Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? I usually pry up "firmly" on the flywheel on two side (wooden wedges work well), then tap downward on the end of the shaft (with the nut loosened to be flush with the crank end). By lifting up, you raise the crankshaft slightly, takeing up any play. Then when you tap the crankshaft, it applies instantaneous force way higher than you could ever get by lifting the flywheel. The mass of the flywheel resists the momentary force, so the crankshaft loosens. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
Bob F wrote:
I usually pry up "firmly" on the flywheel on two side (wooden wedges work well), then tap downward on the end of the shaft (with the nut loosened to be flush with the crank end). By lifting up, you raise the crankshaft slightly, takeing up any play. Then when you tap the crankshaft, it applies instantaneous force way higher than you could ever get by lifting the flywheel. The mass of the flywheel resists the momentary force, so the crankshaft loosens. Yep, that's the way I have always done it as well. They actually sell a tool that is threaded onto the end of the shaft so that the end of the shaft is protected from the hammer. In other words, the manufacturer has it as a recommended procedure. Jon |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 5:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? The reason a taper joint parts is only partly to do with the direct mechanical forces. The main reason is that the metal is deformed momentarily by the shock wave of the hammer blow. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? I agree with the others. Even using a puller you still tap the bolt that is pushing on the crankshaft after you put a little pressure on it. If it don't loosen, a little more tightening and another rap with the hammer. If you broke your manifold, you were using too much leverage in a bad location. Looking for a place to use leverage is another trick sometimes. Now, if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out of balance. Check balance before re-assembling. Hank |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 3:56*am, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote: What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? I agree with the others. Even using a puller you still tap the bolt that is pushing on the crankshaft after you put a little pressure on it. If it don't loosen, a little more tightening and another rap with the hammer. If you broke your manifold, you were using too much leverage in a bad location. Looking for a place to use leverage is another trick sometimes. Now, if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out of balance. Check balance before re-assembling. Hank- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I use a puller but I also hit the top of the puller a few times after I have gotten some tension on it. Frees up the flywheel. They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:
They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes. As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half. Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever. End result is: 1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel 2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller 3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet. |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On 7/12/2010 6:45 PM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote: They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes. As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half. Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever. End result is: 1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel 2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller 3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet. This moron is just not going to get it. We're done here. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
Thank you, Doctor. I concur.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Steve Barker" wrote in message news I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet. This moron is just not going to get it. We're done here. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On 7/12/2010 6:45 PM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote: They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes. As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half. Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever. End result is: 1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel 2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller 3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet. Here, maybe after you watch the proper procedure a few dozen times, you'll get it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zmD_buI5xA Just watch this over and over and over. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:45:57 -0700, "James H."
wrote: I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half. Replace the flywheel now. Dangerous? Wait until it fly's apart and hurts. Caused by fracture in cracks. Never pull a mower flywheel without the tool, or without hitting the crank. Outside "hooks" will crack the flywheel. The reason your flywheel bent! Learn some tradition, I say. |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:54:50 -0700, Oren wrote:
Learn some tradition, I say. Hi Oren, I don't disagree with you on replacing the flywheel (I ordered one from Sears in fact, but didn't mention it because it wasn't relevant to the discussion). However, please realize, that "tradition" is apparently dead wrong here. This is tradition: http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/ However, the owners manual begs to differ with tradition: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A The ONLY way to remove this type of Briggs & Stratton flywheel is to tap the pre-drilled holes and lift up with a two-bolt harmonic balancer puller, the lifting force being near the center of the flywheel and the indented tip of the crankshaft. The "flywheel puller" is part #363 (Sears part number 19069, Briggs and Stratton part number BS 19069) on page 38 and 39 of the Owner's Manual for the Craftsman Rotary Lawn Motor, 6.5 Horsepower, 21" Rear Discharge, Model No., 917.388853 with the Briggs & Stratton 4-cycle engine, model number 123K02-0444-E1. Here is the flywheel puller for $7.50 online: http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368 It's sheer folly to try to bang the flywheel off with shock and awe. http://www.briggsracing.com/en/artic...el-puller.aspx |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
James H. wrote:
but after seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as too dangerous. You saw it bend? They don't do much bending, but they do crack. Throw it out, you ruined it. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hustlin' Hank wrote:
if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out of balance. Check balance before re-assembling. The holes in the Briggs and Stratton 3.5 HP engine flywheel are pre-drilled by the manufacturer. All I needed to do was tap them. I don't think tapping the two holes (1/4x20) will knock them out of whack; do you? |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 11, 9:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? I followed that thread and you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Harry K |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:
