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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Bent crankshaft
Damn 'n blast. Hit one of the larger rocks (bed rock...) in the "lawn"
with the blade of the rotary mower the other week. Sheared the locating pins on the diecast boss, neat I though saves the engine. Got a new boss and blade and fitted them, started it up and boy is there a lot of vibration. Check the new blade for balance OK. Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". The B&S 10D900 series engine is "lumpy" and hunts but then it has no load, with the blade fitted and a short run of mowing it didn't seem to bad considering the vibration... What does the panel think are the chances of: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. b) Other engine damage. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#3
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Bent crankshaft
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:36:32 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:
a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. Better than just throwing it away. Go on, if it works you'll be a hero to uk.rec.engines.stationary I think Mr Baker's response of "Nil" sums it up having hit the end a few times with a lump hammer this afternoon. I guess it's now down to the economics of the cost of a new crankhaft (+ engine gasket/seal set) , a new/refurb engine or a new mower... Anyone any idea of the costs of those? At least with the last two options I'll have this engine for spares, it's only run for about 30hrs. Was new last year, changed the oil at the end of last season (black) and after half a dozen or so runs this year it's still lovely and clean when I dip it. B-( -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#4
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Bent crankshaft
You've got a chance, done it with a large compressor which fell off a
trailer onto it's flywheel! Regards Capitol Dave Liquorice wrote in message ... Damn 'n blast. Hit one of the larger rocks (bed rock...) in the "lawn" with the blade of the rotary mower the other week. Sheared the locating pins on the diecast boss, neat I though saves the engine. Got a new boss and blade and fitted them, started it up and boy is there a lot of vibration. Check the new blade for balance OK. Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". The B&S 10D900 series engine is "lumpy" and hunts but then it has no load, with the blade fitted and a short run of mowing it didn't seem to bad considering the vibration... What does the panel think are the chances of: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. b) Other engine damage. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#5
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Bent crankshaft
ps, also seen it done with a 50MW alternator shaft!
Regards Capitol Dave Liquorice wrote in message ... Damn 'n blast. Hit one of the larger rocks (bed rock...) in the "lawn" with the blade of the rotary mower the other week. Sheared the locating pins on the diecast boss, neat I though saves the engine. Got a new boss and blade and fitted them, started it up and boy is there a lot of vibration. Check the new blade for balance OK. Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". The B&S 10D900 series engine is "lumpy" and hunts but then it has no load, with the blade fitted and a short run of mowing it didn't seem to bad considering the vibration... What does the panel think are the chances of: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. b) Other engine damage. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#6
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Bent crankshaft
"Capitol" wrote in message news:bepq77
ps, also seen it done with a 50MW alternator shaft! Regards Capitol Dave Liquorice wrote in message ... Damn 'n blast. Hit one of the larger rocks (bed rock...) in the "lawn" with the blade of the rotary mower the other week. Sheared the locating pins on the diecast boss, neat I though saves the engine. Got a new boss and blade and fitted them, started it up and boy is there a lot of vibration. Check the new blade for balance OK. Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". The B&S 10D900 series engine is "lumpy" and hunts but then it has no load, with the blade fitted and a short run of mowing it didn't seem to bad considering the vibration... What does the panel think are the chances of: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. b) Other engine damage. Hi I'd want to use something a lot more precise than a damn lump hammer. I've strightened all sorts of things up, but I wouldnt think of doing it with a hammer, you need controlled. At the end of the day if it runs, all you need do is minimise the damage, no need for perfection. - having not seen it I might be missing something of course. Some say I am anyway  Regards, NT |
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#7
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Bent crankshaft
On 12 Jul 2003 18:25:23 -0700, N. Thornton wrote:
I'd want to use something a lot more precise than a damn lump hammer. I've strightened all sorts of things up, but I wouldnt think of doing it with a hammer, you need controlled. Well I agree but the hammer was available. If I had some form of hydraulical ram and strong mounting for the ram and the shaft. I'd get a gasket seal/set and take the shaft out but I don't have such sophisticated kit. I might enquire at the garage in the village. At the end of the day if it runs, all you need do is minimise the damage, no need for perfection. With it spinning round with a 18" dia blade bolted it will have to run pretty true or the vibration will knacker (if it's not already) the bottom bearing/seal. AFAICT the bend is at the point where the shaft comes out of the crankcase. The shaft is vertical, about 3" long 1" dia and underneath the engine: -----+ +----- \ \ \ \ \_\ -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#8
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Bent crankshaft
In article , Dave
Liquorice writes On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 18:36:32 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. Better than just throwing it away. Go on, if it works you'll be a hero to uk.rec.engines.stationary I think Mr Baker's response of "Nil" sums it up having hit the end a few times with a lump hammer this afternoon. I guess it's now down to the economics of the cost of a new crankhaft (+ engine gasket/seal set) , a new/refurb engine or a new mower... Anyone any idea of the costs of those? At least with the last two options I'll have this engine for spares, it's only run for about 30hrs. Was new last year, changed the oil at the end of last season (black) and after half a dozen or so runs this year it's still lovely and clean when I dip it. B-( Which/whose engine is it? In the past I've found that makes a huge difference in getting spares (and to the parts cost). Our Tecumseh 2-strokes on the Flymos were very hard to get bits for, but the later Briggs & Stratton ones were fine. A Tecumseh 'short' engine was available (cylinder piston con-rod and crankshaft/case), but hardly economic. We went that route once and the following time changed the mower  Regards, Simonm. -- simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq GT250A'76 R80/RT '86 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/ |
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#9
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Bent crankshaft
In article , Dave
Liquorice writes On 12 Jul 2003 18:25:23 -0700, N. Thornton wrote: I'd want to use something a lot more precise than a damn lump hammer. I've strightened all sorts of things up, but I wouldnt think of doing it with a hammer, you need controlled. Well I agree but the hammer was available. If I had some form of hydraulical ram and strong mounting for the ram and the shaft. I'd get a gasket seal/set and take the shaft out but I don't have such sophisticated kit. I might enquire at the garage in the village. My Land Rover expert locally has a hydraulic press, as most places do these days. He uses it for separating components, and straightening things. It's very powerful, very controllable, and, with a pair of V-blocks, ought to do just what you want. Regarding gasket kits, whatever's wrong with Cornflakes packets? Regards, Simonm. -- simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq GT250A'76 R80/RT '86 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/ |
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#10
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Bent crankshaft
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message . 1... I guess it's now down to the economics of the cost of a new crankhaft (+ engine gasket/seal set) , a new/refurb engine or a new mower... Anyone any idea of the costs of those? At least with the last two options I'll have this engine for spares ========================== Hi Dave, I've just bought a mower from Homebase for 99ukp. It has a 3.75 HP Briggs and Stratton engine. Is the hassle worth it? Cheers, Ian |
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#11
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Bent crankshaft
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 14:42:55 +0100, Ian Smeaton wrote:
It has a 3.75 HP Briggs and Stratton engine. Self-propelled and 18" cut? Self propelled is essential to get up the hills and even to push it along the "flatter" bits. 18" cut is the minimum reuqired having had this one for a season if I was to buy again I'd seriously look at something bigger. I very much doubt that spec is available for =A399. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#12
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Bent crankshaft
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:07:50 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
Which/whose engine is it? Briggs & Stratton 10D900 series. There are a number of "Authorized Registered Service Dealers" and a couple of "International Master Sales and Service Dealers" up so I'm hopeful that actually getting parts won't be a problem, the wallet damage may well be. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#13
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Bent crankshaft
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:04:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Maybe we should talk I'll bear it in mind, village garage is the next stop I think. A tenner to straigthen the shaft is worth it. We have old cornflake packets, though looking at the Illustrated Parts List the gasket is available in 3 thickness's presumably to adjust the endfloat on the shaft. If yiour lttle engine is from a Heyterette, It on a Qualcast but the engine is a B&S 10D902 model 0128. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#14
