I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

On 8 Aug, 16:45, wrote:
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

How long has it been running? What was the temp when you begin to
cool it down?

It could take many, many, many hours to drop a 100 degree space, with
all it's 100 degree furnishings, the full 23 degrees.

wrote:
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not
paid for it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my
thermostat set to 77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is
upstairs, downstairs a separate system is maintaining the selected
temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

If you realy have the question if the upstairs unit has been properly charge
is have a heat load done to your home.

Also have your system checked to make sure ther is no problems.

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texas
www.EnergyEqualizers.com

On Aug 8, 2:56 pm, "Moe Jones" wrote:
wrote:
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not
paid for it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my
thermostat set to 77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is
upstairs, downstairs a separate system is maintaining the selected
temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

If you realy have the question if the upstairs unit has been properly charge
is have a heat load done to your home.

Also have your system checked to make sure ther is no problems.

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texaswww.EnergyEqualizers.com

Its set to 77 and its 81 , maybe the thermostat is not calibrated if
its cycling, turn it to 70, how hot was everything when you started
it, wait a few days and let it run continously, keep the thermostat
temp set low so it runs. My installer gave a guarnteed temp drop in
writing.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

On 8 Aug, 16:45, wrote:


I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!



How long has it been running? What was the temp when you begin to
cool it down?

It could take many, many, many hours to drop a 100 degree space, with
all it's 100 degree furnishings, the full 23 degrees.


In addition, if everything in the home is loaded with the latent heat of
humidity it will take many times longer to pull the sensible temp
reading down.
Also, the upstairs area usually has a greater heat-gain than the lower
floor area.

http://www.udarrell.com/latent_heat_condensation.html

What SEER Rating at 82-F ambient is the new unit?

Higher ambient (outdoor Temps) can considerably lower the capacity of an
82-F outdoor temp Rated Ultra High SEER Rated unit.
In very hot & especially humid climate zones, I would go primarily by
the higher outdoor 95-F "EER Ratings & BTUH performance at those very
high application load conditions." I also hope your new unit has a
Scroll compressor & a TXV metering device ahead of the E-Coil.
- udarrell

--
WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS -
THE REAL POLITICAL ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT

http://www.udarrell.com/

http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm
(* My Airconditioning Links, Hunting Shooting, Angus Cattle, etc.)

http://www.udarrell.com/principled_a...ju stice.html

http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html

http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html

http://www.antiwar.com/ ***

Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!

wrote:
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not
paid for it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my
thermostat set to 77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is
upstairs, downstairs a separate system is maintaining the selected
temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?


Stick a thermometer in the vent. The A/C should be putting out air about 20
degrees cooler than the air that goes into the system (ambient). If you're
getting a 20-degree drop, it's as good as it gets.

wrote in message
...
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set
to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Wait another day. You have two thermostats? Try setting the upper level
thermostat a bit lower.

Two-story houses are difficult to balance because the cold air is denser and
falls to the first floor.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:45:45 -0400, wrote:

I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet.

If you have not paid, you must return your 81 degree air and get
hotter air in return. I'm sure they have an air exchange place
nearby.

Your cool air will be sold to defray your debt.

Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

20 degrees is about as good as you'll get.

Thanks for any help!

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:03:21 -0700, ransley
wrote Re Is this acceptable HVAC performance?:

On Aug 8, 2:56 pm, "Moe Jones" wrote:
wrote:
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not
paid for it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my
thermostat set to 77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is
upstairs, downstairs a separate system is maintaining the selected
temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

If you realy have the question if the upstairs unit has been properly charge
is have a heat load done to your home.

Also have your system checked to make sure ther is no problems.

--
Moe Jones
HVAC Service Technician
Energy Equalizers Inc.
Houston, Texaswww.EnergyEqualizers.com

Its set to 77 and its 81 , maybe the thermostat is not calibrated if
its cycling, turn it to 70, how hot was everything when you started
it, wait a few days and let it run continously, keep the thermostat
temp set low so it runs. My installer gave a guarnteed temp drop in
writing.

Here's a way to measure performance:

1) With the house warm, turn the thermostat down so the a/c will turn
on and run for at least 10 minutes.

2) After running for ten minutes, and while still running, measure the
temp of warm air going into the a/c unit as close as you can get to
it. At the same time, measure the cool air coming out of the vent
nearest to the a/c unit.

3) A 20 - 25F temp drop is very good. More than 30F and you may have
an over sized unit.
--
To email me directly, remove CLUTTER.

wrote in message
...
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set
to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

It should be doing better. We had the same problem for years with our unit
and could never get below 80 if it was 100+ outside. Other houses in the
area could reach 70 if they wanted. We eventually sold the house and the
new owner's inspection showed up that the unit was not big enough for the
house. We put some money in escrow for them so the whole thing would just
go away.

