Tim Smith wrote:
In article , dpb wrote:
I presume that you have an attorney representing you for the closing. I
That's a regional thing, so depends on where they are. In many parts of
the country, an attorney is usually not used for closing.
That's a personal mistake thing, not necessarily regional...biggest
investment most people make in their lives and they wing it...to save a
few hundred bucks, maybe.

Who said anything about winging it? The title company in most of the
western US handles closing. There would be no point in bringing a
lawyer. Here's how it works.

The title company receives all the paperwork from the mortgage company,
and arranges for the seller to come in and sign all the documents the
seller needs to sign.

....

That they _can_ and do is one thing, that a buyer should have their own
representation is another. It's a CYA kinda' thing -- most often,
things are fine, but if there's a glitch, it's much harder (and
sometimes impossible) to get redress after the fact...

Title companies have their place, but they're not attorneys and they're
normally not _really_ in a position that your best interest is their
primary concern.

IMO, ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., ...

--

Norminn wrote:
clipped
Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least
expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?
....

Builder pay for your error? No way. It is part of the plan you should
have considered, and hindsight is always 20/20 )

Insufficient data to know whose error it is...but, if plan calls for as
stupid an arrangement as this appears to be, the "reasonable" doctrine
could come into play if it were to go so far as a suit (which, of
course, is not what I'm advocating either).

--

In article 0Wgdi.1893$M%4.940@trndny08,
"Marilyn & Bob" wrote:
3) Pat - We have a contract with the realtor, she is a buyer's agent
for us.

Others have commented on this. This seems to be a clear conflict of
interest as you say her broker boss is working for the seller. Don't know
about your state's laws, but I think you should consult your attorney and
the state Attorney General and the state realty board. There is something
wrong here.

This is not that uncommon, actually, although if this wasn't all
properly disclosed, then there may have been a violation of laws or
ethical standards.

Consider, for example, if you are a buyer, and you go to a major real
estate company, such as Century 21, or RE/Max, and retain one of their
agents as your buyer's agent.

There will be many houses listed through other agents at that office,
and those agents and your agent will be under the same boss at the
office. Blammo--conflict!

--
--Tim Smith

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:39:13 -0700, kris3432 wrote:

Hello everyone. I thought I would stop here and ask everyone's advise
about a problem that we have ran into on the house we are having
built.

We have been building the house long distance and just moved to the
area this week. We are supposed to close on the 25th.

We have ran into a problem with the fridge opening in the kitchen.
The height and width seem fine, but there is a drawer and door in the
cabinet corner that will open onto the fridge. The problem is that if
you allow space for the drawer to open the depth of the fridge can not
be any larger than 27 inches. A standard fridge is at a minimum of 34
inches, not including the door handle. We spent the evening going from
store to store measuring and pricing cabinet depth fridges, and it
looks like the ones that may work are about twice the price of regular
fridges (about $1900 versus $1000 for the regular fridge). And it is
questionable if the counter depth fridge will even work since they
measure about 29 inches with handles. (we did find a fridge that
measured under the well under the 27 depth but it was $2800)

We had our realtor meet us at the house today and she said that she
didn't think it was a problem. She didn't think it would be a big
deal to put a regular sized fridge there and just not use the door and/
or drawer.

I really think this is unacceptable. We have asked the the realtor
and builder since the beginning what size fridge we should buy and
they have told us repeatively that a standard size fridge would work.
We never planned on spending so much for a fridge.

A picture of our kitchen from a couple of weeks ago can be found here
(if is finished now): http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s...7-4797_IMG.jpg

Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least
expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?

Thanks,
Kris

If you let this slide, it will cost you more now (for a frig) and
again later when you sell the house.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

Norminn -

Can you please explain to me how exactly the cabinet issue is MY
error. I was told from the beginning that it would fit a standard size
fridge. And, now when I go to buy a fridge and measure I discover
that it lacks 7 inches of clearance.

I am not exactly sure whose fault it is, but I am pretty sure that I
do not hold all or even most of the blame.

