Hiya Folks,
I've thumbed through the NEC Code book and couldn't find (or missed) an
answer to this install question.
Is there a minimum height that Romex needs to be installed above the
finished floor? I'm trying to add a circuit for
outdoor lighting and want the light switch in with the other hall switches.
Unfortunately, I'd have to tear into the
drywall to do it and quite frankly, I'm a pretty poor mud/tape/texture guy.
I was hoping to come in and put the
romex down low and cover it up with a new baseboard (rabbited in the back to
cover the wiring). I'll prolly have to
install some sort of metal plate in the rabbit to protect the wire from
future nails should there be any but I wouldn't think that would
be too difficult. Another option would be to install the wiring in
wiremold and then recess this into the back of the
baseboard. I'm going to wood floors so the baseboard will be fairly
substantial and I shouldn't have a problem
fitting the wiring into it. Just not sure if this is allowed by the NEC or
not.
Thanks much,
jlc

James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
Hiya Folks,
I've thumbed through the NEC Code book and couldn't find (or missed) an
answer to this install question.
Is there a minimum height that Romex needs to be installed above the
finished floor? I'm trying to add a circuit for
outdoor lighting and want the light switch in with the other hall switches.
Unfortunately, I'd have to tear into the
drywall to do it and quite frankly, I'm a pretty poor mud/tape/texture guy.
I was hoping to come in and put the
romex down low and cover it up with a new baseboard (rabbited in the back to
cover the wiring). I'll prolly have to
install some sort of metal plate in the rabbit to protect the wire from
future nails should there be any but I wouldn't think that would
be too difficult. Another option would be to install the wiring in
wiremold and then recess this into the back of the
baseboard. I'm going to wood floors so the baseboard will be fairly
substantial and I shouldn't have a problem
fitting the wiring into it. Just not sure if this is allowed by the NEC or
not.
Thanks much,
jlc




If you are removing the baseboard anyway just cut away the plaster
behind it. This will give you access to the bottom of the wall studs.
Just bore a hole in the center of each stud a few inches up from the
plate. The whole should be no bigger than 3/4" and must actually be
centered. You then pull your new cable through the bored holes and fish
it up to the switch box.

--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Hiya,
I'm not removing the drywall. And if I did, it would only be a couple
of inches at most which means I wouldn't be high enough to reach the
studs. So no fishing through studs here. I could remove some of the
drywall, say a couple of inches, and mount the wires directly to the
sill plates (bottom of wall). I'd still need a 1/16" plate of some
sort for protection. I'm just wondering if this is legal to mount so
close to the floor. I can't see why it wouldn't be but not sure.
This is for a bedroom, not a wet location.
Cheers,
cc

James,

Is there a minimum height that Romex needs to be installed above the
finished floor?

I don't think it matters as long as the cable is adequately protected.

I ran mine along the top of the sole plate inside our walls to make
insulating easier. My inspector had no problems with it.

I'm trying to add a circuit for outdoor lighting and want the light
switch in with the other hall switches. Unfortunately, I'd have to
tear into the drywall to do it and quite frankly, I'm a pretty poor
mud/tape/texture guy.

Have you investigated other routes for the wire?

Maybe run the wire down to a basement or crawlspace, over to the other
side, then back up to the lights?

Or maybe up into the attic, over to the other side, then back down to the
lights?

I was hoping to come in and put the romex down low and cover it up with
a new baseboard (rabbited in the back to cover the wiring).

I don't think that would pass code, as it would be too easy to pierce the
cable with a nail or screw. Bare romex should be set back at least 1-1/2"
from the face of the studs (so 1-5/8" drywall screws won't pierce it).

As another poster mentioned, you may be able to remove the baseboard, cut
away the plaster behind it, and drill holes in the studs. Then fish
your cable, fill the gap with sheetrock or wood, and reapply the baseboard.
This would be fairly easy if your baseboard is 4-6 inches high. Difficult
to impossible if it's only 2" high.

If you REALLY do not have any alternatives, I would run conduit behind the
baseboard, then run individual wires through the conduit (no romex in
conduit). I would probably cut away the plaster and set the conduit in that
area, rather than cut into the baseboard. But, depending on the size of
conduit you use, you might have to do both.

I'm going to wood floors so the baseboard will be fairly substantial

If you are "installing" new wood floors, another option would be to route
the wiring in the floor. If the joists run the right direction, you may be
able to cut a couple of holes at each end and fish the wire along the joist
bay. Otherwise, it wouldn't be that difficult to cut back the subfloor,
drill through the joists, run your cable, and reattach the subfloor. Then
add your new wood flooring.

Good luck!

