I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time is
just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying to
take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am looking
to either add an additional water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the size of the one. My question is about energy usage.
I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual energy
estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to $450.
Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the 50
gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820 to
$850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy just one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe

On Jan 21, 7:19�pm, "AlaJoe" wrote:
� � I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time is
just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying to
take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am looking
to either add an additional water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the size of the one. My question is about energy usage.
� � I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual energy
estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to $450.
Does this mean if �I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the 50
gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820 to
$850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy just one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
� � Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe

a second tank will nearly double costs.

do you have natural gas propane or heating oil available at your home?

how big is your service entrance? 200 amps?

If you MUST stick with electric and are willing to spend the bucks add
a high capacity electric tankless in series with and immediately
before the regular electric tank.

It bwouldnt cost any more to heat your water but give you much greater
capacity.

however how old is your existing electric tank? did it ever do the
job? live where incoming water temp is very low given deep freeze
country is currentlyn in.

you could have a sediment filled tank, a bad heater, or incoming water
temp may be lower than normal.

On Jan 21, 6:19*pm, "AlaJoe" wrote:
* * I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time is
just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying to
take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am looking
to either add an additional water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the size of the one. My question is about energy usage.
* * I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual energy
estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to $450.
Does this mean if *I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the 50
gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820 to
$850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy just one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
* * Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe

Try to turn up the thermostat , or Bubba has a real answer.

"AlaJoe" wrote in message
...
I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time
is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying
to take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am
looking to either add an additional water heater and split off one
bathroom or increase the size of the one. My question is about energy
usage.
I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to
$450. Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the
50 gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820
to $850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy
just one 80 gallon and only spend about $450?
Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe


I'd consider other methods. What kind of heat do you have? You can buy
propane water heaters. If you have hot water heat you can buy indirect
fired water heaters with first hour draw of 200 gallons.

Two 40 gallon heaters will take more to operate than one 80 gallon. You have
more surface area on the tanks to lose heat.

Also. check the water flow. There are some shower heads that give a very
good shower with less water than the old spray heads. If you have an old
style, you can cut water use 50% with no loss of comfort.
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop...hedon/ds2c.htm

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:19:33 -0600, "AlaJoe"
wrote:

I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time is
just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying to
take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am looking
to either add an additional water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the size of the one. My question is about energy usage.
I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual energy
estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to $450.
Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the 50
gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820 to
$850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy just one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe

I think the annual energy cost estimates are based on an estimate of
the average amount of water used by a family of four at some average
fuel cost.

You can find info on estimating cost more accurately he

http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consume.../mytopic=13010

Having two tanks won't double your cost if your water usage remains
the same. You will still be heating the same amount of water. Two
tanks will cost more, because the standby loss (energy required to
keep the water at temp when it is not being used) will be about
double, but standby loss is around 15-20% of total energy usage, so
your total cost won't double. Standby loss for electric heaters is
less than for gas because there's no flue running up the middle.

But before you do something drastic, look at, or have a plumber look
at, the simple stuff. Is the tank full of sediment? Is one element
burned out? (a common cause of low recovery rate) Is the dip tube OK?
Do you have low flow shower heads?

50 gallons is usually OK for 3 people.

HTH,

Paul F.

Your problem is not with your water heater size.

Assume for a moment that you have a shower head rated at 2.5 GPM and you
were using only hot water.

You would get 20 solid minutes of hot water assuming that there wasn't any
recovery during the shower.

That would give you almost 3 7 minute showers.

If you add in a little cold water to get the temperature right, have some
recovery, and have a little lag time between the showers the last person in
should not run out of hot water.

You could have several common problems. First you may have a half a tank of
sediment. Especially in areas of hard water you need to flush out the
sediment once a year.

Another problem might be a burned out heater element, or both of the above.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.

"AlaJoe" wrote in message
...
I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time
is
just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying to
take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am looking
to either add an additional water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the size of the one. My question is about energy usage.
I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy
estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to $450.
Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the 50
gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820 to
$850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy just
one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe

AlaJoe wrote:
I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting
the job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the
recovery time is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and
,myself are trying to take showers within one hour and it just will
not keep up. So I am looking to either add an additional water heater
and split off one bathroom or increase the size of the one. My
question is about energy usage. I have looked at 30-80 gallon
heaters and there does not appear to be much difference in energy usage.
The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about
$440 to $450. Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in
addition to the 50 gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I
will spend about $820 to $850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water
heated to where I could buy just one 80 gallon and only spend about
$450? Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back
showers? Which set up would work best?


