Smitty Two wrote:
Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?

I went to do this with a dying 20-foot apple tree and a little Mazda
323 hatchback. Borrowed a mooring rope from the next door neighbor,
drove the 323 into the back yard and tied the rope under the bumper.
Knotted the other end around the tree trunk. Holding the rope while
paying it out, I walked back towards the car. Pulled a little on the
rope and ... the tree rocked. Hmmm. So at that point, I ignored the
car and just stood there, yanking rhythmically on the rope, rocking
the tree back and forth, back and forth. (The neighbors were watching,
of course.) Finally the tree crashed down. I put my foot on its trunk,
beat on my chest, and gave my best Tarzan yell.
Hey, I had an audience. And were they impressed.

(And was I ever lucky...)

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Tony wrote:
-snip-
It's in a fricken garden for christs sake, so why not cut it down, then
cut it again as low as possible. Then plant flowers around or a vine
over it? You have rocks in there now so why not get a few more or
rearrange them to hide the stump? Actually a lot of gardeners would
leave a few feet of stump for the vines to grow on. Get creative.
-snip-

Although I got caught up in the adventure of pulling the thing down--
that really is the most reasonable way of dealing with it. Especially
with a birch which will completely decompose in a few years.

Cut it down & burn the wood. Use some PT lumber or some landscape
blocks to make a raised bed. [check craigslist- I had to quit picking
them up as I ran out of places to pave with my cheap/free blocks].

Plant lots of fun stuff. It is a bad place for a tree anyway. If you
want shade buy an umbrella- It is portable & there are no leaves to
rake.

Jim

Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me cut
the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?

It just occurred to me that among my house pics would be some that showed
the subject tree, so I posted them. But, now that I look at the pics, I
have to admit that I underestimated the diameter of the thing at the
base.

http://members.cox.net/prestwich/tree1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/prestwich/tree2.jpg

If it were possible to pull it out with the roots, you would also destroy
your nice paved driveway and who knows what to your deck footer.

It's in a fricken garden for christs sake, so why not cut it down, then
cut it again as low as possible. sip

I used to dig out the trunks. Now I just dig out as much as I can and cut
the trunk ground level or below with a chain saw. That's the way most pros
do it around these parts.

Jim

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come
up with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a
few lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10"
diameter and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not
currently on site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can
get most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree.
The plan would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and
hooking the other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty
of clearance around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a
4 wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get
even more chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree
across the street?

It just occurred to me that among my house pics would be some that
showed the subject tree, so I posted them. But, now that I look at the
pics, I have to admit that I underestimated the diameter of the thing
at the base.

http://members.cox.net/prestwich/tree1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/prestwich/tree2.jpg

If you are going to do this, I'd attach the chain using a double connection, one
high (a few feet above roof line), and one lower (a few feet below roof line, on
a single chain. Have the chain running through a metal loop so it can slide,
then attach that loop with another chain to the vehicle. This should lessen the
bending moment on the middle of the trunk and still give you good mechanical
advantage.

How long has the tree been dead? If it has been long, the risk of sudden
fracture is higher.

You could set up the rope system, apply pressure, then cut the base so that the
pivot direction will be towards the truck, so that the tree is unlikely to land
on the deck. I did this last summer with a living maple which was growing less
than a foot from the rail of a deck several feet above the ground. (10-12" base)
I also attacked a cable to the trunk above and below the cut (about 6 feet up)
to keep the trunk from dropping after it fell, to protect a hydranga under the
falling trunk. I tensioned the rope to the tree with a come-along attached to a
tree 50 feet away using wide webbing to avoid damageing that tree.

I made the cut, not so far that it fell, but it started to make cracking noises.
I then went out to the tensioned rope, grabbed it, and started rocking the tree
by putting my weight onto the rope. A few pulls, and the tree fell over exactly
as planned, and the trunk stopped above the hydranga. I cut away most of the
unsupporting branches, and propped the trunk up with a couple of the cut
branches. I then removed the cable holding the trunk up, and guided the trunk
pivoting on the supports as a few friends pulled the top of the tree away from
the deck and over the hydranga. I then cut the remaining stump down to rounds,
ending a few inches above the ground, and covered that with dirt to rot it away
over the years.

