Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:



If you are going to do this, I'd attach the chain using a double
connection, one
high (a few feet above roof line), and one lower (a few feet below
roof line, on
a single chain. Have the chain running through a metal loop so it
can slide, then attach that loop with another chain to the vehicle.
This should lessen the
bending moment on the middle of the trunk and still give you good
mechanical advantage.

Thanks, that sounds good.


How long has the tree been dead? If it has been long, the risk of
sudden fracture is higher.

Don't know.


You could set up the rope system, apply pressure, then cut the base
so that the
pivot direction will be towards the truck, so that the tree is
unlikely to land
on the deck. I did this last summer with a living maple which was
growing less
than a foot from the rail of a deck several feet above the ground.
(10-12" base)
I also attacked a cable to the trunk above and below the cut (about
6 feet up)
to keep the trunk from dropping after it fell, to protect a hydranga
under the
falling trunk. I tensioned the rope to the tree with a come-along
attached to a
tree 50 feet away using wide webbing to avoid damageing that tree.

I made the cut, not so far that it fell, but it started to make
cracking noises.
I then went out to the tensioned rope, grabbed it, and started
rocking the tree
by putting my weight onto the rope. A few pulls, and the tree fell
over exactly
as planned, and the trunk stopped above the hydranga. I cut away
most of the unsupporting branches, and propped the trunk up with a
couple of the cut branches. I then removed the cable holding the
trunk up, and guided the trunk pivoting on the supports as a few
friends pulled the top of the tree away from
the deck and over the hydranga. I then cut the remaining stump down
to rounds,
ending a few inches above the ground, and covered that with dirt to
rot it away
over the years.

If you don't absolutely need the roots pulled out of the ground,
something like
the above might be more likely to work if you know the basics about
cutting trees.

Thanks for the details. I may go this route if I don't end up hiring a
professional.

Double think everything with the tree leaning as it is.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Erik wrote:


Hmmm... after viewing the photos, I take back the trough and water
idea... I had imagined this tree more out in the middle of a
yard/field. This one is way too close to the house.

I think this one will need to be removed by conventional means.

Sorry, Erik, no take-backs allowed on usenet. I was liking the trough
and water approach.

Keep in mind that if you really do succeed in pulling the roots out, they will
probably damage that deck in the process.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:

That's a big fucin' tree.

I think the biggest I've ever dealt with was a 30'....maybe 40'. My
neighbors has (about) a 40' dead tree I could chop up it in 1 or 2
hours, but he'd have to give me some serious cash to do it. It ain't
gonna fall on my property. Rare excuse to use my rock climbing gear.
It's a rush hanging from a harness with a chain saw. I think: "This
is crazy. This is crazy!" while I do it. Usually something real
exciting happens, like a branch falls where you don't expect it.

Tieing myself up in a dead tree wouldn't be my first choice.



Not for everybody.

That's nothing compared to what I've done rock climbing or jumping dirt
bikes.

Jim

"Bob F" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-
BTW- there aren't any utilities going to your house that might be
tangled in those roots, are there? It would suck to make the
perfect extraction, then see your water, sewer, gas, phone, cable, or
power line popped apart in the rootball.

Jim


That would suck. I seriously doubt there are utilities there, but I'll
double check.

There's a "call before you dig" number to call for that, most places.


Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. I'd probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
-snip-
Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. I'd probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

The roots have no doubt already located any utilities for him. Bear in
mind that the root system of that tree probably goes all the way
across the house under the foundation. Doesn't really matter where the
utilies are. This tree is likely involved.

I disagree- but I hope Smitty reports when the job is done. I'd wager
the roots don't travel much more than 4-5 feet from the tree. And
they certainly wouldn't travel under the foundation. I predict 2
feet deep, max. [Do we know where this house is? I'm judging by
New York birches.]

