On 2/22/2009 6:14 AM Van Chocstraw spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

I think you missed the whole point of my post: if I had gone into Home
Despot for this part, even if they had it, it's not likely I would have
even *known* that you could buy the less-than-$3 replacement valve
rather than the whole fill valve, so Ace saved me money.

Home Despot is often cheaper, but not always. I do buy stuff there
(lumber, drywall, joint compound, etc.) that is cheaper than a real
lumberyard and easier to just grab and go.

But getting help? Fuggedaboudit. Heard something funny the other day:
was at my favorite electrical supply place (Ace Liquidators in Alameda,
huuuuge warehouse full of all kinds of stuff, cheap), and the guy
checking me out said he goes to Home Depot on weekends himself because
they're open. He said he recently was totally shocked when someone who
works there actually came up to him and asked him if he needed help!

Well i guess if you don't know what you are doing it's worth it to have
a store tutor.

So in the case of my purchase of the replacement toilet fill valve, are
you saying that *you* would never have needed to have asked about it,
that you have perfect knowledge of all such things that are stocked in
the store?

I don't, and besides, I'm not a plumber.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jobs? Last year a Walmart opened across the street from Chicago. The
store had THIRTEEN THOUSAND applicants for 300+ jobs and 70% of the
applicants had Chicago ZIP codes! Most studies show Walmart creates
more jobs than are lost - and the jobs are of equal or better
employe value.

Sorry, I don't buy that. It may be true when looking *only* at retail
jobs
gained at Wal-Mart vs. retail jobs lost at their competitors. But
Wal-Mart
sells very little American-manufactured goods. Their insistence on
price-cutting has been a significant force in driving manufacturing
overseas,
and thus contributed to the loss of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. To
be sure,
Wal-Mart is not the only retailer responsible for this -- Home Depot,
Lowe's,
Target, and Sears, among others, share in the blame. But to say that
they
create more jobs than are lost, when they serve mostly as conduits for
marketing to Americans goods that are manufactured by non-Americans
-- goods
that used to be made in America, by Americans -- just doesn't hold
water.

It is GOOD that manufacturing jobs move overseas - provided they moved
because the foreign producer can create a product that has a higher
value/price ratio than the corresponding domestic product. When a foreign
supplier can produce something better/cheaper than his domestic counterpart,
each nation, in the aggregate, is better off.

Adam Smith settled this controversy in the 18th century with his book, "The
Wealth of Nations" (unfortunately, some people don't keep up with the latest
economic truths).

KLS wrote:
So, has either of you read Deep Economy by Bill McKibbin?

http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Economy-W...32064&sr= 8-1

Makes sense to me! (not usually a top poster, but someone might like
to refer to the thread that provoked this response from me)


No, I haven't read it. From the review, however, it's apparent the author is
a loon. His premise seems to be that economic growth, and its consequences,
is untenable. We're running out of natural resources, etc.

This concept is not new - the prophecy of economic doom goes back at at
least to Malthus, with his book "An Essay on the Principle of Population" in
which he postulated "The power of population is indefinitely greater than
the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man."

In 1968, Paul Erlich wrote "The Population Bomb," with the prediction that
we (or at least most of us on the planet) would die by the end of the
1980's. His doomsday scenario was predicated on the belief that we were
running out of the resources necessary to provide for an increased
population.

One of the critics of Ehrlich's hypothesis, was Julian Simon, an economic
theorist. In 1980 Simon proposed, and Ehrlich accepted, a wager. Simon said
to Erhlich, "pick any five commodity metals and I'll wager $1,000 that
they'll be cheaper in a decade." Erhlich agreed to the wager and picked
copper, chrome, nickle, tin, and tungsten. Here are a couple of the prices
(adjusted for inflation):

Chrome - from $3.90/lb in 1980 to $3.70 in 1990.
Tin - from $8.73/lb in 1980 to $3.88 in 1990.

Simon won the bet big time. (Ehrlich also offered to bet $10,000 the Britain
would cease to exist by 1990, but Simon thought that was too silly to fool
with.)

This was in spite of the world's population increasing by 800 million in the
same decade.

I, for one, am not willing to even ENTERTAIN the idea of the wife washing my
shirts by pounding them with a rock on the stream bed.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:

One of the towns in this area fought off, at least temporarily,
building a WalDump on a pristine, riverfront site. Wal probably
could much better afford the legal expenses, but this was a dedicated
group of people - just ordinary local folks, not an enviro. group. We
also lost a large mobile home park - nice, well-kept retiree homes
- to a chain that might be Wal. I won't shop Wal if it's the last
store on the planet. Folks can keep shopping at Wal and wondering
WTF happened to their jobs.............

And, in your first example, the purists can live in the riverfront park
because they can't afford anything else.