Kris

On Jun 17, 8:14?pm, Norminn wrote:
clipped

Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least
expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?

Thanks,
Kris

Builder pay for your error? No way. It is part of the plan you should
have considered, and hindsight is always 20/20 )

Hubby and I were looking at cabinet depth fridge, but they were too high
for our kitchen (unless we raise a wall cab.)...prices weren't that
different.

Can't tell by the photo what is in the corner to left of frigge...if not
too late, can all cabinets be moved forward from the back wall to allow
for deeper fridge? If the kitchen work has progressed too far, then it
would cost more, probably, to move cabs. than to pay more for fridge.

We have a drawer limited by the fridge, but I just keep small stuff in
it that doesn't require it be opened all the way. Price and size of
your kitchen appliances should have been planned for from the git-go.
Enjoy your new house .. it's pretty.

kris3432 wrote:
Norminn -

Can you please explain to me how exactly the cabinet issue is MY
error. I was told from the beginning that it would fit a standard size
fridge. And, now when I go to buy a fridge and measure I discover
that it lacks 7 inches of clearance.

I am not exactly sure whose fault it is, but I am pretty sure that I
do not hold all or even most of the blame.

It's an opinion, and not well-formed one. Relies on the assumption
you had plans to review/approve that show that what is installed is the
actual layout on those plans. There's insufficient data to available to
asses blame/fault.

I suspect the answer given by the builder was entirely accurate as far
sas it went -- a standard width fridge will fit the opening -- as I
mentioned earlier, it would be quite surprising if this is a
multiple-house development as it appears it must be that the builder
actually took sufficient time himself to address the question in more
detail than to confirm it's a 34 or 36 or whatever it is wide opening
and responding "sure"...

--

On Jun 17, 3:12 pm, kris3432 wrote:
The problem that I am having with my realtor is that I have been told
that I can't contact the builder directly, but have to go through her
with any problems. The problem with that is that when I have a
problem and tell her about it, she acts like it isn't a big deal. Then
I have someone contacting the builder who doesn't seem to agree that
there is a problem. I would prefer to deal directly with the builder.
I feel like the realtor shouldn't have to go to the builder with every
little problem, that I should be able to discuss things with him. Oh,
and we do have a signed contract with her... she is a buyer's agent.
The problem we are running into is the her boss and broker, is the
seller's agent... and he basically makes her handle both sides.

We didn't have much of a choice but to build the house long distance,
we are military and did not really have the budget to live in a rental
while waiting for something to be completed. We drove down here a
couple of times to deal with problems directly, but we were told by
the realtor that she handles long distance builds all the time and she
would go buy the building site and take pictures and make sure
everything was on track. But, due to some vacations she went on and
the seller's agent went on it put a lag time between addressing my
issues. The plans to the house were shown to us by the realtor and I
am not entirely sure whose plans they were. I believe they were from
another local builder, that our builder could have got the plans for,
but instead he just redrew the plans himself. When we finally
received a copy of "his" plans we found several "issues," but he had
all ready poured the foundation before we received them. So, it
resulted in a few of our wants getting left out... and we just lived
with it.

I will never build another house with this arrangement. In the future
I will want to deal directly with either the builder or someone in his
office... not a realtor that they go through.

The plans that we received are just an overhead plan, that does not
outline what kind of cabinet goes where, all we see is countertop...
and no exact measurements. From what I can tell the counter placement
is with an inch or two of being correct... but without exact
measurements it is hard. Hindsight is 20/20 and I know what I should
request from the next builder.

I think we are going to go ahead and order a counter depth
refrigerator at our cost and hope that it will work. We hope that the
builder will be willing to change over the front of the cabinet to a
single door design and get rid of the problem drawer if it is an
issue.

This is the first house we owned, and I had no idea what to expect. I
guess I just figured that the builder knew what he was doing and when
he said that the spot would hold a regular-sized fridge that he knew
what he was talking about.

I think counter-depth fridges are becoming pretty standard now and we
shouldn't have a problem replacing it in the future. I just wish it
didn't cost double for a smaller fridge... but that is a entirely
seperate complaint.