If you don't absolutely need the roots pulled out of the ground, something like
the above might be more likely to work if you know the basics about cutting
trees.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

wrote

Unless the tree is ready to fall down on its own, there's no way that
will work. A 6-ton, 150HP tractor would not even wiggle that tree.
There's no way a 3500lb midsize car would do anything but tear itself
apart.

reply:

If you do use a midsize car, be sure to hook it to the plastic bumper and
tape it for youtube.

Steve

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

AW, SMITTY, SAY IT ISN'T SO .................

In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?


Before seriously considering this be sure there are no underground
utility lines or whatever in the area that could be damaged by digging
or root movement.

Having said that, I think if I got liquored up enough to attempt this...
I'd first dig a series 'troughs' radiating out from the trunk maybe 10
feet or so. A few inches deep should be fine. An array of deep post
holes dug within the troughs might also help... The troughs could also
run parallel to one another throughout the trunk area.

I'd then fill said troughs with water, and leave a hose trickling at
such a rate as to keep them full for, oh, maybe a week or more. Fence
off the area! The trough/holes will be nearly invisible in the dark and
very hazardous anyone in the area!

Your mileage may vary considerably, depending on how level the ground is
around the tree, rock content of surrounding soil and water source
availability.

What ever you do, be careful and fully think things out... I have never
done this, or even seen it done on TV. It's just an idea, and not
necessarily a good one. This project isn't worth getting hurt and/or
sued over.

Erik

Oren wrote:

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

Great cautionary tale. That driver was the calmest guy I've ever
seen that just came inches from dying and lost his truck.

Jim

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

Hah. That reminds me of a former boss of mine who once elbowed me out
of the way to take a call about a sick tree. He knew nothing about
trees, but that didn't stop him - he has an ego the size of the
Titanic. So there he was, confidently telling the caller that he
needed a certain chemical to get rid of the "disease orgasms" in the
tree. He just kept on saying "disease orgasms". I was literally on the
floor laughing fit to bust. Suddenly he said, "I beg your pardon - of
course I meant disease ORGANISMS!"

Ah, George. AKA Mr. Lawn.

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me cut
the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
... and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

You can do most anything with a little hard-scaping and some shrubs.

It really is an awful spot for a tree. It makes for problems with
driveway & house-- and doesn't provide a whole lot of room for roots
to wander. [unless the driveway slopes towards the house, it doesn't
look wet enough for the birch.]

BTW- there aren't any utilities going to your house that might be
tangled in those roots, are there? It would suck to make the
perfect extraction, then see your water, sewer, gas, phone, cable, or
power line popped apart in the rootball.

Jim

On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:08:51 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me cut
the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

Wait until she's out one day, then glue lots of fake leaves to the
existing dead tree. When she returns, pretend you tore out the old tree
and planted a new full-size one, all while she was gone.

Then move far away, quickly. :-)

In article ,
Erik wrote:

In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?


Before seriously considering this be sure there are no underground
utility lines or whatever in the area that could be damaged by digging
or root movement.

Having said that, I think if I got liquored up enough to attempt this...
I'd first dig a series 'troughs' radiating out from the trunk maybe 10
feet or so. A few inches deep should be fine. An array of deep post
holes dug within the troughs might also help... The troughs could also
run parallel to one another throughout the trunk area.

I'd then fill said troughs with water, and leave a hose trickling at
such a rate as to keep them full for, oh, maybe a week or more. Fence
off the area! The trough/holes will be nearly invisible in the dark and
very hazardous anyone in the area!

Your mileage may vary considerably, depending on how level the ground is
around the tree, rock content of surrounding soil and water source
availability.

What ever you do, be careful and fully think things out... I have never
done this, or even seen it done on TV. It's just an idea, and not
necessarily a good one. This project isn't worth getting hurt and/or
sued over.

Erik

Hmmm... after viewing the photos, I take back the trough and water
idea... I had imagined this tree more out in the middle of a yard/field.
This one is way too close to the house.

I think this one will need to be removed by conventional means.

Erik

Erik

On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:22:37 -0500, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Oren wrote:

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

Great cautionary tale. That driver was the calmest guy I've ever
seen that just came inches from dying and lost his truck.

