What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order
to lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped
like a Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily
removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I
broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the
crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying
up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold,
for example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to
move the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to
go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a
useless endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ...
may I ask what is the logic in that?

I usually pry up "firmly" on the flywheel on two side (wooden wedges work well),
then tap downward on the end of the shaft (with the nut loosened to be flush
with the crank end). By lifting up, you raise the crankshaft slightly, takeing
up any play. Then when you tap the crankshaft, it applies instantaneous force
way higher than you could ever get by lifting the flywheel. The mass of the
flywheel resists the momentary force, so the crankshaft loosens.

Bob F wrote:


I usually pry up "firmly" on the flywheel on two side (wooden wedges
work well), then tap downward on the end of the shaft (with the nut
loosened to be flush with the crank end). By lifting up, you raise
the crankshaft slightly, takeing up any play. Then when you tap the
crankshaft, it applies instantaneous force way higher than you could
ever get by lifting the flywheel. The mass of the flywheel resists
the momentary force, so the crankshaft loosens.

Yep, that's the way I have always done it as well. They actually sell a
tool that is threaded onto the end of the shaft so that the end of the shaft
is protected from the hammer. In other words, the manufacturer has it as a
recommended procedure.

Jon

On Jul 12, 5:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

The reason a taper joint parts is only partly to do with the direct
mechanical forces. The main reason is that the metal is deformed
momentarily by the shock wave of the hammer blow.

On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

I agree with the others. Even using a puller you still tap the bolt
that is pushing on the crankshaft after you put a little pressure on
it. If it don't loosen, a little more tightening and another rap with
the hammer.

If you broke your manifold, you were using too much leverage in a bad
location. Looking for a place to use leverage is another trick
sometimes.

Now, if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out
of balance. Check balance before re-assembling.

Hank

On Jul 12, 3:56*am, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:





What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

I agree with the others. Even using a puller you still tap the bolt
that is pushing on the crankshaft after you put a little pressure on
it. If it don't loosen, a little more tightening and another rap with
the hammer.

If you broke your manifold, you were using too much leverage in a bad
location. Looking for a place to use leverage is another trick
sometimes.

Now, if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out
of balance. Check balance before re-assembling.

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I use a puller but I also hit the top of the puller a few times after
I have gotten some tension on it. Frees up the flywheel.

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.

On Jul 11, 9:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

I followed that thread and you were given clear, explicit explanations
of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing
the goal.

Harry K

On Jul 11, 11:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

Why were you anywhere near the intake manifold, you should have been
leveraging against the main chassis of the engine!!!

Try it.... has worked for me, for years. Yes, the
crank shaft goes down.

The fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft is a
slow taper. You only have to bump the crankshaft
down 1/8 inch or less, and then the friction fit between
the two shears. And the flywheel lifts off.

I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down
on the flywheel.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"James H." wrote in message
...
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order
to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower
that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then
not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent
flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and
easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller
but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to
bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft
and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake
manifold, for example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft
when you want to move the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt'
going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears,
to me, to be a useless endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the
flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that?

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, James H. wrote:

What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?


They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you
don't mess up the thread at the top. The physic is shock as in an impact
wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less
chance of breaking things. In the plumbing business there is the term
"warming up a pipe joint" when using steel pipe and fittings to loosen
the joint by banging on it when you can't wrench it apart. Same thing
with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a
hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all
interrelated.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

Tradition.

Passed down by generations.

James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

If after everyone answers you for the second time, you will either now
understand, OR you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics. And along with that understanding, you will admit to yourself
that you picked a stupid ass place to pry and your broken intake is your
fault and not due to anyones suggestions here.

On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:
But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

For the answer to this, you only need to look at Newton's laws of
motion.

Newton's first law, an object at rest will tend to stay at rest...
applies to the flywheel. When you smack the crankshaft, the flywheel
will want to tend to stay in place, while the rest of the lawn mower
will go in the direction of your hit.

You are basically knocking the mower out from under the flywheel. Why?
You can't hit the flywheel to knock it off the mower so this is your
only choice.

As for breaking the intake manifold, that's your fault. You should've
looked before prying. Pry on something that isn't the intake manifold.

wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:19 am, "James H."
wrote:
But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the
flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

For the answer to this, you only need to look at Newton's laws
of
motion.

Newton's first law, an object at rest will tend to stay at
rest...
applies to the flywheel. When you smack the crankshaft, the
flywheel
will want to tend to stay in place, while the rest of the lawn
mower
will go in the direction of your hit.