Jim

On Dec 3, 3:17*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:56:50 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:





wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
-snip-
Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. * I'd probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

The roots have no doubt already located any utilities for him. Bear in
mind that the root system of that tree probably goes all the way
across the house under the foundation. Doesn't really matter where the
utilies are. This tree is likely involved.

I disagree- but I hope Smitty reports when the job is done. *I'd wager
the roots don't travel much more than 4-5 feet from the tree. *And
they certainly wouldn't travel under the foundation. * I predict 2
feet deep, max. * [Do we know where this house is? * *I'm judging by
New York birches.]

Jim

General rule that applies to ALL deciduous trees: root system extends
to approximately 150% of drip line. In other words, if the canopy of
the tree when healthy extended 10 feet from the trunk, the roots
extend 15 feet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Based on the pictures I'd cut it off at the ground and let the stump
rot. It's too close to other stuff. As it rots the ground will sink
a bit but it's not really a big deal to toss in a little more dirt
every few years. Going to take some work to keep it from falling the
wrong way but it's doable.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:12:31 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

If one birch died there, will another?

We've got *lots* of birch on our property, and there's always a few
falling down and more new ones growing in their place. No idea if bugs get
to them, or if woodpeckers, deer etc. do, or if it's soil conditions, or
if it's just "their time".

We've got one that leans at about a 45 degree angle, and I don't know how
it manages to survive every storm...

cheers

Jules

Smitty Two wrote:
She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.


White Birch doesn't normally have a long lifespan. And as you can see,
it grows to big for that area. Get a Japanese Maple, they grow slower
and you can get some that stay on the small side.

Master Betty wrote:

"Tony" wrote in message
...

I've done that a few times but usually the stump/root area has stones
stuck in the wood. Last one I did I had to stop and sharpen the chain
at least 6 times before I got it an inch or two below the grade. Then
again it was a 70' red oak which leaves quite a bit of trunk to deal
with. It's in part of the driveway to my newish garage. I figure
after a few years I'll have to add a couple shovels of stone there
each year or so as it decomposes.



That's a big fucin' tree.

I live in the woods. I used to guess some trees were over 100' but when
I cut one down I measured it. About 75' is the maximum height of the
trees here.

I think the biggest I've ever dealt with was a 30'....maybe 40'. My
neighbors has (about) a 40' dead tree I could chop up it in 1 or 2
hours, but he'd have to give me some serious cash to do it. It ain't
gonna fall on my property. Rare excuse to use my rock climbing gear.
It's a rush hanging from a harness with a chain saw. I think: "This is
crazy. This is crazy!" while I do it. Usually something real exciting
happens, like a branch falls where you don't expect it.

This guy has the gear but not the brains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGN5x...eature=related

I do quite well putting a rope up high and pulling it to the left,
right, or straight with a come-a-long, then cut it. Because you never
know when the wind will blow it the wrong way. When it starts to fall I
get the hell out of the way cause you never know how it's gonna bounce
or kick back.

Bob F wrote:
Master Betty wrote:

That's a big fucin' tree.

I think the biggest I've ever dealt with was a 30'....maybe 40'. My
neighbors has (about) a 40' dead tree I could chop up it in 1 or 2
hours, but he'd have to give me some serious cash to do it. It ain't
gonna fall on my property. Rare excuse to use my rock climbing gear.
It's a rush hanging from a harness with a chain saw. I think: "This
is crazy. This is crazy!" while I do it. Usually something real
exciting happens, like a branch falls where you don't expect it.

Tieing myself up in a dead tree wouldn't be my first choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGN5x...eature=related

Some people die this way. If the top swings around as it falls/bounces
it can crush the person.

wrote:
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:13:12 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:


-snip-
Well, Jim, you seem to be the only one who thinks this is at least
theoretically feasible, based in part on your specific knowledge of the
species in question. (I'm not interpreting that as a rubber stamp of
approval.) I'm going to gnaw it over a bit more.
yeahbut. . Now that I've seen where it sits, I'm less enthusiastic.

