I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Are there any national statistics on this?

Thanks.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

In article ,
Jonathan Grobe wrote:

I have a plan to spam usenet by asking lame questions and putting
my website in my sig.

Suggestions?

Sure. Don't do it.

Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Are there any national statistics on this?

Thanks.

How much it draws is written on the label.
Or you could time the electric meter going around.
Hook a 220V clock across the heating element.
The clock runs only when the heater is on.
Have an electrician do it. House wiring is
unsafe....my lawyer made me say that...
'cause it's true.

Depending on the age of the water heater,
there's an "energy guide" sticker on it that shows the range
of usage for that type of appliance. If not,
go visit a water heater store and read some labels
there.

All electric water heaters use the same amount of energy
to heat the same amount of water. Differences are in
how much energy is lost thru less-than-perfect insulation.

I just went thru that procedure using a current
clamp and a computer. I can tell you exactly
how much my water heater is costing me.
A shower costs me 16.5 cents.
But...I only have one option.
USE LESS HOT WATER.
And I don't need ANY measurements to tell me that.

On 16 Jul 2010 05:29:24 GMT, Jonathan Grobe
wrote:

I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Turn it off for a day..

If you have low flow shower heads, you should be able to coast thru
the day on one tank..

At day break the next morning.. Read your electric meter to 10th's of
kwh and the turn the HW back on.. The meter should spin like a top
until it reaches temp (less than a hour).. Re-read the electric
meter..

Then add in 2 or 3 kwh to that figure compensate for not maintaining a
constant temp during the day. (Warmer tanks loose more thermal energy
to their surroundings)..

Variations of this method can be used to measure HW energy usage to
dish washer and washing machine.

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Just keeping a wrapped HW @ temp with no usage consumes 2 to 3kwh per
day..

I now turn on HW for just a few minutes to warm up enough water for
the task at hand... shower.. 8-14 minutes(depending on season) .. Dish
Washer (15 minutes).. Laundry. 25 minutes for 4 to 5
warm(wash)/cold(rinse) loads for my front loader washing machine.

note: This technique significantly extends the life span of the HW..

Are there any national statistics on this?

It's going to vary based on local climate and incoming water temp,
etc..

P.S. I live in a hot climate..

Thanks.

http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/waterheating.htm
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/consumer...r_heating.html

On Jul 16, 12:29*am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Are there any national statistics on this?

Thanks.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books *
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:http://www.grobebooks.com

Shut it off for a day or as many as you can and monitor the meter,
where I am and for most of the country electricity is more than double
the cost of Ng

mike wrote:

Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

-snip-

All electric water heaters use the same amount of energy
to heat the same amount of water. Differences are in
how much energy is lost thru less-than-perfect insulation.

And the temp differential in the room, and usage. . .

I just went thru that procedure using a current
clamp and a computer. I can tell you exactly
how much my water heater is costing me.

I think that's what the OP is asking. Tell us more about your
current clamp & computer setup.

Jim

electric usage is largely dependent on hot water usage... standby
losses of newer tanks is very low, and yours should have a brite
yellow energy label on it.... detailing normal consumption...

beyond that why do you want to know?

someone trying to sell you a tankless? you believe your tank is
running up your electric bill?

what other electric power hungry appliances do you have? electric
dryer? electric stove? AC, espically window units///

I had a neighbor once tear out his seldom used electric pole light,
and replace it with a gas one in a attempt to cut his electric bill.

I tried to tell him the problem was his electric dryer that ran
constantly he was carrying for his elderly mom.stem emnated constantly
from the dryer vent...

no he believed it was his pole light that was hardely ever on. and
refused to believe a gas dryer would cost less to operate than
electric.....

so whats up with you?

On Jul 16, 2:19*am, mike wrote:
Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Are there any national statistics on this?

Thanks.

How much it draws is written on the label.
Or you could time the electric meter going around.
Hook a 220V clock across the heating element.
The clock runs only when the heater is on.
Have an electrician do it. *House wiring is
unsafe....my lawyer made me say that...
'cause it's true.

Depending on the age of the water heater,
there's an "energy guide" sticker on it that shows the range
of usage for that type of appliance. *If not,
go visit a water heater store and read some labels
there.

All electric water heaters use the same amount of energy
to heat the same amount of water. *Differences are in
how much energy is lost thru less-than-perfect insulation.

I just went thru that procedure using a current
clamp and a computer. *I can tell you exactly
how much my water heater is costing me.
A shower costs me 16.5 cents.
But...I only have one option.
USE LESS HOT WATER.
And I don't need ANY measurements to tell me that.