A couple responses to your direct comments:

1) Many of you have suggested just not using the drawer.... my
personal opinion is that this is a NEW house.... and it would look
pretty ridiculous to have a drawer blocked by the fridge.

2) dpb - As for not crying until I have something to cry about... I
was posting her to get some opinions on how I should handle the
problem.. not complaining about the problem... I do not want to go
off on the builder/realtor if the majority of people I discuss this
with says it is not their problem/fault...

3) Pat - We have a contract with the realtor, she is a buyer's agent
for us.

4) Marilyn and Bob - not sure how if a narrower cabinet would fix the
issue...

5) Rudy - the enitre "blind" corner cabinet is accessible... just very
hard to get to

6) AEM - I wish a lazy susan cabinet would fit there... unfortunately
it requires another 10 inches... then the spot will be too narrow for
a standard fridge

7) Homer - I am entirely confused by your response... Yes we did
build it long distance... but at the same time I believe the builder
doesn't get a license to mess up on things because I am not here to
catch them. I am not mad at the realtor for not catching the
problem... because it was not incredibly obvious until you measured
it. But, I did ask about the fridge opening multiple times and was
told that it would fit a standard fridge.

8) JimR - We did budget more money for the house than originally
planned... but I believe the fridge issue is something that should
have been caught by the builder or the cabinet designer. The builder
did not want to get the original plans and insisted on creating them
himself... so I am not quite sure where he got the kitchen cabinet
layout from. I do agree with you that a cabinet-depth fridge would be
the best solution even if he will fix the cabinets for us.
Unfortunately there is not enough room in the spot for a lazy susan.

9) dadOH - not sure where you got the idea that I think my realtor is
my construction foreman... Unfortunately I am required to go throuh
her when I find a problem.

Thanks for all the replies. I think we know how to address the
situation with the builder/realtor tomorrow.

Kris

Okay, so you have a disclosed dual agency. That's legal here, as long
as it is disclosed. But since the broker/boss is the one with the
contract, the broker/boss the the dual agent.

As an agent, your sales agent cannot tell you that you cannot contact
the seller. I mean, what's she going to do, cancel the sale? So look
them up in the phone book and call. In all likelyhood, they will fix
the problem.

If they don't, check your specs. If the cabinet isn't to specs, call
you agent and tell him/her to fix it and to stop dicking around. If
they don't, then tell them to refund your deposit and cancel the
sale. That will make them gulp hard and fix it. They know that they
can get screwed if you delay the closing for a while, so they want it
to go quickly. This isn't anything that is too big, so it'll get
fixed. The agent will, of course, tell you that you can't do that,
yadda, yadda, yadda and is sort of correct. But at that point you
acknowlege that, tell the agent that he/she is not propertly
representing you and fire the agent. They will want a fee but you
tell them that if they give you any sh*t that you'll take them to the
licensing board and you can agrue it there as you claim imcompetance,
etc. The worst that can happen is that they sue you, but that too is
a sticky issue in the world of agency -- especially when you are
stating that they are not adequately representing you.

I don't know about your state, but no agent/broker want to go to court
or to a licencing body when dual agency is involved. NYS has
mandatory disclosures -- all they have to do is miss one thing and
they are in trouble.

You also need to breath deep and realize that this isn't emotional.
It's just a real estate transaction. If it doesn't go the way you
want, then you walk. It migh cost you something but it's better to
get what you want. But again, I'd just call the builder.

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:14:04 GMT, Norminn
wrote:


Builder pay for your error? No way. It is part of the plan you should
have considered, and hindsight is always 20/20 )

That's not true. I know folks who even their hindsight isn't 20/20.



(I don't know the details of this case.)

On Jun 17, 6:05 am, mm wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 20:18:10 -0700, wrote:
On Jun 16, 10:14 pm, wrote:
I also feel your pain. We just moved into a mobile home from a house
and did not realize that the fridge would not fit. I ended up cutting
a wall in half in order to make it fit. Sometimes all you need is a
bigger hammer!

