Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job (using NM 12-2) for my new attached garage. But, as you
might have guessed, I've got a few questions (actually a few more than a
few) that one of you folks might be able to help me with.

First, I'll fill you in on the background a bit. My ranch house used to
have a two car garage built into the basement. I didn't like that
arrangement, so I had a new two car garage built on that end of the
house (where the old "garage" was). The new garage is fastened to the
exterior brick wall of the house and opens into the basement (which will
be finished...in time). The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.) The garage
interior will eventually be drywalled and finished as well.

Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

That being the case, I've been reading up on wiring - both on the
web/usenet and in several reference books - and I think I'm now ready
tackle this project. Prior to submitting the permit application,
however, I'd like to pick some brains on a number of concerns I've
encountered while planning out the project. I posted some photos of the
garage to help explain what I'd like to do. Web address is below. So,
in no particular order, here I go....

1. What is the appropriate distance above or below an outlet box (and if
it applies, a switch as well) to drill the hole through the stud? One
reference calls for 6-8" above or below the box, while the other calls
for 12" above. Does above or below really matter? What drives the hole
location? The distance at which you staple the NM to the stud? If it
makes a difference (though I don't really see why it would), I do plan
on slapping nail plates on the studs.

2. When encountering a window (or door), is it best practice to go below
the window (or above the door) through the cripple studs, or run the
romex through the attic space? Going through the cripples would save
romex and the need to protect the cable running through the attic, but
if there is a compelling reason to go up and over, I will plan it that
way.

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be? None of my references mention that, though
they do mention the alternatives I state above. Of course, one of the
books states that it is also acceptable to run the cable through the
shimmed space around the door, although I don't think I'd want to do
that, especially if later owners decide to take the door out and end up
cutting through the cable.

3. Speaking of running romex in the attic space, I will have to for the
sake of the outlets in the ceiling powering the garage door openers, as
well as the three carriage lights on the front of the garage (go from
one light up into the attic space over the garage doors then down to the
next). In both cases, the wire will have to run perpendicular to the
truss bottom chords (again, see pictures for clarification). Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic? My reference books talk about making a track
out of 2x4s and 2x6s that would sit on top of the chords, but that's a
bit of a pain, and at current lumber prices, a fair bit more expensive,
not to mention heavier, and they seem to offer only minimal protection
from above. If EMT is allowable per the NEC, do I have to run the
individual wires in it, or can I run the romex as is? I have seen EMT
run vertically on walls with the romex inside it as is. I know this is
a heat issue (and hence can result in derating of the romex), and I'm
curious if the requirements change according to the length of the run
within the EMT. Also, whether using the track or the EMT, what sort of
protection do I need to provide for the few inches of exposed wire at
the ends before the cable is fed back down into the garage wall?

4. On the side of the garage attached to the house, I was planning on
using 2x2 strips attached to the concrete / brick to support the
drywall. For electrical cable run along that wall, my intention was to
use 3/4" EMT and just have rather large notches in the 2x2s (which I
don't like either, but since I can fasten the boards directly to the old
exterior wall, it would likely be OK). However, I just started
wondering whether notching the 2x2s on the back side (against the
existing house) and running the romex flush against the concrete/brick
wall would be sufficient (i.e. much smaller notches since the EMT would
be out of the picture). The wire would be at least as far away from the
drywall as any other wall in the garage, and there is little worry about
hitting it from the other side (unless someone decides to bore through
the 8" of concrete foundation). Thoughts?

In the end, if I have to go with 2x4s for a "standard" stud wall, I
guess I will.

5. Although I can likely work around this, another question pertains to
drilling up through the bottom chord of the two end trusses to get the
wire up into the attic space. I don't expect a structural concern since
they are both fully supported by other means, but I thought I'd ask.

6. Now, regarding running the two romex cables into the basement (and to
the service panel), I will have to go through either concrete or brick,
though I haven't measured yet which one it'll be (probably brick). In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).


Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but these are the questions that make
be go hmmmmm....



Pics of the garage are located at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/kevindressel/

If you would like to see additional pics, I can certainly accommodate.



Thank you all a lot on this!

Regards,
Kevin

P.S. If you respond to me directly, take the _ out of the return email
address, but I will be checking this newsgroup regularly.

"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job (using NM 12-2) for my new attached garage. But, as you
might have guessed, I've got a few questions (actually a few more than a
few) that one of you folks might be able to help me with.

First, I'll fill you in on the background a bit. My ranch house used to
have a two car garage built into the basement. I didn't like that
arrangement, so I had a new two car garage built on that end of the
house (where the old "garage" was). The new garage is fastened to the
exterior brick wall of the house and opens into the basement (which will
be finished...in time). The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.) The garage
interior will eventually be drywalled and finished as well.

Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

That being the case, I've been reading up on wiring - both on the
web/usenet and in several reference books - and I think I'm now ready
tackle this project. Prior to submitting the permit application,
however, I'd like to pick some brains on a number of concerns I've
encountered while planning out the project. I posted some photos of the
garage to help explain what I'd like to do. Web address is below. So,
in no particular order, here I go....

1. What is the appropriate distance above or below an outlet box (and if
it applies, a switch as well) to drill the hole through the stud? One
reference calls for 6-8" above or below the box, while the other calls
for 12" above. Does above or below really matter? What drives the hole
location? The distance at which you staple the NM to the stud? If it
makes a difference (though I don't really see why it would), I do plan
on slapping nail plates on the studs.


Just drill the holes in the center of the studs


2. When encountering a window (or door), is it best practice to go below
the window (or above the door) through the cripple studs, or run the
romex through the attic space? Going through the cripples would save
romex and the need to protect the cable running through the attic, but
if there is a compelling reason to go up and over, I will plan it that
way.

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be? None of my references mention that, though
they do mention the alternatives I state above. Of course, one of the
books states that it is also acceptable to run the cable through the
shimmed space around the door, although I don't think I'd want to do
that, especially if later owners decide to take the door out and end up
cutting through the cable.