I suspect he was somewhat shocked... it would have been nice to see what
state he was in 20 mins later...

I thought it might have been staged at first, because the heights and
angles are so obviously wrong - but he really does sit inside that truck
until after the tree's come down on his head...

Master Betty wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...
Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

I'd like to pull it down rather than cutting it down, so that I can get
most of the roots and leave a nice hole for a replacement tree. The plan
would involve chaining the tree about 15' above ground, and hooking the
other end to some stout part of the car. There is plenty of clearance
around the tree, and it's right next to the driveway.

Now that I'm sober, I'm ready to suffer the slings and arrows of your
feedback. Is this concept even remotely feasible? What if I rented a 4
wheel drive truck with manual transmission? Or, if I could get even more
chain and a come-along, use the base of a bigger tree across the street?
It just occurred to me that among my house pics would be some that showed
the subject tree, so I posted them. But, now that I look at the pics, I
have to admit that I underestimated the diameter of the thing at the
base.

http://members.cox.net/prestwich/tree1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/prestwich/tree2.jpg
If it were possible to pull it out with the roots, you would also destroy
your nice paved driveway and who knows what to your deck footer.

It's in a fricken garden for christs sake, so why not cut it down, then
cut it again as low as possible. sip

I used to dig out the trunks. Now I just dig out as much as I can and cut
the trunk ground level or below with a chain saw. That's the way most pros
do it around these parts.

I've done that a few times but usually the stump/root area has stones
stuck in the wood. Last one I did I had to stop and sharpen the chain
at least 6 times before I got it an inch or two below the grade. Then
again it was a 70' red oak which leaves quite a bit of trunk to deal
with. It's in part of the driveway to my newish garage. I figure after
a few years I'll have to add a couple shovels of stone there each year
or so as it decomposes.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

LOL!

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

But notice how the pickup protects the driveway from being cracked. Those guys
really thought this out.

On Dec 2, 9:46*am, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have *been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

oops!

thats what I get for posting after midnight, after a mid-week dinner
party and trusting spell checker blindly

but I heard that insects can do damage to birches as well

cheers
Bob

On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:37:16 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

But notice how the pickup protects the driveway from being cracked. Those guys
really thought this out.


Driveway? I didn't see an open gate, only a truck inches (?) from the
nice fence ...

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:37:16 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near
the ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

But notice how the pickup protects the driveway from being cracked.
Those guys really thought this out.


Driveway? I didn't see an open gate, only a truck inches (?) from the
nice fence ...\

Details, details.

On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:13:12 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:


-snip-
Well, Jim, you seem to be the only one who thinks this is at least
theoretically feasible, based in part on your specific knowledge of the
species in question. (I'm not interpreting that as a rubber stamp of
approval.) I'm going to gnaw it over a bit more.

yeahbut. . Now that I've seen where it sits, I'm less enthusiastic.

IF you can pull it in the direction it is leaning, you'll be helping
yourself immensely.

IF you can get your hands on a demolition hammer with a clay spade you
could make quick work of the small roots that are on the back side.
cut a semi-circle 12-18" deep, about 2-3' away from the trunk.

Don't even think about using a rope. Use a heavy log chain. I'd go
8' high. Lessens the likelyhood of the thing snapping into 3 parts
and the loose part impaling the house. It also gives you a better
angle for your automobile.

If you can find someone with a 4wd truck & a nice high trailer hitch,
that would do better on the angle. [you're going to have to cart
the roots away anyway- they won't go in your Tacoma]

Then rock the thing while watching the root bal. Trim roots as
necessary.

Even at all that- it is iffy, and you're in for a day or two of hard
work.

I'd ride around the neighborhood looking for a backhoe at work. Stop
and ask the guy if he'd take that tree with him on the way home when
that job is done. It is a 1hr job that he doesn't even have to load
the machinery for.

Or. . . for a really good time- rent a backhoe for a day. My local
Ace store rents them for $300 or so for 24hours- delivered and picked
up. You must have some other hole that needs digging, eh?

Jim

If using chains, hang a couple old tires on the chain and if it snaps
they will drop the chain very quickly.

Used to do this all the time when pulling stuff on the farm, and on
the old tow truck. (cable, not chain)

In article ,
"badgolferman" wrote:




Have you actually got any estimates on having it removed
professionally? It might cost less than your insurance deductible
which you are flirting with at this time.

