On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:16:03 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Your Indepenedence war was just so rich people didn't have to pay
taxes as I have frequently pointed out. Nothing to do with "freedom".

So what? I was talking about the SECOND War of Independence. In my part of
the country we call it the "recent unplesantness."

That was the War of Northern Aggression.

On Oct 10, 10:59*am, harry wrote:
On Oct 10, 1:35*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. *They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. *They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 10/10/11 03:31 pm, aemeijers wrote:

I go to the dentist for free. I have all my teeth. Have you?

You may not pay directly, but it certainly is not free.

NOTHING is free. Somebody somewhere has to pay.

I am sure that everybody realizes that there is a cost -- but the cost is
spread over the whole community. Nobody in the UK (or in a multitude of
other nations) is bankrupted by doctors' or hospital bills.

Perce

I just came back from 16 days in Italy. I spent some time sipping Ouzo
with a University professor. He pays about 45% of his income in taxes, as
do most Italians. Socialism is not cheap.

On Oct 7, 1:50*am, harry wrote:
Can hardly find a mention of it on American news channels.
Yet hundreds are being arrested and the polic eare beating up woman
and spraying them with gas.
All reported on foriegn news channels.
Clearly th American media are inthe pockest of the rich.

JP Morgan have given the NYPD $4.6M to help with suppression of
dissent.

http://occupywallst.org/

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...01110322544595...

http://rt.com/news/wall-street-city-hall-977/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf.../sep/25/occupy...

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2011/...ws-interview-w...


Operation Wall Street, the gift that will keep on giving to whoever is
the Republican nominee.

Whoever wins the independents and vast 60% middle wins the election.
When the independents have to watch these hippies whine and complain
for the next 13 months because their Ivy league degree in "womens
studies" qualifies them for a good job at McDonalds, the Independents
will leave the left in droves. Especially if you are a 08' Obama dad
or mom who was duped and sacrificing now to send a kid to a mediocre
state college for a useful degree. Those who quietly suffer this
downturn by cutting back, and working harder, dont like to hear wimps
complain for their "entitlement". Oh yeah this is a gift to the
right.

On Oct 8, 6:57*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:
On Oct 7, 6:55 am, Han wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote
om:

"HeyBub" wrote

Heh! The protest is well-covered here. I saw a "man on the street"
interview with one of the protesters. The sign-carrying marcher
was a 23-year old recent college graduate whose main complaint was
he couldn't find a job.

"What was your college major?" asked the interviewer.

"I don't see how that's relevant," replied the protester.

It is not relevant. Anyone with a degree in Greek literature from
4200BC to 4100BC should be able to find the job of his dreams. Those
oppressive capitalists are just not giving him a chance.

LOL. Indeed. His verbal skills should have landed him a lobbyists'
job
long ago ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

You need more than verbal skills to be a successful lobbyist. *You
need a total vacuum where your morals should be.

Lobbyists get a bad rap; they are absolutely necessary to a functioning
government.

In sum, lobbyists provide FREE expert advice on pending legislation. Would
you want your local congress-critter to vote for the rail tariff on
hydrogenated yak-fat? Hell, he probably doesn't even know what a yak is, let
alone what the fifty-cents per hdwt tariff would do to the struggling
yak-fat business.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yes, do the people who shout "no more lobbyists" even know that the
UAW, teachers union, and trial lawers all have lobbyists too? Or do
they just want to get rid of "those other lobbyists"? And if this
group thinks all CEO's are evil, do they also think that about CEO's
like Oprah, Steve Jobs, and any left-leaning hollywood actor getting
10-20 million for one movie who happens to want to start their own
studio?

On Oct 9, 1:28*pm, harry wrote:
On Oct 9, 12:59*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:





On 10/8/2011 2:42 AM, harry wrote:

On Oct 7, 7:38 pm, *wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:59 am, *wrote:

On Oct 7, 1:19 pm,
wrote: *On Oct 7, 2:50 am, *wrote:

Can hardly find a mention of it on American news channels.

Once again, the village idiot's grasp of the facts is exposed.
* It's been covered as one of the top stories for days here on
* CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, CNN.....

No links then I see?

Google broken in your town?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg9v3...atedhttp://www....

This is more interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuDPsE-oQI

Me, like most rational Americans have no problem with protests and
peaceful assemblies because we have a right to PEACEFUL assembly.
The problem comes in when the protest interferes with MY rights or
the rights of OTHERS. I wonder how Michael Moore would feel if a
group of ultra conservative people who don't like his films, decided
to block him from going about his lawful business. The band of useful
idiots for The Left who are running wild in the streets have no clue
how The Economy works and how the whole mess was caused by GOVERNMENT
interference with The Economy. The government can not create real jobs,
the government can only interfere and prevent the creation of real jobs..
Many businesses are holding on to their money because they have no idea
what our first and last Affirmative Action President and his minions
are going to do next to muck everything up. Businesses like people, vote
with their feet. If the government in one place interferes too much with
business, the business will go elsewhere to find a place with little or
no interference with their lawful activities. A good example
is anti-business California which is losing population and businesses
to states like Texas where a business can thrive without burdensome
government regulations and taxes. The cluster coitus known as The
Economy is in deep trouble for some very complicated reasons not easily
understood by the sheeple. The problem, as usual, is The Left pointing
the blame gun at the wrong target.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The government is in the pockets of big business and the wealthy. That
is what they are beefing about. Politicians are bought, they are not
elected, they buy their places thanks to a brainwashed electorate.
The firstthingyou need to do is stop lobbying and stop politicians
from getting money from industry, commerce and *private individuals to
finance their election campaigns.

The nation exists for the benifit of the majority not the hierarchy.
You are returning to monarchy, theonly difference being a new one is
installed every few years.
In fact you never left monarchy. *Your "independence" *was only so
rich people didn't have to pay taxes. Nothing has changed since.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The govt is in their pockets simply because the govt became their
debtors by using the treasury continually to buy votes from this or
that group. In America wealth is created by, and flows from, private
sector to public, not the other way around. Its good that the govt
finally knows what it feels like to be "owned", if we are lucky the
govt will be "right sized" in this generation. But I think this
generation is too greedy for that, the Operation Wall Street crowd has
a sense of spoiled entitlement, that will simply cause the govt to get
even bigger at the expense of our children and their children.
Socialism eventually runs out of money, because real wealth is created
through free enterprise, and governments feed off that teet. As it
should be.