IF you can pull it in the direction it is leaning, you'll be helping
yourself immensely.

IF you can get your hands on a demolition hammer with a clay spade you
could make quick work of the small roots that are on the back side.
cut a semi-circle 12-18" deep, about 2-3' away from the trunk.

Don't even think about using a rope. Use a heavy log chain. I'd go
8' high. Lessens the likelyhood of the thing snapping into 3 parts
and the loose part impaling the house. It also gives you a better
angle for your automobile.

If you can find someone with a 4wd truck & a nice high trailer hitch,
that would do better on the angle. [you're going to have to cart
the roots away anyway- they won't go in your Tacoma]

Then rock the thing while watching the root bal. Trim roots as
necessary.

Even at all that- it is iffy, and you're in for a day or two of hard
work.

I'd ride around the neighborhood looking for a backhoe at work. Stop
and ask the guy if he'd take that tree with him on the way home when
that job is done. It is a 1hr job that he doesn't even have to load
the machinery for.

Or. . . for a really good time- rent a backhoe for a day. My local
Ace store rents them for $300 or so for 24hours- delivered and picked
up. You must have some other hole that needs digging, eh?

Jim

If using chains, hang a couple old tires on the chain and if it snaps
they will drop the chain very quickly.

Used to do this all the time when pulling stuff on the farm, and on
the old tow truck. (cable, not chain)

Good idea, I hope I remember it.

"Master Betty" wrote

That's nothing compared to what I've done rock climbing or jumping dirt
bikes.

Jim


I was once young, ten feet tall, and bulletproof. A 560# ATV stomped my
ass. Now, I'm older, and half an inch shorter from a broken back. I'm
lucky I can still walk. I don't know about the bulletproofness, either. Do
it while you can, cuz one day you'll either **** up, or be too old, or both.

I've done some incredible stuff in my life, too, but won't bore you here.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Master Betty" wrote

That's nothing compared to what I've done rock climbing or jumping dirt
bikes.

Jim


I was once young, ten feet tall, and bulletproof. A 560# ATV stomped my
ass. Now, I'm older, and half an inch shorter from a broken back. I'm
lucky I can still walk. I don't know about the bulletproofness, either.
Do it while you can, cuz one day you'll either **** up, or be too old, or
both.

I've done some incredible stuff in my life, too, but won't bore you here.

Steve


Pulled an Ozzy?

I'm 55 and always thinking about getting a new dirt bike. That stuff gets in
your blood.

I've been incredibly lucky. A few back problems but still getting around.
Wouldn't change a thing. Still looking for someone to take me hang-gliding.

Jim

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:17:00 -0500, Tony
wrote:

This guy has the gear but not the brains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGN5x...eature=related

How so? Many pine trees a topped in this exact method. Expect the tree
to sway when topped at that height.

Oh, be strapped in. Sink the spurs in good. Hold on and ride it out.

A nephew is pictured topping a 60' pine. His father was an Arborist
and taught him well. I learned from brother as well.

On Dec 3, 10:12*am, "Bob F" wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. *and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. * But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. * * Has she picked out a tree? * *what is she
looking for in a tree? * shade? *looks? *berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

If one birch died there, will another?


I have a few birches in my yard....planted in 1980. In the last few
years a couple have died as have some others in the neighborhood. I
happened to talk the one of the city's arboritist ....according to him
birches are suggest to insects & rot and once they start to "go"
that's it.

imo select a disease resistant specimen...the arboritist suggested
some sort of chinese pear (?)

and dont plant a tree so close to the house!

cheers
Bob

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:17:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:56:50 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
-snip-
Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. I'd probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

The roots have no doubt already located any utilities for him. Bear in
mind that the root system of that tree probably goes all the way
across the house under the foundation. Doesn't really matter where the
utilies are. This tree is likely involved.