A low-flow shower head uses, on average, FOUR gallons of water per shower.
Assuming that's half-hot, half-cold, your 50 gallon water heater should be
sufficient for 25 back-to-back showers!

I suspect that whatever it is that's amiss, it's not the capacity of your
water heater. You may be trying to solve the wrong problem.

On Jan 21, 11:47�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
AlaJoe wrote:
� �I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting
the job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the
recovery time is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and
,myself are trying to take showers within one hour and it just will
not keep up. So I am looking to either add an additional water heater
and split off one bathroom or increase the size of the one. My
� �question is about energy usage. I have looked at 30-80 gallon
heaters and there does not appear to be much difference in energy usage..
The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about
$440 to $450. Does this mean if �I add a 30 gallon water heater in
addition to the 50 gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I
will spend about $820 to $850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water
heated to where I could buy just one 80 gallon and only spend about
� �$450? Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back
showers? Which set up would work best?

A low-flow shower head uses, on average, FOUR gallons of water per shower..
Assuming that's half-hot, half-cold, your 50 gallon water heater should be
sufficient for 25 back-to-back showers!

I suspect that whatever it is that's amiss, it's not the capacity of your
water heater. You may be trying to solve the wrong problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What a low flow head and 2 minute shower?

My showers agerage 5 minutes, flow restrictor removed

"AlaJoe" wrote in message
...
I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time
is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying
to take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am
looking to either add an additional water heater and split off one
bathroom or increase the size of the one. My question is about energy
usage.
I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to
$450. Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the
50 gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820
to $850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy
just one 80 gallon and only spend about $450?
Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?


*Instead of adding a second tank you should get a water heater with a faster
recovery rate. What is the wattage ratings of your water heater elements?
It should say on the nameplate. A 4500 watt element will heat a lot faster
than a 3000 watt element. I would call the manufacturer to see if the
existing tank can be upgraded with different elements. Of course your
electrical supply will need to be sized accordingly. I am assuming that
your current water heater is operating correctly. You could have the slow
recovery problem with one element not working.

I got a call from a new condo owner last year. She had recently replaced the
electric water heater and the new one kept blowing the circuit breaker. It
was a 50 gallon unit with 3500 watt elements. The original tank was a 50
gallon on a 15 amp circuit. I surmised that the builder installed low
wattage units to save energy as these condos are on a time of day electric
service where the day rate is much higher than the night rate. I had to
install a 30 amp circuit for her new water heater. It probably took a long
time for the old water heater to get fully heated, but with one occupant the
hot water loss was acceptable.

On Jan 21, 10:47*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
AlaJoe wrote:
* *I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting
the job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the
recovery time is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and
,myself are trying to take showers within one hour and it just will
not keep up. So I am looking to either add an additional water heater
and split off one bathroom or increase the size of the one. My
* *question is about energy usage. I have looked at 30-80 gallon
heaters and there does not appear to be much difference in energy usage..
The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about
$440 to $450. Does this mean if *I add a 30 gallon water heater in
addition to the 50 gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I
will spend about $820 to $850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water
heated to where I could buy just one 80 gallon and only spend about
* *$450? Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back
showers? Which set up would work best?

A low-flow shower head uses, on average, FOUR gallons of water per shower..
Assuming that's half-hot, half-cold, your 50 gallon water heater should be
sufficient for 25 back-to-back showers!

I suspect that whatever it is that's amiss, it's not the capacity of your
water heater. You may be trying to solve the wrong problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Low flow is 1.6, 4gpm is full flow

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:19:33 -0600, AlaJoe wrote:

I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery
time is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are
trying to take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up.
{snip}

Your upper heating element is burned out. Replace it.

I think others may suggest you replace both, since it is a major *PAIN*
to drain and unbolt the heating element, run around town to find a
replacement, re-install, and then refill HW tank and bleed air out of
pipes.

(I presume at one time the recovery water heating was satisfactory, and
now it is a much slower recovery.)

On Jan 22, 9:09*am, Phil Again wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:19:33 -0600, AlaJoe wrote:
I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery
time is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are
trying to take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up.
{snip}

Your upper heating element is burned out. *Replace it.

I think others may suggest you replace both, since it is a major *PAIN*
to drain and unbolt the heating element, run around town to find a
replacement, re-install, and then refill HW tank and bleed air out of
pipes.

