wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
I don't know either Simon or Ehrlich (although I have heard of
them)..the date was wrong, but clean water is a problem in many
areas of the US. China and India have horrible problems with air and
water pollution. I just saw a headline about California nearing
total lack of water for irrigation of farm fields due to drought (can
you say
"food supply"?). They have an energy crisis every time the weather
gets hot. The NW US has a bad drought. N. Atlantic fisheries are
badly depleted of certain fish, like cod. The Gulf of Mexico has
cut back severely on grouper fishing. From all appearances, we are
glad to go to war (pick a reason) to have some control of the oil
supply. Clean coal? Guess there will be jobs for those Americans
who don't work at WalMart.

Oil is a sound reason to go to war.

Hitler invaded Russia for their oil supply (there are no oil wells in
Germany). Japan attacked the U.S. over access to oil.

Of course, both of them lost the ensuing conflict...

The answer to air and water pollution in India and China is MORE use
of oil (and coal). The sooner they can industrialize and improve
their standard of living, the sooner they can devote resources to
cleaning things up rather than just getting by.

Rich nations are healthy nations.



And the obesity rate in the US is what? Juvenile diabetes? Infant
mortality?

And what's the death rate in the U.S. (or UK or Germany, etc.) from Malaria?
Polio? Typhoid? Typhus? Diptheria? Tuberculosis? AIDS? Where's the last case
of non-criminal starvation in America or Europe or Japan?

It's possible, I guess, to have zero adult diabetes. All one has to do is
live in a country where none of the juvenile diabetics (and very few of the
juvenile non-diabetics) even reach the age where they can contract Type 2.

I think the mortality rate for children greater than six months in age is
among the best in the world. "Infant mortality" sucks because we treat
infants differently. In the U.S., we go to heroic lengths to save every
child born and some, regrettably, don't make it. In other countries, they
just throw premmies in the trash and count 'em as still-born - if they're
counted at all.

But your premise that that things could be a little better in the rich
nations is true; but in poor nations, things couldn't get much worse.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

Oops. You're exactly right: She would.

Then, she would surely volunteer to mow the lawn half the time (she's
done it once in 35 years) and shovel the snow (I don't think she's
EVER done it) - to name a few outdoor things.

I've changed my mind: She would insist on an automatic rock.

Yes, the division of labor between the sexes is still fairly clearly
defined in our "enlightened" society. I dated a woman a number of
years back who explained it quite fundamentally.

The first time she asked me to change a light bulb for her, I
snickered and asked "Don't you even know how to change a light bulb?"

With nary a pause she looked me straight in the eye and declared "No,
I don't. But I do know how to s**k c**k."

That pretty much cleared up any confusion I had on the topic.

You should have married her and thrown rubies at her feet.

In article , Stormin Mormon
wrote:

There used to be a small town True Value store, near me.
They went out of business, and now it's a car dealership.
One of their people hired on with Home Depot.

About half hour drive from me is a hardware, that linked up
with Pro, I think it is. They have a people who know all
that kind of thing.

One time I got a request from a friend, to fix a tippy
toilet. The folks had a toilet flange that fits into the
existing pipe. Worked nicely. They also had some cabinet
hinges I needed, for a job at a store. The prices are
typically higher than the big box stores, but I like
supporting small business.

Sometimes a store looks small. And then I walk in, and
realize the store goes way back, and is crammed with good
things.

I hope this doesn't lead to thread-drift but, gots my own story about
good hardware stores:

The precursor to our local Ace was a place called Do It Yourself
Center. Their signage was strange; the two words "DO IT!" in four-foot
letters and the words "Yourself Center" in two-inch letters below it.

I had to stop going there because every time I took one of my wife's
teenage boys with me to pick something up he'd say, "So, Frank, We
gonna Do It?"

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

"Doug Miller" wrote in message


They're probably better than many imports, too -- I take it you haven't
been
inside a Harbor Freight store (aka Horrible Fright)? Talk about cheap
crap...

