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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?

What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?
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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?

James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order
to lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped
like a Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily
removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I
broke the intake manifold in half trying to bang down on the
crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying
up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold,
for example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to
move the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to
go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a
useless endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ...
may I ask what is the logic in that?


I usually pry up "firmly" on the flywheel on two side (wooden wedges work well),
then tap downward on the end of the shaft (with the nut loosened to be flush
with the crank end). By lifting up, you raise the crankshaft slightly, takeing
up any play. Then when you tap the crankshaft, it applies instantaneous force
way higher than you could ever get by lifting the flywheel. The mass of the
flywheel resists the momentary force, so the crankshaft loosens.



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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?

Bob F wrote:


I usually pry up "firmly" on the flywheel on two side (wooden wedges
work well), then tap downward on the end of the shaft (with the nut
loosened to be flush with the crank end). By lifting up, you raise
the crankshaft slightly, takeing up any play. Then when you tap the
crankshaft, it applies instantaneous force way higher than you could
ever get by lifting the flywheel. The mass of the flywheel resists
the momentary force, so the crankshaft loosens.


Yep, that's the way I have always done it as well. They actually sell a
tool that is threaded onto the end of the shaft so that the end of the shaft
is protected from the hammer. In other words, the manufacturer has it as a
recommended procedure.

Jon


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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?

On Jul 12, 5:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


The reason a taper joint parts is only partly to do with the direct
mechanical forces. The main reason is that the metal is deformed
momentarily by the shock wave of the hammer blow.
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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?

On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


I agree with the others. Even using a puller you still tap the bolt
that is pushing on the crankshaft after you put a little pressure on
it. If it don't loosen, a little more tightening and another rap with
the hammer.

If you broke your manifold, you were using too much leverage in a bad
location. Looking for a place to use leverage is another trick
sometimes.

Now, if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out
of balance. Check balance before re-assembling.

Hank


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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?

On Jul 12, 3:56*am, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Jul 12, 12:19*am, "James H." wrote:





What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?


In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).


I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.


In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me


My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?


What's the logic?


The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.


But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


I agree with the others. Even using a puller you still tap the bolt
that is pushing on the crankshaft after you put a little pressure on
it. If it don't loosen, a little more tightening and another rap with
the hammer.

If you broke your manifold, you were using too much leverage in a bad
location. Looking for a place to use leverage is another trick
sometimes.

Now, if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out
of balance. Check balance before re-assembling.

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I use a puller but I also hit the top of the puller a few times after
I have gotten some tension on it. Frees up the flywheel.

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.


As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the
two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer
puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever.

End result is:
1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel
2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller
3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.
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On 7/12/2010 6:45 PM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.


As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the
two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer
puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever.

End result is:
1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel
2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller
3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.


This moron is just not going to get it. We're done here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?

Thank you, Doctor. I concur.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
news

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.


This moron is just not going to get it. We're done here.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email


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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove aflywheel?

On 7/12/2010 6:45 PM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc wrote:

They make pullers that are wider and have hooks on the ends. But
nothing wrong with drilling a couple holes.


As you said, I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.

Only then did I realize the simplest answer of all, which was to tap the
two pre-drilled 1/4x20 holes and simply use a two-bolt harmonic balancer
puller - and the flywheel simply popped off without any effort whatsoever.

End result is:
1. It's crazy to bang DOWN on the crankshaft and pry up on the flywheel
2. It's crazy to lift the EDGES of the flywheel with a gear puller
3. The right way is to lift near the CENTER of the flywheel with a puller

I still don't get the logic of banging down (momentarily deformed
crankshaft?); but I haven't read all the responses yet.


Here, maybe after you watch the proper procedure a few dozen times,
you'll get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zmD_buI5xA

Just watch this over and over and over.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email


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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:45:57 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

I tried a three-pronged 8-inch gear puller, which is, as you
noted, something that grabs the sides of the aluminum flywheel; but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous. It would have cracked the flywheel in half.


Replace the flywheel now. Dangerous? Wait until it fly's apart and
hurts. Caused by fracture in cracks.

Never pull a mower flywheel without the tool, or without hitting the
crank.