Do what's easiest for you. Sometimes using a little more cable will save a
lot of drilling. Don't install cables anywhere where they could be hit by
nails or screws



3. Speaking of running romex in the attic space, I will have to for the
sake of the outlets in the ceiling powering the garage door openers, as
well as the three carriage lights on the front of the garage (go from
one light up into the attic space over the garage doors then down to the
next). In both cases, the wire will have to run perpendicular to the
truss bottom chords (again, see pictures for clarification). Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic? My reference books talk about making a track
out of 2x4s and 2x6s that would sit on top of the chords, but that's a
bit of a pain, and at current lumber prices, a fair bit more expensive,
not to mention heavier, and they seem to offer only minimal protection
from above. If EMT is allowable per the NEC, do I have to run the
individual wires in it, or can I run the romex as is? I have seen EMT
run vertically on walls with the romex inside it as is. I know this is
a heat issue (and hence can result in derating of the romex), and I'm
curious if the requirements change according to the length of the run
within the EMT. Also, whether using the track or the EMT, what sort of
protection do I need to provide for the few inches of exposed wire at
the ends before the cable is fed back down into the garage wall?


Use wood or PVC for suplimental protection. Metal conduits can cut the
plastic and become energized, unless bonded



4. On the side of the garage attached to the house, I was planning on
using 2x2 strips attached to the concrete / brick to support the
drywall. For electrical cable run along that wall, my intention was to
use 3/4" EMT and just have rather large notches in the 2x2s (which I
don't like either, but since I can fasten the boards directly to the old
exterior wall, it would likely be OK). However, I just started
wondering whether notching the 2x2s on the back side (against the
existing house) and running the romex flush against the concrete/brick
wall would be sufficient (i.e. much smaller notches since the EMT would
be out of the picture). The wire would be at least as far away from the
drywall as any other wall in the garage, and there is little worry about
hitting it from the other side (unless someone decides to bore through
the 8" of concrete foundation). Thoughts?

Notch the back side and use nail plates on the front


In the end, if I have to go with 2x4s for a "standard" stud wall, I
guess I will.

5. Although I can likely work around this, another question pertains to
drilling up through the bottom chord of the two end trusses to get the
wire up into the attic space. I don't expect a structural concern since
they are both fully supported by other means, but I thought I'd ask.

6. Now, regarding running the two romex cables into the basement (and to
the service panel), I will have to go through either concrete or brick,
though I haven't measured yet which one it'll be (probably brick). In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

One hole is fine, don't make it to small


7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).

No
Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but these are the questions that make
be go hmmmmm....



Pics of the garage are located at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/kevindressel/

If you would like to see additional pics, I can certainly accommodate.



Thank you all a lot on this!

Regards,
Kevin

P.S. If you respond to me directly, take the _ out of the return email
address, but I will be checking this newsgroup regularly.

"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job

Seriously, call an electrician to have this DONE RIGHT for you.

2 circuits wouldn't even cover the lighting circuits I put in my 2-car
garage!

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:56:58 -0500, Kevin Dressel
wrote:

Hey all!

Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but these are the questions that make
be go hmmmmm....


I think you would get more feedback if you broke up each question or
two and posted them separately.

"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job (using NM 12-2) for my new attached garage. But, as you
might have guessed, I've got a few questions (actually a few more than a
few) that one of you folks might be able to help me with.

First, I'll fill you in on the background a bit. My ranch house used to
have a two car garage built into the basement. I didn't like that
arrangement, so I had a new two car garage built on that end of the
house (where the old "garage" was). The new garage is fastened to the
exterior brick wall of the house and opens into the basement (which will
be finished...in time). The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.) The garage
interior will eventually be drywalled and finished as well.

Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

That being the case, I've been reading up on wiring - both on the
web/usenet and in several reference books - and I think I'm now ready
tackle this project. Prior to submitting the permit application,
however, I'd like to pick some brains on a number of concerns I've
encountered while planning out the project. I posted some photos of the
garage to help explain what I'd like to do. Web address is below. So,
in no particular order, here I go....

1. What is the appropriate distance above or below an outlet box (and if
it applies, a switch as well) to drill the hole through the stud? One
reference calls for 6-8" above or below the box, while the other calls
for 12" above. Does above or below really matter? What drives the hole
location? The distance at which you staple the NM to the stud? If it
makes a difference (though I don't really see why it would), I do plan
on slapping nail plates on the studs.

2. When encountering a window (or door), is it best practice to go below
the window (or above the door) through the cripple studs, or run the
romex through the attic space? Going through the cripples would save
romex and the need to protect the cable running through the attic, but
if there is a compelling reason to go up and over, I will plan it that
way.

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be? None of my references mention that, though
they do mention the alternatives I state above. Of course, one of the
books states that it is also acceptable to run the cable through the
shimmed space around the door, although I don't think I'd want to do
that, especially if later owners decide to take the door out and end up
cutting through the cable.

3. Speaking of running romex in the attic space, I will have to for the
sake of the outlets in the ceiling powering the garage door openers, as
well as the three carriage lights on the front of the garage (go from
one light up into the attic space over the garage doors then down to the
next). In both cases, the wire will have to run perpendicular to the
truss bottom chords (again, see pictures for clarification). Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic? My reference books talk about making a track
out of 2x4s and 2x6s that would sit on top of the chords, but that's a
bit of a pain, and at current lumber prices, a fair bit more expensive,
not to mention heavier, and they seem to offer only minimal protection
from above. If EMT is allowable per the NEC, do I have to run the
individual wires in it, or can I run the romex as is? I have seen EMT
run vertically on walls with the romex inside it as is. I know this is
a heat issue (and hence can result in derating of the romex), and I'm
curious if the requirements change according to the length of the run
within the EMT. Also, whether using the track or the EMT, what sort of
protection do I need to provide for the few inches of exposed wire at
the ends before the cable is fed back down into the garage wall?