I disagree- but I hope Smitty reports when the job is done. I'd wager
the roots don't travel much more than 4-5 feet from the tree. And
they certainly wouldn't travel under the foundation. I predict 2
feet deep, max. [Do we know where this house is? I'm judging by
New York birches.]

Jim

General rule that applies to ALL deciduous trees: root system extends
to approximately 150% of drip line. In other words, if the canopy of
the tree when healthy extended 10 feet from the trunk, the roots
extend 15 feet.

With MANY, those roots are no more than 1 foot below surface. Any deep
roots are generally less than 16 feet in diameter.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:51:30 -0600, Jules
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:12:31 -0800, Bob F wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

If one birch died there, will another?

We've got *lots* of birch on our property, and there's always a few
falling down and more new ones growing in their place. No idea if bugs get
to them, or if woodpeckers, deer etc. do, or if it's soil conditions, or
if it's just "their time".

We've got one that leans at about a 45 degree angle, and I don't know how
it manages to survive every storm...

cheers

Jules

Google Emerald Birch Borer.

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-
Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

My guess-- and I'm a long way from there-- is the tree was weakened by
not being able to get enough water- then 'whatever' got to it. There
isn't enough space between driveway, foundation & deck to really hold
a lot a of water. Birches like to keep their feet wet.

A dwarf Japanese maple might work there-- I'm not real familiar with
them. Take your photos to a local [to the house] landscape place &
get their opinion. They know the local climate & problems. [things
like- "Oh yeah, birch blight came through here a few years ago &
nobody can keep one alive for more than a year anymore." ]


You want something with a small root system and can stand a drought.

I'd be thinking shrubs, vines, or some yard-art--- but I don't live
with your wife.g

Jim

Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?

I just have to say it. 2 days down & over 1200 mostly on topic
replies.

What is this group coming to?g

Jim

"Master Betty" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Master Betty" wrote

That's nothing compared to what I've done rock climbing or jumping dirt
bikes.

Jim


I was once young, ten feet tall, and bulletproof. A 560# ATV stomped my
ass. Now, I'm older, and half an inch shorter from a broken back. I'm
lucky I can still walk. I don't know about the bulletproofness, either.
Do it while you can, cuz one day you'll either **** up, or be too old, or
both.

I've done some incredible stuff in my life, too, but won't bore you here.

Steve


Pulled an Ozzy?

I'm 55 and always thinking about getting a new dirt bike. That stuff gets
in your blood.

I've been incredibly lucky. A few back problems but still getting around.
Wouldn't change a thing. Still looking for someone to take me
hang-gliding.

Jim

Nah, hit a cap at the top of a mesa on a vertical up run. Wheelied back
over on me. As I heard it, Oz just drove to the other side of the yard and
crashed into neighbor's fence. Do what you can while you can, because one
day, you eihter can't move, or SWMBO will have you tied down with modern
restraints.

Steve

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?

I just have to say it. 2 days down & over 1200 mostly on topic
replies.

What is this group coming to?g

Jim

1200? You're not talking about this thread, are you? Those google
groupers must be procreating at an alarming rate. (A few of them have
made it to my whitelist, but not many.)

On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 18:03:42 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

On Dec 3, 10:12*am, "Bob F" wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. *and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. * But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. * * Has she picked out a tree? * *what is she
looking for in a tree? * shade? *looks? *berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

If one birch died there, will another?


I have a few birches in my yard....planted in 1980. In the last few
years a couple have died as have some others in the neighborhood. I
happened to talk the one of the city's arboritist ....according to him
birches are suggest to insects & rot and once they start to "go"
that's it.

imo select a disease resistant specimen...the arboritist suggested
some sort of chinese pear (?)

and dont plant a tree so close to the house!

cheers
Bob

River Birch is a lot tougher but you trade off the white color to get
the longer life.

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:16:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:17:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:56:50 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
-snip-
Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. I'd probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

The roots have no doubt already located any utilities for him. Bear in
mind that the root system of that tree probably goes all the way
across the house under the foundation. Doesn't really matter where the
utilies are. This tree is likely involved.