you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Hi Harry K, I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft. The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me. I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine). So far I've heard that banging down on the flywheel "momentarily deforms" the crankshaft ... and that ... somehow ... magically? ... allows the flywheel to pop up on the tapered shaft. |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Hi Harry K, I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft. The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me. I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine). Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked. Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken anything. But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap, the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose. |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:29:12 -0700, Bob F wrote:
James H. wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Hi Harry K, I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft. The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me. I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine). Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked. Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken anything. But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap, the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose. Hi Bob, On the Briggs and Stratton web site, they explain the use of the flywheel puller. In the owners manual, they show a picture and the part number for the flywheel puller. While I definitely see "tradition" has it that almost everyone (except Sears and Briggs and Stratton) recommends banging on the flywheel, that's NOT the way to remove the flywheel on my Craftsman Briggs and Stratton engine! This video shows the (wrong) traditional method: http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/ This is the $7.50 flywheel puller (Briggs & Stratton P/N: BS 19069): http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368 http://tewarehouse.com/7-05979 http://www.jackssmallengines.com/service_tools2.cfm The owners manual (page 38 & 39) show this as Sears P/N: 19069: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A Point is, banging on this type of Briggs & Stratton engine is sheer folly when there is a perfectly cheap and effective method. Even the Briggs and Stratton web site says (at least for their racing engines) the ONLY way to remove a flywheel is to use a flywheel puller. So, I'm just letting folks know the lessons learned. I asked. I got advice. Most of it was wrong. But some of it was dead on right. I made mistakes. I learned. I found out, the hard way, the right way. And I'm letting folks know. The only thing that had confused me was how the old way was supposed to work (logically that is) ... and it turns out that it does work ... but it's the wrong method to use for these Briggs and Stratton engines. I need to post some pictures instead of responding with text. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On 7/13/2010 1:52 AM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:29:12 -0700, Bob F wrote: James H. wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Hi Harry K, I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft. The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me. I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine). Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked. Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken anything. But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap, the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose. Hi Bob, On the Briggs and Stratton web site, they explain the use of the flywheel puller. In the owners manual, they show a picture and the part number for the flywheel puller. While I definitely see "tradition" has it that almost everyone (except Sears and Briggs and Stratton) recommends banging on the flywheel, that's NOT the way to remove the flywheel on my Craftsman Briggs and Stratton engine! NO ONE suggested "banging on the flywheel". You are WRONG WRONG WRONG again. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:29:12 -0700, Bob F wrote: James H. wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Hi Harry K, I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft. The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me. I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine). Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked. Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken anything. But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap, the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose. Hi Bob, On the Briggs and Stratton web site, they explain the use of the flywheel puller. In the owners manual, they show a picture and the part number for the flywheel puller. While I definitely see "tradition" has it that almost everyone (except Sears and Briggs and Stratton) recommends banging on the flywheel, that's NOT the way to remove the flywheel on my Craftsman Briggs and Stratton engine! This video shows the (wrong) traditional method: http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/ This is the $7.50 flywheel puller (Briggs & Stratton P/N: BS 19069): http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368 http://tewarehouse.com/7-05979 http://www.jackssmallengines.com/service_tools2.cfm The owners manual (page 38 & 39) show this as Sears P/N: 19069: http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A Point is, banging on this type of Briggs & Stratton engine is sheer folly when there is a perfectly cheap and effective method. Even the Briggs and Stratton web site says (at least for their racing engines) the ONLY way to remove a flywheel is to use a flywheel puller. So, I'm just letting folks know the lessons learned. I asked. I got advice. Most of it was wrong. But some of it was dead on right. I made mistakes. I learned. I found out, the hard way, the right way. And I'm letting folks know. The only thing that had confused me was how the old way was supposed to work (logically that is) ... and it turns out that it does work ... but it's the wrong method to use for these Briggs and Stratton engines. There must be 100 special tools that are "required" to work on things I've worked on. I've done just fine without once buying them, thank you. Just because a manufacturer sells a tool for a job does not make that the "right way". And just because you say it does not make it so either. If it does the job without damage and is quick and cheap - it's the right way. Especially if it avoids having to order and pay, and wiat for a special tool. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 4:49*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote: you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal. Hi Harry K, I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft. The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me. I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine). So far I've heard that banging down on the flywheel "momentarily deforms" the crankshaft ... and that ... somehow ... magically? ... allows the flywheel to pop up on the tapered shaft. Asking the same question here, and getting the same answers, isn't going to change anything. To add something that hasn't been mentioned (or I didn't see it). The inertia delivered by the hammer affects the crankshaft, not the flywheel (you are preventing it from moving). At the end of the day you will just have to accept the fact that it does work when done properly and won't cause damage to anything. Harry K |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 11, 11:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? Why were you anywhere near the intake manifold, you should have been leveraging against the main chassis of the engine!!! |