And of course many imports are very high quality. I don't object to
imports in
general, I just object to imports that are cheap crap. I've never observed
quality problems in any of the tools or other products that I've bought
that
were made in Canada, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Austria, Australia, New
Zealand, or Israel, and only minimal problems in items coming from Mexico,
Taiwan or Korea. China, on the other hand....

I've never been in a HF store and have no intention of ever going. I agree
that it is cheap crap. OTOH, I've bought a few items that are very good
quality and meet the specifications of the US brand that formerly made them
either here of Japan, Hong Kong or wherever they chased the cheap labor. My
Kitchen Aid toaster is a good example. Works perfect for a few years now,
but it did cost more than the Wal-Mart $7 toasters.

My company produces custom molded parts. We buy and re-sell the tooling for
the job and make parts as the customer needs them. Typical tooling from the
US, Germany, or Italy runs about $10,000 and takes 8 weeks on average. If
we buy it at that price, we only mark it up about $500 to cover costs
because we really want the long term product sales. In some cases, the
prospective customer says, "I can't justify that tooling cost so I'm
sticking with my old method of packing even though the piece price is a
little higher". Sale lost

Along comes China mold maker. He quotes the same tool for $3500 and two
week delivery. We go to the same prospect and quote $5000 for the tooling
and he gives us an order. Tooling is shipped exactly when promised.
Quality is as good as any other source. We have new business and keep
people employed. Customer saves money. We have happy customer for many
years.

The other side is that we have lost good customers as they moved their
manufacturing overseas.

Still another story. The wife of a co-worker was laid off about 6 months
ago. The product her division made was split between China and Alabama.
Last week she was called back to work. Neither China, nor Alabama, is able
to produce the quality of goods needed so it is back to Rhode Island. Other
products are still gone though.

No one scenario, no one story fits all. You can get good, you can get crap
from most any place.

In article , "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
[major snip]
No one scenario, no one story fits all. You can get good, you can get crap
from most any place.

You're ignoring the relative probabilities: any randomly selected product made
in China, Vietnam, or Malaysia is FAR more likely to be crap than a randomly
selected product made in Canada, Germany, the U.S., or Australia (to name a
few).

"Jim Redelfs" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

Consumers demand cheap stuff too. We are as much to blame
as the stores selling it.

Agreed.

My biggest lament is that, occasionally, I wish to buy the high quality
version of something - a power tool comes to mind - and it's hard or
impossible to find. Ace does carry the "high end" stuff as well as the
cheap stuff. At the big box stores, it's ALL the low end merchandise.
--

JR

Really , the HD here sells DeWalt , Porter Cable , ect. as well as cheapo
Ryobi for us occasional DIYers...Maybe the one near you is different or
you're bull****ting us???? I think I already know the answer..LOL...

In article ,
" wrote:

She would insist on an automatic rock.

What colors are available?

Hehehe! Will that be a top- or front-loading rock?
--

JR

In article ,
Smitty Two wrote:

Yes, the division of labor between the sexes is still fairly clearly
defined in our "enlightened" society. I dated a woman a number of years
back who explained it quite fundamentally.

The first time she asked me to change a light bulb for her, I snickered
and asked "Don't you even know how to change a light bulb?"

With nary a pause she looked me straight in the eye and declared "No, I
don't. But I do know how to s**k c**k."

That pretty much cleared up any confusion I had on the topic.

ARGH!! sputtering [ROFL] big grin Priceless!
--

JR

In article , Smitty Two wrote:

Yes, the division of labor between the sexes is still fairly clearly
defined in our "enlightened" society. I dated a woman a number of years
back who explained it quite fundamentally.

The first time she asked me to change a light bulb for her, I snickered
and asked "Don't you even know how to change a light bulb?"

With nary a pause she looked me straight in the eye and declared "No, I
don't. But I do know how to s**k c**k."

That pretty much cleared up any confusion I had on the topic.

I have the light bulbs but I need the lady's tel #

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
[major snip]
No one scenario, no one story fits all. You can get good, you can get crap
from most any place.