I disagree- but I hope Smitty reports when the job is done. I'd wager
the roots don't travel much more than 4-5 feet from the tree. And
they certainly wouldn't travel under the foundation. I predict 2
feet deep, max. [Do we know where this house is? I'm judging by
New York birches.]

Jim

General rule that applies to ALL deciduous trees: root system extends
to approximately 150% of drip line. In other words, if the canopy of
the tree when healthy extended 10 feet from the trunk, the roots
extend 15 feet.

With MANY, those roots are no more than 1 foot below surface. Any deep
roots are generally less than 16 feet in diameter.

Obviously you have never dug any sump holes in a basement. If there
are trees near the house, there are roots under the foundation. I
promise!

wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:16:50 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:17:37 -0500, wrote:


-snip-
General rule that applies to ALL deciduous trees: root system extends
to approximately 150% of drip line. In other words, if the canopy of
the tree when healthy extended 10 feet from the trunk, the roots
extend 15 feet.

With MANY, those roots are no more than 1 foot below surface. Any deep
roots are generally less than 16 feet in diameter.

Obviously you have never dug any sump holes in a basement. If there
are trees near the house, there are roots under the foundation. I
promise!

TWIAVBP so I won't say there are never roots reaching out under a
foundation- but. . .

Sump holes, hell- I've been lowering the floor in my basement from 6
to 8.5 feet for the past 20 years or so.

I have an 100foot tall oak that overhangs one end of the house- a
60foot silver maple at the other, and a 30 foot tall ash in the middle
on the south side. The soil is damp clay at the basement level. The
only roots I've found were on the end where an addition was placed
over the root system of another silver maple that I've since removed.
That end had a crawl space when I started. No roots were deeper
than 3 feet or so. And there weren't many of them.

Jim

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:58:25 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-

I just have to say it. 2 days down & over 1200 mostly on topic
replies.

What is this group coming to?g

Jim

1200? You're not talking about this thread, are you? Those google
groupers must be procreating at an alarming rate. (A few of them have
made it to my whitelist, but not many.)

Sheesh- gotta quit typing in the afternoon-- My finger stuttered-
120, not 1200.

Jim

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 21:17:56 -0500, clare wrote:
We've got *lots* of birch on our property, and there's always a few
falling down and more new ones growing in their place. No idea if bugs get
to them, or if woodpeckers, deer etc. do, or if it's soil conditions, or
if it's just "their time".

Google Emerald Birch Borer.

Could be... but we get lots of deer wandering through the yard, and I've
seen several woodpeckers attacking the birches so know they definitely do
*some* damage. I just let nature run its course though (although I'm a bit
more protective over the Oaks) - I'll get a new wood furnace at some point
and anything that comes down can go on the wood pile (I think Birch is
supposed to be "somewhere in the middle" when it comes to useful wood for
burning)

cheers

Jules

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Hell Toupee" wrote in message
...
Smitty Two wrote:
In article , Hell Toupee wrote:


I went to do this with a dying 20-foot apple tree and a little Mazda 323
hatchback. Borrowed a mooring rope from the next door neighbor, drove
the 323 into the back yard and tied the rope under the bumper. Knotted
the other end around the tree trunk. Holding the rope while paying it
out, I walked back towards the car. Pulled a little on the rope and ...
the tree rocked. Hmmm. So at that point, I ignored the car and just
stood there, yanking rhythmically on the rope, rocking the tree back and
forth, back and forth. (The neighbors were watching, of course.) Finally
the tree crashed down. I put my foot on its trunk, beat on my chest, and
gave my best Tarzan yell.
Hey, I had an audience. And were they impressed.

(And was I ever lucky...)

So the roots came out and all, or it snapped?