If you look at the cities that do not have a Walmart (Chicago, New York,
Boston, D.C., San Francisco, Baltimore, Boston, etc.), I think you'll
discover the pattern (Houston has 17 Walmarts, Las Vegas has 14).

Jobs? Last year a Walmart opened across the street from Chicago. The store
had THIRTEEN THOUSAND applicants for 300+ jobs and 70% of the applicants
had Chicago ZIP codes! Most studies show Walmart creates more jobs than
are lost - and the jobs are of equal or better employe value.

Sure, some mom and pop stores will suffer, but complaining about that is
equivalent to lamenting the demise of the buggy-whip industry because
eveybody's buying the new-fangled automobile.

Myself, I'd LOVE to be able to open a store in the same parking lot as a
Walmart - use them as an anchor sto Ice cream shop, bookstore, sandwich
shop, auto parts, wedding chapel, whatever.

I agree...Especially since Walmart and Macdonalds are the only ones making
any money now..It seems when money is tight some fall off their high horses
and buy things where their dollar buys the most..I chuckle seeing all the
Volvos , Saabs , Toyota Landrovers and SUV's packing the Walmart parking lot
theses days..Speaking of Autos , how many of you Walmart bashers drive
AMERICAN autos?? Or does your buy local American made only apply to retail
stores and hardware stores ??? I suppose Walmart is to blame for JUNK
American cars too and not the union and bad management...I suppose you all
also think the unions had nothing to do with pricing themselves out of the
market and forcing the companies over seas to compete...You guys crack me
up.....LOL....

wrote in message
...
I like the Ace hardware store way way better than the lows or home
depot.
You can actually get help
You don't wait in line like the big box stores
A special order is pretty easy
The product quality seems better

McQuades in Westerly RI is my Ace store, good folks.


Another thing that cracks me up is every couple of weeks you guys feel the
need to start this thread over again as if to justify yourself and make sure
there are still a few left who have the time to miss work and wealty enough
to pay extra to shop at the little stores..What's the matter , that warm
fuzzy feeling starts to fade and you need a slap on the back and an atta boy
from others who still feel the same way....ROFLMAO

benick wrote:

wrote in message
...
I like the Ace hardware store way way better than the lows or home
depot.
You can actually get help
You don't wait in line like the big box stores
A special order is pretty easy
The product quality seems better

McQuades in Westerly RI is my Ace store, good folks.


Another thing that cracks me up is every couple of weeks you guys feel
the need to start this thread over again as if to justify yourself and
make sure there are still a few left who have the time to miss work and
wealty enough to pay extra to shop at the little stores..What's the
matter , that warm fuzzy feeling starts to fade and you need a slap on
the back and an atta boy from others who still feel the same way....ROFLMAO

Why are you such an ass? I *will* go out of my way to avoid going to
HD, because 90% of the time they don't have what I need anyway. Better
to go to the real store the first time. Or just order online. I have
two HD's within 5 miles of my house and they are both garbage and I wish
they'd get bought out by Lowe's at least they'd improve a little then.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

HeyBub wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jobs? Last year a Walmart opened across the street from Chicago. The
store had THIRTEEN THOUSAND applicants for 300+ jobs and 70% of the
applicants had Chicago ZIP codes! Most studies show Walmart creates
more jobs than are lost - and the jobs are of equal or better
employe value.
Sorry, I don't buy that. It may be true when looking *only* at retail
jobs
gained at Wal-Mart vs. retail jobs lost at their competitors. But
Wal-Mart
sells very little American-manufactured goods. Their insistence on
price-cutting has been a significant force in driving manufacturing
overseas,
and thus contributed to the loss of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. To
be sure,
Wal-Mart is not the only retailer responsible for this -- Home Depot,
Lowe's,
Target, and Sears, among others, share in the blame. But to say that
they
create more jobs than are lost, when they serve mostly as conduits for
marketing to Americans goods that are manufactured by non-Americans
-- goods
that used to be made in America, by Americans -- just doesn't hold
water.

It is GOOD that manufacturing jobs move overseas - provided they moved
because the foreign producer can create a product that has a higher
value/price ratio than the corresponding domestic product. When a foreign
supplier can produce something better/cheaper than his domestic counterpart,
each nation, in the aggregate, is better off.

Adam Smith settled this controversy in the 18th century with his book, "The
Wealth of Nations" (unfortunately, some people don't keep up with the latest
economic truths).