(I presume at one time the recovery water heating was satisfactory, and
now it is a much slower recovery.)

A fairly easy way to check if you have a bad heating element is to use
a digital multi-meter. An analog multi-meter would work as well too.
Then check for resistance on each heating element using the ohm
selection on your multimeter. Of course you need to have the
electrical power off before you do this test. A low ohm reading 50
equals good. A high ohm reading indicates an open circuit and you
have found your problem. Disclaimer: Be aware I am not an
electrician and I am not recommending you do this, and especially if
you have little to none electrical knowledge or experience.
Steve

AlaJoe wrote:

I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting the
job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the recovery time is
just too long between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself are trying to
take showers within one hour and it just will not keep up. So I am looking
to either add an additional water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the size of the one. My question is about energy usage.
I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and there does not appear to be
much difference in energy usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual energy
estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440 to $450.
Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in addition to the 50
gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I will spend about $820 to
$850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy just one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back showers?
Which set up would work best?

Joe

In addition to what everyone else said about replacing the probable
burned out element, flushing sediment, checking for a broken dip tube,
etc. another trick to boost capacity is to add a tempering valve to the
output of the water heater and set the water heater temp a little higher
which effectively increases the volume of 120 degree water available.

On Jan 21, 7:19?pm, "AlaJoe"
wrote:
? ? I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater
that is
just not getting the job done. One person can
shower as
long as he wants but the recovery time is just
too long
between users and My wife, My kid and ,myself
are trying
to take showers within one hour and it just
will not
keep up. So I am looking to either add an
additional
water heater and split off one bathroom or
increase the
size of the one. My question is about energy
usage.
? ? I have looked at 30-80 gallon heaters and
there does
not appear to be much difference in energy
usage. The 30
Gallons heater have an annual energy estimate
of about
$405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about $440
to $450.
Does this mean if ?I add a 30 gallon water
heater in
addition to the 50 gallon I already have to
seperate one
bathroom I will spend about $820 to $850 a year
to keep
80 gallons of water heated to where I could buy
just one
80 gallon and only spend about $450?
? ? Would one 80 gallon allow three people to
take back
to back showers? Which set up would work best?

Joe

a second tank will nearly double costs.

do you have natural gas propane or heating oil
available
at your home?

how big is your service entrance? 200 amps?

With that long a recovery time, wouldn't it be
more likely there is a burned out element? It
probably just needs replacement.

Personally I wouldn't see two water heaters; it's
too expensive. Electric ones are slower to
recover, but not that slow. If it turns out to
not be an element problem, then perhaps change it
out for the 80 gallon, but for a household of what
looks like 3, even a 50 gallon is more than enough
in most instances.

Aside: We have a 30 gallon fuel-oil fired water
heater, and it's never run out of hot water for
showers, even when our two teens lived with us.
It can recover almost as fast as you use it. It's
also 30 years old and just shot another rod, so
.... I'm in the market for another one, but they
are scarce to purchase anymore.

Twayne

ransley wrote:
On Jan 21, 10:47 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
AlaJoe wrote:
I have a 50 Gallon electric water heater that is just not getting
the job done. One person can shower as long as he wants but the
recovery time is just too long between users and My wife, My kid and
,myself are trying to take showers within one hour and it just will
not keep up. So I am looking to either add an additional water
heater and split off one bathroom or increase the size of the one.
My
question is about energy usage. I have looked at 30-80 gallon
heaters and there does not appear to be much difference in energy
usage. The 30 Gallons heater have an annual
energy estimate of about $405 to $410 and 80 gallon heaters about
$440 to $450. Does this mean if I add a 30 gallon water heater in
addition to the 50 gallon I already have to seperate one bathroom I
will spend about $820 to $850 a year to keep 80 gallons of water
heated to where I could buy just one 80 gallon and only spend about
$450? Would one 80 gallon allow three people to take back to back
showers? Which set up would work best?

A low-flow shower head uses, on average, FOUR gallons of water per
shower. Assuming that's half-hot, half-cold, your 50 gallon water
heater should be sufficient for 25 back-to-back showers!

I suspect that whatever it is that's amiss, it's not the capacity of
your water heater. You may be trying to solve the wrong problem.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Low flow is 1.6, 4gpm is full flow

Right. It's about a three-minute shower.

The trick is to take note of the dirty bits before you turn on the water.