Turned out most of the roots had rotted away. The tree had only one live
branch left on it, and the ground was moist and soft, which is why I
thought I'd try giving it a tug with the car and see what would happen. I
thought it might at least heave it a little out of the ground, and then I
could tackle the exposed roots with a chain saw. Instead, there was so
little root structure left, it came down just from my tugging the rope.
Amazing.

Smitty, I would suggest you try this approach, too. If you was me, you'd be
better looking. No, I meant to say, it I was you, I'd hook up to your tree
high up, and take a good strain on it, and look particularly what the ground
does around the tree. If it gives, it is an indication that the tree is
ready to come down, and a good tug from the vehicle may do it. However, I
would bring down the attachment point to about twelve feet. Just don't
overdo it and snap it. Remember, you are just trying to assess the
situation, and not pull the tree down. Allow for long enough chain/rope so
that the top doesn't land on the vehicle. Not that you'd do that on purpose.
If the root ball is in there solid, then go to plan B. Or C. Or even D.

Steve

Yeah, perhaps I'll cut the branches and give it a try. Unfortunately I
can't pull with a vehicle in the direction the tree is leaning.

In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

If one birch died there, will another?

Maybe. The house was vacant for over two years (we bought it as an REO)
so it may have died from lack of water.

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

-snip-
Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

My guess-- and I'm a long way from there-- is the tree was weakened by
not being able to get enough water- then 'whatever' got to it. There
isn't enough space between driveway, foundation & deck to really hold
a lot a of water. Birches like to keep their feet wet.

A dwarf Japanese maple might work there-- I'm not real familiar with
them. Take your photos to a local [to the house] landscape place &
get their opinion. They know the local climate & problems. [things
like- "Oh yeah, birch blight came through here a few years ago &
nobody can keep one alive for more than a year anymore." ]


You want something with a small root system and can stand a drought.

I'd be thinking shrubs, vines, or some yard-art--- but I don't live
with your wife.g

Jim

Yeah, well I don't live with her either. At least not yet, but we did
buy the house together. Since she does like Japanese Maples, I think I
can sell her on not putting in another birch in that spot.

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
-snip-
Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. I'd probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

The roots have no doubt already located any utilities for him. Bear in
mind that the root system of that tree probably goes all the way
across the house under the foundation. Doesn't really matter where the
utilies are. This tree is likely involved.

I disagree- but I hope Smitty reports when the job is done. I'd wager
the roots don't travel much more than 4-5 feet from the tree. And
they certainly wouldn't travel under the foundation. I predict 2
feet deep, max. [Do we know where this house is? I'm judging by
New York birches.]

Jim

San Joaquin Valley (central california.) And I'll definitely post a
follow-up on this whenever I get to actually doing something, even it's
calling a professional.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.
This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?
She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.
If one birch died there, will another?

Maybe. The house was vacant for over two years (we bought it as an REO)
so it may have died from lack of water.

After a tree is a few years old it shouldn't require any water besides
rain. If it does, it's the wrong tree in the wrong place.

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:17:00 -0500, Tony
wrote:

This guy has the gear but not the brains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGN5x...eature=related

How so? Many pine trees a topped in this exact method. Expect the tree
to sway when topped at that height.

Oh, be strapped in. Sink the spurs in good. Hold on and ride it out.

A nephew is pictured topping a 60' pine. His father was an Arborist
and taught him well. I learned from brother as well.

It appears he cut off more than he could safely handle. Watching the
video confirms that no way in hell did his spurs/spikes straps and
whatever hold him in place.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 11:19:26 -0500, Tony
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:17:00 -0500, Tony
wrote:

This guy has the gear but not the brains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGN5x...eature=related

How so? Many pine trees a topped in this exact method. Expect the tree
to sway when topped at that height.

Oh, be strapped in. Sink the spurs in good. Hold on and ride it out.

A nephew is pictured topping a 60' pine. His father was an Arborist
and taught him well. I learned from brother as well.