Adam Smith knew nothing of mass produced goods, electronics, machines
(other than looms?), so whatever the heck he knew about economies and
jobs has little to do with 2009. Value/price ratio? We should rather
buy a cheap piece of imported junk (with less control of the
manufacturing quality) than a more expensive quality item? That isn't
economical.

wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jobs? Last year a Walmart opened across the street from Chicago. The
store had THIRTEEN THOUSAND applicants for 300+ jobs and 70% of the
applicants had Chicago ZIP codes! Most studies show Walmart creates
more jobs than are lost - and the jobs are of equal or better
employe value.
Sorry, I don't buy that. It may be true when looking *only* at retail
jobs
gained at Wal-Mart vs. retail jobs lost at their competitors. But
Wal-Mart
sells very little American-manufactured goods. Their insistence on
price-cutting has been a significant force in driving manufacturing
overseas,
and thus contributed to the loss of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. To
be sure,
Wal-Mart is not the only retailer responsible for this -- Home Depot,
Lowe's,
Target, and Sears, among others, share in the blame. But to say that
they
create more jobs than are lost, when they serve mostly as conduits for
marketing to Americans goods that are manufactured by non-Americans
-- goods
that used to be made in America, by Americans -- just doesn't hold
water.

It is GOOD that manufacturing jobs move overseas - provided they moved
because the foreign producer can create a product that has a higher
value/price ratio than the corresponding domestic product. When a
foreign supplier can produce something better/cheaper than his
domestic counterpart, each nation, in the aggregate, is better off.

Adam Smith settled this controversy in the 18th century with his book,
"The Wealth of Nations" (unfortunately, some people don't keep up with
the latest economic truths).

Adam Smith knew nothing of mass produced goods, electronics, machines
(other than looms?), so whatever the heck he knew about economies and
jobs has little to do with 2009. Value/price ratio? We should rather
buy a cheap piece of imported junk (with less control of the
manufacturing quality) than a more expensive quality item? That isn't
economical.

Agreed. Except that the "more expensive quality items" are often hard
to find, and require almost as much from the consumer in terms of *time
to find the damned widget* as money to buy it.

I'm sure I've wasted years of my life researching potential purchases
just so I don't get stuck with some POS that fails as soon as the 90-day
warranty is up. (sometimes that happens anyway.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

HeyBub wrote:
KLS wrote:
So, has either of you read Deep Economy by Bill McKibbin?

http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Economy-W...32064&sr= 8-1

Makes sense to me! (not usually a top poster, but someone might like
to refer to the thread that provoked this response from me)


No, I haven't read it. From the review, however, it's apparent the author is
a loon. His premise seems to be that economic growth, and its consequences,
is untenable. We're running out of natural resources, etc.

This concept is not new - the prophecy of economic doom goes back at at
least to Malthus, with his book "An Essay on the Principle of Population" in
which he postulated "The power of population is indefinitely greater than
the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man."

In 1968, Paul Erlich wrote "The Population Bomb," with the prediction that
we (or at least most of us on the planet) would die by the end of the
1980's. His doomsday scenario was predicated on the belief that we were
running out of the resources necessary to provide for an increased
population.

One of the critics of Ehrlich's hypothesis, was Julian Simon, an economic
theorist. In 1980 Simon proposed, and Ehrlich accepted, a wager. Simon said
to Erhlich, "pick any five commodity metals and I'll wager $1,000 that
they'll be cheaper in a decade." Erhlich agreed to the wager and picked
copper, chrome, nickle, tin, and tungsten. Here are a couple of the prices
(adjusted for inflation):

Chrome - from $3.90/lb in 1980 to $3.70 in 1990.
Tin - from $8.73/lb in 1980 to $3.88 in 1990.

Simon won the bet big time. (Ehrlich also offered to bet $10,000 the Britain
would cease to exist by 1990, but Simon thought that was too silly to fool
with.)

This was in spite of the world's population increasing by 800 million in the
same decade.

I, for one, am not willing to even ENTERTAIN the idea of the wife washing my
shirts by pounding them with a rock on the stream bed.



I don't know either Simon or Ehrlich (although I have heard of
them)..the date was wrong, but clean water is a problem in many areas of
the US. China and India have horrible problems with air and water
pollution. I just saw a headline about California nearing total lack of
water for irrigation of farm fields due to drought (can you say "food
supply"?). They have an energy crisis every time the weather gets hot.
The NW US has a bad drought. N. Atlantic fisheries are badly depleted
of certain fish, like cod. The Gulf of Mexico has cut back severely on
grouper fishing. From all appearances, we are glad to go to war (pick a
reason) to have some control of the oil supply. Clean coal? Guess
there will be jobs for those Americans who don't work at WalMart.

clipped

I agree...Especially since Walmart and Macdonalds are the only ones
making any money now..It seems when money is tight some fall off their
high horses and buy things where their dollar buys the most..I chuckle
seeing all the Volvos , Saabs , Toyota Landrovers and SUV's packing the
Walmart parking lot theses days..Speaking of Autos , how many of you
Walmart bashers drive AMERICAN autos?? Or does your buy local American
made only apply to retail stores and hardware stores ??? I suppose
Walmart is to blame for JUNK American cars too and not the union and bad
management...I suppose you all also think the unions had nothing to do
with pricing themselves out of the market and forcing the companies over
seas to compete...You guys crack me up.....LOL....