I'd say it's unacceptable and you have a very legitimate beef with the
builder. I would contact him immediately. It's not rocket science
to lay out a kitchen without a major malfunction like this. If they
are this stupid, I'd be very concerned about what else they may have
screwed up that you don't know about. I'd make a trip over there and
do a careful inspection to see what else may be wrong.

And I don't think having to use a refrigerator with less depth and
less room is the answer. And who is this real estate agent working
for? If you hired her as a buyer's agent and she told you this is
OK, I'd ask her what kind of an idiot does she take you for?. If

OH yeah, when the time comes sue both of them. Otherwise, she'll say
it's his fault and he'll say it's her fault at the separate trials.
By having on ly one trial, they can do this but the judge decides.

I'm not sure in every state you can sue both in small claims court.

Remind them of how much time they will have to spend in court, and
they will lose, and get the builder to just fix it now.

she's the agent for the builder, then it makes more sense, but it's

If she is the builder's agent, I think she is as liable as the
builder.

still amazingly stupid. You would think she would just say, OK, I
see your point and I'll take it up with the builder. In any case, I'd
do anything I could to minimize having her involved in this or
anything else.

Is this the same person who was having trouble with his agent out of
town a month or two ago?

I'm not being overy cynical but you (the OP) is only ASSUMING that the
cabinets are in wrong. It could also be that the cabinets are as
approved and that the room has been made smaller by misplacement of
walls OR (and this is scary) that the house is the wrong size and
everything got measured from the outside walls.

While both of these scenarios are unlikely, I thing the OP can't go
any farther without reviewing the plans and getting some accurate
measurements.

I think we are going to go ahead and order a counter depth
refrigerator at our cost and hope that it will work.

Careful, counter depth fridges are sometimes WIDER than standard ones (our
SubZero was) needing not only a wider space to fit but also a wider DOOR
SWING. Make sure you dont trade one problem for another. Measure the actual
fridge you re considering...dont go by numbers on some diagram

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:12:23 -0000, kris3432 wrote:

[snip]

From the photo you put up on the net, I would have concerns about
the builder's competency: there are tools sitting on a finished
surface, an unprotected kitchen countertop -- both the tools and the
lack of protection are unprofessional and sloppy. Similarly I note
the cabinets are going in after the floor tile has been set == again,
work is being performed over a finished surface.

Ken

The contractor has it right -- floor tile goes in first, then the cabinets.
Floor tile should be under the cabinets and the appliances, for several very
good reasons --

JimR wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:12:23 -0000, kris3432 wrote:

[snip]

From the photo you put up on the net, I would have concerns about
the builder's competency: there are tools sitting on a finished
surface, an unprotected kitchen countertop -- both the tools and the
lack of protection are unprofessional and sloppy. Similarly I note
the cabinets are going in after the floor tile has been set == again,
work is being performed over a finished surface.

Ken

The contractor has it right -- floor tile goes in first, then the cabinets.
Floor tile should be under the cabinets and the appliances, for several very
good reasons --

And the tools on the countertop is a tempest in a teapot, so to speak.
Undoubtedly he's one who would tell Sam Maloof to not set his plane down
on the bench w/o laying it on its side...

--

Hi,

Ouch!

We had a house built and also had the same problem. No magic solution
I am afraid. In the end we went for a Counter Dept fridge at about $US
3,000 - ish. It was a while back.

Even though we had an architech design the house. The only way I think
to effectively have a "Standard" fridge is to have a closet, or some
nich in an adjoining room that you can push the fridge into. Most
cabinets are 24 inch in dept. Most counter dept fridges are 27 inches.
The extra 3 inches is O.K. What you see is just the doors coming out,
the body is flush. You need to have the doors sticking a bit out
anyway because otherwise you would need a gap on each side of the
fridge to allow for door swing clearance. Difficult to explain, but
the corners of the doors when used will push out sideways maybe 1/2 to
and inch when you open them.

There are fridges that are 100% flush. However even they "cheat" in
that they are more than the standard 24 inches. So you effectively
waste 3 inches of space behind the cabinets. See Sub Zero.

Best, Mike.