It appears he cut off more than he could safely handle. Watching the
video confirms that no way in hell did his spurs/spikes straps and
whatever hold him in place.

Spurs, no-- but his gear kept him in the tree as far as I see. I
thought we were going to see him impaled on that long branch he left
in his face. All in all looks like a days work.

I'm betting he would call that a 'rough ride'. I'm also betting he
chewed hell out of the rope holder[s] who could have minimized the
roughness of the ride. [is that him yelling 'sorry' that you hear?]

Jim

In article ,
Tony wrote:


After a tree is a few years old it shouldn't require any water besides
rain. If it does, it's the wrong tree in the wrong place.

That's what separates us from the other animals on the planet. We love
to put stuff in the wrong place. Why? Because page one of the bible
itself proclaims that we shall "have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." IOW,
our self-destructive egos are blessed by, even created by, the creepy
guy in the sky himself. So we plant trees where they don't belong, and
command them to thrive.

If no one has convinced you not to try, you might enjoy this
story. I wanted to do about the same thing. We have a scrub oak
grove at one of our sites, and one of them died. I thought . . .
this will be easy. The trees are about 60 feet tall, we have an
electrical company pole truck with a 1" steel cable winch. I use
the backhoe to wrap a chain on the tree about 16 feet up in the
tree. Attached the chain to the winch line with plenty of fall
room, set the outriggers down on the winch truck on asphalt. The
tree did not pull over with the truck, it skidded the truck to the
curb. We left the winch in tension and I reached up with the
backhoe to give it a push with the bucket up high, thinking surely
it will go now - but no, that tree was still well anchored.

I ended up digging out the roots and chainsawing several of the
large roots before it finally would come over. We did keel over
most of the root ball and 1/2 dump truck of dirt filled in the
hole nicely. With the winch we could drag the tree out into the
open to saw it up in fireplace size chunks that we stacked at the
curb. It was all magically gone after the weekend.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

wrote:

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:38:01 -0500, Jim Elbrecht

wrote:
-snip-
Very unreliable- especially that close to the house. I'd
probably
give them a try-- but I'd look in the basement and locate all
utilities before trusting them.

Jim

The roots have no doubt already located any utilities for him.
Bear in
mind that the root system of that tree probably goes all the
way
across the house under the foundation. Doesn't really matter
where the
utilies are. This tree is likely involved.

I disagree- but I hope Smitty reports when the job is done.
I'd wager
the roots don't travel much more than 4-5 feet from the tree.
And
they certainly wouldn't travel under the foundation. I
predict 2
feet deep, max. [Do we know where this house is? I'm
judging by
New York birches.]

Jim

San Joaquin Valley (central california.) And I'll definitely
post a
follow-up on this whenever I get to actually doing something,
even it's
calling a professional.

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-
I'd be thinking shrubs, vines, or some yard-art--- but I don't live
with your wife.g

Jim

Yeah, well I don't live with her either. At least not yet, but we did
buy the house together. Since she does like Japanese Maples, I think I
can sell her on not putting in another birch in that spot.

Well-- new house & new marriage. I'd highly recommend hiring a
landscaper to do a walk around with you & your bride to make some
suggestions.

Tell them up front that all you want is some off-the-top-of-their-head
ideas. See what a 1/2 hour walk-around would cost.

Jim

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
-snip-
I'd be thinking shrubs, vines, or some yard-art--- but I don't live
with your wife.g

Jim

Yeah, well I don't live with her either. At least not yet, but we did
buy the house together. Since she does like Japanese Maples, I think I
can sell her on not putting in another birch in that spot.

Well-- new house & new marriage. I'd highly recommend hiring a
landscaper to do a walk around with you & your bride to make some
suggestions.

Tell them up front that all you want is some off-the-top-of-their-head
ideas. See what a 1/2 hour walk-around would cost.

Jim

She's still my g.f. at this point. I think we're too old to get married.
But hopefully I'll eventually figure out a way to make a living in her
city, since she can't move. In the meantime it's fun to go up there once
or twice a month and play house. Last week we painted the master bedroom.