On Oct 10, 4:27*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 10/10/2011 1:53 AM, harry wrote:





On Oct 9, 12:59 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 10/8/2011 2:42 AM, harry wrote:

On Oct 7, 7:38 pm, * *wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:59 am, * *wrote:

On Oct 7, 1:19 pm,
wrote: * *On Oct 7, 2:50 am, * *wrote:

Can hardly find a mention of it on American news channels.

Once again, the village idiot's grasp of the facts is exposed.
* *It's been covered as one of the top stories for days here on
* *CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, CNN.....

No links then I see?

Google broken in your town?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg9v3...atedhttp://www....

This is more interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuDPsE-oQI

Me, like most rational Americans have no problem with protests and
peaceful assemblies because we have a right to PEACEFUL assembly.
The problem comes in when the protest interferes with MY rights or
the rights of OTHERS. I wonder how Michael Moore would feel if a
group of ultra conservative people who don't like his films, decided
to block him from going about his lawful business. The band of useful
idiots for The Left who are running wild in the streets have no clue
how The Economy works and how the whole mess was caused by GOVERNMENT
interference with The Economy. The government can not create real jobs,
the government can only interfere and prevent the creation of real jobs.
Many businesses are holding on to their money because they have no idea
what our first and last Affirmative Action President and his minions
are going to do next to muck everything up. Businesses like people, vote
with their feet. If the government in one place interferes too much with
business, the business will go elsewhere to find a place with little or
no interference with their lawful activities. A good example
is anti-business California which is losing population and businesses
to states like Texas where a business can thrive without burdensome
government regulations and taxes. The cluster coitus known as The
Economy is in deep trouble for some very complicated reasons not easily
understood by the sheeple. The problem, as usual, is The Left pointing
the blame gun at the wrong target.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The problem arises in all governments when the politicians/wealthy
come to believe they have a "right" to their positions of power wealth
and that they are entitled to take any steps neccesary to maintain the
status quo.
This is when corruption sets in. *They wil not relinquish these
"rights" without a struggle.

Government is about taxation and redistribution of resources. *When
the wealthy get too wealthy, you no longer have democracy.
You haven't had democracy for years in America.

The United States has never been a democracy, it has always been a
federal republic. Democracies always fail because the majority soon
realize that they can vote to take away all the money and stuff from
other people for themselves. That's why Democrats act the way they do.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb taking a vote on what to have for
dinner...

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

- Benjamin Franklin

Thank God America is a federal republic.

On Oct 10, 7:41*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
JimT wrote:

*Foreign policy wise, Obama seems to have been a
better choice. It's not just me that thinks this:

Giggle.

Obama took no stand on events in Egypt, Iran, or Syria. He refused Taiwan's
request for military upgrades of its fighter force. He's shown impotence
against the Horn of Africa pirates. He's dissed Israel at every opportunity.
He sat on trade agreements with Columbia, Panama, and Peru (?) for three
years.

This latter has devastated our wheat exports.

No, foreign policy is not Obama's strong suit.


Dont forget that he presented no budget either.

On Oct 10, 9:16*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

...

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has
been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before
the
end.

Uh oh! *We're being HeyBubbed again!

Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed of the
fastest horse. *Things move quite a bit more quickly now. *Total,
world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays with nuclear
weapons. *Your "measures" and extrapolations are both bogus. *Life moves
much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

How long did the English Empire last? *According to your metrics, it should
be still a healthy, powerful world entity. *What we actually have is Harry
and Company. *Not very much a threat to the world.

--
Bobby G.


Harry should go get some great dental work done with that wonderful
social health insurance he has. One quick phone call to the dentist
and a convenient appointment will be scheduled in a couple of days I'm
sure. Just like it works here, no, thats not the way it works over
there?

On Oct 10, 8:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States
has been in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred
years before the end.

Uh oh! *We're being HeyBubbed again!

I get my information off of the internet!

"This slow decline occurred over a period of approximately 320 years,
culminating on September 4, 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last Emperor of
the Western Roman Empire, was deposed by Odoacer, a Germanic chieftain."



Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed
of the fastest horse. *Things move quite a bit more quickly now.
Total, world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays
with nuclear weapons. *Your "measures" and extrapolations are both
bogus. *Life moves much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

A knife thrust into the belly of the emperor is considerably faster than the
fastest horse, even faster than the internet.



How long did the English Empire last? *According to your metrics, it
should be still a healthy, powerful world entity.

Huh? I didn't say that or even intimate it.



What we actually have is Harry and Company. *Not very much a threat to the
world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually those Germans knocked down a major aqueduct. Rome was soon
gone after that. The achilles heel of Rome was the aqueduct, one of
the very things that made it thrive. At some point you cant defend
something as big as an aqueduct, a few enterprising demolitionists in
the countryside while your army is spread all over the medeterranean
putting down minor insurrections will do the trick.

On Oct 10, 9:13*pm, BobR wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:59*am, harry wrote:





On Oct 10, 1:35*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. *They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. *They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. *The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. *They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. *The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We and to some extent corporations willing to sell out the company for
fast profit. For example Dell asked a Chinese company to begin making
one of their small circuit boards in a laptop, a very small USB
interface board that sat off the mother board and held/buffered the
USB ports. The Chinese company did this and increased Dells profit on
the laptops. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
mother board. Dell agreed, closed its MB manufacturing up and made
more profit. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
laptop. Dell agreed, and shipped all assembly and part sourcing to
China and much of the industrial and product engineering too. For
about 3 years Dell's profits soared because they were able to close
all us plants and engineering. Then the Chinese company approached
the retailers like Best Buy and said we can sell you the same Dell
computer under our brand for 25% less than the Dell. Now Dell is
nothing more than a useless brand, incapable of making or engineering
their own devices, and their main "supplier" is undercutting them in
the market. This story is being repeated many times and with India
too, with the recent movement of our once massive IT development
industry to India. The US people want cheap goods, the companies want
fast profits for shareholders, but neither realizes the adage
"throwing out the baby with the bathwater". At some point China makes
chumbalones out of the US (to use a common Chicago term for a patsy).
At some point we need to get access to their market and they need to
properly value their currency, if that wont happen soon then we are in
trouble, because the typical MBA running companies today has no long
term outlook.