4. On the side of the garage attached to the house, I was planning on
using 2x2 strips attached to the concrete / brick to support the
drywall. For electrical cable run along that wall, my intention was to
use 3/4" EMT and just have rather large notches in the 2x2s (which I
don't like either, but since I can fasten the boards directly to the old
exterior wall, it would likely be OK). However, I just started
wondering whether notching the 2x2s on the back side (against the
existing house) and running the romex flush against the concrete/brick
wall would be sufficient (i.e. much smaller notches since the EMT would
be out of the picture). The wire would be at least as far away from the
drywall as any other wall in the garage, and there is little worry about
hitting it from the other side (unless someone decides to bore through
the 8" of concrete foundation). Thoughts?

In the end, if I have to go with 2x4s for a "standard" stud wall, I
guess I will.

5. Although I can likely work around this, another question pertains to
drilling up through the bottom chord of the two end trusses to get the
wire up into the attic space. I don't expect a structural concern since
they are both fully supported by other means, but I thought I'd ask.

6. Now, regarding running the two romex cables into the basement (and to
the service panel), I will have to go through either concrete or brick,
though I haven't measured yet which one it'll be (probably brick). In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).


I ran a sub-panel to my garage. You may want to reconsider your plan. It's
always better to over do it the first time than to redo it a second time.
I have control wires for door openers and electrical in close proximity in
my garage...no problems with it.

Kevin Dressel wrote:

Note that the last word in any electrical stuff is your local inspector.
You might want to run everything by them when you get your permit. If
there is a simplified code book available for your area, get it and read it.

The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.)

Make sure you keep it light. Most trusses (unless specified otherwise)
aren't rated for loads of that type.

Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

If you ever forsee using the space as a shop you may wish to consider a
heavier feed cable and a subpanel, along with extra outlets along the
walls. It would cost more, but would make future expansion MUCH
simpler. I recently bought a house and had to pull off the drywall and
insulation so I could rewire the garage.

1. What is the appropriate distance above or below an outlet box (and if
it applies, a switch as well) to drill the hole through the stud?

Usually it doesn't matter where the hole is as long as the wire is
stapled close to the box.

2. When encountering a window (or door), is it best practice to go below
the window (or above the door) through the cripple studs, or run the
romex through the attic space?

Go below.

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be?

Common sense would dictate far enough away that nails/screws going
through the studs won't hit the wire.

3. Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic?

Normally romex in EMT is a no-no, except for very short runs (a few feet
or so) used for mechanical protection. Around here cable in the attic
generally doesn't need mechanical protection since it's above 5'.

6. In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

Don't see why you can't use one hole...just make sure that there are no
sharp edges that could fray the cable.

7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).

Ideally you don't want them running parallel for long lengths. You
certainly are not allowed to put them in the same conduit.

Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but these are the questions that make
be go hmmmmm....

These are also the questions you should ask your inspector. Part of the
benefits of a permit is that they're supposed to be available to answer
questions based on the specifics of your local codes.

Chris

what the hell are you lighting? even a 15a single circuit is about 5 times
what you need in a two car garage.

--
Steve Barker







kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job

Seriously, call an electrician to have this DONE RIGHT for you.

2 circuits wouldn't even cover the lighting circuits I put in my 2-car
garage!

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
what the hell are you lighting? even a 15a single circuit is about 5
times
what you need in a two car garage.

--
Steve Barker


I knew that was coming... LOL

It's a 2-car garage/storage/workshop. :-)

I have 3 - 15 A lighting circuits.

1 covers the main inside and front outside lights (900 watts)
1 covers the side work area, extra lights around shelving and the attic
lights (750 watts)
1 covers the front work area and the outside peak light (725 watts)


But more importantly, this guy wants 2 circuits...

1 inside (for everything)
1 outside (for everything)

On Jul 19, 8:40 pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote:
what the hell are you lighting? even a 15a single circuit is about 5 times
what you need in a two car garage.

--
Steve Barker

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message

...



"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job

Seriously, call an electrician to have this DONE RIGHT for you.

2 circuits wouldn't even cover the lighting circuits I put in my 2-car
garage!

Agreed. My one car garage/shop 26' x 26' has 2 circuits for lights
(1100 watts total) and 1 for AC, another for a welder, 4 for GFI wall
outlets, one for 'office', 1 for (ahem) refreshment fridge, 1 for
heating system, etc. Service panel is QO Square D 100 amp. Might have
to add a sub panel for a better air compressor 5 HP or better. Maybe
should have put in 200 amp...

Joe

Chris Young is a Hack wrote in message
...

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
what the hell are you lighting? even a 15a single circuit is about 5
times
what you need in a two car garage.

--
Steve Barker


I knew that was coming... LOL

It's a 2-car garage/storage/workshop. :-)

I have 3 - 15 A lighting circuits.

1 covers the main inside and front outside lights (900 watts)
1 covers the side work area, extra lights around shelving and the attic
lights (750 watts)
1 covers the front work area and the outside peak light (725 watts)


But more importantly, this guy wants 2 circuits...

1 inside (for everything)
1 outside (for everything)


:-)

"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.)

Find out what the load carrying capability is before you do that. Trusses
are designed to hold a lot of weight on top of them, but not to act as a
floor with weight pulling down.


Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

That being the case, I've been reading up on wiring - both on the
web/usenet and in several reference books - and I think I'm now ready
tackle this project.

You are not ready yet. The questions you have should be covered in a good
book. You need to read up a bit more if you are going to tackle the job.

Most garages end up with some power tools too. What circuit are they going
to be on? Surely not the lighting circuit because you don't want to be
standing in the dark when an overloaded saw kills the breaker. Putting in
that circuit now is much easier than later. Using 14-2 for lighting
circuits makes sense too as it will be cheaper, easier to work with; use the
12-2 for the receptacles. Consider a sub panel for your setup.

You need more help than we can readily supply here.

Kevin Dressel wrote:
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job (using NM 12-2) for my new attached garage. But, as you
might have guessed, I've got a few questions (actually a few more than a
few) that one of you folks might be able to help me with.

