I recently moved into a home that has a new Whirlpool Energy Smart
water heater that uses the little computer control box and is claimed
to save electricty.

http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com...ectric_how.php

This water heater is also hooked up to a timer. The previous owner had
the control set to "Smart" in which case the water heater operates like
a conventional unit and also had it on a timer.


I am under the impression that a timer on a water heater this new is of
little use and that it will also interfear (sp?) with the operation of
the Energy Smart circuit. I am thinking that setting the control to
"Energy Smart " mode and not useing the timer would be a more
economical choice.

Should I disconnect the timer and let the energy smart circuit do it's
job or can they both be used together?

"Clearfield Consumer" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently moved into a home that has a new Whirlpool Energy Smart
water heater that uses the little computer control box and is claimed
to save electricty.

http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com...ectric_how.php

This water heater is also hooked up to a timer. The previous owner had
the control set to "Smart" in which case the water heater operates like
a conventional unit and also had it on a timer.


I am under the impression that a timer on a water heater this new is of
little use and that it will also interfear (sp?) with the operation of
the Energy Smart circuit. I am thinking that setting the control to
"Energy Smart " mode and not useing the timer would be a more
economical choice.

Should I disconnect the timer and let the energy smart circuit do it's
job or can they both be used together?


Canning the timer would be my vote as well. Why get in the way of the
built-in optimizer. It's just a guess but I'm guessing that the timer was
installed with an older tank in place. With the new tank's built-in Smart
Circuit the timer is an unnecessary dinosaur.

"Clearfield Consumer" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently moved into a home that has a new Whirlpool Energy Smart
water heater that uses the little computer control box and is claimed
to save electricty.

http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com...ectric_how.php

This water heater is also hooked up to a timer. The previous owner had
the control set to "Smart" in which case the water heater operates like
a conventional unit and also had it on a timer.


I am under the impression that a timer on a water heater this new is of
little use and that it will also interfear (sp?) with the operation of
the Energy Smart circuit. I am thinking that setting the control to
"Energy Smart " mode and not useing the timer would be a more
economical choice.

Should I disconnect the timer and let the energy smart circuit do it's
job or can they both be used together?


FYI the tanks that are branded with the Whirlpool TM are made by
US/Craftmaster. Having warranted two of the early runs of the control your
water heater (two different tanks) uses IMO you'll be better served by
disabling the timer control. The control monitors the tank temperature with
a thermister adjusting the element use in an effort to save energy.
Switching the power on and off to a solid state control "could" shorten the
life of the control while serving little practical savings.

All my dealings with US/Craftmaster's customer service in their Johnson City
Tennessee service center has been quick and responsive. They handle tank
problems by issuing a service request number that you take to Lowes along
with the water heater and do a simple exchange. For DYIs the programs and
call center they have in place are likely second to none.

Clearfield Consumer wrote:
I recently moved into a home that has a new Whirlpool Energy Smart
water heater that uses the little computer control box and is claimed
to save electricty.

http://www.whirlpoolwaterheaters.com...ectric_how.php

This water heater is also hooked up to a timer. The previous owner had
the control set to "Smart" in which case the water heater operates like
a conventional unit and also had it on a timer.


I am under the impression that a timer on a water heater this new is of
little use and that it will also interfear (sp?) with the operation of
the Energy Smart circuit. I am thinking that setting the control to
"Energy Smart " mode and not useing the timer would be a more
economical choice.

Should I disconnect the timer and let the energy smart circuit do it's
job or can they both be used together?


Do you have OFF PEAK or TIME of DAY or PEAK DEMAD type of electric
service?

These services charge less for electricity depending upon when you use
it. If you have this kind of service, the timer may work to keep the
water heater off during the "expensive" parts of the day....

Mark

Thanks for the replies.