On 10/10/11 10:13 pm, BobR wrote:

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.

Henry Ford, I have read, paid his employees more than the going rate at
the time and gave them more time off, partly so they didn't unionize,
but partly so that they would have the means to buy his products and the
opportunity to use them (without which there would not have been any
point in buying them even when they could afford them).

But now US companies don't have to care whether their own employees can
afford to buy their products because there are people elsewhere who can.

Perce

On 10/10/2011 11:23 PM, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:21 pm, wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States
has been in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred
years before the end.

Uh oh! We're being HeyBubbed again!

I get my information off of the internet!

"This slow decline occurred over a period of approximately 320 years,
culminating on September 4, 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last Emperor of
the Western Roman Empire, was deposed by Odoacer, a Germanic chieftain."



Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed
of the fastest horse. Things move quite a bit more quickly now.
Total, world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays
with nuclear weapons. Your "measures" and extrapolations are both
bogus. Life moves much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

A knife thrust into the belly of the emperor is considerably faster than the
fastest horse, even faster than the internet.



How long did the English Empire last? According to your metrics, it
should be still a healthy, powerful world entity.

Huh? I didn't say that or even intimate it.



What we actually have is Harry and Company. Not very much a threat to the
world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually those Germans knocked down a major aqueduct. Rome was soon
gone after that. The achilles heel of Rome was the aqueduct, one of
the very things that made it thrive. At some point you cant defend
something as big as an aqueduct, a few enterprising demolitionists in
the countryside while your army is spread all over the medeterranean
putting down minor insurrections will do the trick.


Please don't remind the world about how many soft targets North America
has, that are totally impractical to defend.

--
aem sends...

On 10/11/2011 12:14 AM, aemeijers wrote:
On 10/10/2011 11:23 PM, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:21 pm, wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States
has been in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred
years before the end.

Uh oh! We're being HeyBubbed again!

I get my information off of the internet!

"This slow decline occurred over a period of approximately 320 years,
culminating on September 4, 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last
Emperor of
the Western Roman Empire, was deposed by Odoacer, a Germanic chieftain."



Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed
of the fastest horse. Things move quite a bit more quickly now.
Total, world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays
with nuclear weapons. Your "measures" and extrapolations are both
bogus. Life moves much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

A knife thrust into the belly of the emperor is considerably faster
than the
fastest horse, even faster than the internet.



How long did the English Empire last? According to your metrics, it
should be still a healthy, powerful world entity.

Huh? I didn't say that or even intimate it.



What we actually have is Harry and Company. Not very much a threat
to the
world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually those Germans knocked down a major aqueduct. Rome was soon
gone after that. The achilles heel of Rome was the aqueduct, one of
the very things that made it thrive. At some point you cant defend
something as big as an aqueduct, a few enterprising demolitionists in
the countryside while your army is spread all over the medeterranean
putting down minor insurrections will do the trick.


Please don't remind the world about how many soft targets North America
has, that are totally impractical to defend.


That's why we should use our nukes, when The Twin Towers fell, our
government should have taken out a Saudi port or city. The only thing
people in The Middle East understand is a severe ass kicking. After
nuking a large target over there, let them know that Mecca is next if
they so much as look at us the wrong way. I had a Middle Eastern guy
tell me that the only man who could control Iraq was Saddam Hussein.
I think what it meant was the people only understood brutality and
tyranny coupled with swift harsh punishment for misbehaving. Wasn't
it amazing how Moammar Kadafi shut up after U.S. air power almost got
him. ^_^

TDD

On Oct 11, 12:06*am, BobR wrote:
On Oct 10, 1:53*am, harry wrote:





On Oct 9, 12:59*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 10/8/2011 2:42 AM, harry wrote:

On Oct 7, 7:38 pm, *wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:59 am, *wrote:

On Oct 7, 1:19 pm,
wrote: *On Oct 7, 2:50 am, *wrote:

Can hardly find a mention of it on American news channels.

Once again, the village idiot's grasp of the facts is exposed.
* It's been covered as one of the top stories for days here on
* CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, CNN.....

No links then I see?

Google broken in your town?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg9v3...atedhttp://www....

This is more interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuDPsE-oQI

Me, like most rational Americans have no problem with protests and
peaceful assemblies because we have a right to PEACEFUL assembly.
The problem comes in when the protest interferes with MY rights or
the rights of OTHERS. I wonder how Michael Moore would feel if a
group of ultra conservative people who don't like his films, decided
to block him from going about his lawful business. The band of useful
idiots for The Left who are running wild in the streets have no clue
how The Economy works and how the whole mess was caused by GOVERNMENT
interference with The Economy. The government can not create real jobs,
the government can only interfere and prevent the creation of real jobs.
Many businesses are holding on to their money because they have no idea
what our first and last Affirmative Action President and his minions
are going to do next to muck everything up. Businesses like people, vote
with their feet. If the government in one place interferes too much with
business, the business will go elsewhere to find a place with little or
no interference with their lawful activities. A good example
is anti-business California which is losing population and businesses
to states like Texas where a business can thrive without burdensome
government regulations and taxes. The cluster coitus known as The
Economy is in deep trouble for some very complicated reasons not easily
understood by the sheeple. The problem, as usual, is The Left pointing
the blame gun at the wrong target.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The problem arises in all governments when the politicians/wealthy
come to believe they have a "right" to their positions of power wealth
and that they are entitled to take any steps neccesary to maintain the
status quo.
This is when corruption sets in. *They wil not relinquish these
"rights" without a struggle.

Government is about taxation and redistribution of resources. *When
the wealthy get too wealthy, you no longer have democracy.
You haven't had democracy for years in America.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You have that totally and completely backwards!