[Snip the rest of the stuff]

Thanks all for the responses!

I already have a wood shop set up in the basement, so I don't really
foresee using the garage in that way. The closest I would come is
wheeling my table saw (contractor saw) outside for some cuts or maybe a
few lighter tools on occasion. No plans for a refrigerator out there
either. Frankly, there's just enough space for two cars and a motorcycle.

However, I will consider the subpanel idea for the sole purpose of
expansion.


But, the only "constant" loads would be the three fluorescent lights (6
40w bulbs total), and maybe a radio. The outside lights will probably
amount to 240w total (say, 4x60w), still far below a 20A circuit. But,
as many suggested, plan for the future. Cost is inconsequential to
doing it correctly.

In any case, I will run all of this past the inspector. I just wanted
some preliminary feedback.

Regards,
Kevin

All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going
back late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go
with 2 x 2s.

If ou us conduit, yu are going to wind up pulling wire. Thats a lot of
work. Rethink conduit.

IMHO, you need at least 3, probably 4, 20 amp circuits.

Bear in mind, you can only have 7 items per circuit.
This is a garage. Garages have a tendency to naturally evolve
into workshops. Workships with table saws, drill presses and
probably compressors. Garages also frequently sprout freezers.

Were it me (and it was about 25 years ago), I' have one circuit for
overhead lighting; a separate circuit for the 3 exterior lights and
exterior, GFCI
weather proof sockets (one in front, one on the side and 1 in back -
you'll never have enough outside plug ins for yard tools ), and at least
one and probably two for wall plugs every 6 feet around the interior
perimeter of the garage. I'd run the two garage door openers off the
overhead light circuit.


Kevin Dressel wrote:

Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job (using NM 12-2) for my new attached garage. But, as you
might have guessed, I've got a few questions (actually a few more than a
few) that one of you folks might be able to help me with.

First, I'll fill you in on the background a bit. My ranch house used to
have a two car garage built into the basement. I didn't like that
arrangement, so I had a new two car garage built on that end of the
house (where the old "garage" was). The new garage is fastened to the
exterior brick wall of the house and opens into the basement (which will
be finished...in time). The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.) The garage
interior will eventually be drywalled and finished as well.

Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

That being the case, I've been reading up on wiring - both on the
web/usenet and in several reference books - and I think I'm now ready
tackle this project. Prior to submitting the permit application,
however, I'd like to pick some brains on a number of concerns I've
encountered while planning out the project. I posted some photos of the
garage to help explain what I'd like to do. Web address is below. So,
in no particular order, here I go....

1. What is the appropriate distance above or below an outlet box (and if
it applies, a switch as well) to drill the hole through the stud? One
reference calls for 6-8" above or below the box, while the other calls
for 12" above. Does above or below really matter? What drives the hole
location? The distance at which you staple the NM to the stud? If it
makes a difference (though I don't really see why it would), I do plan
on slapping nail plates on the studs.

2. When encountering a window (or door), is it best practice to go below
the window (or above the door) through the cripple studs, or run the
romex through the attic space? Going through the cripples would save
romex and the need to protect the cable running through the attic, but
if there is a compelling reason to go up and over, I will plan it that
way.

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be? None of my references mention that, though
they do mention the alternatives I state above. Of course, one of the
books states that it is also acceptable to run the cable through the
shimmed space around the door, although I don't think I'd want to do
that, especially if later owners decide to take the door out and end up
cutting through the cable.

3. Speaking of running romex in the attic space, I will have to for the
sake of the outlets in the ceiling powering the garage door openers, as
well as the three carriage lights on the front of the garage (go from
one light up into the attic space over the garage doors then down to the
next). In both cases, the wire will have to run perpendicular to the
truss bottom chords (again, see pictures for clarification). Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic? My reference books talk about making a track
out of 2x4s and 2x6s that would sit on top of the chords, but that's a
bit of a pain, and at current lumber prices, a fair bit more expensive,
not to mention heavier, and they seem to offer only minimal protection
from above. If EMT is allowable per the NEC, do I have to run the
individual wires in it, or can I run the romex as is? I have seen EMT
run vertically on walls with the romex inside it as is. I know this is
a heat issue (and hence can result in derating of the romex), and I'm
curious if the requirements change according to the length of the run
within the EMT. Also, whether using the track or the EMT, what sort of
protection do I need to provide for the few inches of exposed wire at
the ends before the cable is fed back down into the garage wall?

4. On the side of the garage attached to the house, I was planning on
using 2x2 strips attached to the concrete / brick to support the
drywall. For electrical cable run along that wall, my intention was to
use 3/4" EMT and just have rather large notches in the 2x2s (which I
don't like either, but since I can fasten the boards directly to the old
exterior wall, it would likely be OK). However, I just started
wondering whether notching the 2x2s on the back side (against the
existing house) and running the romex flush against the concrete/brick
wall would be sufficient (i.e. much smaller notches since the EMT would
be out of the picture). The wire would be at least as far away from the
drywall as any other wall in the garage, and there is little worry about
hitting it from the other side (unless someone decides to bore through
the 8" of concrete foundation). Thoughts?

In the end, if I have to go with 2x4s for a "standard" stud wall, I
guess I will.

5. Although I can likely work around this, another question pertains to
drilling up through the bottom chord of the two end trusses to get the
wire up into the attic space. I don't expect a structural concern since
they are both fully supported by other means, but I thought I'd ask.

6. Now, regarding running the two romex cables into the basement (and to
the service panel), I will have to go through either concrete or brick,
though I haven't measured yet which one it'll be (probably brick). In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).


Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but these are the questions that make
be go hmmmmm....



Pics of the garage are located at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/kevindressel/

If you would like to see additional pics, I can certainly accommodate.



Thank you all a lot on this!

Regards,
Kevin

P.S. If you respond to me directly, take the _ out of the return email
address, but I will be checking this newsgroup regularly.

Where in the NEC, does it specify only 7 items per circuit, in a dwelling?




"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
. ..
All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going back
late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go with
2 x 2s.