BTW, we had for years been trying to get A/C people to find out what was
wrong but we would have been better employing retarded chimps. ALL of them
were useless cretins. Not one of them (7 or 8 different people) said the
unit was too small and it was just fine - but it wasn't.

wrote in message
...
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid
for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set
to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!


What temperature is in the manual J calculations?

In article ,
"D'Olier" wrote:

wrote in message
...
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set
to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

It should be doing better. We had the same problem for years with our unit
and could never get below 80 if it was 100+ outside. Other houses in the
area could reach 70 if they wanted. We eventually sold the house and the
new owner's inspection showed up that the unit was not big enough for the
house. We put some money in escrow for them so the whole thing would just
go away.

BTW, we had for years been trying to get A/C people to find out what was
wrong but we would have been better employing retarded chimps. ALL of them
were useless cretins. Not one of them (7 or 8 different people) said the
unit was too small and it was just fine - but it wasn't.

I hate those useless cretins. Give me a useful cretin any day.

"Vic Dura" wrote in message
...

Here's a way to measure performance:

1) With the house warm, turn the thermostat down so the a/c will turn
on and run for at least 10 minutes.

2) After running for ten minutes, and while still running, measure the
temp of warm air going into the a/c unit as close as you can get to
it. At the same time, measure the cool air coming out of the vent
nearest to the a/c unit.

3) A 20 - 25F temp drop is very good. More than 30F and you may have
an over sized unit.


Bull****, without all the required data, everything is a WAG (wild ass
guess).

Now, if you want to talk about:

TESP, CFM
SP, ST, SH
LP, LT, SC
DB, WB
AT, CT, CDT
ST, RT, EDT
CA, CRLA
FA, FRLA
Etc.. we can get somewhere.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not
paid for it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my
thermostat set to 77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is
upstairs, downstairs a separate system is maintaining the selected
temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?


Stick a thermometer in the vent. The A/C should be putting out air about
20
degrees cooler than the air that goes into the system (ambient). If you're
getting a 20-degree drop, it's as good as it gets.


You're assuming that a lot of things are correct.

20-degree drop doesn't mean jack ****.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

wrote:

I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not
paid for it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my
thermostat set to 77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is
upstairs, downstairs a separate system is maintaining the selected
temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?


Stick a thermometer in the vent. The A/C should be putting out air about

20

degrees cooler than the air that goes into the system (ambient). If you're
getting a 20-degree drop, it's as good as it gets.



You're assuming that a lot of things are correct.

20-degree drop doesn't mean jack ****.


It's not as bad as all that. It's not a definitive indicator of system
health, but it is in line with typical performance of typical healthy
systems.

In other words, you wouldn't expect to see a 5 degree difference or a
50 degree difference -- those would likely be an indication of something
not quite right, or some exceptional circumstance.

All rules of thumb are imperfect.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

mm wrote:

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:45:45 -0400, wrote:


I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet.


If you have not paid, you must return your 81 degree air and get
hotter air in return. I'm sure they have an air exchange place
nearby.

Your cool air will be sold to defray your debt.


Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?


20 degrees is about as good as you'll get.


Thanks for any help!


20+/- degrees from the inlet to the outlet is typical. That says
nothing about the difference between the indoor and outdoor
temperatures. Clearly you can condition down to 65 degrees indoors
even if it's 110 outside (but it will cost you $$) with a big
enough system. Just go to any shopping mall for a demonstration.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Thanks for all of the replies. In answer to some of the questions:
The system has been on for a couple of months. The system consists of 3
units (one downstairs and 2 up). The upstairs is the problem. The home is
well insulated. I have actually paid 60% of the contract cost. The
contractor has a little more work to do (load balance and a couple of other
minor cosmetic things and agrees no additional payment is due until all of
the work has been completed. He has been very slow completing the final
items.)

The exterior temp I gave and the interior temp indicated by the thermostat
are correct.

To me as home owner, I don't care about all the technical aspects. My
question is simply: "I hired a company to design and install a system.
They did. Is it normally considered acceptable for the interior temp to to
be 81 when the exterior temp is 100 on a very sunny day."

If the answer is "Yes, any lower and your system would be oversized" then
fine. If the answer is "No" then the contractor should correct the
situation be it the freon charge level, unit size, duct design, airflow
rate, j page calculations, or whatever.

I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet.

If you have not paid, you must return your 81 degree air and get
hotter air in return. I'm sure they have an air exchange place
nearby.

Your cool air will be sold to defray your debt.


Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Stick a thermometer in the vent. The A/C should be putting out air
about 20 degrees cooler than the air that goes into the system
(ambient). If you're getting a 20-degree drop, it's as good as it
gets.