When the government undertakes to redistribute the wealth from those
who earn it and generate it to those who sit on their lazy ass and
demand more for nothing...that is the end of democracy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The opposite is the end of democracy. The rich are never satisfied,
they always want more. It's called the Kleptocracy.
In America they do this by buying politicians. You only get to vote
for the ones they support. The only new laws you get are supported by
influencial lobbyists.
All this is/has happened in front of your eyes. Are you so dumb you
can't see it?
This is why Wall Street has been occupied. By the people who can see
it.

On 10/10/2011 10:41 PM, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 9:13 pm, wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:59 am, wrote:





On Oct 10, 1:35 pm, wrote:

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. No empire has ever suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We and to some extent corporations willing to sell out the company for
fast profit. For example Dell asked a Chinese company to begin making
one of their small circuit boards in a laptop, a very small USB
interface board that sat off the mother board and held/buffered the
USB ports. The Chinese company did this and increased Dells profit on
the laptops. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
mother board. Dell agreed, closed its MB manufacturing up and made
more profit. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
laptop. Dell agreed, and shipped all assembly and part sourcing to
China and much of the industrial and product engineering too. For
about 3 years Dell's profits soared because they were able to close
all us plants and engineering. Then the Chinese company approached
the retailers like Best Buy and said we can sell you the same Dell
computer under our brand for 25% less than the Dell. Now Dell is
nothing more than a useless brand, incapable of making or engineering
their own devices, and their main "supplier" is undercutting them in
the market. This story is being repeated many times and with India
too, with the recent movement of our once massive IT development
industry to India. The US people want cheap goods, the companies want
fast profits for shareholders, but neither realizes the adage
"throwing out the baby with the bathwater". At some point China makes
chumbalones out of the US (to use a common Chicago term for a patsy).
At some point we need to get access to their market and they need to
properly value their currency, if that wont happen soon then we are in
trouble, because the typical MBA running companies today has no long
term outlook.


If the U.S. was as business friendly as China, all sorts of factories
would be opening in The States. A manufacturer is going to move out of
a place that doesn't appreciate or value its presence. The U.S.
government has made it TOO difficult for manufacturers to open and run
factories. When junk science is used to interfere with business,
business goes someplace else. The EPA designating CO2 as pollution and
requiring manufacturers to spend huge sums of money/profits to mitigate
CO2 is driving many of them away. Of course there are all the other
onerous requirements that also drive up the cost of doing business. I
may have mentioned before that business are leaving anti business
California for business friendly states like Texas and the jobs go with
them.

TDD

On Oct 11, 2:48*am, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:16:03 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Your Indepenedence war was just so rich people didn't have to pay
taxes as I have frequently pointed out. *Nothing to do with "freedom".

So what? I was talking about the SECOND War of Independence. In my part of
the country we call it the "recent unplesantness."

That was the War of Northern Aggression.

It was another form of economic warfare. Slaves made the productsof
the South cheap. They didn't want that. They removed the South's most
important economic asset and condemned them to poverty as their
industry was mostly labour intensive..

On Oct 11, 3:22*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in ...

On 10/10/11 03:31 pm, aemeijers wrote:

I go to the dentist for free. I have all my teeth. Have you?

You may not pay directly, but it certainly is not free.

NOTHING is free. Somebody somewhere has to pay.

I am sure that everybody realizes that there is a cost -- but the cost is
spread over the whole community. Nobody in the UK (or in a multitude of
other nations) is bankrupted by doctors' or hospital bills.

Perce

I just came back from 16 days in Italy. * I spent some time sipping Ouzo
with a University professor. *He pays about 45% of his income in taxes, as
do most Italians. *Socialism is not cheap.

I thought Ouzo was Greek?

On Oct 11, 3:13*am, BobR wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:59*am, harry wrote:





On Oct 10, 1:35*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. *They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. *They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. *The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. *They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. *The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They produced the goods you went out and blythly bought with child/neo
slave labour working in terrible conditions. You should be ashamed of
yourself.
It was a cunningly thought out plan.
Why do you suppose they are your friends suddenly? You are very
credulous. Or do you just bury your head in the sand?

You will never take advantage of them whilst their currency is so low.
(Part of the plan of course)
When they take over Taiwan, (soon I think, Obama has sent them the
message) you will see what nice people they really are.

You are falling into the usual American pitfall of thinking that
Chinese are just like Americans. Well they are not.
(And you think the Iraqis gave you trouble!)

On Oct 11, 4:04*am, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 9:16*am, "Robert Green" wrote:





"HeyBub" wrote in message

...

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has
been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before
the
end.

Uh oh! *We're being HeyBubbed again!

Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed of the
fastest horse. *Things move quite a bit more quickly now. *Total,
world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays with nuclear
weapons. *Your "measures" and extrapolations are both bogus. *Life moves
much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

How long did the English Empire last? *According to your metrics, it should
be still a healthy, powerful world entity. *What we actually have is Harry
and Company. *Not very much a threat to the world.

--
Bobby G.

Harry should go get some great dental work done with that wonderful
social health insurance he has. *One quick phone call to the dentist
and a convenient appointment will be scheduled in a couple of days I'm
sure. *Just like it works here, no, thats not the way it works over
there?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes,that's what happens. And with the doctor/GP. I can go see him
(quarter mile away ) the same day if it's urgent.
I can ring for an ambulance, it will be here in minutes. They have a
helicopter too. My nieghbour was taken away in the helicopter two
weeks ago. (Kicked in the face by a cow)

And you know what? No-one asks me about insurance and money.
If you were visiting you would get the same treatment. Not like the
money grubbing American system.

On Oct 11, 3:56*am, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 4:27*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:





On 10/10/2011 1:53 AM, harry wrote:

On Oct 9, 12:59 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 10/8/2011 2:42 AM, harry wrote:

On Oct 7, 7:38 pm, * *wrote:
On Oct 7, 8:59 am, * *wrote:

On Oct 7, 1:19 pm,
wrote: * *On Oct 7, 2:50 am, * *wrote:

Can hardly find a mention of it on American news channels.

Once again, the village idiot's grasp of the facts is exposed.
* *It's been covered as one of the top stories for days here on
* *CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, CNN.....

No links then I see?

Google broken in your town?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg9v3...atedhttp://www....