On Jun 16, 8:39 pm, kris3432 wrote:
Hello everyone. I thought I would stop here and ask everyone's advise
about a problem that we have ran into on the house we are having
built.

We have been building the house long distance and just moved to the
area this week. We are supposed to close on the 25th.

We have ran into a problem with the fridge opening in the kitchen.
The height and width seem fine, but there is a drawer and door in the
cabinet corner that will open onto the fridge. The problem is that if
you allow space for the drawer to open the depth of the fridge can not
be any larger than 27 inches. A standard fridge is at a minimum of 34
inches, not including the door handle. We spent the evening going from
store to store measuring and pricing cabinet depth fridges, and it
looks like the ones that may work are about twice the price of regular
fridges (about $1900 versus $1000 for the regular fridge). And it is
questionable if the counter depth fridge will even work since they
measure about 29 inches with handles. (we did find a fridge that
measured under the well under the 27 depth but it was $2800)

We had our realtor meet us at the house today and she said that she
didn't think it was a problem. She didn't think it would be a big
deal to put a regular sized fridge there and just not use the door and/
or drawer.

I really think this is unacceptable. We have asked the the realtor
and builder since the beginning what size fridge we should buy and
they have told us repeatively that a standard size fridge would work.
We never planned on spending so much for a fridge.

A picture of our kitchen from a couple of weeks ago can be found here
(if is finished now):http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s...June4/?action=...

Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least
expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?

Thanks,
Kris

In article .com,
kris3432 wrote:

The problem that I am having with my realtor is that I have been told
that I can't contact the builder directly, but have to go through her
with any problems. The problem with that is that when I have a
problem and tell her about it, she acts like it isn't a big deal. Then
I have someone contacting the builder who doesn't seem to agree that
there is a problem. I would prefer to deal directly with the builder.
I feel like the realtor shouldn't have to go to the builder with every
little problem, that I should be able to discuss things with him. Oh,
and we do have a signed contract with her... she is a buyer's agent.

Kris, I feel your pain, and sorry that your first home buying experience
hasn't been golden.

According to Bruce Williams (and I believe him): Unfortunately, there is
no such thing as a "buyer's agent." Realtors - all of them - are paid by
and work for the seller. Lawyers hired by the buyer work for the buyer.
Nobody else gives a rat's ass about the buyer's well being. You don't
want to get screwed when you buy a house, you pay for a lawyer to
protect your interests. Always, absolutely, unconditionally, no hemming
and hawing around. Not many people do it, and that's why so many people
get burned.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:05:15 -0700, Tim Smith
wrote:

In article , dpb wrote:
I presume that you have an attorney representing you for the closing. I

That's a regional thing, so depends on where they are. In many parts of
the country, an attorney is usually not used for closing.

That's a personal mistake thing, not necessarily regional...biggest
investment most people make in their lives and they wing it...to save a
few hundred bucks, maybe.

Who said anything about winging it? The title company in most of the
western US handles closing. There would be no point in bringing a
lawyer. Here's how it works.

The title company receives all the paperwork from the mortgage company,
and arranges for the seller to come in and sign all the documents the
seller needs to sign.

When this is done, the title company notifies the buyer, and tells the
buyer the size of the cashiers check he needs to bring (or the amount of
money the buyer needs to wire to the title company, if he prefers that
option), and makes an appointment for the buyer to come in.

The buyer comes in, and signs all the relevant documents and hands in
the check.

The title company goes and files the deed for the buyer (and for most of
us, the other document that gives the lender their interest in the
property), and then notifies the real estate agent the buyer is dealing
with. The buyer can then go pick up the keys from the agent.

(I say "title company" above, but I suppose technically it is the escrow
company for much of it, but they are usually the same company).

Not every state has escrow.

I've only bought one house, but I don't see how one can count on the
title company to represent the buyer's interest, except the one
interest that affects the title company, which is establishing good
title.

I don't see how or why they would concern themselves with cabinets and
refrigerators, which have no effect on whether the house is sold or
not.