How about 2 identical 110v clocks in series...or a neutral and one of
the 220 wires to the elements?
....and remember you don't NEED to heat HOT water! (someone had to say
it)

On 2010-07-16, wrote:

so whats up with you?

In future years I expect massive energy costs increases as
well as a substantial decline in my income. So I want to cut
energy use substantially.
Right now I am trying to find out exactly how much energy each
appliance, etc is using. If I know how much it is using I can
evaluate alternatives.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

"Jonathan Grobe" wrote in message
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Are there any national statistics on this?


Generally an electric water heater is 30% of the electric bill. It takes a
LOT of energy to heat water. And this is a good place to save on the
electric bill.

If you have city chlorinated water*, you can get a water heater timer. Turn
it on in the mornings for your showers, then off the rest of the day. You
will have hot water for your shower, then residual warm water for hand and
dish washing. This can reduce your electric bill quite a bit!

Skip showers if not necessary like weekends and in winter.

Wash clothes in cold water.

*Non-chlorinated water can grow bacteria if warm.

Water heater timer...
http://www.rewci.com/inehwaheti24.html

On Jul 16, 9:56*am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
On 2010-07-16, wrote:



so whats up with you?

In future years I expect massive energy costs increases as
well as a substantial decline in my income. So I want to cut
energy use substantially.
Right now I am trying to find out exactly how much energy each
appliance, etc is using. If I know how much it is using I can
evaluate alternatives.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books *
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:http://www.grobebooks.com

Then junk the electric and go gas if you can for everything. If you
really want a better idea compare everything by BTUs and cost, you can
figure a conversion cost of BTUs for electric and gas, I am maybe 60%
more per BTU for electric and electricity will always be more than
gas, Now in this heat alot of my electric come from Ng powered
substations.

On 2010-07-16, ransley wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:56*am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:

In future years I expect massive energy costs increases as
well as a substantial decline in my income. So I want to cut
energy use substantially.
Right now I am trying to find out exactly how much energy each
appliance, etc is using. If I know how much it is using I can
evaluate alternatives.

Then junk the electric and go gas if you can for everything. If you
really want a better idea compare everything by BTUs and cost, you can
figure a conversion cost of BTUs for electric and gas, I am maybe 60%
more per BTU for electric and electricity will always be more than
gas, Now in this heat alot of my electric come from Ng powered
substations.

I don't have natural gas available; only propane--which is
substantially higher price than natural gas. And if I get propane
part of the energy is going up the chimney. So it's not that
clearcut like it is for natural gas.

But I have been thinking of propane tankless, solar powered and electric
heat pump as alternatives. But they all depend on exactly how much
money they would save vs how much they would cost.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

In article ,
Jonathan Grobe wrote:

On 2010-07-16, wrote:

so whats up with you?

In future years I expect massive energy costs increases as
well as a substantial decline in my income. So I want to cut
energy use substantially.
Right now I am trying to find out exactly how much energy each
appliance, etc is using. If I know how much it is using I can
evaluate alternatives.

Get some therapy to deal with your pessimism, and install a home-brew
solar water heating system. It's an easy, inexpensive, effective way to
use the sun's energy efficiently, doing what it does all by itself: warm
things up.

On Jul 16, 11:21*am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
On 2010-07-16, ransley wrote:

On Jul 16, 9:56*am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:

In future years I expect massive energy costs increases as
well as a substantial decline in my income. So I want to cut
energy use substantially.
Right now I am trying to find out exactly how much energy each
appliance, etc is using. If I know how much it is using I can
evaluate alternatives.

Then junk the electric and go gas if you can for everything. If you
really want a better idea compare everything by BTUs and cost, you can
figure a conversion cost of BTUs for electric and gas, I am maybe 60%
more per BTU for electric and electricity will always be more than
gas, Now in this heat alot of my electric come from Ng powered
substations.

I don't have natural gas available; only propane--which is
substantially higher price than natural gas. And if I get propane
part of the energy is going up the chimney. So it's not that
clearcut like it is for natural gas.

Huh? It's easy to compare natural gas and propane prices. The
appliances are the same with (usually) just a orifice change. The
energy usage is the same.

But I have been thinking of propane tankless, solar powered and electric
heat pump as alternatives. But they all depend on exactly how *much
money they would save vs how much they would cost.

It won't be cheaper to convert today.

Bill wrote:

*Non-chlorinated water can grow bacteria if warm.


Chlorinated water can grow bacteria when warm. That's why you should never
consume water from the water heater.

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.home.repair.]

Chlorinated water can grow bacteria when warm. That's why you should never
consume water from the water heater.