You're assuming that a lot of things are correct.

20-degree drop doesn't mean jack ****.

Pssst! This is "alt.home.repair" not "alt.hvac" - you're in the wrong group.

On Aug 8, 10:55 pm, kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
wrote in message

...

I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid
for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set
to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

Thanks for any help!

What temperature is in the manual J calculations?


My answer is that if 90 to 100 deg days are not unusual in your area,
then I would not be satisfied. What happens as the temp drops later
in the day? On a 100 deg day, when does it finally reach 77?

I'd also look at your attic venting. Is it adequate? Are the soffit
vents open and not blocked with insulation? In areas with 100 deg
days, I would also install a radiant barrier on the underside of the
roof, which can help a lot. If you improve any of these, you will be
saving energy costs as well.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:45:45 -0400, wrote:

Reading you latest post puts a new slant on your first post.

I just had a new HVAC system installed in a new house and have not paid for
it yet. Today the temperature is 100 outside. I have my thermostat set to
77 and the actual temperature is 81. (This is upstairs, downstairs a
separate system is maintaining the selected temperature.)

I am getting about a 20 degree drop. Is that acceptable or should the
system be doing better?

You are asking here, it seems, about the 20 degree drop.

But it was still confusing, I realize now. Your first paragraph says
it's 100 out and 81 in. That's a 19 degree difference, so I didn't
think that what you were referring to when you said a 20 degree drop.

If you meant the same thing, why did you up it from 19 to 20?

I said, perhaps negligently, but I'm not getting paid, that a 20
degree drop is the most you're going to gget, but that referred to 20
degrees from the input to the AC to the output, the air just before it
goes in the AC to when it comes out**. IIRC, I think it was this
thread where someone was explicit about hat.

Once the room is down to 90, say, a 20 degree drop will yield 70
degree output.

**But maybe measuring it as described where this footnote comes from,
you only have a 15 degree drop. That might be acceptable also. Then
you'll only get 75 degree air out, until the room is 85, when you
should get 70 degree air out.

If your ac is big enough for the space to be cooled, you should be
able to get it down to 70, but I don't think you said either how big
your AC is or how big it was calculated that you need. Or how much
hot air might be leaking in, through leaks or radiation, and how much
the cold might be getting out. And is the attic adequately
ventilated. Or how long you had been running the AC. You have never
replied to any of the questions or suggestions offered, you just seem
miffed that we say technical things and you're not interested in
those. But we can't answer your question if you won't answer our only
slightly technical questions. "How long has the AC been running"
doesn't seem very technical to me, but maybe that is because I have 3
years trade school and 10 years experience in "how long". Also, I
finished a certificate program in "running".

Also you shouldn't just rely on one thermometer to know the indoor
temp. It could be bad, even though it is new. Surely you have another
thermmometer around the house that you have reason to believe is
accurate, or you can go to the store. You don't need expensive, which
is almost always based on the decoration, but it should be large
enough to mark every 2 degrees and to be able to read when it is
between two of the markings. Then look at all the thermomters for
sale like it and pick one that reads in the middle, the mode, mean, or
median of what they have. They will probalby all be very close to
each other, but make you don't buy one that is not. Then see if you
have 81 or something closer to 77.

Also, did you try turning the stat down to 70, as somoene suggested.
This is not so that you can keep your house at 70, but to see if it
will go lower than 81 if the stat is set lower. Not only might the
thermometer on the stat be wrong, but it could be right and the stat
could be calibrated incorrectly. That's no big deal. If it is out of
warranty and cools (or heats) the room to 4 degree hotter than it is
set for, then one just sets it 4 degrees lower. These numbers are
just there to help. They were not given by God.

So, if you've tested everything and it's all adequate and unless they
sold you the wrong AC with your consent, maybe it's not acceptable.
I'd like to hear the answers to everyone's questions before I can say
something stronger.

And, have you pointed this out to the ac contractor? You should do it
over the phone, so that he allows time and brings whatever he needs to
fix it, instead of waiting and telling him when he is there and
causing him to make another trip.

Thanks for any help!

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Stick a thermometer in the vent. The A/C should be putting out air
about 20 degrees cooler than the air that goes into the system
(ambient). If you're getting a 20-degree drop, it's as good as it
gets.


You're assuming that a lot of things are correct.

20-degree drop doesn't mean jack ****.

Pssst! This is "alt.home.repair" not "alt.hvac" - you're in the wrong
group.


Pssst! I know "HVAC" and "you don't" - so, quit handing out inaccurate
information.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Pssst! I know "HVAC"...

Wrong :-)

Nick

wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Pssst! I know "HVAC"...

Wrong :-)

Nick

LOL