The title company sends a lawyer or whatever to protect its own
interests. He usually takes charge because there is no one there with
more training and experience. Even if there is a seller or buyer's
lawyer there, I would guess the title company's lawyer takes charge
because he is comparitively neutral. The buyer doesn't want a neutral
lawyer. He wants one on his side.

That doesn 't necessarily mean -- I don't know -- if he needs to have
his lawyer there. If he can't get the kitchen the way it should be,
he should as someone said, discuss this with a lawyer in advance. I
would think a lawyer near the house. He can fax or email the relevant
papers, adn do it on the phone. This can even be cheaper maybe
conceivably because there is less likely to be time spent
chitchatting, which my mother was wont to do.

The lawyer probably will want to come to the closing, I think, because
it earns him income, and because he will be honestly afraid something
bad will happen if he is not there, that will be harder to undo than
to avoid.

OTOH I hired a lawyer when I bought my house, and he was terrible,
even though I got him through a recommendation of someone I still
respect. He gave me a flat price, which I failed to ask enough
questions about, and after it was over, and I noticed I had no title
insurance, he told me his price didn't include title insurance and I
didn't need it. Even though it was a property subdivided only 4 years
earlier, and many of the lots were unusual shapes, and mine was one of
the most unusual. In fact the subdivision as a whole had had a title
dispute with the next subdivisioin, and it turned out we or they had
built on the other's property. A deal was worked out where we kept
the property our developer had wrongly built on, and we gave them some
of our vacant land. We're so packed, I'm surprised we could find
vacant land next to their land to give them. OTOH, maybe that's a
reason we're so packed. I have no idea how much land was invovled.

The one thing that was dubious at my settlement was whehter we were
properly apportioning the oil in the oil tank or the electric bill or
something like that. And I noticed this before my lawyer did. I
wonder if I hadn't said anything if he would have noticed it at all.

ON a new house I guess that's not an issue, although maybe the builder
has to pay the electric bill until the house is acctuallly sold, and
maybe that can be 100 dollars or so?
I should have been suspicious when the lawyer had his office in a
lower income part of town. But he had a recommendation and his first
advice on the phone, on an easy but acute topic, sounded good, and was
good if the mortgage agent hadn't been a dirtball.

Here's a list of how closings are handled in each state:

http://www.owners.com/Tools/Library/ShowArticle/24.aspx

Note that the are sometimes significant variations within a state. Look
at California for example.

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 02:26:15 -0000, Pat
wrote:


You also need to breath deep and realize that this isn't emotional.
It's just a real estate transaction.

That's true, and he's moving agalin anyhow in what was it, 5 or 10
years. So no matter how bad it is, it's not forever.

Still, it's good to practice doing this right to be better able to
wage war, or peace as the case may be, the next time he buys a house.

With all the problems and confusion that there is here, among people
who have experience in these matters, many of whom have college
degrees and parents who owned their own homes etc. etc., just imagine
what it is like for someone who never had any legal or financial
experience, who has a job that pays well enough to buy a house, but
who's the first in his family to own his own home, etc. He must
really feel chewed up and spit out after one of these experiences.

On Jun 19, 5:40 am, mm wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 02:26:15 -0000, Pat

wrote:

You also need to breath deep and realize that this isn't emotional.
It's just a real estate transaction.

That's true, and he's moving agalin anyhow in what was it, 5 or 10
years. So no matter how bad it is, it's not forever.

Still, it's good to practice doing this right to be better able to
wage war, or peace as the case may be, the next time he buys a house.

With all the problems and confusion that there is here, among people
who have experience in these matters, many of whom have college
degrees and parents who owned their own homes etc. etc., just imagine
what it is like for someone who never had any legal or financial
experience, who has a job that pays well enough to buy a house, but
who's the first in his family to own his own home, etc. He must
really feel chewed up and spit out after one of these experiences.

Many not-for-profits throughout the country have homebuyer courses and
counseling to assist with just that. They are usually a simple google
search or going to hud.gov and looking for certified counselors.

kris3432 wrote:
Hello everyone. I thought I would stop here and ask everyone's advise
about a problem that we have ran into on the house we are having
built.