I have not, but the neighbor needs some tree work also and suggested we
get someone who might give us a package discount.

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:58:19 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK
wrote:

If the
birch was killed by fungus, rot or incests it will break off near the
ground with very little force.

This tree must have been damaged by "incests" :-/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhMUnBANGQA

AW, SMITTY, SAY IT ISN'T SO .................

Hey, I have plenty of first-hand knowledge of "unforeseen consequences,"
but even I plan things a little better than that!

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me cut
the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.


You can do most anything with a little hard-scaping and some shrubs.

It really is an awful spot for a tree. It makes for problems with
driveway & house-- and doesn't provide a whole lot of room for roots
to wander. [unless the driveway slopes towards the house, it doesn't
look wet enough for the birch.]

Noted. That corner does need something, though.


BTW- there aren't any utilities going to your house that might be
tangled in those roots, are there? It would suck to make the
perfect extraction, then see your water, sewer, gas, phone, cable, or
power line popped apart in the rootball.

Jim


That would suck. I seriously doubt there are utilities there, but I'll
double check.

In article . com,
Jules wrote:

On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 09:08:51 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me cut
the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

Wait until she's out one day, then glue lots of fake leaves to the
existing dead tree. When she returns, pretend you tore out the old tree
and planted a new full-size one, all while she was gone.

Then move far away, quickly. :-)

Good idea. (I already live 300 miles away.)

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

wrote

Unless the tree is ready to fall down on its own, there's no way that
will work. A 6-ton, 150HP tractor would not even wiggle that tree.
There's no way a 3500lb midsize car would do anything but tear itself
apart.

reply:

If you do use a midsize car, be sure to hook it to the plastic bumper and
tape it for youtube.

Steve

OK, thanks for the bumper suggestion. I was planning to use the outside
mirror.

In article
,
wrote:

On Dec 1, 12:58*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
Based on Archimedes' bold lever concept and some drinking, I've come up
with a plan to pull down a dead tree with my Toyota Avalon and a few
lengths of stout towing chain. The tree is a birch, about 8-10" diameter
and maybe 30' tall. Those are rough estimates as I'm not currently on
site.

Unless the tree is ready to fall down on its own, there's no way that
will work. A 6-ton, 150HP tractor would not even wiggle that tree.
There's no way a 3500lb midsize car would do anything but tear itself
apart.

Leverage, Mike. Think leverage. Archimedes.

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

[you're going to have to cart
the roots away anyway- they won't go in your Tacoma]

HEY! Stop calling my Avalon a Tacoma. Some google grouper mentioned a
Tacoma, not me.

In article ,
wrote:

If using chains, hang a couple old tires on the chain and if it snaps
they will drop the chain very quickly.

good idea, thanks.

In article . com,
Jules wrote:


I can see this going comically wrong - chain snaps and trashes the
vehicle, tree ends up going the other way and trashing the house behind it...

I can see it going wrong, too. But of course from my perspective the
adjective wouldn't be "comically."

In article ,
"Bob F" wrote:



If you are going to do this, I'd attach the chain using a double connection,
one
high (a few feet above roof line), and one lower (a few feet below roof line,
on
a single chain. Have the chain running through a metal loop so it can slide,
then attach that loop with another chain to the vehicle. This should lessen
the
bending moment on the middle of the trunk and still give you good mechanical
advantage.

Thanks, that sounds good.


How long has the tree been dead? If it has been long, the risk of sudden
fracture is higher.

Don't know.


You could set up the rope system, apply pressure, then cut the base so that
the
pivot direction will be towards the truck, so that the tree is unlikely to
land
on the deck. I did this last summer with a living maple which was growing
less
than a foot from the rail of a deck several feet above the ground. (10-12"
base)
I also attacked a cable to the trunk above and below the cut (about 6 feet
up)
to keep the trunk from dropping after it fell, to protect a hydranga under
the
falling trunk. I tensioned the rope to the tree with a come-along attached to
a
tree 50 feet away using wide webbing to avoid damageing that tree.