Cite!

nb

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 03:44:12 -0700, ransley wrote:

On Jul 16, 12:29*am, Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

Suggestions?

Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?

Are there any national statistics on this?

Thanks.

--
Jonathan Grobe Books *
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:http://www.grobebooks.com

Shut it off for a day or as many as you can and monitor the meter,
where I am and for most of the country electricity is more than double
the cost of Ng

Here on the west coast we pay only 6cent/kwh vs triple that on the east so
NG and Electric are approx the same price per btu. The OP would be much
further ahead upgrading his building envelope to KEEP the HEAT in or COLD
if he lives in a warm climate. I reduced my heating costs from $1200 to
$300 per year with new furnace, windows, air sealing, insulation etc. He
may also want to consider localized mini HW heaters near the kitchen and
main bathroom

In article ,
mart wrote:

Here on the west coast we pay only 6cent/kwh

The west coast is a big place. My most recent bill on the west coast is
showing 274 kWh for $38.24. That makes it pretty close to 14 cents/kWh.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:56:09 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
mart wrote:

Here on the west coast we pay only 6cent/kwh

The west coast is a big place. My most recent bill on the west coast is
showing 274 kWh for $38.24. That makes it pretty close to 14 cents/kWh.

Seems like the highest rate in California approaches a quarter.
[Fresno, if I remember right]

Had to check-- Fresno is right
http://www.greenfresno.org/profiles/...us-electricity

1000kwh cost $241-- the top rate is $0.4739 after 1070kwh.

Good thing nobody needs A/C in CA.

Jim

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Good thing nobody needs A/C in CA.

I assume you're joking. In Santa Barbara, it's 70 in the winter and 75
in the summer. But the central valley is scorching. G.F. and I have a
house where she lives an hour north of Fresno, and it's 100-110 many
days. Dry, though, which makes a big difference.

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:38:04 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Good thing nobody needs A/C in CA.

I assume you're joking. In Santa Barbara, it's 70 in the winter and 75
in the summer. But the central valley is scorching. G.F. and I have a
house where she lives an hour north of Fresno, and it's 100-110 many
days. Dry, though, which makes a big difference.

I was joking- I spent the winter in San Diego in 69. And the month
of May at Camp Pendleton. Was damn glad to get out of California
before summer. [of course I went to a warmer climate yet-- but that's
beside the point.g]

Jim

Bob Villa wrote:
On Jul 16, 2:19 am, mike wrote:
Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.
Suggestions?
Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?
Are there any national statistics on this?
Thanks.
How much it draws is written on the label.
Or you could time the electric meter going around.
Hook a 220V clock across the heating element.
The clock runs only when the heater is on.
Have an electrician do it. House wiring is
unsafe....my lawyer made me say that...
'cause it's true.

Depending on the age of the water heater,
there's an "energy guide" sticker on it that shows the range
of usage for that type of appliance. If not,
go visit a water heater store and read some labels
there.

All electric water heaters use the same amount of energy
to heat the same amount of water. Differences are in
how much energy is lost thru less-than-perfect insulation.

I just went thru that procedure using a current
clamp and a computer. I can tell you exactly
how much my water heater is costing me.
A shower costs me 16.5 cents.
But...I only have one option.
USE LESS HOT WATER.
And I don't need ANY measurements to tell me that.

How about 2 identical 110v clocks in series...or a neutral and one of
the 220 wires to the elements?

I don't think my water heater has a neutral wire???
running it to ground would work, unless you have GFI or let an inspector
anywhere near it.

Safer would be a resistor or a transformer off the 240V.

...and remember you don't NEED to heat HOT water! (someone had to say
it)

Speak for yourself!!!
I NEED hot water.

On Jul 18, 4:05*pm, mike wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Jul 16, 2:19 am, mike wrote:
Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.
Suggestions?
Has anyone here done this? What results did you find?
Are there any national statistics on this?
Thanks.
How much it draws is written on the label.
Or you could time the electric meter going around.
Hook a 220V clock across the heating element.
The clock runs only when the heater is on.
Have an electrician do it. *House wiring is
unsafe....my lawyer made me say that...
'cause it's true.

Depending on the age of the water heater,
there's an "energy guide" sticker on it that shows the range
of usage for that type of appliance. *If not,
go visit a water heater store and read some labels
there.

All electric water heaters use the same amount of energy
to heat the same amount of water. *Differences are in
how much energy is lost thru less-than-perfect insulation.