We have been building the house long distance and just moved to the
area this week. We are supposed to close on the 25th.

We have ran into a problem with the fridge opening in the kitchen.
The height and width seem fine, but there is a drawer and door in the
cabinet corner that will open onto the fridge. The problem is that if
you allow space for the drawer to open the depth of the fridge can not
be any larger than 27 inches. A standard fridge is at a minimum of 34
inches, not including the door handle. We spent the evening going from
store to store measuring and pricing cabinet depth fridges, and it
looks like the ones that may work are about twice the price of regular
fridges (about $1900 versus $1000 for the regular fridge). And it is
questionable if the counter depth fridge will even work since they
measure about 29 inches with handles. (we did find a fridge that
measured under the well under the 27 depth but it was $2800)

We had our realtor meet us at the house today and she said that she
didn't think it was a problem. She didn't think it would be a big
deal to put a regular sized fridge there and just not use the door and/
or drawer.

I really think this is unacceptable. We have asked the the realtor
and builder since the beginning what size fridge we should buy and
they have told us repeatively that a standard size fridge would work.
We never planned on spending so much for a fridge.

A picture of our kitchen from a couple of weeks ago can be found here
(if is finished now): http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s...7-4797_IMG.jpg

Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least
expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?

Thanks,
Kris

Hmmm,
That builder must be a nut. In my time I had 6 houses, a cabin built and
never had that problem. I don't remember hearing about it until now.
Didn't you go over the blue print B4 building started?
Sorry to hear that. Maybe kitchen has to be redone at least partially?

On or about Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:39:13 -0700 did kris3432
dribble thusly:

Hello everyone. I thought I would stop here and ask everyone's advise
about a problem that we have ran into on the house we are having
built.

[snip]
A picture of our kitchen from a couple of weeks ago can be found here
(if is finished now): http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s...7-4797_IMG.jpg

Am I being unreasonable wanting something done about this or at least
expecting the builder to pay part of the extra cost for the fridge?

That just strikes me as an incredibly stupid place to design in a
fridge.

Here's a quick and dirty take on how I'd do that kitchen, based on
what I can tell from the pictu

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/138...kitchenht1.jpg

The space for the fridge is replaced by a normal countertop with
cabinet underneath, and a full cabinet above.

The corner is replaced with a single unit that has a lazy susan
underneath. Maybe something similar on top, too.

The fridge then goes near the end of the wall, under a half cabinet up
top. Doing that, you can leave enough space for an especially large
fridge, but still put a smaller one in without there seeming to be a
huge gap between cabinets. I drew in a bottom-freezer french-door
fridge as an example.

I can't really say how reasonable it would be for you to demand a
change like that (or however you'd want to do it), since I don't know
how many opportunities you had to correct the design before it was
built. But I would definitely not be happy with the design in your
picture.
--
- Mike

Ignore the Python in me to send e-mail.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:34:14 -0400, Mike Ruskai
wrote:

That just strikes me as an incredibly stupid place to design in a
fridge.

Here's a quick and dirty take on how I'd do that kitchen, based on
what I can tell from the pictu

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/138...kitchenht1.jpg

Wouldn't she loose counter space at the sink with the fridge there (if
the sink is on that side of the kitchen)??

Also, seems like the living room is directly adjacent/behind and one
would hear the fridge running vs placed on the far wall ...


The space for the fridge is replaced by a normal countertop with
cabinet underneath, and a full cabinet above.

The corner is replaced with a single unit that has a lazy susan
underneath. Maybe something similar on top, too.

The fridge then goes near the end of the wall, under a half cabinet up
top. Doing that, you can leave enough space for an especially large
fridge, but still put a smaller one in without there seeming to be a
huge gap between cabinets. I drew in a bottom-freezer french-door
fridge as an example.

I can't really say how reasonable it would be for you to demand a
change like that (or however you'd want to do it), since I don't know
how many opportunities you had to correct the design before it was
built. But I would definitely not be happy with the design in your
picture.
--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:34:14 -0400, Mike Ruskai
wrote:

That just strikes me as an incredibly stupid place to design in a
fridge.