I made the cut, not so far that it fell, but it started to make cracking
noises.
I then went out to the tensioned rope, grabbed it, and started rocking the
tree
by putting my weight onto the rope. A few pulls, and the tree fell over
exactly
as planned, and the trunk stopped above the hydranga. I cut away most of the
unsupporting branches, and propped the trunk up with a couple of the cut
branches. I then removed the cable holding the trunk up, and guided the trunk
pivoting on the supports as a few friends pulled the top of the tree away
from
the deck and over the hydranga. I then cut the remaining stump down to
rounds,
ending a few inches above the ground, and covered that with dirt to rot it
away
over the years.

If you don't absolutely need the roots pulled out of the ground, something
like
the above might be more likely to work if you know the basics about cutting
trees.

Thanks for the details. I may go this route if I don't end up hiring a
professional.

In article ,
Erik wrote:


Hmmm... after viewing the photos, I take back the trough and water
idea... I had imagined this tree more out in the middle of a yard/field.
This one is way too close to the house.

I think this one will need to be removed by conventional means.

Sorry, Erik, no take-backs allowed on usenet. I was liking the trough
and water approach.

In article , Hell Toupee wrote:



I went to do this with a dying 20-foot apple tree and a little Mazda
323 hatchback. Borrowed a mooring rope from the next door neighbor,
drove the 323 into the back yard and tied the rope under the bumper.
Knotted the other end around the tree trunk. Holding the rope while
paying it out, I walked back towards the car. Pulled a little on the
rope and ... the tree rocked. Hmmm. So at that point, I ignored the
car and just stood there, yanking rhythmically on the rope, rocking
the tree back and forth, back and forth. (The neighbors were watching,
of course.) Finally the tree crashed down. I put my foot on its trunk,
beat on my chest, and gave my best Tarzan yell.
Hey, I had an audience. And were they impressed.

(And was I ever lucky...)

So the roots came out and all, or it snapped?

On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:05:41 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

[you're going to have to cart
the roots away anyway- they won't go in your Tacoma]

HEY! Stop calling my Avalon a Tacoma. Some google grouper mentioned a
Tacoma, not me.

Oops- guess if you had a Tacoma they *would* fit. I can't keep up
with all them ferrin cars.

Jim

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , Hell Toupee wrote:


I went to do this with a dying 20-foot apple tree and a little Mazda
323 hatchback. Borrowed a mooring rope from the next door neighbor,
drove the 323 into the back yard and tied the rope under the bumper.
Knotted the other end around the tree trunk. Holding the rope while
paying it out, I walked back towards the car. Pulled a little on the
rope and ... the tree rocked. Hmmm. So at that point, I ignored the
car and just stood there, yanking rhythmically on the rope, rocking
the tree back and forth, back and forth. (The neighbors were watching,
of course.) Finally the tree crashed down. I put my foot on its trunk,
beat on my chest, and gave my best Tarzan yell.
Hey, I had an audience. And were they impressed.

(And was I ever lucky...)

So the roots came out and all, or it snapped?

Turned out most of the roots had rotted away. The tree had only one
live branch left on it, and the ground was moist and soft, which is
why I thought I'd try giving it a tug with the car and see what would
happen. I thought it might at least heave it a little out of the
ground, and then I could tackle the exposed roots with a chain saw.
Instead, there was so little root structure left, it came down just
from my tugging the rope. Amazing.

"Hell Toupee" wrote in message
...
Smitty Two wrote:
In article , Hell Toupee wrote:


I went to do this with a dying 20-foot apple tree and a little Mazda 323
hatchback. Borrowed a mooring rope from the next door neighbor, drove
the 323 into the back yard and tied the rope under the bumper. Knotted
the other end around the tree trunk. Holding the rope while paying it
out, I walked back towards the car. Pulled a little on the rope and ...
the tree rocked. Hmmm. So at that point, I ignored the car and just
stood there, yanking rhythmically on the rope, rocking the tree back and
forth, back and forth. (The neighbors were watching, of course.) Finally
the tree crashed down. I put my foot on its trunk, beat on my chest, and
gave my best Tarzan yell.
Hey, I had an audience. And were they impressed.

(And was I ever lucky...)

So the roots came out and all, or it snapped?