You're ignoring the relative probabilities: any randomly selected product made
in China, Vietnam, or Malaysia is FAR more likely to be crap than a randomly
selected product made in Canada, Germany, the U.S., or Australia (to name a
few).

Sadly, I don't agree. US made products (what few there are left) are
almost as likely to be crap.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In article ,
Nate Nagel wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:
[major snip]
No one scenario, no one story fits all. You can get good, you can get
crap
from most any place.

You're ignoring the relative probabilities: any randomly selected product
made
in China, Vietnam, or Malaysia is FAR more likely to be crap than a
randomly
selected product made in Canada, Germany, the U.S., or Australia (to name a
few).

Sadly, I don't agree. US made products (what few there are left) are
almost as likely to be crap.

nate

Consumer products are likely to be poorly made no matter where they come
from. OTOH, there are many industrial products made in the US that are
made to impeccably high standards, and are still the best you can buy
anywhere.

On Feb 23, 11:17*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article ,
*aemeijers wrote:

My wife would insist on an automatic rock.

I would hope she would tell you to wash your own damn shirt.

Oops. *You're exactly right: *She would.

Then, she would surely volunteer to mow the lawn half the time (she's
done it once in 35 years) and shovel the snow (I don't think she's EVER
done it) - to name a few outdoor things.

I've changed my mind: *She would insist on an automatic rock.

Yes, the division of labor between the sexes is still fairly clearly
defined in our "enlightened" society. I dated a woman a number of years
back who explained it quite fundamentally.

The first time she asked me to change a light bulb for her, I snickered
and asked "Don't you even know how to change a light bulb?"

With nary a pause she looked me straight in the eye and declared "No, I
don't. But I do know how to s**k c**k."

That pretty much cleared up any confusion I had on the topic.

I think you set your sights too low. I mow the lawn, shovel the snow,
change lightbulbs, and s**k c**k. Each of those activities is
performed
in partnership with my husband.

Of course, he enjoys some of them more than others. The man's a
demon with that snow blower.

Cindy Hamilton

On Feb 23, 7:14*pm, Frank Warner wrote:
In article , Stormin Mormon





wrote:
There used to be a small town True Value store, near me.
They went out of business, and now it's a car dealership.
One of *their people hired on with Home Depot.

About half hour drive from me is a hardware, that linked up
with Pro, I think it is. They have a people who know all
that kind of thing.

One time I got a request from a friend, to fix a tippy
toilet. The folks had a toilet flange that fits into the
existing pipe. Worked nicely. They also had some cabinet
hinges I needed, for a job at a store. The prices are
typically higher than the big box stores, but I like
supporting small business.

Sometimes a store looks small. And then I walk in, and
realize the store goes way back, and is crammed with good
things.

I hope this doesn't lead to thread-drift but, gots my own story about
good hardware stores:

The precursor to our local Ace was a place called Do It Yourself
Center. Their signage was strange; the two words "DO IT!" in four-foot
letters and the words "Yourself Center" in two-inch letters below it.

I had to stop going there because every time I took one of my wife's
teenage boys with me to pick something up he'd say, "So, Frank, We
gonna Do It?"

The correct reply, of course, is, "no, you have to do it yourself."

nate

On Feb 24, 8:55*am, Smitty Two wrote:
Consumer products are likely to be poorly made no matter where they come
from.

True, and it's entirely the average consumer's fault. The average
consumer buys based on the CHEAPEST PRICE, period. No consideration is
given to quality or durability. If manufacturer B's product is $1
cheaper than manufacturer A, then manufacturer B gets the sale. Simple
as that.

Try automatic Rock .... dot com.....

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
m...

I've changed my mind: She would insist on an automatic
rock.

What colors are available?

Ah, that sounds like my kind of division of labor. Someone
owes me a new keyboard, now. And half a glass of diet soda.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Redelfs" wrote in
message
...
In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

Yes, the division of labor between the sexes is still
fairly clearly
defined in our "enlightened" society. I dated a woman a
number of years
back who explained it quite fundamentally.