I almost forgot - my '84 Buick runs fine. A tad rusty. Only lemon I
ever bought was a brand new Datsun. Owned three Chevy's, one new; all
great cars. Agree the unions have priced themselves out of many jobs,
and have no sympathy for that - another major problem for manufacturing
is the Worker's Comp. system - ought to be trashed, but no pol' will
ever have the guts to suggest that. Unless Obama gets universal
healthcare, but highly doubtful even then. My grandkids don't work yet,
but they will have to pay off our horrendous debts first.

Saturn was a great little car - for a while. What happened with Saturn?
Dumped in favor of trucks and SUV's?

benick wrote:

wrote in message
...
I like the Ace hardware store way way better than the lows or home
depot.
You can actually get help
You don't wait in line like the big box stores
A special order is pretty easy
The product quality seems better

McQuades in Westerly RI is my Ace store, good folks.


Another thing that cracks me up is every couple of weeks you guys feel
the need to start this thread over again as if to justify yourself and
make sure there are still a few left who have the time to miss work and
wealty enough to pay extra to shop at the little stores..What's the
matter , that warm fuzzy feeling starts to fade and you need a slap on
the back and an atta boy from others who still feel the same way....ROFLMAO

I remember the year my children went Christmas shopping for us. They
were about $3 short of the purchase price, but the clerk let them take
their purchases. We stopped in afterward to settle up. My daughter
started working when she was 13. She arranged to buy some custom-made
jewelry at a shop in the mall where she worked. The owner gave her
credit! She paid it off, as agreed, all without our knowledge.

When the panic was on over Fannie/Freddie, same daughter sold her
business to change jobs. Sold her biz. on Craig's list for the asking
price to the first comer. Those who can, do........ (Single mom, to boot).

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:56:15 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a small town of about 20,000. They only hire the prettiest girls
from 18-24. The asst. manager looks like an ex beauty queen, big hair, boob
job, and all. More like a dancer. But I digress.

A trip to Ace goes something like this for this sixty year old. I go in. I
immediately look to see where Dave and Bob are so that can avoid them and
get waited on by one of the bouncy bubbly (but very knowledgeable) young
ladies. WE usually have to search a while, all the time, I'm teaching them
about what it is I'm looking for, mainly so next time they will know, and
can help others in the future. I Well, not mainly, but I digress. I
always ask to see things on lower shelves and where they have to bend over.
The whole trip could be done faster if I'd just go get what I want, or get
Dave or Bob, as they know every little hiding place there. But when I
leave, I definitely leave with a better attitude, my parts, and a little ego
massage. The girls now even call me by name.

I have no idea where they find so many really cute chicks in that small town
and why they don't have many males in the same job. My best trips are when
big hair waits on me. She's at least six feet tall, and thirtyish. Hubba
hubba. She's hot!

And, THEN you woke up!

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
I live in a small town of about 20,000. They only hire the prettiest
girls from 18-24. The asst. manager looks like an ex beauty queen, big
hair, boob job, and all. More like a dancer. But I digress.


If you go to our local Wal Mart you will soon realize that is a local
situation and not corporate policy. Most of the ladies on the registers
look like my grandmother and I'm 63.

Pretty short explanation of why I prefer Ace over Walmart.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:56:15 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a small town of about 20,000. They only hire the prettiest
girls
from 18-24. The asst. manager looks like an ex beauty queen, big hair,
boob
job, and all. More like a dancer. But I digress.

A trip to Ace goes something like this for this sixty year old. I go in.
I
immediately look to see where Dave and Bob are so that can avoid them and
get waited on by one of the bouncy bubbly (but very knowledgeable) young
ladies. WE usually have to search a while, all the time, I'm teaching
them
about what it is I'm looking for, mainly so next time they will know, and
can help others in the future. I Well, not mainly, but I digress. I
always ask to see things on lower shelves and where they have to bend
over.
The whole trip could be done faster if I'd just go get what I want, or get
Dave or Bob, as they know every little hiding place there. But when I
leave, I definitely leave with a better attitude, my parts, and a little
ego
massage. The girls now even call me by name.

I have no idea where they find so many really cute chicks in that small
town
and why they don't have many males in the same job. My best trips are
when
big hair waits on me. She's at least six feet tall, and thirtyish. Hubba
hubba. She's hot!

And, THEN you woke up!

No, but I did get waited on by her one time. I said, "I had a dream about
you last night, and I just wanted to say, thank you." She blushed, and
helped me find whatever I was looking for.

Steve

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

I, for one, am not willing to even ENTERTAIN the idea of the wife
washing my shirts by pounding them with a rock on the stream bed.

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.
--

JR

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:40:19 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:56:15 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a small town of about 20,000. They only hire the prettiest
girls
from 18-24. The asst. manager looks like an ex beauty queen, big hair,
boob
job, and all. More like a dancer. But I digress.