This is more interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuDPsE-oQI

Me, like most rational Americans have no problem with protests and
peaceful assemblies because we have a right to PEACEFUL assembly.
The problem comes in when the protest interferes with MY rights or
the rights of OTHERS. I wonder how Michael Moore would feel if a
group of ultra conservative people who don't like his films, decided
to block him from going about his lawful business. The band of useful
idiots for The Left who are running wild in the streets have no clue
how The Economy works and how the whole mess was caused by GOVERNMENT
interference with The Economy. The government can not create real jobs,
the government can only interfere and prevent the creation of real jobs.
Many businesses are holding on to their money because they have no idea
what our first and last Affirmative Action President and his minions
are going to do next to muck everything up. Businesses like people, vote
with their feet. If the government in one place interferes too much with
business, the business will go elsewhere to find a place with little or
no interference with their lawful activities. A good example
is anti-business California which is losing population and businesses
to states like Texas where a business can thrive without burdensome
government regulations and taxes. The cluster coitus known as The
Economy is in deep trouble for some very complicated reasons not easily
understood by the sheeple. The problem, as usual, is The Left pointing
the blame gun at the wrong target.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The problem arises in all governments when the politicians/wealthy
come to believe they have a "right" to their positions of power wealth
and that they are entitled to take any steps neccesary to maintain the
status quo.
This is when corruption sets in. *They wil not relinquish these
"rights" without a struggle.

Government is about taxation and redistribution of resources. *When
the wealthy get too wealthy, you no longer have democracy.
You haven't had democracy for years in America.

The United States has never been a democracy, it has always been a
federal republic. Democracies always fail because the majority soon
realize that they can vote to take away all the money and stuff from
other people for themselves. That's why Democrats act the way they do.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb taking a vote on what to have for
dinner...

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

- Benjamin Franklin

Thank God America is a federal republic.- Hide quoted text -

WAS.

On Oct 11, 4:23*am, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





Robert Green wrote:

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States
has been in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred
years before the end.

Uh oh! *We're being HeyBubbed again!

I get my information off of the internet!

"This slow decline occurred over a period of approximately 320 years,
culminating on September 4, 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last Emperor of
the Western Roman Empire, was deposed by Odoacer, a Germanic chieftain."

Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed
of the fastest horse. *Things move quite a bit more quickly now.
Total, world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays
with nuclear weapons. *Your "measures" and extrapolations are both
bogus. *Life moves much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

A knife thrust into the belly of the emperor is considerably faster than the
fastest horse, even faster than the internet.

How long did the English Empire last? *According to your metrics, it
should be still a healthy, powerful world entity.

Huh? I didn't say that or even intimate it.

What we actually have is Harry and Company. *Not very much a threat to the
world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually those Germans knocked down a major aqueduct. *Rome was soon
gone after that. *The achilles heel of Rome was the aqueduct, one of
the very things that made it thrive. *At some point you cant defend
something as big as an aqueduct, a few enterprising demolitionists in
the countryside while your army is spread all over the medeterranean
putting down minor insurrections will do the trick.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Germany was created by Bismarck/Wilhelm I in 1871 so it hardly seems
likely.
But one can hardly expect people who don't know their own history to
know anyone elses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany...ion_and_Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck

On Oct 11, 4:41*am, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 9:13*pm, BobR wrote:





On Oct 10, 10:59*am, harry wrote:

On Oct 10, 1:35*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. *They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. *They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. *The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. *They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. *The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We and to some extent corporations willing to sell out the company for
fast profit. *For example Dell asked a Chinese company to begin making
one of their small circuit boards in a laptop, a very small USB
interface board that sat off the mother board and held/buffered the
USB ports. *The Chinese company did this and increased Dells profit on
the laptops. *Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
mother board. *Dell agreed, closed its MB manufacturing up and made
more profit. *Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
laptop. *Dell agreed, and shipped all assembly and part sourcing to
China and much of the industrial and product engineering too. *For
about 3 years Dell's profits soared because they were able to close
all us plants and engineering. *Then the Chinese company approached
the retailers like Best Buy and said we can sell you the same Dell
computer under our brand for 25% less than the Dell. *Now Dell is
nothing more than a useless brand, incapable of making or engineering
their own devices, and their main "supplier" is undercutting them in
the market. *This story is being repeated many times and with India
too, with the recent movement of our once massive IT development
industry to India. *The US people want cheap goods, the companies want
fast profits for shareholders, but neither realizes the adage
"throwing out the baby with the bathwater". *At some point China makes
chumbalones out of the US (to use a common Chicago term for a patsy).
At some point we need to get access to their market and they need to
properly value their currency, if that wont happen soon then we are in
trouble, because the typical MBA running companies today has no long
term outlook.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ah. Someone sees my point.

On Oct 11, 7:57*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 10/11/2011 12:14 AM, aemeijers wrote:





On 10/10/2011 11:23 PM, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:21 pm, wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States
has been in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred
years before the end.

Uh oh! We're being HeyBubbed again!

I get my information off of the internet!

"This slow decline occurred over a period of approximately 320 years,
culminating on September 4, 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last
Emperor of
the Western Roman Empire, was deposed by Odoacer, a Germanic chieftain."

Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed
of the fastest horse. Things move quite a bit more quickly now.
Total, world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays
with nuclear weapons. Your "measures" and extrapolations are both
bogus. Life moves much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

A knife thrust into the belly of the emperor is considerably faster
than the
fastest horse, even faster than the internet.

How long did the English Empire last? According to your metrics, it
should be still a healthy, powerful world entity.

Huh? I didn't say that or even intimate it.

What we actually have is Harry and Company. Not very much a threat
to the
world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually those Germans knocked down a major aqueduct. Rome was soon
gone after that. The achilles heel of Rome was the aqueduct, one of
the very things that made it thrive. At some point you cant defend
something as big as an aqueduct, a few enterprising demolitionists in
the countryside while your army is spread all over the medeterranean
putting down minor insurrections will do the trick.

Please don't remind the world about how many soft targets North America
has, that are totally impractical to defend.