Outside "hooks" will crack the flywheel. The reason your flywheel
bent!

Learn some tradition, I say.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:54:50 -0700, Oren wrote:
Learn some tradition, I say.


Hi Oren,
I don't disagree with you on replacing the flywheel (I ordered one from
Sears in fact, but didn't mention it because it wasn't relevant to the
discussion).

However, please realize, that "tradition" is apparently dead wrong here.

This is tradition:
http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/

However, the owners manual begs to differ with tradition:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A

The ONLY way to remove this type of Briggs & Stratton flywheel is to tap
the pre-drilled holes and lift up with a two-bolt harmonic balancer puller,
the lifting force being near the center of the flywheel and the indented
tip of the crankshaft.

The "flywheel puller" is part #363 (Sears part number 19069, Briggs and
Stratton part number BS 19069) on page 38 and 39 of the Owner's Manual for
the Craftsman Rotary Lawn Motor, 6.5 Horsepower, 21" Rear Discharge, Model
No., 917.388853 with the Briggs & Stratton 4-cycle engine, model number
123K02-0444-E1.

Here is the flywheel puller for $7.50 online:
http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368

It's sheer folly to try to bang the flywheel off with shock and awe.
http://www.briggsracing.com/en/artic...el-puller.aspx

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James H. wrote:

but after
seeing the flywheel actually bend upward, I gave up on that method also as
too dangerous.


You saw it bend? They don't do much bending, but they do crack. Throw
it out, you ruined it.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 00:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hustlin' Hank wrote:

if you drilled holes in the flywheel you may have knocked it out
of balance. Check balance before re-assembling.


The holes in the Briggs and Stratton 3.5 HP engine flywheel are pre-drilled
by the manufacturer. All I needed to do was tap them.

I don't think tapping the two holes (1/4x20) will knock them out of whack;
do you?
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On Jul 11, 9:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


I followed that thread and you were given clear, explicit explanations
of why it works and also that it is a common method of accomplishing
the goal.

Harry K


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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.


Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean
I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience
dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP
Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).

So far I've heard that banging down on the flywheel "momentarily deforms"
the crankshaft ... and that ... somehow ... magically? ... allows the
flywheel to pop up on the tapered shaft.
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James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.


Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't
mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable
crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses
me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my
experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this
Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).


Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked.
Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken
anything.

But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the
crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap,
the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose.



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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:29:12 -0700, Bob F wrote:

James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.


Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't
mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable
crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses
me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my
experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this
Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).


Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked.
Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken
anything.

But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the
crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap,
the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose.


Hi Bob,
On the Briggs and Stratton web site, they explain the use of the flywheel
puller.

In the owners manual, they show a picture and the part number for the
flywheel puller.

While I definitely see "tradition" has it that almost everyone (except
Sears and Briggs and Stratton) recommends banging on the flywheel, that's
NOT the way to remove the flywheel on my Craftsman Briggs and Stratton
engine!

This video shows the (wrong) traditional method:
http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/

This is the $7.50 flywheel puller (Briggs & Stratton P/N: BS 19069):
http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368
http://tewarehouse.com/7-05979
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/service_tools2.cfm

The owners manual (page 38 & 39) show this as Sears P/N: 19069:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A

Point is, banging on this type of Briggs & Stratton engine is sheer folly
when there is a perfectly cheap and effective method.

Even the Briggs and Stratton web site says (at least for their racing
engines) the ONLY way to remove a flywheel is to use a flywheel puller.

So, I'm just letting folks know the lessons learned. I asked. I got advice.
Most of it was wrong. But some of it was dead on right. I made mistakes. I
learned. I found out, the hard way, the right way. And I'm letting folks
know.

The only thing that had confused me was how the old way was supposed to
work (logically that is) ... and it turns out that it does work ... but
it's the wrong method to use for these Briggs and Stratton engines.

I need to post some pictures instead of responding with text.
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On 7/13/2010 1:52 AM, James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:29:12 -0700, Bob F wrote:

James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.

Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't
mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable
crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses
me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my
experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this
Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).


Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has always worked.
Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time. And I've never broken
anything.

But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is to lift the
crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you tap. Each time you tap,
the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops loose.