"DanG" wrote in message
...
If no one has convinced you not to try, you might enjoy this story. I
wanted to do about the same thing. We have a scrub oak grove at one of
our sites, and one of them died. I thought . . . this will be easy. The
trees are about 60 feet tall, we have an electrical company pole truck
with a 1" steel cable winch. I use the backhoe to wrap a chain on the
tree about 16 feet up in the tree. Attached the chain to the winch line
with plenty of fall room, set the outriggers down on the winch truck on
asphalt. The tree did not pull over with the truck, it skidded the truck
to the curb. We left the winch in tension and I reached up with the
backhoe to give it a push with the bucket up high, thinking surely it will
go now - but no, that tree was still well anchored.

I ended up digging out the roots and chainsawing several of the large
roots before it finally would come over. We did keel over most of the
root ball and 1/2 dump truck of dirt filled in the hole nicely. With the
winch we could drag the tree out into the open to saw it up in fireplace
size chunks that we stacked at the curb. It was all magically gone after
the weekend.


At my brother in law's north of Houston, they had a huge tree that had been
hit by lightning. It died, and the branches fell off until it was about a
50' vertical shaft. About fifteen feet up was where a big branch came off
when the tree was young, and hornets made a huge nest there. Illegal aliens
from Mars or Mazatlan (I forget which) were hired to take care of the
hornets. They set a fire in the old hole. The fire was still smoldering
days after they cleared out, not even asking for payment.

There was a very weak point there.

Enter the rescuers.

I rigged up a line to the highest point I could throw a rope over a limb.
My BIL got on his big Kubota loader. I made a surgical wedge cut in the
tree on the side I wanted it to fall.

Instead of waiting for me to apply pressure to the rope and make the back
cut, my BIL extends the bucket of the loader and pushes it away from the
wedge, exactly towards the 7200 sf house.

CRACK!

It goes, and I can see it heading towards the house.

CRACK.

The weak point at the hornets nest gives way, and now, there's two
scissoring sections.

I'm waiting for it to hit the Kubota and my BIL. The tree was every bit of
30" diameter.

It cleared everything, the short section going towards the house, but not
reaching it, the long section falling and missing the tractor, and missing a
maze of trees and falling into the only 4' wide trail between the trees.

I swear, it took five minutes in slow motion replays in my mind. It looked
like one of those perfectly timed explosion demolition sequences.

We examined the corpse, and it was all rotten except the outer layer of
about 6" from the ground up.

We all congratulated each other and the women finally quit screaming.

It couldn't have gone better if we planned it, and if we all knew what we
were doing, and did it at the proper moment.

All's well that ends well.

God protects idiots.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
(wonderful tale snipped)
We all congratulated each other and the women finally quit screaming.

It couldn't have gone better if we planned it, and if we all knew what we
were doing, and did it at the proper moment.

All's well that ends well.

God protects idiots.

Steve



Not always, and the older I get, the less anxious to find out my credit
limit.

--
aem sends...

Last summer one of my sons and I pulled a 10 foot oak or maple sapling with
my Jeep Wrangler. We used 1/2" braided nylon rope, doubled, to the towing
hooks on the front bumper. When a steady pull didn't work, I drifted
forward a foot, put my foot down and popped the clutch in 4WD. The car
literally lifted off the ground and swung sideways about a foot before
stopping. The knot in the nylon melted and fused from the friction of
tightening! Yes, that was fun.

Less fun was the actual work of digging down to the roots and sawing through
them. We finally towed out the sapling, but only after cutting through 3
or 4 roots that were as thick as the trunk. I couldn't imagine trying this
on a bigger tree.

What does work is pulling decorative fir bushes that grew to 10 feet. They
had hardly any root system at all. You Ota figure a "real" tree evolved to
withstand big winds....but not chainsaws.