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Bent crankshaft
In article , Dave
Liquorice writes On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 10:07:50 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig wrote: Which/whose engine is it? Briggs & Stratton 10D900 series. There are a number of "Authorized Registered Service Dealers" and a couple of "International Master Sales and Service Dealers" up so I'm hopeful that actually getting parts won't be a problem, the wallet damage may well be. I well understand Our B+S haven't failed yet, so I haven't had cause to investigate spare parts places. I wonder if a semi-industrial outlet (agricultural machinery specialist?) might be a cheaper bet than a lawnmower repairer - if they sell B+S engines for other machinery, e.g. compressors and small gennies. Only a thought... Regards, Simonm. -- simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay SIMON MUIR, UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY, BRISTOL www.ukip.org EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq GT250A'76 R80/RT '86 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/ |
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#15
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Bent crankshaft
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Self-propelled and 18" cut? Self propelled is essential to get up the hills and even to push it along the "flatter" bits. 18" cut is the minimum reuqired having had this one for a season if I was to buy again I'd seriously look at something bigger. I very much doubt that spec is available for £99. Sure, but are the engine swappable? £99 for a new 3.5hp B&S is less than you'd pay from a main B&S dealer. -- Grunff |
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#16
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Bent crankshaft
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:29:08 +0100, Grunff wrote:
Sure, but are the engine swappable? =A399 for a new 3.5hp B&S is less than you'd pay from a main B&S dealer. Thats a point but 3.5hp would not have the grunt. This engine 4.5hp... -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#17
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Bent crankshaft
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 21:51:45 +0100, Andrew Heggie
wrote: http://www.sesengines.co.uk/briggoff.htm Lists a 10D902 0119-E1 at GBP132, may fit. Probably would being a 10D900 series. 132 not bad, cheaper than a new mower, just... -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#18
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Bent crankshaft
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message . 1... On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:29:08 +0100, Grunff wrote: Sure, but are the engine swappable? £99 for a new 3.5hp B&S is less than you'd pay from a main B&S dealer. Thats a point but 3.5hp would not have the grunt. This engine 4.5hp... fit a Turbo |
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#19
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Bent crankshaft
Dave
The wife did the same thing to our 5hp B & S mower a couple of years ago, I was quoted around £75 for a new crank ! I stripped the engine down and the workshop where I work tried straightening it but it was too far gone. I then happened to be down our tip (do I mean recycling centre ?) and spotted an old mower with a same series engine, got it for a fiver. This engine was far more worn than mine, the crank bearings where scoured but I swapped the crank over and its still running fine now. Chris "Dave Liquorice" wrote in message . 1... Damn 'n blast. Hit one of the larger rocks (bed rock...) in the "lawn" with the blade of the rotary mower the other week. Sheared the locating pins on the diecast boss, neat I though saves the engine. Got a new boss and blade and fitted them, started it up and boy is there a lot of vibration. Check the new blade for balance OK. Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". The B&S 10D900 series engine is "lumpy" and hunts but then it has no load, with the blade fitted and a short run of mowing it didn't seem to bad considering the vibration... What does the panel think are the chances of: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. b) Other engine damage. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#20
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Bent crankshaft
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:50:07 +0100, Chris Oates wrote:
Thats a point but 3.5hp would not have the grunt. This engine 4.5hp... fit a Turbo I want it to mow the lawn not race. B-) -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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#21
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Bent crankshaft
"Dave Liquorice" wrote
| Chris Oates wrote: | Thats a point but 3.5hp would not have the grunt. This engine | 4.5hp... | fit a Turbo | I want it to mow the lawn not race. B-) music Lawn racing across South Derbyshire [1] Only doing this job 'cos he can't find the shears / Owain [1] Insert county as appropriate |
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#22
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Bent crankshaft
Briggs and Strattons generally very sturdy and take abuse and