Anthony

Hiya Anthony,
Thanks for the inputs. Unfortunately, it appears my approach may be
the only option I have (a few variations). I have no basement, no
crawlspace, no joists, and no attic. This is a slab on grade, flat
roofed house so many of the options you list won't work. I was under
the impression that if I protect the wire with 1/16" metal, I could
pretty much mount anywhere (ie, in the wall behind the molding or the
moulding itself), at least that's how they do it with adobe walls here
and I saw many references to this method in the NEC. Just wasn't sure
if I could mount that low to the floor. As I said, I can't imagine
why but at the end of the day, the NEC is a helluva lot smarter than I
am! Thanks for all the help!
Cheers,
cc

Listen romex CANNOT be left into exposed areas where people live.

Cutting the drywall near the floor really isnt that bad. You can
patch and hack it up to your hearts content when you are
finished because you'll be covering it up with molding.

If your saving the effort (an money) of using an electician,
get new colonial moldings (4" high) and they will cover it
all up.

If you use condiut or BX cable in those areas, it'll look like crap.
If the time ever comes to sell it, it WILL be a problem with
an inspector. (they might not like it and may ask if you ever
got a permit for the work done)

Tom
P.S. the other option is if its a crawl space or a basement under the
floor is to drill up through the floor into the walls. Too much of a
pain
in the ass if you ask me.

Ok, I do not have a crawl space or basement. If I removed 4" of
drywall from the bottom of the wall, I still couldn't get into the
studs very well (~ 1" to get a drill in there etc... I'm not sure that
would work very well). I haven't decided yet on mouldings so I may
have some lee way there in terms of taking more drywall out. Anyway,
thanks for the inputs.
Cheers,
cc

"Cubby" wrote in message
ups.com...
Ok, I do not have a crawl space or basement. If I removed 4" of
drywall from the bottom of the wall, I still couldn't get into the
studs very well (~ 1" to get a drill in there etc... I'm not sure that
would work very well). I haven't decided yet on mouldings so I may
have some lee way there in terms of taking more drywall out. Anyway,
thanks for the inputs.

Have you considered wainscotting? That would cover the lower 36" of the
wall - LOTS of room to remove drywall and hit the center of the studs withe
5/8" hole. It would probably look classier in the long run as well!

I have and no, it won't work for me. This house is a southwestern
style house and wainscotting just wouldn't look right. If it were a
more traditional style house, then yes, I'd be considering that route.
Cheers,
cc

Cubby wrote:
Hiya,
I'm not removing the drywall. And if I did, it would only be a couple
of inches at most which means I wouldn't be high enough to reach the
studs. So no fishing through studs here. I could remove some of the
drywall, say a couple of inches, and mount the wires directly to the
sill plates (bottom of wall). I'd still need a 1/16" plate of some
sort for protection. I'm just wondering if this is legal to mount so
close to the floor. I can't see why it wouldn't be but not sure.
This is for a bedroom, not a wet location.
Cheers,
cc


I am suggesting that you remove the drywall that will be hidden by the
baseboard. If your using six inch base board then you will have access
to more than enough of the bottom of the stud to bore centered holes
through them. By pulling the cable through those centered holes it will
be the requisite one and one quarter inches from the face of the stud
and no further protection against nails and screws is required by the US
NEC. You then pad out the wall to the thickness of the drywall using
lumber that is plained to that thickness if necessary. If the drywall
and backing boards are fastened with screws you can remove it again if
the need arises. Since this does not result in the need to finish
drywall you can produce a finished job with a good appearance.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Cubby,

I have no basement, no crawlspace, no joists,
and no attic. This is a slab on grade

Oh, that explains a lot...

I was under the impression that if I protect the wire with 1/16" metal,
I could pretty much mount anywhere

As long as the metal was at least a few inches high, probably so. Remember
that nails sometimes hit knots and bend when they get driven in. So, you
may protect the face of the wire, only to have a nail driven higher bend
down and penetrate the wire from the top.

That's why I suggested conduit. It protects all around the wiring. It can
even be left exposed if you wish, though it would look terrible!

Anthony

Thanks Anthony. I just haven't given much thought to the wood floors yet
as this wall has consumed all my project thoughts . But, I am now
thinking about the conduit route as I will probably have moulding that is
taller than I do now and more stout. Thanks for all your help. It
appears I can install close to the floor at least and that was my main
concern. Now to work out the details.
Cheers,
cc

As long as the metal was at least a few inches high, probably so. Remember
that nails sometimes hit knots and bend when they get driven in. So, you
may protect the face of the wire, only to have a nail driven higher bend
down and penetrate the wire from the top.

That's why I suggested conduit. It protects all around the wiring. It can
even be left exposed if you wish, though it would look terrible!