While I do have "Time Of Day" service, someone in another group
mentioned that the water heaters Smart control unit "learns" to adapt
to useage and the timer may be interfering with it's ability to do that
as everytime it cuts power to the water heater it's also cutting power
to the smart unit and it will thus reset and have to relearn usage each
day and it may never be able to do that properly with the constant
power on/power off cycling which sounds logical to me so I disconnected
it this morning. I'm assuming that letting it go about it's business as
designed will save me as much or more as my TOD rate, yes?

Clearfield Consumer wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

While I do have "Time Of Day" service, someone in another group
mentioned that the water heaters Smart control unit "learns" to adapt
to useage and the timer may be interfering with it's ability to do that
as everytime it cuts power to the water heater it's also cutting power
to the smart unit and it will thus reset and have to relearn usage each
day and it may never be able to do that properly with the constant
power on/power off cycling which sounds logical to me so I disconnected
it this morning. I'm assuming that letting it go about it's business as
designed will save me as much or more as my TOD rate, yes?

I don't know. Try it and make sure the heater does NOT come on
during the expensive time of day. If it does, you will defintly be
loosing money.


How can the "smart control unit" know when your electic rate
changes...Do you have to program that information into it?

Mark

My dad has TOD service in phoenix, he says the commands come from the
power company over the lines. so times can change occasionally.

Clearfield Consumer wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

While I do have "Time Of Day" service, someone in another group
mentioned that the water heaters Smart control unit "learns" to adapt
to useage and the timer may be interfering with it's ability to do that

The "smart" control algorithm is on the webpage you linked:

"Every time the lower element is energized the controls lower the water
temperature by three-tenths of one degree, but never lower than 115°F.
Every time the upper element is energized the controls raise the water
temperature by three degrees, but never above the temperature set by the
user."

Basically it keeps the water temp between 115 and whatever temperature
is set by the user, at a temperature that is as low as possible while
still supplying enough hot water.

I'd guess you'd be better off keeping the heater off during the
expensive part of the day.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from trying it for a few months,
then switching it back the other way and comparing your power usage.

Chris

Jim Baber wrote:
If your Time Of Day peak vs off peak rates are like mine, where the
wintertime rates do not vary much from peak ($0.114720/kWh) to off
peak ($0.08966/kWh), it won't matter much. BUT, come summertime my
rates jump drastically, with a peak of ($0.29372/kWh) and off peak of
($0.08664/kWh) at the lowest usage tier (under 17 kWh a day).

I do NOT fit in the lowest tier since I averaged 81 kWh a day from
June 15 through September 15. I would have used 30 kWh of the very
costly Tier 5 power which is at peak of ($0.51031/kWh) and off peak
($0.30323/kWh). I also would have used a lot more in the less but
still exorbitant Tier 2 through Tier 4 groups of rates that would also
apply to some of my 81 kWh between my best and worst summer rates.

TOD rates don't apply on weekends and that helps.

In my own situation I have my own 10 kW solar system that helps a lot,
and generally covers all of my power bill except for a fixed daily
meter and connection fee to stay hooked up to the power.

It does not generate all of the power we use, but because it does
produce most of it's power during the peak time of the TOD billing
rates it does generate far more than it's actual $ value as far as
credit towards the bill. See "www.baber.org"

Jim Baber "


Chris Friesen wrote:

Clearfield Consumer wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

While I do have "Time Of Day" service, someone in another group
mentioned that the water heaters Smart control unit "learns" to adapt
to useage and the timer may be interfering with it's ability to do that


The "smart" control algorithm is on the webpage you linked:

"Every time the lower element is energized the controls lower the water
temperature by three-tenths of one degree, but never lower than 115°F.
Every time the upper element is energized the controls raise the water
temperature by three degrees, but never above the temperature set by the
user."

Basically it keeps the water temp between 115 and whatever temperature
is set by the user, at a temperature that is as low as possible while
still supplying enough hot water.

I'd guess you'd be better off keeping the heater off during the
expensive part of the day.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from trying it for a few months,
then switching it back the other way and comparing your power usage.

Chris