even modification well! Our current 3.5 HP about ten/twelve years old now (little bowlegged due to being left under several feet of snow a few years back) works fine. A previous B&S (about 25 years ago) required the seized piston to be driven out with a hammer and large punch. We fitted a used piston and it lasted another few years with two hubs piggybacked on the bottom of the engine shaft to get the blade low enough to cut grass; until the steel 'pan/deck' of the mower rusted away (that was the second deck on that mower and it was not dished as low as the original) hence the two hubs! If/when our current mower expires I'll probably just replace it. The price of brand new 3.5 HP absolutely 'bog standard' (no extra features whatsoever and thereby fewer parts to maintain) has increased gradually over the past 10 to 15 years. Our current one cost $129.99 plus approx. 16% sales tax ten years ago. A few years ago they were around $149 to $169, plus tax. The best price (not on sale but just regular retail) at beginning of this summer was $199.00 plus 15% sales tax. Canadian Dollars/Pounds. 129.99 + 16% = $151 Approx. 67 UK pounds. Circa 1990-93. 149.99 + 15% = $173 Approx. 75 UK pounds. Circa 1996 169.99 + 15% = $196 Approx. 85 UK pounds. Circa 1999 199.99 + 15% = %230 Approx. 100 UK pounds. 2003 (Was either Canadian Tire or Home Hardware.) Some companies now use Tecumseh engines but prices are pretty well identical to B&S models. Oh. And by the way. Important. USE STEEL REINFORCED SAFETY FOOT WEAR WHEN MOWING. One individual who later worked for me (in an office capacity!) lost two and a half toes while wearing rubber 'gum boots'/Wellingtons. There are scars on my steel toed/shank work boats to prove they have saved me at least once! |
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#23
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Bent crankshaft
Terry wrote:
Briggs and Strattons generally very sturdy and take abuse and even modification well! Our current 3.5 HP about ten/twelve years old now (little bowlegged due to being left under several feet of snow a few years back) works fine. A previous B&S (about 25 years ago) required the seized piston to be driven out with a hammer and large punch. We fitted a used piston and it lasted another few years with two hubs piggybacked on the bottom of the engine shaft to get the blade low enough to cut grass; until the steel 'pan/deck' of the mower rusted away (that was the second deck on that mower and it was not dished as low as the original) hence the two hubs! If/when our current mower expires I'll probably just replace it. The price of brand new 3.5 HP absolutely 'bog standard' (no extra features whatsoever and thereby fewer parts to maintain) has increased gradually over the past 10 to 15 years. Our current one cost $129.99 plus approx. 16% sales tax ten years ago. A few years ago they were around $149 to $169, plus tax. The best price (not on sale but just regular retail) at beginning of this summer was $199.00 plus 15% sales tax. Canadian Dollars/Pounds. 129.99 + 16% = $151 Approx. 67 UK pounds. Circa 1990-93. 149.99 + 15% = $173 Approx. 75 UK pounds. Circa 1996 169.99 + 15% = $196 Approx. 85 UK pounds. Circa 1999 199.99 + 15% = %230 Approx. 100 UK pounds. 2003 (Was either Canadian Tire or Home Hardware.) Some companies now use Tecumseh engines but prices are pretty well identical to B&S models. I think I was quoted around £130 for a B&S 3.5bhp motor a year or tow ago.. Oh. And by the way. Important. USE STEEL REINFORCED SAFETY FOOT WEAR WHEN MOWING. One individual who later worked for me (in an office capacity!) lost two and a half toes while wearing rubber 'gum boots'/Wellingtons. There are scars on my steel toed/shank work boats to prove they have saved me at least once! When I bought my mower, I bouhght it together with my next door neighbour - and Irishman of considerable humour. HE claimed that in Belfast, the hospitals have an urban legend about someone who came in minus all his finger tips. He had apparenttly decided to pick the mower up by the baseplate and use it as a hedge trimmer :-) |
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#24
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Bent crankshaft
Terry wrote: Briggs and Strattons generally very sturdy and take abuse and even modification well! Snip ............... Then: The Natural Philosopher wrote: I think I was quoted around £130 for a B&S 3.5bhp motor a year or tow ago.. Just the motor or complete mower? Prices I listed were for a mower; usually the bottom of the line model has a red base with a black engine. You buy it, stick in the vehicle, bring it home, read the instructions add/check the oil, put in gas (petrol) and away you go. For the last few years it has been mandatory for manufacturers to provide them with the safety shut off when you release the handle. Recently I fixed one for a friend that had hit a rock/stone which had bent the grass guide underneath so badly it was mangled and bent. The blade had come up solid and jammed against it. I feared the worst for the engine! Used a cold chisel to cut out the spot welds that held the curved metal grass guide and threw it away. Mower works fine. Cheers. |
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#25
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Bent crankshaft
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message .1...