Hi Bob,
On the Briggs and Stratton web site, they explain the use of the flywheel
puller.

In the owners manual, they show a picture and the part number for the
flywheel puller.

While I definitely see "tradition" has it that almost everyone (except
Sears and Briggs and Stratton) recommends banging on the flywheel, that's
NOT the way to remove the flywheel on my Craftsman Briggs and Stratton
engine!


NO ONE suggested "banging on the flywheel". You are WRONG WRONG WRONG
again.



--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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Default What is the logic of banging DOWN on a crankshaft to remove a flywheel?

James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:29:12 -0700, Bob F wrote:

James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:

you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.

Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that
doesn't mean I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable
crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses
me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my
experience dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this
Craftsman 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).


Every mower I've done this to has been a B&S engine. And it has
always worked. Sometimes quicker than others, but every single time.
And I've never broken anything.

But then, I was never reefing on the pry bar, since to only point is
to lift the crank by whatever play it has so it can move when you
tap. Each time you tap, the flywheel lifts a tiny bit, until it pops
loose.


Hi Bob,
On the Briggs and Stratton web site, they explain the use of the
flywheel puller.

In the owners manual, they show a picture and the part number for the
flywheel puller.

While I definitely see "tradition" has it that almost everyone (except
Sears and Briggs and Stratton) recommends banging on the flywheel,
that's NOT the way to remove the flywheel on my Craftsman Briggs and
Stratton engine!

This video shows the (wrong) traditional method:
http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/Bri...wheel_removal/

This is the $7.50 flywheel puller (Briggs & Stratton P/N: BS 19069):
http://farmex.now.tc/catalog/product...oducts_id=2368
http://tewarehouse.com/7-05979
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/service_tools2.cfm

The owners manual (page 38 & 39) show this as Sears P/N: 19069:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=htt...fRWxQAo5_C_ A

Point is, banging on this type of Briggs & Stratton engine is sheer
folly when there is a perfectly cheap and effective method.

Even the Briggs and Stratton web site says (at least for their racing
engines) the ONLY way to remove a flywheel is to use a flywheel
puller.

So, I'm just letting folks know the lessons learned. I asked. I got
advice. Most of it was wrong. But some of it was dead on right. I
made mistakes. I learned. I found out, the hard way, the right way.
And I'm letting folks know.

The only thing that had confused me was how the old way was supposed
to work (logically that is) ... and it turns out that it does work
... but it's the wrong method to use for these Briggs and Stratton
engines.


There must be 100 special tools that are "required" to work on things I've
worked on. I've done just fine without once buying them, thank you. Just because
a manufacturer sells a tool for a job does not make that the "right way". And
just because you say it does not make it so either. If it does the job without
damage and is quick and cheap - it's the right way. Especially if it avoids
having to order and pay, and wiat for a special tool.





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On Jul 12, 4:49*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 06:18:14 -0700 (PDT), Harry K wrote:
you were given clear, explicit explanations of why it works
and also that it is a common method of accomplishing the goal.


Hi Harry K,
I might have been given clear explicit explanations; but that doesn't mean
I understand the logic of banging down on the immovable crankshaft.

The fact that so many people suggested that "common method", yet the
experience I had (where it couldn't possibly work) is what confuses me.

I fully appreciate prying UP on the flywheel (although, as my experience
dictates, that's the absolutely wrong approach for this Craftsman 3.5 HP
Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine).

So far I've heard that banging down on the flywheel "momentarily deforms"
the crankshaft ... and that ... somehow ... magically? ... allows the
flywheel to pop up on the tapered shaft.


Asking the same question here, and getting the same answers, isn't
going to change anything.

To add something that hasn't been mentioned (or I didn't see it). The
inertia delivered by the hammer affects the crankshaft, not the
flywheel (you are preventing it from moving).

At the end of the day you will just have to accept the fact that it
does work when done properly and won't cause damage to anything.

Harry K
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On Jul 11, 11:19*pm, "James H." wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


Why were you anywhere near the intake manifold, you should have been
leveraging against the main chassis of the engine!!!
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Try it.... has worked for me, for years. Yes, the
crank shaft goes down.

The fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft is a
slow taper. You only have to bump the crankshaft
down 1/8 inch or less, and then the friction fit between
the two shears. And the flywheel lifts off.

I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down
on the flywheel.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"James H." wrote in message
...
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order
to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower
that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then
not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent
flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and
easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller
but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to
bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft
and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake
manifold, for example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft
when you want to move the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt'
going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears,
to me, to be a useless endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the
flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that?


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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:55:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Yes, the crank shaft goes down.

I wonder WHERE it goes as there is nowhere "down" to go.

One end of the crankshaft is sticking up in the air with the nut loosly put
back on (to protect the threads) while the other end is firmly attached to
the lawn mower blade. The piston is in the middle.

Where "down" can it go?

You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less


That's a LOT of distance for an immovable flywheel. Do you bump it back UP
1/8th of an inch when you reassemble?

I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down
on the flywheel.


I agree. What everyone said (and what utterly failed for me) was to pry UP
on the flywheel and bang DOWN on the crankshaft.

What worked (for me) was to tap the pre-existing holes and lift up on the
flywheel leveraging on the center of the crankshaft with a harmonic
balancer puller with two 1/4 x 20 bolts and washers (that bent like potato
chips from the force).


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On Jul 12, 5:07*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:55:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Yes, the crank shaft goes down.


I wonder WHERE it goes as there is nowhere "down" to go.

One end of the crankshaft is sticking up in the air with the nut loosly put
back on (to protect the threads) while the other end is firmly attached to
the lawn mower blade. The piston is in the middle.

Where "down" can it go?

You only have to bump the crankshaft down 1/8 inch or less


That's a LOT of distance for an immovable flywheel. Do you bump it back UP
1/8th of an inch when you reassemble?

I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down
on the flywheel.


I agree. What everyone said (and what utterly failed for me) was to pry UP
on the flywheel and bang DOWN on the crankshaft.

What worked (for me) was to tap the pre-existing holes and lift up on the
flywheel leveraging on the center of the crankshaft with a harmonic
balancer puller with two 1/4 x 20 bolts and washers (that bent like potato
chips from the force).


The 1/8" was a gross exageration. It is only a few thousandths but
that is all that is needed. There is _no_ mechanical assemblage that
does not have a bit of "play" in it.

Harry K

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On Jul 12, 6:55*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Try it.... has worked for me, for years. Yes, the
crank shaft goes down.

The fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft is a
slow taper. You only have to bump the crankshaft
down 1/8 inch or less, and then the friction fit between
the two shears. And the flywheel lifts off.

I rather doubt that anyone has advised to bang down
on the flywheel.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"James H." wrote in message

...
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order
to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower
that hit an obstruction and started running badly and then
not at all. You guys correctly ascertained it was a bent
flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and
easily removed the flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller
but only after I broke the intake manifold in half trying to
bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft
and prying up with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake
manifold, for example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft
when you want to move the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt'
going to go up when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears,
to me, to be a useless endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the
flywheel ... may I ask what is the logic in that?


Why don't you just accept the _fact_ that it has worked when done
properly since B&S engines were first built? That it is also done by
almost every small engine mechanic that has ever worked on them? You
have been given clear explanations on why it works, You are just being
obstinate in refusing to believe them.

Harry K
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On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, James H. wrote:

What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?



They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you
don't mess up the thread at the top. The physic is shock as in an impact
wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less
chance of breaking things. In the plumbing business there is the term
"warming up a pipe joint" when using steel pipe and fittings to loosen
the joint by banging on it when you can't wrench it apart. Same thing
with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a
hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all
interrelated.
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On Jul 12, 10:57*am, Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?


They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you
don't mess up the thread at the top. The physic is shock as in an impact
wrench will drive the screw tighter or looser with less effort and less
chance of breaking things. In the plumbing business there is the term
"warming up a pipe joint" when using steel pipe and fittings to loosen
the joint by banging on it when you can't wrench it apart. Same thing
with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen. Smacking it down on a
hard surface loosens it enough that you can then unscrew it. They are all
interrelated.


"Same thing with a lid on a glass jar that you can't loosen.
Smacking it down on a hard surface loosens it enough that you can then
unscrew it. They are all interrelated."

I dunno...