A trip to Ace goes something like this for this sixty year old. I go in.
I
immediately look to see where Dave and Bob are so that can avoid them and
get waited on by one of the bouncy bubbly (but very knowledgeable) young
ladies. WE usually have to search a while, all the time, I'm teaching
them
about what it is I'm looking for, mainly so next time they will know, and
can help others in the future. I Well, not mainly, but I digress. I
always ask to see things on lower shelves and where they have to bend
over.
The whole trip could be done faster if I'd just go get what I want, or get
Dave or Bob, as they know every little hiding place there. But when I
leave, I definitely leave with a better attitude, my parts, and a little
ego
massage. The girls now even call me by name.

I have no idea where they find so many really cute chicks in that small
town
and why they don't have many males in the same job. My best trips are
when
big hair waits on me. She's at least six feet tall, and thirtyish. Hubba
hubba. She's hot!

And, THEN you woke up!

No, but I did get waited on by her one time. I said, "I had a dream about
you last night, and I just wanted to say, thank you." She blushed, and
helped me find whatever I was looking for.


Nominate her for_ Employee of the Day_.

Is she the *farmer's daughter*?

In article ,
" wrote:

clean water is a problem in many areas of the US.

Horsesh*t. There is no shortage of POTABLE water in virtually ANY place
in the US.

Admittedly, one might have to drill a deep well to get it in a few
places but, for the VAST majority of Americans, clean water is readily
available. Our rivers are clean, our streams are clean and, with rare
exception, our ground water is pristine.

I just saw a headline about California nearing total lack of
water for irrigation of farm fields due to drought (can you say "food
supply"?).

California could slide into the Pacific ocean and, within a short time,
their lost agricultural output would be replaced by other producing
areas of the world. Yeah, we'd have to settle for Florida or Honduras
oranges, and, temporarily, for a higher price, but we'd muddle through.

California would not be the agricultural giant it is today were it not
for the foresight of the mega builders of the early 20th century. If
the regulatory and environmental restrictions of today were in place
then, California would be a desert today and drought would be common.

They have an energy crisis every time the weather gets hot.

You don't say? Duh!

You don't suppose that fact could be due largely to the fact that they
haven't upgraded their power grid for the last 20-30 years.

But, not to worry: They're erecting windmills and solar farms. If
they're lucky, it'll keep up with the increase in their population.

Then, again, they'll probably just tax their citizens so much that their
population stagnates or, better, declines to meet their power generating
capacity again.

The NW US has a bad drought.

Global warming.

N. Atlantic fisheries are badly depleted

Climate change.

The Gulf of Mexico has cut back severely on grouper fishing.

Hurricane Katrina.

From all appearances, we are glad to go to war (pick a
reason) to have some control of the oil supply.

Sounds good to me. We could build solar and wind farms like never
before and still be plunged into darkness and cold if the oil stopped.

Oh, yeah! In case you haven't heard: There IS *NO* "alternative"
energy. Not yet, anyway. And probably not for a LONG time to come.

Clean coal?

Yep. Clean - as in SCRUBBED clean. The same goes for oil.

Guess there will be jobs for those Americans
who don't work at WalMart.

You forgot nuclear power. StratCom has LOTS of it and the coff, hack
"fine" folks in the Middle East know it - probably not well enough, but
I hope they don't make us demonstrate it. We WILL get the oil. Unlike
all civilizations of the past, however, we'll pay $$ for our plunder.

Then: We have nothing to fear but FEAR itself.

Now: Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

Wotta POS.
--
sigh
JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

I, for one, am not willing to even ENTERTAIN the idea of the wife
washing my shirts by pounding them with a rock on the stream bed.

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

--
aem sends...

In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jobs? Last year a Walmart opened across the street from Chicago. The
store had THIRTEEN THOUSAND applicants for 300+ jobs and 70% of the
applicants had Chicago ZIP codes! Most studies show Walmart creates
more jobs than are lost - and the jobs are of equal or better
employe value.

Sorry, I don't buy that. It may be true when looking *only* at retail
jobs
gained at Wal-Mart vs. retail jobs lost at their competitors. But
Wal-Mart
sells very little American-manufactured goods. Their insistence on
price-cutting has been a significant force in driving manufacturing
overseas,
and thus contributed to the loss of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. To
be sure,
Wal-Mart is not the only retailer responsible for this -- Home Depot,
Lowe's,
Target, and Sears, among others, share in the blame. But to say that
they
create more jobs than are lost, when they serve mostly as conduits for
marketing to Americans goods that are manufactured by non-Americans
-- goods
that used to be made in America, by Americans -- just doesn't hold
water.

It is GOOD that manufacturing jobs move overseas - provided they moved
because the foreign producer can create a product that has a higher
value/price ratio than the corresponding domestic product. When a foreign
supplier can produce something better/cheaper than his domestic counterpart,
each nation, in the aggregate, is better off.