You are basically knocking the mower out from under the
flywheel. Why?
You can't hit the flywheel to knock it off the mower so this is
your
only choice.

As for breaking the intake manifold, that's your fault. You
should've
looked before prying. Pry on something that isn't the intake
manifold.

The tapping also seems to aid the penetration of oil into the
joint, I feel. A flywheel puller is a much safer choice, since
the banging on the crankshaft also places large lateral loads on
the bearings of the engine. Rather than whack with a 3# hand
sledge, I prefer a 22oz ball peen hammer and some penetrating oil
to see if I can get things moving.

Also when tapping on the shaft, I always run the nut up until it's
flush- to just a bit proud- of the shaft end. That helps to keep
the shaft end from swelling or messing up the threads, I feel.

My friend had a wood chipper with a very sturdy, steel, pulley on
the output shaft of his engine. The pulley had to be removed to
do some other work on the engine. I had my flywheel puller on and
tightened about as good as I felt reasonable. I also did the
penetrating oil and tapping on the shaft (via the puller's bolt)
to no avail. Enough was enough.

My friend and I used our Mapp gas torches to heat the pulley for a
few minutes while we dripped some water onto the motor's shaft. I
tapped the end of the shaft lightly, and the pulley came right
off. I doubt if you can do this with a flywheel, but it sure
works with substantial metal stuck to a shaft.

Nonny

--
On most days,
it's just not worth
the effort of chewing
through the restraints..

On Jul 12, 10:57*am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you
don't mess up the thread at the top. The physic is shock as in an impact
wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less
chance of breaking things. In the plumbing business there is the term
"warming up a pipe joint" when using steel pipe and fittings to loosen
the joint by banging on it when you can't wrench it apart. Same thing
with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a
hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all
interrelated.

"Same thing with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen.
Smacking it down on a hard surface loosens it enough that you can then
unscrew it. They are all interrelated."

I dunno...

I always smack the bottom of the jar with the heel of my hand and
listen for the "crack".

It's my understanding that that releases the vacuum that keeps the jar
sealed tight.

I'm guessing that there is no vacuum involved in the removal of a fly-
wheel.

On Jul 12, 5:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

The totally foolproof way is to add a little heat and expand it off.
Whack it when hot.

On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

Should read, "What is the logic of prying against your intake manifold"

And misquoted by some. Mower repairmen don't bang down on the
flywheel.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ...
may I
ask what is the logic in that?

Tradition.

Passed down by generations.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:09:52 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

And misquoted by some. Mower repairmen don't bang down on the
flywheel.

The OP's subject is bangin' his crank. He mis-spoke about the
flywheel.

No one suggested he bang the flywheel

Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hustlin' Hank wrote:

if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out
of balance. Check balance before re-assembling.

The holes in the Briggs and Stratton 3.5 HP engine flywheel are pre-drilled
by the manufacturer. All I needed to do was tap them.

I don't think tapping the two holes (1/4x20) will knock them out of whack;
do you?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.

As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the
two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer
puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever.

End result is:
1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel
2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller
3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.

Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean
I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience
dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP
Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).

So far I've heard that banging down on the flywheel "momentarily deforms"
the crankshaft ... and that ... somehow ... magically? ... allows the
flywheel to pop up on the tapered shaft.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:22:19 -0700 (PDT), hr(bob) wrote:

Why were you anywhere near the intake manifold, you should have been
leveraging against the main chassis of the engine!!!

I understand your concern!

At first, I leveraged UP with the prybar on the aluminum engine, then moved
about 60 degrees and leveraged again (all the while uselessly banging DOWN
on the flywheel puller contraption from ACE on the flywheel).

When I moved the third 60 degrees, I didn't realize it but now I was at the
front of the mower where the carberator and air filter are, which has a
plastic pipe (painted the same color as the aluminum engine) which is the
intake manifold.

In just a split second, the plastic pipe collapsed, along with a bolt which
snapped in half holding it to the opening for the intake valve.

It was exactly at that point where I realized the advice to bang DOWN on
the crankshaft while lifting UP on the flywheel (thereby leveraging DOWN on
the soft engine parts) was sheer folly.

It was only then I started wondering about the logic of it all. Of course,
prying UP makes sense to remove a flywheel ... but what does banging on an
immovable crankshaft going to do?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:55:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yes, the crank shaft goes down.
I wonder WHERE it goes as there is nowhere "down" to go.