Turned out most of the roots had rotted away. The tree had only one live
branch left on it, and the ground was moist and soft, which is why I
thought I'd try giving it a tug with the car and see what would happen. I
thought it might at least heave it a little out of the ground, and then I
could tackle the exposed roots with a chain saw. Instead, there was so
little root structure left, it came down just from my tugging the rope.
Amazing.

Smitty, I would suggest you try this approach, too. If you was me, you'd be
better looking. No, I meant to say, it I was you, I'd hook up to your tree
high up, and take a good strain on it, and look particularly what the ground
does around the tree. If it gives, it is an indication that the tree is
ready to come down, and a good tug from the vehicle may do it. However, I
would bring down the attachment point to about twelve feet. Just don't
overdo it and snap it. Remember, you are just trying to assess the
situation, and not pull the tree down. Allow for long enough chain/rope so
that the top doesn't land on the vehicle. Not that you'd do that on purpose.
If the root ball is in there solid, then go to plan B. Or C. Or even D.

Steve

dpb wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote:
...
I tried that with a large bush and a 2 wheel drive toyota tacoma. The
wheels spun. Even when I got a bit of a running start at it. ...
did eventually work but the process ended up as more of an I chopped
on the roots some, then pulled with the truck, repeat about 6 times.
It clearly would not have worked on a tree. Even a little tree.

Had a full afternoon's entertainment at SIL's place in Amarillo a year
or so ago as the local hired doofus a neighbor left to try same to a
similar-sized sample in their yard next door was in easy viewing of the
back deck/patio on a nice Sunday afternoon...

We used to live in another neighborhood. The yard of the house next door
was cared for by professional landscapers and was very attractive with
mature nicely shaped and placed trees. The woman who lived there died
and her son sold the house. The new owners decided that trees that look
as if they were in a botanic garden are quite useless. So he spent days
trying to pull one out as a start by tying various ropes and chains to
his pickup truck but never made any progress.

One day we heard a chain saw buzzing away and then a large thud as he
felled a tree and it landed on our roof. It trashed some of the roof and
also the gutters. After that he got help to guide the trees while he cut
them done. He never did anything with the stumps and eventually sold the
house. The new owner added a small addition so they had the backhoe guy
dig out the stumps.



Nothing was accomplished to the objective other than some blue air (both
verbal and exhaust and tire smoke) and much hacking away. BIL indicated
later the professional tree service was in the following week to take
care of the problem w/ their backhoe/grapple on a long boom from over
the fence in the alley in about 20 min or less...

--

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.

If one birch died there, will another?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

-snip-
Well, that idea is going to be a hard sell. She won't even let me
cut the tree down until a new one is sitting there ready to plant.

This could be more of a challenge than pulling a tree down by car. .
.. and more dangerous than the Ammonium nitrates and fuel oil
thoughts. But it has been done, and you could join the ranks of the
amazing if you can get SWMBO to change her mind.

Don't go at it head on. Has she picked out a tree? what is she
looking for in a tree? shade? looks? berries?

She wants another birch. (That one was dead when we bought the house a
year ago, so I don't know what killed it.) But we both like Japanese
maples, too.


You can do most anything with a little hard-scaping and some shrubs.

It really is an awful spot for a tree. It makes for problems with
driveway & house-- and doesn't provide a whole lot of room for roots
to wander. [unless the driveway slopes towards the house, it doesn't
look wet enough for the birch.]

Noted. That corner does need something, though.


BTW- there aren't any utilities going to your house that might be
tangled in those roots, are there? It would suck to make the
perfect extraction, then see your water, sewer, gas, phone, cable, or
power line popped apart in the rootball.

Jim


That would suck. I seriously doubt there are utilities there, but I'll
double check.

There's a "call before you dig" number to call for that, most places.

Master Betty wrote:

That's a big fucin' tree.

I think the biggest I've ever dealt with was a 30'....maybe 40'. My
neighbors has (about) a 40' dead tree I could chop up it in 1 or 2
hours, but he'd have to give me some serious cash to do it. It ain't
gonna fall on my property. Rare excuse to use my rock climbing gear.
It's a rush hanging from a harness with a chain saw. I think: "This
is crazy. This is crazy!" while I do it. Usually something real
exciting happens, like a branch falls where you don't expect it.

Tieing myself up in a dead tree wouldn't be my first choice.