I always smack the bottom of the jar with the heel of my hand and
listen for the "crack".

It's my understanding that that releases the vacuum that keeps the jar
sealed tight.

I'm guessing that there is no vacuum involved in the removal of a fly-
wheel.

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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:57:21 +0000 (UTC), Jeff The Drunk wrote:
They make a tool you can screw on the end of the crank to bang on so you
don't mess up the thread at the top.


I bought that tool; it was useless.

The physic is shock as in an impact wrench will drive the screw
tighter or looser with less effort and less chance of breaking things.


While this shock and awe effect didn't work for me, I do understand what
you're implying.

Basically, from Physics 101 back in college, dynamic friction is less than
static friction.

So, what you're saying, I think, is by banging on the flywheel (actually
banging on anything would work as well), you set up vibrations, which allow
things to move with just a little bit less friction.

Well, at least that explanation makes sense. It didn't work. But it makes
sense!


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On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


Tradition.

Passed down by generations.
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And misquoted by some. Mower repairmen don't bang down on the
flywheel.

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"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Jul 2010 21:19:22 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ...
may I
ask what is the logic in that?


Tradition.

Passed down by generations.


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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:09:52 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

And misquoted by some. Mower repairmen don't bang down on the
flywheel.


The OP's subject is bangin' his crank. He mis-spoke about the
flywheel.

No one suggested he bang the flywheel

Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

No one suggested he bang the flywheel
Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.


Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank.

So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following
logic:

1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ...

2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ...

I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch,
where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston;
and the other end has a blade attached.

If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it
back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on?
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:51:18 -0700, "James H."
wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote:

No one suggested he bang the flywheel
Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.


Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank.

So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following
logic:

1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ...

2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ...

I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch,
where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston;
and the other end has a blade attached.

If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it
back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on?


When you hit the crank -- do it with the mower on the lawn turf. That
is what takes up the shock, No the crank will _not_ move 1/8" --
forget that!

Soil will cushion the blows better than a driveway.

Logic can be from tradition.


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On Jul 12, 5:51*pm, "James H." wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:27:15 -0700, Oren wrote:
No one suggested he bang the flywheel
Like I said before, it's tradition to bang on the crank.


Mea culpa on the banging of the flywheel. I meant on the crank.

So far, this "tradition", passed down by generators, has the following
logic:

1. One said the vibrations lessen the friction slightly ...

2. Another said it moves the crankshaft DOWN 1/8 of an inch ...

I wonder if you actually do move the crankshaft down by 1/8 of an inch,
where does it go? At one end is the flywheel; in the middle is the piston;
and the other end has a blade attached.

If it moves down 1/8th of an inch, where does all that go? Do you move it
back UP 1/8th of an inch when you put the new flywheel back on?


Again, the one who said 1/8" misspoke. It is only a few thousandths.

Harry K
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James H. wrote:
What is the logic of banging DOWN on a lawnmower crankshaft in order to
lift a flywheel UP?

In another thread, I asked about how to repair a lawnmower that hit an
obstruction and started running badly and then not at all. You guys
correctly ascertained it was a bent flywheel pin (mine was shaped like a
Z).

I tapped two holes in the flywheel with a 1/4x20 tap and easily removed the
flywheel with a harmonic balancer puller but only after I broke the intake
manifold in half trying to bang down on the crankshaft as I pryed up with a
pry bar.

In the end, I conclude that banging down on the crankshaft and prying up
with a pry bar is the wrong advice ...
(1) Prying up with a prybar can easily destroy the intake manifold, for
example ...
(2) Banging down on the crankshaft appears useless to me

My question:
Why do people recommend banging DOWN on a crankshaft when you want to move
the flywheel UP?

What's the logic?

The crankshaft isn't going to go down and the flywheel isnt' going to go up
when you bang on the crankshaft. It appears, to me, to be a useless
endeavor.

But, since so many people have said to bang DOWN on the flywheel ... may I
ask what is the logic in that?


If after everyone answers you for the second time, you will either now
understand, OR you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics. And along with that understanding, you will admit to yourself
that you picked a stupid ass place to pry and your broken intake is your
fault and not due to anyones suggestions here.
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On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote:

you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics.


Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic understanding
of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree that the explanations
given so far are, shall we say, problematic.

So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have (only) two
different reasons proposed for banging down on the crankshaft.

1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the crankshaft.

2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the
flywheel up 1/8th of an inch.

Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I err),
I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are problematic.

The problem with hypothesis #1:
- If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and perhaps
more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack (lightly) the
flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade. I guess vibrating
the crankshaft from the top is easier than vibrating the crankshaft from
the bottom; but what I'm saying is that vibrations don't have to come
directly from the top of the crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere
near as successful as simply pulling the flywheel up.

The problem with hypothesis #2:
- If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when
you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you pop it
back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine correctly, the
flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade is on the other,
with the piston in the middle. If you move the crankshaft down 1/8th of an
inch, aren't you moving the entire apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't
you have to then move it back UP 1/8th of an inch?

Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the
crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some reason); I
just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of engine that I have
(which is designed to be removed by tapping the pre-existing flywheel holes
and pulling up leveraging down on the crankshaft).
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James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote:

you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics.


Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic
understanding of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree
that the explanations given so far are, shall we say, problematic.

So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have
(only) two different reasons proposed for banging down on the
crankshaft.

1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the
crankshaft.

2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the
flywheel up 1/8th of an inch.

Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I
err), I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are
problematic.

The problem with hypothesis #1:
- If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and
perhaps more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack
(lightly) the flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade.
I guess vibrating the crankshaft from the top is easier than
vibrating the crankshaft from the bottom; but what I'm saying is that
vibrations don't have to come directly from the top of the
crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere near as successful as
simply pulling the flywheel up.

The problem with hypothesis #2:
- If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when
you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you
pop it back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine
correctly, the flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade
is on the other, with the piston in the middle. If you move the
crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, aren't you moving the entire
apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't you have to then move it back
UP 1/8th of an inch?

Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the
crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some
reason); I just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of
engine that I have (which is designed to be removed by tapping the
pre-existing flywheel holes and pulling up leveraging down on the
crankshaft).



Whoosh!!!!


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On Jul 12, 8:17*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
James H. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:44:23 -0400, Tony wrote:


you should come to the realization that you have no
knowledge and no apparent learning ability for basic mechanics and
physics.


Well, I've taken Physics 101 in college, so, I have a basic
understanding of static and dynamic friction. But I don't disagree
that the explanations given so far are, shall we say, problematic.


So far (please correct me if I state this incorrectly), we have
(only) two different reasons proposed for banging down on the
crankshaft.


1. The vibrations loosen the fit between the flywheel and the
crankshaft.


2. Moving the crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, in effect, moves the
flywheel up 1/8th of an inch.


Assuming these are the only proposed reasons (again, correct me if I
err), I reply that both answers are "understandable"; but both are
problematic.


The problem with hypothesis #1:
- If vibrations are what we're after, we could just as well (and
perhaps more safely) smack the red shroud on the lawnmower; or smack
(lightly) the flywheel itself; or smack the sturdier lawnmower blade.
I guess vibrating the crankshaft from the top is easier than
vibrating the crankshaft from the bottom; but what I'm saying is that
vibrations don't have to come directly from the top of the
crankshaft. In my case, it wasn't anywhere near as successful as
simply pulling the flywheel up.


The problem with hypothesis #2:
- If moving the crankshaft DOWN is the goal, well what do you do when
you're done? Now your crankshaft is 1/8th of an inch too low. Do you
pop it back up from the blade side? If I understand the engine
correctly, the flywheel is on one end of the crankshaft and the blade
is on the other, with the piston in the middle. If you move the
crankshaft down 1/8th of an inch, aren't you moving the entire
apparatus down 1/8th of an inch? Don't you have to then move it back
UP 1/8th of an inch?


Having said all this, I do recognize MANY people bang down on the
crankshaft (just as people kick the tires of used cars for some
reason); I just can't fathom any practical reason for the type of
engine that I have (which is designed to be removed by tapping the
pre-existing flywheel holes and pulling up leveraging down on the
crankshaft).


Whoosh!!!!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


And very repeatedly. That wall should be almost destroyed by now.

Harry K


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