The first time she asked me to change a light bulb for
her, I snickered
and asked "Don't you even know how to change a light
bulb?"

With nary a pause she looked me straight in the eye and
declared "No, I
don't. But I do know how to s**k c**k."

That pretty much cleared up any confusion I had on the
topic.

ARGH!! sputtering [ROFL] big grin Priceless!
--

JR

Jim Redelfs wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

clean water is a problem in many areas of the US.

Horsesh*t. There is no shortage of POTABLE water in virtually ANY place
in the US.

When did you last read a newspaper? Lots of critical shortages in some
areas. Today, St. Pete Times, has story stating the Hillsborough River,
which supplies drinking water for Tampa, is down to TWO percent of
normal flow. That might also cause salt water backing up from Tampa
Bay. Drill? Aquifers in Fl. also have salt water intrusion, not to
harmful levels yet. Some allegedly serious public servants want to put
treated sewage into the aquifers to replenish ground water. Not a one
of them has ever suggested limiting new building or density around this
badly overcrowded area.

There was a water war, of sorts, going on betw. north Florida and
Georgia. Pumping too much water has been a problem in Florida for a
long time, causing lake levels to drop drastically.

Admittedly, one might have to drill a deep well to get it in a few
places but, for the VAST majority of Americans, clean water is readily
available. Our rivers are clean, our streams are clean and, with rare
exception, our ground water is pristine.

Which river is "your" river? There aren't many in Florida without
pollution or low flow problems.....drought for about four years.

I just saw a headline about California nearing total lack of
water for irrigation of farm fields due to drought (can you say "food
supply"?).

California could slide into the Pacific ocean and, within a short time,
their lost agricultural output would be replaced by other producing
areas of the world. Yeah, we'd have to settle for Florida or Honduras
oranges, and, temporarily, for a higher price, but we'd muddle through.

You restrict your diet to oranges? No green veggies or fresh fruit? Nuts?

California would not be the agricultural giant it is today were it not
for the foresight of the mega builders of the early 20th century. If
the regulatory and environmental restrictions of today were in place
then, California would be a desert today and drought would be common.

Sealife off Oregon coast - n. Cal. too? - dying from feline diseases in
run-off.

They have an energy crisis every time the weather gets hot.

You don't say? Duh!

You don't suppose that fact could be due largely to the fact that they
haven't upgraded their power grid for the last 20-30 years.

All the howling about high taxes - justified or not - has set back
infrastructure needs for critical things like levees/dikes, power
plants, bridges, airports, etc, etc, etc...now howling because there are
crumbling roads and Cal. is broke. What to do...

But, not to worry: They're erecting windmills and solar farms. If
they're lucky, it'll keep up with the increase in their population.

Then, again, they'll probably just tax their citizens so much that their
population stagnates or, better, declines to meet their power generating
capacity again.

The NW US has a bad drought.

Global warming.

N. Atlantic fisheries are badly depleted

Climate change.

Overfishing.

The Gulf of Mexico has cut back severely on grouper fishing.

Hurricane Katrina.

Overfishing.

From all appearances, we are glad to go to war (pick a
reason) to have some control of the oil supply.

Sounds good to me. We could build solar and wind farms like never
before and still be plunged into darkness and cold if the oil stopped.

Oh, yeah! In case you haven't heard: There IS *NO* "alternative"
energy. Not yet, anyway. And probably not for a LONG time to come.

Clean coal?

Yep. Clean - as in SCRUBBED clean. The same goes for oil.

Guess there will be jobs for those Americans
who don't work at WalMart.

You forgot nuclear power. StratCom has LOTS of it and the coff, hack
"fine" folks in the Middle East know it - probably not well enough, but
I hope they don't make us demonstrate it. We WILL get the oil. Unlike
all civilizations of the past, however, we'll pay $$ for our plunder.

Then: We have nothing to fear but FEAR itself.

Now: Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.

