting there though?

Not as fast as it will if heated. No need to re-plumb to empty it.

Martin C. wrote:
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 01:03:06 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Two water heaters?
You may want to determine if you really need two of them.

I don't know if two are needed, especially as they're hooked up in
parallel. When the teens take a shower, they run out of hot water -
but they're in the bathroom for an hour (I kid you not).

UPDATE ...

One thing everyone has noticed is that the hot water 'seems' hotter
now with the recirculation pump unplugged. I can't fathom how that
can be but that's the universal opinion (I didn't make any
measurements, nor adjustments. All I did was unplug the recirculation
pump).

The recirc pump probably stirs the water in the tank, reducing the temp at the
top, and increasing the heat at the bottom. I imagine it would show up more the
longer the tank is used in a short period.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:05:26 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Do you have a big jacuzzi? Do you use it?
Yes. Nope.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:10:49 -0700, Bob F wrote:

The recirc pump probably stirs the water in the tank, reducing the temp
at the top, and increasing the heat at the bottom. I imagine it would
show up more the longer the tank is used in a short period.

That's helpful insight!

It must be doing that, because all agree that the water appears hotter
(at least at first) with the recirculation pump turned off.

This morning, I tested the shower, and it took 8 seconds (one onethousand,
two one thousand, etc.) for it to get hot enough to hurt.

So, the recirc pump, in essence only subtracted 8 seconds from the time-
to-hot-water point, but, it also cooled that hot water, and made a whole
lott'a vibratory noise (due to the lousy mounting).

I consider it a win:win with the darn thing unplugged.

I'm just not sure whether to leave the three valves in the open or closed
positions.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 16:59:36 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Putting a timer on it so it runs once a day could limit the risk of
legionnaires disease

Easily enough done.

That means:
a) I buy a cheap timer & leave the three valves in the open position
b) I have the timer go on, once a day (probably at 5am before anyone
awakes).
c) It goes on for, say, a half hour or an hour (or whatever).
d) That will make the recirc pump run for that half hour (or as long as
it takes based on its thermostat settings).

The bacteria don't get a nice home to live in.

On Apr 9, 7:59*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Martin C. wrote:
UPDATE:

I'm leaving the hot water recirculation pump off for now, and,
interestingly, not only is it quiet but more than one person commented
the water in the shower appears to be HOTTER!

I don't see how that can be, so, maybe it's due to something else. But
the good news is the fifteen second wait for the water to warm up now
isn't at all a problem. Most of the time the water is warm right away
anyway, instead of blazingly hot right away as it was before.

The main thing I'm thinking about now, since I'm likely to permanently
leave the pump unpowered, is whether I should leave the three valves
in the closed or open position (the two twist valves won't turn by
hand).

Advice?

http://www.google.com/search?rls=com...oe=UTF-8&start....

Putting a timer on it so it runs once a day could limit the risk of legionnaires
disease.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Legionnaires disease? Say what? If a circulation system was
necessary to prevent legionnaires disease, hundreds of millions
of home around the world would be having incidences of the
disease. Only a tiny percentage of domestic hot water
systems have any circulation system. The only advice I've
heard in that regard is that the TANK should be heated to
min of 130F.

wrote:
On Apr 9, 7:59 pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Martin C. wrote:
UPDATE:

I'm leaving the hot water recirculation pump off for now, and,
interestingly, not only is it quiet but more than one person
commented the water in the shower appears to be HOTTER!

I don't see how that can be, so, maybe it's due to something else.
But the good news is the fifteen second wait for the water to warm
up now isn't at all a problem. Most of the time the water is warm
right away anyway, instead of blazingly hot right away as it was
before.

The main thing I'm thinking about now, since I'm likely to
permanently leave the pump unpowered, is whether I should leave the
three valves in the closed or open position (the two twist valves
won't turn by hand).

Advice?

http://www.google.com/search?rls=com...oe=UTF-8&start...

Putting a timer on it so it runs once a day could limit the risk of
legionnaires disease.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Legionnaires disease? Say what? If a circulation system was
necessary to prevent legionnaires disease, hundreds of millions
of home around the world would be having incidences of the
disease. Only a tiny percentage of domestic hot water
systems have any circulation system. The only advice I've
heard in that regard is that the TANK should be heated to
min of 130F.

I'm talking about a not circulating circulation system.

Martin C. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 17:10:49 -0700, Bob F wrote:

The recirc pump probably stirs the water in the tank, reducing the
temp at the top, and increasing the heat at the bottom. I imagine it
would show up more the longer the tank is used in a short period.

That's helpful insight!

It must be doing that, because all agree that the water appears hotter
(at least at first) with the recirculation pump turned off.

This morning, I tested the shower, and it took 8 seconds (one
onethousand, two one thousand, etc.) for it to get hot enough to hurt.

So, the recirc pump, in essence only subtracted 8 seconds from the
time- to-hot-water point, but, it also cooled that hot water, and
made a whole lott'a vibratory noise (due to the lousy mounting).

I consider it a win:win with the darn thing unplugged.

I'm just not sure whether to leave the three valves in the open or
closed positions.

If you really aren't going to run the pump at all, close the valves. A better
bet would be to add a time delay relay that would run the pump long enough to
get the hot water to the point of use. You can just push a button in the
bathroom, and have hot water there seconds later without any waste. That's the
way mine works.

A timer set to run when you get up in the morning would give you the advantage
of instant hot water once a day.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:33:54 -0700, Bob F wrote:

A timer set to run when you get up in the morning would give you the
advantage of instant hot water once a day.

I'm going to put the timer in, but not for the hot water.

It turns out the system actually seems to 'cool' the water (as explained
prior) because it mixes up the tank. That, of course, probably gives more
evenly heated water - but everyone has agreed the water appears hotter
(much hotter) simply by disconnecting the recirculation pump.

The reason I'll put the timer in place is to keep the legionella down.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 08:24:42 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Legionnaires disease? Say what? If a circulation system was necessary
to prevent legionnaires disease, hundreds of millions of home around
the world would be having incidences of the disease.

I'm talking about a not circulating circulation system.

I understand.

I will put the timer in, set to run once a day.

I don't know if the lung-loving legionella would/could grow in the pipes
when they're not circulating (I thought they like air conditioning
systems), but it seems like cheap insurance against them.

Especially as they can't be seen and I wouldn't have any way of
identifying the bacterium in the water supply.