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
|
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
Try it.... has worked for me, for years. Yes, the
crank shaft goes down. The fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft is a slow taper. You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less, and then the friction fit between the two shears. And the flywheel lifts off. I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down on the flywheel. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "James H." wrote in message ... What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:55:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Yes, the crank shaft goes down. I wonder WHERE it goes as there is nowhere "down" to go. One end of the crankshaft is sticking up in the air with the nut loosly put back on (to protect the threads) while the other end is firmly attached to the lawn mower blade. The piston is in the middle. Where "down" can it go? You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less That's a LOT of distance for an immovable flywheel. Do you bump it back UP 1/8th of an inch when you reassemble? I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down on the flywheel. I agree. What everyone said (and what utterly failed for me) was to pry UP on the flywheel and bang DOWN on the crankshaft. What worked (for me) was to tap the pre-existing holes and lift up on the flywheel leveraging on the center of the crankshaft with a harmonic balancer puller with two 1/4 x 20 bolts and washers (that bent like potato chips from the force). |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 5:07*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:55:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote: Yes, the crank shaft goes down. I wonder WHERE it goes as there is nowhere "down" to go. One end of the crankshaft is sticking up in the air with the nut loosly put back on (to protect the threads) while the other end is firmly attached to the lawn mower blade. The piston is in the middle. Where "down" can it go? You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less That's a LOT of distance for an immovable flywheel. Do you bump it back UP 1/8th of an inch when you reassemble? I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down on the flywheel. I agree. What everyone said (and what utterly failed for me) was to pry UP on the flywheel and bang DOWN on the crankshaft. What worked (for me) was to tap the pre-existing holes and lift up on the flywheel leveraging on the center of the crankshaft with a harmonic balancer puller with two 1/4 x 20 bolts and washers (that bent like potato chips from the force). The 1/8" was a gross exageration. It is only a few thousandths but that is all that is needed. There is _no_ mechanical assemblage that does not have a bit of "play" in it. Harry K |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 6:55*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Try it.... has worked for me, for years. Yes, the crank shaft goes down. The fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft is a slow taper. You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less, and then the friction fit between the two shears. And the flywheel lifts off. I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down on the flywheel. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "James H." wrote in message ... What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? Why don't you just accept the _fact_ that it has worked when done properly since B&S engines were first built? That it is also done by almost every small engine mechanic that has ever worked on them? You have been given clear explanations on why it works, You are just being obstinate in refusing to believe them. Harry K |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you don't mess up the thread at the top. The physic is shock as in an impact wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less chance of breaking things. In the plumbing business there is the term "warming up a pipe joint" when using steel pipe and fittings to loosen the joint by banging on it when you can't wrench it apart. Same thing with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all interrelated. |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 10:57*am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, James H. wrote: What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you don't mess up the thread at the top. The physic is shock as in an impact wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less chance of breaking things. In the plumbing business there is the term "warming up a pipe joint" when using steel pipe and fittings to loosen the joint by banging on it when you can't wrench it apart. Same thing with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all interrelated. "Same thing with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all interrelated." I dunno... I always smack the bottom of the jar with the heel of my hand and listen for the "crack". It's my understanding that that releases the vacuum that keeps the jar sealed tight. I'm guessing that there is no vacuum involved in the removal of a fly- wheel. |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:57:21 +0000 (UTC), Jeff The Drunk wrote:
They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you don't mess up the thread at the top. I bought that tool; it was useless. The physic is shock as in an impact wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less chance of breaking things. While this shock and awe effect didn't work for me, I do understand what you're implying. Basically, from Physics 101 back in college, dynamic friction is less than static friction. So, what you're saying, I think, is by banging on the flywheel (actually banging on anything would work as well), you set up vibrations, which allow things to move with just a little bit less friction. Well, at least that explanation makes sense. It didn't work. But it makes sense! |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "James H."
wrote: But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? Tradition. Passed down by generations. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
And misquoted by some. Mower repairmen don't bang down on the
flywheel. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Oren" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "James H." wrote: But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? Tradition. Passed down by generations. |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:09:52 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: And misquoted by some. Mower repairmen don't bang down on the flywheel. The OP's subject is bangin' his crank. He mis-spoke about the flywheel. No one suggested he bang the flywheel Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank. |
#34
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote:
No one suggested he bang the flywheel Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank. Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank. So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following logic: 1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ... 2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ... I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch, where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston; and the other end has a blade attached. If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on? |
#35
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:51:18 -0700, "James H."
wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote: No one suggested he bang the flywheel Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank. Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank. So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following logic: 1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ... 2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ... I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch, where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston; and the other end has a blade attached. If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on? When you hit the crank -- do it with the mower on the lawn turf. That is what takes up the shock, No the crank will _not_ move 1/8" -- forget that! Soil will cushion the blows better than a driveway. Logic can be from tradition. |
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 5:51*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote: No one suggested he bang the flywheel Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank. Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank. So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following logic: 1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ... 2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ... I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch, where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston; and the other end has a blade attached. If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on? Again, the one who said 1/8" misspoke. It is only a few thousandths. Harry K |
#37
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to lift a flywheel UP? In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z). I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar. In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ... (1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for example ... (2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me My question: Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move the flywheel UP? What's the logic? The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless endeavor. But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that? If after everyone answers you for the second time, you will either now understand, OR you should come to the realization that you have no knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and physics. And along with that understanding, you will admit to yourself that you picked a stupid ass place to pry and your broken intake is your fault and not due to anyones suggestions here. |
#38
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote:
you should come to the realization that you have no knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and physics. Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic understanding of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree that the explanations given so far are, shall we say, problematic. So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have (only) two different reasons proposed for banging down on the crankshaft. 1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft. 2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the flywheel up 1/8th of an inch. Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I err), I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are problematic. The problem with hypothesis #1: - If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and perhaps more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack (lightly) the flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade. I guess vibrating the crankshaft from the top is easier than vibrating the crankshaft from the bottom; but what I'm saying is that vibrations don't have to come directly from the top of the crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere near as successful as simply pulling the flywheel up. The problem with hypothesis #2: - If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you pop it back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine correctly, the flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade is on the other, with the piston in the middle. If you move the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, aren't you moving the entire apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't you have to then move it back UP 1/8th of an inch? Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some reason); I just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of engine that I have (which is designed to be removed by tapping the pre-existing flywheel holes and pulling up leveraging down on the crankshaft). |
#39
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?
James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote: you should come to the realization that you have no knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and physics. Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic understanding of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree that the explanations given so far are, shall we say, problematic. So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have (only) two different reasons proposed for banging down on the crankshaft. 1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft. 2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the flywheel up 1/8th of an inch. Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I err), I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are problematic. The problem with hypothesis #1: - If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and perhaps more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack (lightly) the flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade. I guess vibrating the crankshaft from the top is easier than vibrating the crankshaft from the bottom; but what I'm saying is that vibrations don't have to come directly from the top of the crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere near as successful as simply pulling the flywheel up. The problem with hypothesis #2: - If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you pop it back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine correctly, the flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade is on the other, with the piston in the middle. If you move the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, aren't you moving the entire apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't you have to then move it back UP 1/8th of an inch? Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some reason); I just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of engine that I have (which is designed to be removed by tapping the pre-existing flywheel holes and pulling up leveraging down on the crankshaft). Whoosh!!!! |
#40
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?
On Jul 12, 8:17*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
James H. wrote: On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote: you should come to the realization that you have no knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and physics. Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic understanding of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree that the explanations given so far are, shall we say, problematic. So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have (only) two different reasons proposed for banging down on the crankshaft. 1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft. 2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the flywheel up 1/8th of an inch. Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I err), I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are problematic. The problem with hypothesis #1: - If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and perhaps more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack (lightly) the flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade. I guess vibrating the crankshaft from the top is easier than vibrating the crankshaft from the bottom; but what I'm saying is that vibrations don't have to come directly from the top of the crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere near as successful as simply pulling the flywheel up. The problem with hypothesis #2: - If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you pop it back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine correctly, the flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade is on the other, with the piston in the middle. If you move the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, aren't you moving the entire apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't you have to then move it back UP 1/8th of an inch? Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some reason); I just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of engine that I have (which is designed to be removed by tapping the pre-existing flywheel holes and pulling up leveraging down on the crankshaft). Whoosh!!!!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - And very repeatedly. That wall should be almost destroyed by now. Harry K |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
remove aluminum off of crankshaft? lye?? | Home Repair | |||
Banging pipes - types of banging | Home Repair | |||
LawnBoy Crankshaft BENT? :-\ | Home Repair | |||
crankshaft balance factor | Metalworking | |||
Bent crankshaft | UK diy |