Wotta POS.

wrote:
clipped
There used to be a hardware store in Santa Ana (Orange County, CA).
I can't
remember the name but they really did have everything that could be
called
hardware. If you had a 100 year old dresser that was missing a knob
they
had it in stock. It may have cost you $10-15 for that one knob but
they had
it. I really miss their spring-loaded cabinet catches.

Sigh! Sounds like Gerald's in Westchester (LA area, on Lincoln Blvd
en route to LAX). Staffed by Olde Tymers who knew everything, could
find everything, and gave what (remember!) personal service.
Never found out why they closed; I hope it was just due to retirement
or something reasonable, but I miss the hell out of them. Not that
near me, but well worth the trip.


Sounds like my sewing machine guy ...... I asked him how long he had
been repairing sewing machines and he said "all my life". He looks
about 70, but his wife looks older. He knows all, has all the parts,
and teaches a couple of younger guys. One of the younger ones, though,
answered a question pops couldn't answer. I bought a case for my
daughter's new/old Singer machine from him - he originally quoted $70,
which is more case than needed. Got it later for half that. The second
time I asked, he came down more that what I had been prepared to pay, so
I pitched in the difference. My Singer is going on 40 years old and
does everything I will ever want to do with a sewing machine, including
sew boat covers. The handle on my sew. mach. case rusted and broke - he
had another, along with the goofy spring clip that holds it on. Another
engineering marvel.

One of these days, a couple of handy guys are going to get tired of this
nonsense and start repairing good stuff. Americans have gotten too
freaking lazy...hope we can never again afford to pitch a "new" TV and
go out and buy another.

We have an electric motor shop in town that keeps some
old air handler motors in stock. I brought in one of
those 60 year old motors and they had a rewound replacement
on the shelf. The old motor is a lot bigger than the new
ones and looks as though it was designed to be rebuilt.

TDD

benick wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:

One of the towns in this area fought off, at least temporarily,
building a WalDump on a pristine, riverfront site. Wal probably
could much better afford the legal expenses, but this was a dedicated
group of people - just ordinary local folks, not an enviro. group. We
also lost a large mobile home park - nice, well-kept retiree homes
- to a chain that might be Wal. I won't shop Wal if it's the last
store on the planet. Folks can keep shopping at Wal and wondering
WTF happened to their jobs.............

And, in your first example, the purists can live in the riverfront
park because they can't afford anything else.

If you look at the cities that do not have a Walmart (Chicago, New
York, Boston, D.C., San Francisco, Baltimore, Boston, etc.), I think
you'll discover the pattern (Houston has 17 Walmarts, Las Vegas has 14).

Jobs? Last year a Walmart opened across the street from Chicago. The
store had THIRTEEN THOUSAND applicants for 300+ jobs and 70% of the
applicants had Chicago ZIP codes! Most studies show Walmart creates
more jobs than are lost - and the jobs are of equal or better employe
value.

Sure, some mom and pop stores will suffer, but complaining about that
is equivalent to lamenting the demise of the buggy-whip industry
because eveybody's buying the new-fangled automobile.

Myself, I'd LOVE to be able to open a store in the same parking lot as
a Walmart - use them as an anchor sto Ice cream shop, bookstore,
sandwich shop, auto parts, wedding chapel, whatever.

I agree...Especially since Walmart and Macdonalds are the only ones
making any money now..It seems when money is tight some fall off their
high horses and buy things where their dollar buys the most..I chuckle
seeing all the Volvos , Saabs , Toyota Landrovers and SUV's packing the
Walmart parking lot theses days..Speaking of Autos , how many of you
Walmart bashers drive AMERICAN autos?? Or does your buy local American
made only apply to retail stores and hardware stores ??? I suppose
Walmart is to blame for JUNK American cars too and not the union and bad
management...I suppose you all also think the unions had nothing to do
with pricing themselves out of the market and forcing the companies over
seas to compete...You guys crack me up.....LOL....

REVENGE OF THE LITTLE PEOPLE, sounds like a
good movie title. *snicker*

TDD