Martin C. wrote:
I need advice on this heat pump motor:
http://picturepush.com/public/7964530

I bought a house which apparently has a rather noisy
heat-recirculation motor, which kicks in more frequently than we'd
like, and which is situated just below living quarters ... hence the
noise is rather obnoxious to the occupants.
http://picturepush.com/public/7964534

The noise doesn't sound like a high-pitched bad-bearing noise ...
just a loud-motor humming noise. But it kicks on a lot (many times a
day) so it's irksome.

Having never experienced a recirculating heat motor before, why do I
need it anyway? I presume it is what gives me the nearly instant hot
water in all faucets and shower heads in the house. Anything else?

I wonder aloud if I'd rather have a few minutes of cold water instead
of incessant noise from this motor???

But, not knowing anything about the operation, I'm afraid to bypass
it or even turn it off until/unless I talk to someone who understands
these things.

Particularly, if I were to bypass it, how would I do that most easily
for test purposes? If I cut the power to it, for example, would
anything burn out elsewhere? Can I just re-pipe around it?

For those of you with these big black motors in your hot-water line
near your hot-water heater, are yours as noisy as mine? Is there a
quiet variety for example? Or are they all this noisy?

What's the best way to turn it off temporarily to test out whether the
bliss of silence is better than a few minutes of cold water in the
morning?

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above it.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor by wrapping soft foam around it and
strapping loosely around that, or suspending it from above with rubber straps to
isolate it from the structure, so it doesn't vibrate the wall, amplifying the
noise.

On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the 'mounting'
that is probably shaking the walls which is probably what's 'amplifying'
the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder in the living quarters
above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

Martin C. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above
it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the
'mounting' that is probably shaking the walls which is probably
what's 'amplifying' the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder
in the living quarters above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

The pump should either pump hot water out of the top of the tank, through the
loop, and back to the bottom of the tank, or it "sucks" water through the loop
from the top of the tank, back through the return line and pumps it back into
the bottom of the tank. There should be an arrow on the pump body indicating the
direction of flow.

Merely turning the pump off can have the risk that legionella or other bugs may
grow in the stagnant pipes. Better to either put it on a timer, or do like I
did, and install low voltage push buttons near the sinks/showers which activate
a time delay relay to turn the pump on for a minute or so when you will be
wanting hot water. Push the button when you enter the bathroom, and the water is
hot by the time you need the sink. This, of course would involve runnung wires,
although you could do it with X10 powerline control components, or using RF
remote controls.

Bob F wrote:
Martin C. wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above
it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the
'mounting' that is probably shaking the walls which is probably
what's 'amplifying' the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder
in the living quarters above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

The pump should either pump hot water out of the top of the tank,
through the loop, and back to the bottom of the tank, or it "sucks"
water through the loop from the top of the tank, back through the
return line and pumps it back into the bottom of the tank. There
should be an arrow on the pump body indicating the direction of flow.

Trader4 was right that the water returning from the loop should go into the cold
water return at the top of the tank, although it could tap into a "T" at the
drain valve at the bottom of the tank.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:04:45 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Trader4 was right that the water returning from the loop should go into
the cold water return at the top of the tank, although it could tap into
a "T" at the drain valve at the bottom of the tank.

Here is a picture of where the hot water taps INTO the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970412

Here is a picture of the hot water flow FROM the two upstairs bathrooms:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970410


Notice the tank is actually the second in a series of two tanks hooked up
in parallel. It appears cold water arrives from outside into the right-
most tank, which heats it up and then sends ALL the water to the left-
most tank which again heats it up (I guess).

Q: Do I have enough information now to describe how the system works yet?

Martin C. wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:04:45 -0700, Bob F wrote:

Trader4 was right that the water returning from the loop should go
into the cold water return at the top of the tank, although it could
tap into a "T" at the drain valve at the bottom of the tank.

Here is a picture of where the hot water taps INTO the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970412

That would be where the loop warming water RETURNS to the tank.

Here is a picture of the hot water flow FROM the two upstairs
bathrooms: http://picturepush.com/public/7970410


Notice the tank is actually the second in a series of two tanks
hooked up in parallel. It appears cold water arrives from outside
into the right- most tank, which heats it up and then sends ALL the
water to the left- most tank which again heats it up (I guess).

Q: Do I have enough information now to describe how the system works
yet?