Here's a quick and dirty take on how I'd do that kitchen, based on
what I can tell from the pictu

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/138...kitchenht1.jpg

Wouldn't she loose counter space at the sink with the fridge there (if
the sink is on that side of the kitchen)??

Also, seems like the living room is directly adjacent/behind and one
would hear the fridge running vs placed on the far wall ...
....

"Ya' gotsta' pick your pize-un" grandpa was found of saying...

From the picture it seems to be a funny kitchen arrangement no matter
what. Better imo to have less counter space but functional than
non-functional drawers/cabinets and that big hole in the corner of the
original imo. It looks like it might be more convenient from the layout
there as well, or at least no less. The door opening in the middle
layout isn't real conducive for traffic around it.

Noise is a possible downside, certainly, but fridges don't run
continuously and at least some aren't terribly noisy...

OP will have to pick and choose options vs outlay, but Oren's plan looks
at least superficially like a sizable improvement to me...

Almost anything would be given the original, though...I agree there it
seems to be an absurd design if the picture OP posted was what really
was intended.

--

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:31:56 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:34:14 -0400, Mike Ruskai
wrote:

That just strikes me as an incredibly stupid place to design in a
fridge.

Here's a quick and dirty take on how I'd do that kitchen, based on
what I can tell from the pictu

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/138...kitchenht1.jpg

Wouldn't she loose counter space at the sink with the fridge there (if
the sink is on that side of the kitchen)??

Also, seems like the living room is directly adjacent/behind and one
would hear the fridge running vs placed on the far wall ...
...

"Ya' gotsta' pick your pize-un" grandpa was found of saying...

From the picture it seems to be a funny kitchen arrangement no matter
what. Better imo to have less counter space but functional than
non-functional drawers/cabinets and that big hole in the corner of the
original imo. It looks like it might be more convenient from the layout
there as well, or at least no less. The door opening in the middle
layout isn't real conducive for traffic around it.

My thought of NOT moving the fridge is that it would interfere with
the portion of the cabinet, most likely intended for a breakfast bar
(angled in pic - where the step stool sits now will have a couple of
"bar stools") Under this cabinet front will be the (my guess) DW.

I like plenty counter space around the sink and stove - on both sides.


Noise is a possible downside, certainly, but fridges don't run
continuously and at least some aren't terribly noisy...

OP will have to pick and choose options vs outlay, but Oren's plan looks
at least superficially like a sizable improvement to me...

Mike Ruska plan

I like the thought


Almost anything would be given the original, though...I agree there it
seems to be an absurd design if the picture OP posted was what really
was intended.

This kitchen reminds me of our area for a median priced home.

--
Oren

...through the use of electrical or duct tape, achieve the configuration in the photo..

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:31:56 -0500, dpb wrote:
....

OP will have to pick and choose options vs outlay, but Oren's plan ...

Mike Ruska plan
....

oops! mea culpa, got eyes crossed on who wrote what, sorry Mike!

--

kris3432 wrote:
Norminn -

Can you please explain to me how exactly the cabinet issue is MY
error. I was told from the beginning that it would fit a standard size
fridge. And, now when I go to buy a fridge and measure I discover
that it lacks 7 inches of clearance.

I am not exactly sure whose fault it is, but I am pretty sure that I
do not hold all or even most of the blame.

Kris

The issue is that a "standard size" fridge should fit the space. I have
no idea what a "standard size" fridge is - mine is 31.5" deep from wall
tofront of fridge, not including the handles. You said you kept asking
what size fridge you should buy.......sounds like a cop-out to me. You
must have had drawings before you signed a contract, I hope. The size
of appliances, along with cost, features and arrangement are one of the
very most basic and costly parts of the plan. First-time home buyers
are bound to make mistakes or overlook things that they think of too
late. It may be possible to get a fridge - not side-by-side - that will
allow the cab. door and drawer to open if the fridge door is open.
Might also be able to change the cabinet door to open from left side
(hinge on right) to get into that.