You apparently haven't bought any power tools or kitchen appliances for a
long, long time.

The imported replacements of what used to be made here are cheaper, certainly.
In every sense of the word, too.

But better? You've got to be kidding. We used to make appliances and tools
here that would last a generation. Now we import cheap crap from China that
falls apart in eighteen months and winds up in a landfill. How is that an
improvement?

In article , " wrote:

I almost forgot - my '84 Buick runs fine. A tad rusty.

What model Buick, and how many miles on it?

Best buy I ever had in a used car was an '84 LeSabre, bought in 1991 at about
55K miles... sold it in 2001 at 209K, still running fine. The only major
repair was a transmission rebuild at 150K.

clipped

I, for one, am not willing to even ENTERTAIN the idea of the wife washing my
shirts by pounding them with a rock on the stream bed.



I'll entertain the idea of beating to a bloody pulp anyone who
entertains the idea of me washing their shirts by pounding them on a rock.

clipped
And, THEN you woke up!

No, but I did get waited on by her one time. I said, "I had a dream about
you last night, and I just wanted to say, thank you."

Don't know how many times I heard that one when I was a student nurse.
It's a real PIA trying to take pulses on night shift - rarely find both
hands free )

She blushed, and
helped me find whatever I was looking for.

Steve

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , " wrote:

I almost forgot - my '84 Buick runs fine. A tad rusty.

What model Buick, and how many miles on it?

Regal. The odometer quit at 106k. Heck, I could get it painted and
sell it as a low-mileage granny car. It's actually on it's fourth older
driver. The first two only put on 12k.

Best buy I ever had in a used car was an '84 LeSabre, bought in 1991 at about
55K miles... sold it in 2001 at 209K, still running fine. The only major
repair was a transmission rebuild at 150K.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

But better? You've got to be kidding. We used to make appliances and tools
here that would last a generation. Now we import cheap crap from China
that
falls apart in eighteen months and winds up in a landfill. How is that an
improvement?

There is a flaw in your argument. We started making cheap crap here too.
Black & Decker was one of the leaders in the rush to consumer grade junk.
Lasko Metal Products fought the cheap stuff by making their own version of
cheap fans back in the mid 1970's. I have a couple of made in the USA drill
from B&D that are not as good as many imports. GE sold the small appliance
division to B&D also and they kept making stuff cheaper. Why? Because we
wanted cheaper from the discount stores at the time.

Wal Mart takes a lot of heat, but thee were discounters going back a number
of years that fought for every low price imaginable. They just did not do
it as well as WM. You can probably think of a bunch of discount stores that
have gone under in the past 20 years, before China made everything. Two
Guys, Lechmere, Bradley's, Crazy Eddie, Zayre, Clover, Kiddie City, and
every department store that sold decent merchandise at reasonable prices.
Macys is about the only one left.

Consumers demand cheap stuff too. We are as much to blame as the stores
selling it.

In article , "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

But better? You've got to be kidding. We used to make appliances and tools
here that would last a generation. Now we import cheap crap from China
that
falls apart in eighteen months and winds up in a landfill. How is that an
improvement?

There is a flaw in your argument. We started making cheap crap here too.

Yeah, but it wasn't *all* cheap crap.

Black & Decker was one of the leaders in the rush to consumer grade junk.
Lasko Metal Products fought the cheap stuff by making their own version of
cheap fans back in the mid 1970's. I have a couple of made in the USA drill
from B&D that are not as good as many imports.

They're probably better than many imports, too -- I take it you haven't been
inside a Harbor Freight store (aka Horrible Fright)? Talk about cheap crap...

And of course many imports are very high quality. I don't object to imports in
general, I just object to imports that are cheap crap. I've never observed
quality problems in any of the tools or other products that I've bought that
were made in Canada, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Austria, Australia, New
Zealand, or Israel, and only minimal problems in items coming from Mexico,
Taiwan or Korea. China, on the other hand....

I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" meant "crap", just like "Made
in China" does now. Hopefully, China will make a similar improvement
eventually.

I buy old American-made tools at auctions and garage sales whenever I have the
opportunity. Some of that stuff lasts forever.


GE sold the small appliance
division to B&D also and they kept making stuff cheaper. Why? Because we
wanted cheaper from the discount stores at the time.
[...]
Consumers demand cheap stuff too. We are as much to blame as the stores
selling it.

Only too true. In the words of Pogo, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:59:34 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

Consumers demand cheap stuff too. We are as much to blame as the stores
selling it.

" Crazy Eddie " ?

I heard about this guy.

Was his Warrant served ...?

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
benick wrote:

wrote in message
...
I like the Ace hardware store way way better than the lows or home
depot.
You can actually get help
You don't wait in line like the big box stores
A special order is pretty easy
The product quality seems better

McQuades in Westerly RI is my Ace store, good folks.