If ou us conduit, yu are going to wind up pulling wire. Thats a lot of
work. Rethink conduit.

IMHO, you need at least 3, probably 4, 20 amp circuits.

Bear in mind, you can only have 7 items per circuit.
This is a garage. Garages have a tendency to naturally evolve
into workshops. Workships with table saws, drill presses and
probably compressors. Garages also frequently sprout freezers.

Were it me (and it was about 25 years ago), I' have one circuit for
overhead lighting; a separate circuit for the 3 exterior lights and
exterior, GFCI
weather proof sockets (one in front, one on the side and 1 in back -
you'll never have enough outside plug ins for yard tools ), and at least
one and probably two for wall plugs every 6 feet around the interior
perimeter of the garage. I'd run the two garage door openers off the
overhead light circuit.


Kevin Dressel wrote:

Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2 circuit
wiring job (using NM 12-2) for my new attached garage. But, as you
might have guessed, I've got a few questions (actually a few more than a
few) that one of you folks might be able to help me with.

First, I'll fill you in on the background a bit. My ranch house used to
have a two car garage built into the basement. I didn't like that
arrangement, so I had a new two car garage built on that end of the
house (where the old "garage" was). The new garage is fastened to the
exterior brick wall of the house and opens into the basement (which will
be finished...in time). The garage roof is built using trusses as
you'll see in the photos (I'd like to use some of the empty space up
there for light storage....holiday stuff, small boxes, etc.) The garage
interior will eventually be drywalled and finished as well.

Anyway, I am now ready to feed electric into the new garage. My current
intention is to run two circuits - one for the outside outlets / lights,
and one for the interior outlets / lights.

That being the case, I've been reading up on wiring - both on the
web/usenet and in several reference books - and I think I'm now ready
tackle this project. Prior to submitting the permit application,
however, I'd like to pick some brains on a number of concerns I've
encountered while planning out the project. I posted some photos of the
garage to help explain what I'd like to do. Web address is below. So,
in no particular order, here I go....

1. What is the appropriate distance above or below an outlet box (and if
it applies, a switch as well) to drill the hole through the stud? One
reference calls for 6-8" above or below the box, while the other calls
for 12" above. Does above or below really matter? What drives the hole
location? The distance at which you staple the NM to the stud? If it
makes a difference (though I don't really see why it would), I do plan
on slapping nail plates on the studs.

2. When encountering a window (or door), is it best practice to go below
the window (or above the door) through the cripple studs, or run the
romex through the attic space? Going through the cripples would save
romex and the need to protect the cable running through the attic, but
if there is a compelling reason to go up and over, I will plan it that
way.

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be? None of my references mention that, though
they do mention the alternatives I state above. Of course, one of the
books states that it is also acceptable to run the cable through the
shimmed space around the door, although I don't think I'd want to do
that, especially if later owners decide to take the door out and end up
cutting through the cable.

3. Speaking of running romex in the attic space, I will have to for the
sake of the outlets in the ceiling powering the garage door openers, as
well as the three carriage lights on the front of the garage (go from
one light up into the attic space over the garage doors then down to the
next). In both cases, the wire will have to run perpendicular to the
truss bottom chords (again, see pictures for clarification). Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic? My reference books talk about making a track
out of 2x4s and 2x6s that would sit on top of the chords, but that's a
bit of a pain, and at current lumber prices, a fair bit more expensive,
not to mention heavier, and they seem to offer only minimal protection
from above. If EMT is allowable per the NEC, do I have to run the
individual wires in it, or can I run the romex as is? I have seen EMT
run vertically on walls with the romex inside it as is. I know this is
a heat issue (and hence can result in derating of the romex), and I'm
curious if the requirements change according to the length of the run
within the EMT. Also, whether using the track or the EMT, what sort of
protection do I need to provide for the few inches of exposed wire at
the ends before the cable is fed back down into the garage wall?

4. On the side of the garage attached to the house, I was planning on
using 2x2 strips attached to the concrete / brick to support the
drywall. For electrical cable run along that wall, my intention was to
use 3/4" EMT and just have rather large notches in the 2x2s (which I
don't like either, but since I can fasten the boards directly to the old
exterior wall, it would likely be OK). However, I just started
wondering whether notching the 2x2s on the back side (against the
existing house) and running the romex flush against the concrete/brick
wall would be sufficient (i.e. much smaller notches since the EMT would
be out of the picture). The wire would be at least as far away from the
drywall as any other wall in the garage, and there is little worry about
hitting it from the other side (unless someone decides to bore through
the 8" of concrete foundation). Thoughts?

In the end, if I have to go with 2x4s for a "standard" stud wall, I
guess I will.

5. Although I can likely work around this, another question pertains to
drilling up through the bottom chord of the two end trusses to get the
wire up into the attic space. I don't expect a structural concern since
they are both fully supported by other means, but I thought I'd ask.

6. Now, regarding running the two romex cables into the basement (and to
the service panel), I will have to go through either concrete or brick,
though I haven't measured yet which one it'll be (probably brick). In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).


Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but these are the questions that make
be go hmmmmm....



Pics of the garage are located at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/kevindressel/

If you would like to see additional pics, I can certainly accommodate.



Thank you all a lot on this!

Regards,
Kevin

P.S. If you respond to me directly, take the _ out of the return email
address, but I will be checking this newsgroup regularly.

In article , jJim McLaughlin wrote:
All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.
[...]
Bear in mind, you can only have 7 items per circuit.

Where's that in the NEC?

This is a garage. Garages have a tendency to naturally evolve
into workshops.

You missed something important in the original post -- this part:

First, I'll fill you in on the background a bit. My ranch house used to
have a two car garage built into the basement. I didn't like that
arrangement, so I had a new two car garage built on that end of the
house (where the old "garage" was).

If the OP is going to have a garage evolving into a workshop, it's gonna be
the one that's already inside the house, not the new one he's asking about
wiring.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...

Also, if you go through the cripples, is there a distance away from the
door/window you have to be?