It would seem so. The two valves on the two return lines would be used to adjust
the relative flow through the two pipes. If you reduce the time the pump runs,
you might want to check that those valves are as open as they can be to still
get hot water to both sinks in a reasonable time. One may need to be closed more
to increase the water flow in the other pipe.

Your direction arrows (from the other post) do seem right. The normal water
plumbing goes to each bath. A return pipe from each bath allows the pump to draw
hot water to the baths and back to the tank.

Is the pump quieter just hanging like that?

Do you have a giant jacuzzi tub? If not, you might try shutting down the first
tank in the series, which should save you significant heating gas. You could
always turn it back on if you have a lot of guests, but unless you have a huge
family, you may not really need it.

Is there a check valve somewhere in the return lines? If not, you could have
funny water temps at faucets in some conditions due to backflow through the
return pipes.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 08:00:12 -0700, Bob F wrote:

There should be an arrow on the pump body indicating
the direction of flow.

You were right! (I was totally wrong about the direction!)

Following your suggestion ... I removed the pump, which was simply metal
banded to a metal shelf which itself was simply bolted directly to the
wall.

Here is a picture of the water flow arrows on the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970322

That means, the water must be flowing INTO the ho****er tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970326

And, that means, the water must be flowing OUT of the bathrooms:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970324

Before I go further ... may I ask:

Q: Are the direction arrows (finally) correct in the three pictures above?

On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 15:57:31 +0000, Martin C. wrote:

Q: Are the direction arrows (finally) correct?

Thanks for validating the direction of the water.
It turned out to be the opposite of what I had originally thought.

To summarize, this shows the direction of water at the ceiling pipes:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970324

That thermoswitch apparently senses temperature of stagnant water in only
one set of bathrooms upstairs (not the other).

This shows the direction of water through the pump itself:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970322

Therefore, this must be the flow direction in the pipes:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970410

With the result that stagnant water ends up back in the water tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7970326

The whole system can be disabled in a variety of ways as there are at
least three water valves and an electrical thermoswitch and 120V power.

At the moment, it's disabled simply by unplugging the 120v power until I
figure out how best to mount the pump to the wall shelf with isolation.

UPDATE:

I'm leaving the hot water recirculation pump off for now, and,
interestingly, not only is it quiet but more than one person commented
the water in the shower appears to be HOTTER!

I don't see how that can be, so, maybe it's due to something else. But
the good news is the fifteen second wait for the water to warm up now
isn't at all a problem. Most of the time the water is warm right away
anyway, instead of blazingly hot right away as it was before.

The main thing I'm thinking about now, since I'm likely to permanently
leave the pump unpowered, is whether I should leave the three valves in
the closed or open position (the two twist valves won't turn by hand).

Advice?

My friend,
I think your circulator motor could be put on some kind of padded
support. No sense strapping it directly to the wall.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Martin C." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 16:43:35 -0700, Bob F wrote:

You could disconnect the wire from the pump to that thermostat above it.

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad'
happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

Or, you could try remounting the pump motor

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the 'mounting'
that is probably shaking the walls which is probably what's 'amplifying'
the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder in the living quarters
above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966064
How pipes connect to the pump:
http://picturepush.com/public/7966063

On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 07:55:23 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

your circulator motor could be put on some kind of padded
support. No sense strapping it directly to the wall.

I agree. Right now it's hanging by the plumbing, but I need to somehow
hang it from the ceiling or pad it to the wall.

You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief

I do not understand this statement as I am unfamiliar with "hebe-ub".

You're not missing much. Move along.....

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Martin C." wrote in message
...

You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief

I do not understand this statement as I am unfamiliar with "hebe-ub".

Stormin Mormon wrote:
You're not missing much. Move along.....

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Martin C." wrote in message
...

You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief

I do not understand this statement as I am unfamiliar with "hebe-ub".

Otherwise known as Heybub. IIRC, he argues strongly against the merits of recirc
systems. But he probably hasn't had one.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
My friend,
I think your circulator motor could be put on some kind of padded
support. No sense strapping it directly to the wall.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.


Once again, you mention me. What a life devoid of joy you must have. Of
course that is to be expected inasmuch as, I'll wager, everyone in your
community shuns you. Oh there are exceptions, I'm sure. Your church where
everyone is (openly) welcomed, a merchant who wants your money and will put
up with your anti-social behavior just long enough. Maybe some others.

I sure as hell won't put up with you!

You picked this fight and you are way outmatched.

I fully expect other posters to start picking sides; we'll see how the vote
turns out.

Happy Easter, skell.