One end of the crankshaft is sticking up in the air with the nut loosly put
back on (to protect the threads) while the other end is firmly attached to
the lawn mower blade. The piston is in the middle.

Where "down" can it go?

You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less

That's a LOT of distance for an immovable flywheel. Do you bump it back UP
1/8th of an inch when you reassemble?

I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down
on the flywheel.

I agree. What everyone said (and what utterly failed for me) was to pry UP
on the flywheel and bang DOWN on the crankshaft.

What worked (for me) was to tap the pre-existing holes and lift up on the
flywheel leveraging on the center of the crankshaft with a harmonic
balancer puller with two 1/4 x 20 bolts and washers (that bent like potato
chips from the force).

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:57:21 +0000 (UTC), Jeff The Drunk wrote:
They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you
don't mess up the thread at the top.

I bought that tool; it was useless.

The physic is shock as in an impact wrench will drive the screw
tighter or looser with less effort and less chance of breaking things.

While this shock and awe effect didn't work for me, I do understand what
you're implying.

Basically, from Physics 101 back in college, dynamic friction is less than
static friction.

So, what you're saying, I think, is by banging on the flywheel (actually
banging on anything would work as well), you set up vibrations, which allow
things to move with just a little bit less friction.

Well, at least that explanation makes sense. It didn't work. But it makes
sense!

On 7/12/2010 6:45 PM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.

As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the
two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer
puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever.

End result is:
1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel
2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller
3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.

This moron is just not going to get it. We're done here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 7/12/2010 6:45 PM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.

As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the
two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer
puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever.

End result is:
1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel
2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller
3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.

Here, maybe after you watch the proper procedure a few dozen times,
you'll get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zmD_buI5xA

Just watch this over and over and over.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Jul 11, 11:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?

The fact that you had to drill it for the bolts is worrysome, it wasnt
designed to be maintained and now is probably out of balance.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

No one suggested he bang the flywheel
Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.

Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank.

So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following
logic:

1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ...

2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ...

I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch,
where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston;
and the other end has a blade attached.

If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it
back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote:

you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics.

Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic understanding
of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree that the explanations
given so far are, shall we say, problematic.

So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have (only) two
different reasons proposed for banging down on the crankshaft.

1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft.

2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the
flywheel up 1/8th of an inch.

Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I err),
I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are problematic.

The problem with hypothesis #1:
- If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and perhaps
more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack (lightly) the
flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade. I guess vibrating
the crankshaft from the top is easier than vibrating the crankshaft from
the bottom; but what I'm saying is that vibrations don't have to come
directly from the top of the crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere
near as successful as simply pulling the flywheel up.

The problem with hypothesis #2:
- If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when
you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you pop it
back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine correctly, the
flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade is on the other,
with the piston in the middle. If you move the crankshaft down 1/8th of an
inch, aren't you moving the entire apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't
you have to then move it back UP 1/8th of an inch?

Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the
crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some reason); I
just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of engine that I have
(which is designed to be removed by tapping the pre-existing flywheel holes
and pulling up leveraging down on the crankshaft).

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
As for breaking the intake manifold, that's your fault. You should've
looked before prying. Pry on something that isn't the intake manifold.

I don't disagree with you ... that it's my fault for breaking the intake
manifold by prying down on it.

What I learned is that this engine (at least) isn't designed for prying up
and banging down.

It's designed for you to tap a 1/4 x 20 thread into the two pre-existing
holes in the flywheel and simply pulling the flywheel off with a harmonic
balancer pulley.

I'll snap some pictures and post them so you guys can see all this.

Mostly I want the next poor guy to get the point that smacking down on the
crankshaft and pulling up on the flywheel might not be the first choice for
engines such as my Briggs and Stratton Craftsman lawnmower!

James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?


Someone else mentioned the vibration/shock of whacking something
with a hammer. It's an old trick that works for things like plumbing.
Hold one hammer on one side of the plumbing, hit the other side with
another hammer. Doing it in as many places as possible loosens up the
fittings.
Hitting a bolt head sometimes helps loosen it. It's seldom that I
hear of things vibrating tight.
If nothing else whacking something with a hammer a few times is a
good stress reliever.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT), JIMMIE wrote:

Should read, "What is the logic of prying against your intake manifold"

I don't disagree.

I'll have to snap some pictures though, as you'll need to see that if
you're going to go 360 degrees around the flywheel, you have to pry on
SOMETHING in all directions and the intake manifold was in front, across
the entire front of the engine, crossing from the air intake on one side to
the valve mechanism on the other side.