Another thing that cracks me up is every couple of weeks you guys feel
the need to start this thread over again as if to justify yourself and
make sure there are still a few left who have the time to miss work and
wealty enough to pay extra to shop at the little stores..What's the
matter , that warm fuzzy feeling starts to fade and you need a slap on
the back and an atta boy from others who still feel the same
way....ROFLMAO

Why are you such an ass? I *will* go out of my way to avoid going to HD,
because 90% of the time they don't have what I need anyway. Better to go
to the real store the first time. Or just order online. I have two HD's
within 5 miles of my house and they are both garbage and I wish they'd get
bought out by Lowe's at least they'd improve a little then.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I'm an ass for pointing out the truth??? You can shop anywhere you want....I
could care less....I just pointed out the need to re-run THIS SAME EXACT
THREAD EVERY FEW WEEKS WITH THE SAME OLD RESPONCES..If my reasoning is wrong
give me the REAL: reason for the need to re-run this topic , instead of
calling names and re-running your reasons for not going to HD or Lowes...It
only belittles you and proves my point....

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:56:15 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

I live in a small town of about 20,000. They only hire the prettiest
girls
from 18-24. The asst. manager looks like an ex beauty queen, big hair,
boob
job, and all. More like a dancer. But I digress.

A trip to Ace goes something like this for this sixty year old. I go in.
I
immediately look to see where Dave and Bob are so that can avoid them and
get waited on by one of the bouncy bubbly (but very knowledgeable) young
ladies. WE usually have to search a while, all the time, I'm teaching
them
about what it is I'm looking for, mainly so next time they will know, and
can help others in the future. I Well, not mainly, but I digress. I
always ask to see things on lower shelves and where they have to bend
over.
The whole trip could be done faster if I'd just go get what I want, or get
Dave or Bob, as they know every little hiding place there. But when I
leave, I definitely leave with a better attitude, my parts, and a little
ego
massage. The girls now even call me by name.

I have no idea where they find so many really cute chicks in that small
town
and why they don't have many males in the same job. My best trips are
when
big hair waits on me. She's at least six feet tall, and thirtyish. Hubba
hubba. She's hot!

And, THEN you woke up!

sounds more like an old mans wet dream than reality...Did you have to clean
up afterwards???? LOL....

On 2/22/2009 8:40 PM benick spake thus:

I'm an ass for pointing out the truth??? You can shop anywhere you
want....I could care less....I just pointed out the need to re-run
THIS SAME EXACT THREAD EVERY FEW WEEKS WITH THE SAME OLD
RESPONCES..If my reasoning is wrong give me the REAL: reason for the
need to re-run this topic , instead of calling names and re-running
your reasons for not going to HD or Lowes...It only belittles you and
proves my point....

I'm the one who started this thread, and I do shop regularly at Home
Despot (no experience w/Lowe's yet); I get things there that I know are
cheaper, that are easy to grab and go, and that I don't have to ask for
help for.

But I prefer places other than the big-box stores, for the many reasons
already stated in this thread. So I guess we'll just have to say that
*you* can shop anywhere *you* like, OK?


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

Doug Miller wrote:

When a foreign supplier can produce something better/cheaper than
his domestic counterpart, each nation, in the aggregate, is better
off.

You apparently haven't bought any power tools or kitchen appliances
for a
long, long time.

The imported replacements of what used to be made here are cheaper,
certainly.
In every sense of the word, too.

But better? You've got to be kidding. We used to make appliances and
tools
here that would last a generation. Now we import cheap crap from
China that
falls apart in eighteen months and winds up in a landfill. How is
that an
improvement?

Sure I have (bought power tools or kitchen appliances lately).

The fact is, there are almost always more expensive choices available, no
one is forced to buy the "cheap" alternative (except maybe for kitchen
microwaves and a few hundred other items).

For example, last year I bought a cheap table saw for $99 (Ryobi). I COULD
have bought a SawStop CB31230 for a mere $3,470 (MSRP). That thirty-three
hundred dollar savings bought a lot of beer!

You ask "how is that an improvement?" Simple. For me it was a choice between
a saw for $99 that does an acceptable job and something that cost
prohibitively more that may do a perfect job. For your position, my choice
would have been between the more expensive item and nothing. Had your dream
been reality, I'd be cutting boards with an X-Acto knife!

Your criterion of "lasting a generation" is slightly flawed. I didn't WANT
the item to last a generation - durability wasn't even on the list! In my
case, the saw I bought did the job (cutting laminate for three rooms). Had
the saw failed immediately after the flooring job was complete, I'd have
been satisfied. As it is, lasting 18 months is a 17-1/2 month bonus!