That's why we should use our nukes, when The Twin Towers fell, our
government should have taken out a Saudi port or city. The only thing
people in The Middle East understand is a severe ass kicking. After
nuking a large target over there, let them know that Mecca is next if
they so much as look at us the wrong way. I had a Middle Eastern guy
tell me that the only man who could control Iraq was Saddam Hussein.
I think what it meant was the people only understood brutality and
tyranny coupled with swift harsh punishment for misbehaving. Wasn't
it amazing how Moammar Kadafi shut up after U.S. air power almost got
him. ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bit excessive Duf. Send the US fleet into the Gulf/Red Sea would have
been a better plan.
You should then have "invited" the Saudis to pay compensation. A few
hundred billion. They could afford it.
And Wahibi-ism is where it all started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahibi

Maybe progressively zapped them then if they wouldn't pay.

On Oct 11, 8:23*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 10/10/2011 10:41 PM, RickH wrote:





On Oct 10, 9:13 pm, *wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:59 am, *wrote:

On Oct 10, 1:35 pm, *wrote:

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. *No empire has ever *suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. *There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. *They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. *They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. *The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. *They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. *The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We and to some extent corporations willing to sell out the company for
fast profit. *For example Dell asked a Chinese company to begin making
one of their small circuit boards in a laptop, a very small USB
interface board that sat off the mother board and held/buffered the
USB ports. *The Chinese company did this and increased Dells profit on
the laptops. *Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
mother board. *Dell agreed, closed its MB manufacturing up and made
more profit. *Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
laptop. *Dell agreed, and shipped all assembly and part sourcing to
China and much of the industrial and product engineering too. *For
about 3 years Dell's profits soared because they were able to close
all us plants and engineering. *Then the Chinese company approached
the retailers like Best Buy and said we can sell you the same Dell
computer under our brand for 25% less than the Dell. *Now Dell is
nothing more than a useless brand, incapable of making or engineering
their own devices, and their main "supplier" is undercutting them in
the market. *This story is being repeated many times and with India
too, with the recent movement of our once massive IT development
industry to India. *The US people want cheap goods, the companies want
fast profits for shareholders, but neither realizes the adage
"throwing out the baby with the bathwater". *At some point China makes
chumbalones out of the US (to use a common Chicago term for a patsy).
At some point we need to get access to their market and they need to
properly value their currency, if that wont happen soon then we are in
trouble, because the typical MBA running companies today has no long
term outlook.

If the U.S. was as business friendly as China, all sorts of factories
would be opening in The States. A manufacturer is going to move out of
a place that doesn't appreciate or value its presence. The U.S.
government has made it TOO difficult for manufacturers to open and run
factories. When junk science is used to interfere with business,
business goes someplace else. The EPA designating CO2 as pollution and
requiring manufacturers to spend huge sums of money/profits to mitigate
CO2 is driving many of them away. Of course there are all the other
onerous requirements that also drive up the cost of doing business. I
may have mentioned before that business are leaving anti business
California for business friendly states like Texas and the jobs go with
them.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Duf,you are in CCL. The Chinese steal American jobs and more
importantly the technology. They used to do labour intensive resarch
for European companies but no longer, there was a government spy(s) in
every laboratory . They garner in all the knowhow cheap.

I don't call giving people a decent living wage and safety conditions
an onerous requirement. You want to go back to 19th century working
conditions in America?

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Oct 11, 3:22 am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in
...

On 10/10/11 03:31 pm, aemeijers wrote:

I go to the dentist for free. I have all my teeth. Have you?

You may not pay directly, but it certainly is not free.

NOTHING is free. Somebody somewhere has to pay.

I am sure that everybody realizes that there is a cost -- but the cost
is
spread over the whole community. Nobody in the UK (or in a multitude of
other nations) is bankrupted by doctors' or hospital bills.

Perce

I just came back from 16 days in Italy. I spent some time sipping Ouzo
with a University professor. He pays about 45% of his income in taxes,
as
do most Italians. Socialism is not cheap.

I thought Ouzo was Greek?

It is. My host is a very international kind of guy. He gave my wife
Limoncello though.

"BobR" wrote
Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.

I used to have this dream of becoming rich by making a product that sells
cheap and gives me 50 cents profit and every American wants one.. Now I
dream of making a product that gives me only 25 cents profit, but everyone
in China and India will buy one.

On 10/11/2011 3:31 AM, harry wrote:
On Oct 11, 7:57 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 10/11/2011 12:14 AM, aemeijers wrote:





On 10/10/2011 11:23 PM, RickH wrote:
On Oct 10, 8:21 pm, wrote:
Robert Green wrote:

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States
has been in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred
years before the end.

Uh oh! We're being HeyBubbed again!

I get my information off of the internet!

"This slow decline occurred over a period of approximately 320 years,
culminating on September 4, 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last
Emperor of
the Western Roman Empire, was deposed by Odoacer, a Germanic chieftain."

Life and events in ancient Rome could move no faster than the speed
of the fastest horse. Things move quite a bit more quickly now.
Total, world-ending war could take place in just a few hours nowadays
with nuclear weapons. Your "measures" and extrapolations are both
bogus. Life moves much more quickly these days than in ancient Rome.

A knife thrust into the belly of the emperor is considerably faster
than the
fastest horse, even faster than the internet.

How long did the English Empire last? According to your metrics, it
should be still a healthy, powerful world entity.

Huh? I didn't say that or even intimate it.

What we actually have is Harry and Company. Not very much a threat
to the
world.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Actually those Germans knocked down a major aqueduct. Rome was soon
gone after that. The achilles heel of Rome was the aqueduct, one of
the very things that made it thrive. At some point you cant defend
something as big as an aqueduct, a few enterprising demolitionists in
the countryside while your army is spread all over the medeterranean
putting down minor insurrections will do the trick.

Please don't remind the world about how many soft targets North America
has, that are totally impractical to defend.

That's why we should use our nukes, when The Twin Towers fell, our
government should have taken out a Saudi port or city. The only thing
people in The Middle East understand is a severe ass kicking. After
nuking a large target over there, let them know that Mecca is next if
they so much as look at us the wrong way. I had a Middle Eastern guy
tell me that the only man who could control Iraq was Saddam Hussein.
I think what it meant was the people only understood brutality and
tyranny coupled with swift harsh punishment for misbehaving. Wasn't
it amazing how Moammar Kadafi shut up after U.S. air power almost got
him. ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bit excessive Duf. Send the US fleet into the Gulf/Red Sea would have
been a better plan.
You should then have "invited" the Saudis to pay compensation. A few
hundred billion. They could afford it.
And Wahibi-ism is where it all started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahibi

Maybe progressively zapped them then if they wouldn't pay.