Of course, if I knew that dirty gray pipe crossing the front of the engine
was brittle plastic, I would have given up on the pry-bar method. Besides,
knowing what I know now, nobody in his right mind would pry on anything to
get this type of flywheel off.

The right way to do it, I found out belatedly, is to tap the two
pre-existing holes with a 1/4x20 tap and simply use a harmonic balancer to
lift the flywheel up almost effortlessly. The force is high, but the effort
is low due to mechanical leverage.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:03:06 -0700, James H. wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
As for breaking the intake manifold, that's your fault. You should've
looked before prying. Pry on something that isn't the intake manifold.

I don't disagree with you ... that it's my fault for breaking the intake
manifold by prying down on it.

What I learned is that this engine (at least) isn't designed for prying
up and banging down.

It's designed for you to tap a 1/4 x 20 thread into the two pre-existing
holes in the flywheel and simply pulling the flywheel off with a
harmonic balancer pulley.

I'll snap some pictures and post them so you guys can see all this.

Mostly I want the next poor guy to get the point that smacking down on
the crankshaft and pulling up on the flywheel might not be the first
choice for engines such as my Briggs and Stratton Craftsman lawnmower!


Mechanics have been using the pull up, smack down method for maybe 60
years. I have a puller and I have a device that screws on the crank to
allow you to rap on it without damaging the threaded top of the crank.
I've even just screwed the nut back on a few thread and gave the crank a
rap. It's something you develop a feel for if you do it enough and having
done it many times myself I can do it in my sleep and not damage
anything. The part of the crank that the flywheel sits on is tapered a
bit and this is why that initial jolt loosens the flywheel. If it wasn't
tapered you would need to use a puller.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:03:06 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

Mostly I want the next poor guy to get the point that smacking down on the
crankshaft and pulling up on the flywheel might not be the first choice for
engines such as my Briggs and Stratton Craftsman lawnmower!

Now you make sense. Hammers are a last resort as a solution.

I still say smack the crankshaft....

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:45:57 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Replace the flywheel now. Dangerous? Wait until it fly's apart and
hurts. Caused by fracture in cracks.

Never pull a mower flywheel without the tool, or without hitting the
crank.

Outside "hooks" will crack the flywheel. The reason your flywheel
bent!

Learn some tradition, I say.

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:51:18 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

No one suggested he bang the flywheel
Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.

Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank.

So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following
logic:

1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ...

2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ...

I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch,
where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston;
and the other end has a blade attached.

If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it
back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on?

When you hit the crank -- do it with the mower on the lawn turf. That
is what takes up the shock, No the crank will _not_ move 1/8" --
forget that!

Soil will cushion the blows better than a driveway.

Logic can be from tradition.

In article
,
wrote:

You are basically knocking the mower out from under the flywheel. Why?
You can't hit the flywheel to knock it off the mower so this is your
only choice.

Sheesh. Thank you. If that doesn't paint a clear picture for the OP,
nothing will.

James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote:

you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics.

Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic
understanding of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree
that the explanations given so far are, shall we say, problematic.

So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have
(only) two different reasons proposed for banging down on the
crankshaft.

1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the
crankshaft.

2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the
flywheel up 1/8th of an inch.

Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I
err), I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are
problematic.

The problem with hypothesis #1:
- If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and
perhaps more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack
(lightly) the flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade.
I guess vibrating the crankshaft from the top is easier than
vibrating the crankshaft from the bottom; but what I'm saying is that
vibrations don't have to come directly from the top of the
crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere near as successful as
simply pulling the flywheel up.

The problem with hypothesis #2:
- If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when
you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you
pop it back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine
correctly, the flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade
is on the other, with the piston in the middle. If you move the
crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, aren't you moving the entire
apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't you have to then move it back
UP 1/8th of an inch?

Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the
crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some
reason); I just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of
engine that I have (which is designed to be removed by tapping the
pre-existing flywheel holes and pulling up leveraging down on the
crankshaft).


Whoosh!!!!

James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:05:38 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
As for breaking the intake manifold, that's your fault. You should've
looked before prying. Pry on something that isn't the intake
manifold.

I don't disagree with you ... that it's my fault for breaking the
intake manifold by prying down on it.

What I learned is that this engine (at least) isn't designed for
prying up and banging down.

It's designed for you to tap a 1/4 x 20 thread into the two
pre-existing holes in the flywheel and simply pulling the flywheel
off with a harmonic balancer pulley.

If it was designed for that, the holes would have been tapped.