I just went thru that procedure using a current
clamp and a computer. *I can tell you exactly
how much my water heater is costing me.
A shower costs me 16.5 cents.
But...I only have one option.
USE LESS HOT WATER.
And I don't need ANY measurements to tell me that.

How about 2 identical 110v clocks in series...or a neutral and one of
the 220 wires to the elements?

I don't think my water heater has a neutral wire???
running it to ground would work, unless you have GFI or let an inspector
anywhere near it.

Safer would be a resistor or a transformer off the 240V.

...and remember you don't NEED to heat HOT water! (someone had to say
it)

Speak for yourself!!!
I NEED hot water.

You don't NEED hot water...if it's HOT!

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
mike wrote:

Jonathan Grobe wrote:
I have a traditional 220 volt electric hot water heater and would
like to estimate or measure how much electricity it is using.

-snip-
All electric water heaters use the same amount of energy
to heat the same amount of water. Differences are in
how much energy is lost thru less-than-perfect insulation.

And the temp differential in the room, and usage. . .
I just went thru that procedure using a current
clamp and a computer. I can tell you exactly
how much my water heater is costing me.

I think that's what the OP is asking. Tell us more about your
current clamp & computer setup.

Jim
If you buy a current generation current probe, they're typically
1mv/amp. Maybe usable for a water heater, but I wanted something more
sensitive.
The Triplet model 10 current clamp is designed to hook onto a 50
year old analog meter. It puts out 3VAC full scale from as little as 6amps.
And it doesn't need a battery.
Plug that into a Radio Shack DVM with RS-232 output.
Then it's just a matter of a simple visual basic program to
read the meter and log/graph/analyze the data.

It worked, so I intended to build a second generation using a
pic processor and bluetooth transceiver and do the acquisition
and analysis on a PDA. But then I realized that the data wasn't
much use anyway. What I needed was to use less hot water.
Didn't need any data for that conclusion.

I did need a way to measure consumption from things that I couldn't
easily get at. Air conditioner is the most obvious. Power factor
is an issue.
So, I sidestepped the whole issue and went straight to the source.
The power company meter on the wall puts out an infrared pulse
for every watt-hour consumed.

Turns out that the older PalmIII PDA's PALMOS 3.5 will let you trick
them into
reading that pulse thru their IR port. And there's a trialware basic
interpreter
available for free. It has limitations, but works great for this.

So, go to Walmart and buy a yummy single slice of cake.
It comes in a plastic container that's a press fit over the power meter.
Stick in the PDA, press it onto the meter and log yourself silly.
You're gonna have to use bigger batteries in/on the pda to get
sufficient run time.

With a little experience, it's easy to distinguish the signature
of the water heater, air conditioner, microwave, stove etc.

NO power factor issues or accuracy issues. You're measuring
EXACTLY what the power company is billing you for.

For about $25 on ebay, you can buy a "blue line innovations"
wireless remote reading power monitor that will also work with the
old-style power meters with the wheel that goes round and round.
They work well, but only accumulate total consumption.

I also wanted to monitor the air conditioner without a lot of
post-processing of data.
The same pda and almost the same program can be used with a
wind-vane/microswitch into the serial port to sense when the fan
is running. That's pretty close to the on-time of the compressor.
Also works with a gas heater.
That did supply some useful information that led to shading the front of
the house on hot afternoons and reducing electricity consumption
by about a third. My front door is no longer 185 degrees.

While I've got your attention, I'm interested in ideas on how to
reduce the attic temperature from 136 degrees. I tried blowing
air up into the attic with a 15" fan, but it hardly put a dent
in the temperature.
The math suggests that the insolation is pushing over 100KW into the attic.
A fan to push out that much heat costs more to run than the improvement
in air conditioner efficiency saves...according to the back of this
here envelope.
Ideas?

mike

Astounding. Has anyone lampooned the OP for wanting to heat hot water?
I don't remember seeing it yet, in this thread.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Jul 20, 8:16*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Astounding. Has anyone lampooned the OP for wanting to heat hot water?
I don't remember seeing it yet, in this thread.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

You haven't looked nearly hard enough!

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Astounding. Has anyone lampooned the OP for wanting to heat hot water?
I don't remember seeing it yet, in this thread.

IIRC, someone tried to, but it whooshed right over the OP's head.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:16:34 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

Astounding. Has anyone lampooned the OP for wanting to heat hot water?
I don't remember seeing it yet, in this thread.

IIRC, someone tried to, but it whooshed right over the OP's head.

Or he was just ignoring the pedants who think they are so clever. I
don't stop heating my water when it gets hot. I heat it another 10
degrees or so. A friend heats his 30-40 degrees past hot.

Jim