Common sense would dictate far enough away that nails/screws going through
the studs won't hit the wire.

Agreed! I like to think that most things electrical are based on common
sense.


3. Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic?

Normally romex in EMT is a no-no, except for very short runs (a few feet
or so) used for mechanical protection. Around here cable in the attic
generally doesn't need mechanical protection since it's above 5'.

Since I don't have a copy of the NEC, I don't know specifically what it says
in regards
to romex in conduit, but there sure has been a ton of discussion on the
subject. Problem is
that half of the discussion condradicts the other half. As you mentioned,
the inspector
has the final say, so I will be asking him.


6. In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

Don't see why you can't use one hole...just make sure that there are no
sharp edges that could fray the cable.

Excellent point here! I'll make darned sure the hole is both big enough to
accomodate the cable
and softened up around the edges.



These are also the questions you should ask your inspector. Part of the
benefits of a permit is that they're supposed to be available to answer
questions based on the specifics of your local codes.

Chris


As I mentioned earlier, I will be running all of this past the inspector.
However, in my town, there
is only one guy who handles a multitude of tasks (he's the fire chief, head
of zoning, electrical, and a number
of other things) so he's almost always busy and pretty hard to get hold of
(I've tried a couple times already).
Hence my reasons for touching base here first.

Cheers,
Kevin

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 19, 8:40 pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote:
what the hell are you lighting? even a 15a single circuit is about 5
times
what you need in a two car garage.

--
Steve Barker

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message

...



"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2
circuit
wiring job

Seriously, call an electrician to have this DONE RIGHT for you.

2 circuits wouldn't even cover the lighting circuits I put in my 2-car
garage!

Agreed. My one car garage/shop 26' x 26' has 2 circuits for lights
(1100 watts total) and 1 for AC, another for a welder, 4 for GFI wall
outlets, one for 'office', 1 for (ahem) refreshment fridge, 1 for
heating system, etc. Service panel is QO Square D 100 amp. Might have
to add a sub panel for a better air compressor 5 HP or better. Maybe
should have put in 200 amp...

Joe


I don't understand the need for two circuits for 1100 watts of lighting,
other than,
perhaps, wiring convenience. Heck, a single 20A will still give you a 10+
amps of
additional capacity to play with. Bragging rights, perhaps???

In article , "Kevin" wrote:

Since I don't have a copy of the NEC, I don't know specifically what it says
in regards to romex in conduit, but there sure has been a ton of discussion on the
subject. Problem is that half of the discussion condradicts the other half.

I have, and I do. There is *no* NEC violation involved in putting NM cable
("Romex") in conduit in any location where the cable is permitted to be
*without* conduit. Anyone who claims there is, is invited to cite the article
of the Code which says so.

As you mentioned, the inspector has the final say, so I will be asking him.

Yep. Always best. There may be prohibitions in your local building codes that
are not in the national code.


6. In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

Don't see why you can't use one hole...just make sure that there are no
sharp edges that could fray the cable.

Excellent point here! I'll make darned sure the hole is both big enough to
accomodate the cable and softened up around the edges.

Hold on a minute there. NM cable is *not* permitted to be embedded in masonry.
It *is* permitted "to be installed or fished in air voids in masonry block
walls." [Article 334.10(A)(2)] You'd better check with your local electrical
inspector to see whether he thinks this specific installation is "embedded" or
"fished in [an] air void".

Or you could install a conduit through the concrete wall, and run your cable
through the conduit.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "Kevin" wrote:


Since I don't have a copy of the NEC, I don't know specifically what it says
in regards to romex in conduit, but there sure has been a ton of discussion on the
subject. Problem is that half of the discussion condradicts the other half.


I have, and I do. There is *no* NEC violation involved in putting NM cable
("Romex") in conduit in any location where the cable is permitted to be
*without* conduit. Anyone who claims there is, is invited to cite the article
of the Code which says so.


As you mentioned, the inspector has the final say, so I will be asking him.


Yep. Always best. There may be prohibitions in your local building codes that
are not in the national code.

Well, I do know the permit application states that electrical work will
be done to the "National Electric Code, NFPA 70", so there shouldn't be
any surprises beyond the NEC rqmts (I'd hope anyway).



6. In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

Don't see why you can't use one hole...just make sure that there are no
sharp edges that could fray the cable.

Excellent point here! I'll make darned sure the hole is both big enough to
accomodate the cable and softened up around the edges.


Hold on a minute there. NM cable is *not* permitted to be embedded in masonry.
It *is* permitted "to be installed or fished in air voids in masonry block
walls." [Article 334.10(A)(2)] You'd better check with your local electrical
inspector to see whether he thinks this specific installation is "embedded" or
"fished in [an] air void".

Or you could install a conduit through the concrete wall, and run your cable
through the conduit.


Yeah, I thought about the conduit through the masonry, not so much for
the reasons you're stating, but for the sharp edges comment. Of course,
depending on the size of wire I need to pull through, I'll have to find
a pretty large masonry bit (I actually have one as large as 5/8", but
that's it). If I decide to go the subpanel way (maybe 60A) - and I just
might the more I think about it, I figure I'll need a pretty good sized
hole.


Thanks Doug!

Regards,
Kevin

jJim McLaughlin wrote:
All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going
back late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go
with 2 x 2s.



My reasons for using 2x2s rather than 2x4s was to minimize the end width
of the wall between the basement and the garage. Since the doorway is
currently mounted in the 8" foundation wall, adding 2x4s in a
conventional manner would result in a roughly 12" width. Starts getting
excessive in my opinion. If someone was to finish the inside wall as
well (I plan on leaving this part of the basement unfinished), using
2x4s there as well would make the wall width 16". Starts to feel like a
small hallway!

In the end, cost is not even factoring in the equation (well, may a
little, but definitely not the driver).


By biggest problem with the 2x2s was protecting the romex. But, as I
mentioned in the initial posting, I could run the romed flush against
the masonry wall, and just notch the back side of the 2x2s. This would
put the romex far enough back to meet the edge distance requirement.
But, would that be legal?