Anthony

I still dont get why cutting an inch or two from the bottom to drill
into the studs
and run wires up a few inches to the outlets is a big deal. It really
isnt.
To put the outlets in, buy a few "old work" outlets, measure and cut
out
the sheetrock. Run all your wires, put the outlets into the walls and
click them in place. You are not ripping apart the walls and its
something
that any good electrician would do.

In the end it will look like the house always had it. Running wires
like
this looks crappy and will be flagged by an inspector some day. So why
bother?

Tom

The sill plates sit 3" above the slab. For me to gain access to the studs,
I'd have to remove more than "an inch or two". More like 4-6".
I'm not putting any outlets in. Only a switch. I still may be able to do
this however, depending on the moulding I decide on for the baseboards. I
would prefer to go this route but still not sure I can until I get to
planning the wood floor and baseboard project. As for looking crappy, no
one would ever see what I had proposed unless they tear off the baseboards.
It would look the same as installing the wire through the studs in the wall.
Cheers,
cc

wrote in message
oups.com...
I still dont get why cutting an inch or two from the bottom to drill
into the studs
and run wires up a few inches to the outlets is a big deal. It really
isnt.
To put the outlets in, buy a few "old work" outlets, measure and cut
out
the sheetrock. Run all your wires, put the outlets into the walls and
click them in place. You are not ripping apart the walls and its
something
that any good electrician would do.

In the end it will look like the house always had it. Running wires
like
this looks crappy and will be flagged by an inspector some day. So why
bother?

Tom

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
Hiya Folks,
I've thumbed through the NEC Code book and couldn't find (or missed) an
answer to this install question.
Is there a minimum height that Romex needs to be installed above the
finished floor? I'm trying to add a circuit for
outdoor lighting and want the light switch in with the other hall
switches. Unfortunately, I'd have to tear into the
drywall to do it and quite frankly, I'm a pretty poor mud/tape/texture
guy. I was hoping to come in and put the
romex down low and cover it up with a new baseboard (rabbited in the back
to cover the wiring). I'll prolly have to
install some sort of metal plate in the rabbit to protect the wire from
future nails should there be any but I wouldn't think that would
be too difficult. Another option would be to install the wiring in
wiremold and then recess this into the back of the
baseboard. I'm going to wood floors so the baseboard will be fairly
substantial and I shouldn't have a problem
fitting the wiring into it. Just not sure if this is allowed by the NEC
or not.
Thanks much,
jlc
Just to follow-up, here's what I ended up doing. I figured I'd be putting
4-5 inch moulding on the walls after I do the floors so I basically removed
the drywall 4 inches from the floor. That was enough to get my drill in
there to punch holes through the studs. I had one corner that I had to
notch the framing vs. drill it but put plates over the romex for protection.
All in all, not a big deal and it'll all get covered up soon anyway. Thanks
for all the suggestions.
Cheers,
cc

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
...
Hiya Folks,
I've thumbed through the NEC Code book and couldn't find (or missed) an
answer to this install question.
Is there a minimum height that Romex needs to be installed above the
finished floor? I'm trying to add a circuit for
outdoor lighting and want the light switch in with the other hall
switches. Unfortunately, I'd have to tear into the
drywall to do it and quite frankly, I'm a pretty poor mud/tape/texture
guy. I was hoping to come in and put the
romex down low and cover it up with a new baseboard (rabbited in the
back
to cover the wiring). I'll prolly have to
install some sort of metal plate in the rabbit to protect the wire from
future nails should there be any but I wouldn't think that would
be too difficult. Another option would be to install the wiring in
wiremold and then recess this into the back of the
baseboard. I'm going to wood floors so the baseboard will be fairly
substantial and I shouldn't have a problem
fitting the wiring into it. Just not sure if this is allowed by the
NEC
or not.
Thanks much,
jlc
Just to follow-up, here's what I ended up doing. I figured I'd be
putting
4-5 inch moulding on the walls after I do the floors so I basically
removed
the drywall 4 inches from the floor. That was enough to get my drill in
there to punch holes through the studs. I had one corner that I had to
notch the framing vs. drill it but put plates over the romex for
protection.
All in all, not a big deal and it'll all get covered up soon anyway.
Thanks
for all the suggestions.
Cheers,
cc



The rules for new construction are one thing.

Retrofitting an existing building is another.

And local codes can vary as to what passes and what does not.
(but it usually comes down to common sense things)

If in doubt, and there is a higher chance of the wire being damaged by nails
etc.
most areas require you cover with a metal plate (as you are already doing)
and/or use armored cable (BX) of a suitable gauge for the load, and that the
circuit be properly fused.

AMUN