Damn 'n blast. Hit one of the larger rocks (bed rock...) in the "lawn" with the blade of the rotary mower the other week. Sheared the locating pins on the diecast boss, neat I though saves the engine. Got a new boss and blade and fitted them, started it up and boy is there a lot of vibration. Check the new blade for balance OK. Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". The B&S 10D900 series engine is "lumpy" and hunts but then it has no load, with the blade fitted and a short run of mowing it didn't seem to bad considering the vibration... What does the panel think are the chances of: a) Straighting the shaft in stitue. b) Other engine damage. Hi Dave, I've worked in the garden machinery industry for quite a number of years and have done crank shaft straightening on numerous occassions. You won't do it in situte, the engine has to come off and is bolted into a jig and then the crank is pushed back straight by tightenig bolts against it. It requires some nerve as it takes an awefull lot of pressure and it is possible to break the sump or crank case casting if you are not carefull. Most mower shops will just want to sell you a new mower, engine or crank so you may have to hunt around untill you find a 'good one' that can do it for you. Hope that helps, BashTin |
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#26
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Bent crankshaft
Terry wrote:
Terry wrote: Briggs and Strattons generally very sturdy and take abuse and even modification well! Snip ............... Then: The Natural Philosopher wrote: I think I was quoted around £130 for a B&S 3.5bhp motor a year or tow ago.. Just the motor or complete mower? Motor bare. The Hayterette (old cast chassis version) is still going strong after 18 years, and a replacement would cost over 500 squids. Its the best rough corner cutter I have come across, and I am loath to replace it wioth somethig plasticky and cheap. It is NOT the No 1 mower, tho. I use it for the edges of teh garden and round trees. Prices I listed were for a mower; usually the bottom of the line model has a red base with a black engine. You buy it, stick in the vehicle, bring it home, read the instructions add/check the oil, put in gas (petrol) and away you go. For the last few years it has been mandatory for manufacturers to provide them with the safety shut off when you release the handle. Recently I fixed one for a friend that had hit a rock/stone which had bent the grass guide underneath so badly it was mangled and bent. The blade had come up solid and jammed against it. I feared the worst for the engine! Used a cold chisel to cut out the spot welds that held the curved metal grass guide and threw it away. Mower works fine. Cheers. Hmm. The No 1 mower is held together by prayers and bits of bent tin. Its a westwood ride on. Its alarmingly badly made, apart ftom its B & S engine, which has never missed a beat. |
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#27
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Bent crankshaft
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:19:57 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:
Dreaded thought output shaft bent, mower up on blocks, engine started. Oh dear... there is the shaft wobbling nicely by about 3/16". Engine since taken to village garage and the flywheel removed(*). Trouble is the bottom sump casting has a long tube (2") that is only just clearance on the shaft. Needless to say the shaft is far to bent to pass through this tube. B-( If I cut the end off the crankshaft I can get it out but then *will* require a new crankshaft... grrr. (*) I don't have a 23mm socket for the nut and even if I had the holes that are supposed to accept the bolts for a puller hadn't been tapped out. Garage of course had a puller big enough to go over the outside, even then it was damn tight and need persuasion from an airline hammer to break the joint to get it off. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
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