Cheers,
Kevin

"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
. ..
All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going
back late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go
with 2 x 2s.

If ou us conduit, yu are going to wind up pulling wire. Thats a lot of
work. Rethink conduit.

IMHO, you need at least 3, probably 4, 20 amp circuits.

Bear in mind, you can only have 7 items per circuit.
This is a garage. Garages have a tendency to naturally evolve
into workshops. Workships with table saws, drill presses and
probably compressors. Garages also frequently sprout freezers.

Were it me (and it was about 25 years ago), I' have one circuit for
overhead lighting; a separate circuit for the 3 exterior lights and
exterior, GFCI
weather proof sockets (one in front, one on the side and 1 in back -
you'll never have enough outside plug ins for yard tools ), and at least
one and probably two for wall plugs every 6 feet around the interior
perimeter of the garage. I'd run the two garage door openers off the
overhead light circuit.


Yeah, so when your garage door opener blows the circuit, you'll have no
lights.

That's really planning ahead!

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Where in the NEC, does it specify only 7 items per circuit, in a dwelling?


It's on that page they left out... :-)

"Kevin" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 19, 8:40 pm, "Steve Barker"
wrote:
what the hell are you lighting? even a 15a single circuit is about 5
times
what you need in a two car garage.

--
Steve Barker

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message

...



"Kevin Dressel" wrote in message
...
Hey all!

I am in the early planning stages of what will eventually be a 2
circuit
wiring job

Seriously, call an electrician to have this DONE RIGHT for you.

2 circuits wouldn't even cover the lighting circuits I put in my
2-car
garage!

Agreed. My one car garage/shop 26' x 26' has 2 circuits for lights
(1100 watts total) and 1 for AC, another for a welder, 4 for GFI wall
outlets, one for 'office', 1 for (ahem) refreshment fridge, 1 for
heating system, etc. Service panel is QO Square D 100 amp. Might have
to add a sub panel for a better air compressor 5 HP or better. Maybe
should have put in 200 amp...

Joe


I don't understand the need for two circuits for 1100 watts of lighting,
other than,
perhaps, wiring convenience. Heck, a single 20A will still give you a 10+
amps of
additional capacity to play with. Bragging rights, perhaps???


Perhaps if one circuit blows or needs repair, you still have lighting???

In article , Kevin Dressel wrote:

Yeah, I thought about the conduit through the masonry, not so much for
the reasons you're stating, but for the sharp edges comment.

Sharp edges are actually more of an issue with EMT than they are with masonry;
make sure you use a threaded adapter and a plastic bushing at each end of the
conduit to protect the cable.

Of course,
depending on the size of wire I need to pull through, I'll have to find
a pretty large masonry bit (I actually have one as large as 5/8", but
that's it). If I decide to go the subpanel way (maybe 60A) - and I just
might the more I think about it, I figure I'll need a pretty good sized
hole.

Star drill and a three-pound hand sledge... BTDT. Takes a while, but it does
work, and the good news is you only have to do it once.

Thanks Doug!

Regards,
Kevin

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Kevin Dressel wrote:
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going
back late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go
with 2 x 2s.



My reasons for using 2x2s rather than 2x4s was to minimize the end width
of the wall between the basement and the garage. Since the doorway is
currently mounted in the 8" foundation wall, adding 2x4s in a
conventional manner would result in a roughly 12" width. Starts getting
excessive in my opinion. If someone was to finish the inside wall as
well (I plan on leaving this part of the basement unfinished), using
2x4s there as well would make the wall width 16". Starts to feel like a
small hallway!

In the end, cost is not even factoring in the equation (well, may a
little, but definitely not the driver).


By biggest problem with the 2x2s was protecting the romex. But, as I
mentioned in the initial posting, I could run the romed flush against
the masonry wall, and just notch the back side of the 2x2s. This would
put the romex far enough back to meet the edge distance requirement.
But, would that be legal?

Cheers,
Kevin

IMHO, by the time you notch the 2 x 2 to clear the Romex you might as
well
not have any wood.

If you ever want to sheet rock out that wall, the 2" x 2" isn't practical.

jJim McLaughlin wrote:

My reasons for using 2x2s rather than 2x4s was to minimize the end
width of the wall between the basement and the garage. Since the
doorway is currently mounted in the 8" foundation wall, adding 2x4s in
a conventional manner would result in a roughly 12" width. Starts
getting excessive in my opinion. If someone was to finish the inside
wall as well (I plan on leaving this part of the basement unfinished),
using 2x4s there as well would make the wall width 16". Starts to
feel like a small hallway!

In the end, cost is not even factoring in the equation (well, may a
little, but definitely not the driver).


By biggest problem with the 2x2s was protecting the romex. But, as I
mentioned in the initial posting, I could run the romed flush against
the masonry wall, and just notch the back side of the 2x2s. This
would put the romex far enough back to meet the edge distance
requirement. But, would that be legal?

Cheers,
Kevin


IMHO, by the time you notch the 2 x 2 to clear the Romex you might as
well
not have any wood.

If you ever want to sheet rock out that wall, the 2" x 2" isn't practical.



I was thinking about this today some more. If I go with the subpanel
idea (and the more I think about it, the more I like it...if for no
other reason than convenience), I may have to go the 2x4 approach
anyway. I'll just have to come up with a way to make the doorway look
less hallway-ish... :-

Thanks,
Kevin

According to Kevin Dressel :

3. Speaking of running romex in the attic space, I will have to for the
sake of the outlets in the ceiling powering the garage door openers, as
well as the three carriage lights on the front of the garage (go from
one light up into the attic space over the garage doors then down to the
next). In both cases, the wire will have to run perpendicular to the
truss bottom chords (again, see pictures for clarification). Can 3/4"
EMT be used as an adequate protection for the cable for the short runs
(15' or so) in the attic?