Cowboy diplomacy. I remember when a lot of the terror groups wouldn't
mess with The Soviets because they would hunt down the terrorist's
children and vivisect them in front of the terrorist before slicing
and dicing the terrorists themselves. I wouldn't want a group of
Spetsnaz coming after me. ^_^

TDD

On 10/11/2011 3:37 AM, harry wrote:
On Oct 11, 8:23 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 10/10/2011 10:41 PM, RickH wrote:





On Oct 10, 9:13 pm, wrote:
On Oct 10, 10:59 am, wrote:

On Oct 10, 1:35 pm, wrote:

harry wrote:

All empires fail from within. The collapse will take a few years but
is inevitable. No empire has ever suceeded in recovering from it's
decline.The rats/wealthy will fight for scraps seeking to preserve
their positions with no regard to the less well off. There's gonna be
a "Winter of discontent". Probably a few of them.

Heh! It took the Roman Empire longer to fall than the United States has been
in existence. We have, by that measure, a couple of hundred years before the
end.

So, why are the Russians and Chinese being so aggressive in manufacturing
and trade?

The crowd holds its breath!

Economic warfare. Totally successful too. They have destroyed your
economy. They sussed out that your own greed and aquisitivness would
be your downfall. They produced cheap crap from their slave labour
factories and you bought whilst your own industry went to the wall.
Hung byyour own petard is the expression.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You clearly buy into all the liberal bull**** lies with an unmatched
ignorance.

WE destroyed our own economy, not anyone else. The Chinese did not
produce cheap crap with slave labor. They produced exactly what the
American Public demanded and wanted with a labor force that was more
than willing to work for wages that they had never before been able to
obtain. The Chinese people have as a result built an economy that is
now becoming consumers that if we were half as smart as we pretend to
be, we would be taking advantage of.

Make no mistake that every corporation with half an ounce of
intelligence fully understands that a mere 300 million consumers in
the USA pales by comparison to the other 6 billion potiential world
wide consumers.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We and to some extent corporations willing to sell out the company for
fast profit. For example Dell asked a Chinese company to begin making
one of their small circuit boards in a laptop, a very small USB
interface board that sat off the mother board and held/buffered the
USB ports. The Chinese company did this and increased Dells profit on
the laptops. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
mother board. Dell agreed, closed its MB manufacturing up and made
more profit. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
laptop. Dell agreed, and shipped all assembly and part sourcing to
China and much of the industrial and product engineering too. For
about 3 years Dell's profits soared because they were able to close
all us plants and engineering. Then the Chinese company approached
the retailers like Best Buy and said we can sell you the same Dell
computer under our brand for 25% less than the Dell. Now Dell is
nothing more than a useless brand, incapable of making or engineering
their own devices, and their main "supplier" is undercutting them in
the market. This story is being repeated many times and with India
too, with the recent movement of our once massive IT development
industry to India. The US people want cheap goods, the companies want
fast profits for shareholders, but neither realizes the adage
"throwing out the baby with the bathwater". At some point China makes
chumbalones out of the US (to use a common Chicago term for a patsy).
At some point we need to get access to their market and they need to
properly value their currency, if that wont happen soon then we are in
trouble, because the typical MBA running companies today has no long
term outlook.

If the U.S. was as business friendly as China, all sorts of factories
would be opening in The States. A manufacturer is going to move out of
a place that doesn't appreciate or value its presence. The U.S.
government has made it TOO difficult for manufacturers to open and run
factories. When junk science is used to interfere with business,
business goes someplace else. The EPA designating CO2 as pollution and
requiring manufacturers to spend huge sums of money/profits to mitigate
CO2 is driving many of them away. Of course there are all the other
onerous requirements that also drive up the cost of doing business. I
may have mentioned before that business are leaving anti business
California for business friendly states like Texas and the jobs go with
them.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Duf,you are in CCL. The Chinese steal American jobs and more
importantly the technology. They used to do labour intensive resarch
for European companies but no longer, there was a government spy(s) in
every laboratory . They garner in all the knowhow cheap.

I don't call giving people a decent living wage and safety conditions
an onerous requirement. You want to go back to 19th century working
conditions in America?

That's not what I'm getting at, use a little common sense. Safety is
good for profits. If employees work in a safe clean environment a
company makes more money because productivity stays up. When there is
a wheelbarrow full of paperwork required for installing a ladder, that's
asinine and the sort of thing federal agencies are famous for. ^_^

TDD

On 10/11/11 06:00 am, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I go to the dentist for free. I have all my teeth. Have you?

You point a sword at the dentist and tell him/her/it "Thou shalt work
on my choppers or I will smite thee!" I wonder how the dentist manages
to buy food, housing and transportation if his/her/its services are
free? ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are free in the sense that even people without money can still
get these services.

So someone actually pays for it. Most of the citizenry pay taxes to the
government and the government pays the dentist. A socialist system where
the government gets most of your money and doles out services. ^_^

Why do Americans look only at taxes they pay? What about the *total
cost* of health care? One problem is that many Americans don't
understand how much their healthcare costs because their employers are
paying for their health insurance. But if you add the cost of health
insurance and co-pays to the taxes you actually pay, then I think you'll
find that the higher taxes (with zero or small health insurance premiums
and minimal or zero co-pays) paid by those in many European (and other)
countries is actually a good deal.

And the UK is different from many other European countries, where there
is a choice of insurance companies and plans, but everyone is covered by
some plan or other and costs are controlled.

Perce

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:43:27 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote Re OT Wall street occupation. Their
Demands (13 of them):

Why do Americans look only at taxes they pay?

Because we're not very smart?

What about the *total cost* of health care?

Exactly.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:16:03 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Your Indepenedence war was just so rich people didn't have to pay
taxes as I have frequently pointed out. Nothing to do with "freedom".