Now if I had wanted a saw to pass on to my son, maybe I'd have sprung for
the three-thousand dollar model. But with my luck, my son would have turned
out to be a hair dresser, the saw would end up as scrap metal, and I would
have missed out on a lot of beer.

wrote:

I don't know either Simon or Ehrlich (although I have heard of
them)..the date was wrong, but clean water is a problem in many areas
of the US. China and India have horrible problems with air and water
pollution. I just saw a headline about California nearing total lack
of water for irrigation of farm fields due to drought (can you say
"food supply"?). They have an energy crisis every time the weather
gets hot. The NW US has a bad drought. N. Atlantic fisheries are
badly depleted of certain fish, like cod. The Gulf of Mexico has cut
back severely on grouper fishing. From all appearances, we are glad
to go to war (pick a reason) to have some control of the oil supply. Clean
coal? Guess there will be jobs for those Americans who don't
work at WalMart.

Oil is a sound reason to go to war.

Hitler invaded Russia for their oil supply (there are no oil wells in
Germany). Japan attacked the U.S. over access to oil.

Of course, both of them lost the ensuing conflict...

The answer to air and water pollution in India and China is MORE use of oil
(and coal). The sooner they can industrialize and improve their standard of
living, the sooner they can devote resources to cleaning things up rather
than just getting by.

Rich nations are healthy nations.

aemeijers wrote:
Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

I, for one, am not willing to even ENTERTAIN the idea of the wife
washing my shirts by pounding them with a rock on the stream bed.

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

It's a division of labor. She washes my shirt and I fix her rock when it
breaks.

SteveB wrote:

And, THEN you woke up!

No, but I did get waited on by her one time. I said, "I had a dream
about you last night, and I just wanted to say, thank you." She
blushed, and helped me find whatever I was looking for.


I LOVE that line!

clipped

Only too true. In the words of Pogo, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

A good line for currency - forget "In God we trust." God probably is
****ed that we use his name on our money.

Oren wrote:
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:59:34 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

Consumers demand cheap stuff too. We are as much to blame as the stores
selling it.

" Crazy Eddie " ?

I heard about this guy.

Was his Warrant served ...?


"Lin Burton for certain". Polk Brothers?

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
I don't know either Simon or Ehrlich (although I have heard of
them)..the date was wrong, but clean water is a problem in many areas
of the US. China and India have horrible problems with air and water
pollution. I just saw a headline about California nearing total lack
of water for irrigation of farm fields due to drought (can you say
"food supply"?). They have an energy crisis every time the weather
gets hot. The NW US has a bad drought. N. Atlantic fisheries are
badly depleted of certain fish, like cod. The Gulf of Mexico has cut
back severely on grouper fishing. From all appearances, we are glad
to go to war (pick a reason) to have some control of the oil supply. Clean
coal? Guess there will be jobs for those Americans who don't
work at WalMart.

Oil is a sound reason to go to war.

Hitler invaded Russia for their oil supply (there are no oil wells in
Germany). Japan attacked the U.S. over access to oil.

Of course, both of them lost the ensuing conflict...

The answer to air and water pollution in India and China is MORE use of oil
(and coal). The sooner they can industrialize and improve their standard of
living, the sooner they can devote resources to cleaning things up rather
than just getting by.

Rich nations are healthy nations.



And the obesity rate in the US is what? Juvenile diabetes? Infant
mortality?

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

Oops. You're exactly right: She would.

Then, she would surely volunteer to mow the lawn half the time (she's
done it once in 35 years) and shovel the snow (I don't think she's EVER
done it) - to name a few outdoor things.

I've changed my mind: She would insist on an automatic rock.
--

JR

In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Consumers demand cheap stuff too. We are as much to blame
as the stores selling it.

Agreed.

My biggest lament is that, occasionally, I wish to buy the high quality
version of something - a power tool comes to mind - and it's hard or
impossible to find. Ace does carry the "high end" stuff as well as the
cheap stuff. At the big box stores, it's ALL the low end merchandise.
--

JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

Oops. You're exactly right: She would.

Then, she would surely volunteer to mow the lawn half the time (she's
done it once in 35 years) and shovel the snow (I don't think she's EVER
done it) - to name a few outdoor things.

I've changed my mind: She would insist on an automatic rock.

What colors are available?

In article ,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

Oops. You're exactly right: She would.

Then, she would surely volunteer to mow the lawn half the time (she's
done it once in 35 years) and shovel the snow (I don't think she's EVER
done it) - to name a few outdoor things.

I've changed my mind: She would insist on an automatic rock.

Yes, the division of labor between the sexes is still fairly clearly
defined in our "enlightened" society. I dated a woman a number of years
back who explained it quite fundamentally.

The first time she asked me to change a light bulb for her, I snickered
and asked "Don't you even know how to change a light bulb?"

With nary a pause she looked me straight in the eye and declared "No, I
don't. But I do know how to s**k c**k."

That pretty much cleared up any confusion I had on the topic.