There's a good chance that the inspector will allow you to run
bare romex along the underside of the trusses. _Especially_ if you
intend to drywall the ceiling. In my case, I had 1x3 lath installed
for the ceiling. The inspector said I could run ordinary romex
perpendicular to the trusses stapled to the truss bottoms. I only
needed to put a chunk of lath on top of the existing lath whenever
the wire crossed a line of lath (when going parallel to the trusses)
so that the lath face-to-wire distance was 1 1/4"). The existing
lath was deemed to be adequate mechanical protection from being hit
from below even before the drywall is installed (if ever ;-).

4. On the side of the garage attached to the house, I was planning on
using 2x2 strips attached to the concrete / brick to support the
drywall. For electrical cable run along that wall, my intention was to
use 3/4" EMT and just have rather large notches in the 2x2s (which I
don't like either, but since I can fasten the boards directly to the old
exterior wall, it would likely be OK). However, I just started
wondering whether notching the 2x2s on the back side (against the
existing house) and running the romex flush against the concrete/brick
wall would be sufficient (i.e. much smaller notches since the EMT would
be out of the picture). The wire would be at least as far away from the
drywall as any other wall in the garage, and there is little worry about
hitting it from the other side (unless someone decides to bore through
the 8" of concrete foundation). Thoughts?

I think you'd be better off using at _least_ 2x3. Especially if you want
to insulate.

In the end, if I have to go with 2x4s for a "standard" stud wall, I
guess I will.

That's probably best.

5. Although I can likely work around this, another question pertains to
drilling up through the bottom chord of the two end trusses to get the
wire up into the attic space. I don't expect a structural concern since
they are both fully supported by other means, but I thought I'd ask.

Drilling trusses is a no-no. Best to find an alternate.

6. Now, regarding running the two romex cables into the basement (and to
the service panel), I will have to go through either concrete or brick,
though I haven't measured yet which one it'll be (probably brick). In
either case, I'll have a hole going through anywhere from 4 to 8" of
masonry. Can I feed both runs through a single hole, or should I drill
two? Not a big deal, just extra effort.

One is enough, make sure it's more than big enough.

[It can get stickier if it was for more than a foot or so.]

Note that all wall penetrations have to be well sealed. Including
cable holes.

7. Last question....for now anyway....has anyone ever experienced
interference running electrical along side the control wires for the
garage door (particularly, these are the ones that lead to the safety
beams near the bottom of the garage door).

Electrical code says 12" minimum separation when run parallel, and
cross only at 90% angles for low voltage wiring. You're not likely
to see an interference problem even if you do violate that _except_
possibly with the sensors. You might be able to minimize that if
each pair of wires is twisted. Better to avoid it.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
. ..

All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going
back late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go
with 2 x 2s.

If ou us conduit, yu are going to wind up pulling wire. Thats a lot of
work. Rethink conduit.

IMHO, you need at least 3, probably 4, 20 amp circuits.

Bear in mind, you can only have 7 items per circuit.
This is a garage. Garages have a tendency to naturally evolve
into workshops. Workships with table saws, drill presses and
probably compressors. Garages also frequently sprout freezers.

Were it me (and it was about 25 years ago), I' have one circuit for
overhead lighting; a separate circuit for the 3 exterior lights and
exterior, GFCI
weather proof sockets (one in front, one on the side and 1 in back -
you'll never have enough outside plug ins for yard tools ), and at least
one and probably two for wall plugs every 6 feet around the interior
perimeter of the garage. I'd run the two garage door openers off the
overhead light circuit.



Yeah, so when your garage door opener blows the circuit, you'll have no
lights.

That's really planning ahead!



Really?

How often do garage door openers blow a circuit?

But if one does blow, you use a drop light from the wall outlets and to
do a repar
or a disconnect from the ighting circui, and you actualy have power from
the wall
outets to run tools that might be necessay to do a repair.

You put the openers on the lighing circuit because they are low current
draws with
only intermuittant use, unlike the freezer, the bench tools, the full
size tools, etc.,
which eventually end up in the garage.

It is planning ahead.

But you are such an antagonistic, obnoxious jerk, that never ocurred to
you, did it.

"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
...
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
. ..

All your questions are answered in your local codes and the NEC.

Quick personall observation: You are being cheap and not thinking
ahead.
You don't have enough circuits.

Romex is cheaper than labor. You don't want to do tis twice, going
back late to add additional circits.

Lumber is cheaper than labor. Don't skimp on 2 x 4s by trying to go
with 2 x 2s.

If ou us conduit, yu are going to wind up pulling wire. Thats a lot of
work. Rethink conduit.

IMHO, you need at least 3, probably 4, 20 amp circuits.

Bear in mind, you can only have 7 items per circuit.
This is a garage. Garages have a tendency to naturally evolve
into workshops. Workships with table saws, drill presses and
probably compressors. Garages also frequently sprout freezers.

Were it me (and it was about 25 years ago), I' have one circuit for
overhead lighting; a separate circuit for the 3 exterior lights and
exterior, GFCI
weather proof sockets (one in front, one on the side and 1 in back -
you'll never have enough outside plug ins for yard tools ), and at least
one and probably two for wall plugs every 6 feet around the interior
perimeter of the garage. I'd run the two garage door openers off the
overhead light circuit.



Yeah, so when your garage door opener blows the circuit, you'll have no
lights.

That's really planning ahead!



Really?

How often do garage door openers blow a circuit?


All it takes is once, Asshole!


But if one does blow, you use a drop light from the wall outlets and to
do a repar
or a disconnect from the ighting circui, and you actualy have power from
the wall
outets to run tools that might be necessay to do a repair.


Disconnect it, you still have no lighting... without using extension cords,
Asshole!


You put the openers on the lighing circuit because they are low current
draws with
only intermuittant use, unlike the freezer, the bench tools, the full
size tools, etc.,
which eventually end up in the garage.

It is planning ahead.

But you are such an antagonistic, obnoxious jerk, that never ocurred to
you, did it.


Low current doesn't account for the possibility of a tripped circuit!

What a complete, idiot!