So what? I was talking about the SECOND War of Independence. In my part of
the country we call it the "recent unplesantness."

That was the War of Northern Aggression.

The Unpleasantness Between the States. This term doesn't upset the more
fragile sensibilities who hyperventilate with terms like "war" and
"agression".

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 10/10/11 03:31 pm, aemeijers wrote:

I go to the dentist for free. I have all my teeth. Have you?

You may not pay directly, but it certainly is not free.

NOTHING is free. Somebody somewhere has to pay.

I am sure that everybody realizes that there is a cost -- but the cost
is spread over the whole community. Nobody in the UK (or in a multitude
of other nations) is bankrupted by doctors' or hospital bills.

Perce

It's all a question of priorities. The US could have the best government
sponsored healthcare in the world if we weren't so obsessed with spending
our money on senseless wars, maiming and killing 10's of thousands more
Americans than were killed in the WTC attack. Bad economics.

--
Bobby G.

harry wrote:

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb taking a vote on what to have for
dinner...

Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

- Benjamin Franklin

Thank God America is a federal republic.- Hide quoted text -

WAS.

Still. For example, Wisconsin recently passed a concealed handgun license
law, thereby becoming the 48th state to permit such. Regrettably, the
federal government still makes it difficult (but not impossible) to own a
machine gun, mortar, or hand grenade.

These regulations on crew-served weapons and destructive devices should,
too, be left to the states. I could make good use of a few landmines.

harry wrote:
-

The opposite is the end of democracy. The rich are never satisfied,
they always want more. It's called the Kleptocracy.

Correct. Revolutions are started by those who have much and want more.

In America they do this by buying politicians. You only get to vote
for the ones they support. The only new laws you get are supported by
influencial lobbyists.

Or incompetent presidents.

All this is/has happened in front of your eyes. Are you so dumb you
can't see it?

No, we see it and approve of it.

This is why Wall Street has been occupied. By the people who can see
it.

No, Wall Street is occupied by people who have nothing better to do.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

Why do Americans look only at taxes they pay? What about the *total
cost* of health care? One problem is that many Americans don't
understand how much their healthcare costs because their employers are
paying for their health insurance. But if you add the cost of health
insurance and co-pays to the taxes you actually pay, then I think
you'll find that the higher taxes (with zero or small health
insurance premiums and minimal or zero co-pays) paid by those in many
European (and other) countries is actually a good deal.


There's a simple reason why we Americans pay more for health services than
the rest of the world.

We can.

In some countries, a complaint of "chest pain" results in a bottle of
Nitroglycerin tables. In the U.S. it's often a coronary bypass.

harry wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:48 am, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:16:03 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Your Indepenedence war was just so rich people didn't have to pay
taxes as I have frequently pointed out. Nothing to do with
"freedom".

So what? I was talking about the SECOND War of Independence. In my
part of the country we call it the "recent unplesantness."

That was the War of Northern Aggression.

It was another form of economic warfare. Slaves made the productsof
the South cheap. They didn't want that. They removed the South's most
important economic asset and condemned them to poverty as their
industry was mostly labour intensive..

It WAS economic warfare. The North was desperate. If the South was allowed
to secede, over 40% of the entire nation's exports would disappear (think
"King Cotton").

Is it true? Moments ago, on the Laura Ingraham show (Tues
Oct 11, 2011, about 9:20 AM) she commented that the Wall
Street crowd was creating a sanitation and personal refuse
and body waste problem.

TinyURL was created!
The following URL:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/...rotesters-to-b
e-met-with-force-if-they-target-officers/

has a length of 101 characters and resulted in the following
TinyURL which has a length of 26 characters:
http://tinyurl.com/3caytjd
[Open in new window]

"You know, we'll see. Right now they're on private
property and people who own that property don't have the
power to eject them," he said.

But Brookfield Office Properties, which owns Zuccotti
Park, seems to be slowly building a case against protesters,
saying Thursday that the protestors are interfering with the
use of the park by others and are creating sanitary
problems.

"Sanitation is a growing concern," Brookfield said in a
statement. "Normally the park is cleaned and inspected every
weeknight. . . because the protestors refuse to cooperate. .
..the park has not been cleaned since Friday, September 16th
and as a result, sanitary conditions have reached
unacceptable levels."


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

RickH wrote:

We and to some extent corporations willing to sell out the company for
fast profit. For example Dell asked a Chinese company to begin making
one of their small circuit boards in a laptop, a very small USB
interface board that sat off the mother board and held/buffered the
USB ports. The Chinese company did this and increased Dells profit on
the laptops. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
mother board. Dell agreed, closed its MB manufacturing up and made
more profit. Then the Chinese company offered to make the whole
laptop. Dell agreed, and shipped all assembly and part sourcing to
China and much of the industrial and product engineering too. For
about 3 years Dell's profits soared because they were able to close
all us plants and engineering. Then the Chinese company approached
the retailers like Best Buy and said we can sell you the same Dell
computer under our brand for 25% less than the Dell. Now Dell is
nothing more than a useless brand, incapable of making or engineering
their own devices, and their main "supplier" is undercutting them in
the market. This story is being repeated many times and with India
too, with the recent movement of our once massive IT development
industry to India. The US people want cheap goods, the companies want
fast profits for shareholders, but neither realizes the adage
"throwing out the baby with the bathwater". At some point China makes
chumbalones out of the US (to use a common Chicago term for a patsy).
At some point we need to get access to their market and they need to
properly value their currency, if that wont happen soon then we are in
trouble, because the typical MBA running companies today has no long
term outlook.

Bottom line: Millions of American consumers benefit. These consumers can
then use the money they saved to improve their quality of life (i.e., more
beer).

Like the "Pass this bill.... NOW!" which bill hadn't been
written?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RickH" wrote in message
...

Obama took no stand on events in Egypt, Iran, or Syria. He
refused Taiwan's
request for military upgrades of its fighter force. He's
shown impotence
against the Horn of Africa pirates. He's dissed Israel at
every opportunity.
He sat on trade agreements with Columbia, Panama, and Peru
(?) for three
years.

This latter has devastated our wheat exports.

No, foreign policy is not Obama's strong suit.


Dont forget that he presented no budget either.